Almost every single terrain-builder video out there: You want your terrain to look good, but not to outshine your minis because they´re the stars of the show...
I've got a terrain piece from some Age of Sigmar line on my desk. It's rather simple made. It's just three colors. The walls are a bluish grey, the wood is brown, and the metal is black. Took me no time really to paint up. When I look at that 40k terrain I just get sad, because there's too much detail that can't just be drybrushed or slapped some contrast on.
🤔 Pretty sure there's a scene in The Inferno where Dante walks past souls damned to paint GW terrain to Golden Demon standards for all eternity without using airbrushes, washes, or contrast paints and most are still working on their first piece. I'm with you on the separate detail sprues! They make plenty of fiddly bits for the minis so why not terrain too? Great idea!
Sold my GSC army because it was too detailed to paint. Got Drukhari which look like they have a ton of detail but it’s mostly tricks the sculptors have used to make it look that way without making them suck to paint. They have been a very enjoyable army to paint.
Despite their very spiky look they do take edge highlights easily and well by just running the brush along the side. I am picking up what you a putting down - Cal
Painting Battletech miniatures has been such a breath of fresh air. All you have to do is block in the primary and secondary colors of a mech, the cockpit glass, and all the metal details such as weapons, jump jets, and actuators.
I am looking towards battletech more and more. There is a point when painting another fur mantle, intricate hairdressing or layering a perfect skin on a half naked dwarven maiden only adds frustration. I want mah Timberwolf and Marauder, they have STRAIGHT lines! They have clearly distinct zones and panels! =)
I'm having a similar experience with the Legions Imperialis stuff. Yes it's fantastically detailed but at that scale I just need to pick out a few spots like you said. Except on the titans, because my fool self decided to do gold trim all the god damn everywhere. T_T
i play battletech and even the simplest color scheme looks fitting into the mechs. You can go with full green with one leg and one arm gray or white or yellow. Even one of the most popular color schemes is just red on the top and black on the legs. And you can take that same scheme and just change colors with black on the legs and light brown on the top etc,
So that’s the reason why I’m so fascinated by Oldhammer! Back then it’s more about “go build something fun” less “buy this official plastic spur”. And they have cardboard terrain!
That's not oldhammer, you young whippersnapper! Cardboard terrain?!?! You kids don't know you're born. In my day, back in t' crazy days of 1st and 2nd, if you wanted terrain you built it from scratch out of plastic bottles and bake bean tins. Hell, some of us even built our own VEHICLES because gw hadn't produced a model for it. Kids these days... 😂
@@peterclarke7240 I’m confused, I thought the second edition box set came with cardboard terrains? I know some old timers strictly consider only rogue trader as Oldhammer.
@@kail4997 WE DO NOT MENTION THE 2ND EDN CARDBOARD TERRAIN!!!!! It was comically flimsy and looked cartoonish. Most of us binned it and carried on building our own.
Definitely with you on keeping the details on a separate sprue. It solves so many issues with the terrain from ability to paint it, customization (so you don’t clearly see that this is the third iteration of wall 1A on the board), and hedging off the 3rd party retailers. Heck, GW could even sell the detail sprue as a stand alone kit. I really see no downside with this
You took the words right out of my mind. Customization is a great feature when you have so many wall pieces, really hate to have more then 2 that looks alike.
@@darklordofcaliban3551 Isnt this already happening with 3d printing? like all those guys ( maybe me included with my outdated grey knights i just got) hta need to kidbash their armies to make proper new versions of the marines. Or this made models ( that sometimes look really goofy, just saw one to grey knights that made me nearly puke) so that the terminators are as big as terminators and not smaller then the new marine models... but yeah scanning those terrains and reusing them is a thing I would do for a 100%, like I get to print ur won armies and not giving greedy gw ur money, but tbh i rather would pay for units then those highly inflated prices for terrain, like legit I could do sth nicer with sticks green stuff and some garbage.....
This is why I love old hand modeled minis, they don't feel like a 3D model from a videogame exported to real life, but like actual sculptures. There is less detail creep and more expression.
Part of the reason I'm still running Tacticals in modern 40k. They may be a statistically inferior unit, but they have SO MUCH MORE personality than the generic "cool guy from CoD" poses the Intercessors come in. That's another reason I loved Indomitus so much, it's like it was one last awesome breath before sinking into the monotony you see on display now. 40k doesn't feel like Dark Souls in space anymore. More like "Star wars but the lightsabers are chainsaws and Darth Vader is viewed from the Imperial Perspective. -Also an average dude."
i painted about 7,000 points of warhammer fantasy High Elves, and enjoyed most of it. The worst unit to paint was the Lothern Sea Guard, which were also one of the newest kits in the range and consequently much more detailed. It's sad that the newer, more detailed models are ironically less enjoyable to paint. Sometimes less is more- GW needs to get the memo on this!
I know the feeling, currently sitting on my Thousand Sons. Its the Gold-Trim of Dooooooom. But since they are a bit older, not much but a bit, they are still somewhat manageable. at least compared to some of the new Kill-Team sets.
Every year I paint 5-10 of my high elves and then just give up… And some of the sculpts are actually pretty terrible like the tiranoc chariot and the silver helms arent really that superior to their old metal counterparts…
@@bingobongo1615 What are you looking for in them? Because if you want more detailed minis Heroes Infinite by Raging Heroes have some great elf sculpts - Cal
The insane amount of unnecessary detail on GW minis could be one of the reasons why they are so bloody expensive. I prefer using the older models from the 90s and early 2000s. However, on the rare occasion when I buy a modernhammer miniature, I always remove details I deem unnecessary. For example, on a regular space marine I remove all the panel lines from the armour plates so that all the armour is a flat smooth surface. In the case of Abaddon I removed all the spikes and teeth from his armour, and some of the cabling that were under his arms. I also modified all of his chaos trim to look more like the classic chaos trim from the older chaos models.
My most miserable expirience is painting a 1k points Thousand Sons army, and painting 1k points of new Cadians. Tsons because of the god damn trim and Cadians because of detail creep. New Shock Troopers have so much little details, pouches, holsters and stuff. Previously when I painted a Cadian Shock Trooper it took me about 30 minutes to paint one to a tabletop standard. Now it takes me more than an hour. It was mentally draining.
I started kitbashing some Imperial Guard models for my own regiment, takign the bodies of some Warlord games Pike & Shotte european regiment and the weapons and arms from some leftover Astra Militarum sprues, and I feel like I probably ditched some of that excessive details. The new cadians also fit surprisingly well with the Warlord games minis, scale wise. I only need a little bit of greenstuff here and there for minor gaps. Can't wait to get onto painting these lads.
I take issue with people that regard other opinions as "small vocal minority". You are not the truth bearer and it comes across as condescending and self assured. And YOU are also very vocal. This is an opinion video, don't get so full of yourselves. And I say this as someone who agrees in this case.
The level of detail on GW's Space Marines crept up over the years. When they released the Primaris Marines many complained about how they were too plain. Lately, GW has been introducing larger upgrade kits. Now people will complain about the cost of the upgrade kits. I prefer having relatively plain line troops and more detailed characters. For my Gallowdark terrain, I am considering using a dimly lit approach using a black base, red drybrush and orange drybrush on the various sculpted light sources. My thinking is that only the barest minimum of emergency lighting remains. Limiting my color palette will speed up the work. I am looking for playable terrain that provides a good backdrop for my minis. Alternately I could go for green tones with yellow for the light sources for something resembling a night vision feel. With just two boxes of the walls plus the Soulshackle add-ons it will still be a big project due to having to mask all the connection points. I hope I bought enough masking tape.
looks interesting, and their are lots of 'versions' of this style of painting. I think one of the best I saw was paint brass drybrush steel which looks much more 'standard' than that scheme presented. Client requested it was done up like the bases we had been doing for them and thus why we had our scheme have a good one - Cal
If I’m honest I am happy with the printed cardboard terrain. Detail creep is frustrating on miniatures though. Painting the Bretonnian men at arms or Mantics halflings has been a true joy.
Well I think you may enjoy our next episode a lot... Its about our best Warhammer experience and uhhh let's just say we agree on a lot ☺ Or its out now for members... - Cal
The idea is good, the fundamentals are wrong, I don't think that tabletop quality is the definition you gave at all, also you took this job and understimated the work for doing model like quality, some people would be super happy to have a console all rusted and the same color as the walls and call it done
Detail is excellent for faster painting styles. Like oil washes and slapchop. This is why I prefer lots of detail; its easier to paint! Big flat areas are much harder to paint because you have to add in the detail, like streaks or moss or posters or similar.
