HONEST, RAW RUTHLESS TAKE ON THE EPDL OLD TOWN
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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I think the ePDL drive across their whole line up is on the way, but you're right, it was probably the wrong platform to debut it on, something this revolutionary deserves to be put in something brand new. Great video as usual!
People like me just do not want to spend 6 grand on a kayak period. If they would have made the drive fit all there models I would have cheered them on and thought wow that is awesome. But the way they did it sounds to me like they do not care about there customers at all and just are trying to milk people out of there money.
That is no less than a 4000 dollar drive. That would make the Salty over 5k total.
Agreed 100%
If you listen to these reviews, the only difference between the drives interchangeing is the wiring for the mandated kill switch. He said you could take their pdl and put it in another of their crafts. Obviously, it won't work without a killswitch. Should be easy enough for those of you who already have their drives to figure a way to outfit your boat with a kill switch. Again, they say the drives will interchange. It just won't work until you wire your boat for a kill switch.
Good Luck and tight lines.
I definitely think this drive should have been made for the sportsman 106 or 120. Also allow it to be used on older models, kinda like the 180 drive on hobie can be used on older hobies
If you live on the gulf coast and you fish beyond the breakers, this is the kayak you want the epdl drive in. I am suprised they put it in the big water first. To me it’s the best kayak they make but I know the really wide kayaks are popular for bass fishing guys. The market is more about stability than maneuverability.
If they would have came out with a 106 with the EPDL I would go purchase one right now. My whole thing with kayaks is weight and size as I do not want to struggle with it or have to put it on a trailer or for it to take up to much room in my garage. Like you said give us options as there are different applications for each fisherman and mine is shorter and not so darn heavy which makes it a lot easier for us older people to enjoy. And of course price options not all of us can afford that price tag!
I love my 2016 Native Propel 13... I'm 70 now, still do 4-5 mile round trips. I would pay the bucks if Native made an electric assisted drive that would drop into my kayak! I love that the pedal gives control and could give minimal exercise... and would be a way home if the battery ran out! I could definitely extend my range.
I think we will probably see this drive in other options before to long, and man would I like to try out that drive.
I fish a lot of rivers and lakes with channels that I could explore for miles and miles. Sure would be nice to have some get home power when you need some. This is going to be interesting just like the E-Bike craze! Game Changer.
this is the perfect boat for you, like it was made to do exactly that
Good take. I also think they could've made some necessary changes to the Big Water with the side tracks by getting rid of the plates and just make it a molded in track. Open up the tank well is great. The price point is a hard pill to swallow although I'm sure some people will have no issues coughing it up.
you would be the the perfect angler to speak on this! hope you make a video soon, you do fish big waters!
I’ve had the EPDL for years now. When I turn on my xi3 and peddle at the same time I have a EPDL and with spotlock 😅
Boom 💥
Tournament anglers who want to fish a wider variety of tourneys (pedal & powered) will appreciate this. Autopilot 120/136 is still the GOAT in my opinion.
autopilot ftw!
@@AliexFolgueira just wish they'd update the AP with a couple of features:
-Better hull access. The current hull access is atrocious.
-a bit faster. Maybe a 55lb vs the 45lb, or even 24 or 36V architecture.
Thanks for your honest input! You are right on target.
thanks buddy, this video is only gonna make a few happy haha but hey i gotta speak my mind.
So the E-pdl drive is essentially 2750$ + tax + the battery 699$ for 100Ah + tax. That's 3,499+! I'd rather get another kayak for different watters, or as a spare for a buddy. Ya pretty steep. I do like the Bigwater platform , but that's a pretty expensive drive/ setup when all added up😳
I agree with you. Out of all the kayak models in their line up the Predator/BigWater is my least favorite and I, like you, was disappointed when they decided to roll it out only on the BigWater hull. Old Town seems hung up on the idea that this is their most versatile hull when it is in fact not. I agree with for the bulk of anglers out there the Sportsmans 120 is a better fit with its improved stability and storage. It does push more water than the BigWater which is why it would benefit most from an EPDL drive. If they can pull the cost down into the $4500-5000 range it would be more cost competitive but $6k for a kayak is a significant barrier to retail sales.
