I don’t know why I bother listening to other channels opinions on subjects when I know I can just come listen to you guys…. Just wish the UA-cam algorithm was kinder to y’all. I’m going to like and comment on every single video to help boost (not this moment) your UA-cam ratings because you guys are and educational service. Wish I lived in Colorado, I’d love to buy you guys beers and talk cars.
Cool segment. My $.02 on the matter from past tuning experience, the larger the turbo, the more power you can obtain from using e85. From stock frame, large internal turbos, (FP whatever, Blouch Dominator whatever) to larger rotated turbos (6266, 35r etc) you can start to pull timing (bad) in the mid 20's psi on 91/93 octane, and still make exponential power (good) into the 40 psi range on e85, turbo dependant, of course. Apart from expensive fuel systems, and decreased mpg, increased oil change intervals are another draw back to running e85. Engine oil gets saturated as the fuel leaks past the rings, and 2,000-2,500 mile oil changes become a reality. If you get into the big injectors, 1700 cc and up, they can be physically too large to tune at low pulse widths, and the car can run rich at idle/slow cruising speeds, etc. This isn't always the case with really big injectors, but it certainly can be. It is an amazing fuel though.
This sounds alot like my situation. My cars got a 6mm bigger hybrid turbo vs stock (60mm vs 54mm) and Ive been going back and forth with my tuner. Car seems to always pull back 1-3 degrees of timing up top with 93 on ~26lbs of boost. My turbo to my knowledge is built to not go above 32lbs but the goal was hitting 29lbs. And my tuner suggested going E85 and claims the stock system would handle it
@@kylelyons1939 if you're only pulling 1-3 degrees on a small turbo at 26psi, that's actually better then I'd expect. I'm surprised you're DAM isn't changing at that boost pressure on 93. It's a death sentence for your engine if it's stock with pump gas though. Switch to e85. What are you referencing to "stock system"?
One thing worth mentioning is ethanol will dilute the oil more than pump gas. I live in CT and ran an e79 map all winter. I am very fortunate the gas station supplies a consistent blend all year long. I keep an ethanol content sensor in the car to monitor. I noticed after about 1200 -1500 miles of driving the oil pressure gradually drops overtime. It was normal to see around 90 psi at operating temp, around 2500 rpm and up, after a fresh oil change. After about 1500 miles The pressure would get as low as 65-70 psi. What I concluded is that ethanol must be getting past the rings and diluting the oil. It make sense since an enormous amount of fuel is required especially during cold-start at colder ambient temps. In order to keep the engine healthy the oil has to be changed much more frequently. I now use my oil pressure gauge as an indicator to tell when it’s time to change my oil. I run motul 5w-40. Has anyone else experienced this? Thank you for all of the great content you guys provide!
Thanks for the great comment! The best way to get an idea with is going on with your oil is to send a sample or two off for oil analysis. That will definitely tell you what is going on. Stay Tuned!
I'm with Nigel, love having flex fuel on my daily driver WRX. 30% more power and 30% more torque compared to stock. Only mods on my EJ255 are flex fuel kit, injectors, AEM pump, with a pro tune. There are 3-4 E85 stations within 10 miles or so, which is nice.
9:40 time marker; 2015 WRX mile high owner with ~90k miles on the engine and contemplating the leap to E85. I will be in your shop tomorrow to rap on this further! LOVE YOU MAD LADS!
@@FlatironsTuning I waited too long on the Cobb flex fuel kit and it got killt. Hoping for a CARB approved version of the kit, but while I wait.....where would you go instead in regards to power making upgrades? I'm eyeballing a few upgrades, but a aftermarket TMIC or aftermarket intake/exhaust headers are speaking to me. I'm also curious to understand the benefit of a short throw upgrade and if it's a more reasonable/worth while upgrade compared to some of the additional intake/exhaust upgrades I can perform post intake/jpipe/CBE with a tune.
Good video. I run a 2.5L Forester with a VF46 turbo (relatively small - off a Legacy/Liberty) on E85 full-time. 20% power increase across the same-shaped dyno curve on jungle juice. Running 1000cc injectors, larger fuel pump and some changed fuel lines. Oil changes every 5000kms. Both catch cans fill with a lot of water vapour and "butter" oily emulsion. I make an effort to not take the car out for short trips so the oil gets up to temp (to boil off fuel & water in the crank case) every time. Have changed the fuel filter once since the E85 switch and the old filter had no noticeable contaminants. Overall I am happy with the E85 switch but it's not for everyone.
