It's Not About Relationship, It's About Religion
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2023
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Before I became a Catholic, I spent a lot of time in #Evangelical churches trying to find my fit and a popular platitude in those circles, at the time - and possibly still is, was, it’s not about #religion, it’s about #relationship.
The takeaway being that religion, with its duties, practices, and disciplines is a negative distraction and that all you really need is a relationship with #Jesus.
And It’s cathartic for me to say, all these years later, that this is really, really, badly, wrong. It’s illogical and it’s #unbiblical.
Because this term “relationship” is a really nebulous and empty term. It just means that two or more things interact with one another, usually by proximity to each other. So, the sea has a relationship with the seashore. A tree has a relationship with the air. I have a relationship with my wife, but I also have a relationship with carpenter ants in the wall of my house.
Everyone has a relationship with #God by virtue of the fact that he is the source of our being. We are derived from his being. He sustains us and allows us to be. Even the #devil has a relationship with God.
There’s nothing special or notable about that. The key is that we ought to have the right kind of relationship with God and this is determined by HOW we interact with God - because there’s a right way and a wrong way.
Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
Podcast Version: brianholdsworth.libsyn.com/ - Розваги
As a Protestant, thank you. Protestants in my neck of the woods often speak badly of "religion", like it's an evil word. Jesus did not come to abolish religion. He came to establish a true one.
But he also hated the human culture and traditions the Pharisees kept
@@bikesrcool_1958 Jesus hated cruelty, and false righteousness, and arrogance. He hated those things about the Pharisee traditions. He never once chastised someone for following the traditions - he broke the traditions when it served the poor, the sick, or the vulnerable, and only then. If your "religion" doesn't value what Jesus values, yes he dislikes your religion. But if it holds Jesus' values found in the beatitudes and Ten Commandments as the highest possible standard for human life, then religion is good.
@@bikesrcool_1958, that's why He established the true religion: Christianity, the relationship with God.
Christ established the true religion: Christianity, the relationship with God in Jesus Christ.
Religion is like the law. The law kills. Why did Jesus come if not to address the problem of the old testament. Keeping rituals without a relationship with God is empty. If people fall in love with Jesus, they are more inclined to be dutiful towards the religious aspects of Christianity. You don't put the cart before the horse.
As a mother to many young children, this really speaks to me. Sometimes the only love I have to give is simply meeting their needs out of duty. We have moments of tenderness, when we play or read books, but most often my love is shown by how I fulfill the duties: middle of the night wake-ups, meals, laundry, etc etc. I wouldn’t be lvoe without both duty and tenderness, which is why Mass and proper worship are essential and come first, but personal prayer has to be a part of a healthy spiritual life too.
All those things are part of love. We both give and receive. With weaker ones needing more from us. And then the Lord can fulfill our needs, if we can receive it from Him.
So well said.
I was brought up Roman Catholic and left to learn all about Protestant way of life. I am so unhappy with the way we show lack of reverence to the Lord with our Starbucks coffees. I am coming back home to Catholicism. I always love hearing your view on it. I am so happy I am not alone.
Welcome back sister.
@idankpoaugustine1983 Thank you for that. It's been quite the journey but I'm ready to get back to the way God wants to be worshipped.
@@terawhitaker God is great, would you like to share your story a bit here? Maybe there's someone who'd benefit from reading it here.
@@idankpoaugustine1983 Sure. My mother (RC) and my father (Baptist) had to get remarried in the church after I was born and my father had to sign papers saying we would be raised as Catholics by my mother. I've always believed in God since I was 3-4 years old. I went through all the sacraments and confirmed Catholic.
Met my husband and I started dating in 1999 and have been together since. He is agnostic and I didn't want to pressure him like my mother did my father to get married in the church. I didn't really understand the benefit at that young age of submitting to church authority and making sure I was following doctrine and I started looking at Protestantism. It didn't seem to challenge us in the same way of making sure it is a Catholic Church and so we got married in a Chapel.
I learned that there are a lot of Protestants that think that Catholicism is a cult and it is heavily criticised. I felt like I didn't know enough about the Bible and church history to be able to see through all the criticism, so I went with Protestantism. A cowardly act.
I've been on a quest for truth the last 5 years and it has led me to see how other Protestant Christian faiths are practicing Christian life and it just feels like.. well.. people just do what they want and everyone gets a passing grade. Woke culture is rampant and no one seems to want to step up and defend our faith and traditions.
I have found now that my soul is craving adoration of Jesus, tradition, structure, and a place to call home in my new state SC. I want to get settled into a Catholic Church here and start serving our community and continue to grow in Christ.
I made the same journey 25 years ago. Once I studied the Church Fathers and starting reading the Bible, I knew Catholicism was true. Welcome home!
Interesting. I'm converting to Catholicism and this described my disenfranchisement with Protestantism
Welcome to the one true faith. I also converted. It was the best decision of my life.
Same here. Congrats on finding grace!
