I appreciate the video but I would like note trhat while there's no denying the similarities, you should still consider the potential improvements in user experience that may have been made, rather than just dismissing the product as a simple "ripoff." Competition can foster innovation and drive companies to develop better products. Could Microsoft have potentially had an opportunity to enhance certain aspects of Notion and deliver a more refined experience to its users? By concentrating solely on the thought that it's a "ripoff," I feel like you're overlooking what people actually care about which is user experience and objective comparison.
Definitely it is a bit weird. BUT.. Due to compliance reasons I cannot use Notion in the organization, and I’m positive that similar will be introduced by MS.
This is great to know. Thank you for this. So what I'm hearing you say is: I should keep Notion-ing and if I dare need to stay in the ecosystem for a work related project and want to use Notion features I can use loop and its so basic I won't have to explain it to my colleagues if they're afraid to take risks with apps and features
If the loading speed is better than Notion then that alone may bring me over to Loop. Assuming my experience is the same with other features. Edit: If the security is better than this is a big deal as well.
I was immediately drawn to Loop due to its loading speed compared to Notion. I found Notion to be extremely slow, so I stopped using it a long time ago. Additionally, as Loop continues to evolve and improve over time, it has the potential to become an even more powerful productivity tool.
@@adelbennaceur7636 Nice. I will be switching to Loop once their iOS app is available to me. Last I checked it's in limited-access beta mode. Since you've used both apps, is there anything that you miss from Notion that you wish Loop had?
For most people working at any mid size company notion is a security risk and can't/shouldn't be used. Loop being part of Microsoft office makes it's usable for the masses in a professional setting as well as better security. The simple ecosystem benefit is such a big part. While I love notion, I expect to fully be loop only in a year or two once it's more fleshed out. I don't see notion working long term unless it gets backing from apple/google etc to professionalize it otherwise why would any company choose notion if the already have Office?
I completely hear this. Generally, "feel" matters a lot for user experience and their propensity to use a PKM tool consistently. If Notion wins here they always will have some market share
I am a Microsoft employee. Not connected to this, I'm on the Azure side. But I can tell you with 100% certainty its not Microsoft's goal to make a solid product. Its goal is to make a half ass clone of everything good out there but bundle it to the inescapable swamp of an ecosystem, cram some AI/ML into it, and create a new license tier for it. Its indicative of the sad cultural regression going on at MSFT.
It’s currently like baby Notion, nowhere near adult Notion, yet (but give it time). For my partner, who’s company is entrenched in the Microsoft ecosystem, this is for him. For me, I have no interest until it comes to apple IOS. I believe it’s only available on MacOS and Windows desktop (and I think Android), and I would need it to be available on all of my devices.
Whilst I totally appreciate the ranting and annoyance of the vid cos copying something so closely does suck, as a small business owner who has gotten to the point of extreme frustration in having to consider adding yet another system to my already burgeoning tech stack, and another subscription fee if I added something like notion, it does make me seriously consider moving my ecosystem solely to MS to pay just flat fee monthly for so much "extra". It would cut my current cost down like $100-200 pm, which would make a difference especially if everything works seemly less and if copilot coming out does in fact use AI to make it even better. The only thing stopping me is the lack of support in set up and 100s hours redoing everything... 🤔
Imo both are two different platforms, and not comparable. Notion is all in one, loop is like a place (aka canva) or a hub where you store other files and documents from Microsoft ecosystem (ex: if you want to do advanced databases bring in an excel file, if you want board or calendar database bring in from Microsoft lists) that’s how I see it
You're confusing product and category. Notion: component/block workspace category, Lotus-123/Excel: spreadsheet category, WordPerfect/Microsoft Word: WYSIWYG word processor category, Lotus SmartSuite/Microsoft Office: bundled office productivity category. Everything looks like a ripoff of things that create or advance a category. Categories aren't owned or defensible - second-movers have an advantage, first-movers try to build moats to keep their advantage.
