[PoE 3.24] Necropolis League - A Post-Mortem
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Welp.
#PathofExile #PoE #Necropolis
00:00 I've Played This League the Least
01:45 Issues on Release
10:02 Mid-League Patches
15:51 Problems With T17 Maps
22:51 Learning from Sentinel League
25:25 Intrusive League Mechanic
27:08 Conclusion
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Hope we get an absolute banger next league. Anything I forgot about Necropolis?
I like SSF, and it was (....is?) a great league. looked hella scuffed for HC (rippy no skip, T17s), or trade (.............................................................. yeah, I get it)
One thing I didn’t hear you mention, that for me was the absolute worst part of T17s, was the map layouts. I like to play Jungle Valley, Strand, Atoll, nice open nature maps. All the T17s are camped dark mazes with narrow corridors. All the other problems aside, that alone is a deal-breaker for me.
no mention of undocumented changes. like what happend with allflame droprates?
Heyho :) playing your hexblaster for some leagues now
just wanted to mention what a crazy contrast this league is compared to Affliction. We went from easy to understand/easy to acquire player power and opt-in difficulty to literally the opposite, Wildwood Ascendancies taken away + forced difficulty. With the only counterweight being that you might be able to craft better items.
This league couldn’t even hold Mathil. That’s not a good sign.
Over 2 weeks.. no poe vid. Pretty nuts. Even with D4bad that’s still impressive
ye and mathil normally plays all the way to like last week of the league so you know it's hot steamer of a league if you getting his ass to nope out
My biggest problem with this league was how the corpses were dropped. I absolutely hate it when you fight mobs that are densely packed on the screen and all of a sudden 5 corpse loop panels pop up. They cover absolutely everything on the screen be it remain mobs or other drops. I don't know who designed this interface and thought it's fine.
i basically ignored the graveyard entirely and having this gigantic corpse drops all over constantly pretty much made me stop playing.
the lantern was a fun idea but they nerfed the good mods and it became just annoying to see the same crap every map along with how RIP-y it made everything
Just a failed league sadly
I found it absolutely stupid that those popups buried items under them with no chance to grad unless you took the corpse.
I ran unrolled maps doing jun/beasts/corpses for 30div/h and almost never looted anything but corpses on uberstrict pluss to compensate. Then crafted a bunch of 100 div bows not included in the div/hour. Some people can't adapt. Like bitching about not finding a perfect slice of NY pizza in Iceland.
Press Z
@@FunnyDougy u missing the point here kido
that line about feeling apathetic felt too real, when kalandra league happened i was so upset that GGG were trying to force this annoying change that no one liked, now all this necropolis shit is going on and i just can't care
I just can't bring myself to care. It's death for me.
You hit all the big points.
In the interview with Jonathan I felt like Jonathan argued that MF was needed for endgame characters to aspire to, which is just not how it plays out in reality. People abuse MF to acquire currency and then use that currency to make the actual multi-mirror endgame character that has no MF. It does not operate within the normal parameters of the game. No one adds just 20% MF and call it a day. You either abuse or ignore it entirely.
Another smaller thing in the endgame that changed with 3.24 was going from 30% increased effect of map mods (60% with Wandering Path) to 90% increased effect of map mods (170% with Back to Basics), which makes normal semi-annoying map mods (like 60% reduced revovery or aura effect) into actual build-bricking mods, which the requires you to reroll even more maps and introduces even more tedium. But that is technically voluntary, even thought you could argue that most farming strategies using it, makes it less voluntary.
They cling to it because of Diablo2 where MF grinding 1000 Pindleskin runs will probably grant you something worth while. I think the reason it does not feel so bad in D2 is because you can typically just cut right to the boss you want to MF, kill it, reset and go again. You 100% CANNOT do that in PoE so as is typical, they took a good concept, bastardized it and refuse to surrender the point even when it is negatively impacting the entire game as it is. Either make it better or take it out and for the love of GOD stop the BS crafting leagues; no one like that shit.
@@BlackbeardKNAC imo the problem in PoE1 is that it ISN'T anywhere close to MF in D2. It still takes A LOT of effort relative to the reward to MF optimally, to the point where your average ladder player isn't necessarily incentivized to do it. Also, scaling MF comes with severe diminishing returns (due to log scaling in D2) to the point where an extra 20% nets you marginal gains (at the cost of player power) unless you farm 1000+ Pindles per day. However, in PoE1 there are so many MORE multipliers interacting that, even with some diminishing returns, that extra 20% still becomes very noticeable, to the point where running 10 maps optimized is like running 200 maps non-optimized. That's is what, I think, makes MF bad in PoE1. The reward is too immediate and too apparent that it REDUCES the grind. D2 needs to stop catching strays because MF is bad in PoE1 haha. I think the thing I really like about your comment is that MFing in D2 is usually tied to bossing, and in PoE1 MF-bossing is typically not worth it when you can just juice maps instead. Easier content + more reward = easy decision
IMO MF will always be a complete joke/ nightmare to balance. Nobody is going to socket one rarity gem and call it a day. Group play + culling + aura +mf makes it impossible to find a sweet spot between "fair" mf, and just abusing it as hard as you possibly can.
"No one adds just 20% MF and call it a day. You either abuse or ignore it entirely." Yeah seriously with that comment it surprised me how out of touch Jonathan was.
The biggest issue is you can't go efficiently with 99% of the builds so it kills build diversity.
I am personally considering not playing again until they take a hard look at the balancing of the game. As a primarily solo player who trades occassionally it is hard to keep up with a game balanced around group trade.
