Something I want to point out, on the “slow start and story front-loading” segment: I played this as a 9 or 10 year old, but as someone who wasn’t born in an English-speaking country. On one hand it is one of the games I attribute to having learned English so early; not knowing the language the game is written in gives it a COMPLETELY different perspective. Me and my friend got stuck in the desert on the “Starts with L, ends with EMON” part, but up until that part we trial and errored our way forth, and having things be so clear to us, in just imaging was what made us love this game. We didn’t know what the Star-Spirits said, we didn’t know where we were meant to go based on hints. But seeing Mario fall out of the castle, getting to play Peach between chapters made us understand the game’s story without being able to read it. We ended up having to sit there with a borrowed dictionary, whenever we got stuck (which was OFTEN), but it was so worth it to get through this game as kids. Looking back, it’s amazing to me that a game which is so text-based can also be so accessible to people who doesn’t know what the game is telling you with words. We started by learning with what it showed us!
That's really cool! It reminds me of when I watched Cartoon Network shows when I was a kid, back when, as a non English-speaking kid in a non English-speaking country, I didn't understand English all that well, and yet Cartoon Network was all in English. But I didn't care! I got a couple words here and there (I sure could read a decent amount of English, but not exactly understand it when spoken), but most of all, I saw the characters' actions, which spoke a lot more by themselves. Ed, Edd n' Eddy was the best example for me. Even back then, even when I didn't understand most of what they said, I knew Ed was about as dumb as a bag of rocks, yet was also a loyal and friendly kid who's... both unhealthily obsessed with monster movies and unhealthy in general. Double D was the smartest and skillful of the group... so long as it didn't involve any sort of physical work, and with his organization, obedience and tidiness, comes also some paranoia, fear of authority and lack of social skills (should I mention I kinda related to him the most?). And of course there's Eddy, the one that was truly a jerk, all interested in making it big, getting those quarters with dubious schemes and scams aplenty, getting those sweet Jawbreakers at all costs, even if it meant cashing in at the cost of the other kids in the cul-de-sac... which is no wonder why he and his pals were always seen as "the Eds", the outcasts. Because, for as dimwitted as Ed was (and how much that awful sister of his despised him, but no worries, we all despise her too), and how socially awkward Edd was, it's not like the other kids were "normal" either. Kevin's obsession with his bike; Rolf with his odd-ball mannerisms, sayings and traditions; Nazz wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the toolbox either; Johnny... as in, him as a whole... you get the idea. Ed and Edd could sorta fit right in, with the occasional "oh-so-original" insult from Kevin aside. And yet, it was mostly Eddy's fault that the other Eds couldn't fit in, since they always stuck together in his schemes and devious plans. So yeah, I guess one of the most important things in media for kids to do right isn't to tell a simple, basic story. Rather, it is tell a story in a way that could be well understood by the characters' actions and a couple of words alone, as complex of a story as it can be.
I definitely would have, but I never found it! I always shut out other videos, reviews, guides, and opinions about a game while I'm working on it, but once the episode was done, I watched a Stryder7x video where he casually mentioned it, and I was like, "...aw, man."
@@GeekCritique that sucks man, I found it by pure chance, and it was one of my favorite finds, its so wholesome yet also weirdly somber to find it and read about the aspirations of a character that was orginally just a tool for multiplayer
@@GeekCritique I'd do some research on Stryder7x before watching the rest of his stuff. He had some pretty nasty domestic violence allegations pointed at him for a year or so now. Not sure if that ever got resolved in anyway but it didn't look good.
This is the Paper Mario breakdown I've been trying to make for years. Kudos to you Josh. The youtube-verse is filled with folks giving a quick gloss over history, lore, what the game is, and that's about it. But you introduce another element. PERSPECTIVE. And I love that, because its presented in such a way that even folks who don't have a shared experience/similar experience will enjoy the video, and become interested in the subject matter. Love it. Keep it up!
One thing I love about the game is in fact how... immersive the world is. For a game released in the N64, there's a ton of dialogue that changes depending on your actions. Every NPC has a name, and depending on the chapter, they may change their location and what they're doing. While the partners can be paper-thin (ha) with regards to personality at times, they all have a place in the world and people they interact with. For example, you can make Kooper talk to Kolorado and he'll gush over his idol. And you mentioned Mario receiving letters, but if you go to the post office, each of the partners also receive letters from friends and family, worried about them. It helps with the feeling that you're helping these people out and that your actions have an impact, which is an odd feeling to feel about a Mario game. The game in general just has such a crazy level of attention to detail (something the next two games also nail) it's honestly crazy. It makes the world so much more fun to explore than most RPGs. I always yearn to return to Toad Town to see what's changed; like at one point Goombario's family goes there and you can just hang out with them. Someone at Intelligent Systems wrote a crapton of tattle dialogue for Goombario that most players won't see, but someone will, and it rewards that player's curiosity. EDIT: also, that whole "people wanting something to be just like when they were children" speech is gonna be very relevant next time you cover Sonic games, haha
Having all that extra dialogue and scenes sounds like it would make the world come alive. I wondered before what would happen if games got intelligent AI in the future. It would feel we're talking to a real person in game and the whole game world would be the Matrix. Then could game characters break the fourth wall and realize they're in a game world?
Played Mario RPG and then like Geek Critque played Paper Mario. I hated it. I made only 3 attempts at playing it. When i was a kid, beat the first boss, and I couldn't care about it. So I stopped because I had other better games to play. 2nd attempt when I went into collecting games after high school, i played and i felt like i force myself to the 3 boss and just couldn't care. Finally 3rd attempt, when i was in the Army deployed i had my laptop with emulators of every system/game. Since there is nothing to do. i decide to beat it since i had friends praising it. Beat it and I can tell you. It still sucks, i dont care about it. The only nice things was the partners, but you could only have 1 at a time. and thats it the only good thing in my eyes about it. This is just my opinion i can see why others like it but when comparing to SMRPG this falls waaaaaaaaaaay short. I made no attempts at any of the other Paper Mario games. I do play Mario & Luigi sagas. They feel so much more closer to SMRPG
Having played through Paper Mario recently (as a lifelong RPG veteran,) mechanically it's definitely Baby's First JRPG. But the attention to detail in that game is incredible, and, with Goombario as my default companion I saw pretty much all of his Tattles and screen tidbits. I've gone and played other JRPGs since, and after Paper Mario it's a little jarring when the townspeople don't have something new to say after each of my notable accomplishments. I hear The Thousand Year Door is even better, but I'm going to have to wait for retro game prices to come down, or for GC emulator that will run on my phone.
"I didn't judge it for what it was; I dismissed it for what it wasn't." If I had a dollar for every time my friends did that shit to something I liked...
I've gotten comments from people who missed both Mario RPG AND Samus Returns, because UA-cam never notified or recommended them. MY wish on the Star Spirits is that UA-cam stops fiddling around with subscriptions. So I guess I'd better remind you to ring the bell to please the algorithm. Maybe they won't screw around with that one! Thank you everyone, happy holidays, and I hope you enjoy the episode! This was SO much fun to put together.
hi i came down here because at 8:00 the way tabletop RPGs was described is a bit reductive. I get they have a reputation for being RNG-laden wargames but most of them are not, roleplaying and clever solutions matter a lot more than raw stats and numbers, and video game RPGs lost something HUGE in translation that really, no AI can make up for. Really, there's a type of freedom that can only exist in TTRPGs with a real person capable of human sentience running the game instead of a program. I also get it was for the sake of simplicity but a lot of people who grew up with video games actually do think TTRPGs are all crunch and no flavor that huge math nerds play and that's only a subset of the total community. D: TBF, D&D (the most popular one) got its start as a wargame, but branched out a lot from that on 3rd edition and that was also when other systems like call of cthulhu cemented a place in those spaces (which is way more focused on clever solutions than rolling high) and many modern systems that exist today like FATE and Open Legend are a lot more about roleplaying. anyway i know this is a big post and probably not that many people care but if I've sparked the interest of anyone who has only heard of tabletop games in passing, PLEASE give them a try sometime, they are wholly a unique experience and actually pretty unalike video games. (yes i am literally shilling for a niche hobby rn please don't kill me)
Hey Greek Critique before you end the Metroid train forever, can you do a final recap video divulging your thoughts on the entire series, how you’d rank the games, and all that stuff. (Also you never played Federation Force)
Second? I felt attacked by that thumbnail. It not only spooked me it broke into my house in dead of night, shook me until I awoke, then slapped me with a mackerel before climbing out the window again and running away.
@Steve Murdock Yeah, when I played thru it the first time I thought it was funny, in the same way that I Wanna Be The Guy had so-bullshit-its-brilliant trial and error and how LISA the Painful RPG is ok letting you climb a 5 minute long rope only reach a literal middle finger and nothing else (and you then have to go aaaaall the way back). I guess I'm ok being at the expense of the joke, it's amusing to me.
I think that's kind of a silly statement really. It could be argued that non-story-driven games are 100% filler depending on your perspective, and that would be ridiculous to say, so what's wrong with RPGs having segments that don't contribute directly to the story as long as the gameplay is enjoyable?
I honestly dont understand why people talk about backtracking in that game as if it's a major issue. The only time it ever was an issue, if you even want to call it that, was in Chapter 7 with the whole General White bussiness. But I see no issue with seeing the previous areas you visited in a sort of side quest to find somebody you've seen throughout the journey to this point. It was annoying sure, but it was difficult and rewarding when you finally got it. It was quite the experience to finish that part of the game and be greeted with the surprise that followed. Other than when did the game even do this backtracking thing? I can hardly think of anytime when it did. If simply passing through routes you passed by before is enough, that's a little nitpicky. I had no issue passing places that were a part of the area I was exploring. To me it was a part of the exploration. Really grasping and understanding the surrounding area and familiarizing with the people living there.
Who cares!? Geno was extremely overrated. He didn't even have an arch nor personality like Mallow. He just would have been another glass cannon. How about we get some good choices like Impa or Darunia
I know that the story isn’t as engaging as RPG, but the one thing I LOVE about this game’s story is the way it builds up the final battle. You mentioned last time that RPG did a great job showing Exor as a threat but I think they did an even better job with Bowser in this game. He kicks your butt in the beginning, you see him acting cocky and having his way with the Princess after every chapter. A lot of the characters make reference to wishes or dreams they have but they can’t come true because of HIM. But over time, he gets angry and scared of you making progress. The Star Spirits spell it out for you in their speeches. Going up to his castle and powering through and eventually beating him in the same place you were defeated before feels SO GOOD. Even if the GAMEPLAY isn’t a climax, the STORY is. This game above all else makes him seem like a huge threat and I LOVE it. I wish they did it more in future games.
I think what I liked the most is how the game contrast that before the final boss you fight that regular bowser again, and even thou his regular star rod power doesnt make him totally invincible, you became so strong that you can even opt to bruteforce throught the fight if you dont wanna use the star beam, it contrast how weaker bowser is and would lose to mario were not by his final boss power up.
Building up a final battle with bowser? As an exciting threatening climax? Are you kidding? There is no way to build up a final battle with bowser, even back then, that's why in Mario RPG they had Smithy and made bowser the first joke boss because - let's face it, after that many defeats that's all a character can be. Hell, in Mario 3d World "Bowser's Fury" they had him become some godzilla thing and I still was about as excited and threatened as facing a goomba. If that doesn't show you a villain has become a joke through overuse I don't know what will.
I know it's delayed but hearing you talk about this games soundtrack makes me so excited for the mario and luigi video since the same composer from mario rpg returns and it's so fast and fun
"If I fail this action command I lose not only the fight, but all the progress through this dungeon." Isn't there a save block directly before Tutankoopa, and most bosses?
I still remember the Crystal Palace chapter of Paper Mario as one of the best moments I’ve ever experienced in gaming. It felt like such a fun adventure to solve that murder mystery, make that trek up the snowy mountain, defeat the Crystal King. It was just so awesome.
13:58 - I can definitely see where you're coming from with regards to Game Overs being an actual threat in some cases, but I don't think Paper Mario's the best example to demonstrate this when it comes to bosses because there's *almost* always a Save Block and a Heart Block right before them. If the game was more stingy about placing these I could definitely see it as more of a threat to progress. That being said, great video overall! It's interesting to see one of my all-time favorite games be given a retrospective from someone who's approaching it as more of a fan of Super Mario RPG.
I think the Save Block threat is more for the point-to-point aspect of enemy hordes, like going from the snow path, then a part of Crystal Palace, then the 2nd half. Just like other games though, the boss battle would look self-contained hence the refresh just before the battle.
