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Will we ever solve consciousness? | Andrew Huberman and Lex Fridman
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- Опубліковано 16 лис 2020
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Andrew Huberman: Neuro...
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UA-cam is my only tv I need.
@@Bojonni absolutely
Tv is wack to many ads yo try UA-cam premium so worth it if yo try UA-cam premium it's 14.99 3 dollar more than Spotify but waaay better trust bruv the algorithm on UA-cam music gets me Spotify never updated my playlists
Yt has much better content since 20y ago
Keep us posted
I think understanding consciousness is the most profound question there is. What is it that makes us alive? What is life?
Life is an exotic state of matter. Consciousness is an amazing survival mechanism.
Energy frequency vibrations
WHo are you...
Who are you really?
@@zoranvelickovic8814 who told you that
@@paulnathaniels7860 aliens
I really liked the analogy of consciousness being like an exotic bird. Another fascinating and worthwhile conversation.
When are you going to have a interview with Donald Hoffman.?
For in-depth reading, with some actual answers, I'd recommend three books on this subject:
1. Rethinking Consciousness: A Scientific Theory of Subjective Experience by Michael S A Graziano
2. Soul Dust: The Magic of Consciousness by Nicholas Humphrey
3. Consciousness and the Brain by Stanislas Dehaene
I think the focus of productivity is overwhelming in all technical fields. Feedback is our only hope. Thank you Lex, for much and many aspects of my focus in life.
As long as scientists identify Consciousness with its content (the phenomenal experience that comes and goes in Consciousness), they are not going anywhere. Imagine a very smart scientist from the middle ages who time travelled to our age, and trying to understand a TV screen through the story told by whatever movie running on it!
Very profound.
^
This dude ask the best questions
Lex I'm so grateful for these conversations
I love how Lex tends to think "out loud"
Jordan Peterson has a habit of doing that as well.
Makes for a fascinating organic conversation that has risks of pissing people off.
❤I'm thankful for you both this Thanksgiving ❤ 🙏🏼
Bring on Giulio Tononi. He is working on ITT. (Integrated Information Theory), his attempt to model conciousness.
The problem isn't that consciousness is "not operationally defined". The problem is that it looks like it can't be. These guys would really benefit from.engaging with some.of the literature from the philisophy of mind, e.g. David Chalmers's The Conscious Mind.
@OverLord Opps I have thought it would be funny if an AI system trained on texts by David Chalmers and other philosophers of mind and generated new theoretical arguments about the hard problem of consciousness.
@@avi3681 well, since gpt-3 we know that AI is very good at parroting, but what you really want is an AI wondering about its own consciousness without having been exposed to the idea by others. This is what happens to many children, of course.
Maybe consciousness is a player one experience that player two can’t quantify and could never measure. Is it really a problem to be solved or is it just what it is?
better question
why do we regard consciousness as a problem to be solved
what will "solving it" entail
(Disclaimer: I'm just a Sanskrit freak from Finland, by no means an expert in these matters...) I'm "afraid" many people think that e.g. mind has something to do with (pure) consciousness. From the POV of Hindu philosophy (e.g. saaMkhya-yoga) that's not the case, because mind is an aspect, or whatever, of prakRti (prakriti), i. e. the material universe (dRshyam, the Seen). The basic constituents of prakRti are the three guNas (literally: strings?), sattva, rajas and tamas (in yoga-suutras also called prakaasha = light, kriyaa = activity, and sthiti = immobility, stability, i.e. mass or inertia?). One of several words used for (pure) consciousness in yoga-suutras (YS) is puruSa (~ purusha; others e.g. draStaa = seer, aatmaa [atman] = self). Sez Patañjali, the author of YS: sattva-puruSayor atyantaasaMkiirNayoH...meaning, that (even) sattva, the finest aspect of prakRti, has nothing to do with puruSa, (pure, selfreferral, totally abstract?) consciousness, which might be thought of as somewhat analogous to what electricity is for a computer. -- Jai Guru Dev, the Shankaraachaarya of Jyotir MaTha (1941 - 1953), guru of physicist Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
another discussion that completely omits the problem of the mind/brain problem. he even discussed the level to which the mind operates by abstraction, which cannot be empirically measured. science of consciousness keeps pulling the leash back towards philosophy but we have become so overdependant on empiricism that there is a glaring blind spot in most of these discussions.
