I believe you're thinking of Marshal Lannes at the siege of Regensberg. When his men were hesitant to launch a 4th assault on the walls, he grabbed a ladder and said, "I will let you see that I was a grenadier before I was a marshal and still am one." After threatening to lead the next assault, his aides promptly restrained him and the French took the city. Little accounts like these remind me why I love this colorful period.
At 9:54 and 25:12, the plumes for British companies were red over white for line companies, all-white for grenadier companies, and all light troops(incl. rifles) had green plumes.
Dont know why yt sent me this video, but having spent quite some years in the french foreign legion our epaulets are green and red and when presenting to an officer part was 'fonction grenadier-voltigeur' thanks for the video, very informative,
I’ve done some research and the average height back then (using exact modern measures) was 5’6. Grenadiers had to be 5’8.9 ft tall. The French measures of the time used different numbering systems, 5’4 written by the old standard means 5’8. Napoleon was written as 5’2 at the time which is 5’6ish These people weren’t midgits 😂 but certainly smaller over all.
The ammo pouch for the voltigeurs had a horn, and a grenade for the grenadiers (for the button counters). Voltigeurs would usually have green or yellow, but sometimes green/red, or yellow/red depending on the regiment (line or light). Red/Red reserved for the grenadiers/carabiniers, naturally.
The Prussians formed combined batallions from two regiment's grenadiers as they did at least since the first Silesian War. But since 1813 or 1814 they formed grenadier regiments. But in 1815, I think, they stayed at home. Since this was accounted for regarding the strength of regiments, the line infantry regiments had full strength and firepower without them.
Prussian army of 1813 went to war with six combined Grenadier battalions who were attached to each Brigade. They were heavily engaged and suffered heavy casualties during the wars of liberation. Only in the 1815 (Waterloo) campaign did they remain at home.
@@darrenashton2485 Yes, that's what I tried to explain. I'm not a native speaker, so my English might be sometimes misunderstood. I meant, that since 1813 or 1814 the grenadiers stayed together as own regiments.
If I remember correctly a "Demi-Brigade" was a short lived replacement for the aristocratic "Regiment". Once revolutionary fervor died down they reverted to "regiments". Of course I could be wrong. It's been so long and my memory isn't what it used to be.
I think you meant Lefebvre at Siege of Danzig. This is the quote I saved because I was impressed just like you! He was sent to besiege Gdansk (Danzig), knowing nothing of that type of warfare. Finally the Russo-Prussian garrison made a sortie in force. Lefebvre went flailing happily into the middle of the uproar, pushing aside the grenadiers who tried to shield him: "Come on my lads ! This I understand !" 😂
@@NapoleonicWargaming Yeah! Well, on the side note. Great video as always, I don't play with sets at all but as a historian and with love for Napoleon and Grand Armee I follow your channel and watch your videos with delight! Keep it up! 👌🏻
Interesting video. I read that as units got mauled fusilliers were put into the elite companies (apparently ut was more important to keep their numbers up) so after a while the height thing got messed up.
Flankers in the polish cavalry (1) Leyendo “”Mis memorias de España”” de Kajetan Wojciechowski (( Regimiento de lanceros de la Legión del Vistula)) encontré varias veces referencias a los “flanqueadores”: While reading Kajetan Wojciechowski ‘s (( Vistula legion cavalryregiment)) “My memoirs of Spain” I found several times the term “flankers”: Page 44, footnote 79 “”En cada regimiento de caballería de línea había ocho compañías, entre ellas una de élite y otra de flanqueadores. En la de élite (llamada a veces ordinariamente también de granaderos) se intentaba concentrar ... a los soldados con mayor grado , experiencia y valor en el combate”” “”Each Regiment of line cavalry had eight companies ((troops)), among them one of the elite and other of flankers. In the first one -usually called grenadiers- were the best troopers, in rank, experience and bravery in combat””. Page 48 “”A finales de 1807 marchamos hacia el Rin. En Erfurt mi escuadrón fue vestido con los uniformes de los ulanos y dividido entre las ocho compañías de nuestro regimiento. Mi mala suerte quiso ir que cada compañía tuviera un sargento primero, salvo la octava, en la que fui colocado como sargento de caballería y jefe de la compañía, y a la que como castigo eran enviados los soldados de todo el regimiento “. “” Ending 1807 we marched to the Rhine. At Erfurt ((footnote 100 : probably referring to Hanau, can’t be Erfurt in Turingia)) my troop was dressed with uhlans uniforms and divided among the eight companies of our regiment. My bad luck was that every company had a first sergeant, except the eighth. I was sent there as a cavalry sergeant and company’s commander, leading all regiment’s soldiers punished there. (( it was a sort of a penal unit )).”” PRONTO TRADUCIRÉ MÁS MORE SOON
I’m not 100% sure but I think the french had nine companies before 1808. Again not sure but I think the Voltigeur company was added in 1804 bringing the number of companies up to nine thou it is possible that I’m just talking rubbish and that they only had eight companies. Edit: just looked it up they had nine companies but the grenadiers were detached during wartime to form a reserve bringing the total number of companies in the battalion down to eight. I do think thou that detaching the grenadiers slowly came out of fashion in the french army during that time.
