OMG, not me forgetting my boy Sam!!! Sam too, has heavy Smith parallels, like his friend Jon, but where Jon is the Warrior, Sam is the Crone. And I think that this archetype would grow stronger now that he is studying at the Citadel. He is going to provide knowledge like the Crone provides wisdom. About Arianne, idk dude, she is a cool girl, when she doesn’t have the hots. FFS SHE HEARD DARKSTAR TALK AND SHE WAS like “oMg, bUt hE iS sO hOt!”. Also, Dany is Stormborn, another father element!
I agree with half of this, I don't think we have gods, but it is one power that people created deities with numerous forms depending on the cultures that adopt them
χαίρετε!!! Awesomely EPIC, as per usual. Even I got scared when you told GRRM to take care of Brienne, and I love, love, love hearing the Gods' names pronounced properly, as far as I know :), by a native speaker (Perse-PHone makes much more sense than perSEPHone). It really does make a difference, especially when trying to decipher the underlying, dare I say "archetypal" meaning of their names, which is more often a descriptor or "title" for their role in the story than just a "name"/label, and we all know GRRM loves his wordplay. One of my favs has always been Danny's "Pale Mare, mere, Mère" connections as a Pale Mère(Mother), riding her Silver a literal pale mare(white horse or Revelations/female horse), while crossing the pale mere (white, "Ghost" grass Sea), and bringing the "Pale Mare"(Death, Plague) with her, as well. In that regard, I suppose she could be seen as the "Maiden" who became a "Crone/Widow/"Witch" who will ultimately become reborn as a spiritual "Mother"/Mysha to many. The Feminine "Holy Trinity", if you like. LML is streaming this evening at 6 pm EST. Come on by. Cheers & Tschuss!!!
Ooh I loved this. When I first saw that you had put Daenerys as the Father I had to pause and think for a second, but it does make total sense, and I can't believe I didn't see it before! Also, Arya as the Father reminds me of Nymeria's role leading her pack. I am very excited for that video on The Fool. Will that be next?
About the warrior being the guardian of children I can think if 2 characters that can fit that description: Ned (odd right we usually think of him as the father) but him going against Robert to protect dany (she is just a child) lying to save his nephew (presenting him as his son) first thing he says in the cat pov is "where are the children", lying to save his daughters etc. The other would be sandor Clegane protecting Sansa from Jeoffrey and later protecting Arya.
3:55 Which time of year is Perseophne in the underworld? I believe you are correct that in old versions, shes away in summer and back in winter. However, in later versions this is switched. Persephone means 'rising like green shoots', so her name does indeed reference plants growing in spring. My understanding is that Perseophne is spring - but in ancient times she was worshipped as Kore, or Desponia, and at that time she was away in summer. This is because - I think - this story is related to the Baal story in Cananite mythology - in that story Baal goes to the underworld in the summer, returns in winter, brining the storms that bring rain and fertility to the land. So it relates to the geography of different places - in the East, Summer was scorching and difficult, so their god was thought to be absent then. - by the time these stories entered greek history as Kore/ Persephone, however, the story was adapted to suit the greek climate, where summer was lovely and winter was infertile.
I haven't logged in to answer to comments in days, buckle up, because I see you have left a lot😂 Persephone is in the underworld during the Summer and she is reunited with her mother during the autumn when the ripe crop and the new seeds are both laid on the ground, she meets her mother once again. The name Persephone, Περσεφόνη in Greek doesn't have a meaning we are 100% sure of, it can mean the destroyer of death because πέρθω means to destroy (it is the same root as the name Perseus) and φόνος means murder or kill. The association with green I have seen only in non-greek sources because the word we use for green in Greek now could indeed sound like the first part of the name Persephone, but in ancient Greece, they were not using the same word as often to describe green things, they were using the word chloro (χλωρό), so I think this interpretation is kinda broken telephone. Persephone is associated with green and fertility though, because her mother is Demetra and her relation with the underworld. Persephone was an ancient chthonic deity of agricultural societies, who received the souls of the dead into the earth but gained power for the fertility of the soil under which she reigned. She was also above the earth when the crops were green, meaning autumn and winter. This was the essence of the celebration of Persephone's "ascent" in the Eleusinian Mysteries (Eleusina is the place where I am from my dad's side btw). The return (rising) of Persephone was celebrated with the autumn sowing. Pluto symbolizes the wealth of wheat that was stored in underground silos or pithus during the summer months, we even use the word "plutos" for riches and wealth in Greek to this day. Similar pithos were formerly used for burials, and Pluto is identified with Hades, the ruler of the underworld. In the summer months, Kore is in the grain of the underground silos, in the realm of Hades, and is identified with "Persephone", the queen of the underworld. At the beginning of autumn, when the seeds of the old harvest are sown in the fields, Kore ascends (rises), and is reunited with her mother Demeter, for the old seed is united with the new shoot. Thanks for watching!
