I have a AGM up front. Will I have to delete it? Just bought 6 of these in a group buy. Purchased the balancer and buss plates/bars. Currently running a XP3000 that I’ll need to remove.
Most will tell you that you have to do a delete because of the resting voltages between the 2 types. The AGM will rest at a lower voltage causing the lithium to drain. You could put an isolater between the alternator and the AGM so that when the vehicle is shut off it will isolate the AGM from the rest of your system. For the sake of the lifespan of your lithium it would be best to do a delete.
In regards to your response here and on a previous comment...after doing a front delete but using the vehicle as a daily with stock alt (for now). I'm currently charging at 14.1-14.3. How often would you recommend breaking theses down, checking voltage & balancing them out? Biweekly, monthly, or am I good for 2 months also?
You should do it as often as every couple months, 2 or 3, or a little as every 4 months. The hard part about battery maintenance is maintaining the cells, especially if you over tighten the nuts. Just because you can use them without a balancer doesn't mean you should. It is a bit of extra work and could be a hassle if you break one of the studs. Balancers have gotten much cheaper since the making of this video. Here's a link to one I personally bought after building my 80ah bank. ua-cam.com/video/D4NqUigNHsU/v-deo.html smile.amazon.com/dp/B07XFBSTLY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_HWTZRQWYBMJVWMW3TZT1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
@@russellburgan9023 thanks for the follow up info. I’ve since added a second bank (80ah) and put a balancer to it. Have serviced it 3 times. It’s doing great! I have my own videos showing the progress.
When you strap the cells together in series only the voltage changes. When you add banks together in parallel then the ah are added together. So that 2 banks of 6 40ah cells will become 80ah, yet remain 13.8v. Voltage in series, capacitance in parallel.
Hi Buddy will a CTEK Dc to DC charger , charge this type of set up? or would we still need a 6S Balance Board, these would be great to use on our camper trailer
It would charge them, tho I am not familiar with its features. The balance board isn't necessary to use with these cells, but because they are chemical batteries they will not all charge and discharge at the same rate. Having the balancer will regulate the charge and discharge for you. Without the balancer, you will need to perform battery maintenance by busting your pack down from time to time, depending on your usage, and equalizing them they way I have done in this video. This will ensure maximum capacity, and life of the cells.
I understand. The biggest lesson I've learned is to save a lil more, and get the quality components. Nothing worse than having some bump, and then it dying. Lol
my 6s bank I built from XS Power (yes they were built equalized) got out of balance. They did this within a 6 month time. My next built will have a balancer..
That is because you did not do any battery maintenance. The harder you use your bank, the more often you will need to do maintenance. Maintenance simply consists of breaking down your bank and equalizing them again. If you have a good variable charger, you can also charge each cell individually. Whichever you prefer, equalizing or charging will bring your cells back into balance. I'd recommend at least once every 2-3 months depending on your usage.
@@russellburgan9023 i believe that but not in my case. I built the pack for a vehicle that was under construction and set in the garage. I used it a few times to jump start a different vehicle and allowed it to recharge each time. I carried it to a RC play day for the boys to recharge their little batteries. In all cases the battery probably never went below 12.5 and topped around 13.8. For that pack i wired a harness that plugs into the lipo balance checkers used for lipo hobby batteries. That was 3 months ago. It has been good since. I believe it id very important for people to check for balance every few months regardless of use. Its possible I got a few weaker cells but I would mark them if it continues to happen. As you have said with maintenance, be aware..
Bro do you know if 14.4 volt being fully charged is a good voltage for a 13.2 LTO battery ? Because i have a lithium intellicharger and it keeps my battery in that voltage. There is any wrong or is OK?
14.4 is fine. These batteries do well up to 16v. They work much better in the 15v range. If you don't have a high output alternator, start saving up. If you've become a basshead, you're going to need the alternator anyway.
@@russellburgan9023 yeah i have to save up for a 15 volts alternator hehe. But i think that i wont have problems charging it with the charger after hitting hard 1 all day., what do you think? Thank you man
Hey bro one question, the ingellicharger XS Power 1208 works with LTO only or with LiFePo4 too? Because in the manual doesnt say anything about that. Thanks
It'll charge anything you connect it to. The differences in the batteries, AGM, LTO, LifePo4, and other chemistries are the resting voltage, and amperage output. AGM has lower output and resting voltage, lithium is higher. They're all made for a 12v system. Of course you can build a lithium battery for a higher voltage, but in a car we use 12v accessories. You can use your charger to charge any car, car audio, or marine battery that is made for a 12v system.
