How Her Cancer Doctors Failed Her | Hannah Fry
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
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Hannah Fry is a British Mathematician and the host of several science/education shows, including her newest project "The Future with Hannah Fry" available through Bloomberg. I invited her on the show to discuss biohacking and what the future of medicine holds for us, as well as Hannah's history of cancer, monogamy, dating apps, and how you can use math to find true love.
The Future with Hannah Fry: www.bloomberg.com/originals/s...
Follow Hannah here:
UA-cam: / fryrsquared
Instagram: / fryrsquared
Twitter: / fryrsquared
00:00 - Math
23:34 - Love
36:55 - Logic
42:54 - Cancer
1:03:30 - The Future of Biohacking
1:22:05 - Check Your Reflexes
1:29:00 - Patient Notes
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Executive Producer: Doctor Mike Varshavski
Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers
Edited by Caroline Weigum
Edited by Juan Carlos Zuniga
* Select photos/videos provided by Getty Images *
** The information in this video is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images, and information, contained in this video is for general information purposes only and does not replace a consultation with your own doctor/health professional ** #podcast #podcasts
She has the most warming, welcoming, & kind voice I’ve ever heard and I just want to listen to her talk forever
She has narrated her audiobooks if you want to listen more.
Listen to the podcast 'The Curious Cases of Rutherford and Fry to get more Prof. Fry in your life.
Know what you mean, something about her voice is so calming.
Because she’s British?
I am actually speechless....this interview blew my mind!! I loved every minute of it!!
I've been watching Hannah Fry since she was first introduced on Numberphile 10 years ago. I had no idea she went through a battle with cancer, though. This is a beautiful crossover and I'm so glad she got to tell her story.
I’m only 7 min in and I’m crying. I appreciate her so damn hard for understanding why so many of us had a hard time. I wish I was understood back in school. She’s right, 1 time you’re not really paying attention it just builds and builds and you’re just too far behind.
This was me. I had so much anxiety in school from having partial hearing loss to being severely bullied that I literally thought I was stupid and would never get the material. Fast forward to having a kid and going back to college taking a remedial class at 28 yo, I got the material and realized I was never stupid at all. What a weight that was lifted! I also realized I enjoyed problem solving when that light bulb moment happens. It's pretty healing actually to the teenage version of myself to show myself I can do those things I thought I couldn't. I also had some not so great teacher who weren't so compassionate so that didn't help lol hope you realize you're a smart person!
This is so true. I was sick and missed long division lessons in 4th grade. Later in 6th grade we got to a lesson that required long division and I didn't do well. I ended up being removed from my advanced math to a regular one. Anytime long division was required in highschool my scores were terrible. I was too embarrassed to tell them I didn't know long division. I think I ended up learning it on my own but like they said. It takes repetition and by the time I learned it it ,it was assumed that I had learned it long ago so I never got to practice with repetition. I still can't do long division. I'd have to Google how to.
@@ItsJennNotJenny 12:05 😮
😢
@@tsfbaf303people from certain groups are just that way lol
@@tsfbaf303unless you’ve gone through the shame, embarrassment and frustration of not understanding something you had to do on a daily basis for YEARS you wouldn’t get it. Consider yourself lucky you can’t relate. And really, if you want to try to shame someone because of their feelings, you should make sure you’re doing it grammatically correct. It would be actual bad news…not actually
As a college student studying to be a mathematician, and having seen Hannah's shows in the past, I appreciate this interview. Mathematics gets a bad rap, but I am thankful for Dr. Mike participating and promoting. Thanks guys!
I just wish it was taught in a better way. I hate math because of how it was taught, how we had no room to make mistakes. The only time I ever did well was with a teacher who told us there are no stupid questions and was there every recess, lunch and after school to help us. I went to her and she was so patient.