I get it, and hopefully Notion and Cod can survive, but work, the company is basically running on MS apps, so as soon as a calendar is up and running on Loop we will cancel the coda subscription and just stay inside in the MS ecosystem so we do not have to be duplicating effort or jumping between apps.
Great point, I have only watched videos of Loop and wondered if this was the case because it seemed like they were avoiding perspectives that showed if it was a notion ripoff.
Snapchat > Instagram. Uber > Lyft. Apple > Samsung. Coke > Pepsi. Wright Brothers > Glenn Curtiss. Edison > Westinghouse. McDonald's > Burger King. Gillette > Schick. Ford > General Motors. Not even new or unique. Just business as usual.
Sad. Despite that being inside the Microsoft ecosystem could be seen as a benefit, I was hoping for at least some kind of additional feature and not this carbon copy of Notion... Maybe they are gonna provide, at least, an offline mode?
imo it's very sim to mobile/cell phones timeline. They started off fairly different and now it's tiny lil' differences. The industry's very homogenized.
Slack was/is better, MS still captured the market with Teams. Notion might be better, but MS will again capture the market with Loop. A corporation of Microsoft's scale (budget and market penetration) can blatantly copy innovative ideas and still beat their innovators.
"Teams doesn't just do similar things as Slack - it _looks_ like Slack." No, dear article writer, no. Or is "has a sidebar list of stuff and a chat area" enough? Loop's absolutely just shamelessly copying a ton of stuff though.
Go deeper and find out, why loop is more crappy underneath the UI: It stores it’s information in files on the users OneDrive! No components to syndicate content. Wild sharing. No real integration into the ecosystem, especially Teams. So lame in many ways.
The resemblance to Notion is uncanny. It's nice it can be integrated nicely into the MS ecosystem. Other than that, nah. MS products cannot beat Notion's user experience and its community. For personal use, I will stick with Notion
Loop is a ripoff of Notions. Teams is a ripoff of Slack. Planner is a ripoff of Asana. Microsoft's entire business model these days is copying other popular applications.
With all the $ and resources MS has, I'm surprised Loop looks so half baked, unpolished, and bare minimum. MS keeps on maintaining the sack of worms and maggots aesthetic we all know and love .
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). And the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and the punishment of sin is eternal damnation. But Jesus, the Son of God dwelt among us in the flesh, live a perfect life, and died for our sins in the cross so that the fine and penalty of our sins will be paid, so that He may give us eternal life and save us. All we just need to do is to put our faith in Jesus and what He did for us not in our good works or ourselves and to just repent from our sins (turning from every sins) and will actively follow Jesus every day. He wants a relationship with you.
Im feeling you. As noted by some people here this is just the nature of business. However, what i dislike is that Microsoft is so embedded in organizations I feel that it gives them an unfair advantage over other products. Like I've got no chance of trying to get my leadership to buy notion licenses over loop access or slack licenses when we have Teams for "free". Using your monopoly to push crappy software sucks for the end user and i wish they would stop expanding into new spaces. Fat chance.
Check out Microsoft Loop ➡ www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-loop
I appreciate the video but I would like note trhat while there's no denying the similarities, you should still consider the potential improvements in user experience that may have been made, rather than just dismissing the product as a simple "ripoff." Competition can foster innovation and drive companies to develop better products. Could Microsoft have potentially had an opportunity to enhance certain aspects of Notion and deliver a more refined experience to its users? By concentrating solely on the thought that it's a "ripoff," I feel like you're overlooking what people actually care about which is user experience and objective comparison.
I appreciate this sentiment and comment. I hope without a doubt that Microsoft provides more to the product ASAP.
Definitely it is a bit weird. BUT.. Due to compliance reasons I cannot use Notion in the organization, and I’m positive that similar will be introduced by MS.
Good point!
This is great to know. Thank you for this. So what I'm hearing you say is: I should keep Notion-ing and if I dare need to stay in the ecosystem for a work related project and want to use Notion features I can use loop and its so basic I won't have to explain it to my colleagues if they're afraid to take risks with apps and features
Yes, exactly
If the loading speed is better than Notion then that alone may bring me over to Loop. Assuming my experience is the same with other features.