I listen to Brian from time to time to see what he is getting right and where Catholicism has deceptively blinded him. Here, what he is saying is basically true. But please do not return to Catholicism. Catholicism is Roman paganism rebranded by renaming the old gods with the names of Mary and the saints. It skirts true Christianity, but it is not Christianity. Find yourself a good Baptist, Methodist, or Presbyterian church that still holds to traditional practices and theology. It will be a small church and probably mostly filled with older folks. Stay away from the mega-churches and their self-oriented beliefs and practices. God bless you on your journey.
@@The_Light_Knight "Baptist, Methodist, or Presbyterian church that still holds to traditional practices and theology"? These churches are far from the traditional practices and theology of the early Church. Only Catholicism has an unbroken lineage from Christ to the Church. The Roman Catholic Church is only the Western church, there are also eastern Churches that are in full communion with Rome. How dare you talk about the Ark of the Covenant like that? Disrespecting the Mother of God. "Generations will call me blessed"! Repent.
Religion is there to facilitate the relationship. Yes of course there's good relationship & bad relationship, just as there's good religion & bad religion.
this is good
Good one. I'd love for you to expound on that within context, though! :)
And good liturgy and bad liturgy
"We owe him the sacrifice of our self esteem""
Amen!!!
Sooo very well said!!
I would agree with all your points. But I think the "Relationship>Religion" argument, if we Steel-Man it, really comes down to this idea:
Doing what God says for Fire Insurance versus doing what God says because we love Him.
I think this is the key difference people are trying to get at when they bring up "Relationship>Religion", but it's just articulated poorly. A parent who only takes care of their kid to avoid going to prison for child abuse/neglect is still a bad parent, but a parent who takes care of their kid even when they don't feel like it because they love their child is a good parent. Love for God is the defining characteristic which makes our obedience meaningful or not. Without loving God first, our obedience to Him is completely worthless. This is why the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
And let's be real, there are a lot of people who are pursuing Fire Insurance rather than loving God.
I know I’m pursuing it
Sheesh! This is so well put. I knew this just did not know how to put it in words. Thanks mate!
I still don't get it. According to Jesus obedience and love aren't separate. They're the same. Faith and action aren't separate. They're the same. I disagree with needing a feeling or emotion to qualify obedience. I mean the parent analogy doesn't really work because it's actively sinful which most well meaning religious people that want to be saved aren't. A more fitting analogy would be a boy is obedient to his Father because he doesn't want to be punished - and I'm struggling to see the problem in that? Isn't that why God and Jesus warn us and the children of Israel all the time because he doesn't want us or them to be punished for our sin? If God doesn't want that motivation to be in us then why does he warn us?
right. and when Christ says to so many who call to him, "depart from me, I never knew you," he's talking about the relationship they didn't have with him. But they'll say to Christ, "lord, didn't I do all these things religiously for you?" -"depart from me, I never knew you" = that's some harsh words....but really true words. How much did I do for Christ? How much did he do for me? I have nothing to give that would amount to his perfect sacrifice. I love him for the gift and I have grown in a relationship with him and with God and people all over. I love them and I feel bad or these people who are so lost in the world. Swept away in the crowd headed to destruction. So many people can't be all going the wrong way, _can they? Wide is the way, and heavily populated it is which leads to destruction.
Brian your videos are so helpful to me as a poorly catechized Catholic trying to navigate all this information
I love this video and 100% agree with you. I'm a Catholic convert of 2 years, and as an Evangelical for 40+ years the "relationship, not religion" mentality began to drive me crazy. You are right -- it is illogical and unbiblical. Religion is not a dirty word!! Thanks for sharing this.
Honestly I usually start your videos but at a certain point you lose me, but this one you knocked out of the park. I've been watching since you became catholic not religiously but when you bring up something I think is important I watch . This was gold. I guess what I'm looking for is a " not another inch " mentality, we've already lost so many that if we as catholics don't start wresting back our religion from our corrupt culture we will lose even more. Again this was a good one
Agree! He did knock this out of the park and it is gold! Beautiful!
How is the Catholic religion a part of "our corrupt culture"? What precisely is "corrupt" in Catholicism?
In reality, religion should fuel relationship. The end is God, and the mean is religion. The relationship>religion idea came about when combatting legalistic religion in which religious actions became the ends rather than the means. Both are important and both are misrepresented in these debates.
Bingo
Do good relationships not have boundaries/rules to follow, even if not formally written? It would seem strange to have a relationship without some sort of code to properly guide it. And is there not a code of conduct that leads one to a good relationship? Also, if there is some sort of code, there must be one that is optimal. This is where the formalities of religion, particularily Catholicism, come into play. Thanks for the video!
There is a great quote from the classic movie "Lawrence of Arabia":
"With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me, it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable."
👍💯 Happy Assumption Feast Day! Hope some of yall got to do a novena to Our Lady this year. ❤
Well said.