Listening to Hannah made me cry. I needed someone like her as a student
@@Mama_Bear524 dye r😢🎉😮🎉😅😅🎉 2:31 🎉😂😂😅😅🎉🎉
A lot of teachers would love to do this, except often they aren't paid for this or they are given a ton of administrative work that does not allow this
She reminds me so much of my math teacher my senior year of high school, just based on the passion. I don't think my teacher really wanted me to memorize the equations, she just wanted me to find some peace in math; which she did give me. It was my hardest subject, but she pulled all the stops so I could graduate with the rest of my class and I'll be forever grateful to her. People with this level of passion in math should be treasured even if we don't like the subject much ❤
This episode had me so deep in the conversation.I watched it again and I wasn't bored. Plus I loved the way she talked. Doctor Mike and team keep it up ❤
The week before Spring Break, my class finished this symposium about, “why we should use Literature in Mathematics.” That is a great way of improving the love for mathematics, because it helps the educator understand the learners learning profile, and improves on the linguistic and logical/mathematical intelligence of Gardner’s multiple intelligences.
To echo the comments of others, this episode was incredibly insightful! Really enjoyed Hannah Fry’s story and opinions. Everything from views on dating apps to communicating uncertainty to being comfortable saying that you don’t know something, I really appreciated all comments. Will be listening to this again to ensure I didn’t miss anything!
47:06 I’m 47 minutes in and this has, without a doubt, been my favourite episode so far! What a fascinating conversation! SO interesting! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
1:38:59 I can confirm that this was my favourite episode yet! 👍
100% agree!
Right?! I’m sitting here in tears because I struggled so damn hard with math. Nobody seemed to care. Only one teacher and she met with us at recess to help. I finally did well once. I just felt so dumb
I know! Interesting and amazing! math is complicated in ways but sometimes it feels like you can do anything. Im relatively good at math and love math! If someone shows me how to do it once or twice I automatically understand it! But when being put in a situation like taking a test I somehow forget the easiest answers
NEVER HAVE I EVER ENJOYED WATHCING PEOPLE TALK THIS MUCH, You are both just DARLING HUMAN BEINGS
I watched Dr Hannah's documentary on BBC Iplayer about her journey with cervical cancer and it was so interesting to hear this follow up interview where her thoughts were directly addressed by Dr Mike. After watching the documentary, it did leave me feeling uncomfortable about how much uncertainty there is with regards to treatment, so it was reassuring to hear this conversation. It would be cool to see more of these topics addressed in the future and maybe how medical statisticians could play a bigger role in science communication (or even have a direct role in population patient care). Thank you Dr Hannah and Dr Mike!
I completely understand her analogy of journeying through vines to discover something beautiful that was already there. I took Math Theory in college (purely logic equations, no numbers) and I struggled and worked so hard, finally, it clicked, and it was amazing. It's a combination of the scientific method, creativity, and reasoning. Set me up perfectly for when I changed to a Poli Sci (pre-law) major and had to analyze cases and arguments. Long story short: Things are more connected than they seem sometimes, and it can be like going on an adventure. I loved this conversation so much!
As a math teacher, I loved her philosophies and found her warmth inspiring. Well done Dr Mike and team!
Loved this conversation. I, ,for one, am HORRIBLE at math. I never could pick it up and actually gave up my dream career due to the need to study intense math. I don't regret it.....I was a stay at home mom and raised a kind and loving man. I enjoyed hearing how beautiful math is to her....like Doctor Mike said, she explained what it meant to her in such a poetic way. Thank you
Dr. Mike, I think Hannah was a great person to interview and her personal experiences with the healthcare system speaks volumes. We need more patient advocacy and for our healthcare systems to allow patients to see their PCP for longer than 15 minutes per visit. How can a patient ever build up trust with their PCP with such a short visit?
What is more important: that you trust your PCP, or that your PCP makes correct diagnoses and recommendations?
Dang, I got more than I expected out of that one. Great interview. Also, both laughs involved in this interview were contagious! 😊
Such a nice informative and educative podcast about medical care in oncology, about mathematics and all that good stuff, I would love to hear more from intelligent and brilliant women like her on the podcast with you
UA-cam keeps autoplaying this one for me in my queue on the regular and I listen completely every time. The way they speak to each other and the content of the conversation is like a hug for my brain 😂❤
Look at these two smart gorgeous people, ew.
Right. Have to love them
Do you hate yourself or something? If this is just a joke, good one I guess? 😅 I don't consider myself to have a broad intelligence nor do I think I am the most attractive person but I think we need to celebrate peoples good qualities more often 😊
@@thewildones2076it’s a joke
I know right
Her voice is so mentally soothing.
This was fantastic! I watched every minute all the way to the end. Fantastic guest and excellent interviewer. I subscribed to the channel because of this episode.