I would even go further with another alternative: why not simple stickers for the detailed sections? Even faster and cheaper to produce and looking great from the distance of a tabletop setup.
My most miserable experience thus far has been painting my Celestian Sacresants. The goddammed GILDED TRIM on the gorget and backpack BROKE me. I finished a test model, and cannot bring myself to do another at the moment. I'm going to have to tackle them like characters from other armies; slow and steady. I did it to myself; I love the nuns with guns, but FFS the amount of detail on them is mind-breaking. Even the new Primaris marines are a breath of fresh air after that.
Oh yeah but don't worry you are wrong the detail levels are good apparently that's what people keep telling us... A few people... I totally feel what you are saying because I actually paint like you 😅 I totally feel you - Cal
Part of the reason I dislike Primaris marines. (apart from them being such an obviously corporate maneuver) Do I think the Indomitus Box set is the pinnacle of Marine design?- (Unless the suppressors showed up there, lol) -Yes, absolutely. Did I 3D print some truescale Firstborn models and immediately sigh in relief seeing so many flat, undecorated plates? Also, absolutely yes. It's just... as a 3-way Painter/modeller/gamer for multiple armies, it sucks to see a dude(ette) with a billion lil gadgets on his/her person because I'll be Doug Dimmadamned if I won't be tempted to paint- Every. Single. One. And this is on Troops(Battleline) units, mind you. Intercessors, with all these extra bits on their armor and dozens of overlapping plates. Yeah, it looks sweet when you do a good job, but... dang. being tempted and/or pushed to add HQ unit levels of detail to a guy that's gonna die within the first two turns, or advance twice and do nothing for the rest of the game is... I almost wanna say "insulting" ? HQ units or Elite units are fine having all the extra detail, bc they're typically centerpieces for an army anyway, but... yeah, hard agree. My biggest turnoff when it comes to painting is seeing a model with all these tedious little hoses and plates and vents and decorations... it's... It's like running an army of Sanguinary guard. I love the Bladeguard veterans, but they're the biggest offender in this regard. They look amazing when you paint them up fully, but that's gonna take a while. But if you paint them underwhelmingly, it shows SO BAD.
Yep, I had to quote high on some Blade Guard for a quote for doing a commission even for tabletop for that reason. Primarius Marines, nice no problem, them... different story - Cal
Im happily painting my old Fantasy / Old World Wood Elves right now. About 30% are minis from the 90s. And I love them! Are the pewter swords way too big? Unfortunatley yes. But The minis have a ton of charm and just the amount of detail I want. A lord or a mage can be blinged to the gills. But when you got to paint 30 ish regular troops? Then who honestly wants a ton of extra pouches, bottles, kniven etc? Esp in a game with ranks its just no real benefit
Honestly GW should make the return of the bitz catalog. For anyone who doesn't know at least until mid 2000s here in the USA you could go to your local GW and ask to order specific parts and usually very low cost. Personally I made nearly all conversions at that time and it would have been impossible for me to build my creations ootherwise. If GW expands the bits catalog to offer terrain parts AND bits from any product removed from shelves (while stock is available) it could be a really great thing for both the community and the company clearing out space on its shelves for new inventory. (If the bits catalog is still around please let me know!)
Well damn if I could have pre-painted terrain I'd get it even with 100% mark-up. I like to paint models and terrain, but I sure as hell postpone Gallowdark beacuse there is TOO MUCH detail for me. I feel like I'd have to paint for a long time just to get it done nicely, all the while I could paint my minis which I want to have painted so .... Dilemma is real haha
Another benefit to keeping those recesses on a separate sprue, it means the hobbyist gets to choose if there's windows or no windows in their terrain. Windows have been a contentious topic in the gaming section of the hobby before. It has to do with line of sight and if the windows which are purely for aesthetics on some terrain pieces also allow for LOS. Being able to plug those holes at will solves all that and simplifies what should be classified as obscuring terrain and what shouldn't. And like you said, it's not like GW didn't know how to do that because *that's pretty much how the doors work.*
As always thanks for your comments ShockArc! And yes I actually didn't even consider the point about Line of Sight you are totally right on that. Just today, we went to the Warhammer store and there was model of the month going on and we sat down with some people and constructed the latest Dark Angel terminator model and the conversation of not wanting to paint a model as detailed as that was initiated naturally by the others and I learned that apparently GW used to do this in the past, they used to keep details and options on a separate sprue and they just aren't doing this anymore for some reason... ~Sunny
You're telling me Gamers and Warhammer Fans can be super pedantic? no... say it isn't so, we wouldn't have read comments which lead us to believe such things ever... - Cal
I dislike most newer GW minis. 1. They have made all the minis in drama student getting a new profile pic poses. 2. They added so many details that cutting them off is the best customisation option. 3.they made multi part kits that create monopose minis, you get extra work because it takes up less shelf space or saves GW money or whatever - I don't want an airfix hobby.
Detail creep... Couldn't have said it better. Detail creep is why I hate some of the Patreon mini creators, like Mini Monster Mayhem and Archvillain Games. I mean, sure, the sculpts are awesome, but for printing and painting, they are ridiculously overkill.
I prefer pushing some of the detailing on seperate sprues (or seperately on the sprue) because of the way it opens options up as well as it probably being easier than adopting the whole new approach with the pretainting. I'm also unsure about gettign them prepainted, with chances being, that I'l lhave to paint over it anyway, to match it to my armies, or going for a specific style. As someone who's able to relatively quickly take a glance at gothic and baroque architectures, those doe have a lot of empty alcoves (at least today) and even without doing anything fancy with them painting wise, they would still look believable and good. Empty space can be a really good thing! Helps guide the eyes and not overload it with stuff. This Boarding actions terrain almost has the same effect as bullet hell games on ym eyes. wich is, not great x_x
With the modern computer designed multipart figures there are many spaces on the model where you cant even get a brush to in there, this wouldnt have happend in the hand sculpted days, as the sculpting tool as much the same shape as a brush. I find painting the old hand sculpted models far more enjoyable becouse i don't have to worry about painting in sub assemblies, or have really hard to reach areas and less fine detail over all.
I totally get this. I dont mind the detail on my more elite armies like marines, but on swarm/horde armies like Tyranids and genestealer cults its just exhausting and feels so pointless. Thats why i mostly used old guard models for my genestealer cults.
Some really detailed minis I thought I would love I end up hating. Because I for one am not skilled enough to maximize that detail. And secondly I got tired. Some of the simplest minis are my favorites.
Joke on you, there’s never enough skulls for my Khorne team. Joke aside, at first I thought details weren’t a big deal. But then when you talked about seperated sprues, I understood that they could be sold seperatly, and the base piece could be cheaper. It would lower the entry cost to the hobby (cash, time and skill) and yet let means for a minority to really go nut with details. Skulls for the skull throne !
This is why i prefer frostgrave, Oathmark, Stargrave and a few other minis, there's enougn details to signify what they're representing (weapons and armour and stuff) but there aren't rivets on armour or safety switches on guns. If we want that on a special character or something we'll paint it ourselves
I really think you should join as a member my dude because... you are going to love the next one and I think you may want to be in early for it 😉 - Cal
Pointless abundance of detail is part of Gothic architecture, so for me this is an important part of the (visual) lore of Warhammer. Guess I'm part of the minority. I absolutely am for your idea of add-on sprues, all your arguments are good. On the other hand I'd personally hate if there were no unpainted boxes available anymore. I'd have an inner blockage preventing me from painting something which already comes with colour.
I get what you are saying but even with the pointless abundance you still could have had that if you had the detail sprues sperate, but it would have been more of a choice and MUCH easier to paint - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow After that reply I'm not sure that you got what I'm saying. I said all your arguments on that matter are good and that I agree with your conclusion that putting intense detail on additional sprues/bits is a good idea.
The into the dark terrain set is not fun. I painted 1 box and had the exact same experience. After half of the pieces I just gave up on doing every little detail and the rest of the monitors and other skit I skipped. In the future I would like terrain pieces that are more simple to paint. Not neccecarly less detailed but just easier. Think of the ship design in Star Wars, like a star destroyer or the Death Star. They are covered with small details but all same colours. Would love to have the a into the dark terrain peice that was like that. Simple spray of base coat, wash + drybrush and it would look good.