I bought them from XS Power. They were $59.99 a cell. I paid $360 for the whole bank, plus $32 for shipping. So my total cost for a bank of 6 was $392. There are other places to get them a little bit cheaper, but there is no guarantee that you are getting what you're paying for. Some distributors are selling used cells as new cells, and some are rewrapping 30ah, or 35ah cells as 40ah cells. With XS Power they come with a 4 year guarantee.
I understand your thought, but these are not rewrapped with a higher ah rating. Idk if you are familiar with XS Power, but these cells come with a 4 year guarantee.
These are chemical batteries, and it is impossible to get them to charge, rest, and decay at the same rate. This is the reason for the balancer. I suppose it is always possible to get something other than what you payed for no matter what you buy, but in this case not for that reason. Its just simple chemistry. This is the reason why we pay a little extra from a reputable distributor, that good feeling that we bought from a trusted source, and getting a guarantee.
I'm so sorry I'm only just now seeing this comment. There has been several comments that did not show up in my youtube studio app. If you build your bank with a balancer, and as long as you charge your bank before you install it, then you don't have to balance them. However, I would advise you to balance them before you assemble your bank.
Are you asking about a subwoofer, or an amplifier? I'm sure it's an amp, but I'm just not familiar with the name. An 80ah bank on a stock alternator will support at least 5-7k amp. With a high output, 250 amps and up, it will support 8-10k watts.
The Limitless Gorilla G10 battery is a lithium battery. You'll need at least a 200 amp alternator to charge that battery. If you're asking can you mix the 2 batteries to power your system, then yes you can.
You shouldn't have any problem. They'll both charge up to the same voltage. I'm not positive about the resting voltage of the Limitless. It could be just a bit lower than the LTO. If it is, it won't drag your LTO down that much. It seems like they're very nearly the same tho.
Yes you can use it to start your car. You should do a battery delete to use lithium in your car. It is not good for your cells to mix with different chemistries. Lithium has a much higher resting rate than AGM or lead acid. When you shut your car off, your lead acid battery will drain your lithium cells as batteries naturally want to equalize to the same resting voltage. It will certainly decrease the life of your cells. You could use a battery isolator solenoid to try and isolate the batteries while the engine is shut off, but they will still be connected while it is running. If you hook your stereo up independently of the car's electrical system, and have a second alternator charging your stereo, you wouldn't need to delete your car's battery.
For 20,000 watts you will need 4 banks of 6 cells totaling 24 cells. That is 160ah. If you plan on doing a lot of demos at shows, you might consider 1 extra bank just for capacitance.
The biggest difference between these cells and regular yinglong cells are these cells are grade A the yinglong sells you get from China are a grade b and recycled the quality is much higher with xs power"rebranded ying Long
You can. You can use nearly any charger to charge the bank. Low amperage is best, but doesn't have to be. The type of charger you use will determine the voltage it charges to. I think the Noco will charge up to 13.8v but don't quote me on it. I have an AGM charger that charges up to 14v. Biggest worry is if the charger can detect when the bank is charged and then switch over to maintenance. The Noco does that.
You can. It would be better to charge it with the balancer, but you don't have to. Having a .1v difference in voltage is normal. Battery meters don't measure in thousandths, so they round up, or down. Now if you had more than. 2v difference, you might have a problem.
Put your bank together, and charge them just like any other 12v battery. You can charge them individually if you have a charger that charges at 2-3 volts. I recommend charging them together.
Russell Burgan will they all charge to nominal voltage as a bank after equalized? Or do you recommend charging each cell to 2.3V then equalize, then assemble bank? What type of battery charger Can I use? I have a slow trickle low amp battery charger for lead acid/ AGM?
The nominal voltage of your charger should work fine. You want to put at least that much charge, 12-14v on a bank before installation so it doesn't kill your alternator. The trickle charger will work fine. My charger has an AGM switch, but I used regular setting.
Im so sorry I'm only now seeing this comment. Theres been a lot of comments that hasn't shown up in my youtube studio app. Yes a power supply will work so long as it operates within the voltage range of your cells, whether individual cells or your bank.
To build a 72v bank you will need 32 cells. These cells are 40ah, so that will be your ah rating. They make these cells in lower ah rating, down to 30 if I'm not mistaken. The ah rating is just a capacitance rating. Having a higher ah rating than what you may need will not hurt.
My guess is you are buying from an American company with a 4 year guarantee. I have heard many horror stories from ppl who have done group buys from China and did not receive what they have paid for. Many have stated they received old cells, lower ah cells with a new wrap on it, or cells marked 40ah, but are really 30ah. This is the reason I decided to purchase from XS Power rather than a Chinese company. A few more dollars made me feel much better about my purchase. Perhaps in the future there will be better distribution by more reputable companies, but for now XS Power is the best to purchase from for the above stated reasons.
