French Underfolding Paratrooper Rifle: MAS 36 CR39
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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The CR39 ("crosse repliable", or folding stock) is the paratrooper version of the MAS 36. The need for a more compact and transportable pattern was recognized almost as soon as the MAS 36 was finalized, originally for paratroops but in practice also for alpine troops. Two years were spent devising the new rifle, starting in 1937, and in 1939 is was formally adopted. The barrel was shortened about 5 inches (from 575mm to 450mm), and the wooden stock replaced by a cast aluminum stock that folded underneath the action. A unique and very cool sling design went Alon with the new stock; a spring winder (like a car's seat belt) was fitted in the stock so that the sling would coil up neatly as the stock was folded. These winders are rather fragile, however, and usually broken today.
A small number of CR39s were produced before the 1940 armistice, and production restarted almost immediately upon liberation of St Etienne. The CR39 would remain in production until 1960, with almost 34,000 made in total. For more information, check out my new book, Chassepot to FAMAS: French Military Rifles 1866-2016 - now in stock and shipping!
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I love paratrooper versions. B/c a half century later everyone went, "Wait a minute. Those guys who carry everything on foot might want a compact weapon too.".
@@TheRealColBosch Except most engagements in Afghanistan are beyond the M4's range...
@@xandercager5276 Call weapons company, artillery, CAS... modern army has tools for everybody.
@@TheRealColBosch look up Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afghanistan: Taking back the Infantry Half-Kilometer written by a US Army Major at the Command and General Staff college instead of asking random people.
@@TheRealColBosch And then bull pups became a thing so you can have a 22” barrel in a rifle shorter than an M4...
@@TheRealColBosch One thing you gotta appreciate about the AK family is they always had folding stocks from the very beginning they knew that was gonna be a thing
For anyone curious, he had videos hidden on the channel and only just released them publicly, this is why it was uploaded 4 months ago but hasn't been seen.
Suppose it's getting (eventually, soon) unlisted in honor of the release of Ian's French rifle book?
@@ArcturusOTE possibly but also he just has a release schedule where he films in different locations several videos in advance, if he released them all we would get a bunch of content at once and then nothing for a while
This not the old ones? I thought he already reviewed it last year iirc
That explaines alot
I figured Ian has a lof of video's shot from several themes, auctions and musea, but releases them criss cross not to bore the audience, for staying with one theme / location etc too long: for variation & diversity
At first glance that stock looked really uncomfortable but then the close ups made it look only "slightly" uncomfortable...
It has a good shape but if you will use in the snow the "leather cover" will be your cheek but in the desert you will have a portable frying pan
@@zaikolebolsh5724 does not sound fun...
@@widgren87 because it isn't
I don't know... It has a certain quality to it. I kinda want one.
It looks like it just waiting to cause someone pain to me 🤣
Reminds of the old saying about French Engineering and imitation being the ultimate flattery
"The French copy nobody and nobody copies the French"
Today we can ask why they didn't build it side folding, but I have a impression that under/over folding stocks was really common at the time. So maybe the engineers were just following the trends, after all, the whole rifle was conceived to be as simple as possible (for the time).
George Kelgren's first company, Grendal Arms, their folding SRT rifle seems to be heavily inspired by this. Didn't have the sling, but close.
The French engineers were given a problem and solved it with a French solution. A bit like a Citreon 2CV car !!!.
Actually japanese copy french weapon with a little improvement
There seems to be a certain quirkiness if not whimsy in french small arms design .
I can't imagine being in desert storm with modern bullpups all around, and getting handed one of these antiquated folders. What a way for your c.o. to play favourites
I'm not hating on it - it's definitely a cool rifle but can you imagine getting handed one of these in 1990? You'd look at the kid in the arms room and say, "What in the f**k am I supposed to do with this? Hang it over my fireplace?"
It makes a lot of sense as a survival rifle in an aircraft. Nice and compact to stick in some hole in the plane. The full powered rifle round nice for tanking down potentially large fauna you may encounter. You aren’t meant to use it if you see serious armed opposition.