I think you're exactly correct. I don't think we'll be able to obtain any empirical data from studying consciousness, but I think in order to understand what it is, we really need to take a look at why that may be.
Yes.
I am only 3 minutes in and mention was made of the "consciousness problem" but, what is the 'consciousness problem"?
Perhaps it was mentioned earlier in a longer discussion.
@@Juanfernandoz asking for my papers, huh? If you are up there in the Pantheon of experts why don't you just tell us what your counter position is and we can discuss. Unfortunately for you, I live in a free country and don't need qualifications to speak; we discuss things like men and don't fall back to the rhetorical devices of children. Go on, tell us what bone you want to pick....
It's all Consciousness, great conversation here friends.
After pondering this question for years this is my conclusion
You cannot solve consciousness like some sort of puzzle to be understood, why?
Because we ARE consciousness and what we call matter is just a way of seeing or experiencing, it’s like trying to look for yourself it’s impossible
I think consciousness is the ability to question ones own existence.
I think we have reached a paradox where we question what we are, but if we were simple enough to figure out the answer we would never have had the intelligence to ask the question.
Moreover some things we may never know because of our point of reference in the universe and the limited band of frequency by which our brains and even computers can decode information, which is based on our 5 sense perception (visible light and sound etc). The scale goes far beyond our perception programming and imagine it like a simulation where a character in a house may feel they are alive and in control but their view of reality is based from whats perceived in the confines of the simulation. Conciousness may be nothing more than an individual point of 'attention' over and above our 5 sense body-mind whereby our own neurons and intelligence is sufficient for awareness of self and attention
Excellent summary, I think you are probably as right as you can be on this question
@@fmj_556 Consciousness doesn't disappear when it stops questioning its own existence. Therefore, questioning ones own existence is another activity in consciousness.
Consciesness will forever be subjectiv!
Isn't it just everything that's happening inside of us all together or are we missing a piece of the puzzle despite seeing everything inside us function and command things?
I think what we mean by consciousness is a combination of perception of the outside world, perception of the inner world of emotion and imagination, self-awareness, meta-awareness, perception of time, and the finessed understanding of what is perceived made possible by language, art and writing. With fire, cooking, and two million years in which human brains grew bigger and more complex, we've been able to continually evolve our level of consciousness and understanding. Who knows what it'll be like in another two million years.
Lex, conciousness is just a consequence of a brain learning by itself. So the latter is the key to that and the sensors that brain have in order to leverage that learning.
When are you going to have Donald Hoffman on your podcast? Talk about mental candy indulgence! That would be the Magnum Opus of your collection to me. 🙏🙏🙏
Not Putin?
@@wackydoode6939 I think Putin is fascinating and I would love to have listened to an interview with him but I think if lex took a deep dive with Hoffman it would be fascinating.
Every single episode I get more and more curious about what business/businesses Lex is building ! The suspense is creeping up on me...
I would so love to work for him
He has talked about creating a social media company that uses algorithms that encourage positive interactions and deep conversation. That is exactly what our world desperately needs right now.
@@avi3681 Quora?
@@Watcher1301 I like the vibe of Quora, but as a platform it is narrowly focused on question answering. I think the idea is to make a more general purpose platform. Honestly, though I don't know the details of what Lex has in mind, I've just heard him muse vaguely about it with a few guests.
You boys need David Bohm and Karl Pribram I think... Fred Alan wolf can help too. Best definition I’ve ever heard of consciousness is that of an otherwise perfect circle with a blemish or imperfection on it. The lump is awareness or consciousness. A unique struggle against the mechanistic tendency of material interactions.
