Like most people that watched this video I’ve been trying to do my research on Green Glue. Out of the plethora of videos I’ve watched, this is by far the most well done and informative. Thank you very much.
@@JackofAllMinistriesyou might check out butyl tape, it's usually used for sealing rear glass window assemblies on trucks, it also remains tacky and pliable indefinitely. (It's also cheap at $7 for a 50' roll) I haven't tested it yet but it seems like it would work well.
@@intensitydigital that’s a good point. I’ve used it before on my trailer, it definitely stays tacky. It’s similar to the putty pads that are used around electrical boxes for sound. The question is coverage I think. $7 is cheap, but how wide?
we don't live in a lab, we live in real life. your material was real-life tested. I love it! thank you for all your work and findings, I really appreciate this!!!
You are my hero! So many people in the audio community are absolute zealots of green glue, yet I've found the studies, reasoning, and PRICE of green glue to be really skeptical. And I'm really glad you found a good alternative. I knew there had to be something similar out there. There's no way that the physical properties of Green glue could be in any way totally unique. I'm gonna have to look at that other video though because I did find the rockwool vs r13 insulation VERY surprising
Thanks man! Just trying to ask the questions other people seem to be afraid to. Like you said, it’s doubtful someone would find magic goop that can do things nothing else can. Really, just good marketing I think. People are suckers for speciality. I was a little surprised by R13 as well, although I tested it because I had read it so many times. Seems like mass would be more beneficial but I just didn’t see it. Maybe it’s because Rockwool isn’t limp enough in the wall, I don’t know…
Thank you for this. I have been planning in my head a long term solution for a studio, and have wondered "is green glue REALLY that special?". This was excellent.
Using it in a tiny house on some walls, it's the double drywall that really makes the difference. On another wall I tried pure silicone between 5/8 sheets. No difference. Not surprised the results. Never thought of carpet glue! Adding either a false wall, better windows, coupling your studs to go 2x8 to put more insulation in. Much cheaper and effective options. Great video!
I’ve never tried silicone, but I’d wager it wouldn’t do much if anything to create constrained layer damping. The middle layer has to absorb vibration, and something that dries hard like silicone would just transfer it right on through. It’s interesting you mention a tiny house. My wife and I plan to build one in the next few years (or at least a tiny-ish house) and I never consider the noise impact of close quarters. Definitely given me something to think about. Appreciate your input, and I definitely agree that cost is a big factor, and your ideas are great!
@@JackofAllMinistriesSilicone caulk/sealant/glue doesn't dry hard. It stays flexible. That's the whole purpose of using it on areas around the house, particularly areas where dissimilar materials are joined, as they experience expansion/contraction at different rates. Have you ever tried Flex Seal liquid? It's basically liquid silicone rubber and it always stays flexible. I used it as paint/flooring liner for the bottom 4" of a huge bar I built 6 years ago (I used durable oil-based paint everywhere else), then I added a thin protective layer of LVP flooring (with attached cork underlayment) over the Flex Seal, as I have a kegerator, multiple beverage fridges, etc. inside of the bottom cabinets. I used the Flex Seal to prevent any damage to the cabinets from condensation, spills, leaks, etc., but it's flexibility also dampens the vibrations of the fridges and kegerator (also basically a fridge), with help from the waterproof LVP and cork, so they're all extremely quiet and don't vibrate the bar at all. Flex Seal is also pretty expensive, but I digress... the point is that there are a lot of other products that stay flexible over time besides just Green Glue. The real trick is always finding the product with the preferred qualities for each particular application, whatever that might be. Also, thanks for the video. 🤘
@@reaxions Thanks for the comment! It’s true that caulking and silicone is flexible, but there’s a difference between being flexible and being tacky. Green Glue stays more like thick snot over time, versus a dried rubber. Not that that means silicone won’t work for sound dampening, but it’s just a different category from Green Glue and would likely treat a significantly different enough frequency profile. In that case I wouldn’t really call it a substitute, but a completely different dampening approach. Maybe next time I do a materials experiment I’ll try out silicone between sheets and see what that does. I would bet that silicone and Flex Seal are stiff enough to transfer waves from one sheet to the next, but I wonder if the added mass and constrained layer damping would make up for it. Also, I have used Flex Seal Liquid before and I love that stuff. I used it in a camper renovation I did as grout (yep, whole backsplash with flex seal grout) and it was awesome!
Marine adhesive is supposed to be really good too (the kind used for carpet on boats). Thank you so much for this video. I'm doing MDF walls instead of drywall (for a literal ton of extra mass). Two layers of 3/4 MDF with a hefty layer of carpet glue in between. I'm excited to see how good the final results are.
It's called "Constrained Layer Dampening" and this definitely works. If the carpet glue stays elastic similar to the Green Glue then yes, it will work just as well, possibly better. Great video!
Dan, After seeing this and finding the product is out of stock at Lowes, I reached out to the company that makes it. They called me back! Bryen Bowering was very interested when I told him about your video. He was familiar with GreenGlue but had never heard TEC's product being used as an alternative. I emailed a link to your video. He said he would bring this up with other people in the company and see if they could maybe re-market their product toward the soundproofing industry. Thank you for your work to investigate - stay curious!
Just like to say I had a neighbour hoovering at 1am! I applied green glue between 2 acoustic sheets and it totally killed the sound. That was 5 years ago,and it gets betters through time. True story from the U.k,it’s like having a detached house now
So considerate!! I hope they dropped a bag of flour on the floor or something to be doing that! Then again, why would you be baking at 1am... At least now you have that GG helping out. It definitely serves it purpose, I just like the idea of it costing a little bit less.
Excellent video! Very methodical and informative. I've not found any information/manual that explicitly say to glue the second layer of gypsum board. Still searching.
Thanks so much! Here is a link to the install guide from Green Glue - should be what you’re looking for: www.greengluecompany.com/sites/hps-mac3-greenglue/files/2022-10/Green-Glue-Noiseproofing-Compound-Installation-Guide-O-1549.pdf
Even if Carpet glue was less performative than green glue (which it does not appear to be), it would still be the better choice given the $/STC value. Thank you so much for sharing. You just saved me a fortune for my future basement apartment.
I'm converting my garage and adding soundproofing. I'm using the lowest modulus (ie most flexible when set) silicon/PU I can find on ebay - £1 a tube for stuff that's going out of date soon, or crazy colours (bronze coloured silicon?!). I'm putting it between the studs and 1st board, and between the first and second board. I'll also fill gaps and around the perimeter on the first layer with it. I'll use intumescent fire/acoustic mastic (mine stays somewhat flexible) around the perimiter on the 2nd layer. It makes sense to me because the flexibility will help dampen shock/sound waves slightly. Concrete blocks can transmit sound very effectively in some circumstances (especially impact/flanking sound) and resonate because they are so hard. This extra, flexible layer should dampen those resonances. I'll be using a thick bead (cutting the nozzle big) and letting the silicon dry somewhat before putting the boards up with low pressure, so as not to squash the silicon too flat - it needs depth for the flexibility to work, the more the better - I'm hoping for maybe 5mm. I'm only doing this once, so I'll never know if it helped or not, but in my mind it will have! At about £2 per 8x4 sheet and only taking up 5mm of room space, I'm willing to give it a go. Coincidentally, an buyer came to pick something up from here the other day - his van showed he worked for a sound insulation company! He took a quick look at my garage and OK'd my soundproofing ideas. Unprompted, he specifically said to use Green Glue, even though it's not really stocked here in the UK unless you go to specialist online stores and pay silly money. I'm happy to go my similar but much cheaper route :)
I would be interested to see how that works. Most of your applications make sense to me, but I’m curious about sandwiching between the boards with it. I just wonder if the flexibility will have the same effect as a tacky layer for constrained layer damping.
Really interesting video. Finally someone actually took the effort to test all these things, instead of spouting opinion based on nothing! I know green glue has data to support their findings, and I don't believe they are falsifying claims. Testing in a lab is one thing, but doing some real world tests like you did yourself is another thing. I've used green glue myself sandwiched between two layers of drywall and it does do what it claims - but there is lots of skepticism about it and the heavy marketing campaign behind it. If you can get better results using carpet glue that's great! - I guess the real risk is that unless you have the time and patience to test the products you are using first, you could randomly pick the wrong type of carpet glue that doesn't have the viscoelastic properties and end up wasting time and money. I guess green glue might be a safer bet as there is data to back up their findings. Carpet glue has no such data to back it up, so there is always a risk it won't work unless you test it yourself first to confirm you've bought the right stuff!!
Amen to that! Although I hear Henry's is doing some testing on their carpet glue because they have heard about people using it in studios. I hope that doesn't mean they are going to remarket it and drive the cost up... Thanks so much for watching and for all of your encouragement!
Thanks for the video. Does carpet glue eventually dry though. Of it dries out and becomes brittle in 5 years, then it’s not really worth it. Just asking, I have no experience with it.
It depends on the brand you get. The one I ended up using I thought would stay tacky, but I have suspicions it has dried out. However, Robert’s 3095 (I believe that’s the number) will stay tacky long term. I know there are others too but I’m not sure which they are.
I still think if you are doubling drywall, using different thicknesses is going to far outweigh adhesive choice. Different thicknesses have different natural frequencies. High end window manufacturers use this method, adhering two different thicknesses of glass together. I think if I was starting from scratch I might put up 1/2" concrete tile backer or MDF and stick up 5/8 drywall with tile adhesive and screws. I also wonder about the idea of using old carpet and/or carpet padding rather than insulation in the voids.
I’ve been considering multiple sources as I consider a voice booth construction project. One of the VERY top end sources as been ACOUSTIC FIELDS. They have a long history of high-end builds (into the $100K- 2 Million levels). They & other High-Enders agree with your findings: it’s adhesive, but no magic in it to justify the cost. Even down on the level of my build, you’re better off using your $$ on better acoustic quality materials & treatments vs hoping G.G. will give you bang (…or “un-bang?…) for your buck.
Yep, I've spoken with Dennis Foley myself on the phone. He definitely knows his stuff! I think GG can be used in certain applications as part of an overall approach, but 99% of the time it just isn't worth it!
@@JackofAllMinistries Anybody who listens/considers/or has talked to Dennis Foley has my attention! Now to go binge your other audio content, sir! Thanks and God bless!
Thank you so much for the analysis! I did a project 7 years ago and used quiet pro glue, (2) 5/8" sheet rock, clay for the electrical outlets, sound proof windows and doors. I was extremely happy with the outcome, but dang was the quiet glue expensive and a pain to work with as I got the 5 gallon bucket with the refillable gun. After the project I wondered what could be substituted and never thought of carpet glue. Thanks again as I have a large project in the pipeline this spring, and this will save me time and money:)
My pleasure! Yeah, the cost is something I still can't wrap my mind around. Obviously they're still in business, but I can only imagine how many people skip it for the price. Hopefully you enjoy the results of the carpet glue just as much!
The value of constrained layer damping is also why laminated windows are used for studios. If you lightly tap the center of the window and it rings, it's not laminated. Laminated produces a dull thud and has a flatter transmission loss curve. I am amazed at the results you got in the low end where STC doesn't really tell the story.
@@RBBlackstone our windows were actually alternating panes, which meant the second layer of exterior glass was thinner than the interior, so when sound waves hits the first layer the transmission is reduced. We live about 800 ft from a busy highway and the noise does not come through.
@@functionalvanconversion4284 It's not only about transmission loss. A pane that rings can cause a loss in that ring area. You can feel the glass move. That said, I have mainly seen this in larger pro studios where the pane of glass can be huge.
@@JackofAllMinistries yes. But they swear they don't hear me, which I find hard to believe, especially after they offered to buy a couple of weeks ago. It's a sellers market. I'm here until the prices go down, lol.
