Why An Ultra Sharp Knife Will Dull Super Fast - And How To Fix It
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- Does a Sharp Knife Dull Faster? Don't Be Fooled, by the wire burr. In this knife sharpening tutorial I discuss the most important part of sharpening, burr removal. Failing to remove the wire burr can result in a knife that appears to be sharp, but actually isn't!
Sharpening stones used in video⬇️
CHEAP Diamond Stone (review coming soon)⬇️
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Shapton 1000 grit (BEST VALUE SHARPENING STON ON THE MARKET)
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6 micron diamond strop compound⬇️
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You are tackling common issues we all deal with with sharpening in a very easy to understand, concise and informative manner!
I love that you show the magnified before and after... This was super informative... and concise! Awesome job man!
I started getting into knife sharpening about four years ago, the same time I found your channel. I couldn’t sharpen worth a crap back then, but now, I can sharpen almost at pro level. All thanks to you!!!
This channel has the best sharpening advice on UA-cam. My freehand technique still needs work, but I’m getting better. Thank you!
Excellent video! Magnifying the edge with microscope explains so much! Thanks!
This is why I like the Outdoors55 channel. It gets into the detail that matters. It’s all about the details that matter to get a harmonious outcome.👍🏻
One thing I've found is that, after stropping on leather, it's also good to wipe the edge off a few times with a damp paper towel at about medium pressure. I've found that it helps remove any sections of minor burring that one may have missed and almost always leads to a sharper knife than even a strop can accomplish. Could just be me, though.
I've watched countless videos about the burr. Lots that even show magnification. BUT no one I've seen has shared how to effectively remove it. Until now. THANK YOU!
This is the best video on a burr I've ever seen lol. It took me forever to figure this out when I first started and seeing it visualized is great.
Alex, finally some teaching that makes sense. I can’t tell you how many sharpening myths you’ve dispelled for me! Also forced me to get rid of my sharpening junk and obtain some real gear. Could you please do an episode on the proper role of an abrasive steel in maintenance of kitchen knives?
All your videos are so honest and I learn a lot from them. Thank you
I just picked up the shapton stones and have been working on my skills lol. thanks for the tip! love your videos man!
The visualization was monumental. Funny how obvious it was before but now my mind comprehends it so clearly. Thank you
I always enjoy your sharpening videos.
Nice explanation, as always!
Greetings from Germany💚🤘
Video tecnico e molto interessante, ho imparato (sto continuando) ad affilare seguendo i tuoi video. Dall'Italia grazie di cuore Alex 😊
can't wait for a review of that diamond stone.
For me, my progression of sharpening is 400 and 600 grit on diamond plate and then finish on ~2000 grit natural stone. Then I sharpen at a slightly higher angle with very low pressure on a 6000 grit alumina ceramic stone until I feel no more burr and finish on a fine diamond compound strop. It works so good and I glad that I found what progression works for me. The edge is hair splitting everytime.
Also, if the edge keeps dulling when using it. That might be due to the angle of the edge being too low. Increase the angle a bit until the edge last for a good while during usage. This however require a lot of testing, but once you found the best angle for the grind and steel it would last. I saw an interview with the inventor of the magnacut steel and I think he said "the angle and geometry of a knife is more important than the steel", or something like that. And it is so true.
Great video showcasing the importance of burr removal though. Definitely very useful for a beginner sharpener.
Sono completamente d'accordo 👍
That was a fantastic interview. He really knows his stuff. It got me looking at knife edges differently.
Good approach.
Some knife blade geometry and steel respond differently to the abrasive and the pressure, and the direction. One must work with the knife to what "works".
What about 2 different angles on the cutting edge. Say for a kitchen knife, do a 15 degree sharpening and do 20deg for the cutting edge on top. This makes the actual cutting edge not as thin and thus less prone to burrs and getting dull faster?
Any info on us8ng two different angles on the edge and what effect it has?
@@YaH_Gives_Wisdom I do sharpen at higher angle on the 6k grit finishing stone at the end to remove the burr. It doesn't effect the cutting as it can still catch and cut at the lower sharpening angle.