Yeah I think for example the people we talked about Dungeons and Lazers the lazers part of their stuff is great fantastic! I really like it, does exactly what we are talking about - Cal
Don't put down your own standards its okay, plus doing 4 boxes is much worse so know that it could be worse... much worse. And now you feel better... right? Right? - Cal
Our group has been playing together for over 20 years. We built our custom-made campaign maps years ago. Our group is made up mostly retired IT people. There were 4 people in the original group, but we've grown to 14 over the years. Interestingly, most our new members were found by our kids, who've been playing with us since before they were teenagers. The demise of GW hit us hard, but it also gave us new hope because we've decided to go our own way. We will create our own lore, rule-sets, models, design our own armies, and print them on the 2 3D printers we purchased. While we decided we won't be playing shops or tournaments anymore, we'll continue to enjoy our hobby in the comfort of our own homes, on our custom-made campaign maps, where the Death Knights don't have to wear the new "GW sanctioned" pink and purple battle tutus. Best of all, we'll save a ton of money.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I get the gist of the video, but you know, there is no greater joy in table top gaming than watching your children and their children take an interest in something you've loved for years. There is no "negative energy" when your 8 year-old grand daughter is sitting on your lap telling you what move you should make.
I just use books, Legos and boxes for terrain, though. Ugly, unthematic and mismatched? absolutely. Functional? to some degree! Truest to 40k's old ways of "do the moronic fun stuff, throw ur scatter dice, DON'T YOU DARE PRE-MEASURE, and OH JOY MY TERMINATORS TELEPORTED OFF THE TABLE!" WFB's getting the old worlds treatment, Maybe they'll do the same for 40k. I mean if GW loves its money so much, why not reboot things from 2nd edition Onwards?
It must be happening because they don't do it by hand for a LONG time now. Once they made a 3D sculpt they probably just click a button and a CAD programm cuts it up automatically. Look closer at the sprues. It can be baffling how unfriendly to the consumer some of the builds are. Most times, not a single QA pass was made to account for ease of build, people who kitbash, people who magnetize. I convert and kitbash a lot (a lot) and I've been noticing it for a long time. They must have less than a dozen people working on all of it and their competence is uneven to say the least (Desolation Marines anyone?).
Yep... totally agree that's what we were talking about with the "Because we can thing" because you can isn't a good enough excuse. Products should be developed with the consumer in mind first and foremost - Cal
And then there are people like me. I believe sometimes less is more. Also sometimes the details on the mini doesn't fit the aesthetic that I'm going for, I'll end up chopping parts off just to add other parts. Hopefully with how games workshop released the Deathwing upgrade kit is a step in the right direction. Start with a blank Terminator and upgrade it to give the aesthetic as much or as little as one wants. This comes from someone that doesn't even play DA. Upgrade kits done in a similar way across the board would IMO be a welcomed idea. Win/win for big GW also as they get to sell the kits and not over produce entire model sets.
Know any cheap alternatives to the boarding action terrain? I want something that looks good but also isn't a pain to paint. I have neck problems and leaning over a table all day to paint details on miniatures is really actually painful.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow They don't. I need to figure out a solution. I might print out some or make cardboard place-holders. But yeah. The Sci-fi Starter set is door-less. Only open pass ways.
i like details, but you can't have them everywhere. star wars ships are a perfect example. some parts are still relatively smooth. this looks much too cluttered. I think that's why the 2nd edition space marine is so enjoyable to paint. arguably more than v3
On separate parts: it frustrates me enormously when GW don't split their models as potential sub-assemblies. It just makes everything harder. The worst example I came across recently was the special-edition Assassin on the Sister of Battle statue. THEY'RE BOTH ONE PIECE! WHY??????? *Everyone* will want to paint those two parts separately, then glue them together to make the finished piece. Every single person in the world. NO-ONE would WANT it to be one piece, unless they just weren't planning to paint it at all (in which case why did they get it, as it's not a gaming piece - and if it were, a separate Assassin would STILL be better). So WHY did GW make it one piece?????? I literally opened the box, looked at it, and said out loud "that's sociopathic". Absolutely mad decision... and they do this kind of thing all the time.
You guys should definitely get some experience painting MDF terrain. Their lack of detail and texture often times makes it slightly harder to paint. Guys "it's a you problem". Your suggestions would need way more work from GW which you just can't realisticly expect. You'll probably get either the same as now or just less detail in general. I'd prefer the level of detail. That being said: I absolutely don't understand what's forcing you to paint every single detail in the first place? leave some out...
I went hard on Chalnath, Fronteris Nachmund with an overgrown forest look, and started on Gallowdark and its accessories and totally got burnt out. Recently purchased a Battle Systems Galactic Core set and had so much fun putting it together. Breath of fresh air. Will get back to Gallowdark at some point, but it has so many parts and detail, it's gonna take ages.
I think part of the problem is that GW is always trying to get new people into the hobby, as well as appeal to those casual players and people who just buy the models for competitive play. This is just speculation, but I think those types of hobbyists outnumber the pure painter and diorama-ists, and even if they didn't, it's important to GW that the hobby doesn't create a higher barrier to entry than there already is. Warhammer is a notoriously expensive hobby, but GW was really smart teaching people in store the base --> drybrush --> wash technique, because then beginners can walk into the store and walk away with a decent looking mini. And now you have contrast paints that take that 3 step process and simple it down even further into 1 and a half steps. But my point is that additional sculpture detail helps that large demographic who are not that great at painting (and often aren't trying to be that good at painting). Compare a 90s model done with contrast paint to a modern one, and I think you'll see that with no extra technique the end consumer would feel like they made something more amazing because the details do some heavy lifting. So long story short, more details make simple paint jobs look fancier, and that helps attract new players and retain a large chunk who, while not that interested in painting, still want their minis to look decent.
I like your idea of having the inner panes as seperate sprues. I would actually do the inner parts, but I only buy so much terrain and keep using it over and over. With armies you are always buying more minis so I like less detail in those.
Detail creep is real. I rarely play these days so my hobby is 90% painting and the few GW kits I’ve painted the last few years have been a ton of work when compared to similar kits from mantic or tt combat. I’ve enjoyed them least because honestly the extra detail constrains the painter, it doesn’t actually help in my view.
I used to be big into 40k. I'm a converter. Started with orks and was moving into admech. Wow, it was a staggering amount of detail. Never finished painting the army and I only paint to "table top" level
I don't think the "I pay for that!" argument fares well: we pay for quality, and sometimes quality is not about the quantity of stuff on the miniature. I agree with all your points except the prepainted sets.
i mean... doing a commission, where the price never really reflects the effort or hours put in, of course is going to be a shitty experience. people fall into the trap of thinking a big commission is better or means discount. I've found over the years. more work. i balloon the price to almost "fuck you" lvl because I know I don't want to do those jobs. Or i stipulate a min 6 month lead time. because... yeah, fuck you Terrain having detail isn't an issue. it's printing 300 bits of it, in a short period of time when it feel like a job is the issue.
I would possibly get into the game part kf wh40k except the game peices are too expensive and then i need to paint them whicj is even more time and equipment . One of the things that really appealed to me about games like d&d isnthat i can drop $60 for a rule book and then be off to the races.the dice are easy enough to get and while additional materials would be helpful they are not essential
I really enjoy painting kill teams. That’s me. I like the amount of detail in them and the fact I can focus on 8 or 10 units at a time, which takes me weeks. I’m glad I have friends who do terrain tho… that seems like a chore
I feel that painting is tedious, but at the same time, I feel really great when I do a good job on a model or terrain piece and look back on the finished product. The enjoyment doesn't come from the moment to moment painting as much as from enjoying the result and the pride that "I did that."
30 years ago half of that would be printed card, fast cheap an easy. Look at the old gorkamorka terrain, its plastic an card, paint a bit of plastic then tab A to B an glue.
I think it easier to do it yourself and make it the way people do it in real life: automate. Like everything consists of standardized pieces we can recreate in a factory fashion.
yeah I have been feeling that gw's terrain is getting too detailed to be a good backdrop for the miniatures that are meant to be standing in front of them. i get that they are putting extra detail in to distract us from how expensive it is but it doesn't change how over detailed a lot of it can be. I don't mind some detail but if it's over detailed it makes painting them a pain in the brush hand
10:56 There is a person adjacent to my local gaming community. He absolutely lambasted the new SM terminator chaplain. Hated it. Vocally, for *days*. Why? "It's not 40k! It's not warhammer! It's not detailed enough!" No amount of calm explaining got through that "if you want more detail, you can always put 50 more purity seals or skulls on him" but cutting them off is much more difficult. There are two additional twists to the story. Said lad, is a metagamer. Plays only what's the strongest and will berate you if you bring a "fun" list to a tournament with him. And that's why, he doesn't really paint much himself. Second... he plays aos. He doesn't play 40k, doesn't read the lore, hates space marines in particular and openly states that he joined 40k chatgroup to create discontent (later saying that we're toxic). Extra joke: he started playing TOW (competitive, of course) because of "my nostalgia" and "they're good looking because they're simple and less detailed". Simultaneously, he states that "gw is the best because the detailed sculpt, they have the most detailed sculpts!" And, naturally, fingers in ears when you point out to the contrary. Oh well.