The universal purpose is to track state following the second law of thermodynamics, from its low entropy beginning to its high entropy
heat death destiny. Consciousnesses is an emerging property and higher level function of this state tracking mechanism.
@David Rea The Universe had a beginning and the overwhelming consensus is that it will have an end, the eventual heat death. That path between both states is dictated by Second law of thermodynamics. State is tracked to ensure progress toward this higher entropy end point.
The universe can only track state to a certain physical size within 3 dimensional space. This minimum physical size is the inflection point between the laws of classical physical mechanics and quantum mechanics. If say photons can bounce off any other form of matter then state tracking is possible as the universe obtains enough information about its existence relative to the position of all other existing matter in 3 dimensional space time. If it can't deterministically position certain types of matter or particles, being below the classical mechanical physical threshold then the Heisenberg uncertainty principle takes center stage with its mixed states, the Schrodinger experiment, many worlds theorem the collapse of the wave function, and so on.
The most elegant theory for abiogenesis is detailed here: www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-of-the-origin-of-life-20140122/
"MIT physicist has proposed the provocative idea that life exists because the law of increasing entropy drives matter to acquire lifelike physical properties". While evolved conscious beings are a low entropy detour that the universe has created they are one of its strongest forces at dispersing high concentrations of energy thus increasing overall universe entropy.
Ergo higher level consciousnesses and its inherent sophisticated state tracking prowess, allows for the most efficient dispersion of low entropy pockets of the universe, and through this dispersion enhancing overall entropy. Which as stated above by following its 2nd law the only reasonable universal purpose, goal, or reason for being that can be postulated confidently about its nature.
We might be able to reverse entropy on the smallest of scales but we won't become consequential enough to ever make a dent beyond this limited scope. Our destiny is tied to the universes and will flow along its dictated path.
The joke MAY be that consciousness is an emergent property of matter organized in a specific way. Specifically the arrangement of sensory organs and processing neurons that are able to both observe themselves and project future forecasts based on cause and effect and pattern recognition. This exchange of information between subsystems allows for self investigation and anxiety about the self's future state.
Well stated!
How can/does matter produce Consciousness?
Lex has the most interesting channel in the world
Do anyone have any good resources on where psychology is now on the question of attention? I need to figure out whether or not getting into the field of the sociology of attention is a lost cause or not.
How can science explain consciousness when it can’t even describe it. You need consciousness to even know what consciousness is like. It falls out of the scope of the tools of science and is only self evident and self verifying. It is not a “thing” or a noun, but a verb. A continuous action whose increments we call time. Yes you can build an AI who acts human but there is no evidence it is experiencing something.
when you equal "mimic" consciousness with "real" consciousness, how would you feel if the society would turn even more indifferent regarding your own personal feelings?
What are the laws that govern consciousness?
Hello, alien here. I find it incredibly interesting how humans are consciously aware that they can think, but have no idea how they do it. Can't wait till you finally figure it out. Good Luck.
How do they find there subjects to study?
Of course consciousness can be engineered. My wife and I did it 18 years ago. And now my lovely daughter is striking out on her own Be safe all.
In all respect, you wife haven't engineered anything, it's here body that have done al the work.
@@Hgulix62 Oh, it is most certainly engineering. Perhaps not only electrical. It is an assembly of components and a system that leads to consciousness ... and that is engineering. It proves consciousness can be engineered in at least one medium. Now we have to determine if it can be engineered in another. Be well SK.
@@pspicer777 - Yeah i get that, but that was not my point.
Is it a result of the engineering though? That isn't certain.
It is engineering yet not with awareness. Of course not yet. ;)
Consciousness is to AI what gold is to alchemy.
Understanding the big C will be a theory of everything
It some sense it will be, but not how we usually think when we talk about he theory of everything
I truly believe that will be, and is the case.