What an amazing interview! I wish these conversations were more relevant in our day to day lives for more "normal" people.
I've just started school again and seeing Dr.Fry talk about math the way she does gives me a little hope I can get through this
This was brilliant. What a great conversation! Truly a thinker this one
Omg, this podcast reminded me of making art. So many people like to tell artists that they're "naturally talented". People who make really good art, have spent years practicing. They had to make tons of "bad" art to do what they do now. And they still aren't "perfect" at it. Anyone can make art if they practice enough.
-Phoenix
I love this lady, she speaks so softly and with unbelievable intelligence.
I’d love to see you interview Bo Burnham! Learning about his struggle with panic attacks hit home for me as an educator. Public speaking and live audiences are part of the gig, just like stand up. I think his story would help many people, in and out of the spotlight.
He is definitely a dream booking but hasn't done press in years :(
I was going to pass this video by, but looked Hannah up, and learned a bit of her story. Loved this podcast! I loved the difference between Dr.Mike and Hannah's perspectives, but ultimately agreeing on fundamentals. So glad I watched this. Math was my worst subject in school...but I repeated my high school courses later in my 30s so I could get into university. And thanks to my MIL being a math tutor/engineer/teacher,I learned that math wasn't as scary as I made it to be! Found Hannah's perspective on the different subjects really thought provoking...especially the monogamy idea. Amazing what talking about math can bring up!
Wow this is a perfect podcast and besides I have a mathematics board exam tomorrow and all the conversations in this are relatable..❤ love it
All the best for your exam tomorrow
Linguist here. Love this chat. ❤ problem solving is at the heart of all thinking.
This video just humbled me in the nicest way possible. You guys are brilliant. Your conversations are ones we need to be having. Thank you. 💗
Thank you for having her on the show. Hannah is delightful!
As a mental health and psychosocial practitioner, this podcast series by Dr Mike, gives me so much to reflect and think about.
Having a deep passion for culture and health communication and literacy, this conversation is definitely a favorite!
So many moments in this conversation that I wished I could jump in and ask a follow up question!
Thanks Dr M. Maybe someday, we could have a chat!
Math always made me feel stupid and I struggled with it a lot until I had a tutor that knew how to teach me, specifically. That was more algebra if anything and then I went on to take statistics for my bachelors degree and I picked that up quick. The reason being that I was in love with science and statistics was necessary to read research data. That professor was also very helpful in taking time through zoom to teach me the way I needed to be taught. So I definitely agree the person learning math has to have some practical motivation.
I love this so much! So much of what Dr. Fry said resonated with me as a fellow mathematician, especially about how math is taught and why we should approach it more as learning a new language than as a personal trait of being innately good or bad at math. Plus as someone who once wrote a paper on why Bayes Theorem is my favorite theorem, I really appreciated the discussion of Bayesian statistics :)
This is my fav episode yet. The chemistry between you too was so good. I learned a lot on medical side. I am a person who only goes to doctor unless it’s way more of a emergency. Like I haven’t had a check up since high school. Which was like 7 years ago for physicals in sports. But maybe I’ll go see a primary care doctor so they’ll be more familiar with me.
She’s so smart, confident and pleasant.
damn, as a student of control systems engineering, for me this interview was an absolute gem,
Felt really touched seeing people having emotional response to math, even I am not good at it, but there is a child like happiness working with mathematical tools and being able to see their implications in real life , and heck it helped me through my anxiety issues long time ago
Thissss, math was the only subject in school that didn’t fill me with anxiety and I think it’s because of exactly what Dr Hannah said about keeping the brain busy and it’s a way of thinking.
This video would go perfectly with my education class, “Teaching Math in Elementary School.” We are learning how to use manipulatives in the classroom, the different ways of solving mathematical problems, and how to help students develop a growth mindset instead of fixed mindsets for mathematical concepts.
I've loved Hannah Fry for years. I've been a fan of Doctor Mike too. This was a great show. Very thought provoking.
I love Dr Fry! So pleased to see her here!
As a maths uni student in the UK, maths both fascinates me and makes me nauseous, so i'm in the same boat as you Mike! Also loved the Matt Parker name drop from Hannah, he has a great youtube channel called standupmaths that I would recommend to anyone even if they're not interested!
