Ironically I think the whole point behind Kanji was that his sexual orientation shouldn't matter, and yet one of the biggest discussion points that surrounds him is his sexuality.
Roobaloob R his main story thread leaves his sexuality ambiguous and it leaves the impression that he was worried about his sexuality rather than outright admitting it. That's why he has a thing for Naoto, who dresses like a guy and why he asks her to 'make him a man' when she signs up for the beauty pageant. Even Kanji says that it shouldn't matter, quote " It ain't a matter of guys or chicks... I'm just scared shitless of being rejected."
Kranku ✞ you do realise that he has just been clearly stated as gay… he is gay and that is that most of the people who try to argue that he is straight or bi is A) they feel unconvertible with it or B) they are Kanji x Naoto shippers
Ryuzaki he was stated gay by his VA based on his subjectivite reasoning of his character, nobody else involved in Kanji's creation has confirmed or denied this. and I'm no shipper, but he does have a clear interest in Naoto in the narrative, being exited for her to enter the pageant and on occasion becoming shy when talking to her, to this extent he could be bi or pan, but like I said the moral of his story is that he learns not to fear his sexuality, so it shouldn't matter.
I thought Kanji was bisexual...I mean he did nosebleed to Chie and Yukiko, he nosebleeded to the thought of Naoto in the swimsuit competition in Yasogami beauty pagent...And he still likes Naoto (Even though she dresses like a guy)
Obito Uchiha so does Naoto is transgender ? beacause she like wearing boy clothe , she not accept herself is a girl , she want become a man detective . so this mean Kajin x Naoto make more scence yaoi couple
bean nguyen Depending on how you interact with Naoto she accepts herself as a women. She wears boy clothes because she thinks they're more comfortable.
I personally believe that Kanji is bisexual. Mainly because of his confusion involving his feelings towards Naoto in the beginning, when Naoto is supposed to be seen as a guy. Once Naoto's true gender comes out, it's obvious he still has a huge crush on her. Plus the obvious line (paraphrased): "It ain't a matter of guys or chicks: I'm just scared shitless of being rejected"
I think the point of Kanji's character was that he would always suppress his feminine qualities (sewing, liking cute things etc) to avoid being chastised by the public and seen as not manly. He was afraid of being judged so he kept these hobbies private. The guy bleached his hair, got piercings, and wore punk clothes not because he wanted to, but that's what he believes that society thinks is considered manly, something that he's always been obsessed over. The guy let societal norms dictate what's considered manly instead of following his own feelings, to a point that he was being a different person that wasn't an accurate depiction of who he truly is. Is Kanji bi? Maybe. But people who put this laser-focus on his sexuality ultimately miss the point of his character.
I agree that people are definitely shrinking Kanji’s character down to gay/straight debates but I think it’s important to have those debates too. The writers obviously intend a meaning when they make a plot, character and script. Kanji’s sexuality was a big part of his character, it’s mentioned a lot, and I mean A LOT. It was left sort of ambiguous because of the stigmatisation of homosexuality I’m guessing but queer coding is a big part of media. They could have made Kanji’s dungeon something related to his so-called “feminine” hobbies but it was related to liking men and his plotline started off with him ending up in sexual confusion because of Naoto. Yes, he has many other aspects of himself that aren’t discussed as much by the community but at the same time, it is important to clarify how much of a queer coded character he is, and how that isn’t really given to us - they had a romance route planned for Yosuke so clearly there was the beginning foundation for an all around more inclusive life/romance simulator. Not to mention it’s probably a hot topic about his sexuality because every time it’s brought up in-game it’s usually attributed to homophobic stereotypes (Yosuke being afraid of sleeping in a tent with Kanji is just one example). I love Kanji’s character, his instinct to help at first thought, but it irks me that his character was insulted and made the victim of slightly homophobic tropes, despite his story being about acceptance. He says he’s fine with a people not accepting him because the investigation team and the kid he gave the dolls to accepted and appreciated him- yet I don’t really see that acceptance portrayed as well as it could have.
@@KaiWills I like your analysis of the characterisation of Kanji. I interpreted Kanji’s masculine persona as the identity that society either sees him as or expects him to be whereas him liking cute things, sewing and that as his true identity and obviously he does not want to be shamed or rejected by society because of his interests. He is expected to act tough and he does that by acting out how a man should be. Another aspect is that Kanji is raised by a single mother and because no father figures were present, let alone how most fathers at the time expect their sons to “act like men” it distorts men’s perception on what it means to be a man. Older parenting styles teach boys to not like cute stuff, or “not be girly” that those who like what is considered traditionally “female” forces them to lie to themselves. These days, it is far more accepted for men to show emotions and to do things that would not have been easily accepted as the game was released in 2009. I think Kanji did like Naoto before finding out she was actually a girl dressing In a masculine way. I don’t know for certain what Kanji’s sexuality is and honestly, for me, this whole game was exploring identity that people have formed themselves vs how society sees identities and societal expectations.
@@TheKewlPerson No real answer cus if you are discussing his sexuality you already don't understand the game. It is clearly stated in the game that it's not about boys or girls. Kanji is no more gay that Teddie or Chie and Yukiko or anyone else.
Eh, I always took to be him being ashamed of having girlier hobbies, and his worry that he may COME OFF as gay, but actually isn't. I say that mainly because he's clearly attracted to Noato once she's revealed as a girl. Though I suppose the argument for bi could be made too, though I feel like games and media in general pretend like bisexuals aren't a thing, you're either straight or gay.
Coming from someone who is bi and isn't accepted in the lgbt movement you hit the nail on the head. Kanji and Naoto's characters were about having hobbies/career that was not typical of their gender and how they deal with it not being the norm, but learn to accept that it's okay to be what you want to be. I don't think kanji is gay but he might be bi. It's mostly not about orientation though.
@@chuvarova6052 Is it true that the LGBT community has groups unaccepting of people who are bi? I've heard reference to that being a thing once or twice before, but I've never looked into it.
@Charlie Boy By the end of the day, the reason why is the idea that marriage is the end game. If you want the concept of bisexuality to be legitimate, make a polygamous society.
@@chuvarova6052 I think his entire complex is the ASSUMPTION of him being gay or bi because of his hobbies. He's about fear of rejection and fear of judgement.
As Kanji put it, "It ain't a matter of dudes or chicks, I'm just scared shitless of being rejected." Not to mention, what appears on the Midnight Channel and what the Shadows are are both ones inner repressed feelings AND what the public wanted to see or assume. That must be why Kanji's Shadow, despite being representative of his softer side, appeared as a gay man; everyone wanted to assume he was. Either way, Kanji and Troy Baker are awesome people!
That's not exactly how it works. As Izanami explains, the public finds entertainment in having famous people get their dirty secrets exposed, and the Shadows use this as an opportunity to expose themselves because they're sick of being suppressed. There's no incentive for them to confirm anything that isn't actually true when they appear on the Midnight Channel. The most that they can do is say things that can be taken out of context like with Shadow Namatame.
@@bardwayer no, the shadows are clearly influenced by the public. Namatame’s shadow says that he killed the first two victims because the investigation team thought he did, even though we all know it was Adachi
I actually got to reference Kanji in a discussion on masculinity in my English teacher last year. My English teacher told me that it was great that I could think out of the box like that. I felt awesome.
Personally, I don't think he's gay. I really think it was more about how Kanji struggles with wanting to appear masculine despite liking "feminine" hobbies. That's just my opinion though. Either way, he's my favorite persona 4 character. (:
That was my thought after looking at the dialogue. At first, between the stereotyping vibes of his shadow, the overall boss with his two side men, i thought that he was struggling with his sexuality. Then I started to look at discussions and the dialogue and I realised that his struggle was over the fact that he wanted to be more manly but was being taunted over him over his "feminine" hobbies.
Aiden Diaz atlus did no such thing. It was Kanjis VA who based it off of his own interpretation of the character. It’s like when mark hamill didn’t agree with Lukes development in episode VIII. What the actor/ VA thinks about a character doesn’t matter anymore than what anyone else does, it’s up to the story and the author/writers. Kanji’s sexuality is purposely ambiguous and people who focus on it over the rest of his development are missing the point.
I think it's interesting how Kanji is just another person struggling with his identity just like almost all of the other characters who have dungeons are, but for some reason he's picked out as being something different. I suppose it's because gay issues are such a hot button topic, but when Troy says "he's just a guy struggling with his identity", that honestly sums up the others, too. All the playable characters do, and this culminates with Teddie who has no idea of what he literally is. But for some reason, people don't look at Kanji this way. They look at Kanji and say "ok, so is he gay or not?"
Kanji doesn’t care whoever he has a relationship with by the end of the game. What matters to him is that persona accepts him with his hobbies/interests or as a person in general
I never really considered Kanji gay, he is just confused since he can't really get along with neither sex, and seems to have a slight preference toward boys only because girls talk behind his back, and seem to judge him more harshly. Plus the fact that his father is absent; he really doesn't know how a man is supposed to act, so he puts all the qualities the media portray about men. And it's all very clear when he meets Naoto, who at first he assumed was a guy, but when he know it's a she he has no problems with it. That's my two cents anyway.
Your shadow is you. His shadow was gay so......... However, they retconned it to just imply he was just feminine and not actually gay. That's why he was sexually interested in Naoto before he found out she wasn't a boy.
Bumbleness Supreme Brady The shadows in P4 are extremes of their insecurities. Just because his shadow was gay does not mean he was; they become much more than the original feelings of the person so that they can be their own thing. You know, the whole "you're not me" thing.
***** u forgot that the midnight channel isn't actually reflecting the affected person's thought, but it is reflecting what the society thought about the affected person. the last boss Izanami already explained this to the protagonist.
chinezeFURY Except for the part where Kanji says after you max his social link that "The other me is me", Kanji's sexuality is constantly being called into question which is actually more of an interesting theme about Kanji than his homosexuality. Kanji is just assumed to be gay because of his feminine interests but is also just assumed to be a sneering punk because of his appearance, Kanji wants to be his own man and clearly has his own way of thinking, however societies assumptions of what his way of thinking actually means without actually knowing anything about him. Tl;DR Kanji is probably gay but that isnt just what his story is about, its about other peoples assumptions stopping you from being yourself.
Kanji gay...? Hmm I don't think so. He's at most bi-curious because he is able of having a crush on Naoto - she was a he when they met. The "same sex" crush added to his hobbies (that he considers unmanly - I don't know why with so many male designers out there...) and his fear of being rejected by girls because of his reputation and attitude, made him think he was gay. He tried to hide those feelings and when his shadow went berserk...well we all know what happened. He sure made me laugh. He's an awesome and interesting character. I'd love him even if he was really gay.
Mikey Russo Yeah, having interest in girls makes him really gay. It's so G-A-Y to also like girls. I can admit he's bi, it's pretty obvious. But fully gay? LOL Please tell me you're joking! :)
He was only interested in Naoto when he thought she was a guy. When he found out she wasn't, he was confused - not relieved. That's why he wanted her to do the swimsuit contest, so he'd know for sure (since he only sees her boy form). In the end of the game, he tells you that the other him IS him, and the only person he seems to be crushing on is the main character. He never even talks about Naoto again.