I really like your idea about greebly sprues. That would give both camps what they want, and open up for somem really interesting conversions too! The greeblys could be sold separately, thus making the standard box cheaper but still have the potential to increase sales when people buy greeblys for their other projects too!
having the terrain in a starter set be pre painted by automated process and not just have the be a printed cardboard tile or printed paper mat would be a great thing for beginners as it would reduce potential mental barriers to play while also subtly incouraging new players to paint their minis and thus probably buy paints off gw along with a few more miniatures
I find it hard to agree with the complaint about getting higher detail models. It is basicly the only thing GW still has going for them. Painting is 90% of the hobby for most people , and getting more to paint is from my point of view getting more value for money. Disregarding people who disagree with you as a 'vocal and sometimes vulgar minority' is a bit unnecessary and also just not true. Ask any GW store owner and they'll tell you it is much more common for people to paint and not play warhammer, then vice versa. People who like painting are the vast majority. Your proposed solution makes sense tho, but I fear it would just invite GW to milk their costumers more by selling detail sprues seperately.
If you saw the chats we had to remove, I don't think you would say the same also most people like the very popular short. If someone is a minority opinion and they can't make points without being that way... Well I am sorry it's an apt descriptor - Cal
Yeah, I feel you. I painted 1k Sororitas as a gift for a friend and the amount of detail on every single mini killed a portion of my soul the further in I got. I never want to touch Sororitas again, and that’s a shame because I think some of their stuff is SUPER cool. I also bounced off the ITD terrain hard. I did one full wall to tabletop standard, realized it took me a week for that one wall, and did a gradient airbrush plus oil wash and drybrush to finish. Job’s a good’un.
This was surprisingly thoughtful and I agreed and disagreed with various parts but wow! Did you open my eyes to some of the problems that people in our hobby face. Thank you!
If you want details to be provided on a separate sprue, you're going to push up the cost. Having an entire separate sprue doubles the amount of machining of steel for the molds, thus doubling that aspect of cost in the production process. It's entirely do-able, but would see a big price jump as a consequence
Hi I'm making minies myself right now (or trying to) and this is something that I want to ask from people who are on a higher level when it comes to painting (I'm not bad ether but not this good). At what point should I stop with detailing? I'm starting to get a hang of it but I still would aprichiate some help with it, to avoid this exact situation.
I think it is a case of making sure you have the painter in mind. So for example, if you have raised areas make sure that they could be easily struck by a paintbrush. So often when it comes to 3D-printed minis (which I believe you are referring to) make sure that the recesses are deeper than you think necessary and that the raised areas are raised higher than you think. I would say if you have items that over other items this is where you start getting too much detail. So for example the Primaris Leftiant has a sash that goes over a grenade and belt... this is where it is becoming too much. But do what sells models for you. A lot of people just buy sculpts they don't paint, so do what makes you money. We don't want to give advice that would make you worse off - Cal
I love the idea of additional details bruise instead of The current one size fits all approach. They definitely should already be doing that for the price they are charging; especially considering it's what they used to do!
Yep I love the old marine style packs, I actually really like the style of the Primarus marines but I just wish they did them like the old school marines, head, torso, legs, arms. 100% with you - Cal
Counting at odd number 365 from two boxes is mathematically impossible unless there we're missing pieces or a piece added or you somehow cut something in half.
I used to love painting, and I loved doing all the little details, but the problem is as you mentioned, repetitiveness. Extreme details are great.... on a one off mini. But once you've done your tenth, twentieth or even fiftieth piece of the same detail it all blends together. I used to play Orks, because to me, Orks were the best when it came to allowing people to do what they want with their vehicles and paint however you like, however, even Orks became really samey, and when I eventually gave up, there wasn't that many options out there for custom or 3D printed pieces, and what options there were, were often very expensive.
I am picking up what you're putting down. It's frustrating as we are trying to say hey this an issue and often we are faced with don't complain 😔 - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Absolutely! Personally, I have held a similar opinion to you guys in this video with the greebles. All of that should be separate to allow for differences and customisation, but also for you to be able to control the level of detail you want to include. A flat wall can look just as good, if not in some cases better if someone wants to make it so. I think back to the Space Wolves sets from 3ED and how you would basically get a Space Marine box set, with a couple of Space Wolf conversion sprues. You could make the team however it suits you. While the level of detail has improved, we are also seeing so many more static pose sets. Customisation, which was always the best thing from me, has become the price paid for higher detail.
I have all this painting supplies to try and make my life easier, but at the end of the day I still hate it. Painting is a chore. As someone who just wants a good enough looking model to play the game, the hobby aspect always feels like a massive barrier to get to the fun part.
And we totally get what you are saying! Not everyone is looking to do the painting and converting side of the hobby and folks like yourself should be considered too when Designing models ~Sunny
Terrain is some of the least enjoyable things to paint. I have several times in the past bought pre-painted terrain, and maybe added a few finishing touches. I like the prisma cast idea, and hope to see it expanded onto wargaming terrain too.
Almost every single terrain-builder video out there: You want your terrain to look good, but not to outshine your minis because they´re the stars of the show...
Can you tell Games-Workshop? - Cal
I've got a terrain piece from some Age of Sigmar line on my desk. It's rather simple made. It's just three colors. The walls are a bluish grey, the wood is brown, and the metal is black. Took me no time really to paint up.
When I look at that 40k terrain I just get sad, because there's too much detail that can't just be drybrushed or slapped some contrast on.
🤔 Pretty sure there's a scene in The Inferno where Dante walks past souls damned to paint GW terrain to Golden Demon standards for all eternity without using airbrushes, washes, or contrast paints and most are still working on their first piece.
I'm with you on the separate detail sprues! They make plenty of fiddly bits for the minis so why not terrain too? Great idea!
Yeah I think separate sprues so you can reach everything and so you can use it different projects is the way to go - Cal
Sold my GSC army because it was too detailed to paint. Got Drukhari which look like they have a ton of detail but it’s mostly tricks the sculptors have used to make it look that way without making them suck to paint. They have been a very enjoyable army to paint.
Despite their very spiky look they do take edge highlights easily and well by just running the brush along the side. I am picking up what you a putting down - Cal
I'd bloody love if GW did this. They could even sell the greebles sprue separately and it'd sell like hot cakes.
I'd love if GW did a lot of things but unless we can get something like this viral I don't think it's happening - Cal
P.S. A man can hope...
they already sell a bunch of upgrade sprues, so it's definitely up their alley too.
@@PrimordialNightmare Should be yeah - Cal
Painting Battletech miniatures has been such a breath of fresh air. All you have to do is block in the primary and secondary colors of a mech, the cockpit glass, and all the metal details such as weapons, jump jets, and actuators.
I am looking towards battletech more and more. There is a point when painting another fur mantle, intricate hairdressing or layering a perfect skin on a half naked dwarven maiden only adds frustration. I want mah Timberwolf and Marauder, they have STRAIGHT lines! They have clearly distinct zones and panels! =)
I'm having a similar experience with the Legions Imperialis stuff. Yes it's fantastically detailed but at that scale I just need to pick out a few spots like you said.
Except on the titans, because my fool self decided to do gold trim all the god damn everywhere. T_T
i play battletech and even the simplest color scheme looks fitting into the mechs. You can go with full green with one leg and one arm gray or white or yellow. Even one of the most popular color schemes is just red on the top and black on the legs. And you can take that same scheme and just change colors with black on the legs and light brown on the top etc,
So that’s the reason why I’m so fascinated by Oldhammer! Back then it’s more about “go build something fun” less “buy this official plastic spur”. And they have cardboard terrain!
Oldhammer is great! I think there is a lot stuff I love about it! - Cal
That's not oldhammer, you young whippersnapper! Cardboard terrain?!?! You kids don't know you're born.
In my day, back in t' crazy days of 1st and 2nd, if you wanted terrain you built it from scratch out of plastic bottles and bake bean tins.
Hell, some of us even built our own VEHICLES because gw hadn't produced a model for it.
Kids these days... 😂
@@peterclarke7240 I’m confused, I thought the second edition box set came with cardboard terrains? I know some old timers strictly consider only rogue trader as Oldhammer.
@@kail4997 WE DO NOT MENTION THE 2ND EDN CARDBOARD TERRAIN!!!!!
It was comically flimsy and looked cartoonish. Most of us binned it and carried on building our own.
