NIR Camo is Useless
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2023
- In times of thermal devices it seems like the near infrared camouflage is useless. At least dozens of keyboard operators try to tell me this.
I assume they use the word "useless" as a exaggeration. But hey, let's talk about that topic.
With our human eyes we are only able to see a narrow area of the electromagnetical spectrum. There is also the ultraviolett as well as the infrared.
Night vision devices are able to see the visible light as well as the near infrared. So as long as opposing forces with night vision are looking for you, NIR camouflage can safe your life.
But sure, if someone is looking for you with a thermal device, the NIR camouflage will not help.
But the camouflage colors of your uniform wont help either. But have you ever hears someone telling you, that camouflage uniforms are useless? ;-P
Image source for the electromagnetical spectrum:
www.edmundoptics.de/knowledge...
Berghaus Product Catalogue:
lvequipment.nl/wp-content/plu...
The shown night vision device is from Act in Black:
ripperkon.de/en/act-in-black-...
actinblack.com/
Article about improving NIR camouflage performance with spray paint:
ripperkon.de/en/using-spray-p... - Навчання та стиль
Important: wash your stuff with detergents not containing colour brighteners. Brighteners will make your clothes glow in nightvision
Don’t wash your clothes to become the ultimate warrior
@@ThePhantomGodofNight to be able to smell you, they will already be too close
Unironically, no you aren't supposed to wash your gear.
If it really needs be cleaned, just rinse in water.
I dropped one of my PVS14s in favor of using one PVS14, and an AGM Taipan. It's a bit awkward if you're accustomed to dual tubes, but once you acclimate to the square image of the thermal over one of your eyes, it's honestly much more effective.
I'm a right handed shooter, so my thermal sits over my left eye, running a top dot to passive aim with my right.
Going into an exercise experimenting with a 14 on the left eye and a thermal monocular on the right eye. The thermal is clip-on compatible, so it can be quickly mounted and retain a similar sight picture.
Time will tell if loosing the ability to passive-aim through the 14 is worth the setup. I did not go with a dual dovetail bridge to swap things around easily.
@@AnonEMus-cp2mn you can still passive aim with a top dot, just tilt inboard and aim through your left eye.
Only works in close quarters unless you zero the dot specifically for left eye shooting in a right handed stance.
I personally prefer a ~65 yd zero (75 in 20" and 55 in 10.5" barrels)
Makes the dot more useful at range during daytime shooting.
@bLackstar rich? Nah. I just save my money and do side hustles for the stuff I want.
Which Taipan do you use? I had discounted them in favor of the FLIR due to form factor, I assumed they were purely observation monocles at that price point. Are they all dual-bridge compatible?
@@SomeNavySEALs if you'll give me about ten minutes, I'll get you the model number of the one I use.
They use tripod mount, I believe the only one that doesn't have a tripod mount is their cheapest monocular ($~300-400 iirc)
I wouldn't be surprised if the military is looking into training AI to identify humans across the visible and non visible spectrums. A vehicle could probably mount the necessary equipment to do this. Camouflage is certainly becoming a more complex topic, and it seems (for now) that a high tech professional military's detection ability is outpacing concealment. Thanks for the great video, I subscribed!
Ever wondered why google asked you in which picture is the motorcylce?
Humans are hunters by evolution, the pattern recognition of humans is unmatched.
At the end of the day on thermals and IR you go for contrast, for everything more complex you need the human to indentify a target.
They make armed robots with ai targeting now and they can’t identify enemy over friendly
There’s a funny story about this marines tricked it by doing flips and hiding in a box moving towards it.
@@thatoneguy5007 The old Metal Gear I read about that I fw those guys whoever they are thats funny
I think the reality of modern war is technology forces strategy to constantly be in favor of a VERY strong defense, and makes offensive tactics practically suicidal. Just as it was in WW1 with the machine gun as it is now with advanced optics, radar, missiles and artillery you're better off NOT going on the offensive and instead just using the tools listed above to make your defensive position unassailable unless the other side is ok with taking on mass causalities every time they attempt a blitz.
