Russian Engine Option for Tejas Mk1A
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
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If production line of RD33 is present in India, then we seriously need to consider it. Options are very important for us, specially when a nation like US is involved in it.
Yes absolutely true.
Ur right bro
They ain't giving ToT
@Ronit_9977
You said it - specially when a nation like US is involved in it.
In Aviation business, nothing (except some spares) is available off the shelf. It takes time to "produce" the item, in numbers, after the order gets received. This, the Indian planners must know & appreciate. Even after all formalities aret complete for the induction of Kaveri engine the engines have to be first made/manufactured/produced in one of the HAL's Engine divisions. It takes time.
Lkn Masla ye ho gya ha k Jf17 mei jb ye engine use howa tha tu Indians sab keh rhy thy k Jf17 ka engine bekar ha us sy kuch nhi ho ga us ka aesa radar bi nhi chl sky ga na wo pl 15 use kr sky ga😂 aj tum log keh rhy k tejas mei use kr lein lkn tum logon ki ideology sy tu Tejas bi bekar ho jaye ga😂
India has to maintain two production lines of engines from two reliable countries for sustainability and for emergency backup and this has to be understood by our indian government and IAF without any doubt.
2 production lines 😊😊😊. Do govt have enough cash to buy ToT ??? Engine is more exclusive than the fighter jet . Saab , KAI, LM, Boeing , BAE , Turkey , HAL. All can make fighters but not the engine .
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. The RD33 is almost 3 feet shorter than the F404, 5 inches wider and heavier by almost two small sized people. In a small fighter like Tejas with a total length of ~43 ft, a 3 ft shorter engine is a very big issue. The extra 5 in diameter means figuring out how to "pack" the extra space (you can't just make the nozzles longer. There will have to be exotic material ducting with high thermal resilience and low drag to safely eject the gas without compromising the thrust), stiffen the fasteners, reduce tolerance-related vibrations, and deal with different thermal signatures for things like IFF, developing countermeasures to threats, etc. In addition RD-33 has an older generation electronic control system (ECS) while the F404 has newer digital electronic control system (DEEC). Plus, RD-33 has higher maintenance meaning aircraft unavailability goes up. It literally means you will have significant modifications to the Tejas airframe to accomodate the RD-33. Remember that modern fighters are built around the engines, not the other way around.
@@ninadbhave5133 OH my dear, actually you dont understand what I am really trying to tell. I never and ever mentioned that RD 33 can be easily replaced and integrated in the place of GE F 404 engine. Before commenting please make sure what are trying to comment. I am talking about two entirely different platforms without any kind of intervention with each other but with equal importance and priorities to maintain two different kind of fighter engines of two countries origin with full capacity and as per overall requirements. I hope you understand well now.
@Thammi:
There are already 2 aircraft engine production centres - HAL and GTRE. If and when the govt. goes in for joint development of an engine for the AMCA that'll be a third.
Setting up aircraft production and aircraft engine production lines are very, very expensive. It would also need highly skilled manpower, which won't be available at short notice.
A plan to assemble the GE F404-IN20 also locally would be a better alternative.
@@le_ecrivaine please read my entire comment fully. I told that we should have two foreign countries engines manufacturing within India. I know that setting up whole infrastructure is expensive and for that reason only we can purchase readily available platforms and making them competitive within themselves which could yeild positively for Indian defence sector. What exactly can you prioritize when it comes to matter of national security? One can justify everything by his side only but this is a matter which is keep on delaying for last 30 years. So how can this be justified?
Kaveri pr war level emergency ke tahat funding diya jaye aur har tarah ki testing aur certification facilities Bharat ke andar urgency ke sath bnaya jaye....
But this is my day-dreaming...😢
First time I heard that money can also buy time 😅😅😅. China has trillions of dollars but can’t buy engine , tech or time .
May Be , Ye cheez Itna Important Hota toh Government jarrur kaam karti ...
Nahi karega 😂
@BPSingh-kn8gr
Yours is not day-dreaming. Every Indian feels the same. A flying test bed is the need now (Kaveri is the first engine developed by India & so it is a new experience), for which an aircraft can be acquired easily. Indians learn things bit by bit. In a year or so, all such facilities will (have to) be developed.