I daily my 20G E85 Evo. Straight E85 all year around in CO. No flex fuel but that might be a future thing. Haven't ran into any issues, but I don't beat down my car except on rare occasions. Your going to be filling up twice as much and spend the same you would on premium. No cold start issues, etc. It's been great. I use Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40, 1500 mile oil changes as well.
currently opensource tuned on E85 for the summer, it's nice to have the extra power and it's cheaper per mile compared to 91. Biggest issues are availability, and cold-starts in the winter
It was weird in Canada. the e85 was only at a few stations, was pumped by the gas attendant and they will not let you buy it unless it is going into a flex fuel car. I don't where you can buy it now without having it delivered in barrels. It was kind of a flop up here because the government controlled it so much for the tuner community and the mileage sucks for the non tuner community. this is in Ontario, maybe out west is different
Yeah, there can definitely be issues if someone puts E85 in their car and it isn't designed to run that type of fuel. I understand the precaution, but it is a shame that it isn't easier to find E85 up there. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I run all open source via Tactrix cable 06 sti platform I just make sure to do the fuel swap as controlled as I can. As in drain your tank and lines and run the car till it dies then fill with e85 and flash in the tune and let her eat. When going back to 92 octane I just fill the tank at the station and flash my 92 octane map back in and no issues. It’s really only going to e85 is the problem and then having a correct tune based on the ethanol content. So an ethanol sensor is still used to monitor content but for the most part it’s really not that bad. Except 1 station in Eugene Oregon which is 125 miles away from my home.
My 2020 STI loves running E85. It's an hour drive to get it but I get 50 gallons at a time and my STI isn't my daily so its not a big deal. My car is currently making 670whp and 574wtq on E85. Biggest downside for me is how often I need to change my oil now which is something a lot of people don't talk about.
If you go with a built motor, request tighter clearances tighter ring gap components specifically designed for e85. That should help with ethanol getting past the rings prematurely contaminating the oil.
gonna be in the same boat after its finished in the next few weeks... either of you guys know a way to check ethanol content of oil? or... are we just having change often to be safe? how often are you changing yours? every 3k religiously?
I'm in the camp of it not being worth it, at least for now, because stations that carry it are to far and few in between to be worth the effort for me. The motor is being built now and will be capable of running E85 but I'm only tuning for 91 octane pump gas for now. It will also be my daily and used for doing cross country trips, so the fuel mileage loss is also not acceptable for that.
Nice 👍 thanks for the video very informative. That being said received my Cobb flex fuel kit today for my 2018 wrx just waiting on aem in tank fuel pump and tuning here we go. Had E85 tune in my mazdaspeed 3 also DIT totally transformed the car , the only hassle was measuring E85 gallons with 93 but the Cobb flex fuel kit makes it so much practical.
Great video ! Question…. I live in California and have a 2011 WRX. For the last 7 years I’ve been running E85 on ID1000 injectors. I never had to worry about smog check because I would get a hook up. As of July 2021, now California checks the tune on the car to make sure your running the OEM base map. Problem is, I was unable to run a stock tune because my car can’t run on the stock tune with ID1000 injectors, it would stumble….. so what I had to do was remove all my aftermarket parts and revert back to OEM , which was a huge PITA. I’m now trying to mod the car in such a way so I can easily switch between tunes and ensure I can simply unmarry and run the base map for smog… Question is , injectors ….. I hate switching out injectors to run e85 What’s the smallest CC injector I can run that can effectively run E85 and also the base tune….. currently I bought a set of DW565 injectors , which match the OEM flow rate, but I don’t think that gives me enough headroom to run E85 through a flex fuel kit….. Any suggestions ? Hope I didn’t ramble on …. Current mods , AEM CAI , GS TMIC , Cat back exhaust . That’s it on a Cobb OTS map…. Which sucks btw
Any injector with higher flow than stock will have issues. The tuning difference is primarily in Injector scaling, which scales the fuel map based on how much flow your injectors have. There may be a workaround, but from what I know, you can't run bigger injectors on a stock tune.
@@DJ_Driven this is the first I’ve heard of this . Crazy to think, but that sounds like it would work and be easy to deal with come smog check….. I’ll have to look more into this.
Trying to get them to move a station down to coosbay Oregon. The home of turbo sand rails on the dunes that are literally asking me every day where to get e85 here in town
E85 , user definitely the way to go also well worth the increase maintenance and fuel system upgrade. definitely worth the performance gain even without the flex fuel sensor. not my daily though so there's that. also like to go to Walmart once in awhile for things
I will be going on vacation for about a week. Do you think it will be fine if I have my car sit for that long with e85? Or should I plan to fill up 93 before I leave?
Thanks for the question. You should be fine to let your car sit that long. We have had our race car sit much longer than that with fuel and it hasn't caused any issues. It is certainly not ideal, but I'd say that 1 week should not cause any issues. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you! I don't know if you guys have already covered this, but I was wondering if you could talk more in depth about the power band and torque curve in racing. Where you want your power and what cam/turbo to choose. I'm looking at an EJ hybrid build using BC stage 3 cams, and Boost lab TD06-SL2 (GTX3071) turbo. I looked at his dyno, and there's not much power below 3500, but the power stays on, basically all the way up into redline. Other builds that I've seen, the power comes in earlier but tapers down significantly after around 5k. What would be the advantages to either set up?
