Are Amp Sims & Midi Drums Too Fake For REAL Mixes?
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- Опубліковано 29 січ 2023
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I think it's pretty safe to say that amp sims and midi drums are more than capable of professional results for genres like djent and other over-produced subgenres of metal...
But what about genres that call for "real-sounding" production?
You know...the raw, organic sounds of yesteryear?
You'll find out the answer in this video.
Check out Mike's UA-cam Channel HERE: / @castleultra1082
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He touched on a tip that helped me the most, just sitting in my mixing position, and listening to my favourite music, stuff I've been listening to for decades and know intimately.
Not mixing, not working on anything, just sitting back, having a couple of beers, and relaxing.
Now I know those speakers well, and know how much bass I should be hearing, how much cymbal, how it should sound overall.
It's something that really helped me improve my mixes. 🙂👍
Same here!
Great advice!
You know, producers have been using midi and ampsims for years, I recorded real drums in 2014, and since I was using a lot of midi drums for years, a lot of people told me it sounded fake, they didn't know it was real drums 🤣🤣
your acoustic drum recording must've been pretty insane people thought it's fake lol.
@@alrecks619 That's the funniest thing, I actually went to a super pro studio to record, plus I hired a drummer and a mix/master enginneer, both with more than 20 years of experience.
It reminds me of this study they did where they had wine connoisseurs test different wine. They gave them a 3 dollar bottle and told them it was top shelf, and gave them a 100 dollar bottle and told them it was cheap. They all agreed that the expensive bottle was inferior and explained why the cheap bottle was the better one. Shows how much other factors go into someones perception of thing. I see it all the time in audio, people pretending they here the most subtle difference in an ea or something to demonstrate their superior musical ear
I played a mix I did for a professional engineer that used Superior Drummer, but it was one of the default sets. He called it being SD right away.
Then I played a different song with a different SD mix using a completely different set of samples. He goes, "Oh, you used real drums on this one!" Nope. Still "fake." I just didn't use the ones everyone does.
Thanks again to Bobby and everybody for the cool comments! This was a ton of fun! Been a fan of this channel for a LONG time and it’s crazy seeing my face in a Frightbox vid haha 🤘🏽
Thanks for sharing your inspiring story, Mike!
Well done man. I can imagine it being surreal to see yourself in a Frightbox vid but you killed it imo!
@@roywennekes8548 thank you! Yeah it’s funny because when I see a new Frightbox vid I click and watch. Been doing that for years so even though I knew this was coming out it’s still a surreal feeling. I almost didn’t want to watch for fear it wasn’t real haha
Awesome stuff Mike!
@@Aleksisguitar thank you much appreciated! 🤘🏽
Another great video! Love how real life examples were used. Super authentic video as usual! Thanks Bobby!
Cool video Bobby and Mike. Some nice tips in here and just an inspiring message. Supercool to have somebody just like myself on the channel and hearing about their journey. Looking forward to running into you at the mix crypt Mike!
Glad to hear you’re joining us. You won’t regret it. You will definitely improve on whatever it is you’re seeking out
I had a URM membership for a few months which is a nice site for getting big name tracks to mess with but just wasn't getting the help where I needed it. Been watching Bobby for a couple years as well. Mike's story is my story except I built a dedicated studio in my garage. This has pushed me to join. Crypt here I come. Thanks Bobby n Mike!
Dude the crypt is awesome because you pretty much have a ton of access to the man Bobby himself. You ask him a question or need help he will help you 100% of the time. It’s awesome
I agree and work as you. Thanks for this video and rock and roll!
Dude is cool. Very inspired and inspiring. What get's on my nerves about people who are so called producers/engineers , seem to never want to give a "good" critique on your mix. They are only quick to tell you everything they say you've done wrong. I say , if you're happy , the client is happy , it's fine. No one will ever do a perfect mix. They don't exist.
Facts!!! Go back in time to some mixes you grew up listening to and jamming out to and some of them don’t even sound that good compared to today’s standards but you still love them and wouldn’t change a thing about them!
@@castleultra1082 buddy...if it ain't spit out by a computer these days , it's no good (by todays standards). The days of recording off the floor are all but done. At least from what I've heard (radio , yada yada). It's mostly programmed this or that. But at least I wish they'd make it more realistic. You can spot prog drums a mile away. %90 of them are pegged at %100 velocity and no human can play like that.
Definitely an inspiring video. Cheers to Mike for being a humble dude, and sharing his story! I’m new to the engineering journey myself, and this channel has been an amazing resource. Bobby you’re an awesome dude for being so generous with your knowledge and your time! I started learning a few years ago, because I wanted to be able to record my own bands. I recently recorded some friends of mine as well. It’s a fun journey, but it’s a lot of work. You just gotta put in the reps like Mike said, and you WILL get better. I hope to be getting pro quality results someday out of my home set up eventually. Not there yet, but screw it, it’s the underground!