I did this to all my mora knives that still has the scandi grind. It makes the edge tougher and less prone to dulling since if you accidentally pry while cutting with mora thin scandi grind, the edge itself can bend a bit. So higher angle on the finishing stone helps for me.
I also did this for my victorinox pocket knife and I did notice that it cuts the same and last quite a bit longer. The edge is also easy to maintain. If I feel like it's getting dull, I did a few strokes on a higher angle on my fine 6k ceramic stone and a few strokes on the strop and that brings back the sharpness.
One thing that I notice is that if you want a biting edge, use a lower grit compound on your strop than your finest sharpening stone. Like, you finish the edge at 6k but strop with 2-3k compound. It gives the edge bite that will catch on smooth material such as plastic, tape and tomato skin that a finer edge are having a tough time catching and starting a cut. It also means that when the blade is dull, you can strop on these low grit compound strop to bring back the sharpness and bite of the edge without needing to go back to a stone.
Great video thank you.
thank you for sharing.
love your vids
This makes so much sense. I thought it was just soft steel and the edge rolling over. I need to get some decent stones.
Thank you for your videos.With this "trick" are my woodworking tools sharper than they were new. Greetings from Switzerland.
Great vid, thanks for all your informative videos.
I appreciate you taking the time to make these education videos for knife sharpening. They help improve the knife community. Thank you again.
This is life changing information for me. thank you!
Do you have a video about microbevels?
I appreciate your style of explanation! Thank you!
Great video...glad you are back making videos!
Another useful and worthwhile video. Thanks
I still struggle with burr removal. I've got bum shoulders, so trying to hold an angle with that light of pressure is extremely difficult. Ive tried pulling the blade through cork and wood, used flesh side leather strop in between final passes, 5 and down method. I can't constantly remove burrs. When I do, it's freaking magic.
Try going to a fixed angle sharpener such as a kmg that has a large assortment of grits and strops etc available for it
Have you tried to 'lift' the burr with a steel-rod or a card-scraper?
There comes a point where you use so little pressure that is near impossible to get the right angle. I think you should give it another shot, even if that pressure is going to be slightly more for you than others.
You can also get angle guides for a stone to make sure you start at exactly the right angle. That was helpful for me when I started doing proper bur reduction.
My technique is to use diamond sharpner. Sharpen on your standard angle around 15deg. Then once the burr forms and you are relatively sharp lift the angle to around 20 deg and go much lighter. It should only take a couple of passes. This make a micro bevil and removes the burr. It's important to use diamond as it is much more aggressive and forms the micro bevel with only a few passes. When doing tune ups just do the lite pass at 20 deg. You shouldn't have to go back to the 15 deg very often. If the edge gets damaged go back to 20 deg to make the micro bevel a bit larger to remove the damage this make the edge more durable.
@@JohnFrumFromAmericaHeard the same angle change method from a renowned knife sharpener. If the blade is ground at 16° per side, then lightly hone it 2° higher ie. 18° to completely remove the burr while creating a slight micro apex/edge. He demonstrated this using the honeing wheel on a Tormek T-8 but that this would also apply to a stropping leather board. That knife was insanely sharp.
I actually needed this video! I already discovered that I was left with a nearly invisible burr, but I concluded it was there exactly because the knife went dull after just a few cuts. And regardless of how long I stropped, it stayed there. I'm going to try this out tomorrow (2am now, time for shuteye)
Burr minimization helps, too. Most people get a stubborn burr due to highly abrasive diamond plates which leave a mess behind, using too much pressure, or simply going at it too hard - building a very large burr due to overdoing it on the plates.
I suggest using higher end abrasives, or at least milder abrasives (ie. Water-stones, ceramics, etc.), and checking for burr after a few passes.
At least while you’re learning as a beginner.
Nice, new upload!
Omg thank you so much ive been trying to feel for a burr but you just explained to just lightly put pressure thank you so much 😆
I bought that cheap S SATC diamond stone before your review drives the price up 😀. Reviews look good and the price is the same as a stone holder. Speaking of which, could you recommend a sharpening stone holder? Looks like you were using the Shapton case in the vid.