I paid 360 for my first 6, and 300 for my second six. I got the second bank at the DB finals in Louisville 2019 tho. The advantage in buying the XS Power wrapped cells is knowing you're getting grade A cells, and the guarantee of course. I'm getting 2 more banks to go with these pretty soon.
I bought it straight off the XS Power DIY page. diycentralshop.com/ Of course this was back when they first started carrying them. The price has increased some since then, and will continue to increase as the demand grows. However, when the graphite technology becomes more widely available, I'm sure lithium tech will decrease in price. They're making large strides in battery tech.
I have a AGM up front. Will I have to delete it? Just bought 6 of these in a group buy. Purchased the balancer and buss plates/bars. Currently running a XP3000 that I’ll need to remove.
Most will tell you that you have to do a delete because of the resting voltages between the 2 types. The AGM will rest at a lower voltage causing the lithium to drain. You could put an isolater between the alternator and the AGM so that when the vehicle is shut off it will isolate the AGM from the rest of your system. For the sake of the lifespan of your lithium it would be best to do a delete.
In regards to your response here and on a previous comment...after doing a front delete but using the vehicle as a daily with stock alt (for now). I'm currently charging at 14.1-14.3. How often would you recommend breaking theses down, checking voltage & balancing them out? Biweekly, monthly, or am I good for 2 months also?
You should do it as often as every couple months, 2 or 3, or a little as every 4 months. The hard part about battery maintenance is maintaining the cells, especially if you over tighten the nuts. Just because you can use them without a balancer doesn't mean you should. It is a bit of extra work and could be a hassle if you break one of the studs. Balancers have gotten much cheaper since the making of this video. Here's a link to one I personally bought after building my 80ah bank. ua-cam.com/video/D4NqUigNHsU/v-deo.html
smile.amazon.com/dp/B07XFBSTLY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_HWTZRQWYBMJVWMW3TZT1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
@@russellburgan9023 thanks for the follow up info. I’ve since added a second bank (80ah) and put a balancer to it. Have serviced it 3 times. It’s doing great! I have my own videos showing the progress.
Share the link, and I will check it out!
Good job teaching it DIY William says let the batteries rest 24 hour to balance all the batteries !
You said those cells are 40 amp hour and you were building a 40 amp hour battery. So do the amp hours not add together?
When you strap the cells together in series only the voltage changes. When you add banks together in parallel then the ah are added together. So that 2 banks of 6 40ah cells will become 80ah, yet remain 13.8v. Voltage in series, capacitance in parallel.
Hi Buddy will a CTEK Dc to DC charger , charge this type of set up? or would we still need a 6S Balance Board, these would be great to use on our camper trailer
It would charge them, tho I am not familiar with its features. The balance board isn't necessary to use with these cells, but because they are chemical batteries they will not all charge and discharge at the same rate. Having the balancer will regulate the charge and discharge for you. Without the balancer, you will need to perform battery maintenance by busting your pack down from time to time, depending on your usage, and equalizing them they way I have done in this video. This will ensure maximum capacity, and life of the cells.
Awesome video, thank you very much. I got around 7K into my system so far and i'm trying to skimp on the batteries lol.
I understand. The biggest lesson I've learned is to save a lil more, and get the quality components. Nothing worse than having some bump, and then it dying. Lol
Can I use an 8s balancer and only use 6 wires (plus ground)? I am having a hard time finding a 6s balancer
Yes you can. I have a 12s balancer for a 6s bank.
cool sir i been looking at some LTO,S
my 6s bank I built from XS Power (yes they were built equalized) got out of balance. They did this within a 6 month time. My next built will have a balancer..
That is because you did not do any battery maintenance. The harder you use your bank, the more often you will need to do maintenance. Maintenance simply consists of breaking down your bank and equalizing them again. If you have a good variable charger, you can also charge each cell individually. Whichever you prefer, equalizing or charging will bring your cells back into balance. I'd recommend at least once every 2-3 months depending on your usage.
@@russellburgan9023 i believe that but not in my case. I built the pack for a vehicle that was under construction and set in the garage. I used it a few times to jump start a different vehicle and allowed it to recharge each time. I carried it to a RC play day for the boys to recharge their little batteries. In all cases the battery probably never went below 12.5 and topped around 13.8. For that pack i wired a harness that plugs into the lipo balance checkers used for lipo hobby batteries. That was 3 months ago. It has been good since. I believe it id very important for people to check for balance every few months regardless of use. Its possible I got a few weaker cells but I would mark them if it continues to happen. As you have said with maintenance, be aware..
