Regarding 25:54 , Clam Chowder has existed for a fairly long time, but it was largely just local to the New England area. The build started to gain traction around December of 2023, which is when Clam Chowder formed its own Discord server and when people started to be directed there for more information.
Interesting, thanks for the insight! What would you say are the key cards of Clam Chowder, that the other builds don't have? Just so I can try to see where a potential uptick in Clam Chowder started in the tournament data.
@@Datatog Not sure about what the other lists don't have, but chowder's core axis is that it plays like a breach + evolution deck. So breach/brain freeze/led, neoform/ee/kinnan/dockside/emiel, or derevi/cradle stuff to find a line, with tor/derevi as the grind engine from the cz. What the traditional / pw list has that chowder never has is nicol bolas and those chains. The only planeswalker they run consistently in chowder is teferi, and sometimes minsc and boo and/or aminatou. To summarize, nicol bolas, oath of teferi, selvala inclusions mean almost assuredly it's traditional pw chains. Lack of those and inclusion of breach, thassa's oracle, and the one ring is highly likely to be chowder.
@@Datatog So, Traditional Sisay runs Oath of Teferi and Nicol Bolas Dragon-God, these cards are never seen in other variants of cEDH Sisay. (The same can't be said of Aminatou, which does show up in other versions like Birthing Pod and occasionally Clam Chowder even). For Clam Chowder, other people said Underworld Breach, but since I know some traditional players like Baneslayer have used it, I think a better tell would be something like Mnemonic Betrayal, which I have only ever seen in Clam Chowder lists and never in Traditional Sisay.
While I can't say this for certain, but if memory serves correctly, The jump around Dr. WHO for blue farm didn't have anything to do with the set, rather this was when people started to widely agree that borne upon a wind was a busted card, especially in that deck. People were still questioning it before than and it wasn't in every list iirc. It took awhile for us to evaluate cards then because that was when we were at peak product dump period. I could totally be wrong, but I do remember that it took a couple months for people to come around on Borne.
You might be right. Now looking at the data, the Bowmasters got included immediately at the release of LotR around mid of June 2023, but it took until August 2023 that the first list with Borne made an appearence. Followed by a steady increase and then a jump at around Oct/Nov.
To be fair: Callahan from The Mind Sculptors conceptually does something very similar. They count a draw as 20% of a win (1 point for a draw / 5 points for a win = 0.2 = 20%). So a record of 2-3-1 would be a win rate of 2.2/6 = 36.67% instead of 2/6 = 33.33%. The resulting rankings would be identical, since my metric can be converted into their metric by a constant factor.
Hello! I'm thinking about building tivit. I'm from a non us non proxy community (it means a really investment to build a Cedh deck); so I wanted to know how I can use this data to make an informed decision about if tivit is a good deck to build right now. Thanks!
The boring answer is, that given the data Tivit would not be the optimal choice at the moment. Individual players form an exception and in general Tivit is not the place to be right now. Something like TnK, Sisay or Rog/Si are better positioned. But I think budget contstraints are more important here and I have no idea about cEDH on a budget, but Tivit might be cheaper to put together then the others. Etali, Krark/Sakashima or Magda are currently on a high and might be more budget friendly idk. There are other ressources about budget cEDH out there, but this data does not apply to that.
@@Dubbios If Timetwister is not too important, then maybe yes. Given the data I'd go for something else though. But at this point it's probably worth consulting the budget cEDH community. I have no idea how much each deck is affected by certain constraints.
@@Datatog we play non proxy, so honestly any card above 100ish$ is beyond my reach... Most expensive card I own is jeweled lotus. No mox diamond, led, mana crypts or og duals... But you helped me enough already. You are the man! Thank you so much! Saludos from Venezuela
@@ColorsAreACrutchI agree. I just though it was interesting how he introduced himself as Datatog and concealed his face. I'm not accustom to that personally and im curious if his identity is public, is all. I couldn't find it after a brief search.
Hard to listen and watch, this one. Having some CGI character wobbling around in the corner was odd. I am old, however, and not down with what all the cool kids are doing now.
Datatog was great but the voice changer is absolutely horrible to listen to. Great contest, but the EQ on the voice as well as the left-right balance being insane is something to consider for the future.
Just for clarity, wasn’t climbing mountains in Colorado, I was climbing cool rocks in the Utah desert 😂 - Wounded
If you ever want to give Burden of Dreams a shot and need a guide who speaks Finnish, hit me up :p
Sounds a lot like some political shenanigans.
It’s neither Utah or Colorado.
It’s actually Alaska !
Got em!!
Countered the wrong spell.
Outplayed
So you teach any skin walkers cEDH while you were there?
Max P holding it down flawlessly while the other is away. Great episode thanks for another!
The spatial audio dear lord my ears
People using voice hiding software shouldnt do podcasts
Agreed. The information was great, but that voice changer was harrowing.
Really interesting episode! Great listen on my way to work!
Regarding 25:54 , Clam Chowder has existed for a fairly long time, but it was largely just local to the New England area. The build started to gain traction around December of 2023, which is when Clam Chowder formed its own Discord server and when people started to be directed there for more information.
Interesting, thanks for the insight! What would you say are the key cards of Clam Chowder, that the other builds don't have? Just so I can try to see where a potential uptick in Clam Chowder started in the tournament data.