@@MrPoornakumar hope so...
Kaveri failure is hurting us; dekh reha hai naa Vinod....
Govt has stopped it's funding, they need to fund this project
@@KuchBaateWaateWithBrijesh They started funding Kaveri 1-2 years ago, and my guess is, it will require 5-7 years before we see meaningful progress in Kaveri.
not Vinod......"Binod"......😂
Dek raha ho
Why everyone talks about only thrust no. when it comes to kaveri and..
Thrust as well as reliability with life cycle when it comes to RD33?? 😊
I bet kaveri can't tackle even 500 hrs
After ridiculing JF17 for using a smoking, short life, supposedly unreliable and failure prone engine, our keyboard warriors here in comments are almost on the verge of eating their words. Need i point out that an air force with 1/7th or less the budget has so many financial constraints that they don't have the luxury to make mistakes and this is likely the very reason they've made more frugal and smart choices compared to IAF over the past 20 years. Look at the squadron strength they're able to maintain, and the overall quality vs quantity mix with a puny budget.. from 55 year old Mirages, to Chinese J10Cs and fairly time tested upgraded F16s to locally assembled JF17s with the engine we're now considering acceptable. Necessity is the mother of invention!
Itna dimag hotha to 1995 se development me nahi hotha kaveri engine
350 cr rupees budget in 1989 jab GE f404 ka budget 2 Billion dollars tha
Jitna karcha DRDO ne karcha kia he 9 prototypes develop karne keliye
Us se 40 GE f404 engines karidh sakte he
Ye he research per honewala karcha😂😂😂
If spent double and started by copying completely from RD33 engines it would have already reached it now
And we would have been as capable as Chinese by 2008
Of course they expanded research budget
We won't be beating them by now
@@rajeshreddy9922
Kaveri ka design bahut aaccha hain as it is the smallest turbofan with 70kN thrust.
But uska main problem hain hot core jahan main combustion hota hain aaur especially fusion crystal blades.
Even USA ka GE khud crystal blades nahin bana ta usse MSME suppliers supply karte hain.
In just 1 GE F404 there are more than 30 different vendors and suppliers.
Problem is Government of India isn't letting private players who are good at metallurgy taking the steering and make crystal blades & hot core.
I agree with you
Better to have an engine than you get on time than have a mystical one which you dont get at all
Also jf17 uses older series 33 engines
They have rd93(chinese modified variant of rd33) that is why the engine is bad. Our mig 29 is doing fine with 70% availability rate. Plus the myth of f404 is better is crushed with a crash in 3 years only because of engine failure. And it was 2nd issue with engine in 2 years only
We should always have a backup plan when it comes to our national interest.
I love the way you all have analysed RD33 engines - hope the Govt is listening to this video.
Kaveri funding should not have been stopped.
Govt doesn't want to provide fundings ...pta nhi kya hota hai Indian democracy mein
It's not only about funding.
@@thebeautifulanimal I bet the most talented Indian engineers are going to US companies instead of working in India
कुछ भी करें लेकिन कावेरी इंजन पे लगातार काम करते रहे चाहे हमें रशियाई इंजन लगाना पड़े फिर भी हमारे पास 2,4 साल बाद भी अगर कावेरी इंजन तैयार हो जाता है तो भी हमारे लिए अब तक की सबसे बड़ी उपलब्धि होगी जो आगे भी बहोत काम आएगी
Exactly RD33 ko mk1 k Liye 2 option consider Karna chiye aur Saath hi mk2 k Liye AL 31F ka option bhi consider Karna chiye also make in India, hamara order ko 2 size me decide Karna chiye, because war time me hum america pe tho bharosa NAHI kar sakte sure dhokha denge.
Hahaha. Tajes can fit in Al31 diameter. Not the other way round
@@WhoAmI00307Arey yar vo Tejas Mk2 me AL31FP engines ko alternatively use krne ki baat kr rha he pr usey bi zaida better option AL41F engine hoga
Can use RD 33 with tot and till then develop Kaveri engine. Still , may be Kaveri engine will take 3 to 4 years more. Till then rd 33 with full tot is great option.