Flankers in the polish cavalry (2) Page 55 footnote 134 “”Se trata de una compañía y no de un escuadrón de flanqueadores. Formaba parte de cada regimiento de caballería, con el último número (ocho) con el fin de proteger a su destacamento (se podría decir, un destacamento ligero). De manera no oficial, una compañía de flanqueadores estaba compuesta sobre todo por los soldados del regimiento que tenían problemas disciplinarios y que tuvieran que expiar sus culpas en servicios difíciles y de alto riesgo. Durante una guerra, las compañías de flanqueadores de los regimientos de caballería eran las primeras que empezaban cada batalla y normalmente se marchaban las últimas del campo de batalla. Cuando el regimiento permanecía en sus posiciones, los flanqueadores penetraban las líneas delante de las líneas principales o provocaban al enemigo con el fuego, todo el tiempo “flanqueando”, es decir actuando en orden disperso ante las líneas de los ejércitos enemigos. Atacaban los flancos del enemigo, protegían el frente, las alas y la retaguardia de sus propios escuadrones. No paraban de vigilar si su propio regimiento no había sido rodeado o sorprendido con un ataque inesperado. Del campo de batalla se retiraban paso a paso, or detrás del regimiento, y además tenían que estar muy atentos a cada movimiento por parte del enemigo. También protegían las expediciones para conseguir el forraje para otros escuadrones. En general, realizaban las tareas más ingratas y agotadoras, tanto durante la guerra como durante la paz.””” “”” It was a flankers company, no a squadron. Part of each cavalry regiment with the last number (eight) to protect its detachment (sort of a light detachment). Unofficially a flankers company was composed mainly by all the soldiers of the regiment with discipline problems, who shall wash their guilts in difficult and high risk tasks. At war the flankers companies from cavalry regiments were the first to begin each battle and usually the last to left the battleground. When the regiment was stationary, the flankers penetrate the lines in front of the main lines, or provoking the enemy with fire, all the time “flanking”, that is in a loose order before the enemy lines. They attacked the enemy flanks, protect their front, wings and rear of their own squadrons. They ceaselessly watch for enemy envolvments or surprises with unexpected attacks. They retire step by step after their regiment , being watchful every enemy movement. They also protect the forage incursions to obtain other squadrons grain. Perform all hard duties, both at war and peace times. “”
Hello! I like the video but I had a question, can each company of a battalion act as independent units like in Napoleon Total War or do they always have to be together with the other companies?
Not always, but usually. It could be possible to get all the flank companies of a brigade together to form 'combined grenadiers' or 'combined lights'. It would usually be the former though for a special task such as storming a defended position
Thanks for the video. Apologies if in one of your videos working my way through them however just wanted to check basing a battalion. For 28mm assume 24 centre and 12 flank in groups of 6 for the 6 companies. Is this standard or can you have smaller companies as long as frontage is correct. Thought getting colours right would be sticking point however haven't got past bases. Cheers
@@NapoleonicWargaming Cheers. Catching up on your videos. Great stuff, going to need to get wider range of paints for more mixed French and British Peninsular war units.
The height stated for Grenadiers as 173.5cm does not convert to 5'4", it's about 5'8". It likely a typo and should read 163.5cm as I think 5'8" is too tall for the time and 5'4" is more realistic.
It’s not a typo, 5’8 was roughly as common as 6’ today. It’s not unreasonable to have that as a height requirement. Grenadiers were supposed to be taller and stronger, and 5’4 is way below average even then. 5’8 is slightly above so it makes perfect sense
@@rhysnichols8608 173.5cm does not equal 5'4" so one of the figures stated on the site is clearly wrong. I just had a quick look at the Napoleon-series website and there are a couple of references to the height of French Grenadiers as being 5'5".
