Why can't the government just make legislation to force freight companies to allow passenger service when there's reasonable capacity? I find it amazing that freight companies claim to be so frequent that even an hourly passenger service is a big deal. We manage 8 passenger trains per hour on the North London Line in London and still have regular freight.
I agree with almost everything you said. However, Mississauga is no longer cheaper than Toronto. I think people now move to Mississauga because they prefer suburban life rather than to find cheap real estate. (Like I said, it's no longer cheaper there.) Oh, and one thing you didn't mention: the Milton line used to have mid-day service in the early 1990s, until Bob Rae killed it when he was premier.
This is excellent news. My one critique of GO RER was the omission of any real service improvements on Milton or Richmond Hill. It seemed like the Liberals were just fixated on electrification and any other improvements that couldn't be done like this were simply ignored. Milton's ridership in spite of actual good service shows how important improvements to it are needed. I think after these improvements it will reseat itself as the 3rd busiest rail line in the GO system (it was unseated by Kitchener Line, but I suspect thats due to the UPX) As for Richmond GO, I still think that they should invest in using the straighter route through Leaside and the Don Bridge, and run some battery powered EMU's along it to Langstaff AD2W, with the existing diesel service trains running the current route to Bloomington peak only.
The obvious reason that the Milton Line and Richmond Hill only get "minimal" Go Train service is that they are also CP's and CN's primary freight corridors. Frequent electric service in those lines (nor Brampton / Kitchener) is not going to happen until the "Missing Link" is built to divert the freight trains.
@@RMTransit I hate the buses... This is great news! I'll look forward to the video tomorrow! Are there Go bus services throughout Hamilton or do you take Hamilton bus service from there?
I note your emphasis at the end of the video on the importance of having (at least) an hourly service. European experience indicates that once a rail service is hourly or better, ridership really takes off. Lines with less than an hourly service struggle to attract custom.
Thanks very much for the video, and thanks for the background on why CP permitted GO trains on this line in the first place. Perhaps I'm naive, but I am always surprised by the disdain that CP shows towards passenger trains. CN isn't crazy about passenger trains, but CP really has something in its DNA that makes them especially allergic to trains that carry people.
It's funny how both tier 1 railways hate passenger service so much since the 70s. They're the same carriers that built massive hotels and stations. CP Hotels (Fairmont) made gobs of cash on that business.
It seems like a lot of Canadian cities could benefit from implementing freight rail bypasses that route around the current cities, much like beltway highways. industry is moving to cheaper areas anyways, put the big yards out there, allowing downtown railyards to be re-developed. The existing Rail would be re-tasked from freight to passenger service... Like Montreal should put a new railway along highway 30 and have a big yard in Valleyfiled and/or Vercheres... far enough from the city to be cheap in land, but not so far as to be expensive in road transport. Also both are on the river, for intermodal.
@@RMTransit even if eventually Cambridge was rerouted onto Milton, it still is beneficial to first build the Kitchener Line route, as it creates a transit system between Cambridge and Guelph, and with the ION phase 2, one could take a train between All cities in the Guelph/Cambridge/Kitchener/Waterloo area.
I personally can't wait for all day Milton Service to start because when Humber College resumes in-person learning that will make my commute much easier to get there from Kennedy GO
I wonder what this will mean for the proposal to extend the Milton line to Galt. As a Cambridge resident I'd love to take a peak-hours train to my job in Toronto instead of driving to Aldershot.
If I had to guess, the geographic population centre of the GTA is probably near Kipling station. It is only a matter of time before that becomes a significant hub. I still dream of a GO line running through the freight line cutting midtown (Etobicoke area to Summerhill to Scarborough area).
Here in Utah, the FrontRunner runs on dedicated tracks, and connects to industries. Union Pacific is allowed to run on the UTA system overnight. The Utah Railway is allowed on our TRAX system overnight, to serve more industries that are scattered around our light rail system.
I have often wondered if there could be a greater trade with CP to build more along Milton Line. One possible chip could be the double stacked train they wanted along the Windsor-Detroit border.
The Milton Line may not have all-day, two-way service but the area it runs in has pretty good bus connections to other transit lines such as the GO Transit Lakeshore West and Kitchener Lines, the TTC Subway Lines 2 Bloor - Danforth and 1 Yonge - University and the Mississauga Transitway should you happen to want to go in the opposite direction or during the off-peak.