I think we all sort of misunderstood what Troy and Atlus were getting at here. While Kanji's sexual orientation (Kanji himself, how he presents himself in the real world) is left ambiguous and left for you to decide, I think Troy discussing the whole "gay" aspect was referring moreso to his Shadow. Kanji's own sexuality is left vague, and as Troy said later in this video, that wasn't the most important part of Kanji: it was being true to himself and understanding who he truly is as a person. However, his Shadow (what we P4 players ended up seeing in Kanji's dungeon, the sauna), was very blatantly gay. What likely happened during Troy's session with Kanij is that Atlus told him to be as gay as possible (but also inoffensive) when it came to recording lines made by Shadow Kanji (the "other" Kanji) that manifested in the TV world. As we all know, his Shadow manifested as a very blatantly gay man that talked about finding "sublime boyfriends" and whatnot. What we ended up getting (the way Troy delivered the Shadow's lines) was something...very flamboyant in tone and using gay dialect. They likely brought in the gay discussion during Troy's recording sessions when it came to doing Shadow Kanji and how vastly differently the Shadow was presented from Kanji himself. They used the gay talk to ask Troy to do a very different line delivery for the Shadow (roughneck for Kanji, gay/flamboyant delivery for Shadow). Basically, from what Troy is sounding like, he's talking about his recording of Shadow Kanji's lines during his sessions when working on P4, and the approach Atlus wished to take to emphasize how differently Shadow Kanji is presented from Kanji himself. Atlus used the gay talk to make a very specific approach to the two sides of Kanji and differentiate them, and Troy just recorded from there.
@@ShermTank7272 The shadow isn't exactly the true self, it's a distorted version of a side of one's personality or mindset that one doesn't want to acknowledge. Yukiko isn't really a slutty princess, Rise isn't really a stripper and so on.
@@ShermTank7272 the shadow isn't the true self it's a repressed part of someone that's released and Amplified 100x for example, I'm Asexual but there's part of me that likes girls (I'm Heteroromantic asexual) if that part of me is taken out and amplified it would imply something else entirely Its like taking off the asexual part and you just become as horny as Teddie.
The thing about Kanji is he's main insecurity is liking things that are perceived to be liked by girls and girls only, as such he repressed part of him that likes girly things. Which is not a definitive way to say someone's gay or not. However he seems to be open to the thought of exploring considering he did seem to want to explore it with Naoto before he found out she was a girl.
Anyone who played the game all the way through knows Kanji can't be gay, there are just way too many scenes that prove he likes girls. His shadow and his dungeon were just a result of him being scared of what he might become, since he was attracted to Naoto while she was disguised as a guy. Troy was probably referring to what Atlus said about his shadow self, who is obviously a 110% stereotypical gay male.
I agree that he has some attraction to girls which is why I see Kanji as bisexual. In terms of being attracted to Naoto, tons of people see Naoto as a trans guy, so Kanji's attraction to Naoto is still a man being attracted to a man in many people's eyes.
I feel like Kanji is clearly not gay. The focus was on the struggle of you not being sure of your sexuality, it happens to every dude and it was just exaggerated here.
That is not true. This was a wrong post by tv tropes and he didnt say it staright out. Plus, the anime version (which is obviously a japanese source) says no such lines, and even seems to lean more on him being not gay. Please forget this rumor.
Warning: *Spoilers for The Last of Us Part II ahead* Troy voices Joel in TLOU, while Laura Bailey who played Rise in P4 was Abby. Imagine Rise beating up Kanji with a golf club lol.
On top of the voice actor and the company stating that Kanji IS gay, after playing the game completing all the Social Links, at the end of Kanji's Social Link, Kanji states to the Protagonist: "That other me is me." I honestly don't know how else you could interpret that besides coming out of the closet. But hey, that's just my take on it. Regardless, Persona 4 is an awesome game and Kanji Tatsumi is an awesome character.
I can easily interpret that in another way considering how he still has a crush on Naoto after learning she's a girl. He's accepting that he's unsure about himself, and that he's worried people might consider him gay regarding his "passion for fashion". He's never had to deal with sexuality before, so he doesn't know how to cope. The voice actor is not the writer of the character, so it's not really up to them.
I mean I don't know if Kanji is gay but he likes girls, we know that much To me the shadow is just an exageration of the feminine part that Kanji rejected (just like other shadows in the game, they're not exactly the person per-say they're an over the top embodiment of their buried feelings), I don't see it as "Kanji is gay" (tho he very well might be bi and he seems to be unsure himself) just as Kanji being into feminine things which he clearly feels like he shouldn't (being mocked and all) and is trying to solve it by being aggressive and looking like a scary dude But yeah Kanji is by far the best character in the game imo
I always thought of it more as Kanji questioned his masculinity rather than sexuality, even though it can be tied to it. He just happened to like doing stuff like arts and crafts that are perceived to be feminine. Also he acts a up with Naoto, but it could just be cause she dresses in boy clothes so the argument has merit.
Wait, what? Now all of a sudden, Kanji is gay? I had some arguments with my friend about this topic, but I think most people mistake "Shadows" as literal representations of the characters. That doesn't make any sense. Shadows just represent the character's insecurities in the most extreme way. Sure, Kanji got confused with being attracted to Naoto, which seems that time was a dude, but I thought the main reason his shadow was homosexual in nature because of the fact that he's really into knitting and sewing, and he likes cute stuff, which in my opinion was his main insecurity (since men aren't supposed to be into those things). That doesn't make Naoto transexual or Rise a slut.
There's no definite evidence that says Kanji is gay. So I disagree with him on that point. It's more or less ambiguous, but in my opinion, I don't think Kanji is gay. I think what was shown on the television was a manifestation of a.) Kanji's insecurity about his own sexuality and b.) what the townspeople's *believed* about Kanji's sexuality. But it's true Kanji's storyline/character arc is more focused on the fact that he felt stuck in the confines of a gender binary than about whether or not he was gay. Whether or not Kanji is gay isn't of actual importance in the story's ultimate message.
Frank Da Tank Oh really? As in in-game?? I don't think that's true... the persona 4 project lead people has said that there isn't any official answer. You also have to consider how Japanese culture is not as caught up on the idea of black-and-white sexuality (or really, black-and-white or concrete answers to anything at all) as American culture is -- so I find it hard to believe that they would make it *less* ambiguous in the Japanese version since ambiguity is much more common and acceptable in their storytelling than western storytelling is... just saying.
You said I disagree with "him" like Troy came out and said hes gay. Troy said he asked them whats the character like and Atlus told Troy that he was gay
***** 9/10 times, the manga for these video games was not published by the maker of the game. The Persona 4 manga was not published by atlus and had nothing to do with atlus, it was infact published by ASCII Media Works. They are the ones who named P4MC Souji becuase they needed to give him a name which he did not originally had, and Atlus made the name Yu Naurkami later for the anime and games. Of course they say the games are cannon for better sales but they are the creators and they made it work, its not like its randomly place into the fiction of the stories. Persona Q has time travel involved so thats why the Persona 3 cast are the same age as the Persona 4 cast. Persona Dancing All Night is after the events of Persona 4 and Arena where Yu is visiting and because the shadow world will always exist, they can always be trouble in the future for the cast.... In the game we know Kanji likes Naoto, but the thing is he liked Naoto before he knew she was a guy. He also wanted to keep talking to "him" because he found "him interesting, we dont know what could hapen never if Naoto was really a guy but we do know that there was an attraction there. Kanji liked this boy name Naoto. and even if youre "bi" youre still gay because that means you still find the same sex attractive. And idk if you watched the whole video or not because of some of your comment stating *Just because Troy said Kanji is gay DOESN'T mean Kanji is officially gay. He's a VA, not a directer*, but Troy didnt say, "Yeah, Kanji's gay" Troy said that when he went in to do the VA he asked the director about Kanji's character and the director said, he's gay. So as you said *. Just because Troy said Kanji is gay DOESN'T mean Kanji is officially gay. He's a VA, not a directer* is correct but the director said it, Troy just reconfirmed it...but I think you might need to go back and watch the video again so you can reword your comments correctly
I think Kanji is more bisexual than gay. I mean he's attracted to Naoto both before and after the group discovers she's a girl. Plus, there's his reactions to Chie and Yukiko in their bathing suits. But it doesn't mean he's attracted to guys too. I kinda felt like Kanji is attracted to both genders rather. Although, it is possible that Kanji is pansexual as well because of how straight-forward and honest he is, especially after he conquered his shadow. If Kanji likes a person, be it boy or girl, he'll tell you flat out. That being said, my OTP is KanjixNaoto as one of my favorite LGBT couples in anime/rpgs.
It's amazing to hear the shifts between voices, even when Kanji's being soft-spoken in the game he sounds so different from Troy's regular voice now. I just guessed he was having fun voicing Shadow Kanji, but that kind of expressive range is a real talent!
Kanji is by no means gay, his shadow, sure, it was a manifestation of all his doubts and insecurities born from his fear of rejection. When he met Naoto, he became very confused because he did like Naoto and the way he was being approached made him feel insecure simply because he didnt understand it. When he later learns that Naoto *spoiler* is a girl, he still wants to be with Naoto simply because she is who he wanted to be with. When you get down to it, gay, straight, bisexual, transexual or any other identification are really just labels that we could discard if people only learned to stop being so vain and looked at people for who they are. Kanji, however was branded with "gay" and was so scared of the implications society puts on it that he tried to run away by being the tough, dumb, street punk that doesnt have to worry what people think.
+Dave Konopka I would probably say he's still gay based on his attraction to the male appearance of Naoto and his rejection of women. Sure he has a lot of repressed sexuality issues, but because he has struggled to identify with what he likes, that gives me reason to question if he's straight or not. Only people with sexuality crises tend to be gay, lesbian, bi, etc. Also, the shadow is the self. If you are calling his shadow gay, you're basically also calling Kanji gay. C'mon people didn't y'all play the game?
+LabMember00X I'm well aware of the plothole of the story in terms of consistency and the illusion of "truth" within the game. That still doesn't detract that his true self is a sexually repressed male that struggles with acceptance over his role. It's not a crime that he's gay. In fact, I think it strengthens his character and makes him more memorable as a character that persevered during trying times and found his purpose. The game hints it so much with dialogue, action, and symbolism that it would be quite ignorant for someone to say that Kanji isn't gay. But hey! To each his own, I guess.
I think people give the Naoto stuff _way_ too much weight. He had some vague crush on a person he thought was a man; they didn't get together, it was not reciprocated, and in fact it was pretty much dropped entirely after it came out that Naoto was a girl. By the way, being gay and being a gay stereotype are two very different things; his shadow was obviously the latter, which means he can still be the former, you know! Shadows are just overly exaggerated versions of themselves.
Not to mention he asks Naoto to go in the beauty pageant so he could prove he was attracted to a girl, not a guy. He doesn't reject women, hes afraid of them and their rejection of him. If chie or yukiko had have talked to him first he would've developed a crush on them. He clearly has a "man crush" on Yu.
"Kanji is suspected of many things, including belonging to a biker gang, being a bully, and being homosexual. " ~ P4 Official Design Works Records Kanji isn't a gay. Period. His designer aka Shigenori-san said so :v Atlus Japan >>>>>>>>>>>> Atlus USA + Troy Baker
They aren't their shadows though... the full ending reveals that their "shadow selves" are just how OTHER people in Inaba see them. It's not necessarily a facet of their personality at all. It's also the reason that Nametame's shadow acted like he was the killer even when he wasn't. The team thought he was the killer, so it was reflecting their thoughts.