Yoooooo thanks for the kind words! And yes man keep going and doing what you do! I can tell with your attitude you will definitely get to where you want to be! Ain’t nothing between you and your goal but time! 🤘🏽
awesome inspirational video mike and bobby. ive been a crypt member for like 3 months and its already taken me far above what i was getting on my own. cant wait to see and hear more !!
3 months progress awesome! What excites me is imagining how much better you’ll be in another 3 months, and so on. It’s fun
very similar story to most of us in the Mix Crypt. I have a very very similar space for recording and mix and have the same speakers. Hopefully start getting client soon
Great video! Thanks to Mike for sharing all the info, your mixes sound sic dude! 🤘
Thanks for the kind words! If you have any music you have out there let me know I’d like to check yours out as well. 👍🏽
Great video and thanks to Mike for sharing. I’m sure a lot of us in the crypt have similar stories - I know I do! 😅
In case anybody sees this, when I said the studio guys wanted cash only I forgot to mention they also refused to give any kind of receipts ever. So yeah lesson learned haha
Bobby, you're the best brother. Keep it coming!! Interesting that some generally believe that MIDI and/or drum samples sound worse than "real" drums. In my listening experience (using post rock and prog like instrumentals as an example) I've found many examples where the opposite is true. Especially if the live/real drums were not recorded and mixed by a professional. There is some material out there that was produced with EZ Drummer, Superior drummer, XLN, BFD, etc, etc, that sounds excellent!! JMHO.
Great story and video!
Great video man! This actually gives me some hope lol
I used to hate midi drums until I found BFD3. They leave so much open for the user.
EZDrummer and SuperiorDrummer never sounded like something I would hear coming straight from a drum tracking session.
I feel much more comfortable using midi drums now.
this guy represents me lol. Except I'm even poorer and my "home studio" is a shitty pc with a cheap focusrite interface, headphones and reaper. But there's no excuse these days. I have ezdrummer and Archetype gojira and man, the results you can get are pretty cool even if you are a begginer. Also agree with the part where Mike says you gota put your stuff out there. no point on having a collection of songs lost in your PC that you're never gonna release.
As minimal as your setup is thats literally all you need haha If you’re having a good time and being creative you’re definitely winning at life🤘🏽
@@castleultra1082 facts 🤘
Good Stuff 👍
Great story that I can relate to 100%. Had my first real band around '99 and we decided to record a demo in an actual studio. Complete and utter shitshow. Two years later we recorded the first songs ourselves - a book about mixing (no youtube, imagine this!), a 4 channel soundcard, a Behringer 4 channel mixer, cheap hifi speakers, some rented mics from other local bands and a pirated super buggy version of Logic on a not-so-fast Pentium Windows PC. And off we went. Listening to those recordings now it sounds sub par 🙄but tbh, I'm still surprised about the results we got from recording a live drum set with a 4 mics setup. We had a blast with producing our own stuff and I learned a lot back then. Good times. 😊
Yup, been there 😂
this has been so inspiring
Nice easter egg with that pillow :P
Good eye!
It pumped you up? Nice it pumped me up too. Thanks Bobby. And castle ultra gets a subscribe for sure.
Mike was able to capture the exact idea I had in my head for years. And added his own insight to help create one of the coolest projects ive have ever done. Thanks broski.
You can find our lyric video here ua-cam.com/video/9RtvagDV5qI/v-deo.html
And our Full EP here: ua-cam.com/video/B9D5oXcAsKo/v-deo.html
I hope its ok to post links here bobby.
Yooooooooo it was a lot of fun doing your EP and we gotta do round 2!
Dude, that EP sounds amazing 🤘🤘
@@thelongestjan thanks for the kind words all are appreciated 🤘🏽
How about we focus more on song writing. With today's home recording capabilities, a good song is all it takes. Modern-day metal is kind of on rinse/repeat mode.
man, those tracks remind me of a band i played many shows with back in the day, His Hero is Gone. Love it!
I remember the drums in Lux aeterna drums sounded too perfect it's like a programmed drums..
too nice
I don't think they sound too fake, the problem is all the bands sound like they're using the same gear. It's boring.
I like how humble Mike is 🙂👍
Does anyone of you know if I need Facebook or something similar to join the MixCrypt? I think I read somewhere that the live group calls are held via Facebook or something. I just read the FAQ to check that but I did not find anything about the platform that will be used.
The live calls are held in our private Facebook group and the tutorials/multitrack downloads are hosted on my website.