Hope they do the other boats quick they probably won't
I’m sorry Oldtown (and Hobie), 5-6k and up? No freaking way! Do they really think that many people are going to spend that in this economy? It’s just getting ridiculous at this point in my opinion. Same with the torqeedo. Love it, but I’ll buy the Newport because of price.
What is the Newport
I think they will be offering the drive by itself for the rest of the models. There are so many of them already out there it just makes sense. I bought my 120PDL this spring and there is no way I’m buying something different. That’s why retrofit makes sense.
Make it backwards compatible with everyone’s pdls or we riot! 😅. Currently it’s a $1500 BigWater with a $4,500 pdl w/ a 3 hour runtime motor.
lol
Agreed, they should have just waited and launched the new drive across all their platforms. With all the retooling they would have to make at the factory level, financially, it's not going to happen. What they should do is let the customer chose which PDL drive they want at the time of purchase. For example: If I'm buying a 120 PDL and I already have a NK180 motor, I don't want to have to spend the extra money on something I already have. :)
Great video and I agree. However I can just get the beautiful bixpy k1 and put it on my 120 pdl with the rudder attachment and will have my very own Sportsman 120 DIY "EPDL". Can't wait!
bixpy salty ftw
I think they will eventually make it available for all platforms but this was they’re way of saying HEY you want it you need to buy this entire package. After it fades out some they will have to make it available for all PDL platforms
should have been launched read for all boats! or at least at a minimum a new boat
@@AliexFolgueira I agree with the new boat for sure. I pre ordered the new Titan X 12.5 because I personally felt like that was a WINNER
I totally agree! The 120 with PDL would be all I need for duck hunting, Bay fishing lingcod’s ,and salmon in the bay and rivers here in Oregon. They got greedy.
Brother let me begin by saying that I love what you have done for the industry.
Now that been said.
What you fail to explain is that This model 132 PDL.
Is the only large kayak That can be paddle back to your starting point in case of an emergency if your drive accidentally fails
That given you 3 different ways to get back to your starting point. Something that other large kayaks cannot offer..
Try to paddle the other competitors in the same dimensions
Hobie 14 PDA
Native 15 Titan
Jackson 13 knorr
YOU will be in big trouble Trying to paddle these Model kayaks back to your starting point.
And that is why I strongly believe that.
Old Town Decided to put this new Technology on their most reliable, Model.
And i'm sure soon to follow on all the other models.
LOL brother quit hating old town.
Keep doing what you're doing we love your UA-cam channel.
i think i covered most of the stuff you said in this video lol, and who is hating on old town?? lol
I disagree on the "turn key" point. I should be able to buy the drive itself and drop it in my existing predator/big water. I shouldn't need to buy whole new kayak just to have the same kayak. That is absurd and unaffordable.
nah, i have seen too many horror stories, trying to retrofit something, does not work, the end result even at a dealer is lacking
@@AliexFolgueira the only retro fit would be a kill switch and that's super easy with a relay.
They think it's so hard to add a kill switch to a older kayak that the EPDL would otherwise drop in.
The cruise control mode on ePDL should have been and must become AUTOPILOT mode before I'll buy spend that $$$
yup BRING ME THE OLD TOWN 136 EPDL AUTOPILOT! NOW lets go
I agree.. very least come out with multiple vessels with e pdl.. great video.
when you break the tabu of 36v motor in your product line there is only one way to go- : replace the 12v unit and 55lbs with 36v unit with 112 lbs motor in the autopilot line - wiring already there 12v requires thicker gauge of wire than 24/35 no problem there - just new motor assembly. and then use you epdl drive across all lines as a fitness alternative. will break the 5mph speed barrier on ap no problem.
The problem is 36v batteries are expensive as all hell, a better solution would be a 12v brushless then you can use one of the new 100ah mini lifep04 batteries that cost like 329 vs close to 1000 for a 36v battery.
@@BassManStrikes yes and no , my 170 ah renogy i use in136ap was 900 $ same level of investment and ap line is not a budget line and never will be nor should you skimp on battery size for 120/.136 106 ap is the 50 ah range model -- so ap136/120 new 2.0 0r drop in replacement motor upgrade for those who have one already ---- epdl evolution for pedal drives same route preexisting wiring as option for upgrades and choice of drive for the consumer-- brushless motors are new to minnkota and oldtown using them for drive as they are part of same company hence the lag there
Selfishly I am glad it didn’t come out on the 106 out of the gate as I purchased mine only a couple of months ago.