I agree with it in regards to lives. A lot of platformers have the common collectible that liters the place of which collecting 100 grants you a life. I can't see how many of these can be done away with without losing a great deal of substance. I'm not sure how Crash 4 is but I cant imagine a hallway Crash game without Wumba fruit.
@@Darkfawfulx Crash 4 has a Classic mode where lives go down and Modern mode where death counts are done - you do need less than 3 deaths in a run to get a Gem though.
I know exactly what you mean by "being right on the cusp" of when a game like Paper Mario isn't cool. I'm fortunate that I never played it until my 20's. There was a lot from that era that I probably missed out because I was "too cool" for it haha.
Dude, I was part of the people who didn't give Windwaker a chance back when I was a kid, I feel ya. The way he puts it at the end of the video "I was just a little too old and a little too young to see it that way," is a very elegant summary of that phase we all seem to go through where we're so egar to be mature that we don't realise how immature we're acting. Edit: an important addition, I was also a kid who unironcally thought the Shadow the Hedgehog game was cool so this isn't the first time I've been in this picture and not liked it.
I was fortunate enough to find this game very soon after getting a hand-me-down N64 from an older cousin. It was my very first RPG, and the first game I really loved. I'm glad to see older people came back around to it - it's a real gem!
Luckily, I was never such a sheep. As an adolescent and teenager I played all games of quality, regardless of whether they were colourful and cartoon or serious and philosophical.
It’s so interesting to see a perspective on this game with nostalgia in the OTHER direction with so many other people wanting Paper Mario to go back to what it was in the early 2000s. I played this game on Wii virtual console as my first Mario RPG and it is still one of my favorite games. I just played The Thousand Year Door for the first time this year and it is definitely a different game from the first Paper Mario. It does many things both better and worse than the original. After the recent “debate” over the newer games it is refreshing to look back at the first Paper Mario. Also thank you for showing what Mario RPG means to its fans or at least to you. It really did set the groundwork for the other Mario RPGs and we probably won’t see anything like it again. Now is an annoying time to be a fan of Mario RPGs since both modern series are in trouble, but Mario RPG has been in a worse situation for far longer. Thank you for working so hard on this season!
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e The biggest problem with TTYD is the backtracking which wouldn’t be too bad if the spin was still there to make movement more interesting. (If Josh does an episode on TTYD it will be interesting to see what he thinks since he already thought PM64 had some time wastey stuff about it) There are some things I don’t like about the battles. I didn’t use special moves much since they take a long time and made battles less interesting for me. I think both games are equal in how good they are but I will prefer the original since it was my first rpg ever. TTYD definitely has better partners though and has a more wild out there kind of story.
Perspective. I think that's what I love about your videos. Not just hearing your personal perspective (of child you and current you), but your willingness to remark other potential perspectives and feel more informed as a result. Especially with Paper Mario as a series, there's been so much tiring back-and-forth and "betrayals" of what IS and what ISN'T a true game in the series. But this vid showed that even from Mario RPG to the first Paper game, there's always been a break in tradition and expectations. And every break deserves recognition for both its deviation from its predecessor and its carving of a new path. And I'm glad you addressed both your original unfair bias to the game and your newfound enjoyment of it. Keep being excellent.
The areas are pretty much always "back and forth, back and forth", with chapters 4, 5, 6 and the General White search being the worst offenders. The story and combat system might carry it but the "filler" he's describing is basically every chapter of TTYD.
@@Surgemaster2012 It's back and forth between the rooms of the train. There is a lot of plot going on and then there is that small empty station in the middle of the chapter. But the train itself is very small, linear and most of te chapter is carried on by the plot.
@@dukemon6163 Except in the train's case everything is confined within the train itself its not like Chapter 4 where the trips aren't connected and you have to go back and forth between the steeple and the trail. If I get the Chef's pot for instance the Chef is literally just a room away that you can give it to him as you progress the chapter. It isn't like you need an item, backtrack to the station then the train. Unlike Chapter 4 where even if you know Doopliss name you still need to go back to the steeple anyway. Also its a train, what do you expect it to be? Does the train need to have BOTW styled view? And the station isn't entirely empty either, as there are puzzles you do and enemies to fight, sure its minimal in amount compared to the plot. But that's the point. TTYD has padding, but the train is one of the least examples of it in the game because of traveling back and forth is less of a hassle, not to mention it only persists in day 1 which isn't even half of it. The second day is the station and the 3rd day is the boss fight and Poshley Heights. I can see in some cases where linearity is prelevant (even though Idk why people treat linearity like COVID 19) but the train is suppose to be like that by design. There isn't really anything you can do. But that's because both 64 and TTYD are linear games in their experience.
@@dukemon6163 The train at least has a lot of distractions, including the station. Overall it is the most underwhelming chapter on a repeat playthrough. 4 lets you try your luck on those Amazy Dayzees. 5 I get distracted by Flavio. It doesn't take terribly long to get around, and most rooms have some hidden goodie or an enemy to grind.
Personally, I love the final boss because it feels like something the whole game leads up to. Paper Mario is interesting because it takes the core conceit of an RPG, growing ever stronger, and places it at the heart of the story. Mario wasn't strong enough to beat Bowser the first time, but with the help of his new friends and allies throughout the world, he will be. Bowser, on the other hand, seeks power through wishes, without putting in the effort. In that way, one final slugfest feels like an appropriate, thematic way to end the story. Love the content TGC, and look forward to an eventual TTYD review.
Bowser was amazing in this game. He doesn't just sit in his castle waiting for you to show up. Instead, he is actively trying to put obstacles in your way during missions (probably shouldn't have asked Peach for help) and is preparing the stage to make the Star Spirits irrelevant. Not a lot matches the feeling of kid me seeing the one thing that could beat the star rod fail and wondering what is next.
@Vaquix it's kind of sad that your enjoyment of something is stifled by the fact that you have done it in other games. You must hate lots of stuff with that mentality. Hopefully, you get in a better place someday.
Very interesting to see such a different point of view on this game. It’s kinda funny how these days we all kinda view these old games in a vacuum, compared to back then when they were just as discussed and debated as games released today. Personally, as someone just over 21, This was one of my favorite games growing up and alongside its sequel and Pokemon, sparked my current love for RPGs. Great review as usual, dude! Lovin’ this retrospective series so far.
Great analysis. Paper Mario 64 was my "sick" game when I was a kid. I had the flu and my grandma spoiled me by buying this brand new mario game for me so that I could feel better. Had no idea what to think of the game, but I loved every minute of it. And the TTYD was even better. Haven't played either one in many years so i'm definitely filled with nostalgia, but this was a very enjoyable video and made me want to replay the game! Thanks for making it
I'm eagerly awaiting that episode as well. For as great as this game was, I couldn't believe how much the sequel improved on it. Both are so flipping good
@Rock Golem chapter 4 in TTYD is a bit of back and forth, but it's tied into a unique storyline and it's not remotely as drawn out as the Shy Guy Toy box. So he will probably critique it but I'd be shocked if he was as harsh on it
@Rock Golem While I could really live without him - I think not having General White feels like it's not part of thE TTYD experience. The snow Bob-ombs are not the warmest people out there, and you have to go through hoops for them. Then you get frustrated and release all frustration towards him at the end. It isn't the first time you do this in the series, the Goompa letter in this was the first example. For a completionist, it just feels like a running gag.
@Rock Golem Well it typically is without the viewer being involved into it, but it depends on the person, especially if they have a bit twisted sense of humor.
I love how you manage to tell your side of the story in your reviews. I've already played and loved Paper Mario for years but watching you review it wasn't just seeing you talk about stuff I already knew, it was showing me your personal experience with it, which is far more interesting. Great work as always!
I adore how you let the intro speak for itself. Anyone who knows even a little about the story of the Paper Mario franchise knows exactly what you're getting across without you even needing to mention it. Also, 18:29 put a big smile on my face :)
@Pinchars ABitch it was less criticism and more “why did they call this game paper Mario there’s nothing paper about it.” Even TTYD is way more paper with the plane and boat abilities.
Funny story, actually. Back when I was a kid, I first played TTYD expecting it to be a "Paper" Mario experience; more like what you'd see with the series nowadays. The sad part is that I lost interest and stopped playing it, so returning it to Blockbuster didn't make me feel upset that much. However, it wasn't until I played Super Paper Mario that I regained great interest in the series. I bought a used copy of TTYD and fell in love, then I followed up with the N64 version. When Sticker Star was announced, I was ecstatic that turn-based combat would return. And then things went downhill from then on ... Honestly, it's really ironic how the Paper Mario that I initially expected as a kid is the bread and butter of the franchise today. Kid me wanted paper aesthetics and got an RPG, but now adult me wants an RPG and just has paper aesthetics. The irony is almost laughable.
@@fishactivation5087 Wait, so the entire franchise got ruined because they kept changing it to better match the western title of the game? Man, I wish the developers had said "meh, screw you" and just kept making decent games instead of going "Oh they want paper, here's a paper airplane that controls like arse, here's some stickers, here's some paint, BTW we ruined the game parts of the game KTHXBAI"
Glad I never went through that “trying to look like an adult when I’m only 12/13” point in my life. Mostly because I had friends that didn’t do that either thankfully. So I didn’t feel the need to try and be an adult when I was still young.
It's been ages since I played the original Paper Mario, but I still have fond memories of it- this and your Mario RPG review really awakened that feeling of nostalgia I have for both games. It's a shame, though VERY understandable, that you'll be putting off Mario and Luigi for now. Still, looking forward to seeing you give it a shot whenever you've got the time and motivation for another RPG! Or even The Thousand Year Door- your insightful review here definitely made me curious and eager to see what your thoughts on that one would be, and how much or how little the sequel innovated and improved on the formula.
Sometimes I wonder if there's a "Mario-verse" split in three alternate dimensions or universes between Super Mario, Paper Mario, and Mario and Luigi. It's known in Mario and Luigi:Paper Jam that the two universes are apart. Seeing M&L Mario and Paper Mario team up was awesome. 😎
it's really interesting seeing how much you disliked chapter 4, when it's my favorite chapter lol. i guess the different sections of the toybox never felt all that repetitive to me, and they were small enough that i didn't mind backtracking through them. plus, i thought it was really cool to see toad town, the main hub of the game, in danger. being able to help out all of these characters that you'd gotten to know over the course of the game felt really rewarding to me.
I have found the Toy Box theme to be more repetitive and grating than the rest of the soundtrack in my experience. But I think the Toybox is a really solid chapter, and placing the small toy train into the box, watching it essentially grow into the size of a 4 door sedan, is a top 10 Paper Mario moment for me.
"Real Game Overs are becoming a lost art" combines with your "hidden value of old-school game design" to make me notice something you might find interesting - these things very much still exist in various roguelike injections into assorted genres. These games focus on repeating similar-but-varied environments, learning good habits to do better every time, and each death starting you off from (usually) zero with the main gain being knowledge, experience and practice. To be honest, as someone who doesn't find "normal" game overs remotely appealing, I still love the roguelike formula. While my main draw to it (as I boiled down to 2 words in a job interview for a game designer position on one such game) is "forced variety," the core of it is to keep the progress being your knowledge and skill as a player applied to varied-but-controlled novel situations. Of course, I could go on for hours about the ups-and-downs of the roguelike formula, and various ways it's been applied, but it seems to me to be almost *exactly* game developers trying to preserve the appeal you found in the way old-school games framed their challenge.
I can second he might like roguelikes. I also really hate normal game overs, but in the right roguelike, death does not feel like failure as much as a learning opportunity, and as such is no longer a punishment with forced repetition but instead a tally-up of how well you did (and the good ones do still reward you for what you did RIGHT) and an invitation to play again with a different scenario.
@@MidoriMushrooms The issue is, the roguelikes I've been involved with (whether working on, chatting with devs or just playing a lot) to various degrees more directly are all of the deckbuildery variety (or *actual* "games like Rogue") - stuff like Binding of Isaac or the much more meta-progression-heavy Rogue Legacy (I think that had a sequel?) are something I'm loosely aware of on an academic level but can't really speak to how they appeal to old-school gamers, if at all. I'd actually be pretty curious to hear - from you or anyone - how well some of those games scratch the same itch you might be nostalgic for. A lot of why I watch TGC is because he, to be blunt, loves everything I hate, and is one of a number of people I really enjoy watching because of that, since as a(n indie) game designer it's very much in my interest to understand where lots of different perspectives are coming from.