Second most of what has already been said!
Man!!! What a gorgeous watch!!!! Kept catching my attention every it came into the shot!!!
Enjoyed a lot watching this. Thank you.
I'm currently a university student studying genetics, hoping to get into clinical medicine someday. It was 2018 or 19, sometime before Covid, I met Dr Fry in person at a maths event for secondary school students, I was in Year 12 (for Americans, junior year of high school). She talked about prime numbers and prime triangles, it was fascinating, and really made many of my classmates go into STEM, including myself. Genetics requires a lot of statistics, and I like the practical way that maths can be incorporated into many different scenarios. Back in my first years of high school, my teacher literally used jaywalking as a way to teach us the triangle inequalities, and it was one of the most memorable maths lessons to this day.
And that thing about the paradox of choice, it reminds me of something I learnt on designing menus for food tech class, where higher end restaurants have less choice than places like McDonald's, where everything's laid out in front of you.
Overall, great episode, and I can't wait for more cerebral-ly episodes like this. Recommending the movie "The Man From Earth" if you're interested in what it'll be like to immortal.
“…a portal to a playground in the soul…” so moving…the best way of manifesting the beauty of math. Thank you
Enjoyed it the podcast a lot, you guys are a joy to listen to!
Just to provide a different perspective:
Biohacking is not only about life extension, but also about helping people self-medicate when traditional medicine has failed them.
For example, I have had strong recurring periods of fatigue caused by a viral infection for about a year now, and doctor's just look at my tests and say "well, everything is normal".
So self-medication is my way to try to figure out what I can still do to improve my quality of life.
Same. I wore a fitness watch before I got sick and still wear one now. It’s a shame they won’t even entertain considering the data on these things alongside symptoms. This experience just made me realise how little the professionals really know about health. Keep going.
@Doctormike Really enjoyed this episode. Hope you have her back on the podcast. 😊
Math was absolute torture for me all throughout elementary and high school. Brought me to tears regularly, even with tutoring. Turns out I have Discalculia, a learning disability with numbers that no one picked up on.
I don't know whether you have explored the possibility that this may be part of a wider neurological condition? If we are labelling, ADHD can often exhibit as either dyslexia or discalculia. People with ADHD often see a large picture, but it can also be hard to see through the noise to see the individual constituents of whatever area causes problems.
Absolutely. I actually do have ADHD, but unfortunately was only diagnosed in my thirties. Early diagnosis could have potentially spared me a lot of grief with the appropriate learning supports and accommodations.
Super late on this comment but I’m sooo glad you eventually got the diagnosis you deserve and lived a happy life despite your troubles
@@morethanordinary7891 aw that's lovely. thank you.
I'm only 7 minutes in, but what Hannah said about loving or hating math is so true. I'm a high school teacher with an undergrad in mathematics. I work with special education students but do deal with general education students as well. There are so many factors that get in the way of learning math. A lot of it is that if they miss a lesson here or there, they start to fall behind and then it just ends up being this cycle of never catching up and being seen as bad at it and then hating it. I think sometimes, other people can influence kids. When trying to find help and being told "oh I can't help, I'm no good at math." It probably makes them want to give up. I remember in undergrad, people in the program that were wanting to be elementary teachers would mention how much they disliked math or how bad they were at it. I could see that rubbing off on kids. It's a struggle. I feel like my siblings and I got lucky. My brother and I, in particular, are pretty good at math. My brother taught our nephew about negative numbers 2 or 3 years ago, and the kid is currently only 8. My best friend's youngest, who is only 9, loves math class, so I worked with her once when I was visiting and taught her some tricks.
I'm also not a fan of the education system in general in the US. It really does need an overhaul.
Wow, the button pushing analogy really hit me. As a cancer survivor as well, life would be so much easier if I had never gone through it. However, the amount of good that has come from that experience, like the ability to brighten other’s lives through inspiration and encouragement or bringing light to certain issues that come with having cancer has made it all worth it. So, I agree with Hannah, I wouldn’t push that button either. Great podcast as always Dr. Mike!
This was so interesting. Truly enjoyed this conversation.
I was just binging some numberphile vids and now I'm blessed with this. Amazing
I love this video!!! The best, thank you! ❤❤ I love her!