Bro do you know if 14.4 volt being fully charged is a good voltage for a 13.2 LTO battery ? Because i have a lithium intellicharger and it keeps my battery in that voltage. There is any wrong or is OK?
14.4 is fine. These batteries do well up to 16v. They work much better in the 15v range. If you don't have a high output alternator, start saving up. If you've become a basshead, you're going to need the alternator anyway.
@@russellburgan9023 yeah i have to save up for a 15 volts alternator hehe. But i think that i wont have problems charging it with the charger after hitting hard 1 all day., what do you think? Thank you man
You should be good 👍
Hey bro one question, the ingellicharger XS Power 1208 works with LTO only or with LiFePo4 too? Because in the manual doesnt say anything about that. Thanks
It'll charge anything you connect it to. The differences in the batteries, AGM, LTO, LifePo4, and other chemistries are the resting voltage, and amperage output. AGM has lower output and resting voltage, lithium is higher. They're all made for a 12v system. Of course you can build a lithium battery for a higher voltage, but in a car we use 12v accessories. You can use your charger to charge any car, car audio, or marine battery that is made for a 12v system.
what is the price of 6 cell and brought from?
I bought them from XS Power. They were $59.99 a cell. I paid $360 for the whole bank, plus $32 for shipping. So my total cost for a bank of 6 was $392. There are other places to get them a little bit cheaper, but there is no guarantee that you are getting what you're paying for. Some distributors are selling used cells as new cells, and some are rewrapping 30ah, or 35ah cells as 40ah cells. With XS Power they come with a 4 year guarantee.
I can't find where to order a bank of these cells ?
diycentralshop.com/product/40ah-lithium-cell/
have you tried to take of the sticker? To see what is written under it?
They are Yinlong cells with an XS Power wrap on them. Nothing more, nothing less.
Russell Burgan it is clear nut maybe different number of capacity will show
I understand your thought, but these are not rewrapped with a higher ah rating. Idk if you are familiar with XS Power, but these cells come with a 4 year guarantee.
Great video
They didn't even bother balancing the cells before they shipped them? Hmmm... Sounds like they are used LTO cells
These are chemical batteries, and it is impossible to get them to charge, rest, and decay at the same rate. This is the reason for the balancer. I suppose it is always possible to get something other than what you payed for no matter what you buy, but in this case not for that reason. Its just simple chemistry. This is the reason why we pay a little extra from a reputable distributor, that good feeling that we bought from a trusted source, and getting a guarantee.
Is it necessary to manually balance the cells before assembly if you will install a bapancer with the cells?
I'm so sorry I'm only just now seeing this comment. There has been several comments that did not show up in my youtube studio app. If you build your bank with a balancer, and as long as you charge your bank before you install it, then you don't have to balance them. However, I would advise you to balance them before you assemble your bank.
how many AH for a 3000w system??
40ah will be sufficient. That will be enough to cover around 5k watts.
I really like this video.
Where do i get those xs power lto cells?
diycentralshop.com/product-category/lithium/lithium-cells/
can a G10 be power up with a 80ah bank of ying long ?
Are you asking about a subwoofer, or an amplifier? I'm sure it's an amp, but I'm just not familiar with the name. An 80ah bank on a stock alternator will support at least 5-7k amp. With a high output, 250 amps and up, it will support 8-10k watts.
@@russellburgan9023 no am talking about limitless Gorilla G10 can it be powered with a 80ah yinglong bank ??
The Limitless Gorilla G10 battery is a lithium battery. You'll need at least a 200 amp alternator to charge that battery. If you're asking can you mix the 2 batteries to power your system, then yes you can.
@@russellburgan9023 yes I want mix the 2
You shouldn't have any problem. They'll both charge up to the same voltage. I'm not positive about the resting voltage of the Limitless. It could be just a bit lower than the LTO. If it is, it won't drag your LTO down that much. It seems like they're very nearly the same tho.
Where do you order these
diycentralshop.com/product/40ah-lithium-cell/
Can this act as a car battery?
Yes you can use it to start your car. You should do a battery delete to use lithium in your car. It is not good for your cells to mix with different chemistries. Lithium has a much higher resting rate than AGM or lead acid. When you shut your car off, your lead acid battery will drain your lithium cells as batteries naturally want to equalize to the same resting voltage. It will certainly decrease the life of your cells. You could use a battery isolator solenoid to try and isolate the batteries while the engine is shut off, but they will still be connected while it is running. If you hook your stereo up independently of the car's electrical system, and have a second alternator charging your stereo, you wouldn't need to delete your car's battery.