@@peterclarke7240 lol, I haven’t even mentioned the totally tournament-legal cardboard ork dreadnought yet!
Definitely with you on keeping the details on a separate sprue. It solves so many issues with the terrain from ability to paint it, customization (so you don’t clearly see that this is the third iteration of wall 1A on the board), and hedging off the 3rd party retailers. Heck, GW could even sell the detail sprue as a stand alone kit. I really see no downside with this
You took the words right out of my mind. Customization is a great feature when you have so many wall pieces, really hate to have more then 2 that looks alike.
I guess they are scared of selling less inside the paint ant articles for painting department...
@@TheGl0ryan Think GW is more afraid of people just copying they work and why they have so many details on them.
@@darklordofcaliban3551 Isnt this already happening with 3d printing?
like all those guys ( maybe me included with my outdated grey knights i just got) hta need to kidbash their armies to make proper new versions of the marines. Or this made models ( that sometimes look really goofy, just saw one to grey knights that made me nearly puke) so that the terminators are as big as terminators and not smaller then the new marine models...
but yeah scanning those terrains and reusing them is a thing I would do for a 100%, like I get to print ur won armies and not giving greedy gw ur money, but tbh i rather would pay for units then those highly inflated prices for terrain, like legit I could do sth nicer with sticks green stuff and some garbage.....
I am glad that our video made sense and I hope you enjoyed it too ☺ - Cal
This is why I love old hand modeled minis, they don't feel like a 3D model from a videogame exported to real life, but like actual sculptures. There is less detail creep and more expression.
Part of the reason I'm still running Tacticals in modern 40k.
They may be a statistically inferior unit, but they have SO MUCH MORE personality than the generic "cool guy from CoD" poses the Intercessors come in.
That's another reason I loved Indomitus so much, it's like it was one last awesome breath before sinking into the monotony you see on display now.
40k doesn't feel like Dark Souls in space anymore.
More like "Star wars but the lightsabers are chainsaws and Darth Vader is viewed from the Imperial Perspective. -Also an average dude."
i painted about 7,000 points of warhammer fantasy High Elves, and enjoyed most of it. The worst unit to paint was the Lothern Sea Guard, which were also one of the newest kits in the range and consequently much more detailed. It's sad that the newer, more detailed models are ironically less enjoyable to paint. Sometimes less is more- GW needs to get the memo on this!
Yep *sigh* - Cal
I know the feeling, currently sitting on my Thousand Sons. Its the Gold-Trim of Dooooooom. But since they are a bit older, not much but a bit, they are still somewhat manageable. at least compared to some of the new Kill-Team sets.
Every year I paint 5-10 of my high elves and then just give up…
And some of the sculpts are actually pretty terrible like the tiranoc chariot and the silver helms arent really that superior to their old metal counterparts…
@@bingobongo1615 I do not mind if a character model is detailed, but why does every footsoldier need to be covered in bling as well?
@@bingobongo1615 What are you looking for in them? Because if you want more detailed minis Heroes Infinite by Raging Heroes have some great elf sculpts - Cal
The insane amount of unnecessary detail on GW minis could be one of the reasons why they are so bloody expensive.
I prefer using the older models from the 90s and early 2000s. However, on the rare occasion when I buy a modernhammer miniature, I always remove details I deem unnecessary. For example, on a regular space marine I remove all the panel lines from the armour plates so that all the armour is a flat smooth surface.
In the case of Abaddon I removed all the spikes and teeth from his armour, and some of the cabling that were under his arms. I also modified all of his chaos trim to look more like the classic chaos trim from the older chaos models.
My most miserable expirience is painting a 1k points Thousand Sons army, and painting 1k points of new Cadians. Tsons because of the god damn trim and Cadians because of detail creep. New Shock Troopers have so much little details, pouches, holsters and stuff. Previously when I painted a Cadian Shock Trooper it took me about 30 minutes to paint one to a tabletop standard. Now it takes me more than an hour. It was mentally draining.
Yeah, and painting should be a fun experience, but we are wrong about that according to some people... oh well - Cal
People like me. Why would you complain about having more detail? The point of improving these minis is to make them more detailed
I started kitbashing some Imperial Guard models for my own regiment, takign the bodies of some Warlord games Pike & Shotte european regiment and the weapons and arms from some leftover Astra Militarum sprues, and I feel like I probably ditched some of that excessive details. The new cadians also fit surprisingly well with the Warlord games minis, scale wise. I only need a little bit of greenstuff here and there for minor gaps.
Can't wait to get onto painting these lads.
I take issue with people that regard other opinions as "small vocal minority". You are not the truth bearer and it comes across as condescending and self assured. And YOU are also very vocal. This is an opinion video, don't get so full of yourselves.
And I say this as someone who agrees in this case.
Yes, if they don't like it it's ok but they act like it's GW ruining the models and painting experience of everyone so dramatic
Ugh such a wingey video
I'm happier with cheap flat MDF walls. Better to have a few standout centrepieces than trying to have every piece of terrain draw the eye
The level of detail on GW's Space Marines crept up over the years. When they released the Primaris Marines many complained about how they were too plain. Lately, GW has been introducing larger upgrade kits. Now people will complain about the cost of the upgrade kits. I prefer having relatively plain line troops and more detailed characters.
For my Gallowdark terrain, I am considering using a dimly lit approach using a black base, red drybrush and orange drybrush on the various sculpted light sources. My thinking is that only the barest minimum of emergency lighting remains. Limiting my color palette will speed up the work. I am looking for playable terrain that provides a good backdrop for my minis.
Alternately I could go for green tones with yellow for the light sources for something resembling a night vision feel. With just two boxes of the walls plus the Soulshackle add-ons it will still be a big project due to having to mask all the connection points. I hope I bought enough masking tape.
The easiest way to paint terrain:
ua-cam.com/video/YvRkpB8lY7g/v-deo.html
looks interesting, and their are lots of 'versions' of this style of painting. I think one of the best I saw was paint brass drybrush steel which looks much more 'standard' than that scheme presented.
Client requested it was done up like the bases we had been doing for them and thus why we had our scheme have a good one - Cal
If I’m honest I am happy with the printed cardboard terrain. Detail creep is frustrating on miniatures though. Painting the Bretonnian men at arms or Mantics halflings has been a true joy.
Well I think you may enjoy our next episode a lot... Its about our best Warhammer experience and uhhh let's just say we agree on a lot ☺
Or its out now for members... - Cal
The idea is good, the fundamentals are wrong, I don't think that tabletop quality is the definition you gave at all, also you took this job and understimated the work for doing model like quality, some people would be super happy to have a console all rusted and the same color as the walls and call it done
Detail is excellent for faster painting styles. Like oil washes and slapchop. This is why I prefer lots of detail; its easier to paint!
Big flat areas are much harder to paint because you have to add in the detail, like streaks or moss or posters or similar.
I would even go further with another alternative: why not simple stickers for the detailed sections? Even faster and cheaper to produce and looking great from the distance of a tabletop setup.
Not a bad idea - Cal
My most miserable experience thus far has been painting my Celestian Sacresants. The goddammed GILDED TRIM on the gorget and backpack BROKE me. I finished a test model, and cannot bring myself to do another at the moment. I'm going to have to tackle them like characters from other armies; slow and steady.
I did it to myself; I love the nuns with guns, but FFS the amount of detail on them is mind-breaking. Even the new Primaris marines are a breath of fresh air after that.
Oh yeah but don't worry you are wrong the detail levels are good apparently that's what people keep telling us... A few people... I totally feel what you are saying because I actually paint like you 😅 I totally feel you - Cal
Part of the reason I dislike Primaris marines. (apart from them being such an obviously corporate maneuver)
Do I think the Indomitus Box set is the pinnacle of Marine design?- (Unless the suppressors showed up there, lol) -Yes, absolutely.
Did I 3D print some truescale Firstborn models and immediately sigh in relief seeing so many flat, undecorated plates? Also, absolutely yes.
It's just... as a 3-way Painter/modeller/gamer for multiple armies, it sucks to see a dude(ette) with a billion lil gadgets on his/her person because I'll be Doug Dimmadamned if I won't be tempted to paint- Every. Single. One.
And this is on Troops(Battleline) units, mind you.
Intercessors, with all these extra bits on their armor and dozens of overlapping plates.
Yeah, it looks sweet when you do a good job, but... dang. being tempted and/or pushed to add HQ unit levels of detail to a guy that's gonna die within the first two turns, or advance twice and do nothing for the rest of the game is... I almost wanna say "insulting" ?
HQ units or Elite units are fine having all the extra detail, bc they're typically centerpieces for an army anyway, but... yeah, hard agree.