@A Gamer Aaron Changing up the format is definitely a difference, and I'm someone who enjoys both types - I love turning up the difficulty of a game and then save-scumming, trying the same (usually self-caused) scenario over and over until I figure out how to thread the needle to victory - but it still feels the essential skills being tested line up pretty well, and in many of those games the different map you approach with doesn't change that, for example, the boss has a learn-able pattern and knowing how to dodge it perfectly will apply regardless of what "gear" you show up to it with. At its heart though at some point we're just hitting the limits of the term "roguelike" - trying to cover everything from very random-heavy heavy card games to still mostly-skill-based shooters and platformers. There's definitely some of them where just learning an enemy's idiosyncrasies will be the most important lesson, and regardless of the context next time, your lessons learned can apply - and there's gonna be games more based on risk management and number-crunching. For instance the "lack of level design" isn't the case for a few games off the top of my head which use a medium-sized pool of hand-crafted levels populated in semi-random ways, and where bosses always have their own dedicated arena. Generally though, "skill growth via repetition" has the same split that a lot of games have - Josh alluded to this in "the difference between how I'm good at Sonic Adventure 2 vs 2D Sonic games" thing - the difference between knowing the exact layout and idiosyncrasies of the level in question, vs knowing all the quirks and tendencies of the game's engine and overall design. It sounds like you might just prefer the first to the second - I know I prefer the latter, and find just learning the layout of a pre-built map via repetition about as fun as cramming for a test.
I'm not a big fan of roguelikes, but I prefer the ones where you lose ALL progress upon death. It's kinda weird getting powerups/ perks between deaths because it's like you're being awarded for failing. IMO the Souls series handle game overs really well, where the games autosave and the only thing you lose for dying is potential money/ exp.
@@Silbotronic To be fair, in a lot of those games you get even *more* for successes, which is kind of prone to creating a string of like "fail fail fail fail succeed succeed succeed succeed succeed succeed" until you just start forcing extra challenges on yourself. That's kind of a fundamental problem with difficulty curves as a whole, though, since it's undercutting the fundamental concept of "games gets harder the longer you play" - it's basically a case of the game getting easier as you keep playing and you're never sure if you "got good" or if it just became easier by so much your original baseline skill was enough to succeed. I'm not really sure you're being comprehensive enough on Souls games - they also cost *time*. For a lot of people there's a big difference between "lose EXP that'd cost me 15 minutes to grind back up" and "literally just have to re-play the last 5 minutes of stuff I already know how to do." Of course Souls(-like) Games are more complex there, and they themselves have changed somewhat, since there's also the element of "do the same thing again, but try to do it even cleaner so you get to whatever terminally challenged you with more resources to spare." It's a pretty complicated topic. I'm kind of starting to appreciate what a loaded term I brought up just in terms of how many equally-valid directions people's thoughts went in response.
Did anyone else expect Jr Troopa to be the final partner? I thought he would admit defeat and join up or decide to follow mario more closely to get stronger.
I love that you have so much footage of your childhood and proudly feature it in your videos! Also I see that 2XL robot you had, my family had one too!
26:18 but does Mario Party 3 count? Outside of Japan that was the last Mario game for the N64. Here are the release months in North America Paper Mario: February 2001 Dr. Mario 64: April 2001 Mario Party 3: May 2001
37:25 you brought up the baking one and it reminded of how due to an overflow you can bake a cake for 40 something odd years and the game will treat it as if you baked it for the correct time. Always find that funny.
It's kind of strange to see someones thoughts on this game being a sequel to a game I've never played. My first experience with this series was Super Paper Mario, and that game is about as different from the original formula as it could be, even all the way back in 2010.
Even if it was, kinda like SMRPG, SPM still did have the feel of a Mario RPG, like a Kingdom Hearts style spin-off, so it isn't really that far off from the originals (especially compared to the Papercraft Mario games).
One other detail- as a 90s kid, Kolorado reminded me a lot of Nigel Thornberry from the Wild Thornberrys. One of my favorite characters in the game, absolutely love it when he says “old boy.”
46:25 this was either the best time to fire back up Sonic Generations, or the worst. I was playing this massive love letter to the entire fandom up to that point, but it also reminded me of how fractured the community has been since 1998. The jump to 3D cracked the community in two. More so with SA2B on the Gamecube and Heroes on Ps2 and Xbox. Also this was a fantastic video! It kinda reminded me of when you critiqued Sonic Advance 3. How a rough start swore you off, and didn’t see it as anything else until a decade (or in this case two decades) later.
If Super Mario RPG was largely a Final Fantasy game cosplaying in a Mario skin, Paper Mario took that playbook and then went and had lunch with Dragon Quest and came away impressed. Charming, genuine, earnest, cozy, familiar, fairy tale-esque-all of these words get used to try and capture the tone of DQ *constantly*, and the heavy focus on situation-driven storytelling where you roll into town and spend a while soaking in the sights and culture before stumbling into whatever problems the locals have rather than being constantly swept up in a grand, party character-driven narrative is also right on point. Heck, even the wholly linear, permanent armor and weapon system could be seen as a throwback to DQ1's solo protagonist doing the same thing.
The commentary on nostalgia and growing up is tear-jerkingly beautiful to me please help I've never heard "a little too old and a little too young" before but it makes so much sense for so many things
I finally finished this game a few days ago, as I really wanted to play it before the remake of thousand year door. It's kinda strange that it took me this long. We are basically the same age and back in 2001 I started the game but never played it more than maybe 2 hours. A few years ago I tried it again but same result. 2 Hours and it lost me. No idea why, but this time I "forced" myself to go further and what can I say? I so loved it! Such an amazing and cute game, it was so much fun! And now I am even more hyped for Thousand year door :) Thanks for your video by the way. Watched it back in the day when you uploaded it, but now rewatching it felt totally different since now I really knew the details of the game myself. Have a good one and would love to see more Video from you about the Paper Mario Games 👍🏻
I remember getting this game in 2001 for my 7th birthday. Would go to school each day and would talk to my friends about it. Only one of us had a printer so we would ask for them to print off pages from CheatsCC and other cheat/walkthrough forums. It was a much simpler time.
2020 has been crazy, was laid off from two jobs and am still just trying to get back on my feet. Funny enough I began to wonder where your videos have been. So excited to watch this! You’re helping this year go out on a high note, liked!!
I think I find myself on the other side of the mirror when it comes to this game: where Josh and a lot of other people I've seen both here on UA-cam and outside of the internet had SMRPG growing up, I had The Thousand Year Door growing up instead. Having played the 3rd Mario RPG so early in my development really colored my expectations of what role-playing games could be, so when I tried going back to play the original Paper Mario, I simply couldn't get invested. So much of it felt like a step back compared to what I had already played, which I admit should be natural due to the nature of sequels, but despite the charm the game has, I always end up feeling like I should be playing TTYD instead. Oddly enough, when I played SMRPG for the first time, I didn't feel that way compared to Paper Mario. I'll find some time to give this game another good try. Thanks for another good video, Josh.
i loved gourmet guy so much as a kid, i kept a save file SPECIFICALLY so i could give him the cake, watch him do his thing, reset, and watch it as many times as i wanted. i started a new file to progress past that
idk if I would call Chapter 4 and 6 filler sounds like a case of impatience Yoshi's were such a big part of SMRPG, first 2 PM's and first 2 Mario and Luigi's it's a shame they never do anything with them in the later PM games, Dream Team had some Yoshi NPC's but never a big role. The Lava Piranha boss was a ref to Naval Piranha too Hearing the part about action command variety and star specials you'll be greatly surprised with TTYD... idk if this is a sorta spoiler
Honestly this was fun to watch… my favorite bit was the DK64 song remix… right before 34:29. I honestly didn’t realize why it felt so familiar but thought it was really fun and then I saw the note. Solid style emulation
Josh, these videos mean so much to me. I've watched almost every video on your channel and they helped me get through really though times, and I'm so glad that you're finally getting the attention you deserve. So, for the bottom of my heart, thank you. Thank you for being passionate about what you do, and helping my be just as passionate.
You’re one of the best at what you do, TGC. I watched your Metroid reviews a while back but now I’m finally checking other reviews and I’m loving it. Keep up the great work, my man.
Using Mario's use of compartmentalized level mechanics to transition into specific enemy types requiring specific attacks by the player was just... so clean. The way you see games is so different than me; but always incredible. I wish I didnt have plans so I could watch it all at once
Paper Mario was the first game I ever beat all by myself as a kid. Before that my much older brother would usually show me the ropes and get me on my way. But Paper Mario was the first time I just sat down with a game totally by myself and bit by bit I got through it until I finally beat it. And when I replayed it for the first time in years as an adult I found that not only was it still good but that it was still one of my all time favorites. Fantastic game. So happy to see you cover it man, great work as always
I really wish Nintendo would release the first three Paper Mario games on the switch. I really long to play these games again especially after your video. Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't seem to want anything to do with the older Paper Mario games anymore. Such a waste...
@SpaceMen While I agree, Origami King is definitely a Paper Mario game-a refreshing step for the franchise from its recent entries, one of the big problems I have with these games (Nintendo in general sometimes) is that they just want it to be different. I’m mainly referring to the gameplay, I like innovation, creativity, something Origami King definitely has with its puzzle combat, (at least for the series) but it really feels like something that could have been its own thing; a different franchise. Origami King is so far from previous iterations of Paper Mario as is, but the Sudoku-like combat system feels like it shouldn’t be tagged on-as the main-core loop and premise of the game in my opinion. It just feels so different, like it could have easily been its own IP or a totally new spinoff but instead it just has to be slapped onto one of the main spinoff series more than it feels like even a spiritual successor let alone any kind of game in the series. Different isn’t always better, though in Origami King’s case, I’m happy with it but I can’t help but feel a little longing for even a slight return to something more “traditional” too. I would definitely say: They lost me. Not in the sense of being a fan, in the sense of... for a while I somewhat looked the other way when it came to Paper Mario and it’s many handheld entries, because I still felt like I had Mario & Luigi games, which really gave me those feelings I miss from old Paper Mario, even as far as Bowser’s Inside Story in the series. Now, I feel like Nintendo has taken that away as well, it’s really losing its luster to me and is starting to feel that similar course PM took, which made me disappointed even more. I just really would enjoy something simpler or rather not 10k iq new spin on everything.
I don't bear any particular ill feelings towards the new ones, but the first three just hit different. Super is my personal favorite, probably due to nostalgia. Idk how they'd manage the controls, though
You made my day at around 16:00 when you pointed out the same main issue I have with JRPGs, while simultaneously cutting to Secret of Mana (a game that I enjoy but am also frustrated by for the same reason you shared). Awesome video
Thanks! Yeah, I had an enjoyable hour with Secret of Mana back when the SNES Classic first came out, then came back a few months later and had completely lost track of what I was doing.
@@GeekCritique yeah, I had the same thing happen to me when I finally got around to it back over the summer. I had a blast with the game but, I wanna say a bit past the 50% mark through it, the game opens up and becomes less linear. While that’s usually a good thing, it also leads to revisiting a bunch of areas from earlier in the game and, without a quest log to remind you where you need to go, and the fact that the games map doesn’t even label locations, it just became a bit unmanageable for someone who usually only games for an hour or two every few days after work
The correct strategy for this game was to always level up badge points, because you could always spend the badge points on the HP+ and or the FP+. And then if u didn't need either of those things u could switch badges easily.
That last part about missing out is touching. Cause I know too how that felt. I've always dismissed myself for being on the wrong side of the fence. But I've been reaching out to try new things, things that everyone else enjoyed. It's why I love your videos, I can relate to some of the parts while learning new things.
I never in a million years thought I would hear somebody call Paper Mario "unabashedly challenging." I know it's not really your genre, but still. These games are great. TTYD was my gateway drug, and I've been playing old JRPGs ever since.
Quite the prominent use of Undertale music in this one. I guess that speaks volumes about your musical preference, as I'm certain there would be less of it if you loved more of the music from Paper Mario. Always a fantastic analysis and a grade-A video! I have yet to finish this game after starting it on the Wii U Virtual Console, but I love what it has to offer so far. Undertale was the RPG to actually get me into RPGs, and I am so thankful for it. It got me to play and complete Chrono Trigger, and I had a blast with it. Looking forward to finishing Paper Mario one day soon, and cheers to your ongoing endeavors!
Excellent video. I really wish they would bring this game and several you have talked about to the switch. Such as the prime trilogy, Mario rgp, OOT and majoras mask.
I played paper mario when I was young and while I may not remember all of it the series brings me a fondness. I love this game even though I have yet to complete it. I remember when I would mess around in the boo manor trying to get 8 bit Mario out of the room, or how the times my father would come and help me progress, and the times my brother would be there the two of us somehow getting to chapter 5. Its great to come back some times and try to get farther, and make it through those parts that perplexed me as a child. I have a lot of fond memories with this game and this video helps me to Remember my love of this game.