@@shcomptech It depends what conversion the site is using, French measurements of the time are different to modern. Napoleon is often described as 5’2 but he was 5’6 by modern standards.
@@rhysnichols8608 Yes, if that's the case then the modern 173.5cm would be about 5'4" in old French pied and pounce which is about 5'8" in feet and inches today.
As I said, it depends what measurements the site uses. I always use modern day measurements. There is no typo, 173.5cm is just under 5’9 This height is average today, but was considered tall in the early 1800s. So it’s a reasonable height requirement for grenadiers. It would be like having 6’1 as the requirement for a modern elite unit. 5’8 as we know it was written as 5’5 in 1800s French measurements, so when the site says grenadiers had to be 173.5cm and then says it’s equal to 5’5 it’s referring to French measures of the time Essentially 173cm (5’8) is perfectly reasonable for a tall mans company back in a time when 5’6 was the average. I don’t think there’s a typo it’s just a confusion on which measurements you use.
In Black Powder rules if you remove grenadiers you don't loose 2 hand-to-hand and 1 shooting... The rules say you only loose 1 hand-to-hand and nothing about shooting (Albion Triumphant vol 2. p.119)
@@NapoleonicWargaming AT1 p. 107 still -1hth only. The same in Clash of Eagles p. 51 still -1hth ;) You might have mistaken this with reducing battalion size (standard to small) which reduces 2hth and 1shooting ;)
I believe you're thinking of Marshal Lannes at the siege of Regensberg. When his men were hesitant to launch a 4th assault on the walls, he grabbed a ladder and said, "I will let you see that I was a grenadier before I was a marshal and still am one." After threatening to lead the next assault, his aides promptly restrained him and the French took the city.
Little accounts like these remind me why I love this colorful period.
You beat me to it! What a great story - I totally agree that these tales really make the period an incredible one to wargame and learn about!
That's the one I was thinking of!
At 9:54 and 25:12, the plumes for British companies were red over white for line companies, all-white for grenadier companies, and all light troops(incl. rifles) had green plumes.
Dont know why yt sent me this video, but having spent quite some years in the french foreign legion our epaulets are green and red and when presenting to an officer part was 'fonction grenadier-voltigeur' thanks for the video, very informative,
I’ve done some research and the average height back then (using exact modern measures) was 5’6.
Grenadiers had to be 5’8.9 ft tall.
The French measures of the time used different numbering systems, 5’4 written by the old standard means 5’8.
Napoleon was written as 5’2 at the time which is 5’6ish
These people weren’t midgits 😂 but certainly smaller over all.
The ammo pouch for the voltigeurs had a horn, and a grenade for the grenadiers (for the button counters). Voltigeurs would usually have green or yellow, but sometimes green/red, or yellow/red depending on the regiment (line or light). Red/Red reserved for the grenadiers/carabiniers, naturally.
The Prussians formed combined batallions from two regiment's grenadiers as they did at least since the first Silesian War. But since 1813 or 1814 they formed grenadier regiments. But in 1815, I think, they stayed at home. Since this was accounted for regarding the strength of regiments, the line infantry regiments had full strength and firepower without them.
Prussian army of 1813 went to war with six combined Grenadier battalions who were attached to each Brigade. They were heavily engaged and suffered heavy casualties during the wars of liberation. Only in the 1815 (Waterloo) campaign did they remain at home.
@@darrenashton2485 Yes, that's what I tried to explain. I'm not a native speaker, so my English might be sometimes misunderstood. I meant, that since 1813 or 1814 the grenadiers stayed together as own regiments.
No gaming lately, a little too late to paint- but this is a nice fit Thank you. I appreciate your videos
If I remember correctly a "Demi-Brigade" was a short lived replacement for the aristocratic "Regiment". Once revolutionary fervor died down they reverted to "regiments". Of course I could be wrong. It's been so long and my memory isn't what it used to be.
That's right. It's a term that caused me much confusion in my younger days!
There is one at least still in French service, the DBLE in Djibouti, Foreign Legion.
Great video. Really helpful. Think it was marshal lannes who came from the grenadiers.
I think you meant Lefebvre at Siege of Danzig. This is the quote I saved because I was impressed just like you! He was sent to besiege Gdansk (Danzig), knowing nothing of that type of warfare. Finally the Russo-Prussian garrison made a sortie in force. Lefebvre went flailing happily into the middle of the uproar, pushing aside the grenadiers who tried to shield him: "Come on my lads ! This I understand !" 😂
Haha! I think you're right! What a legend!