My biggest turnoff when it comes to painting is seeing a model with all these tedious little hoses and plates and vents and decorations... it's...
It's like running an army of Sanguinary guard.
I love the Bladeguard veterans, but they're the biggest offender in this regard.
They look amazing when you paint them up fully, but that's gonna take a while.
But if you paint them underwhelmingly, it shows SO BAD.
Yep, I had to quote high on some Blade Guard for a quote for doing a commission even for tabletop for that reason. Primarius Marines, nice no problem, them... different story - Cal
Im happily painting my old Fantasy / Old World Wood Elves right now. About 30% are minis from the 90s. And I love them! Are the pewter swords way too big? Unfortunatley yes.
But The minis have a ton of charm and just the amount of detail I want.
A lord or a mage can be blinged to the gills.
But when you got to paint 30 ish regular troops? Then who honestly wants a ton of extra pouches, bottles, kniven etc?
Esp in a game with ranks its just no real benefit
100% - Cal
Honestly GW should make the return of the bitz catalog. For anyone who doesn't know at least until mid 2000s here in the USA you could go to your local GW and ask to order specific parts and usually very low cost. Personally I made nearly all conversions at that time and it would have been impossible for me to build my creations ootherwise. If GW expands the bits catalog to offer terrain parts AND bits from any product removed from shelves (while stock is available) it could be a really great thing for both the community and the company clearing out space on its shelves for new inventory. (If the bits catalog is still around please let me know!)
I remember the bitz catalogue - Cal
i find myself more and more coming back to your videos, keep up the good work, thank you
Glad you like them! 😄 - Cal
It's really great to hear people revisiting our channel and finding our stuff useful that is what we aim to do! Thanks for watching ~Sunny
Well damn if I could have pre-painted terrain I'd get it even with 100% mark-up. I like to paint models and terrain, but I sure as hell postpone Gallowdark beacuse there is TOO MUCH detail for me. I feel like I'd have to paint for a long time just to get it done nicely, all the while I could paint my minis which I want to have painted so .... Dilemma is real haha
I am picking up what you're putting down - Cal
Another benefit to keeping those recesses on a separate sprue, it means the hobbyist gets to choose if there's windows or no windows in their terrain.
Windows have been a contentious topic in the gaming section of the hobby before. It has to do with line of sight and if the windows which are purely for aesthetics on some terrain pieces also allow for LOS. Being able to plug those holes at will solves all that and simplifies what should be classified as obscuring terrain and what shouldn't.
And like you said, it's not like GW didn't know how to do that because *that's pretty much how the doors work.*
As always thanks for your comments ShockArc! And yes I actually didn't even consider the point about Line of Sight you are totally right on that.
Just today, we went to the Warhammer store and there was model of the month going on and we sat down with some people and constructed the latest Dark Angel terminator model and the conversation of not wanting to paint a model as detailed as that was initiated naturally by the others and I learned that apparently GW used to do this in the past, they used to keep details and options on a separate sprue and they just aren't doing this anymore for some reason... ~Sunny
You're telling me Gamers and Warhammer Fans can be super pedantic? no... say it isn't so, we wouldn't have read comments which lead us to believe such things ever... - Cal
I dislike most newer GW minis.
1. They have made all the minis in drama student getting a new profile pic poses.
2. They added so many details that cutting them off is the best customisation option.
3.they made multi part kits that create monopose minis, you get extra work because it takes up less shelf space or saves GW money or whatever - I don't want an airfix hobby.
Detail creep... Couldn't have said it better. Detail creep is why I hate some of the Patreon mini creators, like Mini Monster Mayhem and Archvillain Games. I mean, sure, the sculpts are awesome, but for printing and painting, they are ridiculously overkill.
So many third party models are over-designed.
Dave's Ravaged Star series is a good example of what I mean
I prefer pushing some of the detailing on seperate sprues (or seperately on the sprue) because of the way it opens options up as well as it probably being easier than adopting the whole new approach with the pretainting. I'm also unsure about gettign them prepainted, with chances being, that I'l lhave to paint over it anyway, to match it to my armies, or going for a specific style.
As someone who's able to relatively quickly take a glance at gothic and baroque architectures, those doe have a lot of empty alcoves (at least today) and even without doing anything fancy with them painting wise, they would still look believable and good.
Empty space can be a really good thing! Helps guide the eyes and not overload it with stuff. This Boarding actions terrain almost has the same effect as bullet hell games on ym eyes. wich is, not great x_x
Yep pretty much what we are saying, I am picking up what you are putting down - Cal
I hate painting terrain. I just drybrushed my walls and colored some key details. I think it looks pretty good for background to battles
With the modern computer designed multipart figures there are many spaces on the model where you cant even get a brush to in there, this wouldnt have happend in the hand sculpted days, as the sculpting tool as much the same shape as a brush. I find painting the old hand sculpted models far more enjoyable becouse i don't have to worry about painting in sub assemblies, or have really hard to reach areas and less fine detail over all.
Yep 100% - Cal
I totally get this. I dont mind the detail on my more elite armies like marines, but on swarm/horde armies like Tyranids and genestealer cults its just exhausting and feels so pointless. Thats why i mostly used old guard models for my genestealer cults.
Totally agree - Cal
Some really detailed minis I thought I would love I end up hating. Because I for one am not skilled enough to maximize that detail.
And secondly I got tired.
Some of the simplest minis are my favorites.
The dream and the reality often part ways once you hit the pavement - Cal
Just found this video and found it helpful. One thing, it's totally irrelevant, but I can't place your accents
I am Australian and Sunny is Singaporean - Cal
Joke on you, there’s never enough skulls for my Khorne team.
Joke aside, at first I thought details weren’t a big deal. But then when you talked about seperated sprues, I understood that they could be sold seperatly, and the base piece could be cheaper. It would lower the entry cost to the hobby (cash, time and skill) and yet let means for a minority to really go nut with details.
Skulls for the skull throne !
Now to actually make you angry... These could have had skull base sprues in them... There are less skulls for Khorne because of them - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow
Noooooo D:
Just did 20 Novitiates and MAAAAAN are you right. So many Fleur De Lis!
Oh yeah things can get a little much at times - Cal
Very, very ballys of you to take on the commission 😂 that would push me to the point of exiting the hobby 😂
Well I like to eat food you see - Cal
This is why i prefer frostgrave, Oathmark, Stargrave and a few other minis, there's enougn details to signify what they're representing (weapons and armour and stuff) but there aren't rivets on armour or safety switches on guns.
If we want that on a special character or something we'll paint it ourselves
I really think you should join as a member my dude because... you are going to love the next one and I think you may want to be in early for it 😉 - Cal
Pointless abundance of detail is part of Gothic architecture, so for me this is an important part of the (visual) lore of Warhammer. Guess I'm part of the minority. I absolutely am for your idea of add-on sprues, all your arguments are good.
On the other hand I'd personally hate if there were no unpainted boxes available anymore. I'd have an inner blockage preventing me from painting something which already comes with colour.
I get what you are saying but even with the pointless abundance you still could have had that if you had the detail sprues sperate, but it would have been more of a choice and MUCH easier to paint - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow After that reply I'm not sure that you got what I'm saying. I said all your arguments on that matter are good and that I agree with your conclusion that putting intense detail on additional sprues/bits is a good idea.
It's not even that i find it tediuous, but at least on the miniatures themselves i find the details ugly, making the modelsway too busy.
Totally fair - Cal
I thought you were using my picture in the thumbnail. I literally suffered through several sets of those walls.
Four boxes and every supplement... - Cal
You should be extremely proud of your work here honestly the painting is so good put some of these pictures in your portfolio
Thank you very much - Cal
I had to paint kill team octarious terrain for a commission. ALL the details needed to be painted... it was pure pain.
The into the dark terrain set is not fun. I painted 1 box and had the exact same experience. After half of the pieces I just gave up on doing every little detail and the rest of the monitors and other skit I skipped. In the future I would like terrain pieces that are more simple to paint. Not neccecarly less detailed but just easier. Think of the ship design in Star Wars, like a star destroyer or the Death Star. They are covered with small details but all same colours. Would love to have the a into the dark terrain peice that was like that. Simple spray of base coat, wash + drybrush and it would look good.
Yeah I think for example the people we talked about Dungeons and Lazers the lazers part of their stuff is great fantastic! I really like it, does exactly what we are talking about - Cal
as someone who is currently painting boading actions terrain I feel your pain. Luckily I'm only doing one box though, and only to my crappy standards.