@@88porpoise - fair enough. Though I'd wager it was issued so late out of expediency more than anything.
Wes Harris Oh, it certainly was. But if you keep in mind the expected usage (ie not getting into a firefight with enemy troops) it isn’t a terrible idea.
In « desert storm » french air force crews had MAS 36 CR 39 and PAMAS (Beretta 92 under license).
When you think about it, this was one of the few pre-MAS-49 French rifles to feature a mechanical safety, by way of having the stock obscure the trigger mechanism when folded.
Ha. The safety is half the rifle.
@##### Smith it's halfway safe.
Anything paratrooper has a special place in my heart, always some interesting innovation incorporated into them.
The movie project for which "Fake" Cr 39s were made is the wonderfully underappreciated french movie "Dien Bien phu", about the battle of the same name. It was directed by Pierre Schoenderffer, a former french war correspondant that actually was dropped on Dien Bien Phu in the later stages of the battle, and spent a few years in a viet minh prison camp after the fall of the french defenses. I would advise anybody interesssted in the battle to watch this movie, it is absolutely wonderful (and, as a french, gutwrenching).
When my grandfather did his military service, he got enlisted in the 17ème RGP (Regiment du Génie Parachutiste - 17th Parachute Engineer Regiment) and was issued what I guess would be the CR39 (he mentioned it having a folding stock, and since he went through the military service in the early 60s I'd guess that's the rifle he had).
This is the only folding-stock rifle the French military issued, so yes.
@@ForgottenWeapons Thank you for the reply, can't wait to receive my copy of Chassepot to FAMAS to learn more about it as well as the other rifles !
@@Jemson In the late 70s I saw SIDE folding stock US M1A1 carbines in a "portes ouvertes" PR week-end in the 17ème RGP barracks in Montauban.
So it might also be this weapons he was issued with.
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 I was going to ask when they stopped using M1A1s, so both options are possible I guess.
I like your avatar
French army: "We want a paratrooper rifle"
Tefal: "Say no more"
Tefal wasn't around when the model was designed. Tefal was founded in 1956
(otherwise the joke was good.)
Chipsopasta it looks pretty good, but can we get a surrender handle on it.
@Mack Sarnie I have seen others that look just like this,Ian said later ones had a green rubberised coat but havnt seen one myself
@@mattford4056 So amazed by yank victories in Korea, Vietnam, Irak and Afghanistan...
@Mack Sarnie That's what aluminum looks like after many decades of corrosion. When new it would have been smooth and shiny.
Having a bare metal stock isn't just uncomfortable when it's cold; in temperatures well below freezing, it'll peel your skin off.
That's what I immediately thought of when he mentioned cold climate, i imagine a lot of cloth wrapping(or duck taping) happened in the more extreme climates.
Yep ! And the easiest way to deal with this, was tu put a sock , or the sleeve of an old shirt on it!🙂
And it did peel skin off. That's why some rifles had their stock covered with a kind of plastic film
>>my new book is now in stock!
>>misses the opportunity to actually have an actual book in actual stock
great gun great video
Neat. Had I not seen this video and encountered that rifle I would have thought the rear stock had been broken previously and someone with a metalworking hobby fudded up a new one.
Finally - a MAS 36 I can EDC.
Iirc, this rifle was on the BATF restricted list for a while because the rifle's folded OAL length was too short to be imported.
@@justacatwalkingonakeyboard4454 - I'll say - can you imagine the veritable explosion of crime that would have ensued if they would have imported these?!? Whew! Close one!
Rest of the world: You can't jump with full-length rifles!
Rhodesians: hold my shorts
US Airborne troops during WW2 did jump with full length Garands. (not that there were any other variants of the Garand made, to begin with)
@@MrDgwphotos Garands were disassembled when put into the drop bag. Trigger group, stock and barrel and receiver group
@@MrDgwphotos we also had the m1 carbine and the Thompson
@@grahamlopez6202 Note that I did NOT say that the Garand was the only weapon the US Airborne troopers carried during WW2.