This is a great segment, I've shared quite a few of these with my son who has a tuned Forester XT, he's been thinking about E85 too. We both really enjoyed the radiator cap insights. What do you guys think about using lapel mic's for these videos?
Awesome video. I recently made the change to flex fuel. With the E85, I heard you need to make more frequent oil changes and you cant have it sit for long period of time and need to avoid short drives. Is that true?
Thanks for the question. The short answer is yes. In a perfect world, you would want to change your oil about every 1,000 miles if you are running E85. Though if you are getting the car good and hot as you are driving it, etc., there may be less contamination of your oil. It really depends. To know for sure, you would want to send oil samples out for analysis. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have been talking back and forth with my tuner about adding an Ethanol map to my 02 bug. I still have the 2.0 which is fully built and what I am told is completely maxed out in it's current state, unless I go to bigger injectors and Ethanol. I don't even know where to begin because I'm so old skool
I've been beyond happy with my flex fuel set up. I'm mix my own fuel with a % of Methanol and 99 fuel and have had zero issues. I was making 450hp before and now I'm on 500.5hp with the Meth. With the sensor it makes it so easy and safe. More power, better knock protection, and mixing my fuel with Meth makes it cheaper to run the car so it's win win win
all you really need is 1000cc injectors and a walbro 255 for e85 that's the minimum that you can do. I'm running that fuel set up on my bug but on my blob I have Id1700cc and a walbro 450 pump I say go for it.
My experience is on a setup like that with 1. Ej205 and 2. Relatively small turbo it's not worth the hassle that comes from e85. I'm talking about fuel filters, oil changes, mpg, the expense of setup and tuning and then the starting quality of e85. On a smaller airflow setup your really cranking the timing to get the power and thats hard on pistons and bearings. The turbo flow is limited not like you can say run 10 lbs more of boost cause you have a much bigger turbo and a closed deck block to be able handle it. Check my videos I did exactly that, e85 on a 20g and ended up lifting my heads then spit a shim trying to push a built 205
That is interesting, but it makes sense. It would be amazing if they could find a better, more cost effective way to produce ethanol for sure. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Folks dumb question, they say avoid short distance driving on e85 but whats the minimum time that i can drive the car if not for, is 30mins enough to get the water out from the oil??? Appreciate all your inputs
Thanks for your question. 20 - 30 Min sounds right. The main thing is you want to get the oil and coolant up to operating temperature, which would typically happen in about 20 minutes of driving. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I converted my car to E a few months back. Here in the springs it's cheaper than premium per mile. I wish I could have gotten the flex fuel kit but unfortunately cobb doesn't support flex-fuel for the 04 wrx.
Thanks for the comment. Take a look at Delicious Tuning as I believe they have a flex-fuel option for the 16 bit ECU's. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@thatsicksubiegt I have been since december of 21. I upgraded injectors and edited the tune to add more fuel. If I want to take a road trip I do need to empty my tank and flash a 91 map since the car won't automatically blend maps. I have many e85 stations near me so it's not a hassle to fill up.
Great video on E85! Quick question it seems everyone has different opinions on, when installing the e85 kit does it matter if it is on the feed side of the fuel system or the return side? I personally have mine on the return side but I’ve seen people make it work both ways. Thanks
It does seem that installing the sensor on the return line is more common, but I'd always differ to the directions from the manufacturer of the kit you are using. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Ok.. so if I get the Cobb flex fuel sensor kit and all the fuel mods I can get a tune and then use 91 if I can’t get e85 ? And it will tell the ecu that I have low ethanol and adjust the pro tune ?
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. Yes, that is correct. Once yoru Flex Fuel tune is working, you can have any percent of ethanol in your fuel, from zero (pump gas) up to the level that you were tuned for (80% - 85% most of the time). The sensor will give the car enough information to adapt the mapping of the engine to match the percent of ethanol you have in your fuel. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have a built motor in my GD sti with an 18g turbo. Goal is 400 whp. I can do flex fuel sensor with e85 or go bigger turbo on pump gas (blouch dom). I do have e85 available in my area. Which is a better option?
Thanks for your question. I'm not sure that you could get close to 400 whp on an 18G even on E85. Heck, it is not a given on a 20G even. I'd really say that you would be best to look at a larger turbo. Something like the Turbo Dynamics MDX-450 or Dom 1.5 which are both in the Garrett 3071 family. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. That sensor will give you a reading, but I don't believe that it can be tied into your ECU to chance the tune in real time. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Anyone running E85 kit on a Stinger 3.3? Also, I presume these kits would be available for WRX, Si, Golf R maybe. Hyundai Elantra N. Does the E85 kit and running it, with the proper tune, damage OEM built engines?