That sounds like a good idea swells! Don't do what we did even if we did as a job 😂 ~Sunny
Don't put down your own standards its okay, plus doing 4 boxes is much worse so know that it could be worse... much worse. And now you feel better... right? Right? - Cal
Our group has been playing together for over 20 years. We built our custom-made campaign maps years ago. Our group is made up mostly retired IT people. There were 4 people in the original group, but we've grown to 14 over the years. Interestingly, most our new members were found by our kids, who've been playing with us since before they were teenagers. The demise of GW hit us hard, but it also gave us new hope because we've decided to go our own way. We will create our own lore, rule-sets, models, design our own armies, and print them on the 2 3D printers we purchased. While we decided we won't be playing shops or tournaments anymore, we'll continue to enjoy our hobby in the comfort of our own homes, on our custom-made campaign maps, where the Death Knights don't have to wear the new "GW sanctioned" pink and purple battle tutus. Best of all, we'll save a ton of money.
I think you may enjoy this video
ua-cam.com/video/f4Q7fztdSaY/v-deo.html
I hope you and yours continue with the hobby - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Thank you
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I get the gist of the video, but you know, there is no greater joy in table top gaming than watching your children and their children take an interest in something you've loved for years. There is no "negative energy" when your 8 year-old grand daughter is sitting on your lap telling you what move you should make.
I just use books, Legos and boxes for terrain, though.
Ugly, unthematic and mismatched? absolutely.
Functional? to some degree!
Truest to 40k's old ways of "do the moronic fun stuff, throw ur scatter dice, DON'T YOU DARE PRE-MEASURE, and OH JOY MY TERMINATORS TELEPORTED OFF THE TABLE!"
WFB's getting the old worlds treatment, Maybe they'll do the same for 40k. I mean if GW loves its money so much, why not reboot things from 2nd edition Onwards?
The boarding action terrain has basically become my go-to dry palette bits. I ain’t painting all that.
Couldn't agree with you more it felt like it would never end, that's why we really love the Dungeons & Lazers terrain ~Sunny
Chaos Marines from Blackstone Fortress. F
M
L
Never again
Totally understand just did the kill team in the most recent hobby video - Cal
It must be happening because they don't do it by hand for a LONG time now. Once they made a 3D sculpt they probably just click a button and a CAD programm cuts it up automatically.
Look closer at the sprues. It can be baffling how unfriendly to the consumer some of the builds are. Most times, not a single QA pass was made to account for ease of build, people who kitbash, people who magnetize. I convert and kitbash a lot (a lot) and I've been noticing it for a long time.
They must have less than a dozen people working on all of it and their competence is uneven to say the least (Desolation Marines anyone?).
Yep... totally agree that's what we were talking about with the "Because we can thing" because you can isn't a good enough excuse. Products should be developed with the consumer in mind first and foremost - Cal
These solutions are all very good suggestions. I hope GW listen.
Thank you 😊 - Cal
So accessories on seperate sprues? You mean like the good ol' days?
🧔Yes - Cal
The transition animations in this video are really cute.
Thank you very much its part of the software which makes editing a whole lot easier ~Sunny
And then there are people like me.
I believe sometimes less is more.
Also sometimes the details on the mini doesn't fit the aesthetic that I'm going for, I'll end up chopping parts off just to add other parts.
Hopefully with how games workshop released the Deathwing upgrade kit is a step in the right direction.
Start with a blank Terminator and upgrade it to give the aesthetic as much or as little as one wants.
This comes from someone that doesn't even play DA.
Upgrade kits done in a similar way across the board would IMO be a welcomed idea.
Win/win for big GW also as they get to sell the kits and not over produce entire model sets.
I would say yeah pretty much in agreement with all of that - Cal
Know any cheap alternatives to the boarding action terrain?
I want something that looks good but also isn't a pain to paint. I have neck problems and leaning over a table all day to paint details on miniatures is really actually painful.
I am not sure how cheap is cheap but the dungeon and Lazers sci-fi terrian may hit the spot - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Thanks for the recommendation. I will check them out.
I hope they have doors that can open and close.
@@vicnedel02 the mediaeval ones have functional doors but not sure about sci-fi ones - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow
They don't. I need to figure out a solution. I might print out some or make cardboard place-holders. But yeah. The Sci-fi Starter set is door-less. Only open pass ways.
i like details, but you can't have them everywhere. star wars ships are a perfect example. some parts are still relatively smooth. this looks much too cluttered. I think that's why the 2nd edition space marine is so enjoyable to paint. arguably more than v3
On separate parts: it frustrates me enormously when GW don't split their models as potential sub-assemblies. It just makes everything harder. The worst example I came across recently was the special-edition Assassin on the Sister of Battle statue. THEY'RE BOTH ONE PIECE! WHY??????? *Everyone* will want to paint those two parts separately, then glue them together to make the finished piece. Every single person in the world. NO-ONE would WANT it to be one piece, unless they just weren't planning to paint it at all (in which case why did they get it, as it's not a gaming piece - and if it were, a separate Assassin would STILL be better). So WHY did GW make it one piece?????? I literally opened the box, looked at it, and said out loud "that's sociopathic". Absolutely mad decision... and they do this kind of thing all the time.
the ending simpsons bit, the voice was stop on holy shit
Glad you enjoyed it, someone had to after doing all that - Cal
You guys should definitely get some experience painting MDF terrain. Their lack of detail and texture often times makes it slightly harder to paint.
Guys "it's a you problem". Your suggestions would need way more work from GW which you just can't realisticly expect.
You'll probably get either the same as now or just less detail in general. I'd prefer the level of detail.
That being said:
I absolutely don't understand what's forcing you to paint every single detail in the first place? leave some out...
I went hard on Chalnath, Fronteris Nachmund with an overgrown forest look, and started on Gallowdark and its accessories and totally got burnt out. Recently purchased a Battle Systems Galactic Core set and had so much fun putting it together. Breath of fresh air. Will get back to Gallowdark at some point, but it has so many parts and detail, it's gonna take ages.
I think part of the problem is that GW is always trying to get new people into the hobby, as well as appeal to those casual players and people who just buy the models for competitive play. This is just speculation, but I think those types of hobbyists outnumber the pure painter and diorama-ists, and even if they didn't, it's important to GW that the hobby doesn't create a higher barrier to entry than there already is. Warhammer is a notoriously expensive hobby, but GW was really smart teaching people in store the base --> drybrush --> wash technique, because then beginners can walk into the store and walk away with a decent looking mini. And now you have contrast paints that take that 3 step process and simple it down even further into 1 and a half steps. But my point is that additional sculpture detail helps that large demographic who are not that great at painting (and often aren't trying to be that good at painting). Compare a 90s model done with contrast paint to a modern one, and I think you'll see that with no extra technique the end consumer would feel like they made something more amazing because the details do some heavy lifting.
So long story short, more details make simple paint jobs look fancier, and that helps attract new players and retain a large chunk who, while not that interested in painting, still want their minis to look decent.
I like your idea of having the inner panes as seperate sprues. I would actually do the inner parts, but I only buy so much terrain and keep using it over and over. With armies you are always buying more minis so I like less detail in those.
I am picking up what you are putting down - Cal
Detail creep is real. I rarely play these days so my hobby is 90% painting and the few GW kits I’ve painted the last few years have been a ton of work when compared to similar kits from mantic or tt combat. I’ve enjoyed them least because honestly the extra detail constrains the painter, it doesn’t actually help in my view.
I used to be big into 40k. I'm a converter. Started with orks and was moving into admech. Wow, it was a staggering amount of detail. Never finished painting the army and I only paint to "table top" level
I don't think the "I pay for that!" argument fares well: we pay for quality, and sometimes quality is not about the quantity of stuff on the miniature.
I agree with all your points except the prepainted sets.
i mean...
doing a commission, where the price never really reflects the effort or hours put in, of course is going to be a shitty experience. people fall into the trap of thinking a big commission is better or means discount. I've found over the years. more work. i balloon the price to almost "fuck you" lvl because I know I don't want to do those jobs. Or i stipulate a min 6 month lead time. because... yeah, fuck you
Terrain having detail isn't an issue. it's printing 300 bits of it, in a short period of time when it feel like a job is the issue.
I would possibly get into the game part kf wh40k except the game peices are too expensive and then i need to paint them whicj is even more time and equipment .
One of the things that really appealed to me about games like d&d isnthat i can drop $60 for a rule book and then be off to the races.the dice are easy enough to get and while additional materials would be helpful they are not essential
I really enjoy painting kill teams. That’s me. I like the amount of detail in them and the fact I can focus on 8 or 10 units at a time, which takes me weeks. I’m glad I have friends who do terrain tho… that seems like a chore
I feel that painting is tedious, but at the same time, I feel really great when I do a good job on a model or terrain piece and look back on the finished product. The enjoyment doesn't come from the moment to moment painting as much as from enjoying the result and the pride that "I did that."