My view on the start of the Milton line: City of Mississauga: Allow for passenger rail service on this line or we’ll sue you Canadian Pacific: All Right. Fine Metrolinx: Awesome! New GO line!
Alas, this will just be used as another excuse not to extend the Bloor-Danforth Line into Mississauga as it was planned to be from the 1980s. Imagine, Richmond Hill Centre is little more than a developer's dream at this point but getting the confluence of Hwy 407 Transitway, VIVA Rapidways, GO and TTC subway connections but Square One with all its preexisting development and density will only get an indirect single-tracked link to the Hurontario LRT and the unfinished BRT... Wow!
Was looking forward to this video from you after seeing the announcement! Great content and a great explanation of everything surrounding this line specifically. As someone who’s grown up in the north west corner of Mississauga- I’m incredibly excited to hear an update about the Milton line potentially increasing the frequency!
What would be nice is if a little spur of the Milton line was made just before Cooksville station. And this spur would go underground and make 3 stops. The first stop at Hurontario and Burnhamthorpe (connecting to the future LRT and serving the condos in that area), the second stop at the Square One Transit Terminal and the third stop at Burnhamthorpe and Confederation which would serve all the supertall condos going up in the area. This way, you could live in a condo in Mississauga and commute to Toronto without having to drive to Cooksville station.
Do you think like 2 could/should be extended to Mississauga if high frequencies on the Milton line aren’t feasible? There would be potential for a lot of TOD on dundas between Kipling and Mississauga- maybe an opportunity for an above grade extension?
Meanwhile in Ottawa: The Trains broke again, send help. Please buy the R44s and R46s when they are retired, please! then buy R260s or whatever, would be so much fucking easier than these nightmares.
hourly service in Australia that is considered very below par. A route like this in Australia would be every 10 to 15 minutes all day and on weekends. it would also more likely be electric trains for the entire route. the freight would operate late at night only unless there was quad tracking.
America and Canada should have looked at nationalising the entire freight railway system in to federal government control back during World War 2 when such things were far easier to do under war time emergency powers. The UK did this during war time and created British Rail out of former private railways. today thoses tracks are still owned by the British government. if this had been done the Canadian government would control the physical rail infrastructure nationwide just like with roads today and would have far greater flexibility in passenger transport requirements and additional infrastructure as required.
but for important national infrastructure its a reasonable and acceptable action if it results in a fairer and more sustainable system for the majority of the country. sometimes a few need to be sacrificed for the good of the many.
I drive a lot, which is why I mislabeled Highway 401 and Highway 407 (which is to the North - facepalm)
Damn, the GTA is really stepping up when it comes to transit. Love to see it!
Oh yeah, it's a good feeling! We've been stepping it up for a while now?
How do you put out videos so quickly? Do you even sleep Reece, what's going on here
Sleep is optional, Transit is not!
Why can't the government just make legislation to force freight companies to allow passenger service when there's reasonable capacity? I find it amazing that freight companies claim to be so frequent that even an hourly passenger service is a big deal. We manage 8 passenger trains per hour on the North London Line in London and still have regular freight.
I agree with almost everything you said. However, Mississauga is no longer cheaper than Toronto. I think people now move to Mississauga because they prefer suburban life rather than to find cheap real estate. (Like I said, it's no longer cheaper there.) Oh, and one thing you didn't mention: the Milton line used to have mid-day service in the early 1990s, until Bob Rae killed it when he was premier.
Thrilling
Thrilling
Yeah I'm talking more about origins there
This is excellent news. My one critique of GO RER was the omission of any real service improvements on Milton or Richmond Hill. It seemed like the Liberals were just fixated on electrification and any other improvements that couldn't be done like this were simply ignored. Milton's ridership in spite of actual good service shows how important improvements to it are needed. I think after these improvements it will reseat itself as the 3rd busiest rail line in the GO system (it was unseated by Kitchener Line, but I suspect thats due to the UPX) As for Richmond GO, I still think that they should invest in using the straighter route through Leaside and the Don Bridge, and run some battery powered EMU's along it to Langstaff AD2W, with the existing diesel service trains running the current route to Bloomington peak only.
The obvious reason that the Milton Line and Richmond Hill only get "minimal" Go Train service is that they are also CP's and CN's primary freight corridors. Frequent electric service in those lines (nor Brampton / Kitchener) is not going to happen until the "Missing Link" is built to divert the freight trains.