Nope, how they appear in the midnight channel is how people see them, the shadow they face is their shadow self, which IS a part of themselves they have to accept, and it's based on jungian psychology
@@lucs028 Based, but not accurate. Adachi to Yu, on the other hand. No, you're both wrong. They're not 1:1 copies. They're aspects that they fear may be them. When in actuality, its grossly distorted. His complexes about masculinity vs femininity created his shadow. He accepted the fact that it is okay to like feminine things.
OneManCast disagree the reason they are grossly distorted is because that’s how they see themselves. They see these parts of themselves as such bad things there mind exaggerates it
Everyone here is wrong lol. If they aren't their real Shadows why would they turn into their Personas? Watch the scene with Shadow Namatame again, he doesn't say he's the killer, just that he's angry at the protagonists for preventing him from saving Nanako and that he wants to keep saving people, which he genuinely believed because he didn't know that he was actually endangering everyone yet. Izanami says "Humans ache to expose their suppressed sides, while prying eyes around them are curious to see them laid bare. The want to show, and the want to see... I granted a window that catered to both." Emphasis on BOTH. A Shadow isn't just what you're afraid you MIGHT be, it's not how OTHER people see you, and it's not how you may see yourself. It's the aspects of you that are unacknowledged, denied, and hidden from society. And it's why Adachi wanted to turn everyone into Shadows, he was sick of how suppressed people had to be to live in society and thought people would be free if driven by pure id and instinct. The insistence that Shadows are NOT faithful representations of the person's repressed thoughts and feelings does not make sense with the point of the game or Adachi's motivations.
He's more bisexual than gay in my opinion. He likes "stupid cute shit", but liking stupid cute shit doesn't make a guy gay.. And he has hots for Naoto regardless of her gender. And come on, who doesn't have a crush on Naoto ;)
I still can't believe everyone missed the point about Kanji. The issue wasn't Kanji's sexuality. It was his toxic masculinity, and learning to accept his more feminine attributes.
I see kanji as more of a conversation on gender and masculinity more than anything else. He likes feminine things so he internalizes homophobia from the rest of the world not excepting his interests. He likes feminine things so his small worldview convinces him he must be gay because all feminine men must be gay. Guys who are rejected by women must be gay. The gay kanji in the TV is less a revelation on his sexuality but more his insecurity in his sexuality. He can be 100% straight and kanji shadow kanji still makes complete sense.
I agree. At the time he was conflicted because he found Naoto attractive for a guy, and he's almost relieved when he realizes she was a girl all along. He does end up being shy and then having a nosebleed when he sees all the girls in their bikinis after that camping trip too, heheh. In the bathhouse his shadow says that he was afraid of girls because they made fun of him more aggressively than guys did, but I don't think it was cause he wasn't attracted to them. His VA did a great job though~
I actually never thought he was gay I took it as he liked non manly things and that made him feel insecure about himself like he wasn't manly that's why his shadow was super out there because that's what he knows "men don't sew only women do" as a Hispanic I totally felt that
I needed clarification on this. To me, Kanji is gay and that made him the best character in the game. Too bad he didnt get a relationship in the end, though 🤷♂️
Kanji isn't gay, though. He THOUGHT he was gay because everyone around him kept emasculating him and basically calling him a faggot because of his preferences and personality and where he lived (that cloth shop, his expertise in sewing, etc.). It's because of the society's expectation of what a man "should be" that he began thinking that he wasn't "manly" in the sense that society expected and began to think he was gay. I'm amazed by all these so-called "progressive" and "understanding" people keep pigeonholing Kanji into homosexuality because they prefer it that way, without realizing they are doing exactly what the society that hurt Kanji so much did. He's not gay, at all, and you people who do this are hypocrites.
+Madame Guillotine It was never about dudes or chicks, the guy just wanted to be accepted by someone, anyone. The TV world was showing that desire exaggerated to the max along with the viewers wanted to see, so it can't be said for sure whether Kanji is actually homosexual or not, although it seems more likely that he is not. The game even has him get a nosebleed when he sees the girls in swimsuits, and it has him talk about a girl from the past that he used to like, and other signs that point to this.
DarkChaos He was also looking at the dudes in their swimsuits too, though! The girls just assumed it was about them because the writers wanted slapstick (the humour's pretty forced in this game, tbh). What doesn't make sense there is that homosexuality has nothing to do with wanting acceptance _unless_ it's an underlying reason for someone not being accepted? If his "true self" wasn't gay, there was really no reason for the shadow to be gay at all. Like, Naoto's was focused on gender reassignment because she was pretending to be a man & didn't want to face the restrictions of being a girl in her field of work, right? She isn't actually transgender, but she _was_ trying to pass as a man, and shadows are always just a slightly distorted version of their true feelings pulled to the extreme (surgery, in this case). Being gay vs. being a flamboyant flaming stereotype is the same kind of idea! It's Kanji's personality + the stereotypes of being a gay man that were being distorted, his shadow wouldn't have gone there (would've just gone the effeminate route, which definitely isn't the same thing as some kind of gay bathhouse where he keeps coming onto men?) unless there was a genuine reason for it.
Madame Guillotine He saw the guys in their swimsuits before and didn't have a nosebleed, so yeah, not likely. Did you not play the game at all? What's shown on TV is what the people of Inaba imagine the people on TV to be, what they wanted to see, because they don't want to see the truth, they just want to see what they want to see based on their preconceived notions of particular people. Kanji was wrestling with his gender and what it means to be a man. Kanji has always done what he wanted. He values his freedom more than anything else, but these gender roles restrict Kanji, it takes away from his freedom. Society tells him that he can't have hobbies that they see as "feminine", and that if you do, there's something wrong with you, that you're gay. That's not to say he couldn't be gay, but it certainly isn't proof that he is, far from it. You're completely missing the point if you came to this conclusion, as his internal struggle is something different entirely.
DarkChaos gender & sexuality are very separate things, and "feminine" is far from the same thing as "gay". if it was only about him having feminine hobbies, his shadow would have reflected _that_, not done the whole "gay bath house + flirting with all the male companions" thing. everyone else's shadows were intrinsically tied into who they were as people & the specifics of what they were struggling with. why would kanji's be the only one to deviate from that?
Madame Guillotine As I mentioned before, the TV reflects what the people of Inaba want to see, what they perceive the people on TV to be. They say this in the video game itself, so the fact that you are unaware of this tells me that you have not played the video game to completion. Please, if you have the game, go finish it to completion and then come back to me. Alternatively, if you don't own the game, go watch a walk through on UA-cam. It'll be well worth your time. Tell me, do you think Rise is a stripper, a slut? No? Me neither.
I find it surprising that people are still debating this. Troy himself (who has a deep understanding of most characters he plays) says gay, and Kanji basically comes out in his social link. I guess the debate is whether or not he's bi, which I can see, I think he is possibly bi with a strong preference for men, but I kinda just always thought he was pretty gay lol, I love how Kanji was written, he's a great character with a lot of depth.
Another thing to remember is that the term "gay" is more than being attracted to the same gender. We've seen evidence that Kanji has a thing for Naoto, even after the gender reveal. "Gay" can also be used to describe a lifestyle. Gay can mean being flamboyant and forward about the things you like. Kanji likes to sew, he likes the color pink, he likes cute things. And the more time you spend with him, the more open he is with these likes and desires. It isn't a matter if it's a boy or a girl, he's happy so long as he can be himself around them. At least, that's my perception of the character. The only one who would truly know what was going on in his head would be the man who portrayed him.
I always thought of it more as Kanji questioned his masculinity rather than sexuality, even though it can be tied to it. He just happened to like doing stuff like arts and crafts that are perceived to be feminine. Also he acts a up with Naoto, but it could just be cause she dresses in boy clothes.
I just always considered Kanji to be very insecure and confused about his image that he is driven to a state questioning who his masculinity and sexuality. However I believe that kanji's sexuality isn't important because if it was the main point than wouldn't that be ironic or even hypocritical due to gender stereotypes? So is he gay or not? It really isn't canon what he is nor does it matter.
@@peste4592 No, not talking about the boss shape, which is just symbolical, but the shadow's feelings what it claims. See: "Shadow Yukiko is a boss in Persona 4. It is the Shadow Self of Yukiko Amagi, which represents her feelings of pent-up anger and frustration of being trapped in Inaba."
There are hints at him being homosexual or bisexual at first but those go out of the window when you realise he fancies Naoto (and that's not because she wears boys clothes.) - He likes Naoto because he is plain and simply attracted to her - dressing her up as a girl or a boy won't make a difference.
Kanji is clearly gay, he had a crush with Naoto because Naoto looks good dressing up as a boy; just like some straight men find a drag queen attractive. Like come on guys lol
It's pretty sexist and is against the point of the whole game, even Kanji thought he was gay because everyone on society said that a man shouldn't act feminine or have feminine hobbies, but after accepting himself he learned that his personality doesn't define his orientation neither does the society. It's pretty sad when even the V.A. doesn't get the core message of his character.
No one cares to question WHY he has an attraction to Naoto even after finding out she's a girl. I think the Western version just wants to double down on "he's gay" because they want it to be that way without considering the circumstance regarding Naoto. I think he likes Naoto not because she looks like a guy, but BECAUSE she's ambiguous. The whole point of his story is that he's worried about what his sexuality is, and learns that he should accept himself, and Naoto is perfect for that because she's so ambiguous, that his "orientation" doesn't matter. It's the fact that she's so different that he finds her attractive. TL;DR... Kanji is eccentric deep down, and Naoto being so unique/ambiguous is right up his alley.
@@GemiARC uhhh no. Naoto wanted to be a detective, but she was convinced that only men can be detectives. She never thought she was a man, she just pulled a Mulan and pretended to be a boy so she didnt have to worry about being judged for her detective work. Even her shadow shows that her desire to be a boy is childish because she just wants to be a detective, not that she believes she's a man. She even verbally accepts her womanhood multiple times.
@@GemiARC lol no its not up for debate. They continue to refer to her as She without issue and she accepts her womanhood in the script itself. Your willingness to push a trans identity on her despite her own choices on the matter is concerning.
Sergio Ortiz Idk if you realize this, but the games writing is very transphobic and homophobic to a degree. The fact that you’re okay with an arc where someone who clearly has a problem with their gender identity is told to not question it and should stay female when they have vocalized wanting to be male is worrying to me. I don’t want to make this an issue, so we can just leave it here and agree we won’t see eye to eye on this.
Kanji as gay kinda ruins his character growth... The idea is that Kanji FEARS being gay because he likes "traditionally girly" things. He likes stuffed animals, and sewing and things that society as a whole believes is feminine. His social link is about him coming to terms with the idea that he is who and what he is, and his like or dislike of any activity has no bearing on his sexuality. Him being gay or straight is IRRELEVANT to these proceedings.
Liking men is a traditionally girly thing though. And is generally believed to be feminine. Him coming to terms that he can like feminine things and still be a "real man" is what his S.link is about. He's much more openly interested in men in the Japanese version though.
The point is that Kanji being gay ends up reinforcing gender stereotypes (only girls and gay men can like sewing and cute stuffed animals) instead of breaking them by being straight.
In P4, they heavily, heavily, heavily implied he's gay. If you cannot see that you're just purposely claiming ignorance. However, in subsequent P4 rehashes they toned that down a ton and made him how you described.
I think Kanji is a great, progressive character, not because of his sexuality, but because of his conflicting identity. He's a young man that grew up without a father for part of his life. He's a caring son that loves his mother more than anyone in his life, and because of his fascination with her work, was picked on for something that wasn't "manly". He's a character torn between how he wants to be seen as a "real man" in public and a loving son at home. It's everyone else that labeled him gay.