That final monologue, the Dark Side of Nostalgia, sums up so much of my opinion about Paper Mario. I loved the first two games, no question. But you know what? I loved what came after them also. I still think Super Paper Mario is the best in the series, I actually enjoyed Sticker Star and Color Splash, and Origami King is a completely worthy successor to the original two. Because I chose to enjoy them for what they were, rather than hate them for what they weren't. Meanwhile, so many other Paper Mario fans just can't seem to look past their nostalgia for the first two games and insist on hating the next four because of that. And all I can say is, I pity those people.
@k ? No, kiddo, they don't. Not one of you have ever given those games a fair chance. They weren't Thousand Year Door 2, so you just auto-hated them. And on the rare occasion you lot actually try to explain what's so "terrible" about them, all you ever do is nit-pick tiny problems and blow them completely out of proportion. The later Paper Mario games are far from perfect, but they aren't terrible. You'd see that if you had the wherewithal to understand the difference between your opinions and actual objective facts.
Funny, I feel the opposite. I loved how your actions in Chapter 6 made a difference in the flower spirits' lives, whereas Chapter 4 lacked that extra little spice for me.
I hated Chapter 6, is fucking unnecesary and I would lover way more that the Flower things was something optional more thant something FORCED, I was lucky that I collected all the seeds because I thought it was "optional" but when I see that was something the game was going to force you to do really annoyed me, and all the "Campos Floridos"(idk the English name, srry) area makes me feel whacky and dumb, I love the soundtrack but when you clear the sky the music gets ANNOYING. And also, whatever the cloud boss name is, was a short and boooooring boss fight.
You have a remarkable talent, geek. You take games I've heard of but never played, games that never sounded interesting, and pitch them from such a loving, insightful perspective that I'm almost jealous of the fun you've had.
Funny, I always liked PM and TTYD way more than I liked SMRPG (and I played SMRPG first! and love it too, just not as much). I can't really put my finger on why. I just do. I think I'm a bit younger than you (born late 91) though. Sounds like you were in your I'M A BIG BOY TEEN now phase a few years before I was, so that could be a factor.
For sure! If Paper Mario had come out earlier in the N64's life and I'd played it as a kid, I think I'd have LOVED it back then. And actually, I think that's probably a reason the "Mario RPG" and "Paper Mario" fandoms are pretty segregated, now. I know lots of people like me who skipped Paper Mario and its sequels, feeling they were "too old" for it. And likewise, I've gotten comments from people who've played tons of PM and M&L games, but could never gel with Mario RPG, because IT seemed "too old" to them!
@@GeekCritique I played PM first before SMRPG although I still am a fan of the latter (isometric 3D in a 2D console fascinates me) - I will say it does feel a bit old to me personally, and does feel a bit similar to many big number RPGs compared to PM which seamlessly translates the platforming mechanics to the RPG and makes it more RPG as you go on.
This is really the only turn based RPG style game I’ve ever returned to. Several times too! As a kid this story blew my mind, it seemed like nothing could be bigger than Peach’s castle being lifted into space and the star gods being kidnapped. What hope could there be, besides Mario?! It was also the first type of game like this I ever finished. Nothing ever let you explore the mushroom kingdom quite like this at the time. The parts where you play as Peach also we’re mind blowing. Like WHAT?! You can play as someone besides Mario?!?! It truly changed my life.
"How dare something I loved as a child, continue to appeal to children after I've stopped being one." I'd say that that line rings true now more than ever with the recent Paper Mario games . . . . If they were actually as good as the ones before them . . . .
I don’t even think kids are into Paper Mario anymore. Maybe I’m just stupid, but I feel like the ring battle system is way too convoluted and I can’t see myself liking it as a kid. I probably would’ve liked Sticker Star if I was a child when I played it tho
I don't comment, or even sign in, too often, but your speech at the end reminded me of something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while. The whole speech at the end reminded me of another Paper Mario game, the most recent one to be specific. For a while, people who enjoyed the newest Paper Mario have been insulted by fans of the older ones, like myself, however, I don't necessarily share their sentiment. I feel like that game has its own charm that sort of makes it something else, something not quite Paper Mario. Is that a bad thing? No. Do I hate the game for it? No. Do I want to play it? No... it doesn't really appeal to me. Am I going to make fun of anyone who plays and enjoys it? Absolutely not. It's always a strange feeling when something you once enjoyed becomes something completely different, and something that no longer appeals to you, but I've learned to just quietly support it for the fact that it's still alive, rather than insult it for not being what it once was. Again, let's take the new Paper Mario as an example. It's almost not an RPG, coins are almost pointless, and the partner mechanic seems sort of slapped on there, however, you wouldn't really notice these faults unless you played and loved the old games, and, even to some people who have, they can just see past the differences, and enjoy it anyways. That being said, those of you who have only played the newest Paper Mario game, go ahead, try the old ones. They won't be the same, and they'll be lacking some quality of life features, but I promise you that they're at least good, while also taking your word for it that the newest one is also good for what it is, rather than for what the old games were. I doubt I'm going to change anyone's mind here, but, newer fans, remember that not all of us older fans are like the idiots and jerks who tease you, and older fans, just accept that the newer fans enjoy the new game, and that the game can be enjoyed, as a surprising amount of effort was put into it.
Woah, I didn't even expect this video, let alone so soon after your Super Mario RPG one!! Not that I'm complaining, I'm glad that Mr. Geek Critique gave us all Christmas a week in advanced, hehe.
I wonder what would’ve happened if the game was called Mario Story overseas. I could imagine that they would probably start using the Paper Mario name overseas from Sticker Star onwards.
@@randomduck8679 Interestingly that was the promotion given by Japan - it was 3D Mario explaining what he has done already, Party, Golf, etc. But what he hasn't done yet is an "adventure", although it does seem to forget SMRPG with that, hehe.
im extremely happy i found this channel i got choked up at the end when you said i was a little to old and a little to young hit me so hard i felt the emotiong this channel is just amazing keep up the amazing work!
Game over's are fine in most games, you need to have a sense of loss in most games or else the game just plays itself and it makes you winning more rewarding. I feel like there's been a lot of impatience recently, I remember this one dude made a video complaining about losing like 2 secs between Mario Maker 2 deaths and making it seem like a massive game breaking deal
@@train4292 Yeah him, I tried to get his point but he really just came off as just extremely impatience, grown man complaining about waiting for 2 secs
@@gleamingroses2952 tbh in this videos case and some comments on this video it sounds like people just need to save more often, been a while since I played 64 but I'm pretty sure there's save blocks like in front of most of the bosses in the game so idk how much progress your actually loosing
@@gleamingroses2952 hmm I've been thinking about this for a while, I wonder if it has to do with just modern gaming culture, like streamers try and do a much content in a game in their air time so they try to rush things and UA-camrs try to speed play a game just to work on their videos instead of sitting back and enjoying it at a normal pace
You're only like, 10 years older than me at most (I turn 22 in January), and yet, your videos are so intricate and pleasant to listen to that it's like listening to a grandpa telling stories of the good old golden days. (I hope you don't take that the wrong way lol) Ever since I've finished the Metroid series, I've always found myself coming back to binge your videos on the series, and they were really welcome given how chaotic 2020 has been! I'm very excited (and simultaneously terrified because of it's split opinions) to hear you talk about Super! You can probably tell given my profile how much I love it, and I can only hope you can see what I do in it.
46:10 - 46:53 This sounds like it is in reference to fandom wars over "TTYD vs. The Origami King", in which it comes off as a bit weird to me (But it could be anything else tbh. If it wasn't, then I apologize, however it is still relevant to the topic). I understand the sentiment and I agree with it in a general sense, as do most, probably. But in the case of Origami King, while there are those who hate it because it's different from TTYD, it goes both ways. I've seen plenty of people ignoring the real, fundamental problems that Origami King has and push it off as "they hate it simply because it's different". The Origami King has problems that are so deep that it breeds concern within other Nintendo games. No, I don't mean the idea that they won't do an RPG again. I mean the inability to make new, original characters, just as an example (of which they are what the creator behind Origami King himself said). Origami King is a deeply flawed game, but you can't say that without having your opinion dismissed on the basis that "not everything has to be like TTYD", even though that's not the point. Or that it's "for kids", as though that's an excuse for it to be bad; That somehow you can't have something all-ages, like the early Paper Mario games. So what I'm saying is that: with anything comparisons between new and old will take place, as you were basically saying as well. Except that the vocal minority, on _both_ sides, will hate on the other for no good reason. Meaning that it makes it tough for the real criticisms to shine through, as they are thrown aside under the label of "hate", a similar sentiment that you see in a lot of social "issues". This applies to anything, but the Origami King was relevant is all. I also really enjoyed the video as well.
I have been watching this video in segments, and my god is this a lovely review if you split it up like a series. You actually will want to get your popcorn ready, 10/10 amazing video!
i love how in his notes it's all about how different and fun the game is and then just "The goomba dad looks like my dad"
his dad is goomba too?
Something I want to point out, on the “slow start and story front-loading” segment:
I played this as a 9 or 10 year old, but as someone who wasn’t born in an English-speaking country. On one hand it is one of the games I attribute to having learned English so early; not knowing the language the game is written in gives it a COMPLETELY different perspective.
Me and my friend got stuck in the desert on the “Starts with L, ends with EMON” part, but up until that part we trial and errored our way forth, and having things be so clear to us, in just imaging was what made us love this game.
We didn’t know what the Star-Spirits said, we didn’t know where we were meant to go based on hints.
But seeing Mario fall out of the castle, getting to play Peach between chapters made us understand the game’s story without being able to read it.
We ended up having to sit there with a borrowed dictionary, whenever we got stuck (which was OFTEN), but it was so worth it to get through this game as kids.
Looking back, it’s amazing to me that a game which is so text-based can also be so accessible to people who doesn’t know what the game is telling you with words. We started by learning with what it showed us!
That's pretty amazing!
That’s actually really cool
This is one of the best comments I’ve ever read on UA-cam.
That's really cool! It reminds me of when I watched Cartoon Network shows when I was a kid, back when, as a non English-speaking kid in a non English-speaking country, I didn't understand English all that well, and yet Cartoon Network was all in English. But I didn't care! I got a couple words here and there (I sure could read a decent amount of English, but not exactly understand it when spoken), but most of all, I saw the characters' actions, which spoke a lot more by themselves.
Ed, Edd n' Eddy was the best example for me. Even back then, even when I didn't understand most of what they said, I knew Ed was about as dumb as a bag of rocks, yet was also a loyal and friendly kid who's... both unhealthily obsessed with monster movies and unhealthy in general. Double D was the smartest and skillful of the group... so long as it didn't involve any sort of physical work, and with his organization, obedience and tidiness, comes also some paranoia, fear of authority and lack of social skills (should I mention I kinda related to him the most?).
And of course there's Eddy, the one that was truly a jerk, all interested in making it big, getting those quarters with dubious schemes and scams aplenty, getting those sweet Jawbreakers at all costs, even if it meant cashing in at the cost of the other kids in the cul-de-sac... which is no wonder why he and his pals were always seen as "the Eds", the outcasts. Because, for as dimwitted as Ed was (and how much that awful sister of his despised him, but no worries, we all despise her too), and how socially awkward Edd was, it's not like the other kids were "normal" either. Kevin's obsession with his bike; Rolf with his odd-ball mannerisms, sayings and traditions; Nazz wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the toolbox either; Johnny... as in, him as a whole... you get the idea. Ed and Edd could sorta fit right in, with the occasional "oh-so-original" insult from Kevin aside.
And yet, it was mostly Eddy's fault that the other Eds couldn't fit in, since they always stuck together in his schemes and devious plans.
So yeah, I guess one of the most important things in media for kids to do right isn't to tell a simple, basic story. Rather, it is tell a story in a way that could be well understood by the characters' actions and a couple of words alone, as complex of a story as it can be.
Same experience, as span8sh speaker this game was really Hard but i enjoyed so much anyway
you didn't even mention Luigi's diary, one of the best insights into his character, especially before Luigi's mansion.
I definitely would have, but I never found it! I always shut out other videos, reviews, guides, and opinions about a game while I'm working on it, but once the episode was done, I watched a Stryder7x video where he casually mentioned it, and I was like, "...aw, man."
@@GeekCritique that sucks man, I found it by pure chance, and it was one of my favorite finds, its so wholesome yet also weirdly somber to find it and read about the aspirations of a character that was orginally just a tool for multiplayer
@@GeekCritique I'd do some research on Stryder7x before watching the rest of his stuff. He had some pretty nasty domestic violence allegations pointed at him for a year or so now. Not sure if that ever got resolved in anyway but it didn't look good.
@@GeekCritique well you have something to look forward to on your next playthough
@@WaddleDee105 His videos are still good, I feel bad for him. He basically got nuked, and as outsiders we can't be sure what is 100% real.