@@NapoleonicWargaming Yeah! Well, on the side note. Great video as always, I don't play with sets at all but as a historian and with love for Napoleon and Grand Armee I follow your channel and watch your videos with delight! Keep it up! 👌🏻
Fantastic video. Great explanation. Helps a neophyte like me get a grip on this subject. Thanks!
What a lovely channel, I’ve just subscribed
Ohhhh lovely isn't it so lovely isn't it lovely ah so lovely lovely lovely lovely lovely
Interesting video. I read that as units got mauled fusilliers were put into the elite companies (apparently ut was more important to keep their numbers up) so after a while the height thing got messed up.
You're pretty mutch correct on the Voltijay (voltiger) pronunciation front.
I think it was Lannes who was a Grenadier and I think he did something similar at Aspen Esslingen
Informative and entertaining. Many thanks.
Great stuff, Tim! Thanks for sharing.
Flankers in the polish cavalry (1)
Leyendo “”Mis memorias de España”” de Kajetan Wojciechowski (( Regimiento de lanceros de la Legión del Vistula)) encontré varias veces referencias a los “flanqueadores”:
While reading Kajetan Wojciechowski ‘s (( Vistula legion cavalryregiment)) “My memoirs of Spain” I found several times the term “flankers”:
Page 44, footnote 79 “”En cada regimiento de caballería de línea había ocho compañías, entre ellas una de élite y otra de flanqueadores. En la de élite (llamada a veces ordinariamente también de granaderos) se intentaba concentrar ... a los soldados con mayor grado , experiencia y valor en el combate””
“”Each Regiment of line cavalry had eight companies ((troops)), among them one of the elite and other of flankers. In the first one -usually called grenadiers- were the best troopers, in rank, experience and bravery in combat””.
Page 48 “”A finales de 1807 marchamos hacia el Rin. En Erfurt mi escuadrón fue vestido con los uniformes de los ulanos y dividido entre las ocho compañías de nuestro regimiento. Mi mala suerte quiso ir que cada compañía tuviera un sargento primero, salvo la octava, en la que fui colocado como sargento de caballería y jefe de la compañía, y a la que como castigo eran enviados los soldados de todo el regimiento “.
“”
Ending 1807 we marched to the Rhine. At Erfurt ((footnote 100 : probably referring to Hanau, can’t be Erfurt in Turingia)) my troop was dressed with uhlans uniforms and divided among the eight companies of our regiment. My bad luck was that every company had a first sergeant, except the eighth. I was sent there as a cavalry sergeant and company’s commander, leading all regiment’s soldiers punished there. (( it was a sort of a penal unit )).””
PRONTO TRADUCIRÉ MÁS
MORE SOON
Interesting stuff thank you 👍
I’m here. I don’t know why yet.
Very nice work could you do a video on just the British elite troops, all the best, Garry
I’m not 100% sure but I think the french had nine companies before 1808. Again not sure but I think the Voltigeur company was added in 1804 bringing the number of companies up to nine thou it is possible that I’m just talking rubbish and that they only had eight companies.
Edit: just looked it up they had nine companies but the grenadiers were detached during wartime to form a reserve bringing the total number of companies in the battalion down to eight. I do think thou that detaching the grenadiers slowly came out of fashion in the french army during that time.
Flankers in the polish cavalry (2)
Page 55 footnote 134 “”Se trata de una compañía y no de un escuadrón de flanqueadores. Formaba parte de cada regimiento de caballería, con el último número (ocho) con el fin de proteger a su destacamento (se podría decir, un destacamento ligero). De manera no oficial, una compañía de flanqueadores estaba compuesta sobre todo por los soldados del regimiento que tenían problemas disciplinarios y que tuvieran que expiar sus culpas en servicios difíciles y de alto riesgo. Durante una guerra, las compañías de flanqueadores de los regimientos de caballería eran las primeras que empezaban cada batalla y normalmente se marchaban las últimas del campo de batalla. Cuando el regimiento permanecía en sus posiciones, los flanqueadores penetraban las líneas delante de las líneas principales o provocaban al enemigo con el fuego, todo el tiempo “flanqueando”, es decir actuando en orden disperso ante las líneas de los ejércitos enemigos. Atacaban los flancos del enemigo, protegían el frente, las alas y la retaguardia de sus propios escuadrones. No paraban de vigilar si su propio regimiento no había sido rodeado o sorprendido con un ataque inesperado. Del campo de batalla se retiraban paso a paso, or detrás del regimiento, y además tenían que estar muy atentos a cada movimiento por parte del enemigo. También protegían las expediciones para conseguir el forraje para otros escuadrones. En general, realizaban las tareas más ingratas y agotadoras, tanto durante la guerra como durante la paz.”””