South korea FA-50, ka prodution streamlined hai..hamare me hi kyu GE gadbad kr raha hai ? ... USA tactics ?
Bhai deal sign 2021 me ho gayi thi or delay modi ji ki visit se phele se hori hai toh U.S arm twisting phele he kr skta tha so I think G.E ke andar he kuch issue hoga but you never know it's U.S...they can change colour anytime
@@VOID_24. yeah
LM is partner of KAI and deep pockets and mouth shut. Not like bak bak Jaishankar
South Korea had ordered f404 way before us.
If u order 114 Rafale today.. U gonna get all 114 after UAE backlog of 80 Rafale😊
because abhi humare pm russia gaye the isliye usa punishment ke roop mai yeh kar raha hai usa humare sarkaar 70 saal se soo rahi thi ek jet nahi banpaya humari govt
Jai Shree Radhe Krishna 🙏🙏🧡
Jai Bharat Rashtra 🙏🙏🧡
Yes sir, fully agree with your views.India should not have stopped the Kavery engine funding.
Tejas is bread and butter Defance channel's
Right
Good video.
You seem to have abandoned "backstabbing" sort of headlines!
But overall I agree with your arguments.
I think, quite publicly, efforts to integrate an RD33 engine into a Tejas MK1A should begin forthwith, instead of waiting to see what GE does in Sept.
Secondly, efforts for an alternate engine from western countries for Tejas MK1A, Tejas Mk2, AMCA should commence on a war footing.
Personally I would prefer Safran over Rolls Royce because UK can be easily arm twisted by the US while France shows some independence in its policy.
Lastly, Govt needs to put its full weight behind the Kaveri programme.
Events have shown time & again that foreign countries, most of all western ones, are prone to armtwisting /gouging hence we need to get cracking on critical technologies.
धिक्कार-धिक्कार धिक्कार-धिक्कार धिक्कार-धिक्कार।
भारत की निकम्मी नौकरशाही पर।
Infact HAL ,drdo is like uncle's and auntie's factory..
You must know that drdo is not a "factory" to produce something. It is a cluster of laboratories, that isn't geared up for regular "production". Production is the business of HAL, BEL, BDL, Midani, Ordnance factories, L&T, Tatas, Kalyani industires, Godrej or whatever. Almost all my countrymen are under the mistaken impression that drdo "produces".
@vinayk binod samajh aya kuch .
Hathi ghode sab ek barabar nahi .
2 b1b lancers benguluru me spot hua hai ? Ek video please rapid dragon pe banao jo hamare c295 me drdo ke madat se indegenously bankar lag sake iske kya chances hai ?
Good one Sir 🙏
Kaveri par aur dam lagao...
Tejas is like a patient admitted to private hospital... They neither cure the patient or declare him dead... All the hospital wants is huge bill😂
वर्तमान में कावेरी इंजन 73 किलो नोट कीप पावर देने में सक्षम है जबकि तेजस के लिए 81 किलो नोट की पावर चाहिए जो आवश्यकता से करीब 10% कम है भारत को कावेरी इंजन को तेजस में इंटीग्रेटेड करके टेस्ट करना चाहिए जैसे ही कावेरी इंजन प्रोडक्शन में जाएगा रिफाइंड होने के बाद अब 80 के नोट के करीब पावर देगा और हमारी अमेरिकी 404 इंजन से निर्भरता खत्म हो जाएगी 0:21
This should be learning point for Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA and even for new engine it would be costly but India shold go with both RR and Safaran it will keep both in check
जानबूझ कर देर की जा रही है ताकि हमारा तेजस ना बन पाए और कर लो विश्वास अमेरिका पर।
actually Tejas MK1A ka design hi GE-404 jet engine ke hisab se hai tab Tejas MK1A mein russian RD-33 instal kiya hi nahin ja sakta, ab pakistan ne bi apne naye jf17s mein russia se RD-33 ka upgraded version RD-93 liya ja raha hai so bharat ke liye bi RD-93 engine lena behtar hoga par iske liye Tejas MK1A ke design mein badlav karna zaroori hoga.🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨
Tejas be like:- Tu engine dhund rehta jaega or mera koi game bja dega
Bharat Ko GE Co. Pe full pressure strategy dalte huye RD33 Option ko consider karna chahiye me to kahunga kaveri engine ka development chalu rakhna chahiye us project ka nam badalkar war footing base par development & testing process chalu rahna chahiye or Tab tak delay karne se achha hai RD33 Engine lagakar 1-2 Sqadran Tejas Mark-1A ki bana leni chahiye something is better then nothing jisse GE co. Pe or jyada pressure padega ye USA ki Strategy hai Bharat ke Make in India initiative ko rokne ke liye .