This is the Paper Mario breakdown I've been trying to make for years.
Kudos to you Josh. The youtube-verse is filled with folks giving a quick gloss over history, lore, what the game is, and that's about it.
But you introduce another element. PERSPECTIVE. And I love that, because its presented in such a way that even folks who don't have a shared experience/similar experience will enjoy the video, and become interested in the subject matter.
Love it. Keep it up!
Why does this comment say 6 days ago even though this video was uploaded an hour ago
@@cgrn17 probably because of patreon
One thing I love about the game is in fact how... immersive the world is. For a game released in the N64, there's a ton of dialogue that changes depending on your actions. Every NPC has a name, and depending on the chapter, they may change their location and what they're doing. While the partners can be paper-thin (ha) with regards to personality at times, they all have a place in the world and people they interact with. For example, you can make Kooper talk to Kolorado and he'll gush over his idol. And you mentioned Mario receiving letters, but if you go to the post office, each of the partners also receive letters from friends and family, worried about them. It helps with the feeling that you're helping these people out and that your actions have an impact, which is an odd feeling to feel about a Mario game.
The game in general just has such a crazy level of attention to detail (something the next two games also nail) it's honestly crazy. It makes the world so much more fun to explore than most RPGs. I always yearn to return to Toad Town to see what's changed; like at one point Goombario's family goes there and you can just hang out with them. Someone at Intelligent Systems wrote a crapton of tattle dialogue for Goombario that most players won't see, but someone will, and it rewards that player's curiosity.
EDIT: also, that whole "people wanting something to be just like when they were children" speech is gonna be very relevant next time you cover Sonic games, haha
Having all that extra dialogue and scenes sounds like it would make the world come alive.
I wondered before what would happen if games got intelligent AI in the future. It would feel we're talking to a real person in game and the whole game world would be the Matrix. Then could game characters break the fourth wall and realize they're in a game world?
I remember chapter 2 having a unique Goombario comment for every single room in the desert
@@TheDiego908 holy crap, I didn't know that, that's fantastic!
Played Mario RPG and then like Geek Critque played Paper Mario. I hated it. I made only 3 attempts at playing it. When i was a kid, beat the first boss, and I couldn't care about it. So I stopped because I had other better games to play. 2nd attempt when I went into collecting games after high school, i played and i felt like i force myself to the 3 boss and just couldn't care. Finally 3rd attempt, when i was in the Army deployed i had my laptop with emulators of every system/game. Since there is nothing to do. i decide to beat it since i had friends praising it. Beat it and I can tell you. It still sucks, i dont care about it. The only nice things was the partners, but you could only have 1 at a time. and thats it the only good thing in my eyes about it.
This is just my opinion i can see why others like it but when comparing to SMRPG this falls waaaaaaaaaaay short.
I made no attempts at any of the other Paper Mario games. I do play Mario & Luigi sagas. They feel so much more closer to SMRPG
Having played through Paper Mario recently (as a lifelong RPG veteran,) mechanically it's definitely Baby's First JRPG. But the attention to detail in that game is incredible, and, with Goombario as my default companion I saw pretty much all of his Tattles and screen tidbits.
I've gone and played other JRPGs since, and after Paper Mario it's a little jarring when the townspeople don't have something new to say after each of my notable accomplishments.
I hear The Thousand Year Door is even better, but I'm going to have to wait for retro game prices to come down, or for GC emulator that will run on my phone.
"I didn't judge it for what it was; I dismissed it for what it wasn't."
If I had a dollar for every time my friends did that shit to something I liked...
bruh moment for them I guess
Welcome to my world friend, we got muffins.
You like things I don't?! You must be a moron probably! My opinions are facts, after all!
Felt that lol
Right!?!? And then 10 yrs later ur friends are like "hey have u heard of this🤪???" Then your like...."yea....😮💨"
I've gotten comments from people who missed both Mario RPG AND Samus Returns, because UA-cam never notified or recommended them. MY wish on the Star Spirits is that UA-cam stops fiddling around with subscriptions.
So I guess I'd better remind you to ring the bell to please the algorithm. Maybe they won't screw around with that one! Thank you everyone, happy holidays, and I hope you enjoy the episode! This was SO much fun to put together.
Happy Holidays, Mr. Josh! And congratulations on getting Married!
Merry Holidays!
I still want true super Mario rpg 2
hi i came down here because at 8:00 the way tabletop RPGs was described is a bit reductive.
I get they have a reputation for being RNG-laden wargames but most of them are not, roleplaying and clever solutions matter a lot more than raw stats and numbers, and video game RPGs lost something HUGE in translation that really, no AI can make up for. Really, there's a type of freedom that can only exist in TTRPGs with a real person capable of human sentience running the game instead of a program.
I also get it was for the sake of simplicity but a lot of people who grew up with video games actually do think TTRPGs are all crunch and no flavor that huge math nerds play and that's only a subset of the total community. D:
TBF, D&D (the most popular one) got its start as a wargame, but branched out a lot from that on 3rd edition and that was also when other systems like call of cthulhu cemented a place in those spaces (which is way more focused on clever solutions than rolling high) and many modern systems that exist today like FATE and Open Legend are a lot more about roleplaying.
anyway i know this is a big post and probably not that many people care but if I've sparked the interest of anyone who has only heard of tabletop games in passing, PLEASE give them a try sometime, they are wholly a unique experience and actually pretty unalike video games. (yes i am literally shilling for a niche hobby rn please don't kill me)
Hey Greek Critique before you end the Metroid train forever, can you do a final recap video divulging your thoughts on the entire series, how you’d rank the games, and all that stuff. (Also you never played Federation Force)
“Let’s take off those rose-tinted glasses”
*plays clip of 2001 Josh taking off glasses*
Josh was nostalgic about the games of his childhood even when he was 13 years old, long before all those other posers started doing this.
This is the second most ominous thumbnail I've ever seen in my life
Personally, I really wanna see the first most ominous thumbnail.
The current Sonic '06 video thumbnail sounds like it could be a contender.
Second? I felt attacked by that thumbnail.
It not only spooked me it broke into my house in dead of night, shook me until I awoke, then slapped me with a mackerel before climbing out the window again and running away.
@@iggyminious there’s the “end of prime” Metroid video too
Brawl video is your first ,right?
Josh: VIDEOGAMES DON'T NEED FILLER.
Thousand Year Door: *sweats in backtracking*
Goddamnit General White
@Steve Murdock Yeah, when I played thru it the first time I thought it was funny, in the same way that I Wanna Be The Guy had so-bullshit-its-brilliant trial and error and how LISA the Painful RPG is ok letting you climb a 5 minute long rope only reach a literal middle finger and nothing else (and you then have to go aaaaall the way back). I guess I'm ok being at the expense of the joke, it's amusing to me.
@Steve Murdock doesn’t actually help the game though and makes it a slog for some people
I think that's kind of a silly statement really. It could be argued that non-story-driven games are 100% filler depending on your perspective, and that would be ridiculous to say, so what's wrong with RPGs having segments that don't contribute directly to the story as long as the gameplay is enjoyable?
I honestly dont understand why people talk about backtracking in that game as if it's a major issue. The only time it ever was an issue, if you even want to call it that, was in Chapter 7 with the whole General White bussiness. But I see no issue with seeing the previous areas you visited in a sort of side quest to find somebody you've seen throughout the journey to this point. It was annoying sure, but it was difficult and rewarding when you finally got it. It was quite the experience to finish that part of the game and be greeted with the surprise that followed.
Other than when did the game even do this backtracking thing? I can hardly think of anytime when it did. If simply passing through routes you passed by before is enough, that's a little nitpicky. I had no issue passing places that were a part of the area I was exploring. To me it was a part of the exploration. Really grasping and understanding the surrounding area and familiarizing with the people living there.
"Forgive the lack of Geno"
Oooooh! Too soon!
Who cares!? Geno was extremely overrated.
He didn't even have an arch nor personality like Mallow.
He just would have been another glass cannon. How about we get some good choices like Impa or Darunia
@@URFTBOUND4LIFE still a symbol of Mario rpg
He has no personality whatsoever
Yeah, too soon...
@@chrisnguyen2316 In a weird way Mallow feels like a better representative of it based on character interaction and time with him IMO.
I know that the story isn’t as engaging as RPG, but the one thing I LOVE about this game’s story is the way it builds up the final battle.
You mentioned last time that RPG did a great job showing Exor as a threat but I think they did an even better job with Bowser in this game.
He kicks your butt in the beginning, you see him acting cocky and having his way with the Princess after every chapter. A lot of the characters make reference to wishes or dreams they have but they can’t come true because of HIM.
But over time, he gets angry and scared of you making progress. The Star Spirits spell it out for you in their speeches. Going up to his castle and powering through and eventually beating him in the same place you were defeated before feels SO GOOD. Even if the GAMEPLAY isn’t a climax, the STORY is.
This game above all else makes him seem like a huge threat and I LOVE it. I wish they did it more in future games.
@A Gamer Aaron Oops, I should’ve specified I meant that that happens in THIS game.
I think what I liked the most is how the game contrast that before the final boss you fight that regular bowser again, and even thou his regular star rod power doesnt make him totally invincible, you became so strong that you can even opt to bruteforce throught the fight if you dont wanna use the star beam, it contrast how weaker bowser is and would lose to mario were not by his final boss power up.
Building up a final battle with bowser? As an exciting threatening climax? Are you kidding? There is no way to build up a final battle with bowser, even back then, that's why in Mario RPG they had Smithy and made bowser the first joke boss because - let's face it, after that many defeats that's all a character can be. Hell, in Mario 3d World "Bowser's Fury" they had him become some godzilla thing and I still was about as excited and threatened as facing a goomba. If that doesn't show you a villain has become a joke through overuse I don't know what will.
@@Vaquix000 idk man, I loved the godzilla eyecandy
I know it's delayed but hearing you talk about this games soundtrack makes me so excited for the mario and luigi video since the same composer from mario rpg returns and it's so fast and fun
"Forgive the lack of Geno"
Trying to do this right now for Smash Ultimate
I've played Super Mario RPG when I was a kid and boy let me tell you
I give 0 sh!ts about Smash Ultimate.
I'm so broken hearted about no Geno.
@@AdrianERosales at least there’s a Deluxe Costume mod, which got ported to SFM/Gmod.
@@robbiewalker2831 how do I use it and where do I get it?
Hmm…
"If I fail this action command I lose not only the fight, but all the progress through this dungeon."
Isn't there a save block directly before Tutankoopa, and most bosses?
That confused me too
Maybe he is a "hardcore old school pro gamer" that does not save because "makes things easier" and stuff or idk
Maybe he missed it.
@@wariolandgoldpiramid How? It's in plain sight in a small room with only 2 doors!
o_O
@@Majokodomo It's surpricenly common for gamers to miss something in plain sight.
"peach has no equipment"
*proceeds to show him using one of the pieces of equipment peach gets*
I still remember the Crystal Palace chapter of Paper Mario as one of the best moments I’ve ever experienced in gaming. It felt like such a fun adventure to solve that murder mystery, make that trek up the snowy mountain, defeat the Crystal King. It was just so awesome.
13:58 - I can definitely see where you're coming from with regards to Game Overs being an actual threat in some cases, but I don't think Paper Mario's the best example to demonstrate this when it comes to bosses because there's *almost* always a Save Block and a Heart Block right before them. If the game was more stingy about placing these I could definitely see it as more of a threat to progress.
That being said, great video overall! It's interesting to see one of my all-time favorite games be given a retrospective from someone who's approaching it as more of a fan of Super Mario RPG.
I think the Save Block threat is more for the point-to-point aspect of enemy hordes, like going from the snow path, then a part of Crystal Palace, then the 2nd half. Just like other games though, the boss battle would look self-contained hence the refresh just before the battle.
I agree with it in regards to lives. A lot of platformers have the common collectible that liters the place of which collecting 100 grants you a life. I can't see how many of these can be done away with without losing a great deal of substance.
I'm not sure how Crash 4 is but I cant imagine a hallway Crash game without Wumba fruit.
@@Darkfawfulx Crash 4 has a Classic mode where lives go down and Modern mode where death counts are done - you do need less than 3 deaths in a run to get a Gem though.
@@zjzr08 And what becomes of the Wumpa fruits?
@@Darkfawfulx Same function in Classic mode, while also a Gem requirement (80% I think for it)
I know exactly what you mean by "being right on the cusp" of when a game like Paper Mario isn't cool. I'm fortunate that I never played it until my 20's. There was a lot from that era that I probably missed out because I was "too cool" for it haha.