@@kirbiejohnson4475 You may want to consider the two adjacent walls, floor and ceiling where they come together. There's something called "diffraction" or "flanking noise" where sound waves can move around objects, including walls. If there are cavities in the ceiling or floor, sound can travel around that way too. Or it could be impact noise, depending on what the sound is. Have you considered looking behind the drywall? May not be any help in the cavity between either. That really sucks, we used to live on the second floor of a three story apartment. We bothered the neighbors below, and we're constantly irritated by the neighbors above.
@@JackofAllMinistries it is the impact noise that I hear and I know it doesn't bother some ppl, but as this is supposed to be my retirement home, I want peace and quiet. My next solution is to build another wall and I'm praying for the next ppt next door too (prayer never hurts). Thank you JAOM for responding and please keep your channel going, all the other videos are either sponsored (and there's nothing wrong with that) or old. God Bless
@@kirbiejohnson4475 That's right! I don't know your relationship with the neighbors, but we're called to love our neighbors and enemies aren't we? I'd say prayer is a great way to do that!
Just FYi, Decibels scale is logarithmic, that means that an increase 3dB is a doubling in power (and is simultaneously about the smallest amount of change in volume that we can notice with our ears). For example 2 violins playing should be roughly 3dB louder than just one (assuming they are playing the same thing the same way..). A 9dB reduction from anything is absolute gold for someone trying to deaden a room... 48dB is OMG!!
@@JackofAllMinistries I am sure there must be people who can notice a change in volume of 1dB, this will vary depending on the frequency, and how loud it is at first (I dare say the experience of hearing something at 130dB(a Jet plane taking off) or the sound of a pin dropping on to a wooden floor are entirely different, but I believe the 3dB difference is a decent rule of thumb. The way our brains process sound, and the way we can glean information despite background noise, interference, delays due to distance etc, is stunning. Example; up to 90ms, if someone is speaking to you, their mouth will sync to their voice (in your head even though there is a definite delay) once they pass roughly 55 metres, their voice will suddenly become out of sync with the movement of their mouth)... this shows the 2n Visual cortex is syncronised with the audio cortex and something else, to guestimate the distance of the talker - amazing.
Interesting! I remember reading somewhere that Bell invented the dB measurement by finding the difference people could notice - but I’m no expert. It would make sense that it would be frequency dependent. Maybe it was based on a tone in the multiple k Hertz range. Thanks for all the info! I didn’t know that 90 ms became noticeable. I struggle sometimes to line up drums on my drum channel when editing because sometimes the minimum gap to move the file seems to be too much. I’ll bet the line on Resolve is about 100 ms then…
@@JackofAllMinistries Yes agree. 90ms works out at about 55metres (roughly). I do some DJing, and if the speakers are any more then even 5 metres away, you need a monitor, or you won't be to beat match because of the delay. Re the 1dB, thing I have heard that before, and the 3dB think I stated, it is only now I am confronted with contradiction, that I am considering it ... maybe I need a soundmeter. I know that when 2 violins play together, while I am aware of them playing, and notice the greater richness of the tones, I don't really sense it as much louder, I can just notice it, and that would be 3dB.. maybe the whole concept is subjective... there was a lady in Germany who had 5,000:20 sight meaning she could read a sign at about 5kms away that most people could not read at 25 metres.. amazing :) Thanks for your comment :)
Interesting vid,, I'll have to see your ither vid on testing GG vs the carpet glue hopefully you did a low frequency test because that is what its all about,, isolating the lows
Thanks for watching. If I remember, I didn’t do low frequency because you can’t do much for those with a thin layer of liquid. You need some serious mass to go low.
From my understanding the Roberts 3095 will. As for the TEC stuff I used, I think so but I don't know. I know there are glues that stay that way for decades. I have pulled up 80's carpet with tacky glue. It's hard to find info on that for some reason.
Great video. Truly one of the only videos that even considers alternatives to green glue in a logical manner. I would like to reduce the impact noise from the floor above me. What are your thoughts on using indoor/outdoor carpet glue between the existing two layers of sub-flooring above? Will that help reduce or even eliminate the impact sound due to walking, running, dropping items, etc?
Just a hypothesis here, but I would bet it would have a very small effect on impact noise. Decoupling is the best solution for impact noise - breaking the chain of contact with solid surfaces always has the best results for that
@@JackofAllMinistries Can decoupling be done from the floor of the apartment above or does it have to done from the ceiling of the apartment below? I am concerned about the costs as the units were freshly renovated.
Another great class !!! So my take away from this is that “Correct glue between the second drywall is a good thing, better than just 2 layers” does that sound correct?
If I'm reading that right, I think you're correct. Two sheets of drywall and green Glue is an improvement over just drywall, but carpet glue does just as well for much cheaper.
This is such a good video. Also watched your other test video you did with the bricks and the blue tooth speaker, very helpful, thank you. Just wondering what brand the carpet glue was - I’m in Mew Zealand, so I doubt we will have the same product but it would be a good start to be able to find something similar if you could let me know the brand, thanks dude!
Thanks so much! I’ve heard that the product I used is no longer being made. TEC I think was the name. Robert 3095 is the best product though after doing research. I doubt that’s in NZ either, but that may get you a start! You’re looking for a carpet glue that stays tacky over time and doesn’t harden. Good luck!
@@JackofAllMinistries awesome, thank you. I absolutely love your videos, you’re so clear and concise. Green glue is going to be the most expensive part of my build (almost twice the price of the drywall sheet itself) which I can’t really afford, so I’m on the hunt for the tacky carpet glue now. Thanks mate!
What was the active ingredient of the carpet glue? There's absolutely no way I'd be able to get it here in Aus, so i'd need an equivalent with the same stuff in it.
That’s a great question. First, I would say the better carpet adhesive to use is Robert’s 3095 rather than what I used. As far as I can tell, the base ingredient is naphthetic oil which derives from crude oil. That’s the best I can tell you. Sorry, I wish I had more info!
My local Menards carries TEC brand indoor outdoor adhesive, but it is not the blue labeled 'skill set' Like Lowes'. The blue label bucket says it is not rated for use with treated wood, where as the one Menards carries is. Don't know if you tried this variant (green labeled bucket) or not. Going to buy a small quart for testing and hope it has similar properties and results, as Lowe's is several cities over for me.
Sorry, I have no clue. If it helps, from what I've learned, the idea is to buy glue that will stay tacky. If it's really thin like pudding, it will likely dry rigid. If it's thicker, like frosting it'll probably be closer to the right thing. I'd just leave some smeared on some cardboard for a few days. If it's still flexible like chewing gum or even more flexible, you're probably where you need to be. For filling the gaps, I've only heard that flexible caulking is the stuff you want to use. Carpet glue might be okay, but I can't speak to it. Good luck!
Great video. I have a sound flanking issue with the neighbor above me in my condo. A loud squeaky sound penetrates through the side walls whenever she walks and it is unbearable. I started doing mass loaded vinyl between two layers of drywall, but am reconsidering and switching to this carpet adhesive instead of vinyl. Which do you think will out-perform?
That’s a good question. There’s kinda two sides to that equation from my understanding. One, mass is the best way to stop sound. Two, if it’s solid but flexible enough to move (as in vibrate) it can make the problem worse by transferring sound. If Rockwool isn’t used as limp mass and it’s too tight it can transfer sound better while fiberglass is soft enough to prevent transfer from drywall surface to drywall surface.
I’ve never been to the UK (although I’d really like to visit), so I can’t really speak to the product’s abilities. At first glance I would bet it wouldn’t work, since most general flooring glues don’t stay soft and tacky over time. You might have better luck with A499, but again, I’ve never used it. You may want to buy a little bit and test it to see how soft it stays over time. Good luck!
I haven’t tested that, but my hunch is that the rigidity of closed cell spray foam would actually aid in coupling surfaces which would increase impact noise and transfer sound. That may diminish the benefits of the added mass. Something I might consider testing in the future!
I used Roberts 3095 carpet glue and that stuff stays sticky for ever! just did a thin layer between my 2 sheets. didn't do any tests! so idk for sure what difference it made
Thankyou so much for this video. I'm putting two layers of 5/8 drywall over existing 1/2 drywall. I'm trying to lower the road noise in my room can't sleep just too much low noise from the road in front of my house. I've spent alot of sleepless nights reading forums and watching videos to try and get some relief. I'm starting the double layer this weekend but just can't seem to order the green glue because the price and just don't understand how silicone vault wouldn't do the same thing for way less. I need 40 tubes of green glue and that's more than all my other materials double layer 5/8. Thankyou for this video I'm going to get the carpet glue I door outdoor. Just curious if silicone caulk would be better it stays flexible. Thankyou
When I say flexible, I mean more like a liquid, not just stretchy. I'll bet silicone would work on some level, but when my other carpet glue dried in my experiment the numbers actually got worse. Silicone seems like it might be an in-between. One thing to consider is the frequency of the noise you're trying to block. Extra drywall and GG will help in the mids and highs, but if you have low frequency issues (garbage trucks, vibrating trunks, etc) the problem is much harder to stop. If you still want to do more research, you can check out my other video on studio building terms (ua-cam.com/video/cJ8Dszi7xEU/v-deo.html), and jump to the portions about "flanking noise" and "diffraction." These often come into play with road noise. You can also Google the term "constrained layer damping" to help understand the Green Glue concept a little bit more. Good luck with your project! Hope things get a lot quieter.
@@JackofAllMinistries I used the carpet glue worked like a champ can't hear anything through my walls. Thankyou soo much you saved me alot of money wasted on green glue.
Hi, so I had watched a video where green glue was used to soundproof a room. I wasn't looking to purchase any in the near future although I do plan to soundproof the basement. Today I was looking on Craigslist just to see what treasures I might find. I came across someone who had a bucket and a half of green glue that they were giving away. I watched your video, and decided that I wanted it. I emailed them, and got no response. Since it was close to where I live, I decided to just go to see if it was still available. Guess what...it was, and I got a bucket and a half for free! I scored big time! Thank you for your review, and comparison.
I’m not sure - I used it because I thought it would be similar to 3095 but in the end I’m not how the tackiness lasted. That’s the trick, is finding something that stays tacky long term.
@@JackofAllMinistries I used Roberts 1487 before, it's a hardwood glue. It stays sort of rubber-like after it dries but I'm not entirely sure it will be soft enough
I’m building a new home and want to create a significant sound reduction for that bedrooms. Is this the best approach and what about the safe-n-sound product?
Safe n sound products will definitely help. The best basic increase in my opinion is to use type-x 5/8” drywall instead of regular 1/2” and it’s even better if you use a double layer. Using solid core doors rather than hollow is important too. Soundproofing is a spectrum so the more quiet you want it to be, the more money you have to spend and I find that the returns are diminishing. You might find it helpful to check out this video too ua-cam.com/video/25K0BqtktB4/v-deo.html
I need some advice, how do I cut road noise? I don’t want to ripped out the existing wall since they look solid but I don’t have insulation? Will an MLV help reduce low frequency noise from the outside or should I just go with another layer of 5/8 with carpet glue on it?
I really can’t tell you for sure, but I would think another layer of drywall would be more cost effective, especially if the plan for MLV is not to hang it limply. However, I would suspect that road noise is likely leaking in through flanking. Maybe through a door, window, or something like that
The problem with silicone is that it dries solid. The thing about constrained layer dampening is that the middle layer has to be kinda fluid to prevent vibrational transfer. Silicone will dampen some, but it won’t do as well as Green Glue or carpet glue.
One of the things that Green Glue does is that it helps to create a small air barrier between the sheets of sheetrock. Air gaps are more effective at reducing sound transmission than other physical products. It's one of the reasons why a properly-installed resilient wall is so effective.