Until you leave the wire.
homie doesn't understand how combined arms maneuver warfare works and it shows.
I think the opposite based upon Warfare we have been waging for years and observing Ukraine. Ambush, clandestine strikes, direct action strikes hard and fast and generally being on the offensive is allways better than defence. You lose the advantages when you're defending. You gain the advantage when you are the attacker
Yeah, that's a pretty ignorant statement. The modern battlefield is more complicated, but the tools of today enable offensive operations like never before. I'd argue that a true peer vs peer war between the US and China would end up being much more maneuver based than many people think. The only way to defeat many of the systems such as smart artillery, drones, and missiles is to simply not be where they are going to strike, or to quickly shoot them down. Movement is essential to that. It is my belief that battles of the future will be much quicker, and far more violent than those of the past, with many more moving parts and domains of operation to them
@GDuff123 as a student of combined arms, I can tell you that we don't all agree that we might as well do nothing in the face of technology. The tech of today makes defenses stronger, but it also makes offense much more potent. I don't care how fortified of a position you have, I can destroy it. If I have good intel that I gained using drones, mixed with naval, drone, or conventional smart bunker busting artillery, it is comically easy to fuck up defenders. Throw some tanks into the mix, as is standard for almost all nato combined arms forces, and offenses are still much more potent then you're giving them credit for.
As to plate cerriers and pouches invisibility in night vision, from our experience in Ukraine, just get a can of deep matt paint (olive, coyote or tan) and spray all your gear. Works great. Cause you'd be surprised, but often even high cost gear and clothes (e.g. 5.11) are highly visible in infrared spectrum devices.
Thx for the tip.
I also made good experience with EC paint. Stand-alone it is almost too dark. But on shiny nylon gear it helps to create a pattern.
Do you recommend a specific brand of paint?
@@ripperkon I use Bosny camo car paint. It dries really fast and is deep matt
5.11 is considered high cost?
@@drnage4495 yep, compared to other Ukrainian brands and army issue gear it is about twice as expensive
Tell us about zelensky ethnically cleansing Russian parts of ukraine then blaming Russia. Like how zelensky attacked donbas and donetsk with missiles then pretended it was "the Russians"
I’ve looked into thermal camo and there is few options, but when available it’s a sheet for $400
Relv camo
Great video. So many things to consider when out on a patrol or just keeping a low profile when outdoors. And thank you for the English version of these videos.
Anyone that says nir camo is useless is just wrong. Part of this story is my fault BUT I loaded up with cheap gear that I believed was just as good as it held up while going out and touching grass. I finally got my hands on some night vision and realized my gear glows like a Christmas tree under IR. I'd have stuck out like a signal flair out in the woods at night.
You might want to wash it a few times in detergent which doesn't have "whiter than white" optical brighteners, because that will make even the otherwise best materials seem to glow in IR.
Is this true as soon as you have some distance with the observer ? Watch Dirty Civilian's latest video on signature reduction, they do the test and at distance, you really can't see the difference between NIR treated and not.
You can increase nir resistance, by rubbing dirt on it.
Appreciate the video, most of my kit has been focused around getting legit Multicam NIR fabrics, especially any outward visible pouches, plate carrier, or uniforms. In SHTF situation, our boys here will be using thermal and nods we'll need every advantage we can get. Inner pouches, admin stuff that is hidden away can be coyote or grey.
NIR considerations for your PPE directly on your person [plate carrier, helmet cover, uniform, layer whatever, etc]
thermal camoflauge considerations for your stationary positions/entrenchments. camo netting, spectralflage blanket, etc.
disguising thermal while on-the-move is very difficult, but your NIR is very possible to do while moving and still matters because of rudimentary technologies like hunting cameras and whoever else has NVG capabilities other than yourself. definitely shouldn't be slept on.
Fighting against a first world peer adversary with thermal would be practically impossible to go undetected. But as a civilian I think if you have a single pvs14 and a red dot on your rifle you will have a huge advantage over 99% of the population in a wrol situation. If you had a thermal you'd be able to compete with corrupt local police forces.