Dude, I was part of the people who didn't give Windwaker a chance back when I was a kid, I feel ya. The way he puts it at the end of the video "I was just a little too old and a little too young to see it that way," is a very elegant summary of that phase we all seem to go through where we're so egar to be mature that we don't realise how immature we're acting.
Edit: an important addition, I was also a kid who unironcally thought the Shadow the Hedgehog game was cool so this isn't the first time I've been in this picture and not liked it.
Sucks man i was like 5 or 6 and it was LITT
I was fortunate enough to find this game very soon after getting a hand-me-down N64 from an older cousin. It was my very first RPG, and the first game I really loved. I'm glad to see older people came back around to it - it's a real gem!
Luckily, I was never such a sheep. As an adolescent and teenager I played all games of quality, regardless of whether they were colourful and cartoon or serious and philosophical.
It’s so interesting to see a perspective on this game with nostalgia in the OTHER direction with so many other people wanting Paper Mario to go back to what it was in the early 2000s. I played this game on Wii virtual console as my first Mario RPG and it is still one of my favorite games. I just played The Thousand Year Door for the first time this year and it is definitely a different game from the first Paper Mario. It does many things both better and worse than the original. After the recent “debate” over the newer games it is refreshing to look back at the first Paper Mario. Also thank you for showing what Mario RPG means to its fans or at least to you. It really did set the groundwork for the other Mario RPGs and we probably won’t see anything like it again. Now is an annoying time to be a fan of Mario RPGs since both modern series are in trouble, but Mario RPG has been in a worse situation for far longer. Thank you for working so hard on this season!
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e The biggest problem with TTYD is the backtracking which wouldn’t be too bad if the spin was still there to make movement more interesting. (If Josh does an episode on TTYD it will be interesting to see what he thinks since he already thought PM64 had some time wastey stuff about it) There are some things I don’t like about the battles. I didn’t use special moves much since they take a long time and made battles less interesting for me. I think both games are equal in how good they are but I will prefer the original since it was my first rpg ever. TTYD definitely has better partners though and has a more wild out there kind of story.
Hey, at least Super Mario RPG is finally getting its well-deserved remake!
THANK YOU for talking about MistareFusion. That’s a channel that needs more love!
Perspective. I think that's what I love about your videos. Not just hearing your personal perspective (of child you and current you), but your willingness to remark other potential perspectives and feel more informed as a result. Especially with Paper Mario as a series, there's been so much tiring back-and-forth and "betrayals" of what IS and what ISN'T a true game in the series. But this vid showed that even from Mario RPG to the first Paper game, there's always been a break in tradition and expectations. And every break deserves recognition for both its deviation from its predecessor and its carving of a new path. And I'm glad you addressed both your original unfair bias to the game and your newfound enjoyment of it. Keep being excellent.
Considering your problems with this game's "filler", I'm scared to see your opinion on ttyd.
The areas are pretty much always "back and forth, back and forth", with chapters 4, 5, 6 and the General White search being the worst offenders. The story and combat system might carry it but the "filler" he's describing is basically every chapter of TTYD.
@@dukemon6163 How does chapter 6 have filler? And the only chapters I would classify as filler would be 4, 7 and 5.
@@Surgemaster2012 It's back and forth between the rooms of the train. There is a lot of plot going on and then there is that small empty station in the middle of the chapter. But the train itself is very small, linear and most of te chapter is carried on by the plot.
@@dukemon6163 Except in the train's case everything is confined within the train itself its not like Chapter 4 where the trips aren't connected and you have to go back and forth between the steeple and the trail.
If I get the Chef's pot for instance the Chef is literally just a room away that you can give it to him as you progress the chapter. It isn't like you need an item, backtrack to the station then the train. Unlike Chapter 4 where even if you know Doopliss name you still need to go back to the steeple anyway. Also its a train, what do you expect it to be? Does the train need to have BOTW styled view? And the station isn't entirely empty either, as there are puzzles you do and enemies to fight, sure its minimal in amount compared to the plot. But that's the point. TTYD has padding, but the train is one of the least examples of it in the game because of traveling back and forth is less of a hassle, not to mention it only persists in day 1 which isn't even half of it. The second day is the station and the 3rd day is the boss fight and Poshley Heights.
I can see in some cases where linearity is prelevant (even though Idk why people treat linearity like COVID 19) but the train is suppose to be like that by design. There isn't really anything you can do. But that's because both 64 and TTYD are linear games in their experience.
@@dukemon6163 The train at least has a lot of distractions, including the station. Overall it is the most underwhelming chapter on a repeat playthrough.
4 lets you try your luck on those Amazy Dayzees. 5 I get distracted by Flavio.
It doesn't take terribly long to get around, and most rooms have some hidden goodie or an enemy to grind.
Personally, I love the final boss because it feels like something the whole game leads up to.
Paper Mario is interesting because it takes the core conceit of an RPG, growing ever stronger, and places it at the heart of the story. Mario wasn't strong enough to beat Bowser the first time, but with the help of his new friends and allies throughout the world, he will be. Bowser, on the other hand, seeks power through wishes, without putting in the effort. In that way, one final slugfest feels like an appropriate, thematic way to end the story.
Love the content TGC, and look forward to an eventual TTYD review.
Bowser was also at his best in a game like this, being surprisingly fierce and competent while still being a delight to watch.
@@borjankosarac3645 Needless to say, I find Bowser in the Paper Mario series funnier than in Super Mario Lol. 🤣
Bowser was amazing in this game. He doesn't just sit in his castle waiting for you to show up. Instead, he is actively trying to put obstacles in your way during missions (probably shouldn't have asked Peach for help) and is preparing the stage to make the Star Spirits irrelevant. Not a lot matches the feeling of kid me seeing the one thing that could beat the star rod fail and wondering what is next.
Let's see, the game leads up to someone you've beaten 20+ times in other games already. What an exciting climax!
@Vaquix it's kind of sad that your enjoyment of something is stifled by the fact that you have done it in other games. You must hate lots of stuff with that mentality. Hopefully, you get in a better place someday.
Very interesting to see such a different point of view on this game. It’s kinda funny how these days we all kinda view these old games in a vacuum, compared to back then when they were just as discussed and debated as games released today. Personally, as someone just over 21, This was one of my favorite games growing up and alongside its sequel and Pokemon, sparked my current love for RPGs.
Great review as usual, dude! Lovin’ this retrospective series so far.
you’re so genuine with your childhood its adorable lol
Great analysis. Paper Mario 64 was my "sick" game when I was a kid. I had the flu and my grandma spoiled me by buying this brand new mario game for me so that I could feel better. Had no idea what to think of the game, but I loved every minute of it. And the TTYD was even better. Haven't played either one in many years so i'm definitely filled with nostalgia, but this was a very enjoyable video and made me want to replay the game! Thanks for making it
Now I really need to hear your opinion on TTYD as well
I'm eagerly awaiting that episode as well. For as great as this game was, I couldn't believe how much the sequel improved on it. Both are so flipping good
@Rock Golem chapter 4 in TTYD is a bit of back and forth, but it's tied into a unique storyline and it's not remotely as drawn out as the Shy Guy Toy box. So he will probably critique it but I'd be shocked if he was as harsh on it
@Rock Golem While I could really live without him - I think not having General White feels like it's not part of thE TTYD experience. The snow Bob-ombs are not the warmest people out there, and you have to go through hoops for them. Then you get frustrated and release all frustration towards him at the end. It isn't the first time you do this in the series, the Goompa letter in this was the first example. For a completionist, it just feels like a running gag.
@Rock Golem Well it typically is without the viewer being involved into it, but it depends on the person, especially if they have a bit twisted sense of humor.
I really hope he covers at least the next two, I've got a ton of nostalgia for them
1997's Josh already had the traits of a youtuber lmao
First episode I've caught that I was a Patron for! Happy to support ya dude! Loving this series so far!
I love how you manage to tell your side of the story in your reviews. I've already played and loved Paper Mario for years but watching you review it wasn't just seeing you talk about stuff I already knew, it was showing me your personal experience with it, which is far more interesting. Great work as always!
I adore how you let the intro speak for itself. Anyone who knows even a little about the story of the Paper Mario franchise knows exactly what you're getting across without you even needing to mention it.
Also, 18:29 put a big smile on my face :)
Ah yes, the Mario role-playing game before Nintendo realized that they called it "Paper" Mario
There was actually a lot of criticism at the time for the fact the game was paper in name only. I bet that’s why future games got more and more papery
The Japanese version was actually called "Mario Story".
@Pinchars ABitch it was less criticism and more “why did they call this game paper Mario there’s nothing paper about it.” Even TTYD is way more paper with the plane and boat abilities.
Funny story, actually. Back when I was a kid, I first played TTYD expecting it to be a "Paper" Mario experience; more like what you'd see with the series nowadays. The sad part is that I lost interest and stopped playing it, so returning it to Blockbuster didn't make me feel upset that much. However, it wasn't until I played Super Paper Mario that I regained great interest in the series. I bought a used copy of TTYD and fell in love, then I followed up with the N64 version. When Sticker Star was announced, I was ecstatic that turn-based combat would return.
And then things went downhill from then on ...
Honestly, it's really ironic how the Paper Mario that I initially expected as a kid is the bread and butter of the franchise today. Kid me wanted paper aesthetics and got an RPG, but now adult me wants an RPG and just has paper aesthetics. The irony is almost laughable.
@@fishactivation5087 Wait, so the entire franchise got ruined because they kept changing it to better match the western title of the game? Man, I wish the developers had said "meh, screw you" and just kept making decent games instead of going "Oh they want paper, here's a paper airplane that controls like arse, here's some stickers, here's some paint, BTW we ruined the game parts of the game KTHXBAI"
Great timing on this release.
I'd needed to kill two hours, so able to watch both rpg videos.
Good to hear your work. Thanks for the effort.
Glad I never went through that “trying to look like an adult when I’m only 12/13” point in my life.
Mostly because I had friends that didn’t do that either thankfully. So I didn’t feel the need to try and be an adult when I was still young.
It's been ages since I played the original Paper Mario, but I still have fond memories of it- this and your Mario RPG review really awakened that feeling of nostalgia I have for both games. It's a shame, though VERY understandable, that you'll be putting off Mario and Luigi for now. Still, looking forward to seeing you give it a shot whenever you've got the time and motivation for another RPG! Or even The Thousand Year Door- your insightful review here definitely made me curious and eager to see what your thoughts on that one would be, and how much or how little the sequel innovated and improved on the formula.
what he is not reviewing mario and luigi?
Sometimes I wonder if there's a "Mario-verse" split in three alternate dimensions or universes between Super Mario, Paper Mario, and Mario and Luigi. It's known in Mario and Luigi:Paper Jam that the two universes are apart. Seeing M&L Mario and Paper Mario team up was awesome. 😎
@@hectorcollazo8845 the idea was good but the execution was mediocre
it's really interesting seeing how much you disliked chapter 4, when it's my favorite chapter lol. i guess the different sections of the toybox never felt all that repetitive to me, and they were small enough that i didn't mind backtracking through them. plus, i thought it was really cool to see toad town, the main hub of the game, in danger. being able to help out all of these characters that you'd gotten to know over the course of the game felt really rewarding to me.
Chapter 7 is my favorite
The frenzied toy version of Toad Town theme is such a fun change too!
Chapter 4 is my favorite too
Right??
I have found the Toy Box theme to be more repetitive and grating than the rest of the soundtrack in my experience. But I think the Toybox is a really solid chapter, and placing the small toy train into the box, watching it essentially grow into the size of a 4 door sedan, is a top 10 Paper Mario moment for me.
“Love without maturity yields passion without perspective.” Damn dude, I wasn’t expecting such a truth bomb. Well said!
This is now the first and only channel i’ve got notifications on for
"Real Game Overs are becoming a lost art" combines with your "hidden value of old-school game design" to make me notice something you might find interesting - these things very much still exist in various roguelike injections into assorted genres. These games focus on repeating similar-but-varied environments, learning good habits to do better every time, and each death starting you off from (usually) zero with the main gain being knowledge, experience and practice.
To be honest, as someone who doesn't find "normal" game overs remotely appealing, I still love the roguelike formula. While my main draw to it (as I boiled down to 2 words in a job interview for a game designer position on one such game) is "forced variety," the core of it is to keep the progress being your knowledge and skill as a player applied to varied-but-controlled novel situations.
Of course, I could go on for hours about the ups-and-downs of the roguelike formula, and various ways it's been applied, but it seems to me to be almost *exactly* game developers trying to preserve the appeal you found in the way old-school games framed their challenge.
I can second he might like roguelikes. I also really hate normal game overs, but in the right roguelike, death does not feel like failure as much as a learning opportunity, and as such is no longer a punishment with forced repetition but instead a tally-up of how well you did (and the good ones do still reward you for what you did RIGHT) and an invitation to play again with a different scenario.