“”” It was a flankers company, no a squadron. Part of each cavalry regiment with the last number (eight) to protect its detachment (sort of a light detachment). Unofficially a flankers company was composed mainly by all the soldiers of the regiment with discipline problems, who shall wash their guilts in difficult and high risk tasks. At war the flankers companies from cavalry regiments were the first to begin each battle and usually the last to left the battleground. When the regiment was stationary, the flankers penetrate the lines in front of the main lines, or provoking the enemy with fire, all the time “flanking”, that is in a loose order before the enemy lines. They attacked the enemy flanks, protect their front, wings and rear of their own squadrons. They ceaselessly watch for enemy envolvments or surprises with unexpected attacks. They retire step by step after their regiment , being watchful every enemy movement. They also protect the forage incursions to obtain other squadrons grain. Perform all hard duties, both at war and peace times. “”
Hey up, great figures!
Cool.
Awesome content man!
Ohyes bin waiting for this thanks
Hello! I like the video but I had a question, can each company of a battalion act as independent units like in Napoleon Total War or do they always have to be together with the other companies?
Not always, but usually. It could be possible to get all the flank companies of a brigade together to form 'combined grenadiers' or 'combined lights'. It would usually be the former though for a special task such as storming a defended position
Thanks for the video. Apologies if in one of your videos working my way through them however just wanted to check basing a battalion. For 28mm assume 24 centre and 12 flank in groups of 6 for the 6 companies. Is this standard or can you have smaller companies as long as frontage is correct. Thought getting colours right would be sticking point however haven't got past bases. Cheers
Yeah, smaller units are fine. In my getting started video we have units of 24
@@NapoleonicWargaming Cheers. Catching up on your videos. Great stuff, going to need to get wider range of paints for more mixed French and British Peninsular war units.
Awesome nice content
The height stated for Grenadiers as 173.5cm does not convert to 5'4", it's about 5'8". It likely a typo and should read 163.5cm as I think 5'8" is too tall for the time and 5'4" is more realistic.
It’s not a typo, 5’8 was roughly as common as 6’ today. It’s not unreasonable to have that as a height requirement. Grenadiers were supposed to be taller and stronger, and 5’4 is way below average even then. 5’8 is slightly above so it makes perfect sense
@@rhysnichols8608 173.5cm does not equal 5'4" so one of the figures stated on the site is clearly wrong. I just had a quick look at the Napoleon-series website and there are a couple of references to the height of French Grenadiers as being 5'5".
@@shcomptech
It depends what conversion the site is using, French measurements of the time are different to modern. Napoleon is often described as 5’2 but he was 5’6 by modern standards.
@@rhysnichols8608 Yes, if that's the case then the modern 173.5cm would be about 5'4" in old French pied and pounce which is about 5'8" in feet and inches today.
As I said, it depends what measurements the site uses. I always use modern day measurements. There is no typo, 173.5cm is just under 5’9
This height is average today, but was considered tall in the early 1800s. So it’s a reasonable height requirement for grenadiers.
It would be like having 6’1 as the requirement for a modern elite unit.
5’8 as we know it was written as 5’5 in 1800s French measurements, so when the site says grenadiers had to be 173.5cm and then says it’s equal to 5’5 it’s referring to French measures of the time
Essentially 173cm (5’8) is perfectly reasonable for a tall mans company back in a time when 5’6 was the average. I don’t think there’s a typo it’s just a confusion on which measurements you use.
Could you pop the link for the patreon in the description for those of us who may want to contribute?
Ha, that would help! www.patreon.com/napoleonicwargaming
Wasn't that Marshal Oudinot?
Oudinout was a grenzdier
In Black Powder rules if you remove grenadiers you don't loose 2 hand-to-hand and 1 shooting...
The rules say you only loose 1 hand-to-hand and nothing about shooting (Albion Triumphant vol 2. p.119)
I think its 2 in AT1. I'll be going more into it on Wednesday
@@NapoleonicWargaming AT1 p. 107 still -1hth only.
The same in Clash of Eagles p. 51 still -1hth ;)
You might have mistaken this with reducing battalion size (standard to small) which reduces 2hth and 1shooting ;)
Not quite so, french grenadiers also carried briquettes
Pretty damp sure it was Lance's who was a grenadier
175cm is 5.741 almost 5.8 ft not 5.4 ft
Flanks a lot