We don't have any experience with that platform, but if it is high compression or especially direct injection, there would likely be some benefits for the conversion. There are definitely some key details to keep in mind when making the switch, but a larger injector and good tune are definitely key components for sure. More frequent oil change intervals are another one as well. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have a flex fuel kit in my car, it uses the regular GM Continental style sensor. The adapter cable connects the ECU harness plug into the E85 sensor. I have an Innovate E85 gauge but without a 2nd E85 sensor I can't hook up because the gauge plug uses the same spot on the E85 sensor as the ecu cable. They both use the same plug end/spot on the E85 sensor. Do you guys know if I strip/depin the wires connecting the ECU plug into the E85 sensor and do the same for the Innovate gauge, then repin/merge them into single plug for the E85 sensor, that both the Innovate gauge and ECU can read from the same sensor? Edit: just got a call from my Tuner JK tuning in Carlisle PA, he said you can Tee both them together
@@DJ_Driven it's not factory wiring. The ECU harness comes through firewall and terminates at multiple plug ends. There is a cable that plugs into one of those plug ends and the other end plugs into the ethanol sensor. Then I would T into the plug going into the ethanol sensor
I might be clueless but wouldn't methanol injection be more practical for most people looking for power from a daily driver? Is there a reason it isn't discussed more?
General consesus is those systems tend to be unreliable and it's not a matter of if but when a failure occurs and resulting engine damage. Hope that helps. They were all the rage before e85 came along
Yes, but need more methanol even larger injectors, and higher flow fuel system to handle it vs E85. A supplemental methanol injection system like snow performance for example would work best paired to a controller linked to the stock ECU monitoring flow sensors or even better a standalone ECU for greatest reliability.
basically alcohol based fuels are alcohol-based fuels problem but that you're adding extra complications to the fueling system. yeah nobody's going to warranty if it causes engine damage due to failure or empty. the best nothing else systems would have an integrated fail safe. which may or may not require a standalone ECU. The power gains aren't worth the risk over pump E85, If your using methanol for cooling ie not adjusting the tune to take advantage of the added fuel. you're probably not going to see the gaines you're looking for unless you live in a real hot climate.
Thanks for your question. We actually had a pretty in-depth conversation about this on one of our Podcasts. Here is a link to that: ua-cam.com/video/K52E0NKWMcU/v-deo.html There are some benefits to methanol injection, but there are a number of things you have to watch out for. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Cobb is going to lose a lot of customers with their “green initiative”. There are plenty of other companies that will step up and provide the products consumers in the car communities actually want. EV sustainability amongst other “green efforts” are a long long way out, if ever. I’ve yet to meet a car enthusiast whom has embraced some George jetson mobile as a means to motorsports.
I don’t know why I bother listening to other channels opinions on subjects when I know I can just come listen to you guys…. Just wish the UA-cam algorithm was kinder to y’all. I’m going to like and comment on every single video to help boost (not this moment) your UA-cam ratings because you guys are and educational service. Wish I lived in Colorado, I’d love to buy you guys beers and talk cars.
Thanks very much and really appreciate the comment!
Glad that the videos have been helpful.
Stay Tuned!
Cool segment. My $.02 on the matter from past tuning experience, the larger the turbo, the more power you can obtain from using e85. From stock frame, large internal turbos, (FP whatever, Blouch Dominator whatever) to larger rotated turbos (6266, 35r etc) you can start to pull timing (bad) in the mid 20's psi on 91/93 octane, and still make exponential power (good) into the 40 psi range on e85, turbo dependant, of course. Apart from expensive fuel systems, and decreased mpg, increased oil change intervals are another draw back to running e85. Engine oil gets saturated as the fuel leaks past the rings, and 2,000-2,500 mile oil changes become a reality. If you get into the big injectors, 1700 cc and up, they can be physically too large to tune at low pulse widths, and the car can run rich at idle/slow cruising speeds, etc. This isn't always the case with really big injectors, but it certainly can be. It is an amazing fuel though.
Great comment! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
My idle is pretty rich lol
This sounds alot like my situation. My cars got a 6mm bigger hybrid turbo vs stock (60mm vs 54mm) and Ive been going back and forth with my tuner. Car seems to always pull back 1-3 degrees of timing up top with 93 on ~26lbs of boost. My turbo to my knowledge is built to not go above 32lbs but the goal was hitting 29lbs. And my tuner suggested going E85 and claims the stock system would handle it
@@kylelyons1939 if you're only pulling 1-3 degrees on a small turbo at 26psi, that's actually better then I'd expect. I'm surprised you're DAM isn't changing at that boost pressure on 93. It's a death sentence for your engine if it's stock with pump gas though. Switch to e85. What are you referencing to "stock system"?