You can now travel to Hamilton via Go train instead of bus? Or did I hear it all wrong?
Yep! Video coming tomorrow so stay tuned!
@@RMTransit I hate the buses... This is great news! I'll look forward to the video tomorrow!
Are there Go bus services throughout Hamilton or do you take Hamilton bus service from there?
I note your emphasis at the end of the video on the importance of having (at least) an hourly service. European experience indicates that once a rail service is hourly or better, ridership really takes off. Lines with less than an hourly service struggle to attract custom.
Thanks very much for the video, and thanks for the background on why CP permitted GO trains on this line in the first place. Perhaps I'm naive, but I am always surprised by the disdain that CP shows towards passenger trains. CN isn't crazy about passenger trains, but CP really has something in its DNA that makes them especially allergic to trains that carry people.
I agree, passenger trains are part of these railways history!
It's funny how both tier 1 railways hate passenger service so much since the 70s.
They're the same carriers that built massive hotels and stations. CP Hotels (Fairmont) made gobs of cash on that business.
I think it could happen on the WCE.
CP trains get delayed by GO trains on the Milton line ever single day. CP doesn't want their trains delayed.
Good news. WHen is electrification happening? Any updates on that?
Nothing, probably not soon given its not Metrolinx' line
Am I the one who noticed Reece has a different background?
no.
Woohoo great news indeed.👍
It seems like a lot of Canadian cities could benefit from implementing freight rail bypasses that route around the current cities, much like beltway highways.
industry is moving to cheaper areas anyways, put the big yards out there, allowing downtown railyards to be re-developed. The existing Rail would be re-tasked from freight to passenger service... Like Montreal should put a new railway along highway 30 and have a big yard in Valleyfiled and/or Vercheres... far enough from the city to be cheap in land, but not so far as to be expensive in road transport. Also both are on the river, for intermodal.
Would love if there was a connection from Mississauga City Centre to Union. It seems so obvious, yet so far away from happening any time soon.
Hopefully RM Transit does a video dedicated to that.
Hmmm, I wonder if this will open up passenger trackage to Cambridge in time? I hope so.
Possibly, though the Kitchener Line is probably a better route.
@@RMTransit even if eventually Cambridge was rerouted onto Milton, it still is beneficial to first build the Kitchener Line route, as it creates a transit system between Cambridge and Guelph, and with the ION phase 2, one could take a train between All cities in the Guelph/Cambridge/Kitchener/Waterloo area.
No for sure I agree
@@robmausser And in time a spur to Hamilton will round out the network nicely. Cheers
@@peterj.teminski6899 Would definitely like to see that.
I personally can't wait for all day Milton Service to start because when Humber College resumes in-person learning that will make my commute much easier to get there from Kennedy GO
Short regional routes? Be careful not to say it too loudly, the Pacers can hear you...
That's exactly what we need in Grimsby for GO frequent service. Another track on an existing corridor.
I wonder what this will mean for the proposal to extend the Milton line to Galt. As a Cambridge resident I'd love to take a peak-hours train to my job in Toronto instead of driving to Aldershot.
If I had to guess, the geographic population centre of the GTA is probably near Kipling station. It is only a matter of time before that becomes a significant hub.
I still dream of a GO line running through the freight line cutting midtown (Etobicoke area to Summerhill to Scarborough area).
I changed my mind. It is probably somewhere in the imaginary triangle between Kipling, the Junction and Bloor GO.
Here in Utah, the FrontRunner runs on dedicated tracks, and connects to industries. Union Pacific is allowed to run on the UTA system overnight. The Utah Railway is allowed on our TRAX system overnight, to serve more industries that are scattered around our light rail system.
Mississauga needs an extension of the subway, just like york
Yeah, continue Line 2 beside the CP tracks to Streetsville GO, but as a more local service than the Milton Line.
will the barrie line be getting 15 minute service from toronto to barrie?
It's about time
No it's about trains
@@Humulator It was a joke lol. Also you can check my profile, I've been on this site for 10 years, I'm definitely not new here.
@@Humulator bruh
I have often wondered if there could be a greater trade with CP to build more along Milton Line. One possible chip could be the double stacked train they wanted along the Windsor-Detroit border.