Kaveri engine any how hame banana hi hoga
GE me koi supply chain issue nahi hai...wo bas Tejas ko delay karwa rahe hai taki india ko pakistan pe koi advantage na mile...or bharat ki dum unke par ke niche dabi rahe
Meri jan Pakistan ka bal bi nhi gila hona Tejas k honey ya na honey sy😂
@@muhammadzakriya1761 93000 ne pant me moot diya tha India ke aage...aukat mat bhula karo salo, or jis jagah reh rahe ho wo bharat ne hi bheek me di hai rhne ke liye jise pakistan bolte ho. 😂
Right 👍👍👍
If we're building the Su-35 engine in India, then surely we can reverse engineer it?
The expertise with K9 will enable us to reverse engineer the % of the Su-35 engine that we import from Roos?
Tejas is single engine aircraft so it's kinda risky to go with Russian engines if it was two engine aircraft in any circumstances if one engine fails pilot could land aircraft with power of one engine
If we see al31 and rd33 engine in last 20 years in india. None of the engine has failed. But f404 has failed in 3 years only and crashed tejas
@@Vartik-jr4qr Yes, last time 404failed and we lost one aircraft there, but I don't know whether the rd33 failed or not.
Def minister Rajnath singh is going to US mainly to discuss F404 engine ddlay n 31MQ9 dtone
If GE has some issues, US dhoukd agree to give used GE F404 engines for time being n later it can be swaped with new one
If they refuse india should refuse even F414 offer n get out of US defence relations
JAI HIND 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Lkn masla ya ha k jb Jf17 ny ye engine use kiya tha tu ye sary nally youtuber keh rhy thy k Jf17 bekar ha Jf 17 apna Aesa radar bi nhi use kr skta or Pl15 bi nhi use kr sky ga 😅 lkn ab mei soch rha hun k agr Tejas mei bi wohi engine use krna pra tu ye UA-camr apni bholi bhali awam ko kon si khani suna k Tejas k engine ko duniya ka best engine bna dein gein😂😂
Why don't our aircraft development agencies work on methods like two way method...
We had total 2 Technology development variants
And 6 prototype variant...
And none have a new engine option...
And none of our agencies had plans for integration of other engines as well...
Sir timeline 02:51 upto what extent are these engines being manufactured in India. And what is this 'manufacture' do we assemble.or are we achieving from mineral ore to engine core.
Samosa tejas 😂😂bekar reject
America par bharosa nahi karna chahiye
💯
What if we install Snecma M53-P2 engines which gives 65 kN dry thrust & 95 kN with afterburner ?
air inlet diameter is the same so most probably we won't need to redesign the air intakes.
Weight balance करना पड़ेगा ।
When India was adamant to use GE engines or Kaveri engine only (its ego problem), Infact France tried to sell M88 engines by offering to use it as the core in kaveri. So Indians can be fooled that they have a kaveri engine, but the program uses M88. The decision again wasted time. These DRDO experts can't mature kaveri and neither allow other solutions to be used. They may be working for GE/USA rather than India.
American supplies will have condition applies....I hope the army learns their lessons and stop craving for striker.Rather use DRDO designed APC.
Mujhe koyi aashcharya nahi huwa ye sunkar ye to hona hi tha
Can we consider 2 companies for MRFA like how we are doing it for Submarines... This way 2 companies can be established in India
I believe we are that point of time .... where we are in round 6 of the boxing match (Winning round 10 is about having our own Engine development ability ...not just for this but for anything)... we (the Goverment) must hold on to our core inner strength. and that is the ability to get stuff from anyone we want.