@Sueya3 Yeah, I think you're right. Really, after the bath house, he didn't really seem like he was totally gay. Like in the game when they had the cultural festival thingy and they had the little runway thing and Kanji was acting like... well... a pervert like when Naoto was coming out. So, I don't really think he's completely gay, and he did kind of say in the game he was just scared of being rejected, then again that could've been him still being afraid of his sexual orientation, but, I dunno
The reason Troy Baker is a perfect role for Kanji because his heroic but violent outlaw tone is a perfect tone for Kanji as imagine it can strike fear to enemies and any outlaw. Matthew is good but not perfect for Kanji because his voice is sound like brutal officer Stryker who act like bent cop as only scare low-level criminal, cowards and civilians but only high level criminal even brave one and rioters can able to fight back like not too scaring to me.
finally playing it now..i personally feel like he is BI, but his struggle was with both identity and toxic masculinity especially with the issue of liking feminine things because of what other people think...Again, it all stems from the patriachal view of what a man should be like..As far as his fear of rejection, essentalially he fears being rejected by society..man P4 is a woke ass game for sure, but some people wouldnt try to admit that
Seeing so many comments of people saying he's either bi or straight makes me think troy was simply saving his ass, and that's not a problem. Like hell i'd want to fight rabid dumb persona fans who get pissy because their theory that's ass backwards isn't canon. It's in the same vein as naoto being trans. Wherein if you complete her social link she confides in you stating she only wanted to be considered male because in her line of work being male is the hierarchy, and comes to terms with herself.
I love how when I first saw Kanji I was like, "Oh, what's his secret? He has a dollie?" Then they got the bath house and I was like "O.O Oh... I see how it is..." XD
Okay but...People who try to shove Kanji into a box of gay and straight, boys and girls, are the people who apparently like...totally missed Kanji's arc? Kanji's whole thing that he was feeling insecure and self conscious about having feminine interests and being attracted to Naoto, who he thought was male. This, coupled with the stereotypical view of gays in Japan, made everyone assume that he was a raging homosexual. He isn't. However, the fact that his Shadow is a flamboyant gay doesn't mean that his true self is 100% straight. That's like...not how Shadows work??? The Shadow is 'the true self', albeit extremely exaggerated. There was a measure of accuracy to the Shadow Kanji. Kanji is slightly effeminate, in the sense that he enjoys feminine activities, and he does have an attraction to men, but that doesn't make him gay. He still finds Naoto attractive, even after he finds out she's female, so there's like...literally no way he can be wholly gay. And he already found her attractive when he thought she was male, so obviously, one can come to the conclusion that he's bi-curious, perhaps even full on bisexual. Whatever he is, it honestly doesn't matter. His sexual orientation should have zero to fucking do with him as a human being anyways. It's the same thing with people INSISTING that Naoto is trans...even though her shadow was a male and she despised the idea of it. Her whole thing wasn't wanting to be a 'strong, capable man', it was wanting to be taken seriously and seeing her femininity as holding her back from achieving that. People try to force all these inaccurate descriptions on these characters without seeing the whole picture...
Thank you UA-cam Algorithm for recommending me this so that I can share my input on the matter. I honestly believe that Kanji is Bi and his whole arc makes him my favorite character. I myself am I a bisexual man, who is very effeminate, and has been so quite from a young age. However despite being so I've always tried my best to suppress that part of myself by acting as manly as possible, especially before coming to terms with my sexuality of liking guys. I never wanted people to perceive me as not man enough because of my sexuality or that certain behavior/personality trait that I carry. This need for masculinity was also even more reinforced when it came to dealing with girls, which just like Kanji's shadows stated is hard because of how judgemental and harsh females can be of a guy's masculinity, especially if it were girls I liked. Thus I ultimately tried(and failed) to put on a facade of masculinity or deny the part of myself that was attracted to guys/effeminate to not feel judged to rejected by those in society, but couldnt since no matter how much I try to suppress it, or deny it, that part of me will always exist and always show up from time to time. I've mentioned this before but Kanji is my all time favorite character of the group because if I was in his place, I too would probably have the same midnight channel program. It's not about your sexuality, whether you like guys or girls, it's about the feeling of judgement from other people and rejection from those people based on those judgments Edit: Also In the game Kanji stated how before his father passed away, he told Kanji that he wasnt man enough and he was disappointed in him. Which, I also heavily relate to as my effeminate nature and my sexuality make me and my father butt heads alot
This is what we in the biz called "projection". Look, if you like feminine things, who cares? Doesn't mean you're bi. Kanji just fears rejection and judgement. Something these "theorists" completely miss. You're judging him as Bi.
Very black & white American attitude. I wish people would stop looking at things in such a simplistic way - a LOT of people are bi to some degree so it's not so clear-cut as people make it out to be. A girl I knew didn't consider herself to be lesbian but still fell in love with one specific girl yet after this girl, she only went with guys again. That's Kanji to me: he was attracted to someone he thought was a boy and got confused and being into sowing didn't help either.
I didn't know that Atlus had actually confirmed, "yes, Kanji is gay." I mean, if they say it, I guess it's true, but he also obviously has feelings for Naoto even after realizing she's a girl. So in my mind, whatever he "really is," his orientation is still Naoto :P OTP, sorry not sorry.
Wow, I had thought the point of Kanji's story was that he thought that him being into patchwork and knitting and such made him gay or less of a man... and that through the story he would learn that being a man isn't about being "macho"... but more that you accept and embrace who you are, regardless of what anyone thinks. But Atlus themselves said he's gay? Well shit, that kinda blows that moral up for me, lol.
I feel like the moral is still whatever you take away from it. Even if atlus says kanji i gay, the game itself can read differently than their interpretation. I still choose to see kanjis story in the way you described because.... regardless of the developers saying one thing, the game itself paints a much different picture.
His character is about accepting that being a man and having """feminine""" interests is not a contradiction. That could include arts and crafts, or it could include liking boys.
He's not gay this is just the va having a surface level understanding of the character he voiced just like the portion of the fandom who thinks kanji is gay
Gay or not, i'll find a way to meet Kanji in the anime world and make him my boyfriend and we'll get married..we will be together forever... But....he's just an anime.... Haha..ha.. *cries at the corner*
Ah I remember those 2009 emo hair days... an emo kid in high school had a fight with one of my friends back in those emo hair days... weird times, weird times.
Well.... Human sexuality is super complex while animal sexuality is the most natural thing ever. Personally I've seen and heard of pets who you could "label". (Black dog who was super manly but only mounted males... Not effeminate at all, and then a male cat who acted completely like a female and was HUGE to boot). Animals don't think about this stuff they just are themselves and that's what I think the point of kanji's character is.
Kanji was never gay, that was just a projection that everyone wanted to see on the TV combined with his inner turmoil for like adorable things. He said it himself "It ain't a matter of dudes or chicks".
Ironically I think the whole point behind Kanji was that his sexual orientation shouldn't matter, and yet one of the biggest discussion points that surrounds him is his sexuality.
Of course it should matter. It's his main story thread.
Roobaloob R his main story thread leaves his sexuality ambiguous and it leaves the impression that he was worried about his sexuality rather than outright admitting it. That's why he has a thing for Naoto, who dresses like a guy and why he asks her to 'make him a man' when she signs up for the beauty pageant.
Even Kanji says that it shouldn't matter, quote " It ain't a matter of guys or chicks... I'm just scared shitless of being rejected."
I honestly believe Kanji is bisexual.
But I agree, one's orientation shouldn't matter.
Kranku ✞ you do realise that he has just been clearly stated as gay… he is gay and that is that most of the people who try to argue that he is straight or bi is A) they feel unconvertible with it or B) they are Kanji x Naoto shippers
Ryuzaki he was stated gay by his VA based on his subjectivite reasoning of his character, nobody else involved in Kanji's creation has confirmed or denied this.
and I'm no shipper, but he does have a clear interest in Naoto in the narrative, being exited for her to enter the pageant and on occasion becoming shy when talking to her, to this extent he could be bi or pan, but like I said the moral of his story is that he learns not to fear his sexuality, so it shouldn't matter.
He's not gay
He's not straight
He's naoto
He's just Naotosexual smh
But Yu is Naoto too.. At least in my playthrough... Wait.. By logical way, am I Kanji then??
Woah. You’re right tho. Naoto is kind of a tomboy but she’s still a girl. Hello from 2020. Not our fault. It’s UA-cam’s.
Robert Kurniawan is Yu You? Or is Yu Yu? Are You You? Or are You Yu? Did You name You Yu Narukame? Or did You name Yu Narukame You? What is You?
Naoto is a chick tho
Well, gay or not, Kanji is still the funniest Persona Character, and his best moment?
BIRTH OF VENUS BITCHES! I WILL BE REBORN DAMNMIT!
if you're gonna quote Kanji, do it right!
"Y-yeah I'm ready to be born, dammit!"
+Koori Kaminari Hello??? Eikichi??
+Koori Kaminari What about "I'm gonna tear it apart and build it twicee as good! I-I'm gonna RENOVATE your ass!"
"You guyz! Everybody at school makes fun of me because I like-"
"WOMEN!"
THAT STILL MAKES ME CHOKE
I thought Kanji was bisexual...I mean he did nosebleed to Chie and Yukiko, he nosebleeded to the thought of Naoto in the swimsuit competition in Yasogami beauty pagent...And he still likes Naoto (Even though she dresses like a guy)
his nosebleed was probably from Yu and Yosuke
Ryuzaki LOL.
The More You Know.
Obito Uchiha so does Naoto is transgender ? beacause she like wearing boy clothe , she not accept herself is a girl , she want become a man detective . so this mean Kajin x Naoto make more scence yaoi couple
bean nguyen Depending on how you interact with Naoto she accepts herself as a women. She wears boy clothes because she thinks they're more comfortable.
I personally believe that Kanji is bisexual. Mainly because of his confusion involving his feelings towards Naoto in the beginning, when Naoto is supposed to be seen as a guy. Once Naoto's true gender comes out, it's obvious he still has a huge crush on her.
Plus the obvious line (paraphrased): "It ain't a matter of guys or chicks: I'm just scared shitless of being rejected"
I'd say pansexual mostly based on the fact he simply doesn't care about gender
3 words
gender doesn't matter
Atlus: Kanji is gay
Troy: Kanji is gay
Random dude: kanji isn’t gay
@@DarkSamurai-you are trying so hard to push the message that Kanji is gay to the point its almost chronically online
@@hecker2309 Kanji is absolutely gay
Troy Baker just knows how his characters work, anime or not. It makes him such a good voice actor
Such a great voice actor
@@AmberAmour i can't tell if this is irony or not
@@mizzix It’s not ironic Troy is one my favorites VAs.
@@AmberAmour ooooh alright, thanks!
I think the point of Kanji's character was that he would always suppress his feminine qualities (sewing, liking cute things etc) to avoid being chastised by the public and seen as not manly. He was afraid of being judged so he kept these hobbies private. The guy bleached his hair, got piercings, and wore punk clothes not because he wanted to, but that's what he believes that society thinks is considered manly, something that he's always been obsessed over. The guy let societal norms dictate what's considered manly instead of following his own feelings, to a point that he was being a different person that wasn't an accurate depiction of who he truly is.
Is Kanji bi? Maybe. But people who put this laser-focus on his sexuality ultimately miss the point of his character.
i agree with you.