You forgot the destruction of Betrayal. Quality and white socket benches gone, Aisling which would cost 1/2/3/4 divines maximum replaced by veiled orbs that cost 15 divines right now. The fact that some flask mods like elemental res are nerfed, the access to Ubers that is crazy limited now because dependent on T17 maps (1 mirror to run 100 Uber Maven, really?) and probably many more that I forgot. This league is a shit show, but I'm still playing.
Veiled orbs don't cost 15 div cause they are too rare (which is what most people think). They cost that much because the mechanic feels like shit and people don't wanna run it. There is 0 meaning to the board anymore. It's just bomb rush Catarina never care what member is in which safehouse just level up the ones that you can and interogate the 3* ones. It doesnt matter what member it is or in what safehouse. Everything to get to Catarina faster. And when you reach her 80% of the fight is sitting around waiting for her RP shit. Wait to see if she drops a veiled orb and port out. No point in going in and opening the chests. Your loot filter hides all those rusted scarabs you drop past day 3 anyway.
Such a sad state for betrayal now. IMO a real shame because of all of GGG's attempts to make us actually engage with a mechanic in a strategic way (read your altars, read the remnanants, route the expedition chain, etc...) to me personally this was the only one that was fun. Having the knowledge of what rewards are associated with each member and how to manipulate the board and applying that knowledge to min-max the Catarina fight felt very satisfying. Now it just feels shallow and with 0 identity.
1st they sh*t on heist , moving trans gems to lab.
Now Betrayal too . I dont understand why they removed white socket craft from vorici too.
Betrayal such a gamble now. Like either 15 div or nothing.
And destruction of Delve (resonators are worth nothing) and destruction of Heist (mega nerf on stackeddecks) and how Essences are less accessible for low levels so early crafting is more difficult, and on andon and on
@@netta7563omega destruction of delve. Only a few big ticket items that are rare. No more decent currency to be made off resonators and such. The tree shouldn’t give azurite.
I think the corpse system violates some really basic principles. I don't want to hand place 88 mats ever.
Love how they wanted to combine scarabs and sextants, then made it worse by having you buy 6 allflames per map
And the ironic thing is buying allflames is wayy more annoying than buy sextants cos sextants have 4 or 16 usages so u are good for quite awhile.
@@shawnchia3611 Not to mention they stack, and unless you were rolling sextants you didn't need another tab solely for them. Also when you used sextants they felt good, you would notice a significant different in loot. However w/ scarabs they feel like the baseline, and running without a dedicated atlas+scarabs yields extremely poor results. Forcing players to once again copy the meta, and it was nerfed as well. No clue what GGG is thinking sometimes.
@@charlespanache7047 I still don't understand why they don't add a free (this league only) Stash Tab for such League mechanics (with a stacking slot for each item type and not outside your normal stash).
On the other hand I must admit I enjoyed the concept of Allflames in general. I feel like they were even a necessity for many builds to even be able to get through T17s at all. If they keep those maps as they are I feel like its going to get worse than its already, once Allflames are gone.
And as someone who enjoys the whole magic find concept, the stupidity of going into a >500% more scarab T17 map filled with 10 mod Meatsacks dropping 10 div scarabs on a regular basis was just hilarious to me. But it also really fueled FOMO, as each new strat further killed the economy and soon itself.
@@peterpanzki07will that stay a thing the scarabs or it was only good for all flames. I didn’t play this league but is there a new way to farm scarabs or only tier 17’s are the way now?
@@beasthaven1571 Not Sure If i understand your question, but the new scarabs remain just like the T17 maps. Scarabs have been reworked and drop anywhere now, but T17 were insane drop rates for basically anything including scarabs. But i guess we will.see some balancing changes to that. Some strats worked well without allflames in T17 too (Barrel and Go). Especially the More-modifiers of T17 will likely See changes. So its hard to tell what will be meta. Will have to wait for the announcement.
The major problem with the league was the tediousness of the crafting mechanic.
I'm agreed, it helped crafted good DPS too
The storage of coffins and general UI is such a pain. It only serves to be tedious adding no value. GGG has a weird fetish with that stuff. We already did the work to get the coffins now we have a puzzle and some jank mouse clicks to get a lottery item.
For me the tedious part was buying the corpses... I think they should've made the corpses 5x stronger and give us 5x less graves...
I completely opted out of the crafting part (except picking up the decent ones to sell) and I've been having an absolute blast this league.
For me, its not that its tedious, it the fact to have to repeat the tediousness, if that makes sense? Take harvest, very tedious to setup, BUT once you have it setup, you just go, go, go. Not the graveyard, you have to continue to setup the entire thing over and over.
The reason that all of my friends bounced early actually had nothing to do with the league mechanic. Correlated with T17s, but wasn't them either. They all don't want to buy stacks of scarabs in order to be even remotely functional. They're all alch-n-go enjoyers and this league completely removed alch-n-go as a reasonable option for currency farming. While it didn't stop me, it did have a clear negative impact on my enjoyment as well. Sometimes I just want to blast maps and not worry about juice.
Absolutely this. I loved just alching red maps and felt like I could make enough currency to achieve my own goals, while just playing the game. Now I can either do heist, or if I want to map I have to buy scarabs to do any farm at all, and I do not like sitting around waiting for someone to respond and take my money for the item they're listing
Alch and go is gone!?
@@beasthaven1571 In the current season, Alch and go is vastly less profitable compared to previous leagues. They perhaps offloaded a bit too much power into the scarabs, and too much juice onto T17s which can only be modified with chaos orbs. Common strats of old like Essences, Beasts, and Harvest now pretty much require a full set of scarabs to be decent. Essence got changed so that you can't be at all profitable in low tier maps (map level influences essence tier). Deli orb farming would probably still be decent as alch-n-go if you could use them on T17 maps, but you can't and so demand for them went away almost entirely.