It may be considered that a RD33 version of Tajas should also be made ...irrespective of the 414 situation.
(I hope I have got the engine numbers right !!!? ... but you get what i mean)
It would be an interesting stratergy to follow ...where by all future developments will have TWO DIFFERENT engine SUPPLIER versions (until we get our own abilities in place).
JAI HO
Kisi ne🎉sach hee kahata a old friend is is better than few new friends.100%true
But do MOD & IAF has that much spine, vision & initiative to challenge GE by moving towards RD33??
@gmr1047
They will do it after you prove that you have “spine and vision.” 😉
Are you game?? 🤔
Konsa supply chain issue? Bhai KAI T-50 bhi yhi engine use krte hai and vo to mast rollout ho rahe hai.
Aap ekdum sahi bol rahe ho, 8-10 unit humko Russian engine ke sath banani start kr deni chahiye. Inlogo ka koi bharosa nahi hai.
Hey, alpha, is kaveri engine thrust is similar to rd33? Rd33 is certified for single engine aircraft?
Russian engines are full of Chinese components. It's highly compromised. Hence, Russian engines are not on table.
भारत टेक्नोलॉजी develop करने के पहले ही दुनिया भर में ढिंढोरा पीट देता है।
@Alpha Defence, wont an RD33 require extensive internal modification of Tejas which would take a lot of time?
Otherwise I support ur idea of having multiple options
Bharat must get 2nd option right from today. For future , Bharat must have multiple options and never rely solely on american equiptments.
Is astra mk 1 fully integrated with tejas mk 1? We have heard about testing 11 months back, but I haven't heard the news of its full integration in air force fleet. It should have been integrated. Right? Platform is indian, mission computer is indian, missile is indian.
established production line ke baad bhi agar ge 3 saal tak 1 bhi engine supply nahi kar sakta toh fir alternative me kya bura he. aur woh alter6 kaveri engine jaisa swadeshi ho to aur bhi achha.
yehi deri agar ge ke shivay kisi swadeshi company ne ki hoti to usase penalty ke taur pe dugune paise wasoole gaye hote.
Indian government is naive and short sighted. This same scenario will occur during LCA Mk2 and AMCA production. If the govt doesn't have any alternatives prepared for the F414, consider mk2 delayed by another 5 years. It is shocking how "Atmanirbhar" bharat is always dependent on the West for critical tech
Reliable nehi hai sir rd 33
Agar hum apne research development par paisa nahi lagayenge to yahi hoga hume apna engion par paisa lagana chaiye tabhi dusre desh par dependent nahi honge agar hamara ek engion bhi ban gaya to hum or bhi varrient ke engion bana sakenge
Freebies give you vote. Research and development don't give you any vote
Sir, I don't understand. Proving the concept does not mean it is capable for operational use?? If not then we are just certifying it and keeping it for what? Future requirements are definitely going to be more and more thrust even in UAV's.
HAL GE pr penalty nhi laga sakti deri k liye?
Cant we cancel d 99 engine deal bcz of late delivery....... n bring dem on table 4 production in India plan?
sir did you see sss defence ak type p72 assault rifle
Splendor ka engine lagalo, best hai👍👍👍👍
Did we already paid for that 99 GE F404 engines?
❤
RD33 engine is 32 cm longer than ge404. Will that be an issue?
India should learn and consider non GE engines for AMCA
New AL 51 F1 engine is good option but may not suit for tejas
This will take another 5 years ... At this rate Tejas Mark 1A will become outdated before it becomes mainstream.
RD 33 can not be fitted on Tejas...dia of RD33 is different and F404 is different, wt is different...planes are designed around an engine and not vice versa.
Thank you. I was astounded with the video and 99% of the comments... people don't seem to have a basic idea of things and are talking total nonsense 😂😂😂
Russian engines for "Tejas"fighter jets are also consider seriously,with technology transfer and manufacturing licence. Russia will agree to such proposal because they need Indian currency.