I agree that people are definitely shrinking Kanji’s character down to gay/straight debates but I think it’s important to have those debates too. The writers obviously intend a meaning when they make a plot, character and script. Kanji’s sexuality was a big part of his character, it’s mentioned a lot, and I mean A LOT. It was left sort of ambiguous because of the stigmatisation of homosexuality I’m guessing but queer coding is a big part of media. They could have made Kanji’s dungeon something related to his so-called “feminine” hobbies but it was related to liking men and his plotline started off with him ending up in sexual confusion because of Naoto.
Yes, he has many other aspects of himself that aren’t discussed as much by the community but at the same time, it is important to clarify how much of a queer coded character he is, and how that isn’t really given to us - they had a romance route planned for Yosuke so clearly there was the beginning foundation for an all around more inclusive life/romance simulator. Not to mention it’s probably a hot topic about his sexuality because every time it’s brought up in-game it’s usually attributed to homophobic stereotypes (Yosuke being afraid of sleeping in a tent with Kanji is just one example).
I love Kanji’s character, his instinct to help at first thought, but it irks me that his character was insulted and made the victim of slightly homophobic tropes, despite his story being about acceptance. He says he’s fine with a people not accepting him because the investigation team and the kid he gave the dolls to accepted and appreciated him- yet I don’t really see that acceptance portrayed as well as it could have.
@@KaiWills I like your analysis of the characterisation of Kanji. I interpreted Kanji’s masculine persona as the identity that society either sees him as or expects him to be whereas him liking cute things, sewing and that as his true identity and obviously he does not want to be shamed or rejected by society because of his interests. He is expected to act tough and he does that by acting out how a man should be. Another aspect is that Kanji is raised by a single mother and because no father figures were present, let alone how most fathers at the time expect their sons to “act like men” it distorts men’s perception on what it means to be a man. Older parenting styles teach boys to not like cute stuff, or “not be girly” that those who like what is considered traditionally “female” forces them to lie to themselves. These days, it is far more accepted for men to show emotions and to do things that would not have been easily accepted as the game was released in 2009. I think Kanji did like Naoto before finding out she was actually a girl dressing In a masculine way. I don’t know for certain what Kanji’s sexuality is and honestly, for me, this whole game was exploring identity that people have formed themselves vs how society sees identities and societal expectations.
I thought he was bi based on the fact that he still had a crush on Naoto even after he found out she was a girl.
I like to think he's bi because of that
@RaineTCG And your comment has no matter here.
@RaineTCG And what you think doesn't matter either, and since there's no straight out canon answer, so it could be whatever people think it is.
@@TheKewlPerson No real answer cus if you are discussing his sexuality you already don't understand the game. It is clearly stated in the game that it's not about boys or girls. Kanji is no more gay that Teddie or Chie and Yukiko or anyone else.
I tho he's kinda backing down when he found out naoto si a girl
Eh, I always took to be him being ashamed of having girlier hobbies, and his worry that he may COME OFF as gay, but actually isn't. I say that mainly because he's clearly attracted to Noato once she's revealed as a girl. Though I suppose the argument for bi could be made too, though I feel like games and media in general pretend like bisexuals aren't a thing, you're either straight or gay.
Coming from someone who is bi and isn't accepted in the lgbt movement you hit the nail on the head. Kanji and Naoto's characters were about having hobbies/career that was not typical of their gender and how they deal with it not being the norm, but learn to accept that it's okay to be what you want to be. I don't think kanji is gay but he might be bi. It's mostly not about orientation though.
@@chuvarova6052 Is it true that the LGBT community has groups unaccepting of people who are bi? I've heard reference to that being a thing once or twice before, but I've never looked into it.
@@alfthetruelord it is true
@Charlie Boy
By the end of the day, the reason why is the idea that marriage is the end game. If you want the concept of bisexuality to be legitimate, make a polygamous society.
@@chuvarova6052 I think his entire complex is the ASSUMPTION of him being gay or bi because of his hobbies. He's about fear of rejection and fear of judgement.
kanji just doesn’t care and i love him
As Kanji put it, "It ain't a matter of dudes or chicks, I'm just scared shitless of being rejected." Not to mention, what appears on the Midnight Channel and what the Shadows are are both ones inner repressed feelings AND what the public wanted to see or assume. That must be why Kanji's Shadow, despite being representative of his softer side, appeared as a gay man; everyone wanted to assume he was.
Either way, Kanji and Troy Baker are awesome people!
That's not exactly how it works. As Izanami explains, the public finds entertainment in having famous people get their dirty secrets exposed, and the Shadows use this as an opportunity to expose themselves because they're sick of being suppressed. There's no incentive for them to confirm anything that isn't actually true when they appear on the Midnight Channel. The most that they can do is say things that can be taken out of context like with Shadow Namatame.
@@bardwayer no, the shadows are clearly influenced by the public. Namatame’s shadow says that he killed the first two victims because the investigation team thought he did, even though we all know it was Adachi
@@bardwayer You're wrong
I actually got to reference Kanji in a discussion on masculinity in my English teacher last year. My English teacher told me that it was great that I could think out of the box like that. I felt awesome.
That's the truth of the matter though. Its self-fellatio.
Personally, I don't think he's gay. I really think it was more about how Kanji struggles with wanting to appear masculine despite liking "feminine" hobbies. That's just my opinion though. Either way, he's my favorite persona 4 character. (:
Atlus literally said he’s gay.
That was my thought after looking at the dialogue. At first, between the stereotyping vibes of his shadow, the overall boss with his two side men, i thought that he was struggling with his sexuality. Then I started to look at discussions and the dialogue and I realised that his struggle was over the fact that he wanted to be more manly but was being taunted over him over his "feminine" hobbies.
Aiden Diaz atlus did no such thing. It was Kanjis VA who based it off of his own interpretation of the character. It’s like when mark hamill didn’t agree with Lukes development in episode VIII. What the actor/ VA thinks about a character doesn’t matter anymore than what anyone else does, it’s up to the story and the author/writers. Kanji’s sexuality is purposely ambiguous and people who focus on it over the rest of his development are missing the point.
Aiden Diaz he’s definitely not fully gay.
That’s a fact
Idk if he’s bi or straight tho
@@deito3172 he clearly nosebleed seeing the girls on swimsuits...
I think it's interesting how Kanji is just another person struggling with his identity just like almost all of the other characters who have dungeons are, but for some reason he's picked out as being something different. I suppose it's because gay issues are such a hot button topic, but when Troy says "he's just a guy struggling with his identity", that honestly sums up the others, too. All the playable characters do, and this culminates with Teddie who has no idea of what he literally is.
But for some reason, people don't look at Kanji this way. They look at Kanji and say "ok, so is he gay or not?"
The fandom got deep on this one.
Fam, these people are a single toe in the shallow end.
Kanji doesn’t care whoever he has a relationship with by the end of the game. What matters to him is that persona accepts him with his hobbies/interests or as a person in general
I never really considered Kanji gay, he is just confused since he can't really get along with neither sex, and seems to have a slight preference toward boys only because girls talk behind his back, and seem to judge him more harshly. Plus the fact that his father is absent; he really doesn't know how a man is supposed to act, so he puts all the qualities the media portray about men. And it's all very clear when he meets Naoto, who at first he assumed was a guy, but when he know it's a she he has no problems with it. That's my two cents anyway.
Your shadow is you. His shadow was gay so.........
However, they retconned it to just imply he was just feminine and not actually gay. That's why he was sexually interested in Naoto before he found out she wasn't a boy.
Bumbleness Supreme Brady The shadows in P4 are extremes of their insecurities. Just because his shadow was gay does not mean he was; they become much more than the original feelings of the person so that they can be their own thing. You know, the whole "you're not me" thing.
*****
u forgot that the midnight channel isn't actually reflecting the affected person's thought, but it is reflecting what the society thought about the affected person. the last boss Izanami already explained this to the protagonist.
chinezeFURY Except for the part where Kanji says after you max his social link that "The other me is me", Kanji's sexuality is constantly being called into question which is actually more of an interesting theme about Kanji than his homosexuality. Kanji is just assumed to be gay because of his feminine interests but is also just assumed to be a sneering punk because of his appearance, Kanji wants to be his own man and clearly has his own way of thinking, however societies assumptions of what his way of thinking actually means without actually knowing anything about him. Tl;DR Kanji is probably gay but that isnt just what his story is about, its about other peoples assumptions stopping you from being yourself.
Jake Brocksom How the fuck is he probably gay when he likes Naoto?
Kanji gay...?
Hmm I don't think so. He's at most bi-curious because he is able of having a crush on Naoto - she was a he when they met.
The "same sex" crush added to his hobbies (that he considers unmanly - I don't know why with so many male designers out there...) and his fear of being rejected by girls because of his reputation and attitude, made him think he was gay. He tried to hide those feelings and when his shadow went berserk...well we all know what happened. He sure made me laugh.
He's an awesome and interesting character. I'd love him even if he was really gay.
Yeah, sure, ignore the actor and the company who created the character. Why should you take their word for it? lol *eye roll* He's GAY. G-A-Y.
Mikey Russo Yeah, having interest in girls makes him really gay. It's so G-A-Y to also like girls.
I can admit he's bi, it's pretty obvious. But fully gay? LOL Please tell me you're joking! :)
He never likes girls in the game, so I don't know where you're getting that from.
Mikey Russo What? I'm just gonna assume you're trollin' me.
He was only interested in Naoto when he thought she was a guy. When he found out she wasn't, he was confused - not relieved. That's why he wanted her to do the swimsuit contest, so he'd know for sure (since he only sees her boy form). In the end of the game, he tells you that the other him IS him, and the only person he seems to be crushing on is the main character. He never even talks about Naoto again.
I think we all sort of misunderstood what Troy and Atlus were getting at here. While Kanji's sexual orientation (Kanji himself, how he presents himself in the real world) is left ambiguous and left for you to decide, I think Troy discussing the whole "gay" aspect was referring moreso to his Shadow. Kanji's own sexuality is left vague, and as Troy said later in this video, that wasn't the most important part of Kanji: it was being true to himself and understanding who he truly is as a person. However, his Shadow (what we P4 players ended up seeing in Kanji's dungeon, the sauna), was very blatantly gay. What likely happened during Troy's session with Kanij is that Atlus told him to be as gay as possible (but also inoffensive) when it came to recording lines made by Shadow Kanji (the "other" Kanji) that manifested in the TV world. As we all know, his Shadow manifested as a very blatantly gay man that talked about finding "sublime boyfriends" and whatnot. What we ended up getting (the way Troy delivered the Shadow's lines) was something...very flamboyant in tone and using gay dialect. They likely brought in the gay discussion during Troy's recording sessions when it came to doing Shadow Kanji and how vastly differently the Shadow was presented from Kanji himself. They used the gay talk to ask Troy to do a very different line delivery for the Shadow (roughneck for Kanji, gay/flamboyant delivery for Shadow).
Basically, from what Troy is sounding like, he's talking about his recording of Shadow Kanji's lines during his sessions when working on P4, and the approach Atlus wished to take to emphasize how differently Shadow Kanji is presented from Kanji himself. Atlus used the gay talk to make a very specific approach to the two sides of Kanji and differentiate them, and Troy just recorded from there.
But... if the shadow is the true self... wouldn’t that mean that Kanji (the real Kanji) is gay?
@@ShermTank7272 The shadow isn't exactly the true self, it's a distorted version of a side of one's personality or mindset that one doesn't want to acknowledge. Yukiko isn't really a slutty princess, Rise isn't really a stripper and so on.