Ive just started to ever so lightly drag the apex across a piece of bass wood that i have and it works great removing that burr. I dont strop anymore.
My brand new "sharp" magnacut kitchen petty sliced the first tomato with ease. But would not slice through the skin of the second tomato. Likely your "leftover burr rolled over farther" is the explanation. Enlightening...thanks!
EXCELLENT INFORMATION!!
Great information. Thanks again! 👍
Very well explained. Thank you
Great tip, I will try it!
Another Great & Helpful Video! Thanks.....
Could you maybe show us how the edge looks like from above after sharpening? How thin it actually is when it splits hair etc? I am curious to what point certain steels can be brought and how they actually look like under the microscope when looked at from above.
Huzzah! We appreciate the god tier knowledge you give out on your channel. Thank you 😘
Back when a quarter cost a nickel which was the style at the time I'd just drag the edge on the corner of a 2x4 and get on with life. It worked surprisingly well and I still use it for cheap knives that just need a working edge. Now I have a ceramic stone and a strop to deal with burrs.
I always appreciate and learn from your videos. Ive seen you sharpen cheap knives, would like to see you use cheap stones. Ive got the three in one stone that you flip over. Its what i could afford. Also would like to see your technique with a steel honing rod. If possible, if not i promise ill keep watching. Thanks
That's my problem that I think. I'm solveing..I notice a slight saw tooth edge...I get the knife shaving sharp...then it's dull by morning..so now I worked it more over and the bur seems to be gone and it's now shaving after stroping
My question is about maintaining the edge. Let's say I have a sharp knife and I use it once or twice. Should I strop it after every few uses to keep it sharp or do I need to get a burr every time I sharpen it? I know I need a burr on a dull knife or broadhead, but not sure about knife that is still decently sharp.
Yes mister Alex! SCIENCE!!!
Love your videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us ❤
Thank you !
I can not tell you how I felt when my super sharp knife that cut vegetables with just it's own weight touched the chopping board and suddenly became dull. My self esteem went from I am the greatest to I am a hack in just one cut!!!
Now I know why.
Useful tip - thank you!
Could you have removed that same burr, just with the strop with the diamond paste? Or would it take so long as to not be a good option?
not sure if you ever tried it but i got a schaaf tools diamond plate with 400/1000 grit and it has held up for years, got it on amazon, not exspensive. sometimes i wonder if they are all the same.
Newbie here. If light passes on finishing grit remove the burr, is stropping needed?
What are your thoughts on doing edge trailing passes instead of edge leading to remove the burr? I’m also curious about increasing the angle by 1 or 2° for the edge trailing passes. Thank you!
Thanks for this information. 👍
Wonderful clip. There is however a great way to check for the burr visually. Hands are incredibly sensitive, especially fingertips. It is normal for an experienced person to check for the burr with a fingertip.
But if you sharpen your knife in a proper way - you have a nice source of light, just watch the edge of the knife. Rotate it slowly and watch it. If the light reflects from the edge (you will see a bright thin line), you have a burr or not properly sharpen edge.
If you can see just a switch between one side and other side of the blade reflection - burr is gone. Knife is perfectly sharp (at least to our human standards).
Eyes are a bit more sensitive then fingertips :)
Great video! Was it water that you put on your leather strop?
if you're careful about developing a burr after your first stone you'll have an easier time removing it. once you have a feel for how fast you remove material on a particular knife you can often go through the grits without forming a noticeable burr. it may be there, but it's so small you won't see or feel it. i think it was cliff stamp who advocated for something like this.
I know where to purchase the plates/stones, but where is the holder from?
I don't use a sharpening stone, I have the worksharp ken onion deal and I love it, but one thing I always do is alternating passes on the last belt (which is basically like a stropping belt), and I get a really long lasting sharp edge on my kitchen knives. They are used every single day (not professionally just at home), and they will cut paper for a while after sharpening and go through steak so cleanly. I think it's the same basic practice as what you're describing, with the alternating passes at the end of the stone, I just do it on the last belt and sometimes on the second to last belt if it was a thorough sharpening.