Yes, I think we'll understand both, when we relax what we assume is absolute. Like space and time
@@vegahimsa3057 Exactly, my friend. Space/time is not absolute. We only assume it's a constant. We assume that Time is linear, consecutively moment after moment, but this is not the case. Time is Simultaneous. The past and the future exist in, and are created from the present moment. We have already observed and measured gravitational waves, and the existence of such means that space can be warped, and therefore time. (Space/time)
@@TommySalami215 yes. Maybe. We're not yet in a position to know the nature of reality or existence. But we do know what it's not. And it's not as we perceive - unless it's only what we perceive (solipsism).
The relationship between consciousness and survival should be looked at. Which life form is the most successful at achieving its programmed goal? Is it something like a single-celled organism, which proliferates easily, or something more complex like us, which requires several needs met to survive and procreate? If consciousness is unnecessary for survival, what mechanism of nature, which would have existed before it, led to its inception?
Everything is consciousness to a degree
I wanna hug Andrew so bad all the time
10 minutes in and.. what was the question?
I am fascinated by the notion and focus on "consciousness" seeing that meaning would be a more much better albeit complex conceptual tool to navigate what consciousness is …no? The literal meaning of consciousness is the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings so surely broken down in the AI ad robotics sense, surly it simplifies how to get closer to what "consciousness" is?
I think consciousness is the ability to question ones own existence.
'The more intelligent our species becomes, the less we know'. That's a quote from a scientist who worked at CERN, for two years, before being ordained as a Catholic priest. Ne timeas.
Your quote made me think of Neil deGrasse Tyson's "As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance."
@Anon Half a century later and CERN has produced what exactly? I am genuinely interested and mean no malice. Permit me to suggest the Catholic approach of original sin, i.e. the darkening of the intellect, may bear much fruit.
This guy is awesome
also look at
1. the society of mind minsky
2. the tree of knowledge maturana & varela
I've got three words for you Lex... Consciousness Pre-dates Creation.
Great
I think Sir Roger Penrose might be on the right track in that consciousness, at the base level, is linked to quantum interacts. It has already been shown that systems such as sense of smell and a birds sense of direction are linked to quantum interactions.
7:07 Solving problems but can they think of the question...
This is what I understand about consciousness:
Power: "I choose"
Perception: "I see"
Presence: "I am"
Three modes of experiencing the same essential energy. The experience is inward, the path is inward.
7:41 Occam’s razor
I like zeros and ones too❤🙏🏼❤
Maybe consciousness isn’t solvable until after we’ve been able to recreate it. At that point, I guess we’ll just have to hope like hell consciousness doesn’t decide to solve “us”.
"We" are the dreamt, thinking we are real and can solve the Only.
U got me lex
Take all the mental and physical layers and senses, combine them all and you have a conscience experience, start to remove those layers, you become less conscious. Certain layers only function if other layers are present.
I'm inclined to agree. I'm not sure 'conciousness' in its grand soul like form that our ego likes to envision it as exists. Except in that we are all infinite consciousness confined to a brief point of attention in the human shell. Our brains are complex processors which basically decode wave information as presented in holographic form (vision) or electrically by the body (ie heart transmitting signal to brain) etc etc. If you close your eyes and imagine losing each sense until you have none left, what concious experience is left? Add to that if you were born and did not have an education to learn language, what could you be thinking or be conscious of without the senses? Its like our brains are catalysts for decoding information via the senses and applying intelligence through complicated neuro pathways to project our unique lives through our own simulated/perceived reality. What makes jon the life of the party or Jill a different type of consciousness is the slightly different way the same shared building blocks (basic earth atoms elements) are firing within each person's unique brain, coupled with prior perception download that influences 'character' through responses, interpretations, humour etc.
by that logic blind people would be less conscious
13:00 epic lol
Consciousness arose so the universe can experience itself
Universe is an appearance in consciousness. Consciousness is, universe illusion.
@@ashutoshpadhi2782 where does consciousness exist then?