This is a POV that i find almost impossible to get across to my secular and even some of my practicing family and friends,
Namely that any approach on our behalf to the Almighty beyond that of a vague personal comforting presence is considered to be either somewhat odd or openly odious.
any attempt to elaborate is, sadly, considered to be moronic or malicious
Still, none of this is surprising as a practicing Christian living in the world but it still smarts to be considered so poorly by people who actually know you quite well
This is why I am exploring orthodoxy. I grew charismatic (gong show) discovered reformed theology/ calvinism at 41 and now at 50 disenchanted and found myself through a book I read "rock and sand" by father Josiah treinham and others questioning protestantism. I will see where it all goes.
As a Protestant I firmly agree with you. God bless you brother 🙏
Why are you not reconciling with the catholic church? Is it the hard teachings? Is it hang ups with the lies about catholics being idolaters? Just curious. If you are interested, I recommend listening to Scott Hahn or other ex protestant converts to help get you over doubts or hang ups.
@@miriba8608 thanks for the recommendation. I was a catholic growing up but I didn’t have a real understanding of the Bible. I believe the Catholic Church have a lot of false teaching ( and also the evangelical church) but I stand with Sola Scripura ❤️
@@kelonie6217 and i wonder what flavor of denomination that teaches you the "real" understanding of the bible, albeit 900yrs later after the Catholic Church gave that book to the world.
I think this video needs a part #2 for further explanation. I understand what you are saying but I think a lot of Christians need more clarifications in the nuances you are discussing. I know you are not discouraging people from having a personal relationship with Jesus but the video can come across that we need to "do" a bunch of stuff the church teaches to be saved and prove our love for Jesus. This is partially true. I believe more Christians are suffering today from not having a personal relationship with Jesus then not following religious rules. In my own life, my personal relationship with Jesus has made following the church's teaching much easier and fulfilling. Its important to have the church's frame work to judge if in fact we are having an authentic relationship with Jesus but discouraging or diminishing the personal relationship aspect with Jesus is a mistake. I would argue they are co-essential.
Jesus clearly teaches that even if we do holy things in His name but never know him personally we will dismissed from His presence. Matthew 7
Pope Benedict XVI said to a 2008 audience: “We are only Christians if we encounter Christ. Of course, he does not show himself to us in this overwhelming, luminous way, as he did to Paul to make him the apostle to all peoples. But we too can encounter Christ in reading sacred Scripture, in prayer, in the liturgical life of the Church. We can touch Christ’s heart and feel Him touching ours. Only in this personal relationship with Christ, only in this encounter with the Risen One do we truly become Christians.”
It seems to me that BXVI provides the point of integration: it is only through religion ("reading Scripture, in prayer and in liturgical life") that we can actually encounter Christ in order to have a relationship with Him. In an analogous way it is only through the bonds and duties of Matrimony that one can have a relationship with one's wife. No matrimony = no spousal relationship. No religion = no relationship to Christ.
@@phoenixcatholic5367 I agree with what you are saying. The personal relationship should be the end and goal and religion is the means by which we get there. Brian's video doesn't make that important nuance.
Given that so few Catholics faithfully attend Sunday Mass I would be inclined to disagree. Many of those same Catholics assume they are in good relationship with God even though they disregard how He wishes to be worshiped. The relationship seems to begin on human terms and not God's.
Very good. I preach this same message as a Reformed pastor. It's a needed corrective to a common trend in too many evangelical churches.
Agreed it turned me off in my own search. I realize it now but didn’t then but the main purpose of going to Mass IS worship. It’s not community, or the Eucharist or reading Scripture even. These are all secondary. The true reason why IS to worship.
And don’t get me wrong I see a lot of lazy Catholics showing up how they’d never appear for a job interview but go that way to Mass. I wish the Priest just posted on the doors to the Church the proper dress code.
There’s this issue among Pastors to not ask too much from the laity. I view this as a mistake. When people are held to a high standard they reach for it.
Yeah, it really becomes tiring hearing the "it's not about religion, it's only the relationship" thing again and again, and rebranding their religion to make it not what it seems to be.
This is absolutely one of the best explanations for this I have ever heard. GREAT video, Brian. And it also addresses the "Christian" who likes to say, "I'm spiritual, not religious." Well done.
I hear this in Catholic circles too. Thanks so much for speaking to this issue.
Yes among the uninformed. Many people can’t even put on something decent to go to Mass in. They go to work better dressed
Having a relationship is one thing. But it can either be a good or bad one.
In fact, we're going to be judged directly on our relationship with Christ.
"I never knew you." -Jesus
Thank you for this content. May I ask, what specific title of the soundtrack that you used in the intro of this video, and by whom?