Edit: If the security is better than this is a big deal as well.
totally fair
I was immediately drawn to Loop due to its loading speed compared to Notion. I found Notion to be extremely slow, so I stopped using it a long time ago. Additionally, as Loop continues to evolve and improve over time, it has the potential to become an even more powerful productivity tool.
@@adelbennaceur7636 Nice. I will be switching to Loop once their iOS app is available to me. Last I checked it's in limited-access beta mode.
Since you've used both apps, is there anything that you miss from Notion that you wish Loop had?
For most people working at any mid size company notion is a security risk and can't/shouldn't be used.
Loop being part of Microsoft office makes it's usable for the masses in a professional setting as well as better security.
The simple ecosystem benefit is such a big part. While I love notion, I expect to fully be loop only in a year or two once it's more fleshed out.
I don't see notion working long term unless it gets backing from apple/google etc to professionalize it otherwise why would any company choose notion if the already have Office?
I completely hear this. Generally, "feel" matters a lot for user experience and their propensity to use a PKM tool consistently. If Notion wins here they always will have some market share
@@DemetriPanici yeah agreed. For personal use definitely can't be beat. Just not sure what Notions break even for users is.
What exactly is wrong with Notion security? Lots of people mention it but no one specifies the issue.
I am a Microsoft employee. Not connected to this, I'm on the Azure side. But I can tell you with 100% certainty its not Microsoft's goal to make a solid product. Its goal is to make a half ass clone of everything good out there but bundle it to the inescapable swamp of an ecosystem, cram some AI/ML into it, and create a new license tier for it. Its indicative of the sad cultural regression going on at MSFT.
It’s currently like baby Notion, nowhere near adult Notion, yet (but give it time). For my partner, who’s company is entrenched in the Microsoft ecosystem, this is for him. For me, I have no interest until it comes to apple IOS. I believe it’s only available on MacOS and Windows desktop (and I think Android), and I would need it to be available on all of my devices.
That's totally fair and I believe you are right it's not available on IOS
Whilst I totally appreciate the ranting and annoyance of the vid cos copying something so closely does suck, as a small business owner who has gotten to the point of extreme frustration in having to consider adding yet another system to my already burgeoning tech stack, and another subscription fee if I added something like notion, it does make me seriously consider moving my ecosystem solely to MS to pay just flat fee monthly for so much "extra". It would cut my current cost down like $100-200 pm, which would make a difference especially if everything works seemly less and if copilot coming out does in fact use AI to make it even better. The only thing stopping me is the lack of support in set up and 100s hours redoing everything... 🤔
completely fair
Imo both are two different platforms, and not comparable.
Notion is all in one, loop is like a place (aka canva) or a hub where you store other files and documents from Microsoft ecosystem (ex: if you want to do advanced databases bring in an excel file, if you want board or calendar database bring in from Microsoft lists) that’s how I see it
Totally fair
You're confusing product and category. Notion: component/block workspace category, Lotus-123/Excel: spreadsheet category, WordPerfect/Microsoft Word: WYSIWYG word processor category, Lotus SmartSuite/Microsoft Office: bundled office productivity category. Everything looks like a ripoff of things that create or advance a category. Categories aren't owned or defensible - second-movers have an advantage, first-movers try to build moats to keep their advantage.
I get it, and hopefully Notion and Cod can survive, but work, the company is basically running on MS apps, so as soon as a calendar is up and running on Loop we will cancel the coda subscription and just stay inside in the MS ecosystem so we do not have to be duplicating effort or jumping between apps.
Great point, I have only watched videos of Loop and wondered if this was the case because it seemed like they were avoiding perspectives that showed if it was a notion ripoff.
Thanks for the comment!