@@MrDgwphotos I know, i wasnt bashing you, just reminding you incase you'd forgotten
Very evocative is the image of these dropping with the lions into Dien Bien Phu. I suspect not many came out in French hands...
That grip looks horrendously uncomfortable.
I'd still take it over an early STEN
Alex Winebrenner Seriously, those were truly horrendous! If I had to put up with one of those, I’d Jerry-rig a better grip with some cloth scraps and tape in the field and maybe later carve some wooden scales and bolt them together through the hole in the “grip”.
Oh yah
still looks more comfortable than CA compliant grips
Honestly I’d jerry rig a pistol grip to fit in that gaping stock
French pilots in the Desert Storm: we have the oldest rifle in the Coalition Forces!
American tank crews with M3 Grease guns: hold my beer...
It just werks tm
These are older than Grease Guns.
@@Libelnon my guess is survival rifles were picked up among the most up to date ones, it would make sense not to choose the most obselete pre WWII ones. So grease guns were older.
Ma Deuce clears her throat...
@@TheRealColBosch About 5 years ago an workers at Anniston Army Depot received a M2 to upgrade. The serial number is the best part. the serial number is 324. Yes, you read that write number 324.
That sling winder is a delightful and genius little detail.... love these videos!
The more I see the MAS 36, the more I want one. Handy size, good sights, onboard pokey .
I love that they cut 5 inches off the barrel, removed the stock completely to replace it with what must be the most uncomfortable hand hold and cheeck weld, made it hollow and still didn't lose any weight!
I'm dying to see you make a video of the Swiss Vetterli rifle. An 1860-80's era 12 shot bolt action repeater that loads like a Winchester.
He mentioned Swiss in video about first Winchester as they did not wanted the rifle but took the patent.
This was the first forgotten weapons video that I ever saw. And I must say, I haven’t regretted it since.
I saw this on his wall for a video a while back and I had to scour the internet to find out what it was. When I found it’s name on Reddit, Ian mentioned that he had one. When I looked up the model, it brought me right back here. I have diverse interests in a lot of subjects but this might be my favorite channel based on how often I watch and how many I’ve seen and how long I can watch in a single sitting.
I could have sworn Ian had done this rifle before?
At any rate, I believe this is the most French firearm ever made.
I don't remember Ian covering this one, but there are a bunch of French designs which are just as weird as this, so maybe that's why it feels familiar?
He done the MAS-36 in a video a few years back. Just not this paratroop version of it.
He did Mas 36 and Mas 40.
"At any rate" is a phrase I basically only hear Gun Jesus use.
New playlists = new easter egg videos
I feel like I'm part of a special club for seeing this before it actually published
How did you do it?
You technically are
Hello Ian.
Very good video.
The paras version of the Mas 36 and the PM MAT49 with retractable stock and its magazine folding system were effectively designed in relation to the use of the paras units.
And then in terms of shooting distance for the MAS 36 paras, the weapon was shorter at the level of the barrel but but a problem in view of the context of jungle in Indochina and in the djebels in Algeria, mountainous area with low vegetation but dense, the engagement distances for combat fire was therefore also shorter.
It seems to me that the classic MAS 36, so the non-folding butt in the paras was mainly used for shooting grenade launches, the FM24 / 29 in fire support, Before the AA52 is put into service.
Cordially.
🇫🇷⚓🇺🇲
Good points.
From what I have heard from the "anciens" the CR39 was quite popular.
I always liked the look and often asked about this rifle. I never heard any complaints.
I am really impressed by this huge french rifles collection
You are so cool dude! :) I love guns, especially old ones and how they were designed, and you take that love to the highest level! Thanks! I learn about the coolest weapons that I never knew existed because of you.
Most people would look at that stock and say "nice patina!"
Mark Novak would look at that stock and say "Do the maintenance!"
Very cool rifle with way more history and use than I thought. Great video overall.
I just got your 'French 75' shirt; Awesome, and my wife wants one before our next trip to France battlefields!--(but I want to go to Mt St Micheal's this time!