What's that lantern/light called on your bookshelf? Trying to find one online. Thanks in advance!
www.etsy.com/listing/894511100/hanging-gothic-lantern-diy-kit-medieval?ref=yr_purchases
The topic you mention at 2:42 about love, so true. I had a girlfriend, 5 months on the relationship and all my feelings for her dissapeared in a panic attack I had (Which later I found out to be OCD). I loved her as a princess even though my feeling for her was so little or somedays none, she was loved as any woman should be. Love is from the concience, not from the subconcious, Jesus said love your enemies, not "have warm feeling about your enemies". Sadly we broke up because my difficulty to believe in God, she was all in about her faith and I was always having doubts, and even our church sadly brainwashed her into believe her compulsions (OCD sufferer too) to leave me because God was telling her that, even though we had something precious and I knew it was just her OCD. I hope one day to give her my love and my care again, because the circumstance I lived with her about feelings, taught me how to really love.
What a great topic! It's a great microcosm for many of our current issues.
I'm a cradle Catholic who has had a very strong reversion and interest in learning our deep and rich Catholic faith since about mid to late 2019 and it really took off in March of 2020.
I have found myself saying and praying that I wish I had a better personal relationship with Jesus Christ and even mentioning it to a priest in confession that I'm a little jealous of all the protestants who do seem to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This priest then addressed this personal relationship in his homily during Mass.
I'm only a few minutes into listening to this video but I'm looking forward to hearing the rest.
how is this beautiful painting in 5:59 called? Does anyone know?
@@EdFranklin-qv1bf thank you, lol, the author is my countryman and I've never heard of him before
People seem to forget that God established a church…
They don't forget it...they MUST IGNORE IT otherwise protestantism can't work....
Oh, I can’t like this video enough. Simply amazing.
It’s one subject I feel so strongly about.
We live in a selfish culture were it is all about “Me, Myself and I”.
There is something refreshing about Catholicism were the attention shifts from you to something beyond, from the Transcendent God to the ancient Traditions and Rituals.
My conversion to Catholicism from being a protestant has been blissful.
I cannot thank you enough for making this video! I often hear “it’s about a relationship, not a religion” from people that want to skip going to any church, sit at home binge watching The Chosen, and call that worshiping God.
Interesting video. I definitely agree with some of the points here, and I would say I have a renewed sense of awe for the greatness of God and the sacrifice He provided us
I will have to disagree with the main point of the video though, that it’s about religion and primarily holding to our duties. Jesus made it very clear to the Pharisees that this was exactly their problem (among many to be fair), that they were putting the law above the relationship. I definitely agree that we should not pray only when we feel good, or that we should only do things that make us feel good, because we will not always feel good. BUT, I do not believe God wants us to live in numbness either. Usually when we don’t feel good about our worship or duties, it’s because we’re doing it with a performative mindset. In other words, putting religion above relationship. This is exactly what Paul meant in 1 Cor 13; “ If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.” And how do we gain love? By recognizing that He first loved us. We love because He loved us first (1 John 4:19)
TLDR: rituals and the religious side of Christianity are important and should not be overlooked, or done only when we feel like it. But if we do not do these things out of love, we will always wear out, and our walk will be fruitless and without joy
It is not about feelings which he related to that of parents.
I have thought this for years.
Now I will shout it out!
I thought I would disagree with you but I watched the video anyway, and I found myself agreeing with you. It is totally about the right relationship, and love isn't a feeling it's an action. And the word religion simply means something that we bind ourselves to. It's what we live for. Some people are weekend warriors. They party for 48 hours and go back to their job. That's their religion. It has a mindset, as well as duties and responsibilities. Or sports. Or comic books. But it's when we turn to God that we find peace. And that is something I'm willing to bind myself to. Thanks for this video.
Absolutely well-put, thank you. Also, can somebody please tell me the title of the song played at the beginning of Brian's videos ?
That was excellent Brian. Truly. I like to say that I am religious, not spiritual. It's a great way to start a conversation :) Especially at a family gathering...
I agree, Brian! I will say, however, whenever I encounter fallen away Catholics who become Protestant, it’s because it was the “relationship” part that was lacking. Maybe with converts going the other direction it’s the opposite? They hear so much of the relationship not enough the religion, the covenant. But it’s our love for Christ that compels us to obey Him, to serve Him, to worship Him. “If you love me you will keep My commandments”. I DO think the personal relationship is vital. Maybe both and?
At 5:15 .. soooo true. I think many Christians use the excuse of “relationship” because THEY are the ones who get to determine how that relationship is lived out. “Jesus is cool with me skipping church this week”.. “Jesus is okay with me sleeping around, he gets me”…
I love the video of the Traditional Solemn-High Mass. That's how we should worship Him.