@@FrightboxRecording thank you for the quick response! :)
I always wondered if it's possible to use EZdrummer sounds with an electric kit.
100% possible, I do it all of the time!
i thought i smell REAPER in this video. Turns out i was right ;)
Reaper kicks ass! I tried it just because it was affordable and wasn’t sure how much into recording I was gonna get and now I won’t ever want to use anything else.
@@castleultra1082 I approve this message.
@castleultra1082 - Are you playing the MIDI drums on your recordings to get that human touch, or you just program them in ? Thanks
Real guitar amps make a huge difference. When the guitars are up front like in the mixes shown here, real amps paired with quality pedals can really carry the mix a long way....
The old stuff I did I played it and the new stuff I programmed it. But either way even when playing it I adjusted velocity and moved stuff around. That’s the beauty of midi there’s no crazy mic bleed and things can be edited with zero problem. And yeah I live amp sims but I feel like I can get something I like better with a real amp head at least. I’ve heard dudes make amazing sounds with sims I’m just not there yet but yeah real amps for me haha
@@castleultra1082 Thanks for responding man. IMO all of the amp sims sound like shit, at least for now. Every digital piece in a recording chain drains a little life out of the song, so it's best to do as little as possible. For example - even Cab IRs don't sound as lively as real cabs, let alone the amp simulations. Rock on :)
@@downcode you know what it is for me about sims? I feel like there’s some kind of digital fizz sound to them and literally every single one and I can never seem to make it go away. Maybe it’s just my ears but that’s my main issue with them. And yeah the second I can get a bigger space to record I’m going real amps and cabs. But for now thank the universe for IR’s! Haha
@@castleultra1082 For sure, I feel like the developers are re-using the same software libraries or something, it's the same with soft synths, they never can really get there... And also the fact when you layer amp sim guitars (double track or quad track) they kind of cancel each other out, instead of sounding more massive, it's pretty strange (I'm talking about recording separate takes ofc)
@@downcode hmmm yeah I never really thought about that but it’s true. I guess there’s a reason why the big artists who have signature amp sims almost always record their albums with real amps 🤷🏼 haha
Whaaaaa ya'll don't 127 every single hit on your drums?! Pffh! ;)
😂
Programmed drums usually only sound fake when its ONE snare with no variation to it. A blast beat with 1 snare sample usually always sounds bad. Also 1 kick sample obviously sounds bad when u have fast double bass parts.
The heaviest guitar tone i've ever heard is from an Amp sim ;)
Who actually uses real amps anyways when recording... its a waste of time.
Unfortunately, people are still brainwashed into thinking real amps sound better than sims. I use both, but in all honesty it's because I love the art of microphone placement on a cab. Amp sims and real amps are indistinguishable in the mix when done right.
I also personally think what inspires you can make a big difference whether a real amp or sim. There’s definitely room for both and so many big albums now have been recorded with Amp sims it’s for sure a thing. In fact just off the top of my head that band called “Spiritbox” that’s blowing up big right now they had amp sims on the last record and that’s the one that’s been putting them on the map
@@castleultra1082 Yup, very true. Meshuggah were using amp sims on the records over 20 years ago as well!
The problem with amp sims, as far as I can tell, is I don't think there's any pick attack, is there? If so then where does it come from? With pickups and an amp you can hear what I call a "K" sound from the pick attack on single notes. It's an absolute must for me, without it the guitars sound lame, notwithstanding the amazing tone itself.
Of course there is. What does your recording chain look like? Are you going direct into an amp sim, or are you going direct into a boost/distortion pedal sim, then into an amp sim, then into a cab sim, then eq'ing a bit, then putting a tiny bit of compression on it? Coz that's how I do it and I have no problems with pick attack? What how much/what kind of gain are you using? Fully cranked high gain distortion will often lose some definition, as will a bass heavy guitar sound. One quick thing you can try is to blend in just a tiny bit of your raw DI track high passed at around 100Hz or so, and a fair bit of compression. Start with the volume at zero and sloooowly bring it up until you can hear it underneath the effected track, then maybe back it off 1-2dB
Really need insights on programming the drum MIDI. Velocity decisions alone are so crucial. Libraries have different sweet spots.
I've found the faster the same drum is struck in succession the lower, and more random in time and velocity it should be. Time meaning moved early or late by a millisecond or so
@@metaltrackmind6851 good way to put it. And the mistakes and changes in velocity for me do not have to be drastic to where it sounds like the drummer can’t play. Most of these choices can’t be noticed. However if you have the drums 100% perfect with every hit maxed out full velocity it sounds super machine like. In my opinion anyway
I have herpes. that is all. thank you for your time and have a great day.