@@ShermTank7272 The shadow isn't the true self. Its a distorted self, based on psychological perceptions of masculinity and femininity.
@@ShermTank7272 the shadow isn't the true self it's a repressed part of someone that's released and Amplified 100x
for example, I'm Asexual but there's part of me that likes girls (I'm Heteroromantic asexual) if that part of me is taken out and amplified it would imply something else entirely
Its like taking off the asexual part and you just become as horny as Teddie.
The thing about Kanji is he's main insecurity is liking things that are perceived to be liked by girls and girls only, as such he repressed part of him that likes girly things.
Which is not a definitive way to say someone's gay or not.
However he seems to be open to the thought of exploring considering he did seem to want to explore it with Naoto before he found out she was a girl.
Kanji is probably gay, but he's AT LEAST bisexual.
Either way, he's still an awesome dude.
Anyone who played the game all the way through knows Kanji can't be gay, there are just way too many scenes that prove he likes girls. His shadow and his dungeon were just a result of him being scared of what he might become, since he was attracted to Naoto while she was disguised as a guy. Troy was probably referring to what Atlus said about his shadow self, who is obviously a 110% stereotypical gay male.
I agree that he has some attraction to girls which is why I see Kanji as bisexual. In terms of being attracted to Naoto, tons of people see Naoto as a trans guy, so Kanji's attraction to Naoto is still a man being attracted to a man in many people's eyes.
Denial. You have it.
Oh yeah I'm sooo in denial about a character being straight. Keep fighting that battle.
Mikey Russo an agenda. You've got one :^)
I have the same agenda that Atlus and Troy Baker have.
I feel like Kanji is clearly not gay. The focus was on the struggle of you not being sure of your sexuality, it happens to every dude and it was just exaggerated here.
+theweasly in the original version he is gay kanji is gay he originally liked naoto because he thought she was a guy
+Zack Arin ye in the original and in the jp version he straight out says he liked her for being a guy but accepts him as a her
That is not true. This was a wrong post by tv tropes and he didnt say it staright out. Plus, the anime version (which is obviously a japanese source) says no such lines, and even seems to lean more on him being not gay. Please forget this rumor.
theweasly I played the jp version he straight up says he liked her because she was a man and says he enjoys men more
theweasly And the anime was much different than the game
I’m sorry I can’t get over Troy’s outfit that’s some 2000s fashion right there🤣
Warning: *Spoilers for The Last of Us Part II ahead*
Troy voices Joel in TLOU, while Laura Bailey who played Rise in P4 was Abby. Imagine Rise beating up Kanji with a golf club lol.
remember the penguin animal cracker conversation
bruh
Holy shit you are right
@@aerodynamo4874 Rise just fucking yoinks Yu's golf club
@@miguelangeloeiramartins6241 The Last Of Junesu: Part 2
Starring: Nanako as Ellie
On top of the voice actor and the company stating that Kanji IS gay, after playing the game completing all the Social Links, at the end of Kanji's Social Link, Kanji states to the Protagonist: "That other me is me." I honestly don't know how else you could interpret that besides coming out of the closet. But hey, that's just my take on it. Regardless, Persona 4 is an awesome game and Kanji Tatsumi is an awesome character.
I can easily interpret that in another way considering how he still has a crush on Naoto after learning she's a girl.
He's accepting that he's unsure about himself, and that he's worried people might consider him gay regarding his "passion for fashion". He's never had to deal with sexuality before, so he doesn't know how to cope. The voice actor is not the writer of the character, so it's not really up to them.
I mean I don't know if Kanji is gay but he likes girls, we know that much
To me the shadow is just an exageration of the feminine part that Kanji rejected (just like other shadows in the game, they're not exactly the person per-say they're an over the top embodiment of their buried feelings), I don't see it as "Kanji is gay" (tho he very well might be bi and he seems to be unsure himself) just as Kanji being into feminine things which he clearly feels like he shouldn't (being mocked and all) and is trying to solve it by being aggressive and looking like a scary dude
But yeah Kanji is by far the best character in the game imo
I always thought of it more as Kanji questioned his masculinity rather than sexuality, even though it can be tied to it. He just happened to like doing stuff like arts and crafts that are perceived to be feminine. Also he acts a up with Naoto, but it could just be cause she dresses in boy clothes so the argument has merit.
Here's how you interpret it. You interpret it because those theories you guys make, are what created his shadow to begin with.
@@Igneeka Adachi, sir.
Oh my god, Troy's "shotgun" haircut! I had it too back then.
So yeah, your kanji. [Guitar solo]
Button mashing dialogue skippers on their way to say Kanji is gay and Naoto trans
They probably never played the game to begin with
Liking tomboys and manly things dosen't make you bi or gay
Kanji is easily bi or pan and Naoto isn't trans. Don't put everyone in the same boat.
Kanji has definitely become one of my favorite characters in all of entertainment media
Holly shit this guy voiced Joel from The Last of Us
Wait, what? Now all of a sudden, Kanji is gay? I had some arguments with my friend about this topic, but I think most people mistake "Shadows" as literal representations of the characters. That doesn't make any sense. Shadows just represent the character's insecurities in the most extreme way. Sure, Kanji got confused with being attracted to Naoto, which seems that time was a dude, but I thought the main reason his shadow was homosexual in nature because of the fact that he's really into knitting and sewing, and he likes cute stuff, which in my opinion was his main insecurity (since men aren't supposed to be into those things). That doesn't make Naoto transexual or Rise a slut.
The most telling line Kanji ever said was "It ain't got nothin' to do with dudes or chicks...I'm just scared shit of being rejected."
+enfrahg slut = a woman who has many casual sexual partners. She's just flirting with the MC; it's not like she's flirting with everyone on the team.
@@rebelpoxy her shadow is a stripper. That's what they're talking about
It's like the majority of the people here never played the game jesus
Honestly, i just thought he was a really feminine dude.
Ah a comment that was not made a year or years ago
@Humble Growings
That is because he is. Most people theorize on projection.
OneManCast Not everything is projecting, it was heavily implied that he was interested in Naoto when he thought he was a boy
There's no definite evidence that says Kanji is gay. So I disagree with him on that point. It's more or less ambiguous, but in my opinion, I don't think Kanji is gay. I think what was shown on the television was a manifestation of a.) Kanji's insecurity about his own sexuality and b.) what the townspeople's *believed* about Kanji's sexuality. But it's true Kanji's storyline/character arc is more focused on the fact that he felt stuck in the confines of a gender binary than about whether or not he was gay. Whether or not Kanji is gay isn't of actual importance in the story's ultimate message.
in the Japanese version he eventually come out of the closet, but that stayed in japan because they did not want to offend anyone
Frank Da Tank Oh really? As in in-game?? I don't think that's true... the persona 4 project lead people has said that there isn't any official answer. You also have to consider how Japanese culture is not as caught up on the idea of black-and-white sexuality (or really, black-and-white or concrete answers to anything at all) as American culture is -- so I find it hard to believe that they would make it *less* ambiguous in the Japanese version since ambiguity is much more common and acceptable in their storytelling than western storytelling is... just saying.
SelphieFairy
I dont know maybe its s combination of mixed info and my horrid skills of speaking japanese
You said I disagree with "him" like Troy came out and said hes gay. Troy said he asked them whats the character like and Atlus told Troy that he was gay
***** 9/10 times, the manga for these video games was not published by the maker of the game. The Persona 4 manga was not published by atlus and had nothing to do with atlus, it was infact published by ASCII Media Works. They are the ones who named P4MC Souji becuase they needed to give him a name which he did not originally had, and Atlus made the name Yu Naurkami later for the anime and games. Of course they say the games are cannon for better sales but they are the creators and they made it work, its not like its randomly place into the fiction of the stories. Persona Q has time travel involved so thats why the Persona 3 cast are the same age as the Persona 4 cast. Persona Dancing All Night is after the events of Persona 4 and Arena where Yu is visiting and because the shadow world will always exist, they can always be trouble in the future for the cast.... In the game we know Kanji likes Naoto, but the thing is he liked Naoto before he knew she was a guy. He also wanted to keep talking to "him" because he found "him interesting, we dont know what could hapen never if Naoto was really a guy but we do know that there was an attraction there. Kanji liked this boy name Naoto. and even if youre "bi" youre still gay because that means you still find the same sex attractive. And idk if you watched the whole video or not because of some of your comment stating *Just because Troy said Kanji is gay DOESN'T mean Kanji is officially gay. He's a VA, not a directer*, but Troy didnt say, "Yeah, Kanji's gay" Troy said that when he went in to do the VA he asked the director about Kanji's character and the director said, he's gay. So as you said *. Just because Troy said Kanji is gay DOESN'T mean Kanji is officially gay. He's a VA, not a directer* is correct but the director said it, Troy just reconfirmed it...but I think you might need to go back and watch the video again so you can reword your comments correctly
I think Kanji is more bisexual than gay. I mean he's attracted to Naoto both before and after the group discovers she's a girl. Plus, there's his reactions to Chie and Yukiko in their bathing suits. But it doesn't mean he's attracted to guys too. I kinda felt like Kanji is attracted to both genders rather. Although, it is possible that Kanji is pansexual as well because of how straight-forward and honest he is, especially after he conquered his shadow. If Kanji likes a person, be it boy or girl, he'll tell you flat out. That being said, my OTP is KanjixNaoto as one of my favorite LGBT couples in anime/rpgs.
It's amazing to hear the shifts between voices, even when Kanji's being soft-spoken in the game he sounds so different from Troy's regular voice now. I just guessed he was having fun voicing Shadow Kanji, but that kind of expressive range is a real talent!
Kanji is by no means gay, his shadow, sure, it was a manifestation of all his doubts and insecurities born from his fear of rejection. When he met Naoto, he became very confused because he did like Naoto and the way he was being approached made him feel insecure simply because he didnt understand it. When he later learns that Naoto *spoiler* is a girl, he still wants to be with Naoto simply because she is who he wanted to be with. When you get down to it, gay, straight, bisexual, transexual or any other identification are really just labels that we could discard if people only learned to stop being so vain and looked at people for who they are. Kanji, however was branded with "gay" and was so scared of the implications society puts on it that he tried to run away by being the tough, dumb, street punk that doesnt have to worry what people think.
I believe the Shadow was definitely gay, but the real Kanji is more ambiguous due to his relationship/feelings for Naoto.
+Dave Konopka I would probably say he's still gay based on his attraction to the male appearance of Naoto and his rejection of women. Sure he has a lot of repressed sexuality issues, but because he has struggled to identify with what he likes, that gives me reason to question if he's straight or not. Only people with sexuality crises tend to be gay, lesbian, bi, etc.
Also, the shadow is the self. If you are calling his shadow gay, you're basically also calling Kanji gay. C'mon people didn't y'all play the game?
+LabMember00X I'm well aware of the plothole of the story in terms of consistency and the illusion of "truth" within the game. That still doesn't detract that his true self is a sexually repressed male that struggles with acceptance over his role. It's not a crime that he's gay. In fact, I think it strengthens his character and makes him more memorable as a character that persevered during trying times and found his purpose.
The game hints it so much with dialogue, action, and symbolism that it would be quite ignorant for someone to say that Kanji isn't gay. But hey! To each his own, I guess.
I think people give the Naoto stuff _way_ too much weight. He had some vague crush on a person he thought was a man; they didn't get together, it was not reciprocated, and in fact it was pretty much dropped entirely after it came out that Naoto was a girl.