I am studying to be a pedagogue specialized in mathematics. Thank you for introduce us to Hannah ❤
In my GP (UK) practice, they no longer assign patients to one doctor. I now do not have a doctor assigned to me, so even though I have chronic conditions, I see a different doctor each time. It’s really bad. The family doctor system seems so much better in the US.
No. They do that here sometimes too. And often brush things off. The amount of times they get it wrong because of negligence here is wild. It's not great here.
My GP offers me the option to see the one named doctor every time, if I choose. I am in UK. I think it all depends on the particular practice you attend.
Absolutely loved the energy, Dr. Hannah hit close to home while explaining the beauty of math, I've come to love (currently a uni student) physics and astrophysics through an identical manner - currently doing my BSc in Astrophysics and planning to be a PhD researcher/professor like her one day
She is one of the most captivating and interesting (and funny!) podcast guests ive ever single too, not just on Mikes but all podcasts
Fantastic discussion! Thank you!
U think this is the first episode of the check up that i've actually watched in one sitting without getting distracted and watching the rest later or pausing to go on a other app.
This was so interesting and engaging. For me it seemed much more phylisofical rather dan mathematical. I really enjoyed the thought excersises and different poinst of view
That was fantastic. Dr Mike did a great job and Hannah is always amazing. Interrobangs rule!
I don’t usually comment but oh my god this episode is absolutely amazing! such a pleasure to listen. thank you for this wonderful podcast!
absolutely buzzed to watch this video!
This was incredible, thank you.
Question ideas:
What weighed you down this week? Or the opposite
What got your heart racing?
Something about what was sweet... thinking blood glucose level?
Side thought, why do we only measure blood glucose levels and not other sugars?
Ended already?? I need more of this amazing conversation 😍 what I love the most is that we can learn so much with these interviews! ❤
Nothing worth having comes easy, absolutely. Fantastic pod! So informative and totally makes sense. Perhaps if Maths was shown to me in a more creative way I might have become an accountant? Love what I do now but accountancy was a profession I never thought I'd be clever enough to achieve (carrot and stick scenario)
Wow... this is one of the best interviews so far! Definitely enjoyed some of the light hearted ones, but this was the perfect mix of philosophical questions, some jokes, some serious life experiences, and practical health advice! Ms. Fry has such an interesting background and life and it was really interesting for both of you to discuss these topics with your varied perspectives
Doctor fry*
This is the best episode yet!
I love the recap session at the end!
So elated to see her become such a big success. I remember watching her videos on Numberphile way back in the day!
I love hearing intellectual conversations like this!
Enjoyed the conversation! Very interesting! Just to clarify, Seinsei means teacher in Japanese and Taekwondo is a Korean martial arts (so they don’t call you Sensei there).
I like how she talks about mathematics. I enjoy doing math for myself. I didnt use to like it when I was younger but with good teachers with college I did end up enjoying the subject, especially geometry and trig, which is stuff I use all the time at work
These episodes really help me chill out! Thank you for every one!
Mike,
The #16 podcast with Hannah Fry was the most intellectually enjoyable show I've seen in long time. I loved seeing here feminist personality show so strongly. No matter what people say though, you will always be known as one of the greatest doctors there ever was;) That can't be taken from you.
p.s. The old souls usually have a way of finding
each other in life so they're never alone.
❤️
Lilly
This was such an amazing episode! I loved thinking about risk from both sides (statistics and medicine) that provoked a lot of deep thought for me. Dr. Mike, you mention Pilates having little to no negative impacts but maybe dating apps do. What about if some feel like Pilates promises some kind of perfect body the way some diet fads do and get negative health impacts from disappointment associated with not seeing results that are marketed as the result of Pilates?
The segment about cancer is spot on. In the USA, you'll find two types of doctors; luckily, my S/O found the one who gave all of the choices, _in a spectrum._ Or even _à la carte._ My friend, with similar cancer, had her treatment dictated. Seven years out, the relatively conservative route has been successful (not that affects of treatment were trivial in any way.)
what they talk about with missing a step and falling behind happened to me half way through a physics degree. which is probably the worst time for it to happen. how i managed to push through and graduate is probably my proudest acheivement.