I actually use a small branch from a Crepe Myrtle tree to "break off" the burr prior to the final sharpening steps. Works for me
Huh... I didn't know it was that simple. Now I currently have a tool sharpening tri-stone from Lowes. It has a coarse side, med side, and a fine side. I don't think it states what grit each side is, though. How would I remove the burr on one of these sides?? Also, I have a very old tri-stone that is actual stone for the medium and fine sides, but the updated product now uses a synthetic coarse and med side.
What about 2 different angles on the cutting edge. Say for a kitchen knife, do a 15 degree sharpening and do 20deg for the cutting edge on very tip. This makes the actual cutting edge not as thin and thus less prone to burrs and getting dull faster?
Any info on us8ng two different angles on the edge and what effect it has?
For the algorithm!
The edge looks really good Afterwards. Can you adress what the difference between the effect of a fine grit stone and a stropping leather is? Why is the stone just polishing the edge but the strap + Compound actually removing the burr?
My guess is that the strop, being flexible, doesn't bend the burr nearly as much as the stone does, and therefore can actually abrade it away.
Hello. I'm relatively new to the art of knife sharpening. Let's say I just sharpened my kitchen knife with a whetstone. How am I supposed to know if there are burrs? After all, as you said yourself here, these burrs are invisible to the naked eye. And even with these burrs, your knife is still sharp. So how can I tell if my knife has burrs?
Would you please share which microscope you used in this video? Also the light source and magnification? THANK YOU!
subscribing to this thread
Yay, Push
you should have started the video with the last thing you said at the end. it would have made the video more impactful, at least for me. good info as always
I got an ad before this for that craparooni pseudo Japanese knife, (starts with Hu... ends with ..usk) and I laughed out loud.
Keep wondering to what grit can u actuslly feel the burr? I know how a 600 or 800 feels like but higher? Can u tell by feel that there is a burr anymore? Thx best regards....love the Videos...
Isn't using a honing rod effective at removing a burr?
Instead of light passes on the fine stone, would back and forth passes on flat glass or steel achieve the same result to knock the bur off?
Hey, Q) The knives we buy come with a 250-grit factory edge, do you think this is done to mitigate the "Burr" issue?
I am having some trouble with burr reduction on a Magnacut knife. The blade will not take a sticky sharp edge and hold it.
15v, K390, 154CM, Maxamet, 14c28n, LC200N, S35v, SPY27, no problem generally. S110V, tricky, ZDP189 tricky.
Thank you for putting me on the right track. Great Video! 😎👍
Update: I think my next step is to use lower finishing grit (650) then use a 1200 grit stone to remove the burr and finish on a strop
My TSPROF K03 has stones up to 4,000 grit (EdgePro Matrix). I will update you if this works.
Great work
Do you have a strop you recommend, I see you recommended different stones on Amazon but no strops, would love to get a good quality one. Thanks
Where did you get the stone holder?
Would a few forward strokes with a ceramic stick knock off the burr?
Thank you for this video
Thank you.
I often touch up my edges with a spyderco sharp maker alternating between the rods and ending with light pressure. Would this produce a burr?
I have a kukri that is hair whittling sharp, but doesn't cut paper towels like that. Do you have any idea what could be the problem? I finish on a 1000 diamond plate, then a leather strop with brown compound.
When I want to remove the burr, I put a sweatshirt on. 😜
also you wanna try and add a wider angle at the edge so the thinnest part has more strength
Does the direction of alternating passes on the final stone matter? I.e. do you need to travel "edge-leading direction" as you did or can you go in the "spine leading direction"?
Nvm you have multiple videos discussing this...
I won't link theme here... OUTDOORS55 covers the topic over multiple videos...
I'm under the impression that, in short, stones should always be used edge leading. On stones, edge trailing creates a larger/longer burr (often fragile from bending back and forth) vs edge leading which creates much less if any burr but a more blunt/ragged apex appearance (under microscopy).
How do you take the burr of a single bevel edge like scissors or grass shears?