I’ve heard a lot of people say that, but I cant find any documentation that states that. You don’t happen to know of a source, do you? Everything I’ve read states it works by constrained layer damping, which seems to suggest they want the air gaps to be minimized. I’m curious because if air gaps are the goal (like rez channel), then I would think more minimal surface contact would be better because anywhere GG makes contact with a surface it’s not doing its job. In that case I would think thin beads of striped silicone would be better.
@@JackofAllMinistries You need different solutions because no single solution will prevent sound transmission at all frequency levels. I don't have a white paper to hand you. I'm thinking about it from a physics perspective. Imagine that we're standing 3 feet from each other, and I want to punch you. You're just far enough away that I'd be punching air. But if I put the end of a 2x4 against your chest and I hit the other end of it, you'd feel it. That's basically how the studs in your wall work when sound waves hit the sheetrock: sound energy travels more effectively through a physical medium, especially at lower frequencies. A resonating wall will have a harder time moving another parallel wall if there is air between them, but if you were to connect them somehow, then that would function as a piston. A resilient wall works by creating an air gap while using as little material as possible to prevent a piston effect. You can mitigate sound with CLD, resilient walls, Rockwool, etc... but it will ultimately come down to an effective combination of different solutions for your use case.
@betaomega04 For sure, I understand the impact noise side of air gaps, and there are certainly a lot of people who have said the same thing. But if that’s what Green Glue is trying to accomplish, it seems everywhere it exists between the sheets, it’s connecting those surfaces together. I’m not sure there is enough of an air gap there. I mean, maybe a 16th of an inch and only where the GG is not applied. So why not use silicone beads in strips that create more air gaps?
Even if there are air gaps they are too small to provide any type of sound dampening effect, in fact any small air gaps may cause frequency resonance. 'Constrained layer dampened' drywall is able to flex when the sound hits it, that's where the additional transmission loss is gained.
Sounds like a format of isolation by giving the two sheets of drywall some spacing with a flexible give. Honestly I wonder if it's just as good when you encase the sheets in a thin layed out pattern of rubber gaskets. Certainly be really cheap to do.
That's a great thought! I can't imagine that any substance is really creating some kind of all encompassing membrane in between. I'd be interested in testing to see if a rubber gasket air gap performs as well as the glue.
@@JackofAllMinistries right?! The sheet rock are basically just mass. I mean they already have the thin metal strap that sits between two walls. Add a layer of seamless 6mm poly (assuming you care about moisture trapping) to block out any air gap and I wonder if just as good as stuff like quietrock. I am doing a few walls between the bedrooms and gonna see how they turn out.
@@Lughnerson tar paper is just paper with tar impregnated. It isn't actually gooey pure tar. It's still very stiff compared to a gasket situation. Which would also have a bit of space to decouple the walls. But I suppose it never hurts to try.
The mentioned carpet adhesive is unavailable at Lowe’s. It appears Menards has it available but unsure if it’s the exact same product. Has anyone tried to obtain this product recently? If you were successful, where did you find it?
Looks like you’re right. I would recommend trying to get your hands on Roberts 3095 which I believe is at Home Depot if possible - it’s one I know stays tacky over time.
I want to make soundproofing plugs to fit into doorways. Can I use carpet glue or silicone between thin sheets of plywood or other thin board material or will it only work with drywall?
I believe the principle that GG works in is called "constrained layer damping." You can look it up here: www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing_101/comp-how-does-constrained-layer-damping-work The idea is to have layers with different densities to encourage dampening. However, you don't want to use too much because part of a panels ability to dampen comes from its ability to flex in sympathy with the sound waves. Less is more in that regard.
Great video!! What about the long term drying of this Lowes substitute? Will it still be tacky 10 years from now? Most carpet glues might still be tacky, but will this particular brand still work years down the road?
That’s a good question. I went with TEC because I read that it stayed tacky and it seemed to while it sat in my garage. However, the sound proofing ability of my room has diminished noticeably. Not terrible, but you can tell. I haven’t actually measured again. I know seasonal shifting of my house has happened, so gaps and cracks could be anywhere - just not visible. That shifting did change my door seals, which I adjusted again and most of the issue went away. However, I think it’s still a little leakier than before. I’m wondering if the glue is no longer creating constrained layer damping because it’s rigid…
@@JackofAllMinistries With all these posts/replies some of the message may be getting lost. Are you saying because of the decrease in sound deadening with the TEC product you are now recommending Roberts 3095? TIA
@@oomfh I guess I’m saying I’m now suspicious that is the case. I can’t say for certain that TEC will stay tacky long term like I initially believed. I suppose the best way for me to find out is to build a sample to test it. I am confident the Robert’s does stay tacky though.
@@JackofAllMinistries Thx for the reply. In my case, I’m adding sound proofing to a downstairs apartment (two layers of 5/8” Gold Bond Fire Shield). Spoke with Robertson tech support this a.m.. They are aware of 3095 being used for sound deadening and are currently conducting further research. Takeaways: (1) the product stays tacky indefinitely (2) As for health hazards - it is designed for interior use only. 🤞
@@oomfhI hope they finish their research soon - it might give Green Glue a reason to lower their prices. On the other hand, it might just give Robert’s a reason to raise theirs!
How about a thin sheet of rubber between the drywall sheets? Surely something like that is available on a roll to provide cushioning / gap with some density too… what do you think?
I think that would be great! I think Mass Loaded Vinyl was invented because it’s cheaper than rubber. It’s all about mass and rubber is good for that - so long as it’s dense and not porous. I actually thing loosely hanging it behind the drywall would be better because you get the limp mass benefit but it would be helpful either way I think. I wonder why no one has made a product like that out of recycled tires…
spent weeks watching all the tutorials online read the directions on the bottle closely and worked very hard trying to soundproof my condo. In conclusion, the difference I heard before and after green glue was very minimal. In my opinion it is definitely a bit of bullshit.
Through all of this, I have learned that soundproofing is very difficult, everything you try gives way less of a result than you hoped, and the process costs a lot of money. I think Green Glue works as part of a bigger picture approach to soundproofing, but it just costs so much.
Did you seal around all of your electrical boxes with putty? Did you use the green glue sealant at the drywall seams and where the walls meet? Any leakage there will kill the effort.
How long does it take to start working ? I’m also trying to sound proof a condo wall because of the neighbors tv. I already had the the original wLk …. I spent so much by buying the 440 sound barrier boards (installed on existing with the green glue) then a quarter inch drywall (with the green glue) . It was just done this week but I hear nooo difference. On a 16x8 foot wall I used 12 bottles of green glue!
fun fact. I actually called Roberts tech support and they said they are fully aware of it's use for drywall and are planning to do testing and release that info to the public. hopefully that'll finally shut up the nay sayers once and for all
Wow, that's awesome! If I put together a follow up video I'll have to use Roberts 3095 specifically. Might change the soundproofing world forever by saving people big money.
@@CoopAssembly when I called up Roberts they specifically told me that 3095 has the acoustic properties when used on drywall and they're doing tests on it specifically. so I would be weary of using anything else. a test would be okay. but I would not want to gamble on using the outdoor stuff when 3095 is tried and true
@@levijessegonzalez3629 Right. I noticed on the literature for 3095, "SBR Latex high solids latex-based adhesive", and on 6700, "SBR Latex solvent-free adhesive". Perhaps that branches significantly in the PSA technology.
I’m currently working on a project in my 336 sq ft utility shed. green glue method was gonna cost me around $1500. I’m definitely gonna try the carpet glue instead so thanks a lot. My question is how do I apply it? How much per 4x8 drywall sheet?
I just tried to use the same amount of glue as I would have for green glue - so that’s about 32 oz per doubled 4x8 sheet. So an 8x8 wall would have 64 oz between sheets, and another 64 oz if you’re doing drywall on both sides. I just kind of opened the lid and dabbed it all around, but I think using a notched trowel might be more even.
@@PearlLaneTV Pretty solid. I believe if you check out the 4th video of my studio build series on my channel I went through and tested different areas of my house before and after so you can see.
Thank you for the video. Super helpful! I'm in Australia, and we don't have the carpet glue product you mentioned. I found one that is a carpet tile adhesive that says it remains tacky for relaying tiles. From your experience, do you think this would work? Would I spread it out evenly the way you did, or the way the green glue application is recommended? Thanks :)
I ended up just spreading it from the jar. Kinda just tapping it out in rows. You can see it in one of my videos,!i just can’t remember which one. The trowel method was a little too time consuming and I figured it worked for green Glue… so far no regrets! Hope it works out well for you!
Only for its effect on impact noise. I used it in my studio and it seems to be fairly effective although far from perfect. I should also note that I didn't use the special clips that they say to use.
Great video. It seems the high production values have promoted some people to respond as if this is your full time job when, from the views you've had so far, I doubt (yet). I wonder how the carpet adhesive performs over time. I just had to disassemble a room in a room I built 4 years ago using green glue, and can confirm it was still very tacky, similar to the carpet adhesive in your video after one day. Perhaps the carpet adhesive could dry completely in a couple of years?
If people think this is my full-time job, I'll take that as a compliment! I assure you, it's not LOL I'm glad to have confirmation that it stays tacky, even after 4 years. I know at least some carpet glue stays tacky. I pulled some up last year that was tacky and it was put in at least 10 years prior. However, I have also pulled up some crumbly stuff. I believe the Roberts 3095 will stay that way.
That would be interesting to see! I know this, every time you add layer of sheetrock you only get 50% of the performance of the previous sheet. So if 1 sheet did 20db, second sheet does 10db, third does 5db, fourth does 2.5db and so on. Eventually you're shrinking your room by 5/8ths of an inch with virtually no return. For the glues, I don't think there would be much difference because typically you switch materials because they perform differently at different frequencies. I don't think carpet glue/GG have very different performance profiles so I don't know if it would be different than just doing 2 layers of GG or 2 layers of carpet glue. I could definitely be wrong though, and having both sure wouldn't hurt anything.
I am curious, since I know you ran some tests on this but have you tested the 5/8 drywall with Green glue vs 5/8 with the carpet glue after 30 days of cure time? I know GG says that when you get best results I'm just curious how true that is and if carpet glue you used still hold sup better after that 30 days. Thanks!
I did but I didn’t write anything down. It was way later (like 30 days obviously) so I didn’t film anything. I don’t remember exactly but I thought the differences were pretty negligible.
The best one I know of is Robert’s 3095. You can get it on Amazon or Home Depot usually. I actually wouldn’t use the one I did because I think it lost its tackiness.
Okay, there's so many different brands and numbers for carpet glue. 700, 702, 722, Roberts, Tec.....Which one?? I'm going to add a layer of 5/8 drywall to a bathroom wall. Thanks.
The tried and true carpet glue is Robert’s 3095. That is the only one I would be willing to speak about with any confidence. I’m not even sure about the TEC I used in mine…
It was TEC Indoor/Outdoor carpet adhesive, but I am now hesitant about its performance. I’m not sure it has actually stayed tacky over time. Robert’s 3095 (I think that’s the number) is the tried and true product, but I don’t think Lowes sells it. I think you have to go to Home Depot or the internet for that one.
I thought green glue or any glue is supposed to be applied in lines not troweled on. So if you did your carpet glue and made lines would it even be more effective because you need the air gap to help kill the sound right?
To my knowledge, the application isn’t meant to create air gaps, but rather to make it as evenly spread as possible. Reason being your trying to implement constrained layer damping. I did a quick Google search to see if air can be used as a constrained layer but I couldn’t find any articles about it. I think it has to be a liquid or solid, but I could be wrong.
That will help a little with impact noise, but you'd be better off with something like UltraTouch+ Sound Absorption Strips ( www.menards.com/main/p-1469640401911.htm) or you could try carpet/carpet padding on the studs. The reason glue between sheets of drywall helps is because of something called "constrained layer damping." The fact that there are two layers separated by another layer of a different density allows this to happen. The studs aren't really a part of the overall flexible surface barrier, but play a huge role in impact noise because they are part of the stiff structure. I hope that makes sense.