Even training to defeat a whole other army who also has thermal goggles and night vision sounds depressingly difficult lol
ya know, i think the next advancement in camo should be optical illusions and using perspective to look like a natural object
This
Thanks 🙂 Concamo is in DE very nice pattern, i use UK MTP + DPM, and cz.95 and BW camo and OCP US camo.
I try to get as much Marpat as I can cuz the surplus stuff still has the night vision and thermal coating on it but it's all how you wash your clothes cuz optical brighteners will ruin your camouflage
The NIR coat doesn't help camouflage, the whole point of the coat is to prevent the existing pigments from glowing bright. If the clothes are made with good quality fabric the NIR treatment is not needed in the first place as the pigments wont be reflective.
Marpat is worth having as it is a nice pattern though. However, in terms of a militia application the key is uniformity than what your actual camo is. This is prevent fratricide. Dark jeans and a green shirt is more effective than people give credit to, and most people already have that in their closet.
@@DaveSmith-cp5kj While that's true, I'd posit that something like surplus Woodland gear makes more sense. It's also very available, very effective in many environments, and isn't commonly issued by most military forces.
@@KeterMalkuth I'm personally of the opinion that camo patterns make you easier to spot. In force on force I've often spotted people in camo patterns because I recognize the pattern, but flat colors I apparently miss. Like when we drape camo net over ourselves, it is crazy hard to spot even though it is a flat color.
I don't have hard data to support this though. Might also be moot as everyone is running a thermal device with the ENVG trickling down to regulars. These your thermal signature is a bigger target indicator than anything else as it is the first.
I've also sewn velcro armbands and played with randos in airsoft and it really does make a huge difference in being able to identify friendlies even without camo uniformity. I put a thermal sticker on each so I can still identify peeps while using thermal and I believe this eventually will be a standardized concept. Russians have been using this technique ever since their Georgian campaign.
@@DaveSmith-cp5kj The biggest factor with camouflage- outside of movement of course- is silhouette, I'd say. People can ignore some downright dumb obvious things, as long as they are odd in a way they don't find threatening. A human form is, of course, very distinctive and we recognize it easier than just about anything else. Hence what I think is the biggest consideration with camouflage, not how well you're able to blend into the environment, but how well you're able to disturb your silhouette enough that the eye isn't drawn to you.
The armband point is definitely relevant though. Multicam has become the de-facto uniform of choice for special operations across the world. I believe even Russian SOF uses it in some capacity. Given that, if we enter a conflict where dudes in multicam are shooting at dudes in multicam, alternative means of IFF will become vital.
Hey Kon 🤙 Wieder ein TOP Video von dir 👌 Weiter so 💪😀
Great overview about NIR clothing topic!
Do the older, filmed gen3 green phosphor tubes see in NIR ? Thanks
I absolutely love your videos. Thank you for posting things like this so us other people can understand what we may need to get instead! I’ve been trying to build a kit and this helps so much!
Great video very informative and thanks for sharing!
Hey Kon, could you try something in NIR?
Take rough linen in brown and in olive, put boiled lineseed oil on half of each, and then half of that mix in the chalk.
I really want to know if oilcloth can be made NIR compliant.
Oils shine so I get the inclination would be to taint a silicone impregnation with a hard matte partical. As others have said, you may as well dust your kit with NiR spray paints. Problem may be you have to deal with scents..
But do they shine in NIR is the big question@@thespartenkid
How much does it matter when at night and at a distance of more than a few meters? Can we get some of that footage?
i’ve heard to use ekspot soaps does anyone know if that actually works?
Is the colour ranger green generally IRR? Or does it come down to the material or coating?
Material and coat
Optical Engineer here (I currently work for Nikon) - Want to know what immediately negates any effort toward 'near infrared camouflage'? Movement of ANY kind. Want to know what negates any effort toward thermal image camouflage? Movement of ANY kind... Long story short, if your enemy has access to NVG's or Thermal Vision equipment, you're effectively fucked... However, if it's aerial thermal you're seeking to evade, then a golf umbrella with a 3x3m camo net draped over it like a tablecloth to sit under does wonders...