30 years ago half of that would be printed card, fast cheap an easy.
Look at the old gorkamorka terrain, its plastic an card, paint a bit of plastic then tab A to B an glue.
9:46 to each is own I guess. Personally I wouldn't buy prepainted minis because it takes the artistry and creativity right out of it.
I think it easier to do it yourself and make it the way people do it in real life: automate. Like everything consists of standardized pieces we can recreate in a factory fashion.
wait... that's professional quality? so i do paint professionally!? i guess i'll start a fyver or something.
I love super detailed terrain. Then again I'm a slow painter and enjoy the process. Plus I don't have a time limit.
Skill Issue.
Shoulda painted it 3 colors and called it done.
What skill was the issue? Self Respect. 😂
yeah I have been feeling that gw's terrain is getting too detailed to be a good backdrop for the miniatures that are meant to be standing in front of them. i get that they are putting extra detail in to distract us from how expensive it is but it doesn't change how over detailed a lot of it can be. I don't mind some detail but if it's over detailed it makes painting them a pain in the brush hand
Yep... pretty much our take too - Cal
Your content is just so much negativity. Here you are complaining about a commissioned job? Don't do it then
8:23 Boom. Case settled, [What are you Painting now?] wins
Thanks - Cal
Im a 2-6e player returning at tenth.
Detail creep is a pain in the butt.
I found the easier solution is to just print simpler minis.
Look man i want to paint Orks and Necroms.
I don't want to have to paint all the ittt jitty fiddly bitz n bobz
Adaptive detail is a great idea
Glad you think so! - Cal
10:56 There is a person adjacent to my local gaming community.
He absolutely lambasted the new SM terminator chaplain. Hated it. Vocally, for *days*. Why? "It's not 40k! It's not warhammer! It's not detailed enough!" No amount of calm explaining got through that "if you want more detail, you can always put 50 more purity seals or skulls on him" but cutting them off is much more difficult. There are two additional twists to the story.
Said lad, is a metagamer. Plays only what's the strongest and will berate you if you bring a "fun" list to a tournament with him.
And that's why, he doesn't really paint much himself.
Second... he plays aos. He doesn't play 40k, doesn't read the lore, hates space marines in particular and openly states that he joined 40k chatgroup to create discontent (later saying that we're toxic).
Extra joke: he started playing TOW (competitive, of course) because of "my nostalgia" and "they're good looking because they're simple and less detailed". Simultaneously, he states that "gw is the best because the detailed sculpt, they have the most detailed sculpts!" And, naturally, fingers in ears when you point out to the contrary.
Oh well.
Some people are addicted to anger as much as any drug - Cal
I really like your idea about greebly sprues. That would give both camps what they want, and open up for somem really interesting conversions too! The greeblys could be sold separately, thus making the standard box cheaper but still have the potential to increase sales when people buy greeblys for their other projects too!
100% - Cal
having the terrain in a starter set be pre painted by automated process and not just have the be a printed cardboard tile or printed paper mat would be a great thing for beginners as it would reduce potential mental barriers to play while also subtly incouraging new players to paint their minis and thus probably buy paints off gw along with a few more miniatures
I do think that box that was a piece of terrain was an awesome idea though, I thought it was super cool - Cal
Somehow ending up being all six of gws customer categories without even knowing it.
He is very British but I can't place her accent.
I am Australian and Sunny is Singaporean but has lived with me for a few years now - Cal
To be honest with things like walls.. spray and drybrush is likely fine for most of it.
I find it hard to agree with the complaint about getting higher detail models. It is basicly the only thing GW still has going for them. Painting is 90% of the hobby for most people , and getting more to paint is from my point of view getting more value for money.
Disregarding people who disagree with you as a 'vocal and sometimes vulgar minority' is a bit unnecessary and also just not true. Ask any GW store owner and they'll tell you it is much more common for people to paint and not play warhammer, then vice versa. People who like painting are the vast majority.
Your proposed solution makes sense tho, but I fear it would just invite GW to milk their costumers more by selling detail sprues seperately.
If you saw the chats we had to remove, I don't think you would say the same also most people like the very popular short.
If someone is a minority opinion and they can't make points without being that way... Well I am sorry it's an apt descriptor - Cal
Yeah, I feel you. I painted 1k Sororitas as a gift for a friend and the amount of detail on every single mini killed a portion of my soul the further in I got. I never want to touch Sororitas again, and that’s a shame because I think some of their stuff is SUPER cool.
I also bounced off the ITD terrain hard. I did one full wall to tabletop standard, realized it took me a week for that one wall, and did a gradient airbrush plus oil wash and drybrush to finish. Job’s a good’un.
Yep, it's not good when your hobby is a drag totally agree - Cal
This was surprisingly thoughtful and I agreed and disagreed with various parts but wow! Did you open my eyes to some of the problems that people in our hobby face. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it and it's totally okay to disagree. Hope you will enjoy more of our content - Cal
Tbh onnnnnly thing stopping me from buying more minis is it takes so long to paint the ones I have already.
If you want details to be provided on a separate sprue, you're going to push up the cost. Having an entire separate sprue doubles the amount of machining of steel for the molds, thus doubling that aspect of cost in the production process.
It's entirely do-able, but would see a big price jump as a consequence
I think the cost of the models does not reflect the base materials and labour, but I understand what you are saying - Cal
Hi I'm making minies myself right now (or trying to) and this is something that I want to ask from people who are on a higher level when it comes to painting (I'm not bad ether but not this good). At what point should I stop with detailing? I'm starting to get a hang of it but I still would aprichiate some help with it, to avoid this exact situation.
I think it is a case of making sure you have the painter in mind. So for example, if you have raised areas make sure that they could be easily struck by a paintbrush.
So often when it comes to 3D-printed minis (which I believe you are referring to) make sure that the recesses are deeper than you think necessary and that the raised areas are raised higher than you think. I would say if you have items that over other items this is where you start getting too much detail. So for example the Primaris Leftiant has a sash that goes over a grenade and belt... this is where it is becoming too much.
But do what sells models for you. A lot of people just buy sculpts they don't paint, so do what makes you money. We don't want to give advice that would make you worse off - Cal
I love the idea of additional details bruise instead of The current one size fits all approach. They definitely should already be doing that for the price they are charging; especially considering it's what they used to do!
Yep I love the old marine style packs, I actually really like the style of the Primarus marines but I just wish they did them like the old school marines, head, torso, legs, arms. 100% with you - Cal
Counting at odd number 365 from two boxes is mathematically impossible unless there we're missing pieces or a piece added or you somehow cut something in half.
Additional stuff we mentioned all the add ons - Cal
Pre painted terrain, sign me up.. I paint cuz plastic looks bad comparatively
More a player? - Cal
I used to love painting, and I loved doing all the little details, but the problem is as you mentioned, repetitiveness. Extreme details are great.... on a one off mini. But once you've done your tenth, twentieth or even fiftieth piece of the same detail it all blends together. I used to play Orks, because to me, Orks were the best when it came to allowing people to do what they want with their vehicles and paint however you like, however, even Orks became really samey, and when I eventually gave up, there wasn't that many options out there for custom or 3D printed pieces, and what options there were, were often very expensive.
I am picking up what you're putting down. It's frustrating as we are trying to say hey this an issue and often we are faced with don't complain 😔 - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Absolutely! Personally, I have held a similar opinion to you guys in this video with the greebles. All of that should be separate to allow for differences and customisation, but also for you to be able to control the level of detail you want to include. A flat wall can look just as good, if not in some cases better if someone wants to make it so.
I think back to the Space Wolves sets from 3ED and how you would basically get a Space Marine box set, with a couple of Space Wolf conversion sprues.
You could make the team however it suits you. While the level of detail has improved, we are also seeing so many more static pose sets. Customisation, which was always the best thing from me, has become the price paid for higher detail.
I have all this painting supplies to try and make my life easier, but at the end of the day I still hate it. Painting is a chore. As someone who just wants a good enough looking model to play the game, the hobby aspect always feels like a massive barrier to get to the fun part.
And we totally get what you are saying! Not everyone is looking to do the painting and converting side of the hobby and folks like yourself should be considered too when Designing models ~Sunny
Terrain is some of the least enjoyable things to paint. I have several times in the past bought pre-painted terrain, and maybe added a few finishing touches.
I like the prisma cast idea, and hope to see it expanded onto wargaming terrain too.
We want to keep pushing the Prismacast thing because we want to channel it into a reality - Cal