You can't find it for that anymore - or at least I can't. That price was pretty much steady for a long time, even through most of the pandemic. Now $19 is pretty much the deal.
Great question! These were the actual prices at my local Lowe's/Menard's at the time of filming. This was around September 2021. If you head to tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber you can track lumber prices over the last couple of years. You can see that COVID lumber prices peaked around May 2021 and quickly bottomed out around July. They then stayed fairly low until late fall/early winter. At the time of filming prices had returned to a fairly normal pre-COVID point so I figured/hoped they would stabilize. I had no idea inflation would become the issue it is now. The ratios are still kinda close though because although lumber has climbed, Green Glue is currently priced at almost $20 per tube, up about 15%.
@@JackofAllMinistries sure but bathroom is ok right? since it's already tiled and in a way applied as a line, imagine that a drywall would prevent the fire goes to the structure, but the enemy is behind the lines, and massive amount of it, just close to the structure.
@@Tinnitussss True, but silicones ignition temperature is almost twice that of wood. I think it’s like 800 degrees to ignite it, so your framing would burn far sooner than silicone.
I saw your video suggesting the indoor/outdoor carpet glue. Tried that. Seems okay. I paid ~$40 (cdn) for a small pale of Roberts at the local Home Despot, which covered about 3.5 sheets of 4x8 drywall. That's still way less vs GreenScrew, which would have cost ~$175. The carpet glue maintained a okay elasticity when cured. Wont be surprised if it turns into powder in 20yrs, granted a long time. Anyways... came across the Bona R851 floor glue. Actually bought a pale of this for laying my floors. It's highly elastic, designed to accommodate wood movement, so really what you want when sandwiching materials for sound mitigation/isolation. The guy claims it has an 69 STC (I call bullshit), but regardless, I expect it works as well as GreenScrew. ua-cam.com/video/-WNYv4n4QNI/v-deo.html
Wow, I'm going to have to try that Bona r851. To me, the whole thing is that any stuff can only perform so well. I mean, in a world where density is king, we're leaning on putty. If it's cheap, any help is great, but like you said, Green Glue is just so stinking expensive. And yeah, 69 STC is only happening if they forgot to mention they added concrete in the mix...
That would be interesting. I'm a little bit skeptical because they're lightweight and made from wood fiber, but I'd love to give it a shot. I wonder if it's a lot different from that fiberboard insulation you can get from Lowes or Home Depot.
@@JackofAllMinistries ya I'm not sure, I have a few Sheets of Sonopan myself. I think I'm going to use MLV as I have a very interesting Sound proofing dilemma with limited space.
@@peter5648 No, I actually only heard of it last week for the first time. The real question for me is whether it's worth it to do Sonopan, or just add another layer of drywall at 1/5th the cost.
I argued with a client about 3 music studios he wanted me to build.. He heard on the grape vine about green glue and wanted it all over his walls.. I said you'd be far better off spending the money on mass loaded vinyl rolls and using intumescent sealant instead of the green glue.. Never have I been convinced the stuff is even remotely worth the price tag.. Kinda reminds me of the foam panels for extortionate prices on amazon and the likes that do about the same job as hanging up a few bed sheets in there place.. Needless to say, I ended up putting over 3 grands worth of green glue on the studio walls very reluctantly.. Not my money after all but I was just pissed because I knew it could be done more effectively for less..
That would be so frustrating. I know that every industry includes products that charge more for a brand versus ingredients - shampoo, toothpaste, paint, whatever. But I feel like Green Glue is especially bad because of the cost and the fact that they prey on people that don’t know better.
@@JackofAllMinistries Absolutely.. No problems paying a fair price for stuff that works, but green glue is snake oil 100%... Come to think of it, another alternative similar to the carpet glue you mentioned is contact adhesive.. Might even be carpet glue under its orginal name.. I left a tub of the contact adhesive open for a month by accident, The solvent had completely evaporated and all that was left was a rubbery goo.. I know you can buy it in painters cans of the stuff.. Its most well known name is UHU glue.
That’s usually true, but some brands will stay tacky. The challenge is figuring out which one will. I’m about 60% the one I used has mostly dried out. I plan to make a sample that I can keep checking in the future. However, Roberts has one (1095 I believe) that stays tacky, and I have pulled up carpet before - even as old as the 80s - where the glue is still tacky. Of course, I couldn’t tell you what brand they were and couldn’t guarantee that they will always stay tacky or that they even exist anymore.
Why not use rolled rubber sheets? It's an 1/8" thick, so you can tack it up before your drywall and the screws will end up holding up both. Why? Because I've done it! No question to me that I made the correct decision!!
The problem with silicone is that it’s just rigid enough to transfer vibrations. It needs to either be tacky enough to absorb, or sense enough to not vibrate.
I admit I’ve never actually used vinyl caulking, but I assume that like most caulking it dries hard. It may be flexible, but it would still be hard. Green Glue is actually not an adhesive at all - it’s more like slime. Green Glue stays tacky between drywall and that’s what gives it a little “boost.” What we’re going for here is called constrained layer damping, or layers of differing mass being sandwiched together. For that reason, any combo of different materials is helpful, but drywall to gummy glue and back to drywall is better than drywall to stiffened caulk to drywall. Hope this helps!
@@JackofAllMinistriesi need to soundproof an already dry walled garage that im sealing off to make a studio out of. what do you recommend? could i add vinyl to the existing drywall then a 2nd drywall and be done or should i look into double wall something?
@@FlankinspanK There are a lot of components and variables, but I’ll give you a general idea of what I would do. If it’s soundproofing you’re looking for,I recommend building a room within a room. This prevents contact between hard surfaces like framing which prevents impact noise/transmission. Using solid lumber helps too because it’s less likely to flex. 2x8s are usually the minimum recommended, but I think most studios use 2x12. That gets pretty expensive though. For the inside portion I’d go with MLV, and two layers of something. They say plywood sounds the best, but you could probably save money doing 2 layers of 5/8” type x drywall with a 1/4” layer of plywood on top. Between layers I would use Roberts 3095 carpet glue because it stays tacky and is far less expensive than Green Glue. Now I realize that’s an expensive project. You may not want to do each of those things and I totally understand that. Keep in mind each thing you remove makes your sound proofing a little less effective. Just remember, soundproofing is all about 3 things: decoupling, air sealing and MASS. Hope that helps a little bit.
Like most people that watched this video I’ve been trying to do my research on Green Glue. Out of the plethora of videos I’ve watched, this is by far the most well done and informative. Thank you very much.
It's my pleasure! I understand that struggle too well, that's why I wanted to make this video!
Same man, probably just saved me 300 dollars. Thank you, take my subscription.
@@JackofAllMinistriesyou might check out butyl tape, it's usually used for sealing rear glass window assemblies on trucks, it also remains tacky and pliable indefinitely. (It's also cheap at $7 for a 50' roll) I haven't tested it yet but it seems like it would work well.
@@intensitydigital that’s a good point. I’ve used it before on my trailer, it definitely stays tacky. It’s similar to the putty pads that are used around electrical boxes for sound. The question is coverage I think. $7 is cheap, but how wide?
we don't live in a lab, we live in real life. your material was real-life tested. I love it! thank you for all your work and findings, I really appreciate this!!!
Thanks so much! I get why we have labs, but sometimes we just need a little practicality. Thanks for watching!
You are my hero! So many people in the audio community are absolute zealots of green glue, yet I've found the studies, reasoning, and PRICE of green glue to be really skeptical.
And I'm really glad you found a good alternative. I knew there had to be something similar out there. There's no way that the physical properties of Green glue could be in any way totally unique.
I'm gonna have to look at that other video though because I did find the rockwool vs r13 insulation VERY surprising
Thanks man! Just trying to ask the questions other people seem to be afraid to. Like you said, it’s doubtful someone would find magic goop that can do things nothing else can. Really, just good marketing I think. People are suckers for speciality.
I was a little surprised by R13 as well, although I tested it because I had read it so many times. Seems like mass would be more beneficial but I just didn’t see it. Maybe it’s because Rockwool isn’t limp enough in the wall, I don’t know…
@@JackofAllMinistries What was the R value of the rockwool?
@@javanpohl3036 I can’t find it anywhere on their website, but other sources say anything from 3.5 to 11.
Thank you for this. I have been planning in my head a long term solution for a studio, and have wondered "is green glue REALLY that special?". This was excellent.
My pleasure! I asked that question for quite a while and finally figured I just needed to test it out! Thanks so much for the compliment
Using it in a tiny house on some walls, it's the double drywall that really makes the difference. On another wall I tried pure silicone between 5/8 sheets. No difference. Not surprised the results. Never thought of carpet glue!
Adding either a false wall, better windows, coupling your studs to go 2x8 to put more insulation in. Much cheaper and effective options.
Great video!
I’ve never tried silicone, but I’d wager it wouldn’t do much if anything to create constrained layer damping. The middle layer has to absorb vibration, and something that dries hard like silicone would just transfer it right on through.
It’s interesting you mention a tiny house. My wife and I plan to build one in the next few years (or at least a tiny-ish house) and I never consider the noise impact of close quarters. Definitely given me something to think about. Appreciate your input, and I definitely agree that cost is a big factor, and your ideas are great!
@@JackofAllMinistriesSilicone caulk/sealant/glue doesn't dry hard. It stays flexible. That's the whole purpose of using it on areas around the house, particularly areas where dissimilar materials are joined, as they experience expansion/contraction at different rates. Have you ever tried Flex Seal liquid? It's basically liquid silicone rubber and it always stays flexible. I used it as paint/flooring liner for the bottom 4" of a huge bar I built 6 years ago (I used durable oil-based paint everywhere else), then I added a thin protective layer of LVP flooring (with attached cork underlayment) over the Flex Seal, as I have a kegerator, multiple beverage fridges, etc. inside of the bottom cabinets. I used the Flex Seal to prevent any damage to the cabinets from condensation, spills, leaks, etc., but it's flexibility also dampens the vibrations of the fridges and kegerator (also basically a fridge), with help from the waterproof LVP and cork, so they're all extremely quiet and don't vibrate the bar at all. Flex Seal is also pretty expensive, but I digress... the point is that there are a lot of other products that stay flexible over time besides just Green Glue. The real trick is always finding the product with the preferred qualities for each particular application, whatever that might be. Also, thanks for the video. 🤘
@@reaxions Thanks for the comment!
It’s true that caulking and silicone is flexible, but there’s a difference between being flexible and being tacky. Green Glue stays more like thick snot over time, versus a dried rubber. Not that that means silicone won’t work for sound dampening, but it’s just a different category from Green Glue and would likely treat a significantly different enough frequency profile. In that case I wouldn’t really call it a substitute, but a completely different dampening approach.
Maybe next time I do a materials experiment I’ll try out silicone between sheets and see what that does. I would bet that silicone and Flex Seal are stiff enough to transfer waves from one sheet to the next, but I wonder if the added mass and constrained layer damping would make up for it.
Also, I have used Flex Seal Liquid before and I love that stuff. I used it in a camper renovation I did as grout (yep, whole backsplash with flex seal grout) and it was awesome!
Best video I’ve found so far on green glue, thanks
Thanks so much for the compliment! Honestly, I'm surprised more people haven't made videos about it!
Marine adhesive is supposed to be really good too (the kind used for carpet on boats). Thank you so much for this video. I'm doing MDF walls instead of drywall (for a literal ton of extra mass). Two layers of 3/4 MDF with a hefty layer of carpet glue in between. I'm excited to see how good the final results are.
Wow, yeah that will be heavy! I’d love to hear how it goes. I’d have to look into marine adhesive - sounds really promising!
Update?