Appreciate your video message. I agree that many professing Christians aren't taking God as seriously & treating Him as the lord of their life as they should. I also am convinced that much of religion - "Rules without relationship, tradition without truth." - is also a problem. There is a 3rd door here that I see scripture teaching, and it's a both/and. Many people pick one over the other. I love how C.S. Lewis sums up his essay Man or Rabbit, which touches on this idea:
"All right, Christianity will do you good - a great deal more good
than you ever wanted or expected. And the first bit of good
it will do you is to hammer into your head (you won't enjoy that!)
the fact that what you have hitherto called 'good' - all that about
'leading a decent life' and 'being kind' -isn't quite the magnificent
and all-important affair you supposed. It will teach you that in
fact you can't be 'good' (not for twenty-four hours) on your own
moral efforts. And then it will teach you that even if you were,
you still wouldn't have achieved the purpose for which you were
created. Mere morality is not the end of life. You were made for
something quite different from that. J. S. Mill and Confucius
(Socrates was much nearer the reality) simply didn't know what
life is about. The people who keep on asking if they can't lead a
decent life without Christ, don't know what life is about; if they
did they would know that 'a decent life' is mere machinery
compared with the thing we men are really made for. Morality is
indispensable: but the Divine Life, which gives itself to us and
which calls us to be gods, intends for us something in which
morality will be swallowed up. We are to be re-made. All the
rabbit in us is to disappear - the worried, conscientious, ethical
rabbit as well as the cowardly and sensual rabbit. We shall bleed
and squeal as the handfuls of fur come out; and then,
surprisingly, we shall find underneath it all a thing we have never
yet imagined: a real Man, an ageless god, a son of God, strong,
radiant, wise, beautiful, and drenched in joy.
'When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part
shall be done away.'2 The idea of reaching 'a good life' without
Christ is based on a double error. Firstly, we cannot do it; and
secondly, in setting up 'a good life' as our final goal, we have
missed the very point of our existence. Morality is a mountain
which we cannot climb by our own efforts; and if we could we
should only perish in the ice and unbreathable air of the summit,
lacking those wings with which the rest of the journey has to be
accomplished. For it is from there that the real ascent begins. The
ropes and axes are 'done away' and the rest is a matter of flying. "
The Catholic Church is all about the "both/and" approach.
PLS GIVE ME NAME OF THE MUSIC
🤺☦🇷🇺100% Brian! You nailed it, because that is also the exact ancient Jewish view, which Ultra-Orthodox Jews (real Jews) reply to the Zionist heretics (the Jewish equivalent of Protestants): God didn't say just let my people go, as in the fake liberal interpretation that take it to mean a symbol for "freedom", but He said "so they can worship me". God did it for the sole purpose of giving the Israelites, and later to whole humanity, the LAW to keep forever.
Yes, yes, YES! Thank you for this reminder that the heart is fickle and that duties and responsibilities, even to God, are often a matter of obedience more than 'love'.
Thank you Brian for solid Catholic teaching....its shocking how that prodestant theology has crept into Catholic thinking.The spectacle of that kind of emotionalism was on parade at world youth day. It began with charismatic renewal in the 70s and is now in Catholic parishes running Alpha courses.
I am telling you. it's the same thing happening in the Catholic churches back in Africa....they are becoming more protestant. It just breaks my heart😢
@@ifeomaoluhara9421 Even Muslim "churches" in Africa have embraced charismatic elements. I think it's debatable whether humans are suited for a serious religious services or for more emotional and informal services. Anyway, did not Jesus do both?
@@joeoleary9010 Charismatic movement is very similar to African animism, that's why even muslim in Africa affected by it.
Absolutely, a relationship is simply 2 things interacting with eachother. The relationship itself is not what’s important, but the state of the interaction is.
I could not have said it better myself. I was a low church evangelical for many years and what started my move towards Catholicism was this precise realization.
Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to articulate this thought without evoking anger and verbal attacks from other low church evangelicals.
Maybe this video will help me share this thought. God bless you and your ministry.
So interesting! I loved your take on how God brought the Israelites out to worship Him and gave specific instructions on how to do that. I do a lot of work in the New Evangelization (intersecting with a lot of Protestant movements). Although I feel in my experiences sometimes that the "primacy of feeling" does not always conform our life to Jesus', I have experienced significant moments of encounter and communion with Jesus. Because of my Catholic upbringing, those moments have motivated me and given me space to embrace tradition and worship through the Liturgy today. Do you think it's possible to say "It's About Religion AND Relationship"? How do we play a part in proclaiming the true Gospel to every nation effectively?
i think true worship and obedience is possible only when we have a personal relationship with Christ, the essence of Christianity, “remain in Me and I in you…” so relationship (the “good one”) is everything.
Maybe via eucharist which is literal Christ entering body.
What exactly do you mean by that relationship?
@@damnedmadman that relationship is what constitutes being a Christian… Christianity is relationship with a Person, the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ… that is why its called Personal Relationship (NOT private relationship)… because of that, the words and commands of Jesus are everything for a Christian…
@@noelnana2059 What's the difference between personal and private? Or you rather mean interpersonal?
@@damnedmadman yes you can say that…
Yes, I find that evangelical phrase irritating as it's a veiled dig at catholics..and orthodox. Also, the term: 'Bible believing Christians' is another.
Hi Brian, thank you for sharing what I consider is great content. Will you consider doing a video on the history of the San Damiano Cross? It was very instrumental in my returning to the Church.
Oh shoot, Friday really snuck up on me!! I could have sworn it was Tuesday this morning... Oh well! My Holdsworth Clock is never wrong, so today is Friday!