The closet I think people normal people get to using this type of nir camo is at overnight airsoft games, 24 - 48 hour events, mostly in EU & America
Definitely 🤓
Except when China invades!😳
Hast du das Video auch auf deutsch gedreht?
What about hiding from thermal scopes?
I know UF PRO in Germany has supposedly invented a camo complete suit to hide from thermal & nightvision! “BUT”, It’s only available to military units and not to vets yet!!! Are there any companies that sell this to the general market? I’d like to see you get some uniforms from UF PRO to test and do another episode on UA-cam!
My favorite camo currently is the Kryptek series (Mandrake, & Highlander)!
Thanks so much I really enjoy your channel and have learned some things I didn’t know before!
ua-cam.com/video/dvT2Tptuqfw/v-deo.html this is the camo I was talking about!
@@djmakerzmark This suit even somehow makes exposed skin not glow in thermal scopes, so some scepticism might be in order...
you see the pattern repeat so obviously for the flectarn during the NIR shot
Yeah, that’s the problem with the rapport in rotational prints. At least on larger surfaces it can get obvious like there.
very nice video and explanation
Great video!
It would be cool if you did this for snow and sandZ
Dual use of back pack covers from rain and reduce signature,cool. Yeah technology is pretty advance
Very helpful
so TLDW is: NIR for the City, Untreated for the Woods.
exelent, thanks from Brasil
Thank you 😊
the federal agents look of disbelief as he is over taken by a hoard of starved dogs and I’m witnessing it all with my IR goggles
“Hah, his vest wasn’t even NIR”
Excellent vid
Good video
Civilian "camo" with nylon and polyester shine with FLIR, IR, and increase body heat signatures.
FYI it is not great for your tube to be on during bright sunlight even with the daycap on, gen3 devices multiply light so much that even that little pinhole lets in enough light to cause the device to autogain/autobrightness control. It's okay to turn it on with the daycap to test for functionality but you only want to do it for small amounts of time and not in direct sunlight. As for your testing this is not a proper way to test NIR material, there is 1000s of times more light bouncing through the scene then there would be at night(too much light washes out results). The proper way to test NIR is at night from a distance with a IR illuminator.
Amazing
Wear IR camo and only operate in areas that are 98.6 degrees F/ 37 degrees C and you're all set
You really like Ranger Green.
surely the answer is having nods and a thermal in your pack or on the rail. The best defence in a fight is throwing infra red lamps facing the enemy so you can see them like daylight and they cant see you in the shade. light is a weapon of war so you can't rely on your eyes all the time
Using a chainsaw at night Using thermal vision just sounds dangerous to me. Is it common?
Your video making very good!!! like you ❤ come from Hong Kong fans
crucial together with VIS and SWIR
Yeah, totally true.
You're supposed to put the space blanket under your poncho
The poncho will heat up differently than the nature.
good info
clickbait title
the only way to escape all this problems, you have to avoid wars! ir is nice, but a thermal camera is now near as cheap as nightvisiongoogles...and there is no way, to hide from it! greetings... ragnar
Yes indeed , more content, always fun and educational for civi population, keep it up,
Weapons camouflage and real state.
Slow n Smooth Smooth is Fast
Cheers
I doi like clothing you have on you. Is ther any chance that you can give some links or informations about your kit?
The other way to counter infrared is by shining infrared light at the infrared, this blinds the infrared, Infrared lights are very expensive.
why not film at night if you're talking about IR?
You would see a lot less.
Give me 10 well trained riflemen in plain old fashioned ODs and no night vision kit vs 10 of your best with all the high tech gear you can afford.
Clanking around in the bush like a herd of elephants, and smelling of aftershave and cooked meals, or fidgetting about in their firepits, not paying attention, not taking notes.
On a still and moonless night, they dissappear one by one, never to be seen again
🙂
Introducing: tin foil hat, now comes with a suit! ;)
jetzt sieht er aus wie Jesus. Wow
UCP is the top NIR camo and saying NIR camo isn’t effective is silly
wisible >D
It's called Night Vision. Night! And you reviewed the stuff at day light?????