Really interesting idea, MDF walls.
@@PNWLiving1725 unfortunately no update. The room is insulated and I have some of the MDF up on the ceiling.
Would love an update as well
It's called "Constrained Layer Dampening" and this definitely works. If the carpet glue stays elastic similar to the Green Glue then yes, it will work just as well, possibly better. Great video!
Thanks so much! Appreciate the reinforcement.
Dan,
After seeing this and finding the product is out of stock at Lowes, I reached out to the company that makes it. They called me back! Bryen Bowering was very interested when I told him about your video. He was familiar with GreenGlue but had never heard TEC's product being used as an alternative. I emailed a link to your video. He said he would bring this up with other people in the company and see if they could maybe re-market their product toward the soundproofing industry. Thank you for your work to investigate - stay curious!
Oh wow, that’s amazing! Thanks so much for doing that. I hope they do market something so we can be a part of something good for the industry!
Just like to say I had a neighbour hoovering at 1am! I applied green glue between 2 acoustic sheets and it totally killed the sound. That was 5 years ago,and it gets betters through time. True story from the U.k,it’s like having a detached house now
So considerate!! I hope they dropped a bag of flour on the floor or something to be doing that! Then again, why would you be baking at 1am... At least now you have that GG helping out. It definitely serves it purpose, I just like the idea of it costing a little bit less.
hey man, did you do the ceiling or just the wall?
@@sillywabbit Hi,just the walls
What are acoustic sheets?
You want to use pressure sensitive flooring glue regular carpet glue will crystallize over time
Thanks for the insight!
Excellent video! Very methodical and informative. I've not found any information/manual that explicitly say to glue the second layer of gypsum board. Still searching.
Thanks so much! Here is a link to the install guide from Green Glue - should be what you’re looking for: www.greengluecompany.com/sites/hps-mac3-greenglue/files/2022-10/Green-Glue-Noiseproofing-Compound-Installation-Guide-O-1549.pdf
Even if Carpet glue was less performative than green glue (which it does not appear to be), it would still be the better choice given the $/STC value. Thank you so much for sharing. You just saved me a fortune for my future basement apartment.
So glad I could help!! When it comes to this kind of stuff those savings really add up
I'm converting my garage and adding soundproofing. I'm using the lowest modulus (ie most flexible when set) silicon/PU I can find on ebay - £1 a tube for stuff that's going out of date soon, or crazy colours (bronze coloured silicon?!). I'm putting it between the studs and 1st board, and between the first and second board. I'll also fill gaps and around the perimeter on the first layer with it. I'll use intumescent fire/acoustic mastic (mine stays somewhat flexible) around the perimiter on the 2nd layer.
It makes sense to me because the flexibility will help dampen shock/sound waves slightly. Concrete blocks can transmit sound very effectively in some circumstances (especially impact/flanking sound) and resonate because they are so hard. This extra, flexible layer should dampen those resonances.
I'll be using a thick bead (cutting the nozzle big) and letting the silicon dry somewhat before putting the boards up with low pressure, so as not to squash the silicon too flat - it needs depth for the flexibility to work, the more the better - I'm hoping for maybe 5mm. I'm only doing this once, so I'll never know if it helped or not, but in my mind it will have! At about £2 per 8x4 sheet and only taking up 5mm of room space, I'm willing to give it a go.
Coincidentally, an buyer came to pick something up from here the other day - his van showed he worked for a sound insulation company! He took a quick look at my garage and OK'd my soundproofing ideas. Unprompted, he specifically said to use Green Glue, even though it's not really stocked here in the UK unless you go to specialist online stores and pay silly money. I'm happy to go my similar but much cheaper route :)
I would be interested to see how that works. Most of your applications make sense to me, but I’m curious about sandwiching between the boards with it. I just wonder if the flexibility will have the same effect as a tacky layer for constrained layer damping.
Really interesting video. Finally someone actually took the effort to test all these things, instead of spouting opinion based on nothing! I know green glue has data to support their findings, and I don't believe they are falsifying claims. Testing in a lab is one thing, but doing some real world tests like you did yourself is another thing. I've used green glue myself sandwiched between two layers of drywall and it does do what it claims - but there is lots of skepticism about it and the heavy marketing campaign behind it. If you can get better results using carpet glue that's great! - I guess the real risk is that unless you have the time and patience to test the products you are using first, you could randomly pick the wrong type of carpet glue that doesn't have the viscoelastic properties and end up wasting time and money. I guess green glue might be a safer bet as there is data to back up their findings. Carpet glue has no such data to back it up, so there is always a risk it won't work unless you test it yourself first to confirm you've bought the right stuff!!
Amen to that! Although I hear Henry's is doing some testing on their carpet glue because they have heard about people using it in studios. I hope that doesn't mean they are going to remarket it and drive the cost up...
Thanks so much for watching and for all of your encouragement!
@@JackofAllMinistries Haha - yeah that’s true, if you stick the words ‘soundproof’ on something you know it triples the price, right?
@@benjaminpeternorris EXACTLY!! Makes me think I need to start a soundproofing company...
Thank you for taking time to record this video!
My pleasure!!
Thank you! Awesome video...thick carpet glue it is!
Glad it was helpful! Enjoy the savings lol!
Thanks for the video. Does carpet glue eventually dry though. Of it dries out and becomes brittle in 5 years, then it’s not really worth it. Just asking, I have no experience with it.
It depends on the brand you get. The one I ended up using I thought would stay tacky, but I have suspicions it has dried out. However, Robert’s 3095 (I believe that’s the number) will stay tacky long term. I know there are others too but I’m not sure which they are.
im so impressed by your diligence in performing these tests. thank u very much for the information that youre sharing
Thanks so much for the compliment! It’s my pleasure to share what I’ve been learning…
I still think if you are doubling drywall, using different thicknesses is going to far outweigh adhesive choice. Different thicknesses have different natural frequencies. High end window manufacturers use this method, adhering two different thicknesses of glass together.
I think if I was starting from scratch I might put up 1/2" concrete tile backer or MDF and stick up 5/8 drywall with tile adhesive and screws.
I also wonder about the idea of using old carpet and/or carpet padding rather than insulation in the voids.
I fully agree about the adhesive. I’m confident all that matters is long term flexibility as far as that goes.
I’ve been considering multiple sources as I consider a voice booth construction project. One of the VERY top end sources as been ACOUSTIC FIELDS. They have a long history of high-end builds (into the $100K- 2 Million levels). They & other High-Enders agree with your findings: it’s adhesive, but no magic in it to justify the cost. Even down on the level of my build, you’re better off using your $$ on better acoustic quality materials & treatments vs hoping G.G. will give you bang (…or “un-bang?…) for your buck.
Yep, I've spoken with Dennis Foley myself on the phone. He definitely knows his stuff! I think GG can be used in certain applications as part of an overall approach, but 99% of the time it just isn't worth it!
@@JackofAllMinistries Anybody who listens/considers/or has talked to Dennis Foley has my attention!
Now to go binge your other audio content, sir! Thanks and God bless!
@@insanejughead Thanks so much! And blessings to you as well!
Bro Thanks this will save me on my upcoming studio build!
Glad I could help!
Great video. Very informative and professional.
Thank you so much!
Thank you so much for the analysis! I did a project 7 years ago and used quiet pro glue, (2) 5/8" sheet rock, clay for the electrical outlets, sound proof windows and doors. I was extremely happy with the outcome, but dang was the quiet glue expensive and a pain to work with as I got the 5 gallon bucket with the refillable gun. After the project I wondered what could be substituted and never thought of carpet glue. Thanks again as I have a large project in the pipeline this spring, and this will save me time and money:)
My pleasure!
Yeah, the cost is something I still can't wrap my mind around. Obviously they're still in business, but I can only imagine how many people skip it for the price.
Hopefully you enjoy the results of the carpet glue just as much!
The value of constrained layer damping is also why laminated windows are used for studios. If you lightly tap the center of the window and it rings, it's not laminated. Laminated produces a dull thud and has a flatter transmission loss curve.
I am amazed at the results you got in the low end where STC doesn't really tell the story.
@@RBBlackstone our windows were actually alternating panes, which meant the second layer of exterior glass was thinner than the interior, so when sound waves hits the first layer the transmission is reduced. We live about 800 ft from a busy highway and the noise does not come through.
@@RBBlackstone Interesting! I've never thought about glass. The only glass in my room is covered - I don't have a control room.
@@functionalvanconversion4284 It's not only about transmission loss. A pane that rings can cause a loss in that ring area. You can feel the glass move. That said, I have mainly seen this in larger pro studios where the pane of glass can be huge.
I wish I had found you, before I spent a couple of thousands on the GG product. I still hear my neighbors, and bought a whole case of this stuff!!
I'm sorry to hear that! Do you guys have a shared wall?
@@JackofAllMinistries yes. But they swear they don't hear me, which I find hard to believe, especially after they offered to buy a couple of weeks ago. It's a sellers market. I'm here until the prices go down, lol.
@@kirbiejohnson4475 You may want to consider the two adjacent walls, floor and ceiling where they come together. There's something called "diffraction" or "flanking noise" where sound waves can move around objects, including walls. If there are cavities in the ceiling or floor, sound can travel around that way too. Or it could be impact noise, depending on what the sound is. Have you considered looking behind the drywall? May not be any help in the cavity between either. That really sucks, we used to live on the second floor of a three story apartment. We bothered the neighbors below, and we're constantly irritated by the neighbors above.
@@JackofAllMinistries it is the impact noise that I hear and I know it doesn't bother some ppl, but as this is supposed to be my retirement home, I want peace and quiet. My next solution is to build another wall and I'm praying for the next ppt next door too (prayer never hurts). Thank you JAOM for responding and please keep your channel going, all the other videos are either sponsored (and there's nothing wrong with that) or old. God Bless
@@kirbiejohnson4475 That's right! I don't know your relationship with the neighbors, but we're called to love our neighbors and enemies aren't we? I'd say prayer is a great way to do that!
Just FYi, Decibels scale is logarithmic, that means that an increase 3dB is a doubling in power (and is simultaneously about the smallest amount of change in volume that we can notice with our ears).
For example 2 violins playing should be roughly 3dB louder than just one (assuming they are playing the same thing the same way..).
A 9dB reduction from anything is absolute gold for someone trying to deaden a room... 48dB is OMG!!
Thanks for the help! Question though, I thought 1 dB was the smallest change you could hear. Isn’t that how the dB scale was created?
@@JackofAllMinistries I am sure there must be people who can notice a change in volume of 1dB, this will vary depending on the frequency, and how loud it is at first (I dare say the experience of hearing something at 130dB(a Jet plane taking off) or the sound of a pin dropping on to a wooden floor are entirely different, but I believe the 3dB difference is a decent rule of thumb. The way our brains process sound, and the way we can glean information despite background noise, interference, delays due to distance etc, is stunning.
Example; up to 90ms, if someone is speaking to you, their mouth will sync to their voice (in your head even though there is a definite delay) once they pass roughly 55 metres, their voice will suddenly become out of sync with the movement of their mouth)... this shows the 2n Visual cortex is syncronised with the audio cortex and something else, to guestimate the distance of the talker - amazing.
Interesting! I remember reading somewhere that Bell invented the dB measurement by finding the difference people could notice - but I’m no expert. It would make sense that it would be frequency dependent. Maybe it was based on a tone in the multiple k Hertz range. Thanks for all the info! I didn’t know that 90 ms became noticeable. I struggle sometimes to line up drums on my drum channel when editing because sometimes the minimum gap to move the file seems to be too much. I’ll bet the line on Resolve is about 100 ms then…
@@JackofAllMinistries Yes agree. 90ms works out at about 55metres (roughly). I do some DJing, and if the speakers are any more then even 5 metres away, you need a monitor, or you won't be to beat match because of the delay.