This was wonderful! Thanks so much ❤️
For those who cannot make the leap to Roman Catholicism, I'd encourage you to attempt an exploration of Anglo-Catholicism-not because of any claim to it being the one, true expression of the faith (it isn't), but because it is a great way to explore the merits of an orthodox liturgical service in a Protestant context. It captures a lot of what Brian is saying here, ie. a consistent, committed duty to worship that does not focus on the self, but rather on the Body of believers as a whole in their collective response to grace.
It’s an interesting dance, in my view. It could easily go in either ditch. Casual impertinence vs heartless form & duty. His commandments include our emotional state, and although we can’t manufacture emotion, he has given us the promised Holy Spirit and can work in us to desire things on our own we cannot force ourselves to desire. Duty is necessary but insufficient. I find the traditions & rhythms are very emotionally stabilizing. As a Protestant I sometimes feel the desire for more structure to make me less anxious. I see the reactive movements back and forth in the culture over time between Protestantism & Catholicism.
Thanks for sharing.
Both, and. I was raised Catholic. Was given plenty of religion. The thing that was never passed on to me was a relationship with God.
The stories I hear of the saints is they had a profound personal relationship with Mary or Jesus or God, even while they lived a disciplined religious life.
Hey brother! Prot here but interested in some things about Catholicism. How did you get around the dogmas of Mary being sinless, and indulgences, etc? I also once read a Catholic say when praying for someone “they need Mary”, instead of “they need Jesus” lol. Thanks you!
Hey Adison, ik I’m not Brian but saw your comment so just thought I’d direct you to some resources. I’d really recommend checking our Trent Horn (The Counsel of Trent on YT), he makes some great Catholic apologetics videos that could help you. Also you should read the book Rome Sweet Home, it’s about a Protestant theologian’s journey to Catholicism and he explores some of the issues he had along the way. If you google I think you can find a free PDF of it online. Anyway all the best with your faith journey, may our Lord lead you to the fullness of the Truth. God bless.
I really enjoyed this video, and I totally agree with what you've discussed 👍
Loved the "crox and Starbucks"😅
you said something real special. we owe it to him to give something special outside of myself. great clip!
Thank you. I’ve watched you for years and appreciate the hard work you put into doing these videos.
That was awe inducing and eye opening video. Thank you for your labor and may God bless you and your family.
Amen! Thank you for this video. I grew up Protestant and my family and I converted to Catholicism about a year and a half ago. We love the fullness of His church!
Thank you for tackling this topic. It’s something that has been needing to be said for a long time and you’ve done a great job explaining it! Next in line for an explanation is the admonition to “encounter Jesus”.
Couldn't agree more!
Very well said, Brian.
IMHO, this is just another case of focusing on love but neglecting justice. Giving proper worship Is right and just.
I've seen too many atheist TikToks that try to dunk on the notion of a relationship with God as "Well do you know His favourite book? What kind of food does He eat? Oh, you don't know anything about that, so how can you say you're in a relationship with God?" And that's always been a shallow and uncharitable response to when people say they want or seek a relationship with God.
I would actually want to write a children's book that tackle the subject, maybe call it "What is God's favourite colour?" to highlight the things you mention that the relationship you have with God is unlike anything else.
I may be 21 years old with no kids of my own (yet), but I'd throw money at the kickstarter.
I get it…but in true honesty…to have a healthy relationship is not just an emotion. So expressing our duties as was said, by choosing to love, is what a true relationship is. So depending on your definition, relationship and religion work together.
Me coming out of protestantism and looking at that statement it's not about religion it's about relationship sounds very Gnostic
It's more just a terrible understanding of definition than anything gnostic. It was more or less constructed to shit on catholics than actually be a coherent definition. Religion also has become a dirty word in the last few hundred years (thanks to the French Revolution atheists) and so it's been hammered into us culturally.
@@drooskie9525 what I'm talking about gnosticism is like this extra knowledge and it's kind of like oh I feel God I spoke to God and God spoke to me and we're in this relationship and how I see protestantism after being in it and searching out every form it seems more and more like a hidden knowledge which is kind of like gnosticism
I can never manipulate my heart to have feelings using reason. I have a terrible and, as you say, inescapable relationship with God. So much so, that everyday I wish I didn't exist altogether. The "whether we feel like it or not" attitude is nothing but a breeding ground of the most profound resentment to the other who shows up in no good way in our lives. It's also known as a one-sided relationship. Abusive people and cults also use this tactics of bullying yourself until you're nothing but the perfect tool for someone else. This war on feelings is going too far, I hope that this is not what holds catholic marriages together
You preach brother. Idk your denomination but I'm subscribing
My biggest issue with the idea of "Relationship Over Religion" is similar to the issue I take with "Science Over Faith" - they're just two sides of the same coin, thus rendering the whole debate moot.