One thing worth mentioning is ethanol will dilute the oil more than pump gas. I live in CT and ran an e79 map all winter. I am very fortunate the gas station supplies a consistent blend all year long. I keep an ethanol content sensor in the car to monitor. I noticed after about 1200 -1500 miles of driving the oil pressure gradually drops overtime. It was normal to see around 90 psi at operating temp, around 2500 rpm and up, after a fresh oil change. After about 1500 miles The pressure would get as low as 65-70 psi. What I concluded is that ethanol must be getting past the rings and diluting the oil. It make sense since an enormous amount of fuel is required especially during cold-start at colder ambient temps. In order to keep the engine healthy the oil has to be changed much more frequently.
I now use my oil pressure gauge as an indicator to tell when it’s time to change my oil. I run motul 5w-40.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thank you for all of the great content you guys provide!
Thanks for the great comment!
The best way to get an idea with is going on with your oil is to send a sample or two off for oil analysis. That will definitely tell you what is going on.
Stay Tuned!
I'm with Nigel, love having flex fuel on my daily driver WRX. 30% more power and 30% more torque compared to stock. Only mods on my EJ255 are flex fuel kit, injectors, AEM pump, with a pro tune. There are 3-4 E85 stations within 10 miles or so, which is nice.
Nice! Glad it is working well for you.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
9:40 time marker; 2015 WRX mile high owner with ~90k miles on the engine and contemplating the leap to E85. I will be in your shop tomorrow to rap on this further! LOVE YOU MAD LADS!
Thanks very much! Stay tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning I waited too long on the Cobb flex fuel kit and it got killt. Hoping for a CARB approved version of the kit, but while I wait.....where would you go instead in regards to power making upgrades? I'm eyeballing a few upgrades, but a aftermarket TMIC or aftermarket intake/exhaust headers are speaking to me. I'm also curious to understand the benefit of a short throw upgrade and if it's a more reasonable/worth while upgrade compared to some of the additional intake/exhaust upgrades I can perform post intake/jpipe/CBE with a tune.
10 years running e85 in my wrx , i love it
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Good video. I run a 2.5L Forester with a VF46 turbo (relatively small - off a Legacy/Liberty) on E85 full-time. 20% power increase across the same-shaped dyno curve on jungle juice. Running 1000cc injectors, larger fuel pump and some changed fuel lines. Oil changes every 5000kms. Both catch cans fill with a lot of water vapour and "butter" oily emulsion. I make an effort to not take the car out for short trips so the oil gets up to temp (to boil off fuel & water in the crank case) every time. Have changed the fuel filter once since the E85 switch and the old filter had no noticeable contaminants.
Overall I am happy with the E85 switch but it's not for everyone.
Thanks for the comment! Stay Tuned!
Great content as always. You guys have always been a reputable source of wisdom for the Subaru community! Thanks for what you do.
Thanks for the comment! We definitely do what we can, and we are glad that we can help.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I daily my 20G E85 Evo. Straight E85 all year around in CO. No flex fuel but that might be a future thing. Haven't ran into any issues, but I don't beat down my car except on rare occasions. Your going to be filling up twice as much and spend the same you would on premium. No cold start issues, etc. It's been great. I use Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40, 1500 mile oil changes as well.
Thanks for the comment. Stay Tuned!
currently opensource tuned on E85 for the summer, it's nice to have the extra power and it's cheaper per mile compared to 91. Biggest issues are availability, and cold-starts in the winter
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
It was weird in Canada. the e85 was only at a few stations, was pumped by the gas attendant and they will not let you buy it unless it is going into a flex fuel car. I don't where you can buy it now without having it delivered in barrels. It was kind of a flop up here because the government controlled it so much for the tuner community and the mileage sucks for the non tuner community. this is in Ontario, maybe out west is different
lolz here they practically make you sign a waiver, because so many people mix it up with diesel.
Yeah, there can definitely be issues if someone puts E85 in their car and it isn't designed to run that type of fuel. I understand the precaution, but it is a shame that it isn't easier to find E85 up there.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
We also have pump race gas in coosbay vp fuel station 110 octane I will add a couple gallons on a fill up if I’m feeling frisky definatly helps.
I run all open source via Tactrix cable 06 sti platform I just make sure to do the fuel swap as controlled as I can. As in drain your tank and lines and run the car till it dies then fill with e85 and flash in the tune and let her eat. When going back to 92 octane I just fill the tank at the station and flash my 92 octane map back in and no issues. It’s really only going to e85 is the problem and then having a correct tune based on the ethanol content. So an ethanol sensor is still used to monitor content but for the most part it’s really not that bad. Except 1 station in Eugene Oregon which is 125 miles away from my home.
My 2020 STI loves running E85. It's an hour drive to get it but I get 50 gallons at a time and my STI isn't my daily so its not a big deal. My car is currently making 670whp and 574wtq on E85. Biggest downside for me is how often I need to change my oil now which is something a lot of people don't talk about.