@@MidoriMushrooms The issue is, the roguelikes I've been involved with (whether working on, chatting with devs or just playing a lot) to various degrees more directly are all of the deckbuildery variety (or *actual* "games like Rogue") - stuff like Binding of Isaac or the much more meta-progression-heavy Rogue Legacy (I think that had a sequel?) are something I'm loosely aware of on an academic level but can't really speak to how they appeal to old-school gamers, if at all.
I'd actually be pretty curious to hear - from you or anyone - how well some of those games scratch the same itch you might be nostalgic for.
A lot of why I watch TGC is because he, to be blunt, loves everything I hate, and is one of a number of people I really enjoy watching because of that, since as a(n indie) game designer it's very much in my interest to understand where lots of different perspectives are coming from.
@A Gamer Aaron Changing up the format is definitely a difference, and I'm someone who enjoys both types - I love turning up the difficulty of a game and then save-scumming, trying the same (usually self-caused) scenario over and over until I figure out how to thread the needle to victory - but it still feels the essential skills being tested line up pretty well, and in many of those games the different map you approach with doesn't change that, for example, the boss has a learn-able pattern and knowing how to dodge it perfectly will apply regardless of what "gear" you show up to it with.
At its heart though at some point we're just hitting the limits of the term "roguelike" - trying to cover everything from very random-heavy heavy card games to still mostly-skill-based shooters and platformers. There's definitely some of them where just learning an enemy's idiosyncrasies will be the most important lesson, and regardless of the context next time, your lessons learned can apply - and there's gonna be games more based on risk management and number-crunching. For instance the "lack of level design" isn't the case for a few games off the top of my head which use a medium-sized pool of hand-crafted levels populated in semi-random ways, and where bosses always have their own dedicated arena.
Generally though, "skill growth via repetition" has the same split that a lot of games have - Josh alluded to this in "the difference between how I'm good at Sonic Adventure 2 vs 2D Sonic games" thing - the difference between knowing the exact layout and idiosyncrasies of the level in question, vs knowing all the quirks and tendencies of the game's engine and overall design. It sounds like you might just prefer the first to the second - I know I prefer the latter, and find just learning the layout of a pre-built map via repetition about as fun as cramming for a test.
I'm not a big fan of roguelikes, but I prefer the ones where you lose ALL progress upon death. It's kinda weird getting powerups/ perks between deaths because it's like you're being awarded for failing. IMO the Souls series handle game overs really well, where the games autosave and the only thing you lose for dying is potential money/ exp.
@@Silbotronic To be fair, in a lot of those games you get even *more* for successes, which is kind of prone to creating a string of like "fail fail fail fail succeed succeed succeed succeed succeed succeed" until you just start forcing extra challenges on yourself.
That's kind of a fundamental problem with difficulty curves as a whole, though, since it's undercutting the fundamental concept of "games gets harder the longer you play" - it's basically a case of the game getting easier as you keep playing and you're never sure if you "got good" or if it just became easier by so much your original baseline skill was enough to succeed.
I'm not really sure you're being comprehensive enough on Souls games - they also cost *time*. For a lot of people there's a big difference between "lose EXP that'd cost me 15 minutes to grind back up" and "literally just have to re-play the last 5 minutes of stuff I already know how to do."
Of course Souls(-like) Games are more complex there, and they themselves have changed somewhat, since there's also the element of "do the same thing again, but try to do it even cleaner so you get to whatever terminally challenged you with more resources to spare."
It's a pretty complicated topic. I'm kind of starting to appreciate what a loaded term I brought up just in terms of how many equally-valid directions people's thoughts went in response.
That DK64 minigame music was very fitting for the Chapter 4 breakdown. Love that music, it's great for capturing that emotion
Did anyone else expect Jr Troopa to be the final partner? I thought he would admit defeat and join up or decide to follow mario more closely to get stronger.
33:25 You don't need to be sorry, it makes me needlessly happy every time that track gets remixed in a new soundfont. Please have an album released.
I love that you have so much footage of your childhood and proudly feature it in your videos!
Also I see that 2XL robot you had, my family had one too!
26:18 but does Mario Party 3 count? Outside of Japan that was the last Mario game for the N64. Here are the release months in North America
Paper Mario: February 2001
Dr. Mario 64: April 2001
Mario Party 3: May 2001
37:25 you brought up the baking one and it reminded of how due to an overflow you can bake a cake for 40 something odd years and the game will treat it as if you baked it for the correct time. Always find that funny.
It's kind of strange to see someones thoughts on this game being a sequel to a game I've never played. My first experience with this series was Super Paper Mario, and that game is about as different from the original formula as it could be, even all the way back in 2010.
Even if it was, kinda like SMRPG, SPM still did have the feel of a Mario RPG, like a Kingdom Hearts style spin-off, so it isn't really that far off from the originals (especially compared to the Papercraft Mario games).
Super Paper Mario was my first one too, I was super engrossed with the 3d/2d flipping, even if it wasn't utilized as much as it could have been
One other detail- as a 90s kid, Kolorado reminded me a lot of Nigel Thornberry from the Wild Thornberrys. One of my favorite characters in the game, absolutely love it when he says “old boy.”
46:25 this was either the best time to fire back up Sonic Generations, or the worst. I was playing this massive love letter to the entire fandom up to that point, but it also reminded me of how fractured the community has been since 1998. The jump to 3D cracked the community in two. More so with SA2B on the Gamecube and Heroes on Ps2 and Xbox.
Also this was a fantastic video! It kinda reminded me of when you critiqued Sonic Advance 3. How a rough start swore you off, and didn’t see it as anything else until a decade (or in this case two decades) later.
If Super Mario RPG was largely a Final Fantasy game cosplaying in a Mario skin, Paper Mario took that playbook and then went and had lunch with Dragon Quest and came away impressed. Charming, genuine, earnest, cozy, familiar, fairy tale-esque-all of these words get used to try and capture the tone of DQ *constantly*, and the heavy focus on situation-driven storytelling where you roll into town and spend a while soaking in the sights and culture before stumbling into whatever problems the locals have rather than being constantly swept up in a grand, party character-driven narrative is also right on point. Heck, even the wholly linear, permanent armor and weapon system could be seen as a throwback to DQ1's solo protagonist doing the same thing.
The commentary on nostalgia and growing up is tear-jerkingly beautiful to me please help
I've never heard "a little too old and a little too young" before but it makes so much sense for so many things
I finally finished this game a few days ago, as I really wanted to play it before the remake of thousand year door. It's kinda strange that it took me this long. We are basically the same age and back in 2001 I started the game but never played it more than maybe 2 hours. A few years ago I tried it again but same result. 2 Hours and it lost me. No idea why, but this time I "forced" myself to go further and what can I say? I so loved it! Such an amazing and cute game, it was so much fun! And now I am even more hyped for Thousand year door :) Thanks for your video by the way. Watched it back in the day when you uploaded it, but now rewatching it felt totally different since now I really knew the details of the game myself. Have a good one and would love to see more Video from you about the Paper Mario Games 👍🏻
"Video Games don't need filler" sounds like something Tim Rogers would say.
I remember getting this game in 2001 for my 7th birthday. Would go to school each day and would talk to my friends about it. Only one of us had a printer so we would ask for them to print off pages from CheatsCC and other cheat/walkthrough forums. It was a much simpler time.
I'm curious, will you do a "Thousand-Year Door" video? It's built on the same foundations, and, at least for me, the story was epic.
It makes me wonder too as it seems most of his videos are a lot more nostalgic based during his pre-adult years.
I mean given how it’s been 11 months since this video, and he hasn’t even made the Superstar Saga video yet, who even knows if he’ll make a TTYD video
2020 has been crazy, was laid off from two jobs and am still just trying to get back on my feet. Funny enough I began to wonder where your videos have been. So excited to watch this! You’re helping this year go out on a high note, liked!!
Sorry about your jobs man
I think I find myself on the other side of the mirror when it comes to this game: where Josh and a lot of other people I've seen both here on UA-cam and outside of the internet had SMRPG growing up, I had The Thousand Year Door growing up instead. Having played the 3rd Mario RPG so early in my development really colored my expectations of what role-playing games could be, so when I tried going back to play the original Paper Mario, I simply couldn't get invested. So much of it felt like a step back compared to what I had already played, which I admit should be natural due to the nature of sequels, but despite the charm the game has, I always end up feeling like I should be playing TTYD instead. Oddly enough, when I played SMRPG for the first time, I didn't feel that way compared to Paper Mario. I'll find some time to give this game another good try. Thanks for another good video, Josh.
That smrpg experience was because of how different it was from paper mario, with its 'square' flair.
i loved gourmet guy so much as a kid, i kept a save file SPECIFICALLY so i could give him the cake, watch him do his thing, reset, and watch it as many times as i wanted. i started a new file to progress past that
idk if I would call Chapter 4 and 6 filler sounds like a case of impatience
Yoshi's were such a big part of SMRPG, first 2 PM's and first 2 Mario and Luigi's it's a shame they never do anything with them in the later PM games, Dream Team had some Yoshi NPC's but never a big role. The Lava Piranha boss was a ref to Naval Piranha too
Hearing the part about action command variety and star specials you'll be greatly surprised with TTYD... idk if this is a sorta spoiler
Honestly this was fun to watch… my favorite bit was the DK64 song remix… right before 34:29. I honestly didn’t realize why it felt so familiar but thought it was really fun and then I saw the note. Solid style emulation
Bruh you're such an underrated youtuber
Josh, these videos mean so much to me. I've watched almost every video on your channel and they helped me get through really though times, and I'm so glad that you're finally getting the attention you deserve. So, for the bottom of my heart, thank you. Thank you for being passionate about what you do, and helping my be just as passionate.
18:30 I dont know if youre aware but theres a reboot of Mario Bros Z in the works
Wait, is that still happening? I thought it got DMCA'd.
@@SirCowduck yeah he just uploaded a preview for the second episode. It took so long because of some personal issues
You’re one of the best at what you do, TGC.
I watched your Metroid reviews a while back but now I’m finally checking other reviews and I’m loving it. Keep up the great work, my man.
Using Mario's use of compartmentalized level mechanics to transition into specific enemy types requiring specific attacks by the player was just... so clean. The way you see games is so different than me; but always incredible. I wish I didnt have plans so I could watch it all at once
Paper Mario was the first game I ever beat all by myself as a kid. Before that my much older brother would usually show me the ropes and get me on my way. But Paper Mario was the first time I just sat down with a game totally by myself and bit by bit I got through it until I finally beat it. And when I replayed it for the first time in years as an adult I found that not only was it still good but that it was still one of my all time favorites. Fantastic game. So happy to see you cover it man, great work as always
I really wish Nintendo would release the first three Paper Mario games on the switch. I really long to play these games again especially after your video.
Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't seem to want anything to do with the older Paper Mario games anymore. Such a waste...
@SpaceMen While I agree, Origami King is definitely a Paper Mario game-a refreshing step for the franchise from its recent entries, one of the big problems I have with these games (Nintendo in general sometimes) is that they just want it to be different. I’m mainly referring to the gameplay, I like innovation, creativity, something Origami King definitely has with its puzzle combat, (at least for the series) but it really feels like something that could have been its own thing; a different franchise. Origami King is so far from previous iterations of Paper Mario as is, but the Sudoku-like combat system feels like it shouldn’t be tagged on-as the main-core loop and premise of the game in my opinion. It just feels so different, like it could have easily been its own IP or a totally new spinoff but instead it just has to be slapped onto one of the main spinoff series more than it feels like even a spiritual successor let alone any kind of game in the series. Different isn’t always better, though in Origami King’s case, I’m happy with it but I can’t help but feel a little longing for even a slight return to something more “traditional” too.
I would definitely say: They lost me. Not in the sense of being a fan, in the sense of... for a while I somewhat looked the other way when it came to Paper Mario and it’s many handheld entries, because I still felt like I had Mario & Luigi games, which really gave me those feelings I miss from old Paper Mario, even as far as Bowser’s Inside Story in the series. Now, I feel like Nintendo has taken that away as well, it’s really losing its luster to me and is starting to feel that similar course PM took, which made me disappointed even more. I just really would enjoy something simpler or rather not 10k iq new spin on everything.
I don't bear any particular ill feelings towards the new ones, but the first three just hit different. Super is my personal favorite, probably due to nostalgia. Idk how they'd manage the controls, though
Emulator.
Well now Paper Mario 64 will be on NSO so there's that now :3
You made my day at around 16:00 when you pointed out the same main issue I have with JRPGs, while simultaneously cutting to Secret of Mana (a game that I enjoy but am also frustrated by for the same reason you shared).
