Does Time-Restricted Eating Hurt or Help Gains? | Educational Video | Biolayne
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2023
- Study: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36546...
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What I really like about Lane is the truth. He doesn't take a stance and stick to it he goes where the data goes Love that.
The biggest advantage to me when it comes to TRE/IF is that it's A LOT easier to stick to.
It keeps the mind free of stress from calorie counting throughout the day and has clear limitations (which are good for mental health).
I've been fasting since 2016, my body composition has changed dramatically. Not sure if it's the best, but it's so much easier living this way. Not having to think about breakfast or lunch is liberating.
You are my Guru when we talk about nutrition and sport. Thank you for your advices!
I really don't understand why that study was referenced when it was so short, they weren't eating that much protein, nor were they doing any resistance training for a significant period of time. Would really like to see you come back with a study on that or create a new one yourself!
Excellent study. Thank you for sharing Layne.
Commenting for the algorithm! LOVE all your videos Layne!
Thanks Doc for the free master class!
TRF. A way to describe how humans ate for 300,000 years.
Normal. Eating three meals a day, plus snacks, plus dessert, and sweetened beverages in between.
We got it backwards.
We should call our modern dietary patterns CCF (chronic continuous feeding) and TRF as traditional or normal.
Evidence?
@@joshleedy6127 You can start with your own great grandparents and go back in time from there. Read any book about traditionally eating patterns. Read the diaries of civil war and revolutionary war soldiers. Read the work of anthropologists who studied hunter gatherers. People didn't even their first meal until they already put in hours of work.
But, I'm curious as to why you think 500 years ago, breakfast, lunch and dinner plus snacks and dessert was the norm? How would that even be possible from a simple procurement and preparation perspective?
I think I lazily read your comment as one meal a day lol. Grandparents ate 3 squares
@@joshleedy6127 Correct. But no snacking. The snacking is key. Also, even three squares a day is mostly a modern phenomenon. Two meals a day has been the norm in human history because it's not practical to break up a day like that when you'd have to procure and prepare foods without the advantage of freezers, refrigerators, gas stoves. A 16/8 routine is a very natural way to eat. Get up, and get some work done (in most of human history there was a LOT of work to get done just to survive) . Then big breakfast, then work for another 8 hours or so, then dinner. Repeat.
@@joshleedy6127 Evidence: We got bigger and our brains got bigger. Fossil records show this.
Very interesting. Nicely done.
Another awesome video! Thanks for the brewkdown. I’m looking forward to seeing what findings come out of Dr. Andy Galpin’s Intermittent Fasting and Human Performance lab.
Great review! I appreciate your perspective.
From the studies I've heard of, TRF is beaten by periodic extended fasting because a small amount of lean mass is lost in the TRF period, and it is preserved toward the end of that, then potentially re-gained, if proper feeding occurs. This means that the most preservative fasting period would likely be between 24 hours and five days. Of course, you won't do several days chronically, but you will obtain the benefits if you do that occasionally (like every couple months or quarterly.)
Aside from that, I try to get my meals in over an 8--to-10 hour period. I'm having a bit of trouble considering a ten-hour window to be TRE, especially if it's compared to a strategy that starts at 8AM and finishes (presumably the start of the last meal) at 8PM, making the eating period over half one's life for the control. As you, I'm concerned about protein in a short feeding window such as OMAD or 20/4. I'm a fan of Gabrielle Lyon and her mentor Don Layman so I consider five hours between meals (aka protein boluses) to be the gold standard, but I cheat it more toward four hours to benefit from the greater insulin reduction at night with an earlier fasting period. This means my first meal is before noon and my last meal is in the late afternoon or early evening.
So the "TRE" listed is closer to what I do, but I also like to fast a day or two on weekends because I have a history of diabetes and degenerative disc disease and my aim is also to control inflammation. I hope I'm "doing it right." One thing I may be doing differently than the subjects is my first meal after the fast is basically lean protein (read: very low fat), in an attempt to shuttle that protein as directly as possible into my muscles when I'm most insulin sensitive. This would occur, of course, after a workout, to maximize insulin sensitivity. I start work early and take long lunches. After that, I'm "ketovore" (diabetic history again), and I always attempt to get no less than 30g of animal protein in any meal. I haven't done this long enough to gauge the result.
*_BTW, enjoyed meeting you at Low Carb Denver! I was "that guy" who followed you toward your workout to chat after your presentation._*
Great study.
what a neat study
The advantage of TRE is not physiological, it is behavior support and cultural defence vs peer preassure calories intake. I can control my calories, macros, and micros, when I am not getting nudged continually towards crap food.