The whole middle class of PoE that enjoyed mindless alch-n-go farming is pretty much gone.
I hope that they make some effort to bring back the middle class in the next league.
@@Noxphur Alch and go or low map essences to gear up was my stuff
@@beasthaven1571 rolling sextants was my go to way of making currency and they completely got rid of that
This league kinda sealed the deal for me to move on from POE. I'm a casual and just don't have the time to keep up anymore.
Headhunters were like 5D this league. It's fine if you're just not having fun, but it was really cheap to make a good build this league.
@@TheTriforce100 not everyone wants a hh I can buy I hh every league but for what?Not everyone does mapping
@@Xdxdxd228 if you dont map and dont want strong items then what do you do and how did necropolis change that?
T17s killed the vibe
they feel out of place on all levels.
Tedious crafting
Forced league mechanic (haunted mods)
Corpses blocking view
Spreadsheet for 1/4 chances to jackpot
The whole crafting as a jackpot
Every 1-2 days something is nerfed
Untouch devs from the game
Intrussive mechanic (Even Metamorph wasn't that intrussive in your gameplay than Necropolis currently is)
Mark's arrogance on feedback
T17 are demoralizing
Ubers are a joke compared to T17
Lowest player retention (even lower than Kalandra league)
I mean, the league isn't the problem here, is how Mark approach the direction of everything. Not even Chris tried to pushback on playerbase sooo hard, and yet, """he plays the game""", how untouch from the game, it's sad. Let's hope 3.25 at least +10% of the league is actually tested.
At this point I want Marc just gone
Why did they remove sextants, just to replace them with scarabs that essentially do the same thing. Yet have to be picked up 1 by 1 in the most tedious way? I love the idea of changing up the game, but adding another layer of tedium + clicks per map, just isn't the path i would choose. They added stackable (dropped) currency to reduce clicks per map, only to regress and add scarabs?
Totally agreed. I stopped playing for two reasons, the league mechanics are just cumbersome, I think that's the best way I can describe it. And T17 was demoralizing in terms of difficulty.
I hate it when they make necropolis so intrusive. I can't even click on loot cause the UI for corpse blocks loot near it.
i stopped playing bc everyone exploited and the market was so bad i lost my drive to play
Necropolis is the league I played the least out of all of the leagues since I started in 3.10. After just 10 days orso from launch I had no motivation to play, felt like I WANTED to play but just complete lack of motivation. I came back to play one build after not playing for a few weeks, but that was short lived(about 5 or 6 days).
This video summed up my thoughts on the league well. I feel like some of the most obvious 'QoL' changes were missed from the early league changes(and some of them actually just didn't happen at all in the end). Stuff like the corpses dropping in maps popping a giant window blocking everything, and as you mention a way to layout the graveyard without placing each corpse in each grave by hand would have been huge. Meanwhile corpses taking 2 slots in your inventory on top of all of the allflames was just insane inventory management bloat. T17's were a big miss for me, especially after they said that they weren't intended to be the new endgame farm and instead were meant as an interesting stepping stone to ubers, while the actual implementation was something significantly more difficult than ubers and on top of that the monsters just have a ton of bonuses so of course they were naturally going to become the insane new farming strategy once a character is powerful enough to do so.
I have to say that I'm also quite frustrated after so many leagues by now that they're reluctant to nerf the most obvious top end abilities and won't buff some of the things that nobody has played for many leagues. Player DD has been in dire need of a substacial nerf for YEARS at this point, while their excuse for melee being bad is that they want to basically do a larger overhaul to make it feel better to play - but why not just improve the numbers on these skills in the meantime, these things are not mutually exclusive, you can buff melee damage so these things are at least playable in the meantime while they work on a bigger shift. I hope 3.25 is a good'un!
So true.
I love your content btw but right now I can’t watch anything Poe related that isn’t rant about Necropolis 😅
I like DD though… it’s so fun why nerd when you can just buff other things 😅
On top of everything else, having atlas passives for the league mechanic kinda sucked. I thought the idea was nice at first but all it turned into was mandatory points you had to spend to maximize the league mechanic. I still think they should be on the tree, but it should be more of a keystone thing where you only pick how to make the mechanic different, not you straight up lose profitability by not spending points.
There should have been a node on the Atlas tree that disables corpses, allflames, and the whole thing on the map device, and could gives like 5 atlas points as compensation.
The node that gives you 20 atlas points but disables scarabs is decent example.
There is a node. It’s on the bottom left. It stops all flames and ability to mods become automatic. Corpses still drop though
The main problem for me, I felt how shitty trading was this league. You want to bulk buy copses, and it's 35+ person in the list who is the first one to acknowledges your trade request.
They need a buyout system… it’s fuckin ridiculous. I guess that does lead to bots buying all the good shit. Idk.
Well i fell somewhat guilty. When i zoom zoom in map with some Headhunter buff( which is only thing keep me alive in tier16 b2b) i will ignore any PM buy corpse have value under 1 div.
as a super casual who just follows guides every league but has been playing for a decade+ the lack of qol's and mid/bad leagues have just been stacking up the last few years. at this point i just check out the league launches because thats what i've done for so long but i now usually drop the game in a week or 2 as opposed to the 6+ weeks i used to play.
I've heard this echoed a lot. Poe 2 beta getting delayed didn't help as well with the anti-hype, kinda forgot to talk about that
@@Palsteron are you optimistic about POE2? I am finding it really hard to be, it looks like D4 and seems to play even slower than that which is not going to good.