It's funny how often "NIR performance is useless!" Morphs into "you don't need that feature" when questioned. It's just more gate keeping.
psy op by the government to keep you under armed and under equiped with the latest tech so they maintain an advantage.
Great advice from someone who has never put his life in danger for others. Bravo, you're a real man.
steinkauz olive? little owl? lol
Steingrau Oliv ;)
German accent gives +10 credibility.
lul, Danke!
then do the test using using tan colors.
of course it's useless, because absolutely everyone is walking around with a thermal imaging device. people's sanity seems to be declining more and more. tanks don't need armour any more because there are spots where it's easy to get through ....... do you actually notice anything?
indeed, its like saying Tanks or fighter jets are useless because there are anti tank and anti air missiles.
you mean it's NIR useless.
What a joke material, 35% of milsim players in Poland has some kind of thermal device and there no lag in devices like mh25 ...
Be so kind and Name the device.
Thx for sharing your knowledge with us 🙏🏻
@@ripperkon Iray mh25, Jerry C5, PFN 640 to list some of them.
The mh25 does have some delay, I own one and if anything or you are moving fast it’s very noticeable. *click* *freeze* *update*
ech gute videos aber mach doch in Deutsch bitte
Nonsense
Then please share your wisdom with us 🙏🏻
@@ripperkon the people who say it's useless are speaking nonsense 🤣
Please keep up the great videos know that you're inspiring me to go out and do more rappelling and such. I send your links to my friend group very often, I hope to send pictures of us doing rope stuff under NVG
Bro, you are using a needle big hole in your NVGs in DAYLIGHT. Do you even know wtf you are doing? Sometimes I question you. Not really any justice in your arguement. Multicam is the camoflage in the world for a reason. Every SF uses it for a reason.
So I should have used them without daycaps?
What do you want to tel me with this?
Sure Multicam has got its place. I am not sure how deep you are into camouflage and camouflage patterns. But they usually work with contrast. It there is no contrast, you have no pattern.
Nothing wrong about that. Or why would you disagree?
@@ripperkon Used the NVGs during night and compare it with pleb flecktarn.
@@l.g6037 So you want a Multicam/Flecktarn comparison at night?
@@ripperkon That'd be justice, aye!
Many peeps shit on multicam because of pure cope. But it is the best fkn camoflage ever made.
Multicam is only useful for a third or less of the world.
North Europe you need something closer to woodland.
The same for jungle in Asia and south America
White based camos for Arctic places.
Even inside a country you need more than one camo.
In Greece for example if you fight in mainland you need a camo for leaf and tree background (woodland, greek lizard, Flecktarm) but when you move in the islands multicam is better.
You need to consider that multicam was marketed by US for its fighting in Middle East and Africa NOT for Europe or Asia
i desagree tottaly what you are talking about,i see a report from a Ukranian Volunterr in the Front and he said that he saw a russian soldier wearing Nir and was a Russian pointer spying Uiranian trenches for Artillery hits that trenches on the day after....so...
Camouflage is not invisibility. And as I say, it also depends on the environment.
So you would say there is no need to consider any NIR camouflage?
the attention grabber clickbait shit in the beginning hurts me physically
Sorry. I try to do my best to avoid that UA-cam standard as best as I can.
But experience shows, that at least a bit of these methods need to be applied.
No matter how useless your Gear ist... Nothing is more useless than the Russian Troops.
How comes
Bro they invaded a country with 500k standing army that has mobilized 11 times while taking 200k/km of land while only losing 2k/km of land for the entire year. And with the recent US DOD War leak, You really need to stop taking everything you read or see off of twitter as fact.
You should operate on the assumption that most everything you are told about an ongoing war is less than true.
Especially if you live in Russia or a NATO allied country.
*against western weapons
Because they aren't fighting a incapable force. They are fighting land grabbing US, EU funded terrorists
i HOPE soon the German scientist will FIND a NANO SUIT as in CRYSIS game by CRYTEX Gmbh