Great info
Me whos alternates OMAD with IF, goes to gym but doesnt care about the gains. Im 41 yrs old, my priority are endurance, strong muscle heart and injuries free! Good vid as always!
Very interesting. And, do you have muscles on? I mean do you look muscular or just athletic/thin/lean?
Thanks Layne 🙂
Thanks Layne
I think 12/12 works for good muscle if you workout. That’s half of your life away from food but still have the fun of working out and eating.
Yayyy!!! I was doing 16/8 IF & my 🏋️♀️🏋️♀️was suffering.. I’m back to fuelling before my lifts & 💥 🦾🦾
Thanks Layne 💪 FTA
I’m interested in this topic
thank you.
I fasted for 21 days straight. Water only. I loss so much weight. I didn’t notice the muscle loss until I saw how much more difficult it was to lose weight with standard calorie counting.
We are here for the good content
I like the analysis. My experience is that timing of heavy resistance training combine with TRE can lead to better results in gaining lean mass and definition than on a regular diet.
But that's just me
No idea if it hurts my gains but eating one huge dinner and an evening shake keeps me in a good calorie range. I have a large filling dinner, and the banana, blueberry, Greek yogurt, protein, and collegen shake satiates my sweet tooth and keeps me good for the night.
My 2 cents for why lean mass loss was greater in the TRF group: If MPS was similar, then MPB must've been greater. Maybe leucine has a mechanism for slowing down MPB (in edition to up-regulating MPS in the fed state), and fasting for a long-duration may have led to a substantial decrease in intramuscular [leucine]. Or maybe serum [insulin] levels were still high enough in the fasted state to have it's permissive effects on MPS, but not high enough to have it's inhibitory effects on MPB?
I believe it’s not the leucine that slows down MPB but insulin. Studies have shown that insulin halves MPB for a certain amount of time, which could explain why the TRF group lost lean mass compared to the group since the TRF group was releasing insulin after larger intervals.
@@avisekhon1558 I’d argue that it could be both. Leucine’s mechanism of up-regulating MPS comes from its binding to SESTRIN2, which then results in its activation of mTORC1 which can up and down-regulate MPS and MPB, respectively.
But yes, insulin I can say fairly confidently probably is a mechanism.
Low Insulin=Low MTor=Low MPS. Less gains. Dont get too sciency.
@@nicksenseitv4922 The paper that Layne is presenting doesn't show that, MPS was about the same in both groups. Plus, other evidence suggests that insulin's ability to up-regulate MPS seems to depend on amino acid availability, so it's not necessarily a simple A = B = C mechanism.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26404065/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25646407/
If the human body worked in an A = B = C fashion, we could easily extrapolate mechanisms to outcomes, but unfortunately that’s not always the case.
@@nicksenseitv4922 Kai calls that, "getting lost in minutia"
Algorithm Comment - Thanks for your great work, Dr. Norton!
The lean mass loss makes me wonder if autophagy had something to do with it.
That's a great observation! I've also heard that fasting may lend toward leaner, stronger muscles (maybe the same effect stated differently) as opposed to hypertrophy, which could include retention of dysfunctional tissue that fasting combats.
Informative
fasting works wonders for me because it makes me eat less, and after a few weeks sugar cravings are down, but i still need to eat below maintenance to lose weight. I also eat more protein while doing fasting. Nothing magic about it
Hey Doc! Ramadan is coming in a week! Kindly we need a video
Well I just gotta say I've been doing 18:6 2MAD for just over a year now. I lost 45 lbs and have gained muscle mass....there's no question about it. I do running, walking and resistance training. I am most def. getting enough high quality protein on a daily basis (which is why I do Atkins and NOT keto). I eat very clean although I do splurge on sweets here and there. What he fails to mention here about TRF is that this allowed insulin levels to fall which in turn allows your body to use fat as its primary fuel source instead of glucose. That said, the other argument could be that once you reverse your insulin resistance (which has been the case for me), reintroducing breakfast, at least once in a while (which I also do on occasion), MAY aid in adding additional lean muscle mass.
Anecdote here. Having breakfast between 12-2pm, getting 1 g/lb protein but not much more than that or I get sluggish, and I'm hitting PRs every single day. While on a cut. I train fasted, walk 5-7 miles a day. Never felt stronger, not gonna stop.
Very similar to me I'm just starting to try and hit 180g of protein within an 6-8. Hour wondow.