Last time I was this early the French were using rimmed ammo
@cody sonnet wait...did we start WW2? The Franco-Prussian war was starter by the French but.... not to be remenber ^^
cody sonnet agreed.
@cody sonnet Damnn that some French + British bashing if i ever heard some. Plus some anti-jewish claims....really ?
@@theobuzat9091 wow, when did the Jews come into this?
@@theobuzat9091 well I was with you about the French and British,amongst many others.........Jews though dude.. c'mon man
Push the book on every French rifle video? OF COURSE YOU WILL! You're so all over it, Ian! I mean it. Well done, sir.
As soon as he said that the stock was aluminum, I knew it had to be rather unpleasant to deal with. I'm surprised they didn't find some other alternative as soon as the war was over, but kept on making these.
Congrats on getting your book out! Looking forward to reading it. Great video also.
Hello,
i just want to thank you for your viedos.
I never know about this particular weapon, and i'm French, so thank you for your work, really apreeciate it.
Your work deserve our history, and i hope your book will be a succes!
Best regards from a French man.
Martin Windrow in his book 'The Last Valley' about the battle of Dien Bien Phu, says the rifle stocks were prone to breakage,to the extent that in 1950 French Paratroopers were jumping operationally in Indochina with 3 shot 8mm Berthiers.
How did they get ahold of those old things?
"Definitely a gunsmithing project" I think Ivanski Dragonov, who fixed the zero on your Krinkov might be the man for this job!
Pounding rivets isn't that hard... At least if you have an air hammer.
@@ScottKenny1978 doing it properly takes a bit of finesse
@@CAMSLAYER13 yeah, I'd need to practice a bit to remember how. It's been over 20 years since I last pounded rivets.
@@ScottKenny1978 ua-cam.com/video/8wZBjhpJFbQ/v-deo.html the craftsman in question
@@Fantareina ah, that guy.
Guns that fold are fascinating
I really have to get my hands on a MAS 36 one of those days, just the prettiest little bolt action.
The wind expose a good idea the less that you have to worry about something getting your way the less you have to worry about it malfunctioning
The single most French gun I have seen.
The one thing that could make it even more French is if the trigger was a corkscrew
Issued as a survival rifle in Desert Storm - when you absolutely need to hunt a cactus
Just when I thought I saw all the odd military weapons. Honestly, this is genius, looks brutal to shoot though. And people complain about the jungle carbine being a brutal to shoot.
I'm so sick of all corona virus videos so thank you gun Jesus Ian and as always greetings from sLOVEnia east europe
I (French) didn't knew this was existing! Thanks Ian!
🖖🏻🇫🇷🤪🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
once you land [paratrooper] or set up [mountain] you keep the rifle full length, & it would be interesting to see if the French troops ever adapted something as a cheek rest . GREAT REVIEW of this weapon!!!
"That sling winder is permanently built into the stock"
Nothing is permanent when it comes to the boundless idiocy of gun modders
Thats how we get cool new guns though, with gun modders tinkering with shit.
*saw French was the first word in the title* OH BOY!!!! another space saving gun that flips out and ends up being silly and badass at the same time XD
This is the coolest French thing I have ever seen
I have a MAS-36/51 and it's my pride and joy
SO HAPPY THE BOOK IS DONE! CONGRATZ!
These shameless plugs are amazing and warranted! Keep up the wonderful work
perfect one for this situation ! I will be happy to change my m70ab2 for this "sawed" one .
Thank you , Ian .
In 1978-1979, we worked quite extensively with French Airborne troops. They were still issued MAS 36 back then, the barrel was shorter but the stocks were in wood and not foldable ... Also the French had no significant airborne troops prior to to the beginning of WWII ...
Looks interesting and rare, but agree that... that aluminum stock would suck to shoot, hold or have the face gainist in many situations.
When I am able to I want to purchase your new book. Still haven't picked up the AK book that you and SGM Vickers worked on. Thanks for the videos and keep them coming!!!