@@CompanyOfTheCat I acknowledged that there are a lot of evidence for Persephones period of absence being during the summer. But I offer that there is also evidence that it is reversed in later periods of antiquity. Wikipedia acknowledges the split interpretations - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persephone#:~:text=as%20Zuntz%20claims.-,Goddess%20of%20spring%20and%20nature,was%20frequently%20represented%20on%20sarcophagi. The page for Proserpina also states the same: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proserpina. I favour the winter absence. Plants grow well in summer, and badly in winter. Therefore winter is the anomalous, sad, threatening period. Persephone is the seed, which goes in the ground in autumn, remains underground through winter, and then emerges in spring. She's also the sun, which receeds, hides and 'dies' in the inter solstice, to be slowly reborn as the Spring Equinox approaches. I believe the winter / summer controversy is probably to do with latitude of the people telling the story. Peopl in south or east greece would experience droughts in summer and fair weather in winter. People in north greece and Europe would fear winter, and love summer. Compare this to the Scottish legend of Beira and Bride - Bride is a maiden held captive through winter by Beira, Fairy Queen of Winter. Only when she is reduced by Angus, does spring come. Crucially, Martin is working off the winter absence since he shows us many maids being stolen as winter arrives in Westeros.
Sandor Clegane is also a Warrior who protects the children (Sansa and Arya), besides being closely related to the Stranger And Tyrion is a Fool IMO, he doesnt fit like the Maiden like Jaime (who has only bedded Cersei and loves her)
Martin under utilises the crone. He has few older women in general. I always find it strange that Bran is settled upon as the crone. There is ONE true crone in the story: Lady Stone Heart. A former mother, she is undead (opened the door to death). Her eyes glow like the lantern. She is / could be a grandmother, if Robb impregnated Jeyne. In her weirwood hideout, shes like a woods witch, and crones are often witches.
Have you come up with a cringe name to call your fan base? It's a mark of a true UA-camr to name your group of fans with the most cringe name. If you are taking suggestions, I think "Zeta, Alpha, Azor Ahai is pretty funny. Unless that's insensitive to your Greek heritage. Then hopefully my ignorance is at least kinda funny.
Given that "The Company of the Cat" is a Sellsword Company in ADWD maybe she should call her Fans only Cats ... or Whiskers, the Captain of That Company is described with Whiskers😂
Perhaps the constant cycle of white Walker and night king emergence always had a hero to stand against them….the Targaryen storyline is just the current one in dealing with white walkers….perhaps the Daynes had to deal with them at a prehistoric time….and all the other fair haired houses at other times. Maybe fire was incorporated into their storylines in some way….Dragons being the cause of fire for the Targaryens. For example if the falling star in the case of Dawn was probably a fiery meteor. And the original sword of the morning maybe dealt with the night king.
I don't agree about your interpretation of Persephone as the Maiden. That Deity was most likely a very old Goddess of Death that predates Hades and the Pantheon of Zeus, I recommend the Video of "Overly Sarcastic Productions" about: "Miscellaneous Myths: Hades and Persephone" There the whole theme is more explained. Everything else: A very entertaining and explained Video. I had a lot of Fun watching it. One thing I want to add to it: Many Smith-Deitys are also Deitis of Volcanos, given your Theory about the Horns in this Story, especially Dragonbinder that is an interesting Connection.
Glad you liked it 😊 About Persephone, her name means literally the Maiden (Kore), after her abduction (meaning all the shit maidens are going through), the name became Persephone and became connected with the underworld. As Kore, she was connected with her mother, being young, innocent, ready to be fertile and all the things a maiden is associated with.
@@CompanyOfTheCat I know that Kore is another Name for Persephone as is probably Despoina. My apologies, if my thought process doesn't make a lot of sense, but as a non-native English speaker, I have trouble sometimes finding the right words for my thought process and Google most of the time, translates it wrong.
OMG, not me forgetting my boy Sam!!! Sam too, has heavy Smith parallels, like his friend Jon, but where Jon is the Warrior, Sam is the Crone. And I think that this archetype would grow stronger now that he is studying at the Citadel. He is going to provide knowledge like the Crone provides wisdom.
About Arianne, idk dude, she is a cool girl, when she doesn’t have the hots. FFS SHE HEARD DARKSTAR TALK AND SHE WAS like “oMg, bUt hE iS sO hOt!”.
Also, Dany is Stormborn, another father element!