@@BlackbeardKNACnothing like d4
For me, it was how quick they were to nerf any decent strategy. But somehow never had the time to add ANY QoL, such as the corpses blocking your screen, or making it so you cant target enemies.
to be honest a better decision would have been ,making the fragments drop from the lower grade pinnacle boss (uber shaper fragment from normal shaper and so on ) then people could also learn the fight a be better in the uber fight.
This is one of the most scuffed ones for sure, in week 3 i thought its already second month of the league lol (Its like looking at watch every 5 second expecting it to go faster because you're so bored).
I didnt visit Graveyard a single time, so no items been crafted, i dont want to interact with this mess, i dont want to play mild version of gauntlet - i just want to be happy, okay?
Added difficulty for no extra reward and the largest divide in raw drops we have seen in a long time. It feels good to get a div drop more than once every couple hundred maps if you are not doing group play or MFing at the upper end of the game.
Please keep up then fight that MF is a huge problem. I feel like I'm screaming into the void when ever I talk to anyone about it.
MF is the worst mechanic put into any ARPG ever. I do not want to make my character weaker on purpose.
How is mf a problem? Do a strat that you dont need mf for, and leave mf to us who enjoy it.
mf + group play is really bad for the balance of the game.
@@VoNxPluTo Magic find exasperates the issue between strong and weak builds. It creates a situation where you can literally be losing wealth due to depreciation the first couple weekends if you're not MFing.
@@VoNxPluTo The leagues mf is broken strong it kills the economy for people that don't do it. It kills build diversity since you are super limited on what skills are strong enough to be able to just have 4 completely dead pieces of gear on. It's a plague on the game and should be treated as such.
Thats what you get when you put the trainees to run POE while you focus all the bigD devs on POE2
This! They are happy to burn goodwill by delivering bad league after league for POE2. Funny if they threw a P2 party and no one shows up. Never happen though. I'm sure we can expect 3.25 to be another in the long line of dumpster fires.
Just gonne copy + paste a previous comment I made:
This league came out when POE2 was originally supposed to release. During the planning phase they underestimated the size POE2 would bloat to.
I expect the next league (and especially the league after that) to be much better.
My guess is also that thats why they experimented a lot this league. Since it was going to be unpolished anyway you might as well get some usefull data from it.
thanks for putting my feelings into words
GGG is putting all coins on POE2, it will end killing both… 😢
Yeah honestly they semi killed poe1 for me, ill have to skip a few leagues cause of the sour taste.
This league came out when POE2 was originally supposed to release. During the planning phase they underestimated the size POE2 would bloat to.
I expect the next league (and especially the league after that) to be much better.
My guess is also that thats why they experimented a lot this league. Since it was going to be unpolished anyway you might as well get some usefull data from it.
Agree, one of the worst leagues so far.. also dropped it after 1,5 week
One could think , they set the limit to 64 to sell more stash tabs .
But who knows .
Also the broken explod. Totems where added by GGG,
bcs there was a race for ubers on ruthless. Im sure its the only reason they kept it in the league .
Not originally at least. Since you had to pay to itemize the corpse. After changing it to free itemization, it starts to come off that way.
people don't have infinite money. I bought 2 quads, but when they all were full and after sorting stuff, 75% of my tabs (not special) were corpses I just quit the league. I don't want to play inventory management simulator, sorry ggg.
PoE isnt only option anymore. They have less tolerance for experiment. My fear is if they cant hold avarage player numbers, they would go predatory monetization route which will start the downfall.
Like they haven't done that already lmao
No, I agree. I dropped my first mirror this league after 9600 hours. Didn't change my will to play it.
Lmao bro, same 😂 after 10k this league
Its time for test other games
That's because when everyone is dropping mirrors and hundreds of divines the thrill is gone. Who care if you own a Ferrari in a town where everyone drives one right?
@@Kvodan To be real guys, if you played 10k hours this league then thats why you are burnt out. that shits not normal.
@@BlackbeardKNAC everybody isn't "dropping mirrors" though. You need to watch someone play who doesn't play as a full time career mate.
You mentioned the increased effect of map modifiers and back to basics farming methods of T17s. I think without those they are in fact a stepping stone to ubers (at least after they let us reroll them with chaos).
My main gripe is that the atlas tree "hat" nodes give increased effect of map modifiers which means if I want to engage with T17s at their base difficulty, I am cut out of most of the bossing nodes on the atlas. So I need one tree for farming T17s and one for farming T16s to drop T17s.
The graveyard crafting was also a little too powerful imho and they overbuffed it. I made an insane phys bow (triple T1 phys, T1 attack speed) in SSF and I felt almost nothing when I got it. I think recombinators really got it right. Some amount of chance to make insane items but not so high that you're basically guarantee something insane for some build.
The league mechanic on the tree was also an interesting aspect though I'd rather have a separate tree for the league mechanic only, again something sentinel got right.
I think GGGs point about magic find being another axis to scale would be more valid if it were available outside of very specific uniques. For example, if it was a corruption implicit only or something.
It is always very strange how ggg explains why mf is good. They speak to it like you can swap out 3% of your power for 3% more loot in a snap decision. That's not how this game has worked ever, you cant just magically poof on some rarity for one of your suffixes on your gear, and poofing in 3% quant would be useless anyways.
Gear is crafted meticulously through deterministic ways until its ready to be worn. I'm spending 10-30 div to buy a fractured increase rarity piece and craft it to full, or I'm dropping an entire gear slot for a dead unique for the quant. I'm not sacrificing some of my damage for a small increase in loot, I'm dropping entire pieces of gear or crafting whole new pieces of gear and building my entire character around mfing and hiring a fucking aurabot to be able to run the t17.