No doubt the product line supporting epdl will expand and I will likely pick one up. Until then I will be enjoying my sportsman 106 pdl, it is a great yak.
i know how you feel
I agree if they dropped epdl drive in the sportsman 106 or 120 pdl id buy it immediately no questions asked
I just got the epdl, my opinion about the about stand but I love the tech, if you fish big water, ocean, big lakes, heavy current, long trips, the epdl big water 132 is worth the money, now I think they will sell a lot more If this is on the 106 and 120 pdl as well
They could sell it alone for a retrofit. If you think about how we as kayak anglers rig out or yaks, running some wiring in the hull would be pretty simple. The kill switch on the right side is just mounted to the kayak with screws and a hole for cable and some sort of sealing. Totally doable if someone can run a fish finder in a hobie with the transducer mounted in the dedicated scupper then this would be easier. And for those that aren’t familiar with installing wiring in their kayaks then the dealer can do it. But they probably won’t sell it separately. But they may be the first to do the pedal assist but they won’t remain the only ones. Just like when the first e-bike hit the stage, the other manufacturers jumped in the market too. So for $6000 I would wait and see what the other manufacturers design before jumping on the first one. Plus I’d wait a while until all the problems and bugs get sorted out of a new design being used in real world conditions.
I said the same thing about the motor pod that old town came out with before the auto pilot I feel like if the salty is in the sportsman series the motor pod should be a option to buy and put into the salty separate
Aliex, awesome review bro. 💯 percent "TRUTH" When I saw that boat, I said WTH. It really was the older predator,or big water. Where Native came out with a new hull, beautiful color, battery box, Bow storage. It was just beautiful. I love Oldtown, and I just finally purchased my Autopilot! And I still have my Bixpy PP 768, J2. And my 2019 Suzuki 2.5 outboard, because I thought I was getting Jonny. Even The RVR, that was a missile on the water. But still how I would love my fin drive, inside the Autopilot, running to the J2 PP 768 Bixpy. Now that's power now to stern. Why I love your channel bro. They'll probably send you a new, E-PDL Soon. Lmfao 😂 🎣 🌊
Just finished setting up the NT300 gonna put it on the autopilot this weekend
Agreed, put it in a 120 PDL (and price it accordingly), and I'll buy it day one. I don't understand why the 132 was chosen for this, as it is probably the boat I see the least out there. Granted my fishery is different (mostly lakes and a little inshore), but I cant imagine the die hard offshore market is strong enough for this to be a consistent long term seller. Put this in the PDL 120 and people will be buying them for years to come.
I love Old Town products (I run the solo sportsman for remote water/duck hunting), but IMO they really missed an opportunity to beat the hell out of their competition with this one. I think they've opened a hole for other manufacturers to jump in and do this in a less niche market. If Nucanoe merged their pivot drive with a solution like this, it may be impossible to get me into a different branded boat.
Awesome content, keep it up brother!
thanks bro
Because the 132 ids for big big water like ocean and Great Lakes. It’s a better wave breaking machine and it goes faster too
Aliex, thanks for an HONEST ASSESSMENT.
i love my big water but it could use a rudder under the hull and two handles for control on both sides…the rest is perfect…do that and put the epdl on all the top of the line models
But dude i don’t want to give up spot lock and shortly to create a track to follow a certain depth to troll. I’ll keep my ap120. And they didn’t integrate the fish finder either and they own hummingbird.
It needed to be available across their line AND retrofit to all Sportsman kayaks. That would have been the best launch of this new product. Their marketing department is dropping the ball and eventually they are going to price themselves right out of the market. A new company is going to come out and do it better for cheaper and brand loyalty can only go so far. Right now the better cheaper option is to just get the PDL and add any number of third party motors. Dont even need the ePDL.
exactly. Personally, I don't see anything revolutionary about this. ESPECIALLY considering the price they're trying to get. Better off doing exactly what you said. Get a PDL of any brand for that matter, and spend the money you save on a Bixpy, Newport or whatever-the-hell-the-other-one-is-called-that-cant-remember-the-name-of-right-now
I want a ePDL Salty! That light little boat will fly!
yup! i hope they make it happened
🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Awesome stuff dude
I know it’s the time of year for all the new things
But it seems like somebody needs to catch clean and cook 🤣✌🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
You got that right!