Still though a super thin refined edge will dull quicker than a chonky factory edge but you normally can get it back to hair whittling with a pocket ceramic stone. Just one or two swipes does the trick.
I try to keep all my knives as thin as the steel will sustain.
Some experts like William Colins believe rough edges like up to 1000-1500 grit and then strop on leather with no compound work better. Do you agree?
Good vid and tip!
What make is the knife, please?
Thanks for sharing
Steve
Its a test blade I made several years ago. Its been regrown more times than I can count, and had multiple different scales. Right now it has diy burlap scales. Its a2 tool steel at 62 hrc👍
@@OUTDOORS55 Thanks, it is a nice looking, working, shape, profile.
Thanks for sharing,
Steve
Thanks a lot ☀️🌿🙌🏻✨👌🏻
Nice
How much good does a steel actually do on a high carbon vegetable knife, Victorinox for example? 🤔
Be warned, if you have a shoddy technique while sharpening, trying to remove the bur will be a nightmare.
Just cuz I was bending my wrist halfway through the stroke.
Took me 3 hours on a knife to realise this, I know, I'm a slow learner.
I managed to remove the bur at the heel, only for it to show up at the tip and vice versa.
This is why in every sharpening video you see it's pointed to "keep a constant angle" It ain't to bust your balls, it's to make YOUR life easier
Also, when sharpening, for the love of god, do not put too much pressure on the blade, you are just messing your angle and your stone, let the stone do the work, if you see no progress, go back a few grits instead
Trying to put a bevel and an edge on a cheap knife has been one of the most tedious things i have done in my life.
If you really think you have to, brute force the initial bevel by using a flat chainsaw file, be warned, those thing eat through metal.
Laughing! I find it to be quite difficult to sharpen cheap steel! It’s very unforgiving. I guess that’s why it’s best to practice on it?
I've experienced this so many times it could drive a man insane. Having a microscope has been eye-opening. Pun not intended, but fully accepted. Thanks for the video Alex.
Hey bro - do you have certain steels that are harder to pop that wire edge off of sometimes? Also, do you find that sometimes even hair-whittling edges experience this phenomenon of spontaneous loss of sharpness due to micro-burr?
I feel like the phenomenon is less pronounced when the edge can whittle hair (I think because the burr is thinner, and therefore the base when the foil bends over or breaks off is still thinner than what's left upon the destruction of a full wire edge) but it seems like something like this happens even to some of my edges that are capable of against-grain hair whittling or tree-topping.
I just took a moment to think about how fully I am splitting hairs about sharpening, and it was fairly embarrassing, but here we are, thanks. Pun intended that time 😆
This is a nice video, but why did you only do a 1000 stone? also the stropping should have removed the burr, or are you making the point that the knife might be sharp but hasn't been stropped?
Watch the whole video
Diamondpaste on leather is not a real strob its more Like a fine Stone...and the Point of the Video ist to Show (one of many parts) why the myth exist that Sharp Blades dull faster.
Thats why he uses a sharpen process where you have to watch what you do instead of a multi Stone and real strob System, call it field or easy system ;)... To reproduce the Error that leads to the Topic
Sorry my english isnt the best.
Greatz from Germany
and have a nice Day
opo
I have a question for fixed angle sharpening systems, especially with diamond stones. I make knives, so usually I start at 120 grit when doing the secondary bevel, my edge thickness being around .2-.35mm (if I haven't put up one on the belt grinder, if so, then I start at 240 diamond). Do you reckon the angle on the sharpening system should be increased by the slightest bit when going up grits, to compensate for grain thickness on the stone?
Also, one off topic, have been thinking about getting a cheapo Aliexpress microscope to check my cutting edges and get a better understanding, is there something you would recommend?
I keep angle the same throughout. I dont like micro bevels. And id just get a jeweler loupe. Buy a decent one and you'll be able to see the edges very well.
Haven't thought about a jeweler loupe, will definitely help with my sharpening skills, and stropping skills mostly! Thanks man!
what is that strap?
Boo-Yah!!! Awesome outro statement.