I think the gods are like Percy Jackson gods in that they have numerous forms depending on the cultures that adopt them
I can't believe you forgot Sam, I mean comeon
I'm sorryyyyyyy
I agree with half of this, I don't think we have gods, but it is one power that people created deities with numerous forms depending on the cultures that adopt them
@@CompanyOfTheCat what about the lord of light and the great other
χαίρετε!!! Awesomely EPIC, as per usual. Even I got scared when you told GRRM to take care of Brienne, and I love, love, love hearing the Gods' names pronounced properly, as far as I know :), by a native speaker (Perse-PHone makes much more sense than perSEPHone). It really does make a difference, especially when trying to decipher the underlying, dare I say "archetypal" meaning of their names, which is more often a descriptor or "title" for their role in the story than just a "name"/label, and we all know GRRM loves his wordplay.
One of my favs has always been Danny's "Pale Mare, mere, Mère" connections as a Pale Mère(Mother), riding her Silver a literal pale mare(white horse or Revelations/female horse), while crossing the pale mere (white, "Ghost" grass Sea), and bringing the "Pale Mare"(Death, Plague) with her, as well. In that regard, I suppose she could be seen as the "Maiden" who became a "Crone/Widow/"Witch" who will ultimately become reborn as a spiritual "Mother"/Mysha to many. The Feminine "Holy Trinity", if you like.
LML is streaming this evening at 6 pm EST. Come on by.
Cheers & Tschuss!!!
Love this take about Dany!
Ooh I loved this. When I first saw that you had put Daenerys as the Father I had to pause and think for a second, but it does make total sense, and I can't believe I didn't see it before! Also, Arya as the Father reminds me of Nymeria's role leading her pack.
I am very excited for that video on The Fool. Will that be next?
No, the next one is gonna be about the Celtigars and the Masseys, but I am working on it.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Ooooh that sounds exciting too!! Can't wait!
The video was indeed amazing. i love how George plays with archetypes all the time. btw, the way you said "cruel" at 17:28 sounds like Stewie Griffin.
Steeeeewieee?? 😂
@@CompanyOfTheCat Just search on youtube "Brian and Stewie ruined" 😜😁
I like your Dany analysis, she has many faces 👍
"Martin, I am talking directly to you... I am watching you." Never cross a Greek woman.
Nice to see you appreciate Donal too
Awesome video
Old Nan is the Crone, and Maester Luwin and Maester Aemon.
I love you analysis videos.
the Return of the bear, the bear, the bear
yas!
I got that same lesson from 2020 also - one of them. HAIL THE SMITH!
About the warrior being the guardian of children I can think if 2 characters that can fit that description:
Ned (odd right we usually think of him as the father) but him going against Robert to protect dany (she is just a child) lying to save his nephew (presenting him as his son) first thing he says in the cat pov is "where are the children", lying to save his daughters etc.
The other would be sandor Clegane protecting Sansa from Jeoffrey and later protecting Arya.
3:55 Which time of year is Perseophne in the underworld? I believe you are correct that in old versions, shes away in summer and back in winter. However, in later versions this is switched. Persephone means 'rising like green shoots', so her name does indeed reference plants growing in spring. My understanding is that Perseophne is spring - but in ancient times she was worshipped as Kore, or Desponia, and at that time she was away in summer. This is because - I think - this story is related to the Baal story in Cananite mythology - in that story Baal goes to the underworld in the summer, returns in winter, brining the storms that bring rain and fertility to the land. So it relates to the geography of different places - in the East, Summer was scorching and difficult, so their god was thought to be absent then. - by the time these stories entered greek history as Kore/ Persephone, however, the story was adapted to suit the greek climate, where summer was lovely and winter was infertile.
I haven't logged in to answer to comments in days, buckle up, because I see you have left a lot😂
Persephone is in the underworld during the Summer and she is reunited with her mother during the autumn when the ripe crop and the new seeds are both laid on the ground, she meets her mother once again.
The name Persephone, Περσεφόνη in Greek doesn't have a meaning we are 100% sure of, it can mean the destroyer of death because πέρθω means to destroy (it is the same root as the name Perseus) and φόνος means murder or kill. The association with green I have seen only in non-greek sources because the word we use for green in Greek now could indeed sound like the first part of the name Persephone, but in ancient Greece, they were not using the same word as often to describe green things, they were using the word chloro (χλωρό), so I think this interpretation is kinda broken telephone.
Persephone is associated with green and fertility though, because her mother is Demetra and her relation with the underworld. Persephone was an ancient chthonic deity of agricultural societies, who received the souls of the dead into the earth but gained power for the fertility of the soil under which she reigned. She was also above the earth when the crops were green, meaning autumn and winter. This was the essence of the celebration of Persephone's "ascent" in the Eleusinian Mysteries (Eleusina is the place where I am from my dad's side btw). The return (rising) of Persephone was celebrated with the autumn sowing. Pluto symbolizes the wealth of wheat that was stored in underground silos or pithus during the summer months, we even use the word "plutos" for riches and wealth in Greek to this day. Similar pithos were formerly used for burials, and Pluto is identified with Hades, the ruler of the underworld. In the summer months, Kore is in the grain of the underground silos, in the realm of Hades, and is identified with "Persephone", the queen of the underworld. At the beginning of autumn, when the seeds of the old harvest are sown in the fields, Kore ascends (rises), and is reunited with her mother Demeter, for the old seed is united with the new shoot.