@@whiskoo9941 they like aura bots as well so that is a good incentive according to them :D
I really wish they would reconsider the 3 month league cycle. in interviews they seem almost proud of how close to the wire each league release is, but it doesn't give them enough time to readjust the core design when there are fundamental issues. GGG is the leading studio in this genre and not an indie company anymore. its reasonable for players to expect a more finished product than what they have been delivering lately.
has there been a 3 month league recently? It doesn't seem to matter when they are released tbh as they all need various patches after
Leagues are 4 month lately
Imagine being on console. There is no bulk trading, and it made this league feel really bad. In addition, searching to buy the reasonably priced corpses made you have to scroll through over 1000 pages of coffins. (Takes about 20 minutes each time you wanna search) Yes, I know you can message on the website, but few people reply when asking to buy.
yeah the trading process on console is diabolical, what I do is use the trade site to search for an item, then go to the market board and search for the item by name if it's a rare. But Innocence help me if it's a bulk item or a unique, then I get to hover over every item one by one to check the price
I’d reply to you on console….when someone messages me >~< I’m happy cause I could be mid lab or content I can’t leave and give a reply of one moment or doing x yes no and reply
@@etrosknight2254it’s so hard hyped poe2 merges all crossplay
well worth the watch
I totally forgot that sentinels had their OWN TREE! I want them so baaaad!
Ye the robos was fun and the easy crafting with the recombinators. We was running so many glacier maps i remember.
Spot on video, this could not have been said any better.
I wonder if t17s were simply NOT being run by the vast majority of people and just being sold, so they tried to add some easy juicing rewards to them to up the number of people trying them?
or because they were only run with the sextant blocking either suffixes/ prefixes.
I mean I'm pretty sure it was a compensation buff for the strat they removed from the game at the same time at least that's how I took it.
Würde für mich zu lange dauern, dass alles zu übersetzen, daher kurz und knapp in meiner Muttersprache: Ich stimme dir voll und ganz zu. Habe trotz 24days playtime nicht einen graveyard craft gemacht. Die Gründe hast du ausgeführt. Du hast aber auch einen einen Grund genannt, warum es trotzdem lohnenswert war zu spielen. Das Spiel insgesamt und insbesondere der Atlastree und der Scarab-rework sind einfach grundsolide und bieten den für mich passenden Spielspaß. Guter Build, optimierter Atlas (wieder tausende Unmakings verballert) und go. Die Alllflame-Embers waren auch ganz ok. Keine League, die mit den großen Leagues wie Heist vergleichbar wäre. Eine coole Leaguemeachanic wäre für mich auch nur noch die Kirsche gewesen. War aber auch ohne sehr nett. Vielleicht sind meine Ansprüche im Moment auch zu niedrig. Danke für deine Einschätzung!
Kitavas Ice bolts got me all my voidstones, favored map slots (1st time; second league ever) and a few t17 clears. Was hella fun. Looking forward to whatver you got for next league! Thanks!
If they had the lantern function like it worked for Acts (where prior area clear impacted next area lantern options), they could have curbed the fishing issue, and give a sense of progression for chaining maps and kinda curating your lantern effects.
Honestly thank you for this, I brought up this issue in another stream about T17s (Difficulty/unfun/forced builds) and I got told that I need to "Get gud and its a skill issue" because I don't want to be forced to play top tier meta builds and have the fomo of "If I dont do T17s then im at a massive disadvantage".
Like I get it, there will be groups that will beat solos, there will be people juicing harder but at least with T16s it felt like an even playing field, not where two days into a private league the CoC DD player is farming t17s dropping a crap ton of loot. (Actually happened to me)
All good points. Hope Mark/Team watch this even if its not a bingo
Scarab system killed the League for me.
Finished Atlas, did all invitations and farmed ~100 divines in 5 days of play.
Then quit because I couldn't stand the new lategame.
What was wrong about the scarab system tell us more. Is 100d really that bad in 5days that sounds pretty good
@@beasthaven1571 Wasn't about the currency. Was just the regular first week Mageblood grind. Profits from grinding was pretty much same as previous leagues.
My issues was that I didn't find the grinding fun or enjoyable. I never got to the T17 grind since I quit so early and just played T16s like usual. But the new endgame is just not fun to me. I hate how mapping is all about going full vertical into one League mechanic since you only have 4 Scarab slots. You can't really juice up your maps like before with several League mechanics to create unique and tailored strategies since the profitability of each League mechanic is based around running 4 Scarabs. Also hate that too much of your profitability in maps just is generic scarab farming.
In previous leagues farming was way more enjoyable because I had the agency to do what I wanted. If I wanted to farm Legion + Breach + Harbingers I could do that. If I wanted to farm Harvest + Essences + Ghosts I could do that. If I wanted to farm Blight + Ultimatum + Harbingers I could do that.
This is not an option anymore. Now you run a cookiecutter generic tree for all farming strategies consisting of all map effect nodes and all scarab nodes. Then you pick one mechanic to put the rest of your points into and juice it up with Scarabs.
This has made endgame farming extremely dull and unexciting to me.
For me Necropolis is super nice, I started in sc trade an get burned out after 1-2 weeks, than I restarted in ssf hc - and oh my god the league Mechanic is excellent for ssf 😊
It's powerful, but power doesn't necessarily equate to fun. I still hate the way to use it, and needing to use up all my tabs and quad tabs to store coffins. This League is ultra pay2win with stash tabs.
@@lifeloverNorris yeah, its tidius, but im a spreadsheet andy :) so i can enjoy it, but i understand if someone has no fun with it
Sentinel was one of my favorites as well. I still have my fractured enlighten 4 gloves :)
Well covered i think . Thanks for the wrap up .