@@Datatog Not sure about what the other lists don't have, but chowder's core axis is that it plays like a breach + evolution deck. So breach/brain freeze/led, neoform/ee/kinnan/dockside/emiel, or derevi/cradle stuff to find a line, with tor/derevi as the grind engine from the cz.
What the traditional / pw list has that chowder never has is nicol bolas and those chains. The only planeswalker they run consistently in chowder is teferi, and sometimes minsc and boo and/or aminatou.
To summarize, nicol bolas, oath of teferi, selvala inclusions mean almost assuredly it's traditional pw chains. Lack of those and inclusion of breach, thassa's oracle, and the one ring is highly likely to be chowder.
@@Datatog
So, Traditional Sisay runs Oath of Teferi and Nicol Bolas Dragon-God, these cards are never seen in other variants of cEDH Sisay. (The same can't be said of Aminatou, which does show up in other versions like Birthing Pod and occasionally Clam Chowder even).
For Clam Chowder, other people said Underworld Breach, but since I know some traditional players like Baneslayer have used it, I think a better tell would be something like Mnemonic Betrayal, which I have only ever seen in Clam Chowder lists and never in Traditional Sisay.
That line about data leading to better answers rather than answers was deeply insightful.
While I can't say this for certain, but if memory serves correctly, The jump around Dr. WHO for blue farm didn't have anything to do with the set, rather this was when people started to widely agree that borne upon a wind was a busted card, especially in that deck. People were still questioning it before than and it wasn't in every list iirc. It took awhile for us to evaluate cards then because that was when we were at peak product dump period. I could totally be wrong, but I do remember that it took a couple months for people to come around on Borne.
You might be right. Now looking at the data, the Bowmasters got included immediately at the release of LotR around mid of June 2023, but it took until August 2023 that the first list with Borne made an appearence. Followed by a steady increase and then a jump at around Oct/Nov.
Datatog and Max P together??? I'm in love 😍
Sweet. Thanks for the content
Max p talking about data about cedh? I have never slapped that like button faster
FINALY!!!
Someone found a good way to rank cedh decks!
Great job!
Win % doesn’t do it
Conversion rate certainly doesn’t do it.
Points EV!
Fantastic!!
To be fair: Callahan from The Mind Sculptors conceptually does something very similar. They count a draw as 20% of a win (1 point for a draw / 5 points for a win = 0.2 = 20%). So a record of 2-3-1 would be a win rate of 2.2/6 = 36.67% instead of 2/6 = 33.33%. The resulting rankings would be identical, since my metric can be converted into their metric by a constant factor.
Amazing!!!!
Would be interesting to see how the Cody pile matches up.
Hello! I'm thinking about building tivit. I'm from a non us non proxy community (it means a really investment to build a Cedh deck); so I wanted to know how I can use this data to make an informed decision about if tivit is a good deck to build right now.
Thanks!
The boring answer is, that given the data Tivit would not be the optimal choice at the moment. Individual players form an exception and in general Tivit is not the place to be right now. Something like TnK, Sisay or Rog/Si are better positioned. But I think budget contstraints are more important here and I have no idea about cEDH on a budget, but Tivit might be cheaper to put together then the others. Etali, Krark/Sakashima or Magda are currently on a high and might be more budget friendly idk. There are other ressources about budget cEDH out there, but this data does not apply to that.
@@Datatog thank you so much! Same thing applies to Talion? Which may be my other option.
@@Dubbios If Timetwister is not too important, then maybe yes. Given the data I'd go for something else though. But at this point it's probably worth consulting the budget cEDH community. I have no idea how much each deck is affected by certain constraints.
@@Datatog we play non proxy, so honestly any card above 100ish$ is beyond my reach... Most expensive card I own is jeweled lotus. No mox diamond, led, mana crypts or og duals...
But you helped me enough already. You are the man! Thank you so much! Saludos from Venezuela
Player elo is amazing, wow thats incredible
Elo systems tend to be absolutely horrible over tike if there's no reset like season etc
Do we know who datatog is?
Yes, he is Datatog, a wonderful and passionate member of the cedh community who we are honored and lucky to have - Wounded
@@ColorsAreACrutchI agree. I just though it was interesting how he introduced himself as Datatog and concealed his face. I'm not accustom to that personally and im curious if his identity is public, is all. I couldn't find it after a brief search.
@@TheUrDragon25 his identity is not public. That’s his preference
Data is definitely NOT a crutch
datatog, you gotta convert your audio signal from stereo to mono. good episode otherwise
Wounded abandoned us to go find a yeti and teach it cEDH
stella lee just got a top 4 some were
Hard to listen and watch, this one. Having some CGI character wobbling around in the corner was odd. I am old, however, and not down with what all the cool kids are doing now.
Datatog was great but the voice changer is absolutely horrible to listen to. Great contest, but the EQ on the voice as well as the left-right balance being insane is something to consider for the future.
Only two minutes in, but is this actually just adatari lol
16 minutes in, definitely feel like this is Naestrome now lol
30 minutes in, got emmmm 🤣
The voice changer is too unpleasant
Got almost 8 minutes in, sorry man, cant deal with that
Quality chit meng 👌🤌