Re the 1dB, thing I have heard that before, and the 3dB think I stated, it is only now I am confronted with contradiction, that I am considering it ... maybe I need a soundmeter. I know that when 2 violins play together, while I am aware of them playing, and notice the greater richness of the tones, I don't really sense it as much louder, I can just notice it, and that would be 3dB.. maybe the whole concept is subjective... there was a lady in Germany who had 5,000:20 sight meaning she could read a sign at about 5kms away that most people could not read at 25 metres.. amazing :)
Thanks for your comment :)
Interesting vid,, I'll have to see your ither vid on testing GG vs the carpet glue hopefully you did a low frequency test because that is what its all about,, isolating the lows
Thanks for watching. If I remember, I didn’t do low frequency because you can’t do much for those with a thin layer of liquid. You need some serious mass to go low.
Great video man! I'm trying to find a carpet glue alternative in the UK....any ideas peeps?
Thanks so much! Hopefully someone can get you an across the pond substitute!
Good test, thanks. Does Lowe specify the ingredients of their adhesive?
Not that I could find in a cursory search.
amazing work, thank you
And thank you for watching!!
Great Video, whats your thoughts on the longevity of these products? Would the carpet glue stay tacky forever?
From my understanding the Roberts 3095 will. As for the TEC stuff I used, I think so but I don't know. I know there are glues that stay that way for decades. I have pulled up 80's carpet with tacky glue. It's hard to find info on that for some reason.
Tec said all of their products cure in 72 hours. Most are water based, so once that steam comes out they are hard, apparently, and not ideal anymore.
Did you use regular caulking around the edges of your drywall with carpet glue or just drywall mud?
Good question! I used flexible caulk on the first layer of drywall and regular mud on the second layer.
@@JackofAllMinistries awesome thank you!
thank you for putting this video together, learned alot!
Thank you for watching! Glad it helped!
SUPERB video. Lucidly argued. 👍
Thank you so much!
Great video. Truly one of the only videos that even considers alternatives to green glue in a logical manner. I would like to reduce the impact noise from the floor above me. What are your thoughts on using indoor/outdoor carpet glue between the existing two layers of sub-flooring above? Will that help reduce or even eliminate the impact sound due to walking, running, dropping items, etc?
Just a hypothesis here, but I would bet it would have a very small effect on impact noise. Decoupling is the best solution for impact noise - breaking the chain of contact with solid surfaces always has the best results for that
@@JackofAllMinistries Can decoupling be done from the floor of the apartment above or does it have to done from the ceiling of the apartment below? I am concerned about the costs as the units were freshly renovated.
Very valuable information! Thanks!
Of course!
Another great class !!!
So my take away from this is that “Correct glue between the second drywall is a good thing, better than just 2 layers” does that sound correct?
If I'm reading that right, I think you're correct. Two sheets of drywall and green Glue is an improvement over just drywall, but carpet glue does just as well for much cheaper.
This is such a good video. Also watched your other test video you did with the bricks and the blue tooth speaker, very helpful, thank you. Just wondering what brand the carpet glue was - I’m in Mew Zealand, so I doubt we will have the same product but it would be a good start to be able to find something similar if you could let me know the brand, thanks dude!
Thanks so much!
I’ve heard that the product I used is no longer being made. TEC I think was the name. Robert 3095 is the best product though after doing research. I doubt that’s in NZ either, but that may get you a start! You’re looking for a carpet glue that stays tacky over time and doesn’t harden. Good luck!
@@JackofAllMinistries awesome, thank you. I absolutely love your videos, you’re so clear and concise. Green glue is going to be the most expensive part of my build (almost twice the price of the drywall sheet itself) which I can’t really afford, so I’m on the hunt for the tacky carpet glue now. Thanks mate!
@@morgansamuelnz What a compliment! Thanks so much. Hopefully you find the right glue and your project comes out nice and quiet…
What was the active ingredient of the carpet glue? There's absolutely no way I'd be able to get it here in Aus, so i'd need an equivalent with the same stuff in it.
That’s a great question. First, I would say the better carpet adhesive to use is Robert’s 3095 rather than what I used. As far as I can tell, the base ingredient is naphthetic oil which derives from crude oil. That’s the best I can tell you. Sorry, I wish I had more info!
Green glue utilizing decoupling in it's stream style application
I think that probably is true on some level
My local Menards carries TEC brand indoor outdoor adhesive, but it is not the blue labeled 'skill set' Like Lowes'. The blue label bucket says it is not rated for use with treated wood, where as the one Menards carries is. Don't know if you tried this variant (green labeled bucket) or not. Going to buy a small quart for testing and hope it has similar properties and results, as Lowe's is several cities over for me.
I'd be interested to hear! I may try a few different types in a future video. Roberts 3095 seems to be the one everyone gets excited about
Excellent video. You should have way more subscribers.
Wow, that's quite the compliment! Thanks so much for saying that! Hopefully it happens for me soon.
Do you know what would be the equivalent carpet glue in the UK? Also do you know if carpet glue can be used at the edges of the drywall to fill gaps?
Sorry, I have no clue. If it helps, from what I've learned, the idea is to buy glue that will stay tacky. If it's really thin like pudding, it will likely dry rigid. If it's thicker, like frosting it'll probably be closer to the right thing. I'd just leave some smeared on some cardboard for a few days. If it's still flexible like chewing gum or even more flexible, you're probably where you need to be. For filling the gaps, I've only heard that flexible caulking is the stuff you want to use. Carpet glue might be okay, but I can't speak to it. Good luck!
I'm trying to find some in the UK I'm typing flexible carpet adhesive but not much info on it
@@charlie6852 I believe you guys have Roberts 3095 there, don't you? That's the one that kinda started it all...
Great video. I have a sound flanking issue with the neighbor above me in my condo. A loud squeaky sound penetrates through the side walls whenever she walks and it is unbearable. I started doing mass loaded vinyl between two layers of drywall, but am reconsidering and switching to this carpet adhesive instead of vinyl. Which do you think will out-perform?
Mass loaded vinyl will definitely have a bigger impact, but impact noise is best treated with decoupling if you can afford to lose some space.
If it's all about density why rockwool is lower the fiberglass? I will do a 2 layers of OSB with carpet glue for my garage. Thanks for the info.
That’s a good question. There’s kinda two sides to that equation from my understanding. One, mass is the best way to stop sound. Two, if it’s solid but flexible enough to move (as in vibrate) it can make the problem worse by transferring sound. If Rockwool isn’t used as limp mass and it’s too tight it can transfer sound better while fiberglass is soft enough to prevent transfer from drywall surface to drywall surface.
In the UK we have a product from Bostik called A320 tack. Do you think that would work?
I’ve never been to the UK (although I’d really like to visit), so I can’t really speak to the product’s abilities. At first glance I would bet it wouldn’t work, since most general flooring glues don’t stay soft and tacky over time. You might have better luck with A499, but again, I’ve never used it. You may want to buy a little bit and test it to see how soft it stays over time. Good luck!
what about putting closed cell spray foam inside of the studs instead of instead of insulation?
I haven’t tested that, but my hunch is that the rigidity of closed cell spray foam would actually aid in coupling surfaces which would increase impact noise and transfer sound. That may diminish the benefits of the added mass. Something I might consider testing in the future!
I used Roberts 3095 carpet glue and that stuff stays sticky for ever! just did a thin layer between my 2 sheets. didn't do any tests! so idk for sure what difference it made
stuff that you used looks like the Lowes house brand version of the Roberts. same stuff different brand
I believe you're correct. Never actually seen the Roberts in person, but on video it seems similar.
Thankyou so much for this video. I'm putting two layers of 5/8 drywall over existing 1/2 drywall. I'm trying to lower the road noise in my room can't sleep just too much low noise from the road in front of my house. I've spent alot of sleepless nights reading forums and watching videos to try and get some relief. I'm starting the double layer this weekend but just can't seem to order the green glue because the price and just don't understand how silicone vault wouldn't do the same thing for way less. I need 40 tubes of green glue and that's more than all my other materials double layer 5/8. Thankyou for this video I'm going to get the carpet glue I door outdoor. Just curious if silicone caulk would be better it stays flexible. Thankyou
When I say flexible, I mean more like a liquid, not just stretchy. I'll bet silicone would work on some level, but when my other carpet glue dried in my experiment the numbers actually got worse. Silicone seems like it might be an in-between.
One thing to consider is the frequency of the noise you're trying to block. Extra drywall and GG will help in the mids and highs, but if you have low frequency issues (garbage trucks, vibrating trunks, etc) the problem is much harder to stop.
If you still want to do more research, you can check out my other video on studio building terms (ua-cam.com/video/cJ8Dszi7xEU/v-deo.html), and jump to the portions about "flanking noise" and "diffraction." These often come into play with road noise. You can also Google the term "constrained layer damping" to help understand the Green Glue concept a little bit more.
Good luck with your project! Hope things get a lot quieter.
@@JackofAllMinistries I used the carpet glue worked like a champ can't hear anything through my walls. Thankyou soo much you saved me alot of money wasted on green glue.
@@kylekayser2291 Hey hey! Glad I could help out a little bit! Enjoy that peace and quiet.
Hi, so I had watched a video where green glue was used to soundproof a room. I wasn't looking to purchase any in the near future although I do plan to soundproof the basement. Today I was looking on Craigslist just to see what treasures I might find. I came across someone who had a bucket and a half of green glue that they were giving away. I watched your video, and decided that I wanted it. I emailed them, and got no response. Since it was close to where I live, I decided to just go to see if it was still available. Guess what...it was, and I got a bucket and a half for free! I scored big time! Thank you for your review, and comparison.
Wow, good deal! You definitely can’t beat $0 per square foot. When the time comes, I’m sure your basement will thank you…
Could you do an Update on as to whether FLEX Seal would get you the same or better performance?
That's a great idea! Maybe I'll start tracking all the comments about other products and do a shootout...
@@JackofAllMinistries Coolbeans
Do you think the TEC adhesive you were using similar to Roberts 6700?
I’m not sure - I used it because I thought it would be similar to 3095 but in the end I’m not how the tackiness lasted. That’s the trick, is finding something that stays tacky long term.
@@JackofAllMinistries I used Roberts 1487 before, it's a hardwood glue. It stays sort of rubber-like after it dries but I'm not entirely sure it will be soft enough
@@JackofAllMinistries I mean I used it for sound insulating below my hardwood floor.
I’m building a new home and want to create a significant sound reduction for that bedrooms. Is this the best approach and what about the safe-n-sound product?
Safe n sound products will definitely help. The best basic increase in my opinion is to use type-x 5/8” drywall instead of regular 1/2” and it’s even better if you use a double layer. Using solid core doors rather than hollow is important too. Soundproofing is a spectrum so the more quiet you want it to be, the more money you have to spend and I find that the returns are diminishing. You might find it helpful to check out this video too
ua-cam.com/video/25K0BqtktB4/v-deo.html
I need some advice, how do I cut road noise? I don’t want to ripped out the existing wall since they look solid but I don’t have insulation? Will an MLV help reduce low frequency noise from the outside or should I just go with another layer of 5/8 with carpet glue on it?
I really can’t tell you for sure, but I would think another layer of drywall would be more cost effective, especially if the plan for MLV is not to hang it limply. However, I would suspect that road noise is likely leaking in through flanking. Maybe through a door, window, or something like that
And what about using plain silicone added consistently? ,Perhaps applying on the studs only, ?
The problem with silicone is that it dries solid. The thing about constrained layer dampening is that the middle layer has to be kinda fluid to prevent vibrational transfer. Silicone will dampen some, but it won’t do as well as Green Glue or carpet glue.
One of the things that Green Glue does is that it helps to create a small air barrier between the sheets of sheetrock. Air gaps are more effective at reducing sound transmission than other physical products. It's one of the reasons why a properly-installed resilient wall is so effective.