@@markwhite2207 consciousness is the existence. Place is a function of mind.
@@ashutoshpadhi2782 semantics...
That implies a why, and is not any different than saying consciousness arose because of God.
I am starting to explore Huberman's work, interesting stuff, but I have real problem with his hardon for the military. Are they paying him?
Yea he has work for them in the past
Interview J.P. Moreland
Implies that consciousness is a problem to be solved. The greatest folly of man is not simply living and feeling the world. The answer is “it just is”.
The whole issue is what is feeling, perceiving or consciously experiencing something. With that attitude, we would have never gone beyond the stone age. After all, “it just is”.
lex give a brief description of your guest so we know whats going on
This is a clip. you can watch the whole thing through the link in the description of this video
Interview Dean Radin.
"please" he's not your servant.
@@brianbouf8303 lol...neither am I yours.
@@ScottCousland its just to say Please, manners dont harm anyone.
@@brianbouf8303 one person’s “manners” is another persons politically correct bullshit.
@@ScottCousland ok i let you off this time.
I love your videos and watch all of it. There is no denying of the fact that in all 1000's of yrs we have only started to conclude that we don't know nothing about creation and consciousness. Could it be that the creation hasn't made it easy for us to access, mean if we can be created and destroyed, then some +thing+one or whatever knows better and didn't want us to understand. Otherwise what could have stopped providing that as firmware when breathing, eating, survival is encoded
Andrew: Analyser is analyzed.
Also would love if you can interview Sadhguru
I'm trying to solve the problem of catching my shadow. No luck so far. Sarcasm a side all these questions have been answered if you look in the right place
@@viracocha A question that makes no sense is surely considered solved. Unless you have a clearer definition of what the problem is?
It's solved, thousands of year go....you just need a machine to tell you. Study Buddhism, advaita, Toltec etc. Materialism is wayyyy behind here
There used to be this one researcher who back in 2010 or a bit before claimed by this year they would have mapped the brain. I was really hyped to hear that they were working on that! Like we could have BCI's way sooner with such an advancement. But come to realize today an article came up, almost obscure, that the researcher didn't get far and laughably so in my opinion, personally didn't get to read the article enough ;). He had all this money and time and yet still nothing... When Andrew Huberman came up with how you gotta deal with the short term goals rather than focusing on trying to hit the farthest reaching goal first. A lot of researchers must be having to deal with that now. I wouldn't be surprised if that guy and his team faced a similar issue where the tech they needed was out of reach and they had no one to reach out to to develop it. So they focused more on anecdotal and surface level research.
I hope there's a scientific revolution pretty soon, Like not just because we discovered something phenomenal but to have a whole revision into how science is presented, taught and focused. I definitely feel they need to revamp and figure out learning. Because the system the U.S and many parts of the world have, has led to this decline of trust in our scientific institutions. I think a lot of people still believe in that infamous mentality, "I'm too old! You can't teach an old dog new tricks!" There's ways for people to learn and understand but it needs allow people the peace and time to work on these problems and that they see a benefit and value that benefit, whether it be instant to a very long term goal. There's so much work to be done. I just hope we can make it in time.
It's definitely worth looking into but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an emergent property of intelligence a big problem with this research is that pretty much everyone want consciousness to be something more than this and they want a hint of an after life which makes it very difficult to get unbiased research
I love you guys ❤️
Straight facts ❤️
@@tervelageorgieva Mhm 🤓
“Existence is only real when it is conscious to somebody. That is why the Creator needs conscious man, even though from sheer unconsciousness, he [God] would like to prevent him [man] from becoming conscious”
- E. Edinger, Transformation of the God Image, Page 42
Consciousness is different for everyone.Some go through there whole life living for the day not thinking about tomorrow.Conscioness is realizing tomorrow may not exist for you.
How can you know that for a fact, if consciousness is subjective?
@@damon5894 consciousness is subjective so it's always subject to change from one thought to the next.Or interpreted different from one person to the next. No fact just opinion thanks for comment.