"Relationship & Religion" are what make up the whole coin of Catholic Faith. Similarly, "Science & Faith" make up the whole coin of the human experience. To live with one but not the other, you end up depriving yourself of the fullest possible experience. "Religion" without "Relationship" leads to merely going through the motions - there is no love for Christ involved. In fact, you end up worshipping the motions rather than God. But "Relationship" without "Religion" leads to decadence, self-indulgence, and things like **shudder** The Sparkle Creed™️. Likewise, "Science" without "Faith" leads to big-headed scientists with unchecked egos which, in-turn, can lead to atrocities. Not to mention the depressive, nihilistic worldview where nothing else matters except self-indulgence. But "Faith" without "Science" would keep us chained to the days of "Geocentrism" and we would never advance, scientifically, as a society.
It shouldn't be made into an "X is better than Y because..." argument. "Relationship" and "Religion" should be viewed as complimentary towards each other - like "Men" and "Women" or "Science" and "Faith" or "Peanut Butter" and "Jelly."
Thank you!
"it's a relationship," spoken as though we don't have one.
As a cradle Catholic, this negative understanding of religion has always really disturbed me. When I hear Protestants use it's almost always in a judgmental way and not only towards Catholics but towards fellow Protestant believers. It's true that just following a religion in a legalistic way is not what the Lord intends for us and the legalistic approach has hurt me a lot in the past because I juat can't live that way but I do have the personal experience that sometimes the duties and obligations are the only thing that keep us from walking away from God completely. Sometimes I go back to Him because of my sense of obligation or fear but in the end He uses it to draw me closer to Him and restore the relationship. I understand that the distinction is made to show the difference between real connection with God vs. just following some rules and obligations but in reality the distinction is not that clear cut. When I hear people say that many Christians aren't real Christians because they don't have true relationship with Jesus, I think it's not this clear cut. I really don't have the audacity to think I can distinguish where one ends and the other begins. It's not even true that you can judge it by identifying a certain point in the life of a believer when he encountered and accepted Jesus. I believe these things are almost always more gradual. Even if someone has a clear cut dramatic conversion experience just as St.Paul or St. Francis of Assissi for example, it doesn't mean they didn't have a (positive) relationship with God before that. There is always a process that leads to the conversion.
Everyone has their own level of discernment and I'm a 💯 grounded on the Solas.
"Lazy, decadent, self-infatuated culture" . . . 🤣😂🤣 >< BOOM!!! ><
AWESOME way to put it, Brian. NAILED it! I love this!
Thank you for this, Brian. So true.
I'm in a position where i agree with everything you said if this, but the video you mentioned with the young mans spoken word relationship/religion really hits home and i agree with....
I agree with this video. However here is the thing, When I bring up this point "it's relationship and no religion" I bring it up to the people who wants to do the religious work because they want to go heaven and not because they Love Jesus. Let's be honest there are people who attend daily Sunday mass so that they don't end up in hell, not particularly because they want to know Christ.
You see I am not saying religion is not important. It is important with right heart.
It is religion when you have a relationship......
with Jesus.
This brilliant. Brian has a unique gift for apologetics.
God bless you mr. Holdsworth.
i get your point but its still relational. "these people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me"
There is an irony in this statement. The people that are religious are arguably more "devoted".
I agree, and there is the irony. These people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.
So we must ask what are they actually devoted to? Is it God or something else?
@@preemphasis3 I would say that people that have thrown religious devotion out the window are much closer to just basic simple profession than those that sacrifice significant time to engage in devotion to God.
Again I agree
James 1:27 ”Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unspotted from the world.“
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the pitch here, though Matthew 7:21-23 suggests to me that our salvation is about knowing Christ (or being known by Him), and yes, doing God’s will. But doing the will of God seems to stem from that relationship. According to these verses, many do miraculously things in His name without actually knowing (or being known) by Him.
one important thing to consider is that they claimed to do miraculous things. Jesus confirmed none of them and called them lawless. They're defining characteristic was they practiced disobedience.
One of the thoughts that drew me towards Catholism, was the thought that, "maybe religion is not such a bad word."
In my protestant circles that thought was blaphemous.
I told my friends one time that, "i dont think that Jesus would have had a problem with beimg called a religous person"
They thought i was crazy.
Week after week, this thoughtful, intelligent character hits it out of the park. If you find me a more effective Catholic apologist on line- anywhere- I'll eat my hat.
I suspect that most Protestants (and recently modified Catholic pastors) - who advocate for a 'personal relationship' - really mean what Catholics used to call 'pious devotion'. Piety is the kind of love that is committed to work at keeping a family together, through thick and thin, and the devotion signified in this regard is to dig deep down into one's own least frequented levels of dedication, a self-sacrifice, in truth. It involves some degree of emotion, as a driving force, but its rests chiefly upon hard-worked moral reason; at times it is over worked or hyper compelling, and so can be deterimental to the soul (and for the souls of those who must endure that tiring/ trying soul), which is why moral reason must be the basis, being able to draw a line - however elastic that line needs to be, not least in assessing ourselves.