Awesome video
Thanks! Yeah, I had an enjoyable hour with Secret of Mana back when the SNES Classic first came out, then came back a few months later and had completely lost track of what I was doing.
@@GeekCritique yeah, I had the same thing happen to me when I finally got around to it back over the summer. I had a blast with the game but, I wanna say a bit past the 50% mark through it, the game opens up and becomes less linear. While that’s usually a good thing, it also leads to revisiting a bunch of areas from earlier in the game and, without a quest log to remind you where you need to go, and the fact that the games map doesn’t even label locations, it just became a bit unmanageable for someone who usually only games for an hour or two every few days after work
The correct strategy for this game was to always level up badge points, because you could always spend the badge points on the HP+ and or the FP+. And then if u didn't need either of those things u could switch badges easily.
That last part about missing out is touching. Cause I know too how that felt. I've always dismissed myself for being on the wrong side of the fence. But I've been reaching out to try new things, things that everyone else enjoyed. It's why I love your videos, I can relate to some of the parts while learning new things.
I never in a million years thought I would hear somebody call Paper Mario "unabashedly challenging." I know it's not really your genre, but still.
These games are great. TTYD was my gateway drug, and I've been playing old JRPGs ever since.
Tbh Paper Mario is just challenging enough, unlike TTYD which is damn easy
For me the perfect Mario RPG is Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door! The gameplay and story thrill me no matter how many times I play it!!!
Quite the prominent use of Undertale music in this one. I guess that speaks volumes about your musical preference, as I'm certain there would be less of it if you loved more of the music from Paper Mario.
Always a fantastic analysis and a grade-A video! I have yet to finish this game after starting it on the Wii U Virtual Console, but I love what it has to offer so far. Undertale was the RPG to actually get me into RPGs, and I am so thankful for it. It got me to play and complete Chrono Trigger, and I had a blast with it. Looking forward to finishing Paper Mario one day soon, and cheers to your ongoing endeavors!
Commenting to feed the algorithm, but also to say that your perspective is hard-won but well-earned, and we all benefit from it.
Nice shout out to MistareFusion’s Dragonball Dissection!
Excellent video. I really wish they would bring this game and several you have talked about to the switch. Such as the prime trilogy, Mario rgp, OOT and majoras mask.
Pretty sure the Chancellor is implied to be the same, or related to the Chancellor from SMRPG in the Japanese version *iirc.*
I played paper mario when I was young and while I may not remember all of it the series brings me a fondness. I love this game even though I have yet to complete it. I remember when I would mess around in the boo manor trying to get 8 bit Mario out of the room, or how the times my father would come and help me progress, and the times my brother would be there the two of us somehow getting to chapter 5. Its great to come back some times and try to get farther, and make it through those parts that perplexed me as a child. I have a lot of fond memories with this game and this video helps me to Remember my love of this game.
That final monologue, the Dark Side of Nostalgia, sums up so much of my opinion about Paper Mario. I loved the first two games, no question. But you know what? I loved what came after them also. I still think Super Paper Mario is the best in the series, I actually enjoyed Sticker Star and Color Splash, and Origami King is a completely worthy successor to the original two. Because I chose to enjoy them for what they were, rather than hate them for what they weren't.
Meanwhile, so many other Paper Mario fans just can't seem to look past their nostalgia for the first two games and insist on hating the next four because of that. And all I can say is, I pity those people.
@k ? No, kiddo, they don't. Not one of you have ever given those games a fair chance. They weren't Thousand Year Door 2, so you just auto-hated them. And on the rare occasion you lot actually try to explain what's so "terrible" about them, all you ever do is nit-pick tiny problems and blow them completely out of proportion.
The later Paper Mario games are far from perfect, but they aren't terrible. You'd see that if you had the wherewithal to understand the difference between your opinions and actual objective facts.
Aw yeah, lemme just pump that Geek Critique directly into my sub feed. Yeeeeeah, that's the good stuff. I need MORE, man. I need my fix.
Sorry mate, but I can’t jive with Chapter 4 slander. I love it.
Chapter 6 is pretty boring to me, though.
Funny, I feel the opposite. I loved how your actions in Chapter 6 made a difference in the flower spirits' lives, whereas Chapter 4 lacked that extra little spice for me.
I hated Chapter 6, is fucking unnecesary and I would lover way more that the Flower things was something optional more thant something FORCED, I was lucky that I collected all the seeds because I thought it was "optional" but when I see that was something the game was going to force you to do really annoyed me, and all the "Campos Floridos"(idk the English name, srry) area makes me feel whacky and dumb, I love the soundtrack but when you clear the sky the music gets ANNOYING.
And also, whatever the cloud boss name is, was a short and boooooring boss fight.
You have a remarkable talent, geek. You take games I've heard of but never played, games that never sounded interesting, and pitch them from such a loving, insightful perspective that I'm almost jealous of the fun you've had.
"I was just a little too old and a little too young to see it that way." That was a very good line.
This was an amazing video. I played the game as a kid and I've replayed it twice now. I just watched this so I guess it's time to play again lol
Funny, I always liked PM and TTYD way more than I liked SMRPG (and I played SMRPG first! and love it too, just not as much). I can't really put my finger on why. I just do. I think I'm a bit younger than you (born late 91) though. Sounds like you were in your I'M A BIG BOY TEEN now phase a few years before I was, so that could be a factor.
For sure! If Paper Mario had come out earlier in the N64's life and I'd played it as a kid, I think I'd have LOVED it back then. And actually, I think that's probably a reason the "Mario RPG" and "Paper Mario" fandoms are pretty segregated, now. I know lots of people like me who skipped Paper Mario and its sequels, feeling they were "too old" for it. And likewise, I've gotten comments from people who've played tons of PM and M&L games, but could never gel with Mario RPG, because IT seemed "too old" to them!
@@GeekCritique I played PM first before SMRPG although I still am a fan of the latter (isometric 3D in a 2D console fascinates me) - I will say it does feel a bit old to me personally, and does feel a bit similar to many big number RPGs compared to PM which seamlessly translates the platforming mechanics to the RPG and makes it more RPG as you go on.
@@GeekCritique Introduction bias (as I like to call it) at its finest!
This is really the only turn based RPG style game I’ve ever returned to. Several times too! As a kid this story blew my mind, it seemed like nothing could be bigger than Peach’s castle being lifted into space and the star gods being kidnapped. What hope could there be, besides Mario?! It was also the first type of game like this I ever finished. Nothing ever let you explore the mushroom kingdom quite like this at the time. The parts where you play as Peach also we’re mind blowing. Like WHAT?! You can play as someone besides Mario?!?! It truly changed my life.
"How dare something I loved as a child, continue to appeal to children after I've stopped being one."
I'd say that that line rings true now more than ever with the recent Paper Mario games . . . .
If they were actually as good as the ones before them . . . .
I don’t even think kids are into Paper Mario anymore. Maybe I’m just stupid, but I feel like the ring battle system is way too convoluted and I can’t see myself liking it as a kid. I probably would’ve liked Sticker Star if I was a child when I played it tho
They are as good, better even
I thought I was the only one who wasn’t a fan of the Shy guy toy box. Now I understand why
Are you planning on doing the other Paper Mario's at all? If so here? Or will they be Patreon exclusives?
These were one offs
Shy Guy's Toybox is one of my favorite parts >.>
16:15 Quest logs and objective markers are pretty common in 21st century RPGs josh...
I don't comment, or even sign in, too often, but your speech at the end reminded me of something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while. The whole speech at the end reminded me of another Paper Mario game, the most recent one to be specific.
For a while, people who enjoyed the newest Paper Mario have been insulted by fans of the older ones, like myself, however, I don't necessarily share their sentiment. I feel like that game has its own charm that sort of makes it something else, something not quite Paper Mario. Is that a bad thing? No. Do I hate the game for it? No. Do I want to play it? No... it doesn't really appeal to me. Am I going to make fun of anyone who plays and enjoys it? Absolutely not.
It's always a strange feeling when something you once enjoyed becomes something completely different, and something that no longer appeals to you, but I've learned to just quietly support it for the fact that it's still alive, rather than insult it for not being what it once was. Again, let's take the new Paper Mario as an example. It's almost not an RPG, coins are almost pointless, and the partner mechanic seems sort of slapped on there, however, you wouldn't really notice these faults unless you played and loved the old games, and, even to some people who have, they can just see past the differences, and enjoy it anyways. That being said, those of you who have only played the newest Paper Mario game, go ahead, try the old ones. They won't be the same, and they'll be lacking some quality of life features, but I promise you that they're at least good, while also taking your word for it that the newest one is also good for what it is, rather than for what the old games were.
I doubt I'm going to change anyone's mind here, but, newer fans, remember that not all of us older fans are like the idiots and jerks who tease you, and older fans, just accept that the newer fans enjoy the new game, and that the game can be enjoyed, as a surprising amount of effort was put into it.
21:35 speed runner’s guide to alcohol poisoning.
Woah, I didn't even expect this video, let alone so soon after your Super Mario RPG one!! Not that I'm complaining, I'm glad that Mr. Geek Critique gave us all Christmas a week in advanced, hehe.
I wonder what would’ve happened if the game was called Mario Story overseas.
I could imagine that they would probably start using the Paper Mario name overseas from Sticker Star onwards.
Mario is back. But this time, he has a plot.
@@randomduck8679 Interestingly that was the promotion given by Japan - it was 3D Mario explaining what he has done already, Party, Golf, etc. But what he hasn't done yet is an "adventure", although it does seem to forget SMRPG with that, hehe.
im extremely happy i found this channel i got choked up at the end when you said i was a little to old and a little to young hit me so hard i felt the emotiong this channel is just amazing keep up the amazing work!
Game over's are fine in most games, you need to have a sense of loss in most games or else the game just plays itself and it makes you winning more rewarding.
I feel like there's been a lot of impatience recently, I remember this one dude made a video complaining about losing like 2 secs between Mario Maker 2 deaths and making it seem like a massive game breaking deal
You mean RelaxAlax?
@@train4292 Yeah him, I tried to get his point but he really just came off as just extremely impatience, grown man complaining about waiting for 2 secs
People have been really doing that lately. Like these people have the patience of a small wet carrot.
@@gleamingroses2952 tbh in this videos case and some comments on this video it sounds like people just need to save more often, been a while since I played 64 but I'm pretty sure there's save blocks like in front of most of the bosses in the game so idk how much progress your actually loosing
@@gleamingroses2952 hmm I've been thinking about this for a while, I wonder if it has to do with just modern gaming culture, like streamers try and do a much content in a game in their air time so they try to rush things and UA-camrs try to speed play a game just to work on their videos instead of sitting back and enjoying it at a normal pace
You're only like, 10 years older than me at most (I turn 22 in January), and yet, your videos are so intricate and pleasant to listen to that it's like listening to a grandpa telling stories of the good old golden days. (I hope you don't take that the wrong way lol)
Ever since I've finished the Metroid series, I've always found myself coming back to binge your videos on the series, and they were really welcome given how chaotic 2020 has been!
I'm very excited (and simultaneously terrified because of it's split opinions) to hear you talk about Super! You can probably tell given my profile how much I love it, and I can only hope you can see what I do in it.
46:10 - 46:53
This sounds like it is in reference to fandom wars over "TTYD vs. The Origami King", in which it comes off as a bit weird to me (But it could be anything else tbh. If it wasn't, then I apologize, however it is still relevant to the topic).
I understand the sentiment and I agree with it in a general sense, as do most, probably. But in the case of Origami King, while there are those who hate it because it's different from TTYD, it goes both ways. I've seen plenty of people ignoring the real, fundamental problems that Origami King has and push it off as "they hate it simply because it's different".
The Origami King has problems that are so deep that it breeds concern within other Nintendo games. No, I don't mean the idea that they won't do an RPG again. I mean the inability to make new, original characters, just as an example (of which they are what the creator behind Origami King himself said). Origami King is a deeply flawed game, but you can't say that without having your opinion dismissed on the basis that "not everything has to be like TTYD", even though that's not the point. Or that it's "for kids", as though that's an excuse for it to be bad; That somehow you can't have something all-ages, like the early Paper Mario games.
So what I'm saying is that: with anything comparisons between new and old will take place, as you were basically saying as well. Except that the vocal minority, on _both_ sides, will hate on the other for no good reason. Meaning that it makes it tough for the real criticisms to shine through, as they are thrown aside under the label of "hate", a similar sentiment that you see in a lot of social "issues".
This applies to anything, but the Origami King was relevant is all. I also really enjoyed the video as well.
TOK is a masterpiece tho
I have been watching this video in segments, and my god is this a lovely review if you split it up like a series. You actually will want to get your popcorn ready, 10/10 amazing video!