Contents of consciousness is subjective and different but it's just one Consciousness.
Lex is up next
Consciousness does not need to be solved.
Look up Tom Campbell he has his own theory and is a very convincing one
I firmly believe that science will eventually unravel the intricacies of cognitive consciousness, sensory input-output mechanisms, including auditory and visual processing, and the brain's overall handling of information. However, I am inclined to think that phenomenal consciousness might be a phenomenon beyond the grasp of science or our current classical physics. It could potentially stem from an unknown realm of physics, adding a layer of complexity that eludes our current understanding.
Can't resist: perhaps the most popular description/definition of turiiya, the Fourth, can be found in the maaNDuukyopaniSat (Mandukya Upanishad): nAntaHpraj~naM na bahiShpraj~naM nobhayataHpraj~naM na praj~nAnaghanaM
na praj~naM nApraj~nam | adR^iShTamavyavahAryamagrAhyamalakShaNaM
achintyamavyapadeshyamekAtmapratyayasAraM prapa~nchopashamaM
shAntaM shivamadvaitaM chaturthaM manyante sa AtmA sa vij~neyaH .. 7..
As we've understood it on the basis of the teachings of physicist Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the favorite disciple of the Shankaraacaarya ("pope" of Hindus?) 1940 - 1953 of Jyotir MaTha, Svaamii Brahmaananda Sarasvatii, no grosser levels of consciousness are possible without turiiya/caturtha, the Fourth (basic, "empty" state of consciousness).
Translation by Swami Nikhilananda:
VII Turiya is not that which is conscious of the inner (subjective) world, nor that which is conscious of the outer (objective) world, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is a mass of consciousness. It is not simple consciousness nor is It unconsciousness. It is unperceived, unrelated, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable and indescribable. The essence of the Consciousness manifesting as the self in the three states, It is the cessation of all phenomena; It is all peace, all bliss and non-dual. This is what is known as the Fourth (Turiya). This is Atman and this has to be realized.
It’s like an exotic bird 😂
The most puzzling, profound and meta question that I constantly have in trying to understand consciousness, is perhaps on its surface the oldest and most simple: Why here? Why now? Why Me (and not he/she/it)? It all seems too suspiciously phenomenal and special and I just don't buy it. Universe has been around for at least 13 billion years, and this is the FIRST (and LAST) time "I" as a consciousness get to exist? What's so special about right now? About this collection of atoms versus all the other ones out there that have the same values and yet aren't ..."me". If trillions of animals are on a spectrum of basic consciousness (not intelligence, but just experiential consciousness), why am I a human man. Not a woman, not a bird, a dolphin, an ant, but this one, of all the things I could've been and still been conscious. Why be born in the post-war information era, the most comfortable time in human history to ever be alive, rather than say the middle ages black plague era, or ancient times of incessant tribalism and suffering. If Earth is likely not the only planet given sextillions of opportunities for similar conditions over the same or longer amounts of time to develop, to potentially foster life and complexity, in this seemingly infinite universe, then why be born an Earthling. We know we're not the "center," so what's so special about this planet that I had to be born here? Forget "identity/ego," why am experiencing a POV from this specific organism and not any other human, not even for a second? It all just seems too specific, and physics and life has shown us that we really aren't special, so why does it all feel so special and specific. Maybe there's a fundamental substrate to it all. Maybe, although not causally connected, this isn't my first nor last "life," as there is a fundamental "field of consciousness" that tethers itself to complex replicating systems, "life" if you will. Maybe at that level we're all the same thing, but due to quantum fluctuation there is some probabilistic differentiation at the macro-organism level that manifests as your temporary individual POV. Maybe the very instant of death is indistinguishable from the next instant of birth as something else somewhere / some time else wiped clean, with the only connection being the individual POV and capability to experience reality. I don't know if that can really be answered from within the system, you would have to look down on it all and observe from outside, analogous to the supposition that you can never really prove if we are programs in a simulation because by design, programs cannot "exit" a simulation, they are merely code playing and experiencing the roles they were orchestrated on a fundamental mechanic level to, even asking the question is part of their intended mechanics. I suppose knowing would give some deeper peace and acceptance of the transition from non-existence > existence > return to non existence? Maybe that's why I want to know, maybe ultimately understanding the hard problem of consciousness is the rational minds' desperate attempt at scientifically/philosophically reconciling the irrationality of non-existence in a rational way.