From my reading, most French troops *hated* the MAS 36 generally and the CR 39 variant particularly. Troops in Indochina and Algeria complained that it was inaccurate, flimsy, and was prone to jams, and most preferred US equipment [M1 Garands and M1A1 Carbines] if at all possible.
And if there is any proof needed that France has a love-hate relationship with her soldiers, the design and fielding of French weaponry should put all doubts to rest. From the adoption of the Lebel all the way to the FAMAS, France has found a way bugger up most of the equipment she's sent her soldiers into combat with. The list is long and infamous: the Lebel Rifle [nothing like a tube-fed service rifle with a weak bayonet...], the Chauchat ['nuff said], the Ruby pistol, the Ste. Etienne MG... und so weiter [German used on purpose there].
How do I know all this? I have a friend that I served with in the way back who got out of the US Army and just couldn't adapt to civilian life again. So he sold everything, went on a bender, and joined the Foreign Legion. I swear to God it's true. This has led me to do a lot more reading on French military history than most people I'm aware of, especially the Twentieth Century.
Truth is french soldiers just looove to criticize their gear, wichever it is... it’s just a way of life rather than a real statement
@@karadocdevannes4687 EVERYBODY'S soldiers love to criticize their gear. 😁 It isn't just a French phenomenon.
But my opinion is more objective than that. There are real, legitimate complaints about French infantry weaponry when compared to their contemporaries because of the France's 'politics of procurement'. And I'm an American... we have more than one ugly procurement scandal in our history and that's a fact.
not agree with you on the French armament much criticized but have never used French weapons especially in France where the weapons are very regulated.
The lebel was indeed the least practical weapon of WW1 and the Chauchat not a great success. In 1914 we were not very good in individual armament. But all the weapons which followed were rather good. The defeat of 1940 stopped the manufacture of weapon which was very good like the MAS 40 and others which was still in experimentation. After the war we did not have any more the money to manufacture new weapons, and with the stocks of US weapon we had enough weapon for our army
My father had a MAS 39 CR during the Algerian War, he was very happy with it, reliable like all MAS 36, easy to maintain, practical for parachute jump and quite light. He preferred his Mas to Garand which is heavier and less practical to maintain especially in the mountains of Algeria. He liked usm1, but found that the ammunition was not powerful. The bolt action rifle was apparently not a problem in Algeria.
Ian "Today we are looking at a French...." Me (Hits LIKE immediately)
Finally found the perfect truck gun.
Here’s an idea, do a video on the arms used by the French in the classic film Day of the Jackal
Oh dear, two MAS 36's together in one video... hope the Good Idea Fairy doesn't pay a visit.
Congrats on the book release Ian
Not the biggest folding stock fan, but I still love it.
Retractable sling.
That is awesome.
A very informative video. Occasionally I see fakes for sale, sometimes unintentional. I remember a major importer selling the stocks, but I don't think it was Centrey. Probably before you were born. A lot of the MAS 36 rifles were converted by guys just playing around without the intention of fraud. However, once the CR is stamped on it, that is something else.
That's pretty freaking neat
Beautiful is and understatement! Wow!
Very neat contraption. Great video as usual. Will be getting your book soon.
Good to know you still can fingertrap two rifles with a bayonet, a feature you can't just take away from the soldiers
U.S. paratroopers of WWII jumped with M1 Garands, so it can be done with a regular rifle. It is less than ideal in some ways, but the very concept of airborne troops involves a lot of compromises. Even the U.S. airborne units had a lot more carbines and submachine guns than a "leg" infantry unit despite their preponderance of battle rifles. Speaking as a former paratrooper, generally smaller is better but then you have to balance the greater effectiveness of a purpose-built battle rifle versus a modified rifle. The French obviously went with "the same thing only shorter" while the U.S. went with the usual infantry rifle and the Germans went in a different direction entirely. Each decision has its merits and shortcomings.
I'll bet this thing was a beast to shoot. Hands down, the most uncomfortable rifle I've shot is a paratrooper G-3, owing largely to the horrifically-bad buttstock design. This design looks only marginally better.