I've cut for bodybuilding shows and I've done both TRE and regular just calorie counting throughout the day. Even though my macros were the same for both I definitely lost more muscle doing TRE however I found it so much easier to stick to and mentally better for me. So it's a toss up, be bigger but feel worse, be smaller feel better
I notice the exact same thing.
The element of delight just might have a role to play in both mental and physiological health, since the brain and body are interconnected, and brain states have hormonal and other consequences physiologically and biochemically. Being satisfied and happy gets under-covered by hardboiled science types. Somehow it's associated (wrongly) with being unscientific.
Hi biolayne, for natural bodybuilding purposes do you think there's a significant difference between 3 meals vs 5-6 meals? No time restricted eating in either case.
I suggest Renaissance Periodization’s muscle building diet series :)
It would've been done for controlled eating V the most popular time restricted practice i.e. 16-8
Wasn’t that 50g proteins per meal a myth and depended on so many variables that the range could be far greater?
I mean 100g of protein don’t get lost, it takes hours to digest
This study was kinda dogshit unless you are a middle aged man who does not eat enough protein and does not do resistance training.
According to Don Layman, the number was more like >30g, and according to Gabriel Lyon, five hours apart is ideal.
Thank you for not promoting AG1.
I really wonder about the 40 to 50 g of protein per meal.
if you eat much protein in one meal it also means it is going to take longer to digest it all. also if you eat protein that is not from protein powder it seems to take longer to digest, even more so if you add other macros and fibre into the mix.
Is there an idea as to how much LBM verssu FM you add when you are in calorie surplus?? You gave in your book an approximate table for the inverse, with calorie deficit.
For someone who followed IF for a couple of years, it was helpful in calorie restriction and fat loss but yes, it didn't help with body recomp. Thanks for the update!
Fat loss is considered part of body recomp. Do you mean you didn’t gain lean mass?
@courtneyderouen Yes, I didn't see much gains and probably wasn't fueling my body properly. Muscle weighs more than fat, and many women, myself included, get hung up on the number on the scale.
Hello @@kirstenhellman1438! check out Michelle Roots videos on UA-cam, I followed most of the tips she shared for the body recomposition.
I lost 3% of body fat and gained 2.1kg muscle mass on the first month, my weight on scale hasn't change much, but I am happy with the result and can see my body is slowing changing and getting stronger! 🙂
The things I did differently this time were:
1) make sure I hit my daily protein intake.
2) if my workout is in the morning, I will not worry too much about IF on that day, because I noticed I need to eat something before work out to have better strength and feel better. I only tried to do IF when I don't have morning work out session.
3) I tried to do more daily NEAT more than before.
4) focus more on weightlifting to build muscle, cardio would be once or twice a week of zone 2, 3 cardio only.
I hope you will find it helpful too 🙂
You say it didn't help body recomposition. Did you think it hurt lean mass? Did you measure lean mass?
PS: ...and if you did, what method?
@@CarbageMan at the time I didn’t have Omron handheld body fat scale, but I could tell with pictures of myself I had little muscle definition.
Thank You for being Unbiased and not extreme, Even though I'm a fasting kinda guy but I too every much am in line with your view points😊.
Also For the Ali-go-rythm
i want to ask about iron, glucosamine, is it good. thankyou
Does lean tissue is more sensitive to water retention then fat tissue? Might be an explanation. I tend to store less water if do time restrictant feeding.
I was still able to make tremendous gains with time restricted eating. It made no difference as long as I got in my daily caloric and protein needs(1 gram per lb of bodyweight, I weigh 200 so I just made sure to get 200 grams per day). I compared it versus eating all my waking hours, and there was no difference whatsoever for me.
How many hours do you fast easch day?
@@EnsoReloaded I stopped all cal consumption at 6:45pm at night and didn't consume any cals until 10:30 am the next morning
@@Simon-talks that's not rly fasting though lol, you just don't eat before bedtime and right after you wake up
@@serban2139 an 8hr eating window is certainly time restricted and a form of intermittent fasting. Learn better.
@@courtneyderouen semantics. It's basically what Layne said in his video, you eat 2 hours earlier and 2 hours later than you could have if spread further apart.
Andrew huberman podcasts with satchin panda......very interesting 🤔 for intermittent fasting ....and time restricted feeding dor longevity....
And he talks about how if you are physically active you should have an eating window of 12 hours and you shouldn't go below that (as far as we know). What take did you get from that podcast regarding time restricted feeding for longevity?