You'd be talking shit no matter what they did. 😂😂
Good show I agree completely I want a big wide kayak
heck yeah! thats what needs pedal assist! so you get the stability you want and lose none of the speed! like no brainer
@@AliexFolgueira I'd like to see that e drive on the new titan
Not only did they put it in an old boat, but the old boats can not use the new drive. What the fuck is that lol
A 106 or 120 EPDL will have me 😮 until then I’m not in the market.
if they ever do those, it will be probably double the price of the boats, would you still buy it?
@@AliexFolgueira yes, for many of the points you mention, especially one motor drive and done. It’s a boat I would save up for while still using a current PDL. I wouldn’t just jump ship that fast. I think it’s coming so maybe I need to start saving now!
Can you use a pedal drive on a Old town sportsman 106 powered by mk
no
The price difference between the regular PDL 132 and the EPDL is around $2750. I'm guessing that will be the price of the drive and battery. That's within $100. of the Torqeedo 1103 AC motor system. I think I would like the Sportsman PDL 120 with the 1100AC better. That kayak would cost around $5650. with that set up and you still have the PDL drive plus a more powerful motor.
it is comparable, if they give you the option to max this out, you know how trolling motors are capped, bixpy torqeed0, etc are cap, if they let you update this thing, it is a very comparable motor, i love my bixpy but sometimes i wish i could just take one thing! you now less time rigging and getting on the water
2.5 hrs at full throttle. It's not innovative. It's ten plus year old Ebike tech.
bad analogy to start, Ford came out with the Lightning on the same platform as the F-150
Bad comment!! It was not a 2016 f150 model! But an updated model
@@AliexFolgueira the lightning was built on the current F-150 chassis so it wasn't a new chassis so the Lightning wasnt groundbreaking either it was build on an older, established F-150, not a brand ndw one but either way, I think some people like the bigwater but I have only owned the 120pdl and mk106 so i don't know enough about the bigwater to say it was a mistake. good video though
And I had a 2018 Ford F-150 and one of the first 2022s Lightning, looked very similar
Aliex!!!!!
honesty ..... heck yeah
haha i speak say what i think but you know HONEST on titles work haha
Im not sure if adding a motor to an existing pedal-drive line up is worth almost 3grand.
That’s facts !
They should have offered the epdl drives to the other models as an option. A buyer should be able to pick either the current drive or the new epdl drive at a premium. If they added the epdl drive at say an $800 premium over all the sportsman models they would have made up the money(profit)with the increased sales on all models.
FeelFree Kayaks was the first to come out with this epdl technology and may hold the patent. Which is why they may have only allowed Oldtown to use just on one of their kayaks.
no bro, the feelfree is one or the other, you can work the motor and the drive at the same time
Please ask the one question nobody asked at Icast: Why only a 2 year warranty on the ePDL when the PDL has a 5 year warranty?
You can't really guarantee a motor for more than 2 years, it is the same as the Trolling motor on the autopilot, that's minn kota
@@AliexFolgueira I disagree, If your charging a premium price, you should get a premium 5 year warranty. Or at the very least, offer a extended warranty at a fair price. Their bragging about all the testing they did and how great it is. Ok, back it up.
@@CrazyCranker it is the same pricing as the autopilot with the battery
Boom
I think they came out with this ePDL in the 132 first because they want to squeeze as many sales out of the drive as possible. They knew they would sell hardly any 132s if a 120 ePDL was available
maybe, but i think it is more about being stubborn, like how many times are they going to try to make this boat the boat? remember when the put a trolling motor on it? back in 2015? that didn't sell well i guess, then they did the sportsman line and left the boat almost the same, and now this? i dont get it
They just want to compete with Hobie revenue wise, to offer something in the eyes of customers comparable to PA14 but better because of the epdl drive. Just like you said, you don't necessarily need a motor in small lakes and OT BigWater isn't the best kayak for bass fishing either, but for offshore fishing BigWater is the better kayak as its faster and cuts through rough water easier, so adding a motor especially for trolling while keeping the weight of the kayak relatively lighter is a more logical thought than a dedicated motor and 100ah battery.But IMO,OT should offer all of their bigger kayaks with a choice of regular PDL or EPDL.