If possible, Can you please explain in detail as to what exactly is the impediment for India to develop its own engine?
@gurudutt:
If possible, can you please explain in detail what exactly is the impediment for an armchair expert like yourself in developing an aircraft engine? 🤔😉
What’s new in this? Would be better if RD can be integrated if so what’s the timeline
Al 31 sukhoi ka laga sakte hai ???
Sir ek bar jis engine ke sath ek bar testing ho gyi or production schedule bhi bana liya ab thodi na change hoga. Ye baat samaj nhi aayi
Can u make a comparison between ge404 and proposed kaveri configuration by DRDO
French engine v ek option ho sakta hay.
Bina aircraft redesign k rd 33 lgana kese possible h?
Kayse nikamma engineer hay hum indian, ek engine develop nehi kar pa Rahe hay, and hum supper power ka sapna dekh Rahe hay.
apne pass ek web browser nahi hai, ek search engine nahi hai aur kahte hai ki ham software development mein bemisaal hai.
Can kaveri power tejas in future? Is it really possible?
There has to penalty cause focusing on delays, in the contract India Signed with GE
India abhi tak apne 4rth generation fighter jet engine problem solve naheen kar saka aur 5th generation fighter jet engine problem kab solve ho ga?
Rd 33 engine ke sath bhi supply chain ki problem lagi howi hai Ukraine Russia war ke chalte islye Pakistan Chinese engine par shift ho raha hai
C-5 Super Galaxy Military Transport Aircraft per bhi video banaye....its not for sell, but we can tallk about its capabilities.
Ab 97 tejas mk1a mein b delay, tejas mk 2 bhi delay interesting i like it
Sir Kay Russian engine mig29 me use ho raha hai aur wo better thrust to weight ratio bhi accha hai phir kyu nahi use kar sakte
It's old and not reliable for long term.
Cant they get a 404 form some where else im sure they have some in other countries not in use
Importance of Kaveri...
modi was busy with mandir and congress mukt bharat and funnding of kaveri engine is not important for him
Kaveri
is there no indemnity or delay / guaranty clause involved in such mega deals? Its surprising. If promisor party is delaying and money is recoverable, it should be 2X money recovery.
👌👌👌
Humhare bureaucrats ke incompetency aur vision ke kami aur previous UPA regime ke samay defence mein koi investment nahi kiya gaya isse ke chalte aaj humhare desh yeh situation mein hai. Sorry state of affairs.
India ke Saare weapons UPA government main develop hua. Kaveri ne 73kn thrust produce kiya. Modi government ne engine ka development rok diya.
Will RD 33 size is fit for Tejas?
Why are we not creating engine options for Tejas LCA Mk1A? Why did we not think of this while making the aircraft ready for induction? how did we think of putting all the eggs in one bag in such a complex geopolitical environment? This is our failure not American GE’s… we have to create our own engine option how much ever time or money that needs or have the aircrafts modified to accommodate other variants with EJ200, M88 and RD-33 Klimov Mk engines… this will not only make it a logistically permanent alternative to regular American arm twisting but will also help in-pitching of the aircraft with airforces of eastern europe and CIS countries which operate some French and Russian aircrafts as a common engine platform is suitable for other airforces to operate a light combat aircraft!
Better to opt EJ 2000 engine
Kaveri dry ka kya hua
ADA ke pichwade me gaya
Hame kuchh tajes m RD 33 use karna chahiye
मैं इस विचार से सहमत हूँ और निश्चित रूप से कम से कम 100 rd33 इंजन भारत में बनाए जाने चाहिए ताकि यह हमारे 83 तेजस mk1a में लग सकें. इससे अमेरिका को jor का झटका dhire से लगेगा. जय हिन्द 🇮🇳🇮🇳
engines cannot simply be changed like bicycle tires.
the entire tejas would have to be re-designed around a different engine
and then the re-certification process would have to start from the beginning.
Rd33 achha alternetive. Bharat isko backup rakhe.
September me GE bolega "Vo to chunavi jumla tha!!"😅
Kaveri lao...... Tejas bachao....
Import lobby dur hato...