If you go with a built motor, request tighter clearances tighter ring gap components specifically designed for e85. That should help with ethanol getting past the rings prematurely contaminating the oil.
@@DJ_Driven We are going to be running 50psi of boost so we'll be using a little more ring gap.
gonna be in the same boat after its finished in the next few weeks... either of you guys know a way to check ethanol content of oil? or... are we just having change often to be safe? how often are you changing yours? every 3k religiously?
@@elmzsni I change mine ever 1200 mile. But mine is just a toy, not my daily. Also running oil made for ethonal fuels helps.
Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
I'm in the camp of it not being worth it, at least for now, because stations that carry it are to far and few in between to be worth the effort for me. The motor is being built now and will be capable of running E85 but I'm only tuning for 91 octane pump gas for now. It will also be my daily and used for doing cross country trips, so the fuel mileage loss is also not acceptable for that.
Great comment. Depending on how you use your car, E85 isn't always the best option for sure.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
My tuner told me cobb is just making sure future KIts have a carbon offset number. The kits will be back.
Definitely hope so. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Nice 👍 thanks for the video very informative. That being said received my Cobb flex fuel kit today for my 2018 wrx just waiting on aem in tank fuel pump and tuning here we go.
Had E85 tune in my mazdaspeed 3 also DIT totally transformed the car , the only hassle was measuring E85 gallons with 93 but the Cobb flex fuel kit makes it so much practical.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Great video ! Question…. I live in California and have a 2011 WRX. For the last 7 years I’ve been running E85 on ID1000 injectors. I never had to worry about smog check because I would get a hook up. As of July 2021, now California checks the tune on the car to make sure your running the OEM base map. Problem is, I was unable to run a stock tune because my car can’t run on the stock tune with ID1000 injectors, it would stumble….. so what I had to do was remove all my aftermarket parts and revert back to OEM , which was a huge PITA. I’m now trying to mod the car in such a way so I can easily switch between tunes and ensure I can simply unmarry and run the base map for smog…
Question is , injectors …..
I hate switching out injectors to run e85
What’s the smallest CC injector I can run that can effectively run E85 and also the base tune…..
currently I bought a set of DW565 injectors , which match the OEM flow rate, but I don’t think that gives me enough headroom to run E85 through a flex fuel kit…..
Any suggestions ?
Hope I didn’t ramble on ….
Current mods , AEM CAI , GS TMIC , Cat back exhaust . That’s it on a Cobb OTS map…. Which sucks btw
Any injector with higher flow than stock will have issues. The tuning difference is primarily in Injector scaling, which scales the fuel map based on how much flow your injectors have. There may be a workaround, but from what I know, you can't run bigger injectors on a stock tune.
Maybe get a dual injector fuel rail, and remove/unplug the larger injectors and resort back to OEM base map when needed to pass smog?
@@DJ_Driven this is the first I’ve heard of this . Crazy to think, but that sounds like it would work and be easy to deal with come smog check….. I’ll have to look more into this.
🤔 it seems it would be easier to move out of California or buy an electric car
@divad D The issue there is that you would then have issues because the Dual injector manifold removes the TGV system.
Trying to get them to move a station down to coosbay Oregon. The home of turbo sand rails on the dunes that are literally asking me every day where to get e85 here in town
E85 , user definitely the way to go also well worth the increase maintenance and fuel system upgrade. definitely worth the performance gain even without the flex fuel sensor. not my daily though so there's that. also like to go to Walmart once in awhile for things
Thanks for the comment and Stay Tuned!
Thank you for this video, perfect timing for me!
Glad we could help! Stay Tuned!
Unfortunately, where I am In oregon, e85 is not readily available. The only place you can get e-anything is in barrels and it's extremely expensive. 😞
It is definitely getting harder to find in some areas which is a shame.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I wish I would have bought a Cobb flex setup while I had the chance...
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I will be going on vacation for about a week. Do you think it will be fine if I have my car sit for that long with e85? Or should I plan to fill up 93 before I leave?
Thanks for the question. You should be fine to let your car sit that long. We have had our race car sit much longer than that with fuel and it hasn't caused any issues. It is certainly not ideal, but I'd say that 1 week should not cause any issues.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thanks!
I'm wondering how we can submit a question of the week? Thanks!
Thanks for the question. Just put it in the comments (as you did above) and we'll add it to the list!
Thanks for watching!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you! I don't know if you guys have already covered this, but I was wondering if you could talk more in depth about the power band and torque curve in racing. Where you want your power and what cam/turbo to choose. I'm looking at an EJ hybrid build using BC stage 3 cams, and Boost lab TD06-SL2 (GTX3071) turbo. I looked at his dyno, and there's not much power below 3500, but the power stays on, basically all the way up into redline. Other builds that I've seen, the power comes in earlier but tapers down significantly after around 5k. What would be the advantages to either set up?