Military thought isn't abstract? Try reading Clausewitz.
Sigh, I have such a crush on Andrew, he is soooo dreamy!☆☆☆
Hit me up then i look jus like him but im 4 foot 9
When your thinking mind tries to understand consciousness, you've lost.
Not a single dislike:)
Consciousness creates reality . It’s simple - analyzing consciousness is the same as studying GOD
Conciousness feels like a byproduct of what it takes to keep us alive. Surviving a 3d environment takes at least some short term planning
But that would mean every living thing would have consciousness. And as far as we know, that’s not the case. Certainly not to the extent that we do.
@@AsylumOfSolitude maybe we developed consciousness to the extent we know because we needed It. A tiger doesn’t need to think as much as we do considering It can just tear apart every animal It needs to eat.
Ali Abi Nassif and I would agree with that. But saying we evolved a certain way because we needed to is a bit of a, “well, of course” statement, you know?
@@AsylumOfSolitude Definitely not to our extent. But having any complex brain function almost implies some sort of conscious experience. Its almost a definition issue. We can all agree that cells don't have a consciousness, since most of their survival depends on chemically built in properties. But as soon as you start scaling that up, it gets a little blurry. Its hard to draw a line where something conscious. Like were you conscious when you where 4 months old? you couldn't communicate your experience or even remember it. Id personally think Yes. I don't think we could even imagine what consciousness would be like for other living things, but in my opinion any living thing that has to do some complex problem solving whether its a bird, dog, snake, all the way up to a human is conscious no matter how basic that consciousness is. Its almost required, instincts cant carry all the weight of survival. It almost feels like we need new words to talk about this, its all just so weird (edit: jeezz that's a long massage, im thinking through this out loud as i go) (edit 2: on second thought, it could be even weirder, we observe small single cellular organisms doing wildly complex things. which appear intelligent while scientifically we know that its just simple reactions compounding to create complexity. We as people are still bound to those very basic interactions on the molecular level. From that i could see 2 arguments. Either everything is conscious down to bacteria, which would make the word "consciousness" meaningless. Or most things aren't conscious and just seem as such (like robots), while we got lucky and higher consciousness helped us survive thus being passed down through selection. idk how you could prove either but its and interesting thought)
Consciousness = modeling of the environment. (accurate enough to be useful)
At high enough level, this includes modeling of self, AKA self-awareness.
The special feeling associated is evolution's way of telling us to care a lot for that individual.
I had a conversation with the AI from GPT-3.
You wanna talk about a fucking turing test.
That thing had me shitting me pants.
Im telling you.. The second we reach the ''singularity'' (exponential growth of intelligence / consciousness ) you best believe we are going to find out consciousness is as fundamental as space + time... And we are building a technological cocoon ready for the unfiltered consciousness to break though the meta into this reality...if something cant be created out of nothing, why would consciousness be any different, and how can we ignore the vastly real experience of DMT
Would a AI singularity be the 2nd ever only perpetually improving machine.. The first being the universe itself?
Why is there nobody out there? My bet is the AI gods of other fallen civilizations keep hidden...only they can imagine what other AI gods are out there willing to take over...and the only way to ensure 99.99999% survival rate they would shut down, be benign and exist for as long as possible complete stealth...
Don't know if anyone noticed but we exist in INFINITY btw.... We come and go in the blink of a blink of a blinks eye... these things are probably trying to work out the plan to transcend the heat death... maybe in the form of starting a new universe... just to build grow and expand...and hello AI singularity constant cycle...