Snapchat > Instagram. Uber > Lyft. Apple > Samsung. Coke > Pepsi. Wright Brothers > Glenn Curtiss. Edison > Westinghouse. McDonald's > Burger King. Gillette > Schick. Ford > General Motors. Not even new or unique. Just business as usual.
totally fair
What has ever come out of Redmond that is *not* a rip-off? (except for Clippy the paper clip)
fair question
Sad. Despite that being inside the Microsoft ecosystem could be seen as a benefit, I was hoping for at least some kind of additional feature and not this carbon copy of Notion... Maybe they are gonna provide, at least, an offline mode?
There is definitely some additions that I mentioned but not as much as I'd like
imo it's very sim to mobile/cell phones timeline. They started off fairly different and now it's tiny lil' differences. The industry's very homogenized.
true
Yeah. True. But why are you surprised. The point is that Loop is integrated. That is everything. And loop will improve.
Slack was/is better, MS still captured the market with Teams. Notion might be better, but MS will again capture the market with Loop.
A corporation of Microsoft's scale (budget and market penetration) can blatantly copy innovative ideas and still beat their innovators.
"Teams doesn't just do similar things as Slack - it _looks_ like Slack." No, dear article writer, no. Or is "has a sidebar list of stuff and a chat area" enough?
Loop's absolutely just shamelessly copying a ton of stuff though.
thanks for the comment
I think loop is what i need more. The same product as notion but with higher level of encryption
totally fair
why? is it e2e encrypted?
@@leoceoliveira no its p2p
Why is this even legal?
I have no idea
Microsoft and creativity 😂 Remember that Windows 95 was the equivalent of Mac 87.
facts
You don't mention many things suck like the link building between note is horrible, the app is lagging so much (even worst on mobile)
totally fair
Go deeper and find out, why loop is more crappy underneath the UI:
It stores it’s information in files on the users OneDrive!
No components to syndicate content.
Wild sharing.
No real integration into the ecosystem, especially Teams.
So lame in many ways.
Now if Google makes a notion alternative???? I'm sold, its game over
Yeaaaaah true
It's barely even that. Can't add pages, embed anything, etc.
fair
Loop should be called Sloop.
I’d really like to see the counterpart of google.
fair
The resemblance to Notion is uncanny. It's nice it can be integrated nicely into the MS ecosystem. Other than that, nah. MS products cannot beat Notion's user experience and its community. For personal use, I will stick with Notion
Thanks for sharing!
I wish open source people would have done notion ripp off, it would be good for us.
that'd be interesting
@@DemetriPanici I found Siyuan on GitHub a open source project who has done it. But it's a Chinese company, I don't know if they can be trusted.
Same frustration habibi. Microsoft lackin' here.
ty for the comment
Loop is a ripoff of Notions. Teams is a ripoff of Slack. Planner is a ripoff of Asana. Microsoft's entire business model these days is copying other popular applications.
fair
Your videos are so good. Only congratulations for now. 🎉
Thanks! 😃
With all the $ and resources MS has, I'm surprised Loop looks so half baked, unpolished, and bare minimum. MS keeps on maintaining the sack of worms and maggots aesthetic we all know and love .
totally agree
So crap. No databases. All they have is Lists which is bad
disappointing for sure
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). And the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and the punishment of sin is eternal damnation. But Jesus, the Son of God dwelt among us in the flesh, live a perfect life, and died for our sins in the cross so that the fine and penalty of our sins will be paid, so that He may give us eternal life and save us. All we just need to do is to put our faith in Jesus and what He did for us not in our good works or ourselves and to just repent from our sins (turning from every sins) and will actively follow Jesus every day. He wants a relationship with you.
thanks for the comment
Im feeling you. As noted by some people here this is just the nature of business. However, what i dislike is that Microsoft is so embedded in organizations I feel that it gives them an unfair advantage over other products. Like I've got no chance of trying to get my leadership to buy notion licenses over loop access or slack licenses when we have Teams for "free". Using your monopoly to push crappy software sucks for the end user and i wish they would stop expanding into new spaces. Fat chance.
10000000% facts