I liked the multi fractured itens and perfect rolled itens but having to buy 88 coffins... This league would've been a blast if we had action house tbh
It's interesting because the resultant items of the necro crafting were pretty similar to like, recombinator items. Just it was waaaaaay more fucking annoying to curate your corpses, you had to kinda already have a plan while you were "building" the craft. Just a million little instances of fuckaround when a functionally similar mechanic just dropped what amounts to a giga awakener orb for you to yolo your gear together with.
Sharing my experience as someone who plays since delve league, but rarely ever grinds to endgame bosses - I actually did most non uber content this league, still playing at this point to figure out what atlas trees I''m into, and didn't engage much with trade but managed to get a reasonable amount of divs with no exploits. All of this, because I enjoyed playing the holy relic of conviction. It's rather odd that a build incentivized me to play more than the league content itself, only to realize - if that is the case, then the league mechanic was barely worth engaging (and I agreed with all the points mentioned). I already liked holy relic and saw it go meta and kept playing it, worried that it'll get a heavy nerf next league, despite it not being the most op thing ever. It's easy to build around, but that doesn't make you instantly tanky or a one shot machine. If anything, it shows exactly what you said, fun builds tend to lag behind. And as soon as something gets deemed "too easy" it will be instagibbed with little consideration to how weak it was before. The regular holy relic is still not that strong, it should be buffed to compete with the transfigured version and not the other way around. It pains me to see that so many skills are left on the dirt and it becomes more and more apparent the more leagues we get that the market doesn't want us to use them. Then people like me, who barely have the time to even know about exploits or only get to maps in 1-2 weeks post launch, feel easily demotivated because the devs, while discussing balance, don't spend a lot of time thinking about those who have to compete in a market working against them from day 1 in terms of efficiency. I know it's hard to cater to casual players and hardcore players alike, but it'd be a hell of a more fun to see even 50%+ of skills being competitive, regardless of the market. Still waiting for non poison DoT build buffs, my wintertide brand dream is melting ^^'
This >~< I need to be faster but not the time to play
The league (coffins, scarabs, allflames) are designed this way in order to force players to buy stash tabs.
I will explain what you are experiencing:
There are backbreakingly bad leagues, like Lake of Kalandra. Sudden hard shifts for the worse in a massive way that draw plain outrage.
Then there are bad, boring leagues. Kinda like Crucible, and now Necropolis. They're bad, but not so bad that there is outrage, people are just exhausted and hope things get better.
People cannot take bad leagues forever. Maybe one or two, even three or they just get frustrated. How much somebody will take depends, but I left after a week. The league mechanic is painful to interact with, and I saw the first patch and then left. They only put out one patch after the first week, and that is it. Why would somebody stay?
To abuse divine printing? T17s? Are those fun methods or reasonable to do?
There isn't much else to do. I'd love to play other ascenandices like Gladiator or Winter Orb, but they're so bad and they can't keep up. Or death's oath, but they are garbage and I am essentially playing with additional difficulty if I do.
I'd rather wait for a good league
PoE: the game where rares are harder than Ubers 😂
Although my time with Necropolis was short, it was the league where i became the strongest. I got my first mageblood and completed all ubers for the first time. Crafted nutty fractured/influenced gears that i would have never done in all the previous leagues (maybe harvest). This league was the highest power fantasy experience ive reached from all my time in POE. It was so easy to get geared and craft god tier gear, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
It was also really hard to go from Last Epoch to this PoE League. I went back to LE after a week
Well put together video and I think you cover most of the major points.
Personally, I wasn't able to league start properly from day 1 because of, you guess it lag, freaking lag where ping would jump to over 100k. It persisted for around 5-7 days, I was able to play for around maybe 10 hours total within that time without the interruption of lag. That completely ruined my mood about this league as it obviously make me lag behind most people.
Great summary, I completely agree, thank you.
Very well said, you touched every complaint i had about the league and i played a full 2 months then got completely tired of the league mech even tho i have crafted some pretty crazy items that im very thankful for.
They shouldve make corpses can be traded/fulfilled with Arimor to exchange for currency/div cards etc...
Thanks for the amazing analysis, just wanna add some ssf perspective:
I usually do my leaguestarter to get my atlas complete, then build into some sort of map farmer to farm enough crafting mats and uniques until i enough to create a nice boss killer. last season i had a pretty nice blade trap trickster and a indigon mana stacker (nice in terms of ssf, nothing crazy in trade) and killed ubers even more than once cuz i had so much fun.
this season on the other hand i stopped after the voidstones cuz i really didnt find ANY motivation in myself to do another map. i agree, with you: i wasnt angry or anything, it just was apathy.
when i saw how annoying reaching ubers was I just quit. the last implementation maybe wasnt great for trade, which i agree was horrible design, but the current drop rates are just a joke for ssf. and since they just stole the meaningful loot from normal pinnacle bosses, all motivation to do those is gone. in my mind, normal pinnacles dont even exist anymore (just elder for the eye).
the league mechanic is barely worth mentioning for ssf : i got an relatively early 6-link which is nice, but after that... the farming required to get something meaningful is just crazy. while being a lot stronger maxed out, the main problem is that you usually want the same corpses over and over (more gems and less attacks eg) so while you farm those, you will get quad tabs full of other corpses. i got full on ptsd after my 3rd quad tab when i even looked at them.
I collected over 20 stash tabs of corpses and never used them, because the mechanic is to clunky to use. I planned to do some crafting but eh,... We get so many UIs that fill up our whole screen (betrayal, alva, delvemap, beasts,...). Why not a map of the graveyard and bury the bodies from there? It's kinda fun that the necropolis is an extra area we can walk around and inspect. But it makes the crafting so annoying. That's like if you would need run through the bestiary and pick the beasts for crafting manually, while still needing 4 specific beasts. If necropolis crafting ever comes back i really hope they change that.