I’ve heard a lot of people say that, but I cant find any documentation that states that. You don’t happen to know of a source, do you? Everything I’ve read states it works by constrained layer damping, which seems to suggest they want the air gaps to be minimized. I’m curious because if air gaps are the goal (like rez channel), then I would think more minimal surface contact would be better because anywhere GG makes contact with a surface it’s not doing its job. In that case I would think thin beads of striped silicone would be better.
@@JackofAllMinistries You need different solutions because no single solution will prevent sound transmission at all frequency levels. I don't have a white paper to hand you. I'm thinking about it from a physics perspective. Imagine that we're standing 3 feet from each other, and I want to punch you. You're just far enough away that I'd be punching air. But if I put the end of a 2x4 against your chest and I hit the other end of it, you'd feel it. That's basically how the studs in your wall work when sound waves hit the sheetrock: sound energy travels more effectively through a physical medium, especially at lower frequencies. A resonating wall will have a harder time moving another parallel wall if there is air between them, but if you were to connect them somehow, then that would function as a piston. A resilient wall works by creating an air gap while using as little material as possible to prevent a piston effect. You can mitigate sound with CLD, resilient walls, Rockwool, etc... but it will ultimately come down to an effective combination of different solutions for your use case.
@betaomega04 For sure, I understand the impact noise side of air gaps, and there are certainly a lot of people who have said the same thing. But if that’s what Green Glue is trying to accomplish, it seems everywhere it exists between the sheets, it’s connecting those surfaces together. I’m not sure there is enough of an air gap there. I mean, maybe a 16th of an inch and only where the GG is not applied. So why not use silicone beads in strips that create more air gaps?
Even if there are air gaps they are too small to provide any type of sound dampening effect, in fact any small air gaps may cause frequency resonance. 'Constrained layer dampened' drywall is able to flex when the sound hits it, that's where the additional transmission loss is gained.
@JP5466 Great explanation! Thanks for the help.
Sounds like a format of isolation by giving the two sheets of drywall some spacing with a flexible give. Honestly I wonder if it's just as good when you encase the sheets in a thin layed out pattern of rubber gaskets. Certainly be really cheap to do.
That's a great thought! I can't imagine that any substance is really creating some kind of all encompassing membrane in between. I'd be interested in testing to see if a rubber gasket air gap performs as well as the glue.
@@JackofAllMinistries right?! The sheet rock are basically just mass. I mean they already have the thin metal strap that sits between two walls. Add a layer of seamless 6mm poly (assuming you care about moisture trapping) to block out any air gap and I wonder if just as good as stuff like quietrock. I am doing a few walls between the bedrooms and gonna see how they turn out.
Ive wondered the same thing
Why not a layer of tar paper between the sheet rock?
@@Lughnerson tar paper is just paper with tar impregnated. It isn't actually gooey pure tar. It's still very stiff compared to a gasket situation. Which would also have a bit of space to decouple the walls. But I suppose it never hurts to try.
The mentioned carpet adhesive is unavailable at Lowe’s. It appears Menards has it available but unsure if it’s the exact same product. Has anyone tried to obtain this product recently? If you were successful, where did you find it?
Looks like you’re right. I would recommend trying to get your hands on Roberts 3095 which I believe is at Home Depot if possible - it’s one I know stays tacky over time.
Confused on the last step you said the wall mud is that the last step on walls? I’m not a builder
Mudding is just a normal drywalling step. It uses tape and joint compund (commonly called mud) to cover the seams between the drywall sheets.
I want to make soundproofing plugs to fit into doorways. Can I use carpet glue or silicone between thin sheets of plywood or other thin board material or will it only work with drywall?
I believe the principle that GG works in is called "constrained layer damping." You can look it up here: www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing_101/comp-how-does-constrained-layer-damping-work
The idea is to have layers with different densities to encourage dampening. However, you don't want to use too much because part of a panels ability to dampen comes from its ability to flex in sympathy with the sound waves. Less is more in that regard.
Great video!! What about the long term drying of this Lowes substitute? Will it still be tacky 10 years from now? Most carpet glues might still be tacky, but will this particular brand still work years down the road?
That’s a good question. I went with TEC because I read that it stayed tacky and it seemed to while it sat in my garage. However, the sound proofing ability of my room has diminished noticeably. Not terrible, but you can tell. I haven’t actually measured again. I know seasonal shifting of my house has happened, so gaps and cracks could be anywhere - just not visible. That shifting did change my door seals, which I adjusted again and most of the issue went away. However, I think it’s still a little leakier than before. I’m wondering if the glue is no longer creating constrained layer damping because it’s rigid…
@@JackofAllMinistries With all these posts/replies some of the message may be getting lost. Are you saying because of the decrease in sound deadening with the TEC product you are now recommending Roberts 3095?
TIA
@@oomfh I guess I’m saying I’m now suspicious that is the case. I can’t say for certain that TEC will stay tacky long term like I initially believed. I suppose the best way for me to find out is to build a sample to test it. I am confident the Robert’s does stay tacky though.
@@JackofAllMinistries Thx for the reply. In my case, I’m adding sound proofing to a downstairs apartment (two layers of 5/8” Gold Bond Fire Shield).
Spoke with Robertson tech support this a.m.. They are aware of 3095 being used for sound deadening and are currently conducting further research.
Takeaways: (1) the product stays tacky indefinitely (2) As for health hazards - it is designed for interior use only.
🤞
@@oomfhI hope they finish their research soon - it might give Green Glue a reason to lower their prices. On the other hand, it might just give Robert’s a reason to raise theirs!
How about a thin sheet of rubber between the drywall sheets? Surely something like that is available on a roll to provide cushioning / gap with some density too… what do you think?
I think that would be great! I think Mass Loaded Vinyl was invented because it’s cheaper than rubber. It’s all about mass and rubber is good for that - so long as it’s dense and not porous. I actually thing loosely hanging it behind the drywall would be better because you get the limp mass benefit but it would be helpful either way I think. I wonder why no one has made a product like that out of recycled tires…
@@JackofAllMinistries maybe nows our chance 😉🤝
@paulk9534 We can way overcharge and make millions!
What a great analysis
Thanks!
Do you have a alternative to tec carpet adhesive in Canada?
Roberts 3095 is the only possibility I know of - I’m not sure if that’s available in Canada though.
spent weeks watching all the tutorials online read the directions on the bottle closely and worked very hard trying to soundproof my condo. In conclusion, the difference I heard before and after green glue was very minimal. In my opinion it is definitely a bit of bullshit.
Through all of this, I have learned that soundproofing is very difficult, everything you try gives way less of a result than you hoped, and the process costs a lot of money. I think Green Glue works as part of a bigger picture approach to soundproofing, but it just costs so much.
Did you seal around all of your electrical boxes with putty? Did you use the green glue sealant at the drywall seams and where the walls meet? Any leakage there will kill the effort.
How long does it take to start working ? I’m also trying to sound proof a condo wall because of the neighbors tv. I already had the the original wLk …. I spent so much by buying the 440 sound barrier boards (installed on existing with the green glue) then a quarter inch drywall (with the green glue) . It was just done this week but I hear nooo difference. On a 16x8 foot wall I used 12 bottles of green glue!
fun fact. I actually called Roberts tech support and they said they are fully aware of it's use for drywall and are planning to do testing and release that info to the public.
hopefully that'll finally shut up the nay sayers once and for all
Wow, that's awesome! If I put together a follow up video I'll have to use Roberts 3095 specifically. Might change the soundproofing world forever by saving people big money.
@@JackofAllMinistries You know, when I go to Home Depot, they've got the 3095 (as "indoor"), and they have a 6700, as "indoor/outdoor".
@@CoopAssembly Maybe I'll test them both!
@@CoopAssembly when I called up Roberts they specifically told me that 3095 has the acoustic properties when used on drywall and they're doing tests on it specifically.
so I would be weary of using anything else. a test would be okay. but I would not want to gamble on using the outdoor stuff when 3095 is tried and true
@@levijessegonzalez3629 Right. I noticed on the literature for 3095, "SBR Latex high solids latex-based adhesive", and on 6700, "SBR Latex solvent-free adhesive". Perhaps that branches significantly in the PSA technology.
I’m currently working on a project in my 336 sq ft utility shed. green glue method was gonna cost me around $1500. I’m definitely gonna try the carpet glue instead so thanks a lot. My question is how do I apply it? How much per 4x8 drywall sheet?
I just tried to use the same amount of glue as I would have for green glue - so that’s about 32 oz per doubled 4x8 sheet. So an 8x8 wall would have 64 oz between sheets, and another 64 oz if you’re doing drywall on both sides. I just kind of opened the lid and dabbed it all around, but I think using a notched trowel might be more even.
@@JackofAllMinistries cool I’ll do just that, so how were your results on your build? How’s the isolation?
@@PearlLaneTV Pretty solid. I believe if you check out the 4th video of my studio build series on my channel I went through and tested different areas of my house before and after so you can see.
Thank you for the video. Super helpful! I'm in Australia, and we don't have the carpet glue product you mentioned. I found one that is a carpet tile adhesive that says it remains tacky for relaying tiles. From your experience, do you think this would work? Would I spread it out evenly the way you did, or the way the green glue application is recommended? Thanks :)
I ended up just spreading it from the jar. Kinda just tapping it out in rows. You can see it in one of my videos,!i just can’t remember which one. The trowel method was a little too time consuming and I figured it worked for green Glue… so far no regrets! Hope it works out well for you!
I actually think it was in this video
ua-cam.com/video/455o9NuvWWw/v-deo.html
Maybe not, I can’t find it lol!
Thank you very much for your response! Much appreciate you taking the time. Thanks again for the video as well! Has really helped me :)
@@danielladivine3118 My pleasure!!
Have you researched the effect of Resilient channels?
Only for its effect on impact noise. I used it in my studio and it seems to be fairly effective although far from perfect. I should also note that I didn't use the special clips that they say to use.
Great video. It seems the high production values have promoted some people to respond as if this is your full time job when, from the views you've had so far, I doubt (yet). I wonder how the carpet adhesive performs over time. I just had to disassemble a room in a room I built 4 years ago using green glue, and can confirm it was still very tacky, similar to the carpet adhesive in your video after one day. Perhaps the carpet adhesive could dry completely in a couple of years?
If people think this is my full-time job, I'll take that as a compliment! I assure you, it's not LOL
I'm glad to have confirmation that it stays tacky, even after 4 years. I know at least some carpet glue stays tacky. I pulled some up last year that was tacky and it was put in at least 10 years prior. However, I have also pulled up some crumbly stuff. I believe the Roberts 3095 will stay that way.
@@JackofAllMinistries Any updates on this? Have you come to a firm conclusion about the TEC (from lowes) vs the Roberts 3095, as far as what's better?
@@DrMathOfficial Not yet, but it is on my to do list. Hopefully before the end of this year.
@@JackofAllMinistries Hmmm, I see. Well thanks for the response, and thanks for the work you're doing, GREAT page! 👍🏽
@@DrMathOfficial Thanks! I’ll try to keep it coming
lol I love the green glue drawing looks extremely accurate!
Only the best here!!
Excellent video!
Thanks for watching!
is this stuff a viable option to use in a bedroom apartment, i.e. not renovating?
Most likely not. You can’t use it without at least adding another layer of drywall and I would assume that’s out of the question.
Is it a good idea to do 5/8 Sheet Rock -> Green Glue -> 5/8 Sheet Rock -> Indoor Outdoor Carpet Adhesive 5/8 Sheet Rock?