@@Rynowhite14 That is a great question. I'll add it to the list and see what we can do!
This is a great segment, I've shared quite a few of these with my son who has a tuned Forester XT, he's been thinking about E85 too.
We both really enjoyed the radiator cap insights.
What do you guys think about using lapel mic's for these videos?
Very glad that they have helped. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
You guys think cobbs gonna get
The flex fuel kit CARC approved? .Man I hope so. It’s such a huge thing for my Subarus
Thanks for the comment. It would definitely be great if they can get that kind of approval for those kits.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Awesome video. I recently made the change to flex fuel. With the E85, I heard you need to make more frequent oil changes and you cant have it sit for long period of time and need to avoid short drives. Is that true?
Yes it is.
Thanks for the question. The short answer is yes. In a perfect world, you would want to change your oil about every 1,000 miles if you are running E85. Though if you are getting the car good and hot as you are driving it, etc., there may be less contamination of your oil. It really depends.
To know for sure, you would want to send oil samples out for analysis.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have been talking back and forth with my tuner about adding an Ethanol map to my 02 bug. I still have the 2.0 which is fully built and what I am told is completely maxed out in it's current state, unless I go to bigger injectors and Ethanol. I don't even know where to begin because I'm so old skool
Do it thank me later 🤣
I've been beyond happy with my flex fuel set up. I'm mix my own fuel with a % of Methanol and 99 fuel and have had zero issues. I was making 450hp before and now I'm on 500.5hp with the Meth. With the sensor it makes it so easy and safe. More power, better knock protection, and mixing my fuel with Meth makes it cheaper to run the car so it's win win win
all you really need is 1000cc injectors and a walbro 255 for e85 that's the minimum that you can do. I'm running that fuel set up on my bug but on my blob I have Id1700cc and a walbro 450 pump I say go for it.
My experience is on a setup like that with 1. Ej205 and 2. Relatively small turbo it's not worth the hassle that comes from e85. I'm talking about fuel filters, oil changes, mpg, the expense of setup and tuning and then the starting quality of e85. On a smaller airflow setup your really cranking the timing to get the power and thats hard on pistons and bearings. The turbo flow is limited not like you can say run 10 lbs more of boost cause you have a much bigger turbo and a closed deck block to be able handle it. Check my videos I did exactly that, e85 on a 20g and ended up lifting my heads then spit a shim trying to push a built 205
@@millerliteknight6230 what headstuds did you use?
Here in Australia e85 costs more than 98 (which is 93 in america) so very little reason to run e85 (unless you got money to burn)
That is interesting, but it makes sense. It would be amazing if they could find a better, more cost effective way to produce ethanol for sure.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Folks dumb question, they say avoid short distance driving on e85 but whats the minimum time that i can drive the car if not for, is 30mins enough to get the water out from the oil??? Appreciate all your inputs
Thanks for your question. 20 - 30 Min sounds right. The main thing is you want to get the oil and coolant up to operating temperature, which would typically happen in about 20 minutes of driving.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thanks much
I converted my car to E a few months back. Here in the springs it's cheaper than premium per mile. I wish I could have gotten the flex fuel kit but unfortunately cobb doesn't support flex-fuel for the 04 wrx.
Thanks for the comment. Take a look at Delicious Tuning as I believe they have a flex-fuel option for the 16 bit ECU's.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
You can use E without flex fuel?
@@thatsicksubiegt I have been since december of 21. I upgraded injectors and edited the tune to add more fuel. If I want to take a road trip I do need to empty my tank and flash a 91 map since the car won't automatically blend maps. I have many e85 stations near me so it's not a hassle to fill up.
Great video on E85! Quick question it seems everyone has different opinions on, when installing the e85 kit does it matter if it is on the feed side of the fuel system or the return side? I personally have mine on the return side but I’ve seen people make it work both ways. Thanks
Generally as a rule you never put anything on the feed side.
It does seem that installing the sensor on the return line is more common, but I'd always differ to the directions from the manufacturer of the kit you are using.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
First mod for me 🥳
Nice! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
penguintechracing and ibuildracecars still makes flex fuel kits.
Thanks for the information. Stay Tuned!
I just picked up a set of 565 sti denso injectors I can use these to be able to run e85 along with fuel pump etc
Thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
Hi can i convert my 2002 WRX to E85? Any direction would help thanks!
Thanks for your question. Yes, but your ECU can't switch between maps, so you just have to tune for that fuel.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Is it really necessary to switch to pump gas from e85 every so often?
Thanks for your question. It shouldn't be. Many people simply run E85 all the time.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Ok.. so if I get the Cobb flex fuel sensor kit and all the fuel mods I can get a tune and then use 91 if I can’t get e85 ? And it will tell the ecu that I have low ethanol and adjust the pro tune ?
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question.