Thanks for watching!
@@CompanyOfTheCat I acknowledged that there are a lot of evidence for Persephones period of absence being during the summer. But I offer that there is also evidence that it is reversed in later periods of antiquity. Wikipedia acknowledges the split interpretations - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persephone#:~:text=as%20Zuntz%20claims.-,Goddess%20of%20spring%20and%20nature,was%20frequently%20represented%20on%20sarcophagi.
The page for Proserpina also states the same: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proserpina.
I favour the winter absence. Plants grow well in summer, and badly in winter. Therefore winter is the anomalous, sad, threatening period. Persephone is the seed, which goes in the ground in autumn, remains underground through winter, and then emerges in spring. She's also the sun, which receeds, hides and 'dies' in the inter solstice, to be slowly reborn as the Spring Equinox approaches. I believe the winter / summer controversy is probably to do with latitude of the people telling the story. Peopl in south or east greece would experience droughts in summer and fair weather in winter. People in north greece and Europe would fear winter, and love summer. Compare this to the Scottish legend of Beira and Bride - Bride is a maiden held captive through winter by Beira, Fairy Queen of Winter. Only when she is reduced by Angus, does spring come.
Crucially, Martin is working off the winter absence since he shows us many maids being stolen as winter arrives in Westeros.
The dwarves of Norse and Celtic mythology where described as having deformed feet! Shit, I didn't know the smith archetype was this widespread!
Yeah, it is crazy, it's one of the most universal archetypes!
The Ghost of High Heart is another crone figure.
Ygritte figured out pretty quickly that Jon was a Maiden ;;D
Sandor Clegane is also a Warrior who protects the children (Sansa and Arya), besides being closely related to the Stranger
And Tyrion is a Fool IMO, he doesnt fit like the Maiden like Jaime (who has only bedded Cersei and loves her)
Martin under utilises the crone. He has few older women in general. I always find it strange that Bran is settled upon as the crone. There is ONE true crone in the story: Lady Stone Heart. A former mother, she is undead (opened the door to death). Her eyes glow like the lantern. She is / could be a grandmother, if Robb impregnated Jeyne. In her weirwood hideout, shes like a woods witch, and crones are often witches.
Bran the crone 😂
Have you come up with a cringe name to call your fan base? It's a mark of a true UA-camr to name your group of fans with the most cringe name. If you are taking suggestions, I think "Zeta, Alpha, Azor Ahai is pretty funny. Unless that's insensitive to your Greek heritage. Then hopefully my ignorance is at least kinda funny.
I will find you one, but not after letters, you are not a Corona Variant :P
@@CompanyOfTheCatthat's fair, and I understand. My second vote is Puss in Books Club. Have a nice day 😃
Given that "The Company of the Cat" is a Sellsword Company in ADWD maybe she should call her Fans only Cats ... or Whiskers, the Captain of That Company is described with Whiskers😂
Would we not be kittens?
“The Cat Litter.” Is that cringe enough? 😏😉
Perhaps the constant cycle of white Walker and night king emergence always had a hero to stand against them….the Targaryen storyline is just the current one in dealing with white walkers….perhaps the Daynes had to deal with them at a prehistoric time….and all the other fair haired houses at other times. Maybe fire was incorporated into their storylines in some way….Dragons being the cause of fire for the Targaryens. For example if the falling star in the case of Dawn was probably a fiery meteor. And the original sword of the morning maybe dealt with the night king.
I don't agree about your interpretation of Persephone as the Maiden. That Deity was most likely a very old Goddess of Death that predates Hades and the Pantheon of Zeus, I recommend the Video of "Overly Sarcastic Productions" about: "Miscellaneous Myths: Hades and Persephone" There the whole theme is more explained.
Everything else: A very entertaining and explained Video. I had a lot of Fun watching it. One thing I want to add to it: Many Smith-Deitys are also Deitis of Volcanos, given your Theory about the Horns in this Story, especially Dragonbinder that is an interesting Connection.
Glad you liked it 😊
About Persephone, her name means literally the Maiden (Kore), after her abduction (meaning all the shit maidens are going through), the name became Persephone and became connected with the underworld. As Kore, she was connected with her mother, being young, innocent, ready to be fertile and all the things a maiden is associated with.
@@CompanyOfTheCat I know that Kore is another Name for Persephone as is probably Despoina.
My apologies, if my thought process doesn't make a lot of sense, but as a non-native English speaker, I have trouble sometimes finding the right words for my thought process and Google most of the time, translates it wrong.
I feel this dont worry