By the way, being gay and being a gay stereotype are two very different things; his shadow was obviously the latter, which means he can still be the former, you know! Shadows are just overly exaggerated versions of themselves.
Not to mention he asks Naoto to go in the beauty pageant so he could prove he was attracted to a girl, not a guy. He doesn't reject women, hes afraid of them and their rejection of him.
If chie or yukiko had have talked to him first he would've developed a crush on them. He clearly has a "man crush" on Yu.
"Kanji is suspected of many things, including belonging to a biker gang, being a bully, and being homosexual. " ~ P4 Official Design Works Records
Kanji isn't a gay. Period. His designer aka Shigenori-san said so :v
Atlus Japan >>>>>>>>>>>> Atlus USA + Troy Baker
They aren't their shadows though... the full ending reveals that their "shadow selves" are just how OTHER people in Inaba see them. It's not necessarily a facet of their personality at all. It's also the reason that Nametame's shadow acted like he was the killer even when he wasn't. The team thought he was the killer, so it was reflecting their thoughts.
Nope, how they appear in the midnight channel is how people see them, the shadow they face is their shadow self, which IS a part of themselves they have to accept, and it's based on jungian psychology
@@lucs028 Based, but not accurate. Adachi to Yu, on the other hand.
No, you're both wrong. They're not 1:1 copies. They're aspects that they fear may be them. When in actuality, its grossly distorted. His complexes about masculinity vs femininity created his shadow. He accepted the fact that it is okay to like feminine things.
OneManCast disagree the reason they are grossly distorted is because that’s how they see themselves. They see these parts of themselves as such bad things there mind exaggerates it
Everyone here is wrong lol. If they aren't their real Shadows why would they turn into their Personas? Watch the scene with Shadow Namatame again, he doesn't say he's the killer, just that he's angry at the protagonists for preventing him from saving Nanako and that he wants to keep saving people, which he genuinely believed because he didn't know that he was actually endangering everyone yet. Izanami says "Humans ache to expose their suppressed sides, while prying eyes around them are curious to see them laid bare. The want to show, and the want to see... I granted a window that catered to both." Emphasis on BOTH. A Shadow isn't just what you're afraid you MIGHT be, it's not how OTHER people see you, and it's not how you may see yourself. It's the aspects of you that are unacknowledged, denied, and hidden from society. And it's why Adachi wanted to turn everyone into Shadows, he was sick of how suppressed people had to be to live in society and thought people would be free if driven by pure id and instinct. The insistence that Shadows are NOT faithful representations of the person's repressed thoughts and feelings does not make sense with the point of the game or Adachi's motivations.
He's more bisexual than gay in my opinion.
He likes "stupid cute shit", but liking stupid cute shit doesn't make a guy gay..
And he has hots for Naoto regardless of her gender.
And come on, who doesn't have a crush on Naoto ;)
I still can't believe everyone missed the point about Kanji. The issue wasn't Kanji's sexuality. It was his toxic masculinity, and learning to accept his more feminine attributes.
"Toxic masculinity" is not a real thing. Just shrinks demonizing a good thing.
I see kanji as more of a conversation on gender and masculinity more than anything else. He likes feminine things so he internalizes homophobia from the rest of the world not excepting his interests. He likes feminine things so his small worldview convinces him he must be gay because all feminine men must be gay. Guys who are rejected by women must be gay. The gay kanji in the TV is less a revelation on his sexuality but more his insecurity in his sexuality. He can be 100% straight and kanji shadow kanji still makes complete sense.
10 years later he’ll need to talk about another controversy with Joel
I agree. At the time he was conflicted because he found Naoto attractive for a guy, and he's almost relieved when he realizes she was a girl all along. He does end up being shy and then having a nosebleed when he sees all the girls in their bikinis after that camping trip too, heheh. In the bathhouse his shadow says that he was afraid of girls because they made fun of him more aggressively than guys did, but I don't think it was cause he wasn't attracted to them. His VA did a great job though~
Its funny how everyone just heard that Kanji is gay yet, people are still in denial about his sexuality. He's gay, get over it.
I actually never thought he was gay I took it as he liked non manly things and that made him feel insecure about himself like he wasn't manly that's why his shadow was super out there because that's what he knows "men don't sew only women do" as a Hispanic I totally felt that
@pazmaster59
That's the normal reaction.
I needed clarification on this. To me, Kanji is gay and that made him the best character in the game. Too bad he didnt get a relationship in the end, though 🤷♂️
If anything, Yosuke's the gay one. Kanji just likes Naoto
Kanji isn't gay, though. He THOUGHT he was gay because everyone around him kept emasculating him and basically calling him a faggot because of his preferences and personality and where he lived (that cloth shop, his expertise in sewing, etc.). It's because of the society's expectation of what a man "should be" that he began thinking that he wasn't "manly" in the sense that society expected and began to think he was gay.
I'm amazed by all these so-called "progressive" and "understanding" people keep pigeonholing Kanji into homosexuality because they prefer it that way, without realizing they are doing exactly what the society that hurt Kanji so much did. He's not gay, at all, and you people who do this are hypocrites.
+Madame Guillotine It was never about dudes or chicks, the guy just wanted to be accepted by someone, anyone. The TV world was showing that desire exaggerated to the max along with the viewers wanted to see, so it can't be said for sure whether Kanji is actually homosexual or not, although it seems more likely that he is not. The game even has him get a nosebleed when he sees the girls in swimsuits, and it has him talk about a girl from the past that he used to like, and other signs that point to this.
DarkChaos He was also looking at the dudes in their swimsuits too, though! The girls just assumed it was about them because the writers wanted slapstick (the humour's pretty forced in this game, tbh).
What doesn't make sense there is that homosexuality has nothing to do with wanting acceptance _unless_ it's an underlying reason for someone not being accepted? If his "true self" wasn't gay, there was really no reason for the shadow to be gay at all.
Like, Naoto's was focused on gender reassignment because she was pretending to be a man & didn't want to face the restrictions of being a girl in her field of work, right? She isn't actually transgender, but she _was_ trying to pass as a man, and shadows are always just a slightly distorted version of their true feelings pulled to the extreme (surgery, in this case).
Being gay vs. being a flamboyant flaming stereotype is the same kind of idea! It's Kanji's personality + the stereotypes of being a gay man that were being distorted, his shadow wouldn't have gone there (would've just gone the effeminate route, which definitely isn't the same thing as some kind of gay bathhouse where he keeps coming onto men?) unless there was a genuine reason for it.
Madame Guillotine He saw the guys in their swimsuits before and didn't have a nosebleed, so yeah, not likely.
Did you not play the game at all? What's shown on TV is what the people of Inaba imagine the people on TV to be, what they wanted to see, because they don't want to see the truth, they just want to see what they want to see based on their preconceived notions of particular people. Kanji was wrestling with his gender and what it means to be a man. Kanji has always done what he wanted. He values his freedom more than anything else, but these gender roles restrict Kanji, it takes away from his freedom. Society tells him that he can't have hobbies that they see as "feminine", and that if you do, there's something wrong with you, that you're gay. That's not to say he couldn't be gay, but it certainly isn't proof that he is, far from it. You're completely missing the point if you came to this conclusion, as his internal struggle is something different entirely.
DarkChaos gender & sexuality are very separate things, and "feminine" is far from the same thing as "gay". if it was only about him having feminine hobbies, his shadow would have reflected _that_, not done the whole "gay bath house + flirting with all the male companions" thing.
everyone else's shadows were intrinsically tied into who they were as people & the specifics of what they were struggling with. why would kanji's be the only one to deviate from that?
Madame Guillotine As I mentioned before, the TV reflects what the people of Inaba want to see, what they perceive the people on TV to be. They say this in the video game itself, so the fact that you are unaware of this tells me that you have not played the video game to completion. Please, if you have the game, go finish it to completion and then come back to me. Alternatively, if you don't own the game, go watch a walk through on UA-cam. It'll be well worth your time.
Tell me, do you think Rise is a stripper, a slut? No? Me neither.
I find it surprising that people are still debating this. Troy himself (who has a deep understanding of most characters he plays) says gay, and Kanji basically comes out in his social link. I guess the debate is whether or not he's bi, which I can see, I think he is possibly bi with a strong preference for men, but I kinda just always thought he was pretty gay lol, I love how Kanji was written, he's a great character with a lot of depth.
Haru was teased at the beginning of the video wow
Another thing to remember is that the term "gay" is more than being attracted to the same gender. We've seen evidence that Kanji has a thing for Naoto, even after the gender reveal. "Gay" can also be used to describe a lifestyle. Gay can mean being flamboyant and forward about the things you like. Kanji likes to sew, he likes the color pink, he likes cute things. And the more time you spend with him, the more open he is with these likes and desires. It isn't a matter if it's a boy or a girl, he's happy so long as he can be himself around them. At least, that's my perception of the character. The only one who would truly know what was going on in his head would be the man who portrayed him.
I always thought of it more as Kanji questioned his masculinity rather than sexuality, even though it can be tied to it. He just happened to like doing stuff like arts and crafts that are perceived to be feminine. Also he acts a up with Naoto, but it could just be cause she dresses in boy clothes.
I just always considered Kanji to be very insecure and confused about his image that he is driven to a state questioning who his masculinity and sexuality. However I believe that kanji's sexuality isn't important because if it was the main point than wouldn't that be ironic or even hypocritical due to gender stereotypes? So is he gay or not? It really isn't canon what he is nor does it matter.
>His shadow likes men
>His shadow is part of what he is
>He likes men
@@dorime5018 so yukiko is a giant bird and rise a stripper, right
@@peste4592 No, not talking about the boss shape, which is just symbolical, but the shadow's feelings what it claims.
See:
"Shadow Yukiko is a boss in Persona 4. It is the Shadow Self of Yukiko Amagi, which represents her feelings of pent-up anger and frustration of being trapped in Inaba."
There are hints at him being homosexual or bisexual at first but those go out of the window when you realise he fancies Naoto (and that's not because she wears boys clothes.) - He likes Naoto because he is plain and simply attracted to her - dressing her up as a girl or a boy won't make a difference.
I love kanji not that way but even if he's gay
Kanji is clearly gay, he had a crush with Naoto because Naoto looks good dressing up as a boy; just like some straight men find a drag queen attractive. Like come on guys lol
It's pretty sexist and is against the point of the whole game, even Kanji thought he was gay because everyone on society said that a man shouldn't act feminine or have feminine hobbies, but after accepting himself he learned that his personality doesn't define his orientation neither does the society. It's pretty sad when even the V.A. doesn't get the core message of his character.
This is how you do it. Hate it when shows makes a character being make one of its main personality traits
I just fucking noticed Troy Baker is also the voice actor for one of the protagonist voices in Saints Row...
Lol. It's like people didn't even play the game or pay attention to his story.
No one cares to question WHY he has an attraction to Naoto even after finding out she's a girl. I think the Western version just wants to double down on "he's gay" because they want it to be that way without considering the circumstance regarding Naoto. I think he likes Naoto not because she looks like a guy, but BECAUSE she's ambiguous. The whole point of his story is that he's worried about what his sexuality is, and learns that he should accept himself, and Naoto is perfect for that because she's so ambiguous, that his "orientation" doesn't matter. It's the fact that she's so different that he finds her attractive.
TL;DR... Kanji is eccentric deep down, and Naoto being so unique/ambiguous is right up his alley.