no compete but more like use hobie prices to legitimize high prices lol, yeah big miss by not offering the full line with epdl
I have a predator so 6k for a kayak that's essentially the same is too much to swallow considering I could only recoup maybe $15-1800 bucks by selling mine. So to get me into an epdl I'm looking at $4200 on a good day. A retro fit kit probably would have got me into an Epdl but that's not on the table. I'll stick with my AP136.
It may be a 2016 design, but it has been updated and it's still a new boat. The F-150 has been for sale for decades and it get s updated. If you don't think so the sticker price has ballooned a lot. Ford can't sell the things anymore. People cannot afford them. The motor is a good idea. I don't know about the execution of said idea. The gear whine I heard was not conducive to long life, I don't care about a warranty. I never want to have to use the warranty. I want solid engineering and longevity. The rollout was acceptable. Unless a new boat design was coming concurrent with the motor I wouldn't make a boat just to show off the new drive. It can cost upwards of 30,000 to make a new mold and start producing a new boat. Not cost effective.
Yes if they just put out the epdl by itself to fit all models they would make alot more money. I’d buy one but I won’t go buy another whole kayak I don’t even want.mabe someone at Johnson can explain the logic.
👍
that's what they should have done. put it as an accessory to all they other kayaks. like let me put the new drive in my new kayak that I just bought last year. 6k for that is a no go for me. ever.
I go for the new bixpy k-1 on my pdl 120 less money almost the same performance.
yes and no, but yeah
@@AliexFolgueira Creó que puedes sacar el mismo rendimiento del bixpy no la misma velocidad porque entiendo que el bixpy no llega a las 5 millas por hora pero en un casó de ir de punto A y B Creó que por el valor Bixpy lo supera y puedes dejar los pedales del 120 PDL y poner el navarre drive insert y con todo y éso no llega a la cantidad de 6K.
Oldtown 120 pdl $2,500.00
Bixpy K-1 $1,900.00
Navarre Drive insert $85.00
Todavía tendría $1,515.00
Y no le estoy tirando al sistema nuevo sólo Creó que no fue la mejor opción.
Old Town is like 20 minutes from where I live. I still won't buy a kayak from them. Don't see any reason buying an overpriced piece of plastic
missing out, great boats! very nice place, employees a lot of local people, i was there, you should support your local companies, they got kayaks from a few hundreds to thousands
@@AliexFolgueira if I do buy another kayak besides my lifetime, I think I'm going to go with a big fish 108
Agree, agree, agree.
Good analysis, not sure i agree with the use of the torqueedo example. Its a much more powerful setup than the epdl. Bixpy k1 would be more similar, which would cut the cost by a significant amount, give you similar features, redundancy and the ability to mount it somewhere else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that motor assist is not new technology, it hasn’t been developed by oldtown its been around on ebikes for a while. All they had to do is to take the existing technology and adapt to the pdl drive. Which does require some r n d but they are over exaggerating how much r n d it actually took. Add to that, that they are using an old hull, and $6000 price tag, and you give off the impression that you are trying to milk your customers.
this motor is powerful bro, it is faster than torqeedo, BUT! they uptimazed it so it can have longer battery life, thats why i used teh example, this is trully some amazing stuff. Ebikes being around fine, pellican had the first pedal boat ever, nobody knows that
@@AliexFolgueira keep in mind that a 36V 20ah battery is equivalent in terms of wattage to a 12V 60amph.
Like you said if they had that epdl drive on a 106 or 120 i would probably get it.