If you want to see this rifle in action, get your hands on the old TV show The Wild Wild West, "The Night of the Legion of Death", Season 3 Disc 3. As an added bonus, this is the super rare GOLD version of the rifle.
I always wondered who the parents of the SU-16 were but I think we just found the father.
reminds me of the fabled kel-tec SRT folding bolt gun prototype from back in the grendel days
wow, I never even heard of that... now I can see it.. thx Ian :)
I bet French surplus military rifles are in great shape , hardly ever fired.
With a wood buttstock this would make a dandy carbine for mucking about the woods with.
Want to defeat Coronovirus? Stay at home, order Ian's book, sit back with a good whiskey and read it cover to cover. :)
Ian's book ... it's more than a fun encyclopedia, it's a public health service! :)
Now that's a neat folding stock. Though I would mount a side hinged front grip for the fingers by pure grip pressure (not ambidextrous though)
German paratroopers during WWII had another disadvantage the type of parachute they used was not steerable so they literally had to go with the flow of the wind wherever it happened to blow them. The US military and British military(and all Polish and French para)used steerable chutes in WWII.
They also jumped from so low that they needed chutes that opened fast enough to break bones if you weren't lucky. Basically, out the door, three swings under the chute, and there's the ground.
@@ScottKenny1978 probably why after the Invasion of Crete they never did another major Airborne operation and were utilized for the elite status. Of course the bigger factor with a paratrooper is they are expecting to be surrounded by the enemy so it's thier harder fighting mentally you're truly utilizing.
@@tristanholland6445 yep! All paratroopers are insane.
How many serial number locations do you want?
Yes.
Ze germans : vell vell, vat do ve have here?!
thats a fancy book cover
Can't help but think that a more elegant solution would be a 'wire' stock as used by the Sten/M1A1 et al.
Omg i never noted Ian didn't actually have accurate infos about the "french movie project". It was actually made by director Schoendoerffer with help from the Vietnam gov cause shot for parts in Vietnam as a reconciliation and historic memory tribute, the - excellent for me - Dien Bien Phu, about the fall of frenchies for their last battle there. These CR39 are recreation, made from demilitarized spare parts stocks, receivers and everything and surely genuine aluminum folding stock. But not barrels. As financial project, they were all made in 7mm-08 for resaling after the shoting to later finance the production. None of them were in 7,5x54 MAS aka French and their receivers were marked 7mm-08. 7,5mm MAS and 308W were forbidden in the time for civilians as military calibers. I think also there never was a CR39 90s recreation with a genuine collapsible sling system. I never saw one photo of them with it.
Still, incredible work from Ian
It always surprises me when Ian says something about how to spot a fake one. I am so not in the gun world that I neve ever think about faking a gun is a thing.
"Faking" any object of value is a thing. Handbags, collectibles of all kinds, medical supplies, money ...
That aluminum stock almost looks worm eaten. Given that it’s a casting I wonder how much of that surface texture came from the factory.
That kind of grain/pattern/coloration can happen with aluminum that has a lot of impurities in it or is alloyed in odd ways. As to the texture itself, I'd guess that the castings were not particularly well finished in the first place (beyond deburring), but aging of aluminum via exposure to air and other elements naturally eats away at the material, a process that's definitely made worse by the finish.
I really enjoy advertising in books. Is there anyway to get all your preferred advertisers to help with a low cost 2nd addition? Giving us not only the history of French rifles but also a window into the best of 2020 competitive equipment. There’s something special about 1color block print advertising.
Oooh! Real neato, if crude looking rifle. Now I have to go, and check how far French parachute troop development was at the time.
That sling winding system looks a lot like the winding system for the rolling shutter ribbons of many a window in our house…
Ian, any thoughts as to why the stock would not have been painted or anodised French military dark green? Not only would this have protected the aluminium but made the rifle less visible as well.
The sling winder reminds me of our German rolling window-blinds - same type of mechanism.
Shoot it shoot it!
Keltec eat your heart out
That looks a lot like a toy rifle played with as a kid in the late 70s lol
That stock reminds me of the keltec su16c
I can totally see where keltec got the design for the SU16CA