Yes, that is correct. Once yoru Flex Fuel tune is working, you can have any percent of ethanol in your fuel, from zero (pump gas) up to the level that you were tuned for (80% - 85% most of the time).
The sensor will give the car enough information to adapt the mapping of the engine to match the percent of ethanol you have in your fuel.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Any recommendations for a decent priced e85 kit for a 02-04 Wrx ?
I have a built motor in my GD sti with an 18g turbo. Goal is 400 whp. I can do flex fuel sensor with e85 or go bigger turbo on pump gas (blouch dom). I do have e85 available in my area. Which is a better option?
Thanks for your question. I'm not sure that you could get close to 400 whp on an 18G even on E85. Heck, it is not a given on a 20G even.
I'd really say that you would be best to look at a larger turbo. Something like the Turbo Dynamics MDX-450 or Dom 1.5 which are both in the Garrett 3071 family.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
What spark plug will be good to run with e85 iridium 1 step or oem ?
Let’s say I have a build sti making 600’s whp on e85 and 420’s on pump gas
Thanks for your question. I'd say that 1 step colder should be good for both of those applications.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thanks for that
You should make a video of that man will be awesome since there’s no many answers online
Also what gap could be good ?
I’m running 30 psi on 600’s and 21 to 22 on 420’s ?
Would you think the aem flex fuel sensor universal work for an STI
Thanks for your question. That sensor will give you a reading, but I don't believe that it can be tied into your ECU to chance the tune in real time.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thanks for the feedback !
Anyone running E85 kit on a Stinger 3.3? Also, I presume these kits would be available for WRX, Si, Golf R maybe. Hyundai Elantra N. Does the E85 kit and running it, with the proper tune, damage OEM built engines?
We don't have any experience with that platform, but if it is high compression or especially direct injection, there would likely be some benefits for the conversion. There are definitely some key details to keep in mind when making the switch, but a larger injector and good tune are definitely key components for sure.
More frequent oil change intervals are another one as well.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have a flex fuel kit in my car, it uses the regular GM Continental style sensor. The adapter cable connects the ECU harness plug into the E85 sensor. I have an Innovate E85 gauge but without a 2nd E85 sensor I can't hook up because the gauge plug uses the same spot on the E85 sensor as the ecu cable. They both use the same plug end/spot on the E85 sensor. Do you guys know if I strip/depin the wires connecting the ECU plug into the E85 sensor and do the same for the Innovate gauge, then repin/merge them into single plug for the E85 sensor, that both the Innovate gauge and ECU can read from the same sensor?
Edit: just got a call from my Tuner JK tuning in Carlisle PA, he said you can Tee both them together
Check with iWire they may make a plug and play harness adapter. You definitely don't want to cut up factory wiring if you can avoid it.
@@DJ_Driven it's not factory wiring. The ECU harness comes through firewall and terminates at multiple plug ends. There is a cable that plugs into one of those plug ends and the other end plugs into the ethanol sensor. Then I would T into the plug going into the ethanol sensor
Sounds like you were able to get this sorted. Thanks for the comment and Stay Tuned!
love your videos, lots of great info...please get a new microphone lol
Love e85 you can really lean on a stock engine.
It is a great fuel, that is for sure. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I might be clueless but wouldn't methanol injection be more practical for most people looking for power from a daily driver? Is there a reason it isn't discussed more?
General consesus is those systems tend to be unreliable and it's not a matter of if but when a failure occurs and resulting engine damage. Hope that helps. They were all the rage before e85 came along
Yes, but need more methanol even larger injectors, and higher flow fuel system to handle it vs E85. A supplemental methanol injection system like snow performance for example would work best paired to a controller linked to the stock ECU monitoring flow sensors or even better a standalone ECU for greatest reliability.
basically alcohol based fuels are alcohol-based fuels problem but that you're adding extra complications to the fueling system. yeah nobody's going to warranty if it causes engine damage due to failure or empty. the best nothing else systems would have an integrated fail safe. which may or may not require a standalone ECU. The power gains aren't worth the risk over pump E85, If your using methanol for cooling ie not adjusting the tune to take advantage of the added fuel. you're probably not going to see the gaines you're looking for unless you live in a real hot climate.
Thanks for your question. We actually had a pretty in-depth conversation about this on one of our Podcasts. Here is a link to that:
ua-cam.com/video/K52E0NKWMcU/v-deo.html
There are some benefits to methanol injection, but there are a number of things you have to watch out for.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you!!!!
Cobb is going to lose a lot of customers with their “green initiative”. There are plenty of other companies that will step up and provide the products consumers in the car communities actually want. EV sustainability amongst other “green efforts” are a long long way out, if ever. I’ve yet to meet a car enthusiast whom has embraced some George jetson mobile as a means to motorsports.
Agree 100%
Cobb has also discontinued supporting any stage 2 ots maps