I just don’t understand the marketing decision to just release it on the 132, which they dont sell that many of to begin with
BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
BW is a great design for big water. They are not done with this technology. The intent was to introduce the ePDL technology. There will be more in the future. For sure. And for those who want it to fit in previous PDL versions, it won't happen. Too much liability for the kill switch installation.
agreed, could have kept the bottom hull design and make the top more up to date, seeing how easy it is to add this drive to other boats, i bet the whole line will have a makeover soon, just saying thats how it should have been launched, the whole line, plus a new boat, it is been 3 plus year since they launched a new boat
My opinion. Not wroth it. Epdl like you said is an old boat just with an updated drive. It's nice but I'd rather get another pedal drive with a bixpy.
bixpy on the salty works really well
Well, it's obvious Old Town should hire you to run their marketing department. Right?
they should haha
Boats don't change their technology as fast as cars and trucks. It's not a fair comparison. I know this ePDL has taken a long time (launch was delayed twice) and lots of money to develop. Waiting longer for them to come up with a new kayak to put it in wasn't worth the wait. More kayaks will come. I'm sure of it. (I'm a dealer for OT)
as a dealer don't you wanna sell more boats? the autopilot was done quick! this thing could have been done 2 years ago! watch how fast you will be selling other epdl models, just watch
@AliexFolgueira The Autopilot was done quick, but it also had a ton of issues, which Old Town hates. As an Old Town Dealer myself, I would have loved to see it across all the models, but the Bigwater was chosen because it offers the performance they were looking for and because it's one of the top selling PDL models. You take a 120 or 106 and put that unit in it and you won't even get close to the same performance. I do believe they will eventually come to all models, but to start the bigwater offered the performance and popularity the wanted.
Wouldn’t buy it for same reasons . And no spot lock as well .
should of just built a new BW136 autopilot with 65lb thrust
what do you think of the price thats so high
crazy high! but what can i say, a steak costs $40 nowdays lol
@@AliexFolgueirabut at $6k, the better option imo would be a Tuffy/Polycraft/used skiff etc. I love kayaks as much as the next person, but having a boat is way better, if you have the storage for it anyway.
dirty greedy bassters ...they wanted to sell those overpriced floating benchies at top dollar lol ..6k it better not need to pedal and it better neuralink ready... $6k it needs to be fully automated, go catch the fish and bring em back to the camp site
well some brands sell their kayaks close tp $6000 and it doesnt included a motor let alone a battery
Who cares, it's a business that needs to appeal to all potential customers. I myself will stay with pdl but you can't blame them for expanding.
F150 lightning isn’t necessary a new model
Such a success lol
Yeah kinda how I felt about it, still cool but…..
Super cool, 👍
If it’s not broke don’t fix it.
Kaizen Japanese philosophy of continuous improvement.
R&D and MFG costs would be higher with a new boat
This drive was in development for years. Old town takes pride in quality and tradition. They don’t need to make a new model, just to make a new model. It would cost more, and maybe not be any better than what they released. You don’t need to be click baity or raging all the time.
Honestly I watch your videos because of the diversity of kayaks covered and speed testing. But your opinions sometimes are kind of sus. Not trying to hate just give constructive feedback.
brooooooooooooooooo IT IS BROKEN! this hull is not even close to being in part with the competition! the RD was done on the drive! porting it to other models takes a second! PLUSSSS you want to sell boats! MAKE A NEW ONE! old town changed the mold on this boat, THEY SPENT MONEY ON IT! to make the cup holder bigger and the tankwell! watch the walkthru video i did. your comment truly kinda sus, not hating just being real!
Well, they obviously didn't ask you! But yea why?
oohh i told them a few times, whyyyy bigwater?? whyyy do a new boat! but it is what it is
I was waiting for a review. Not nine minutes of bitching about marketing.
I was hoping for a nice comment, not someone bitching about the content of the video that's is my opinion, nothing on the title says REVIEW!
I don’t think I have ever been able to watch one of his complete videos, something about him, he’s a bit obnoxious
I got this believe that half the people who get to see you, super dislike you maybe you remind then of a bad uncle, the other 30% are indifferent and only 20% only like you.
Maybe I remind you of a bad uncle lol
"Obnoxious means something is very unpleasant, rude, or offensive, and can make people feel annoyed, disgusted, or offended"
I don't think I fit any of those boxes BTW
I think the whole concept is trash. Just go full motor. Then i also think ebikes are stupid. Just get a real scooter.
has great potential
At least there not like Native and just keep making new hulls naming them slayer 2.0 max fullest, titan slayer killer. Old Town got a future for them. Native not so much. Native is below feelfree now.
AMEN!!