PS edit eating window not fasting window
Layne 💯
By the power of the algorithm
Dear algorithm, what kinda comment would be most beneficial?
You should collaborate with Renaissance Periodization…
YAAAAAAS
What then would be the optimal way of gaining lean muscle mass and having autophagy? The process of autophagy is only active when you fast, right?
Lean Body Mass consists of three components, two of which are water. Might explain the lean body mass reduction in the TRE.
Intermittent fasting is better for glucose control based on my experience. I feel so much better energetically!
Interesting video. Given that I do one meal a day (150-180g protein for 90kg), also regular body weight resistance training, how I can get the most of it from this schedule? Whatever the "most of it" could be, eg. minimize muscle loss or gain as much as possible within these conditions?
From what I understand (via Gabrielle Lyon and Don Layman), you're ideally likely to properly absorb the protein in three boluses, five hours apart. I "cheat" this more toward a 16-8 or 14-10 schedule and do truly "intermittent" fasting on weekends, of a day or two.
I'm aware of that, however my question is specific to the boundaries I mentioned.
@@civilapalyan6253 I'm sorry you didn't understand the answer.
Well, I did. And I just told you it wasn't the question in the first place :-)
@@civilapalyan6253 Hint: OMAD ain't it, no matter how much you want it to be.
Rodney Coleman is the best example, he eats every 2 hours, 12 times per day.
Hey Layne. Great video, as always. Huge respect. if I am short of protein in a single meal, can I add a serving of EEAs to my meal to match the dose of protein needed, or will it be a waste? Thanks.
For the algorithm and mo’ money
For the algorithm!
Commenting for the algorithm.
The counterintuitive results regarding lean mass makes me question the whole study.
The protein content was fine. It was ~1.0 g/kg body mass per day, which is pretty good, esp. in non-resistance training men.
Agree with the rest of your video/analysis/conclusions.
If the goal is to produce maximum muscle protein synthesis, then no it’s not. If your goal is just average living, then sure it’s fine.
@@mrw9216 These men were not doing any resistance training. That amount of protein is pretty good in that context.
Hey
For the algorithm
Not enough difference between the two groups.
Test one group given five meals and the other with a two hour eating window.
algo
comment for algorithm: Good vid.
These men were obese or overweight , would be interesting to see if its different with leaner people.
Yeah, fasting insulin measurements would have been the most interesting metric to correlate to lean mass changes. High fasting insulin indicates poor insulin sensitivity and less likelihood to absorb protein well when available.
I thought I've been hearing for years about how TRF results in more lean mass loss... Why is this study surprising, doesn't it just match up with everything else?
multiple servings of high quality protein meals for me
If I heard right in Peter Attia's interview with Don Leyman (# 224), Dr. Leyman was recommending getting at least 25g of protein in the morning to prevent your body from being in a catabolic state. Did I hear that correctly? What's your opinion on getting protein (or carbs) early in the day to prevent this?
That's old school, "bro" knowledge. You wake up in a catabolic state.
@@fatboitino2 Fasting is lean-mass preservative. I think you're quite confused.
@@CarbageMan My comment is directly related to the original comment we are commenting under.
But, if you are already lean- where is your body generating fuel from? You'd be glycogen depleted from fasting; and would be low on body fat levels already. We know that protein is muscle sparing
Would the physiological amount of growth hormone release, be protective enough for higher levels- even supraphysiological muscle mass?
Catabolic is a state of break down.
If you're burning fat- that's a catabolic process. Therefore, fasting is already catabolic. Now- is it detrimental to muscle mass? Maybe not overnight. But, furthering going hours without initiating mTor, and the body breaking into muscle stores for amino acids? Suboptimal
@@fatboitino2 The leanest people have plenty of fat. Let's say you have 8% body fat and you weigh 170 pounds. Thats a ton of calories. I'm not sure I understand your questions. I know what catabolism is. When you work out, that's not only catabolic of fat. That's assumed. The thing is, there's also autophagy, and there's a catabolic period after the fast-an intense one, because you're insulin sensitive. I think you know just enough to impress yourself.
@@CarbageMan you're right, you don't understand. And, I mean contest levels of bodyfat- which is where a lot of this "bro" behavior comes from.
Let me explain the nature of my original content.
The original post brought up taking 25 grams of protein in the morning to prevent muscle catabolism.
I simply stated that was old school "bro" wisdom.