Im walking distance from Erindale station. It’s so extremely frustrating that we don’t have all day service to this day
The Milton Line may not have all-day, two-way service but the area it runs in has pretty good bus connections to other transit lines such as the GO Transit Lakeshore West and Kitchener Lines, the TTC Subway Lines 2 Bloor - Danforth and 1 Yonge - University and the Mississauga Transitway should you happen to want to go in the opposite direction or during the off-peak.
Had this planned died? I've heard nothing more about all day train service given the changes to the 21 and milk run A/B/C buses?
Sounds a lot like BS now, with them not even having buses connect to these stations during off-peak hours
Just as long as those foolish freight cars stay right off our path
When will Kitchener Line?
RM Transit and Uniqlo, now that’s a killer combination I’ve never expected.
Love Uniqlo!
Where did you get this info of the Milton line getting all day service I’m really curious and maybe can you put the link pls?
All the info is provided in the video, twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/status/1425130748978270212?s=19
2 years later did it happen?
My view on the start of the Milton line:
City of Mississauga: Allow for passenger rail service on this line or we’ll sue you
Canadian Pacific: All Right. Fine
Metrolinx: Awesome! New GO line!
Alas, this will just be used as another excuse not to extend the Bloor-Danforth Line into Mississauga as it was planned to be from the 1980s.
Imagine, Richmond Hill Centre is little more than a developer's dream at this point but getting the confluence of Hwy 407 Transitway, VIVA Rapidways, GO and TTC subway connections but Square One with all its preexisting development and density will only get an indirect single-tracked link to the Hurontario LRT and the unfinished BRT... Wow!
Great video!
Was looking forward to this video from you after seeing the announcement! Great content and a great explanation of everything surrounding this line specifically. As someone who’s grown up in the north west corner of Mississauga- I’m incredibly excited to hear an update about the Milton line potentially increasing the frequency!
liked video
Trust me if all day go service were to exist on the Milton corridor that would be amazing! Cant wait for go transit to be electrified too.
Cant wait to get GO train service to London!
Now they need to increase the service on the Kitchener line??
does this mean we are likely to have some progress made on the midtown line soon ?
Unlikely, it's not really top of mind
What would be nice is if a little spur of the Milton line was made just before Cooksville station. And this spur would go underground and make 3 stops. The first stop at Hurontario and Burnhamthorpe (connecting to the future LRT and serving the condos in that area), the second stop at the Square One Transit Terminal and the third stop at Burnhamthorpe and Confederation which would serve all the supertall condos going up in the area. This way, you could live in a condo in Mississauga and commute to Toronto without having to drive to Cooksville station.
You can already do that! Take the bus!
@@RMTransit But the train is faster, and it doesn't get stuck in Gardiner traffic. Plus, less parking will be needed at Cooksville station.
Take the bus to the train :)!
Do you think like 2 could/should be extended to Mississauga if high frequencies on the Milton line aren’t feasible? There would be potential for a lot of TOD on dundas between Kipling and Mississauga- maybe an opportunity for an above grade extension?
Line 2?
@@RMTransit oops yeah
It's definitely possible
YEEESSSSSS
2:57 That is not highway 407.
Pinned comment
WOOOOOOO
Meanwhile in Ottawa:
The Trains broke again, send help.
Please buy the R44s and R46s when they are retired, please! then buy R260s or whatever, would be so much fucking easier than these nightmares.
hourly service in Australia that is considered very below par. A route like this in Australia would be every 10 to 15 minutes all day and on weekends. it would also more likely be electric trains for the entire route. the freight would operate late at night only unless there was quad tracking.
Yeah in North America rail freight is much more important.
I believe that the lines are owned by the freight companies (CN and/or CP).
America and Canada should have looked at nationalising the entire freight railway system in to federal government control back during World War 2 when such things were far easier to do under war time emergency powers. The UK did this during war time and created British Rail out of former private railways. today thoses tracks are still owned by the British government.
if this had been done the Canadian government would control the physical rail infrastructure nationwide just like with roads today and would have far greater flexibility in passenger transport requirements and additional infrastructure as required.
@@nickhiscock8948 Nationalizing is government theft. Somebody owned those British railways and had their property stolen by the British government.
but for important national infrastructure its a reasonable and acceptable action if it results in a fairer and more sustainable system for the majority of the country. sometimes a few need to be sacrificed for the good of the many.