Naoto is trans tho. FTM. He stated before he wanted surgery done. I personally think it was he was gay no matter what
@@GemiARC uhhh no. Naoto wanted to be a detective, but she was convinced that only men can be detectives. She never thought she was a man, she just pulled a Mulan and pretended to be a boy so she didnt have to worry about being judged for her detective work. Even her shadow shows that her desire to be a boy is childish because she just wants to be a detective, not that she believes she's a man. She even verbally accepts her womanhood multiple times.
Sergio Ortiz Eh, guess it’s up for debate, for me he’s a trans male
@@GemiARC lol no its not up for debate. They continue to refer to her as She without issue and she accepts her womanhood in the script itself. Your willingness to push a trans identity on her despite her own choices on the matter is concerning.
Sergio Ortiz Idk if you realize this, but the games writing is very transphobic and homophobic to a degree. The fact that you’re okay with an arc where someone who clearly has a problem with their gender identity is told to not question it and should stay female when they have vocalized wanting to be male is worrying to me. I don’t want to make this an issue, so we can just leave it here and agree we won’t see eye to eye on this.
WTF I had no idea Troy voiced Kanji.
Thanks. That had completely gone over my head the first time.
If the voice actor of the character says he's gay who spent dozens if not more hours voicing this character... he's gay.
I'm glad I was recommended this video.
I always thought Troy is Vic's successor in a way. They're both awesome at what they do.
Kanji as gay kinda ruins his character growth... The idea is that Kanji FEARS being gay because he likes "traditionally girly" things. He likes stuffed animals, and sewing and things that society as a whole believes is feminine. His social link is about him coming to terms with the idea that he is who and what he is, and his like or dislike of any activity has no bearing on his sexuality.
Him being gay or straight is IRRELEVANT to these proceedings.
Liking men is a traditionally girly thing though. And is generally believed to be feminine. Him coming to terms that he can like feminine things and still be a "real man" is what his S.link is about.
He's much more openly interested in men in the Japanese version though.
He's gay...Whatever even Shinobu Sensui is Gay but he's an amazing Villain
The point is that Kanji being gay ends up reinforcing gender stereotypes (only girls and gay men can like sewing and cute stuffed animals) instead of breaking them by being straight.
In P4, they heavily, heavily, heavily implied he's gay. If you cannot see that you're just purposely claiming ignorance. However, in subsequent P4 rehashes they toned that down a ton and made him how you described.
I have the original P4. Kanji is homophobic but he shows no signs of being gay. He is "shipped" with a female.
i swear he is wearing a l'cie mark neclace
I think Kanji is a great, progressive character, not because of his sexuality, but because of his conflicting identity. He's a young man that grew up without a father for part of his life. He's a caring son that loves his mother more than anyone in his life, and because of his fascination with her work, was picked on for something that wasn't "manly". He's a character torn between how he wants to be seen as a "real man" in public and a loving son at home. It's everyone else that labeled him gay.
In the anime he said he thought he was gay but he really like cute stuff
@Sueya3 Yeah, I think you're right. Really, after the bath house, he didn't really seem like he was totally gay. Like in the game when they had the cultural festival thingy and they had the little runway thing and Kanji was acting like... well... a pervert like when Naoto was coming out. So, I don't really think he's completely gay, and he did kind of say in the game he was just scared of being rejected, then again that could've been him still being afraid of his sexual orientation, but, I dunno
Bro didn't understand the character he played, lmao.
The reason Troy Baker is a perfect role for Kanji because his heroic but violent outlaw tone is a perfect tone for Kanji as imagine it can strike fear to enemies and any outlaw. Matthew is good but not perfect for Kanji because his voice is sound like brutal officer Stryker who act like bent cop as only scare low-level criminal, cowards and civilians but only high level criminal even brave one and rioters can able to fight back like not too scaring to me.
finally playing it now..i personally feel like he is BI, but his struggle was with both identity and toxic masculinity especially with the issue of liking feminine things because of what other people think...Again, it all stems from the patriachal view of what a man should be like..As far as his fear of rejection, essentalially he fears being rejected by society..man P4 is a woke ass game for sure, but some people wouldnt try to admit that
Seeing so many comments of people saying he's either bi or straight makes me think troy was simply saving his ass, and that's not a problem. Like hell i'd want to fight rabid dumb persona fans who get pissy because their theory that's ass backwards isn't canon. It's in the same vein as naoto being trans. Wherein if you complete her social link she confides in you stating she only wanted to be considered male because in her line of work being male is the hierarchy, and comes to terms with herself.
Man Kanji ain't gay he's just angry.
He’s gay and a total pervert.
"Kanji is totally straight!!!" You're wrong ,
I love how when I first saw Kanji I was like, "Oh, what's his secret? He has a dollie?" Then they got the bath house and I was like "O.O Oh... I see how it is..." XD
Kanji isn't gay. He thought he was gay for Naoto but turns out he's straight for her.
That's what we call bisexuality, pal
But if he blushes when people talk about Naoto doesnt that make him Bi?
Kanji is bi, that said the most important thing about his character is how unimportant his sexuality is in the grand scheme of things
Reread your sentence and then try to bullshit me on how it makes sense.
Okay but...People who try to shove Kanji into a box of gay and straight, boys and girls, are the people who apparently like...totally missed Kanji's arc? Kanji's whole thing that he was feeling insecure and self conscious about having feminine interests and being attracted to Naoto, who he thought was male. This, coupled with the stereotypical view of gays in Japan, made everyone assume that he was a raging homosexual. He isn't. However, the fact that his Shadow is a flamboyant gay doesn't mean that his true self is 100% straight. That's like...not how Shadows work??? The Shadow is 'the true self', albeit extremely exaggerated. There was a measure of accuracy to the Shadow Kanji. Kanji is slightly effeminate, in the sense that he enjoys feminine activities, and he does have an attraction to men, but that doesn't make him gay. He still finds Naoto attractive, even after he finds out she's female, so there's like...literally no way he can be wholly gay. And he already found her attractive when he thought she was male, so obviously, one can come to the conclusion that he's bi-curious, perhaps even full on bisexual. Whatever he is, it honestly doesn't matter. His sexual orientation should have zero to fucking do with him as a human being anyways.
It's the same thing with people INSISTING that Naoto is trans...even though her shadow was a male and she despised the idea of it. Her whole thing wasn't wanting to be a 'strong, capable man', it was wanting to be taken seriously and seeing her femininity as holding her back from achieving that. People try to force all these inaccurate descriptions on these characters without seeing the whole picture...
Thank you UA-cam Algorithm for recommending me this so that I can share my input on the matter. I honestly believe that Kanji is Bi and his whole arc makes him my favorite character. I myself am I a bisexual man, who is very effeminate, and has been so quite from a young age. However despite being so I've always tried my best to suppress that part of myself by acting as manly as possible, especially before coming to terms with my sexuality of liking guys. I never wanted people to perceive me as not man enough because of my sexuality or that certain behavior/personality trait that I carry. This need for masculinity was also even more reinforced when it came to dealing with girls, which just like Kanji's shadows stated is hard because of how judgemental and harsh females can be of a guy's masculinity, especially if it were girls I liked. Thus I ultimately tried(and failed) to put on a facade of masculinity or deny the part of myself that was attracted to guys/effeminate to not feel judged to rejected by those in society, but couldnt since no matter how much I try to suppress it, or deny it, that part of me will always exist and always show up from time to time. I've mentioned this before but Kanji is my all time favorite character of the group because if I was in his place, I too would probably have the same midnight channel program. It's not about your sexuality, whether you like guys or girls, it's about the feeling of judgement from other people and rejection from those people based on those judgments
Edit: Also In the game Kanji stated how before his father passed away, he told Kanji that he wasnt man enough and he was disappointed in him. Which, I also heavily relate to as my effeminate nature and my sexuality make me and my father butt heads alot
This is what we in the biz called "projection". Look, if you like feminine things, who cares? Doesn't mean you're bi. Kanji just fears rejection and judgement. Something these "theorists" completely miss. You're judging him as Bi.
Kanji clearly loves Naoto and is attracted to her, but he also clearly finds masculine individuals attractive too. So he's either pan or bi.
The end.
No, not the end. Might want to get more than a toe in the shallow end.
I think the term "Pansexual" is more appropiate.
Very black & white American attitude. I wish people would stop looking at things in such a simplistic way - a LOT of people are bi to some degree so it's not so clear-cut as people make it out to be.
A girl I knew didn't consider herself to be lesbian but still fell in love with one specific girl yet after this girl, she only went with guys again. That's Kanji to me: he was attracted to someone he thought was a boy and got confused and being into sowing didn't help either.
I didn't know that Atlus had actually confirmed, "yes, Kanji is gay." I mean, if they say it, I guess it's true, but he also obviously has feelings for Naoto even after realizing she's a girl. So in my mind, whatever he "really is," his orientation is still Naoto :P OTP, sorry not sorry.
No, just because they say something, doesn't make it so.
Evidence to the contrary overrides author input. "Word of God" is not absolute.
@@OneManCast The comment has 7 years old ...
Me. Watching everyone freaking out about naoto not being trans and I’m here just laughing at them all.
This is the closure I needed, thank you Troy and all your hard work ! specially in #ff13 💐💙
Oh damn, he does voice Snow!!! Great voice actor
I watched this thinking there was tension between switching voice actors but I wrong.
Wow, I had thought the point of Kanji's story was that he thought that him being into patchwork and knitting and such made him gay or less of a man... and that through the story he would learn that being a man isn't about being "macho"... but more that you accept and embrace who you are, regardless of what anyone thinks. But Atlus themselves said he's gay? Well shit, that kinda blows that moral up for me, lol.
I feel like the moral is still whatever you take away from it. Even if atlus says kanji i gay, the game itself can read differently than their interpretation. I still choose to see kanjis story in the way you described because.... regardless of the developers saying one thing, the game itself paints a much different picture.
His character is about accepting that being a man and having """feminine""" interests is not a contradiction. That could include arts and crafts, or it could include liking boys.
He's not gay this is just the va having a surface level understanding of the character he voiced just like the portion of the fandom who thinks kanji is gay
@@kobe4212 Atlus literally told him he was gay. So he's gay. End of story.
why should that change anything? It can be about both things ya know
Gay or not kanji is one of the best characters in the series and i love troy bakers voice work as kanji
I can't believe troy baker voiced kanji tatsumi
Gay or not, i'll find a way to meet Kanji in the anime world and make him my boyfriend and we'll get married..we will be together forever...
But....he's just an anime.... Haha..ha.. *cries at the corner*
Atlus let Kanji to be gay and Tatsuya not i kinda bit confused
Ah I remember those 2009 emo hair days... an emo kid in high school had a fight with one of my friends back in those emo hair days... weird times, weird times.
Well.... Human sexuality is super complex while animal sexuality is the most natural thing ever.
Personally I've seen and heard of pets who you could "label".
(Black dog who was super manly but only mounted males... Not effeminate at all, and then a male cat who acted completely like a female and was HUGE to boot).
Animals don't think about this stuff they just are themselves and that's what I think the point of kanji's character is.
Kanji was never gay, that was just a projection that everyone wanted to see on the TV combined with his inner turmoil for like adorable things. He said it himself "It ain't a matter of dudes or chicks".
I LOVE U TROY BAKER KANJI IZ MAI FAV CHARACTER!!!!!
I never thought he was gay. As Troy voiced himself it was more like "I JUST LIKE CUTE STUPID SHIT"