Hi how many of these do I need to support 20000wrms car audio
For 20,000 watts you will need 4 banks of 6 cells totaling 24 cells. That is 160ah. If you plan on doing a lot of demos at shows, you might consider 1 extra bank just for capacitance.
@@russellburgan9023 thanks very much
The biggest difference between these cells and regular yinglong cells are these cells are grade A the yinglong sells you get from China are a grade b and recycled the quality is much higher with xs power"rebranded ying Long
You dont know much and it shows lol
These cells are original yinlong’s just rewrapped
how cost per piece?
$59.99 diycentralshop.com/product/40ah-lithium-cell/
Very good video
Good explanation
Can I use a noco genius 5 to charge it?
You can. You can use nearly any charger to charge the bank. Low amperage is best, but doesn't have to be. The type of charger you use will determine the voltage it charges to. I think the Noco will charge up to 13.8v but don't quote me on it. I have an AGM charger that charges up to 14v. Biggest worry is if the charger can detect when the bank is charged and then switch over to maintenance. The Noco does that.
@@russellburgan9023 should I charge it with the BMS connected? Sorry I'm new to this, all cells read 2.2v but 1 cell reads 2.1v
You can. It would be better to charge it with the balancer, but you don't have to. Having a .1v difference in voltage is normal. Battery meters don't measure in thousandths, so they round up, or down. Now if you had more than. 2v difference, you might have a problem.
great 😀😉
Let's see your strap building video please!
I changed up my plan, but here is my video.
ua-cam.com/video/D4NqUigNHsU/v-deo.html
How can i charge this
Put your bank together, and charge them just like any other 12v battery. You can charge them individually if you have a charger that charges at 2-3 volts. I recommend charging them together.
Russell Burgan will they all charge to nominal voltage as a bank after equalized? Or do you recommend charging each cell to 2.3V then equalize, then assemble bank?
What type of battery charger Can I use? I have a slow trickle low amp battery charger for lead acid/ AGM?
The nominal voltage of your charger should work fine. You want to put at least that much charge, 12-14v on a bank before installation so it doesn't kill your alternator. The trickle charger will work fine. My charger has an AGM switch, but I used regular setting.
@@russellburgan9023 can i use a power supply ?
Im so sorry I'm only now seeing this comment. Theres been a lot of comments that hasn't shown up in my youtube studio app. Yes a power supply will work so long as it operates within the voltage range of your cells, whether individual cells or your bank.
72v 18ah how much cell using
To build a 72v bank you will need 32 cells. These cells are 40ah, so that will be your ah rating. They make these cells in lower ah rating, down to 30 if I'm not mistaken. The ah rating is just a capacitance rating. Having a higher ah rating than what you may need will not hurt.
Great video, but please get a small tripod for your camera. I had to take some Dramamine just to watch!
Gute LTO zellen wäre was für mich 😊
240 amp 12v battery NICE!!
and copper wire!!
40 amp dont u mean
But is the same thing just a sticker over it
Yes, these are Yinlong cells with a XS Power shrink wrap on them. These cells are 2.3v 40ah.
@@russellburgan9023 but if it's only a sticker why sell it for more
My guess is you are buying from an American company with a 4 year guarantee. I have heard many horror stories from ppl who have done group buys from China and did not receive what they have paid for. Many have stated they received old cells, lower ah cells with a new wrap on it, or cells marked 40ah, but are really 30ah. This is the reason I decided to purchase from XS Power rather than a Chinese company. A few more dollars made me feel much better about my purchase. Perhaps in the future there will be better distribution by more reputable companies, but for now XS Power is the best to purchase from for the above stated reasons.
@@russellburgan9023 so true bro
I can't find them on xs site how do you purchase them?
1 call now many price?
Dude thats literally a xspower sticker on top of the Chinese yinlong cell. Lol 125per cell not 300 bucks for 6.
I paid 360 for my first 6, and 300 for my second six. I got the second bank at the DB finals in Louisville 2019 tho. The advantage in buying the XS Power wrapped cells is knowing you're getting grade A cells, and the guarantee of course. I'm getting 2 more banks to go with these pretty soon.
@@russellburgan9023 Where did you get a bank for 360 id love to know.
I bought it straight off the XS Power DIY page.
diycentralshop.com/
Of course this was back when they first started carrying them. The price has increased some since then, and will continue to increase as the demand grows. However, when the graphite technology becomes more widely available, I'm sure lithium tech will decrease in price. They're making large strides in battery tech.
there is Chinese writing all over your batteries ha ha you have been fooled
He literally said they're from China
Yinlong is Chinese
Yep.
Yghg