They need to remove necropolis from existence, other than the clutter and tiresome aspect, the items crafted also have too big an impact on the economy like 6 x t1 weapons or armor flooding the market and make gear chase too trivialised.
@@shawnchia3611 I would assume the crafting power get's changed if re-introduced. In league the specific crafting is often broken. When re-introduced it get's adjusted. It's necessary to make the league specific things interesting while putting a bit of a damper on powercreep.
Looking forwards to T16.5's :p
Im so addicted to this game that im still in the league doing challenges while being one of those leagues that i really not having fun.
Cemetery is tremendously powerful maybe the most OP mechanic we had so far but managing corpses and not having the option to skip the lantern was a huge mistake and probably killed the league. The need to have several quad stash tabs to actually play the league was also a big mistake, people will pour money into this game because they love the game not because they NEED to or else.
Couldn't agree more with the video. Solid feedback for GGG. I tried to hard to play this league but couldn't do it, just felt wrong and annoying. That's coming from someone that plays hundreds of hours each league and even played a bunch in Kalandra.
This league was nice ... np with the league and it was fun to play
nail on the head bro, well said. I kept giving the game a chance here and there but ended closing the game after a few maps. Sealed the deal when an amazing item that would sell in an hour to in a few minutes would just sit in my Trade tab because the amount of people that still play this league 1.5 months down is so low now.
Great sum up, I lasted about 2 weeks too then moved on, not a fan of crafting leagues
On t17s - As someone who normally plays glass cannon map blasters, I was happy this league I decided to try something new and did DD necro. I was able to farm t17s fairly easily because of it. One thing about t17 mobs I don't get are the revenants with the on-death/Detonate corpse effect. It gives you maybe less than a second to get out of the effect otherwise it's a 1shot (even with the 500k EHP I had). For one of the QOL's released at the start of the league for corpse explode to have animation/sound/timing based on severity, why did they leave (or add) this one in that doesn't abide by that?
I started playing during affliction, cant comment on most stuff do to lack of experience, i really appreciate the simplicity of grave crafting and having the ability to get most items i need relatively easily and cheaply
In Kalandra I played the whole league because my TS CoC Ice Spear character dominated archnem monsters so I dont think I had issues like many players. This league, however, I've mostly been playing Standard, deleting old characters, regearing others that were broken by losing alt quality gems and other nerfs, amassing divines and mirrors, and focusing on a couple expensive projects for fun because that's more fun for me than gravecrafting in a dead league
Agree on Kalandra part. When Kalandra or how i would call " Archnemesis Terror" came out, things were rough, tough to play and league mechanic itself is just to much damage and tankiness, but they adress Archnemesis problem really quickly and things got better (Then they reitroduce it in the next league as if Kalandra situation never happend, sh`t happen). This league had complete opossite result, changes didnt help and league remain to contain problems that bugs people out (Extra hard, extra clunky, no tab space, economy is funky etc).
I hated the T17s, the league crafts take a long time to be possibly good (and sometimes a few tries). looking forward to the next league
I played this league for about 6 weeks and only really lost desire to play 2 days ago. I enjoyed graveyard crafting since it gave me and my friends gear that'd we'd normally never be able to afford, though buying corpses sucks. but really the entire market just sucks to use most of the time. I think I've blocked over 1000 people by now and still have waves of adding 30+ people at a time. the league mechanic just highlighted it really badly.
5:45 As someone who liked the graveyard, I only ever did a single craft with 40% adjacent booster since it was beyond painful to try and buy 30 corpses you needed and then add on "I want to buy 15 of X, 12 of Y, 3 +50s, and explicit reroll corpses. And all of the X and Y corpses need to be Demon." "Sorry don't have any demons." "no +50s or explicit reroll either?" "Yes but not demon." "I only need X and Y demon." "Oh. okay." *trade* made trade a lot more confusing for people.
T17s felt like the dumbest joke GGG has played on us. Everything else about them aside, with how hard they are locking the 5th map slot behind them is so stupid. Thanks for giving us all these cool new scarabs to use it should would be great if we had the extra map device slot to actually use them while farming. I know most scarabs can be used by itself, but some really work a lot better with 1 or 2 other scarabs on top so not having it available means you just can't run it, or can't do combo strats on your atlas as effectively.
25:30 the league mechanic being force sucked a lot early mapping. every time I rolled "accompanied by map boss/harbinger/exile." was basically gg map since friends and I weren't strong enough yet. It really sucks trying to finish mapping when you only have 1 copy of said map between your group you're clearing with.
Also the 64 corpse limit plus them being 1x2 is what had me purchase 2 quad tabs. I had the all special tabs, and like 8 regular premium tabs I'd use for holding things but when I filled 2 of them up in a few hours of farming I knew I was going to need so much more space. This was by far the most P2W feeling league in terms of how stash tabs have feel. So many corpses became skip or itemize and toss on ground if covering up something useful very quickly to try and save space.
Ive been saying this a for the whole league, they rly shouldnt have had one of the most impactful league mechanics at the same time as a total endgame overhaul. Too many changes in a league that has a huge juicing component and a huge crafting competent, would have been much better served with a league mechanic similar to Tota
Maybe magic find can be a long term league mechanic like delve/heist (or sentinel? I didn't play that) where players can progress with it throughout the campaign
Multiple Micro Nerfs " / Nerf to Currecny Strats and FOMO as a Result
Overcorrecting Fun " ( see above )
Wheighted Trans Gems after a Week in ( I got the Good Ones Relativly Often Early , then didnt . Bad RNG ? Sure , but it was kinda Obvious )
T 17 ( Forcing Players to Play Overtuned Builds or they miss out )
Forced League Mechanic or Rather Difficulty
Divine Chance Nerf on said Mechanic ( Making Stuff even More Scarce for the Sake of it )
As a Somewhat Tryhard / Semi Casual Player , this League just didnt feel Right . Stuff felt to Scarce and Forced " . Hope that next League will be better .