I didn't affirm it, nor deny it
It would have been better if you used a study like this, but was with weight training individuals, and with much higher protein intake. After all, the subject was about time restricted eating and protein synthesis. The study you covered didn't really prove anything. Your analysis is perfect, as usual, but this time you took a left turn at Albuquerque :)
Optimal vs suboptimal in this context wouldn’t be visually noticeable
"Back with another educationally video" cause you have so many un educationally videos😂❤
Comment, just for the algorithm 💪
im a big fan of fasting,but i have to agree that its not the best to recomp, the exception would be people on roids.., i do believed someone would have great results with fasting if they r taking something to prevent muscle loss..(not saying people should jump on gear before fasting)😉
FLA❤
Comment for the algorithm.
Comment for the algorithm
For the algorithm!!!!😎
*Either way, I hate fasting.*
please do a ramadan series and recommendations for people who will be fasting for 30 days .... PLEASSSE
I am more concerned about getting regular carbohydrate so you don't have to get too much sugar in your blood at any one time. Then you can really up your gut bacteria volume, which needs protein. Then they give that protein back in a more constant supply than eating 30 grams of protein 5 times a day. Like I do eat protein 5 times a day, but I think my gut bacteria is supplying me with protein all night long
What you're describing has been found to increase insulin resistance, which in turn causes increased blood sugar over time. You won't see this because it's subtle, and can take years to detect. The way to catch it early is to get a regular fasted HOMA-IR test, which is calculated using fasted insulin and fasted blood sugar.
@@CarbageMan maybe. I did have really bad cholesterol and what I did has fixed that. Gaining a fair bit of muscle now, really muscular people find it really hard to become diabetic. Now have perfect metabolic health, so all good for now
@@brucejensen3081 So you know your fasting insulin and blood sugar.
PS: I developed insulin resistance after resistance training for well over a decade. My cholesterol was great. If your HOMA-IR is good then you’re not insulin resistant.
@@CarbageMan my hba1c was 37 and 5.5% after 11 months of doing what I am doing it's 36 and 5.4%. It's in the normal, but I am hoping to get it under 5%. Although the change wasn't much, I guess it was in the correct way
@@CarbageMan my triglyceride was 8.2 and that was my main focus and I got that to 1.5, whilst getting my hdl from 0.9 to 1.1.
For the algo
Eat right, workout consistently. It’s really that easy.
That *simple*
All you have to do is sort out the lies from the truth in what it means to "eat right" and to "workout consistently."
Not easy at all.
FTA❤
Al go rhythmical comment
#LayneNorton #Cardano 💪
Alligator
I find it odd that a window of 10am to 6pm is considered restricted. I think many people gravitate to that schedule naturally. What would be unrestricted? Eat right when you wake up and right before bed?
Many people eat breakfast before they head out to work/school, so before 8am. They may start dinner at 6pm, but not finish eating until 7pm or later, especially on weekends. So around a 12 hour eating window. Many often eat between meals as well. So an 8 hour eating window is actually a reduction for many people.
I agree, but it was actually 10am breakfast and 8pm dinner, so more than *_ten hours!_*
Fta!
From someone who does 18hr fasts daily (6hr feeding window), I have been able to put on plenty of muscle since I have been doing it.
Is it the most efficient way to building/maintaining mass? Probably not
But due to my busy lifestyle and the overall health benefits intermittent fasting is a better fit for me, I'm not looking to enter any bodybuilding competitions so that's fine by me.
I'm still able to hit my daily protein intake (1-1.2g/lbs bw) quota.
Also have to take into account that doing a fast, weight training in a fasted state and breaking said fast after the training session significantly increases growth hormone in the body (multiple studies that confirm this), so you also have to take that into consideration.
Honestly there are so many variables in this equation that it might be impossible to give a solid yes or no answer on the question of which is better.
My advice for anyone is do whatever suits you goals/your lifestyle the most.
For me I have seen little to no difference when it comes to building muscle, but everyone is different.
FTA
Comment for Algo
Algomment!!
Fasting works!
Cured my diabetes!
This is the shit Lane talks about. Making broad claims without nuances and breakdown.
All you did was eat less calories. Fasting just happens to work for you, but in general, fasting has a poor adherence rate and people fall off the wagon and gain the fat back.
@Goku Kakarot I think op meant to say fasting restored his insulin sensitivity.
@@gokukakarot1855 He did not say he did eat less calories.
@@gokukakarot1855 Studies say you're wrong. There are more benefits to fasting than just being CICOpathic.
I, also, haven't tested diabetic (or pre-diabetic) in nearly five years, after observing a fasting and low carb lifestyle. 👍