As someone who had an arranged marriage and have been happily married for 28 years and counting-Doctor Mike’s reaction cracked me up!🤣💗💞
I enjoy Dr Mike's content, but I'm a huge fan of Dr Hannah from Numberphile through Rutherford & Fry, so this was a real treat!
I watched this once out of interest, now I watch it because their voices are so relaxing I fall asleep maybe 20 mins in
She was one of my lecturers during my master's degree in UCL! Her teaching style is so fun
LOVED this one ❤
I have come late to this, and have listened several times for all the reasons everybody else here have given already so won't repeat. What you (both) said about doctors *not* knowing struck a chord. Having a rare neurological condition, I have had to do with quite a few neurologists, the best of whom are open about the limits of their knowledge in the condition of myasthenia gravis. It may seem counterintuitive but that openness can be such a comfort when dealing with dead-ends to treatments, or inevitable side-effects and how to manage them, if at all. Another comfort is a book I turn to often, so very often, in trying times: 'The Cunning Man', by Robertson Davies, A guest I would *love* to hear your chat with would be Sandi Toksvig. To sum up, Keep up the good work, Doctor Mike!
Another great podcast episode.I'm just loving your guest you have on every week.Every section of today's interview was interesting & fascinating at the same time and as always,I will watch it again.I'm a picky watcher so if I watch things twice,then you know it's really really good.👌 Favourite podcast channel by far.Thanks Dr Mike for keeping it real all the time.Looking forward to the next episode 🤗
As a 7 yr survivor of neuroendocrine cancer I can relate to much Hannah said. On a personal level, she may be the sexiest woman I've ever watched. Intelligence is so underrated.
"Can you teach mathematics without numbers?..." I remember looking through one of my sorority sister's textbooks (she was an Applied Mathematics major) and it was cloth-bound, looked like a novel from the outside. Inside, it was ALL letters--not just equation variable letters, but hundreds of pages of text. I closed that book quickly before it seared my retinas, but wow do I have respect for all the scholars out there learning these arcane subjects that keep our world turning. Such a pleasure hearing intelligent people passionate about their fields chat. Keep up the good work!
1:03:09 thank you for mentioning transport asa potential barrier, so many others seem to miss this
I really enjoyed this entire episode. If I may say the best part of this podcasts are Patients notes. 😊 Keep up the good work 👌
Ohh, I love Hannah Fry!
This will be great
Excellent podcast! so much information delivered in such an easy to consume manner.
Brilliant conversation
At the end you talked about living forever and you had some interesting thoughts about it. So I really REALLY have to mention "the Man from earth". Its such a great movie. You have to watch this!
Best podcast on all of UA-cam so much different type of content on viewing things. I have learned so much from each episode I am just so happy that you do this!!! ❤❤❤ I also don’t mind math I love patterns but it’s not that I love it love it!
This episode was really special
Love listing to this podcast and all the different points of view of each guest
Thanks!
Looking forward to see who you check on next
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Very interesting conversation
The first time I thought differently about math was when I read a book by Yoko Ogawa called "The housekeeper and the professor" which is about a lady taking care of a mathematician with memory loss, who then teaches math to both his housekeeper and her son that visits. I never thought that mistakes aren't bad, they're just showing a way of thinking and they are just a step to reach destination that can be taken through different roads. Reading that book made me kinda sad that my math lessons looked the way they did, because I never really liked it; I wasn't good or very bad at it, but whenever I couldn't do something I felt bad. Or during uni our professor used to choose people who already knew how to do the task when the rest of us couldn't even keep up with writing it down from the board lol. I very much recommend that book; there are many interesting facts and tasks that I even tried my friend to do one of them :D
Love this podcast, and I agree we are master at BSing/PR ourself why we need or don´t need something, like Love, houses, watches etc. and then try to make our decisions logical. I love this "nerdy" details of this conversation.
I'm 39 and I can say with certainty that I've lived a good life and that if I die tomorrow I wouldn't be sad that I didn't live to my 80s - I have cerebral palsy, I've dealt with depression, suffered losses but through those challenges I've been forced to focus on what and who really make me happy. I entirely agree that it's not the number of years you live that matter but the connections you make and the passions you explore along the way. As such, (and somewhat in contrast to the point Hannah and Mike were making about sticking to health fundamentals) I never say no to ice cream and I always press the snooze button at least twice.