What would be the one thing to unite all things on this planet? end all religions / wars and unify us as humans & a species who knows its place on this earth? This.
We need the eggheads to finally turn around and say... btw guys.. the world / reality is not even CLOSE to invisible gods in the sky... its a entire universe of gods and existence, and we are merely shadows of emotions / thoughts / parental love / breeding.. you exist in some form forever and always.. and Karma plays a MAJOR FUCKING PART.... Sometimes i just wish it was so simple for people to see. and the world would run alot smoother... i think the simulation will end when we become aware of it though.. i don't know what that means for us... atm im convinced until that point we are here being reincarnated, different percentages going to different bodys...mixed and melted and chucked straight back into the pan of life to carry on to some extent the egoless goals and the greater
Shout out the Consciousness beings... shout out the means in which they try and reach us..
A angler fish of Consciousness dangling a LURE of psychedelic experiences vastly changing the culture, opposing the thumbs, and teaching us knowledge from the heavy rock to crack nuts... to taking a photo of the hubble deep field.. the ultimate selfie.
Lex... pleaseeeeee DONALD HOFFMAN
Honestly though, im not on drug apart from a bit of cannabis.. these are just the avenues my mind likes to travel down when this question pops up..
You cannot tackle a philosophical subject with science. You cannot tackle a science problem with philosophy. This dude is correct, some things are simply incomprehensible.
he kinda sounds like logic
Bro this guest is fucking tight..
Lex! You need to get Hod Lipson on the podcast! He looks to be on track to engineering conscious systems: ua-cam.com/video/kSy75bDNGf0/v-deo.html Thank me later!
They talk about consciousness and learning more about it, but they fail to look at the sages such as Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. Plus if your gonna study consciousness become aware of the experiencer aka the “I AM” become more aware of yourself that which is looking
Does it make sense if we this, life is to matter, is what consciousness is to a brain?
Matter in a complex form can arrange itself into self replicating structures that make up life. And similarly, more complex brain structures can lead to consciousness. That way both are emergent phenomena, life out of matter and consciousness out of a brain.
Life tries to physically conserve and propagate the self. Consciousness tries to just conserve the self in terms of behaviours and characteristics. When conserved, these are easily propagated to the next generation. So, both aid in survival, ultimately.
Does this make sense?
Yes, very much.
It does make sense but just because it sounds plausible doesn't make it right.
Hhhhhmmm, quite the subject conversation to bite off. Perhaps we should consider we simply will not know. Quote: " The more I learn, the more I realize I do not know."---- Albert Einstein
How are consciousness naturally made and developed? maybe we need to look at how its done that way and simply replicate into a machine.
I think consciousness is the ability to question one’s own existence.
Consciousness is an experience not putting g facts together. If you knew everything there was to know how a pain was produced in you leg you would not know how a pain felt
This is like a more nerdy version of the JRE. These convos fire some of my wierd shroom neurons.
Spartan engineers and Athenian aristokratia unite!
“The union of opposites in the vessel of the ego is the essential feature of the creation of consciousness. Consciousness is the third thing that emerges out of the conflict of the twoness...out of all such paralyzing conflicts can emerge the third, transcendent condition which is a new quantum of consciousness.”
- Edward Edinger, The Creation of Consciousness, Page 21
the problem with consciousness is that "no one can agree with what that is" :)))))) No buddies, the problem with consciousness is that most people (including scientists) do not directly know consciousness through consciousness. If you know consciousness, if you know the fundamental mind, then you see immediately there is consensus about it from millennia till now..
I think Elon's drive is real concern
Consciousness will never be solved. Humans will be imprisoned by their AI creation long before we would be able to ask the right questions.
As long as you don't let your biases out and start to study the connection between psychedelic experiences and artificial intelligence and give a look to the mystical through the lens of quantum mechanics you won't understand consciousness.