At heart, and in busy daily .. 'Oh! well, let's get on with it' .. life, it is closest to an abiding friendship, where love extends far beyond liking and into teeth-grinding sighs. Very few us are really good friends to Jesus - let alone to the body nearest by - we do what little we have to do to get through in an imaginary love-hate scale, traversing what is often desert-dryness with only spots of encouragement (most of which we do not perceive or recognise sprinkled around us .. btw, being too busy in getting on with getting on), and on occasion, in some familar silence, or an unspoken proximity, then a passing fresh breeze, maybe a dollop-splash of refreshment will wake us enough - but just enough - to restore reason to her throne and a sense of how truly favoured we are (even if only to feel the weariness of the day, after day, after day).
Some of us, though not many - are called share for a long period a predelection of love in Christ, as a 'victim soul' - perhaps rather more often than our confessors or psychiatrists admit or understand.
Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek.
God bless. ;o)
P.S. Such a 'pious devotion' toward Jesus, the very Man Himself, can be done, gentlemen, even today, and so simply .. when we let the soul speak, if falteringly .. or together in humble choir ... for His ear is turned near to hear us, if only we open our heads and hearts to the Lord our God:
Sweet Sacrament Divine: Melody Consort
ua-cam.com/video/KFjENA9zBUw/v-deo.html
I have been telling people for years that religion is the expression of one’s faith. It is so easy to be seduced into thinking that God is interested in a relationship without religion.
Absolutely God is interested in a relationship with us. A personal relationship, but if you think that He has no interest in ritual, you’re not scripturally sound. Just spend some time in the book of Exodus. God seems to spend a lot of time defining worship. He is specific on all aspects of that worship. From the proper garments, vessels, layout of the tabernacle, sacrifices, etc.
I highly doubt that God has no interest in proper liturgy.
The difference is found in the sacrifice offered to The Father. Instead of the blood of animals being offered as sacrifice, we now offer true sacrifice. The perfect sacrifice. The Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world.
I've heard this phrase - that "Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship" - ad nauseum from many evangelical preachers on television. They seem to think it's some sort of theological jiu jitsu whereby they can say to atheists that Christianity escapes their critiques, because Christianity is not a "religion" - an answer that, in my opinion, is too clever by half. But I'm curious: does anyone know the origin of this idea? - it seems to be a late 20th century development.
they want to have a relationship because they think God will meet them on their terms
I recently saw a video that tracked the beginning of this to the Jesus People movement which makes sense as it was a countercultural hippie movement. I have always wondered about this as well.
@@patrickpelletier9298 agreed. The statement is usually followed up with a complaint about rules and regulations and the requirements of attending Church.
...and they forget that God gave us rules and regulations in the NT and asked us to belong to a community of believers and love each other.
It's a very convenient way to remove the fear of God from the picture and act like God is your buddy and make the framework for that relationship very ambiguous.
If Love is reflected properly in duty, than why does it go so far beyond it, dying on a cross to testify to it? May I never settle for a duty based love. My I never settle my heart in general, for the Love of God is infinate.
This was great!
Did not mince words. Love it 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Wouldn't the deep feeling of affection and primacy of the heart drive you to fullfill your duties? If someone did things for me solely out of a sense of duty and responsibility I would still feel unloved. Even though parents do things for their children out of duty there is still an overwhelming feeling of affection attacted to it at its core that persists isnt transitory and actually motivates them. Is the feeling part not at all?
Wow!!! This was fantastic!!
I don't think of it as love or feelings versus religion or tradition, if someone reads the new testament and falls in love with Jesus for what he said or did or someone falls in love with another person, those feelings come and go, it's then when we have to do the things wether we like to or not to keep the"relationship" Alive and to continue grow in love.
Part 2? What makes the Catholic way the correct way?
Same that we teach at my church. Baptist. The Right relationship. The actions are evidence of love
this video needs more views
I would disagree his equation I think the viewpoint should be "Relationship + Religion".
Protestant perspective here:
Let me start by saying that I agree when you say that there isn’t a reverence or “fear of God” in many religious circles. It shouldn’t be about us- it really should all be about Jesus. That’s a lesson that can apply to all of us. First to the Protestant, but also the Catholic.
With that being said, I think scripture does lead me to realize that God wants far more than just religious practices. Just look at Isaiah 1 or David in the Psalms. Even if we fulfill all of the ‘law’, if our hearts aren’t God’s and if our actions don’t reflect that, it’s all meaningless. Even the passage that was referenced from Saint John, the contextual command to me seems like “Loving one another”.
Jesus’s goal for us seems to be “reconciliation of all things”. I think you could rephrase that as “all things having right relationship with God and each other”.
Maybe I’m making an unnecessary nuance, but in the end, I think a loving relationship with God is still over duty and religion. Im not saying those things are bad, but again, I think a relationship with God is more than (but enveloping) discipline.
Just my thoughts :)
"primacy of heart"... "heart needs to be governed by reason and duty and will and by our promises" (time 3:25). Muddled as "heart and mind" were "one" in "those who believed" (RSV Acts 4:32).