That would be interesting to see! I know this, every time you add layer of sheetrock you only get 50% of the performance of the previous sheet. So if 1 sheet did 20db, second sheet does 10db, third does 5db, fourth does 2.5db and so on. Eventually you're shrinking your room by 5/8ths of an inch with virtually no return. For the glues, I don't think there would be much difference because typically you switch materials because they perform differently at different frequencies. I don't think carpet glue/GG have very different performance profiles so I don't know if it would be different than just doing 2 layers of GG or 2 layers of carpet glue. I could definitely be wrong though, and having both sure wouldn't hurt anything.
You Da Man! Thank you for doing this!!!
Thanks! It's my pleasure!
I am curious, since I know you ran some tests on this but have you tested the 5/8 drywall with Green glue vs 5/8 with the carpet glue after 30 days of cure time?
I know GG says that when you get best results I'm just curious how true that is and if carpet glue you used still hold sup better after that 30 days. Thanks!
I did but I didn’t write anything down. It was way later (like 30 days obviously) so I didn’t film anything. I don’t remember exactly but I thought the differences were pretty negligible.
Wow who would of known thank you for this info.
My pleasure!
Which one can I use now or are all indoor/outdoor the same. I can’t seem to find the brand you used at the store
The best one I know of is Robert’s 3095. You can get it on Amazon or Home Depot usually. I actually wouldn’t use the one I did because I think it lost its tackiness.
Thank you so much. I’m going to try it on my first floor tenants ceiling. 🤞let’s hope it works out
@@Jcampos890 Pretty sure it will be an improvement one way or another. How much of an improvement? I guess we’ll find out!
This is Excellent
Thank you!!
Okay, there's so many different brands and numbers for carpet glue. 700, 702, 722, Roberts, Tec.....Which one?? I'm going to add a layer of 5/8 drywall to a bathroom wall. Thanks.
The tried and true carpet glue is Robert’s 3095. That is the only one I would be willing to speak about with any confidence. I’m not even sure about the TEC I used in mine…
Do you know the brand. Looking for it in lowes but can’t find it
It was TEC Indoor/Outdoor carpet adhesive, but I am now hesitant about its performance. I’m not sure it has actually stayed tacky over time. Robert’s 3095 (I think that’s the number) is the tried and true product, but I don’t think Lowes sells it. I think you have to go to Home Depot or the internet for that one.
I thought green glue or any glue is supposed to be applied in lines not troweled on. So if you did your carpet glue and made lines would it even be more effective because you need the air gap to help kill the sound right?
To my knowledge, the application isn’t meant to create air gaps, but rather to make it as evenly spread as possible. Reason being your trying to implement constrained layer damping. I did a quick Google search to see if air can be used as a constrained layer but I couldn’t find any articles about it. I think it has to be a liquid or solid, but I could be wrong.
How about elastic sealant (or carpet glue) on the surface of all my studs instead. Separating the drywall from the beginning
That will help a little with impact noise, but you'd be better off with something like UltraTouch+ Sound Absorption Strips ( www.menards.com/main/p-1469640401911.htm) or you could try carpet/carpet padding on the studs. The reason glue between sheets of drywall helps is because of something called "constrained layer damping." The fact that there are two layers separated by another layer of a different density allows this to happen. The studs aren't really a part of the overall flexible surface barrier, but play a huge role in impact noise because they are part of the stiff structure. I hope that makes sense.
Damping is correct! Many say “dampening”, even on pro sites. Dampening would just mean it gets wet. Lol
@@RBBlackstone Lol, I've never thought about that! I have always just used them interchangeably.
Where did you find Green Glue for 16.95 a tube? The best price I could find was 19.
You can't find it for that anymore - or at least I can't. That price was pretty much steady for a long time, even through most of the pandemic. Now $19 is pretty much the deal.
Tons of thanks! =)
You're welcome! Hope you find it helpful!
where are u getting these prices for materials from???
Great question! These were the actual prices at my local Lowe's/Menard's at the time of filming. This was around September 2021. If you head to tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber you can track lumber prices over the last couple of years. You can see that COVID lumber prices peaked around May 2021 and quickly bottomed out around July. They then stayed fairly low until late fall/early winter. At the time of filming prices had returned to a fairly normal pre-COVID point so I figured/hoped they would stabilize. I had no idea inflation would become the issue it is now. The ratios are still kinda close though because although lumber has climbed, Green Glue is currently priced at almost $20 per tube, up about 15%.
Could you use VCT floor glue?
I definitely can't say for sure, but from what I know that stuff dries solid, correct? If so I don't think it would perform as well.
Silicone vs green glue about 10% of cost. You get the advantage of it not drying and getting solid
I guess silicone is flexible and of course it's a great sealant. I never thought of that as a substitute.
@@JackofAllMinistries isn't slicone flammable? as far as I know carpet glues aren't flammable
@@Tinnitussss Silicone is only flammable at very high temperatures. If you think about it, it’s used in bathrooms and kitchens all the time.
@@JackofAllMinistries sure but bathroom is ok right? since it's already tiled and in a way applied as a line, imagine that a drywall would prevent the fire goes to the structure, but the enemy is behind the lines, and massive amount of it, just close to the structure.
@@Tinnitussss True, but silicones ignition temperature is almost twice that of wood. I think it’s like 800 degrees to ignite it, so your framing would burn far sooner than silicone.
Also what about off gassing??
What do you mean?
I saw your video suggesting the indoor/outdoor carpet glue. Tried that. Seems okay. I paid ~$40 (cdn) for a small pale of Roberts at the local Home Despot, which covered about 3.5 sheets of 4x8 drywall. That's still way less vs GreenScrew, which would have cost ~$175. The carpet glue maintained a okay elasticity when cured. Wont be surprised if it turns into powder in 20yrs, granted a long time. Anyways... came across the Bona R851 floor glue. Actually bought a pale of this for laying my floors. It's highly elastic, designed to accommodate wood movement, so really what you want when sandwiching materials for sound mitigation/isolation. The guy claims it has an 69 STC (I call bullshit), but regardless, I expect it works as well as GreenScrew. ua-cam.com/video/-WNYv4n4QNI/v-deo.html
Wow, I'm going to have to try that Bona r851. To me, the whole thing is that any stuff can only perform so well. I mean, in a world where density is king, we're leaning on putty. If it's cheap, any help is great, but like you said, Green Glue is just so stinking expensive. And yeah, 69 STC is only happening if they forgot to mention they added concrete in the mix...
Their 'Quantum T' glue is available in the UK though, which has the same STC.
Have you ever used Sonopan? you should test that product if possible
That would be interesting. I'm a little bit skeptical because they're lightweight and made from wood fiber, but I'd love to give it a shot. I wonder if it's a lot different from that fiberboard insulation you can get from Lowes or Home Depot.
@@JackofAllMinistries ya I'm not sure, I have a few Sheets of Sonopan myself. I think I'm going to use MLV as I have a very interesting Sound proofing dilemma with limited space.
@@JackofAllMinistries I can't get Sonopan where I am, but I'm planning to try a layer of that fiberboard from Home Depot instead. Have you tested it?
@@peter5648 No, I actually only heard of it last week for the first time. The real question for me is whether it's worth it to do Sonopan, or just add another layer of drywall at 1/5th the cost.
Why not a layer of tar paper between the sheet rock?
I could see that being beneficial, although I think the tensile strength of the sheet may encourage vibration. It's definitely worth looking at.
I argued with a client about 3 music studios he wanted me to build.. He heard on the grape vine about green glue and wanted it all over his walls.. I said you'd be far better off spending the money on mass loaded vinyl rolls and using intumescent sealant instead of the green glue.. Never have I been convinced the stuff is even remotely worth the price tag.. Kinda reminds me of the foam panels for extortionate prices on amazon and the likes that do about the same job as hanging up a few bed sheets in there place.. Needless to say, I ended up putting over 3 grands worth of green glue on the studio walls very reluctantly.. Not my money after all but I was just pissed because I knew it could be done more effectively for less..
That would be so frustrating. I know that every industry includes products that charge more for a brand versus ingredients - shampoo, toothpaste, paint, whatever. But I feel like Green Glue is especially bad because of the cost and the fact that they prey on people that don’t know better.
@@JackofAllMinistries Absolutely.. No problems paying a fair price for stuff that works, but green glue is snake oil 100%... Come to think of it, another alternative similar to the carpet glue you mentioned is contact adhesive.. Might even be carpet glue under its orginal name.. I left a tub of the contact adhesive open for a month by accident, The solvent had completely evaporated and all that was left was a rubbery goo.. I know you can buy it in painters cans of the stuff.. Its most well known name is UHU glue.
@@petrokemikal That sounds like something worth trying out! One of these days I’ll revisit my testing video and try some things out like that.
Agree with all your points but carpet glue isn’t staying flexible for many years-it’ll get brittle
That’s usually true, but some brands will stay tacky. The challenge is figuring out which one will. I’m about 60% the one I used has mostly dried out. I plan to make a sample that I can keep checking in the future. However, Roberts has one (1095 I believe) that stays tacky, and I have pulled up carpet before - even as old as the 80s - where the glue is still tacky. Of course, I couldn’t tell you what brand they were and couldn’t guarantee that they will always stay tacky or that they even exist anymore.
Will green glue stay flexible?
@javanpohl3036 Yes, that’s one of the most essential traits.
Why not use rolled rubber sheets? It's an 1/8" thick, so you can tack it up before your drywall and the screws will end up holding up both. Why? Because I've done it! No question to me that I made the correct decision!!
Great suggestion! I've considered using that myself. Never given it a try, but maybe I'll test it on my next materials video.
You're talking about MLV? mass loaded vinyl
@@lse4709 Yep, that’s correct.
how about silicone?
The problem with silicone is that it’s just rigid enough to transfer vibrations. It needs to either be tacky enough to absorb, or sense enough to not vibrate.
Man thank you for the video I am soundproofing my studio I think I’m gonna go for carpet glue thanks again
I think it’s definitely worth the money savings. Hope you end up pleased with the results!
Why wouldn’t cheap vinyl caulking work like green glue??? Very curious….
I admit I’ve never actually used vinyl caulking, but I assume that like most caulking it dries hard. It may be flexible, but it would still be hard. Green Glue is actually not an adhesive at all - it’s more like slime. Green Glue stays tacky between drywall and that’s what gives it a little “boost.” What we’re going for here is called constrained layer damping, or layers of differing mass being sandwiched together. For that reason, any combo of different materials is helpful, but drywall to gummy glue and back to drywall is better than drywall to stiffened caulk to drywall. Hope this helps!
@@JackofAllMinistriesi need to soundproof an already dry walled garage that im sealing off to make a studio out of. what do you recommend? could i add vinyl to the existing drywall then a 2nd drywall and be done or should i look into double wall something?
@@FlankinspanK There are a lot of components and variables, but I’ll give you a general idea of what I would do. If it’s soundproofing you’re looking for,I recommend building a room within a room. This prevents contact between hard surfaces like framing which prevents impact noise/transmission. Using solid lumber helps too because it’s less likely to flex. 2x8s are usually the minimum recommended, but I think most studios use 2x12. That gets pretty expensive though. For the inside portion I’d go with MLV, and two layers of something. They say plywood sounds the best, but you could probably save money doing 2 layers of 5/8” type x drywall with a 1/4” layer of plywood on top. Between layers I would use Roberts 3095 carpet glue because it stays tacky and is far less expensive than Green Glue.
Now I realize that’s an expensive project. You may not want to do each of those things and I totally understand that. Keep in mind each thing you remove makes your sound proofing a little less effective.
Just remember, soundproofing is all about 3 things: decoupling, air sealing and MASS. Hope that helps a little bit.
Does carpet glue stay tacky for years/decades?
Not always, but it can. Robert’s 3095 does and I thought TEC indoor/outdoor carpet adhesive does, but now I’m not so sure about the second one.
But which has less VOC's??
I'm not 100% sure, but I think both have zero VOC's.