What ruined it for me was the divine/seer fishing nerf. Rather than make it tied to how much of the map was cleared, they just gutted the entirety of it. What is the point of the mods at this point?
Can this whole video be made into a Bingo board somehow
otherwise its worthless to Mark! :)
Good feedback. Let's hope they listen, learn and improve future leagues. Kripp quitting on day 2 hopefully made a lasting impression.
Very good post mortem, i really hope that someone in ggg takes the time to watch it, and learn from their mistakes, for the next time
Crafting leagues are almost always streamer leagues. The only exception was Sentinel because it was so easy...just slam two pieces of gear together.
Sentinel league is a good example of a crafting league done right. Nothing too complicated or tiresome but still have a lot of depth and more importantly, no extreme clutter.
The issue of difficulty and build diversity is a definition of vicious circle. GGG adds a new, difficult endgame system -> only the top builds can do the system so people won't play builds that otherwise would be fine -> over time we get buff/changes so more builds are able to reach the new benchmark -> now we can complete those systems on a budget league starter and don't have any true aspirational content -> GGG adds a new, difficult endgame system. Old pinnacle bosses were to easy, so we've gotten ubers and when we've reached a point where ubers could be defeated with a bleed boneshatter ssf build we've gotten t17. The cycle goes on.
When I saw that graves first time and lerned that they removed option to put molten sell under "move" button I was out...
The scarab that preserve othet ones i got it once only while curation i got like 100 plus wtf
Pal, can you explain to me why GGG doesn't use a PTR? You'd have to think that the loss of the surprise factor for each league would be outweighed by having launches run smoother and not have two weeks of a total gong show every league. I cannot understand this.
they do have people who alpha test. just not open to the public (which it shouldnt be).
Mark is a big fan of aurabots. Any questions?
"deal with it" (c)
Mark is a 10 but he likes aurabot
Rmt
12:35 I got my first Divine swap of the league today! Managed to fish 125 divs xD
I could use a few challenge leagues while we wait for the league to revive
I wouldnt be surprised if they always intended to change the corpse itemisation to be free but started at 1c to slow down the use at league start
Everyone forgets about the awful decision to remove the ability to bind instant skills to left click and introducing automation instead, which does the same thing but worse and costs a gem socket.
Automation can and should be bypassed completely by using numlock, which is clunky but is also the only way to cast an instant spell on CD without CDR nerfs or losing a socket.
That change made a lot of builds incredibly clunkier yet gets slept on due to everything else in Necropolis being a dumpster fire.
Great analysis, Pal. The point about silly but fun builds being made worthless by T17's is the one that gets to me. Don't make it so everyone has to play one of 3 meta builds for max div/h. Some people want to play off-meta stuff - don't hate the meme builders.
I'm just hoping GGG is taking all of this feedback into consideration and learn from their mistakes. I know they can, because they've been through this before. One can only hope, though.
I'm still playing and learning, even though I'm not really enjoying the league. Biggest thing for me is the added difficulty with the lantern mods. So stupid. It's like a mini-Misery Gauntlet. lmao
Maybe a bit off topic but for me main issue with PoE is that you die way more often by random one shots than just three leagues ago. I haven't played much Necropolis but last league I had a TS Deadeye with bloodnotch+immutable force, spell suppression and many more defensive options that pob made to around 50k ele res and 100k ehp. If I didn't run T16s transmuted at most I would never have a chance to get to level 100 and I only did alch&go without delirium or things like that.
Nothing was wrong with it. It is awesome. I think we need to differentiate between leagues, and base game patches.
Sounds like they just need to Kill Group Play and MF for the health of the game.
As SSFHC Player,i have to say this leagues mapping was insane rippy. Like every Pack of Goatmens, Fireball Skelles or Cannibals are more feared then the map boss. Haunted mods can get crazy combos.
I was forced to skip Necropolis League because of schoulder/arm issues (likely caused by playing too much PoE...) and I'm happy I had to. Just watching content creators deal with the league mechanic already burns me out and I'm not even playing. I don't know if it's a general feeling that I'm being bombarded with so much real life and society crap or that it is seeing my favorite game slowly being destroyed I don't know, but it's hard for me to feel anything for PoE and PoE 2 atm, like the apathy you described. Maybe playing for 12 years was enough, but when the most hyped thign about a league is the announcement, maybe it's time to sit some time out.
T17 made me feel like that beginner player who struggle to get to red maps and wouldn't dare dream about t16 juiced farming.
i actually didn't mind graveyard crafting... but the bottlenecks they created with corpse rarity forced me to do what i hate: trade.
Yeah, if there were better drop rates I would have enjoyed the mechanic way more, literally the only thing I disliked about the graveyard crafting was having to trade no matter what because even after like 3 days of grinding corpses I would still be missing 5-10 of them >_>
Seems like the issues at leaguestart, other issues with the league, and glaring issues with prior leagues all go back to the same thing: Alpha Testing. Who in the world are their testers? And is it a case of A) the testers they have aren't capable enough to see a lot of the issues a more seasoned player could see or B) like we've heard about in the past, testers *are* giving feedback about these issues and are being ignored.
Not to mention that this league, specifically, Mark said they had up "longer than normal" on alpha test.