I thought it was fine. I didn't love it, but didn't hate it either. People who either "love" or "hate" it seem to be putting their biases on full display as far as I can tell.
Just what you said. Didn't like it. Liked Lord of the rings, the books are better. Sad they took a lot out In the movies. I know it would have Made a 4th and 5th maybe. But for those of us who liked the books, it would have been all good.
"Tolkien's universe is one step above ours and Martin's is one step below" I love this take! Song of Ice and Fire has a lot going for it, buuuuuut yeah, it has its fair share of pornographic sections. Nothing as pointless and "sex position"y as the show, but just as explicit.
@@stevendouglas3781 I agree, Martin was so caught up in trying to be subversive that he wrote himself into a corner, not even he can harvest the seeds he's planted. Now there are weeds everywhere.
@@Cklert I honestly still don't think he "wrote" it himself. It reads as a D&D campaign the DM makes "hardcore", and tells everyone to bring multiple characters because they WILL die, it would explain his writers block too as I think one of his players died and he can't deal with it or replace them... That isn't to say he's a weak writer as he would've made the scenario and much of the world building, but trying to invoke or replace a dead friend's thought patterns in a work would be gutting. Edit: as far as the sex, I agree with the UA-camr, Sex in GRRM's world is generally for shock value, realism(in the sense of "and this is why we take baths/avoid prostitutes Timmy" in other words showing how bad midevil practices were) or the old teenagers in a horror movie trope where the characters tend to die badly. Never really watched the show though, I refuse to watch until I read the last book or Martin kicks the bucket(though I won't h8 watch it immediately in case of the latter, I just won't watch on principle unless it already happened.)
@@michaellane5381 I think that's a pretty good analogy. Martin's biggest issue is that he creates many intriguing plot threads and hooks but I don't think he actually knows how to stick the landing. So when he does kill someone, it is meaningful, but it's a double edge sword. It effectively means that no one else can possibly carry on what that character was pursuing. I don't really think he's a bad writer either, for the record. But I do think he leaned a little bit too much in subverting Tolkien High Fantasy, to where he can't exactly figure out how to execute crucial points. Martin is a "Gardener" type of author, where he lets established things grow slowly which is good for building up rising action just before the climax. The issue is that he doesn't know when to harvest. So he just keeps on planting new things to grab the readers' interest. Hence my weeds analogy.
People who like the show don't understand the problem with the show is THE PHILOSOPHY. It directly bastardizes his work, and even the existence of the show as an "updates" ignores Tolkien's critiques of modernism.
F**k off. It's a fantasy story no deeper than that. You're like the morons who think you need to be intelligent to appreciate Rick and Morty which is basically fart jokes and scatological references.
One of the things I can say, from my point of view: the makers of ROP don't know virtue. Tolkien knows a lot about virtue. For example, Galadriel is driven by vengeance and becomes a warrior. Being driven by vengeance is not a virtue, that's why so many people say that ROP's Galadriel is so unlikable (among other virtues that Galadriel lacked). This is just one example among many other examples.
@@anni.68 I don't disagree. Elves aren't saints (sanctity and sin are things that Tolkien knew well, but the makers of ROP had little idea about, that's why the series became so shallow), but some elves, perhaps many, showed great virtues. Aside from hate, a couple of elves had lust on Luthien, aside from other examples of lack of virtue showed by some elves, i just don't remember now. It's the little i know of the works of Tolkien. I'm not a very big fan, but I love his works.
Hilarious that you actually understood what the writers of the show were saying and yet levied this criticism against them. Galadriel's quest for vengeance leads to the horror of Mount Doom's eruption and the rise of Sauron. Is that not them saying that vengeance leads one to hell?
@@5quepasa How? The eruption would have happened anyway, she had nothing to with it... She brought Sauron to Mordor, true, but the eruption was Adar's work and would have happened anyway.
Honestly, IMO Martin does not turn Tolkien's philosophy on its head. Martins's story is just another Post Modern monarchy is bad story that will not last the test of time. LOTR will last forever because it speaks to the human spirit! (Similar to the illyaid) GOT will be forgotten in a few years. Also, there are Pronagrafic scenes in the book that describe details that are so unnecessary.
Oh my God it’s Pixie, never expected this. I love ur channel and Lord of The Rings, despite the issues with GRRM I still find his books good cause they read like fake history, way to sexually graphic tho
WOW ! I'm a Tolkien Fanatic , I've read the Silmarillion , The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings literally over 200 X's. I'm 54 & started at 12yrs old. I didnt watch this show because I knew it would be bad but I had no idea it would be that bad. I'm so glad I didnt waste my time.
The reveal of Halbrand as Sauron (to the surprise of no one) made the destruction of Galadriel complete. In the books she was among the most powerful and wise with the gift of insight to the hearts of others that even Feanor's cannot sway her to give away strands of her hair seeing through his heart. And RoP pretty much made her a rage filled warrior princess being strung along by the main villain LOL
I’m not much of a Tolkien observer or lorist to know the nuances and differences in the Rings of Power, but after the first episode I thought it was trash.
For anyone interested in clean epic fantasy I’d recommend Brandon Sanderson. Stormlight Archive is phenomenal and the finished Mistborn trilogy is amazing
It's funny trying to tell people about Sanderson because he has so many amazing twists and reveals, leading we fans to be dedicated to the RAFO (Read And Find Out) concept because we don't want to spoil it for anyone. So when we want to explain the books, it's like, "What's it about?" and we have to spend five minutes trying to figure out how to tell them without even small spoilers 😀
@@steelytemplar I think if you said something about how compelling the plots/characters are, how believable/relatable it is, how much humor it has, and how wholesome it is, then that gives us family-friendly-types enough information to at least think about checking them out.
Eh, haven’t watched it. Absolutely refuse to, despite my sheer adoration for Tolkien. I won’t give Amazon an inch. And to think, Netflix now owns the rights to Narnia… God help us.
Matt, I have to recommend Brian Jaques's Redwall series. It is great for Children, light yet catholic in substance. Great with your children, and fun too for leisurely reading.
I remember reading every Redwall book in my school's library... Really loved them and I still love them. There is also a Redwall recipe book and two Redwall games on Steam: The Lost Legends of Redwall: The Scout Act 1,2 & 3 (which is set in the time of the book Redwall) and The Lost Legends of Redwall: Escape the Gloomee (which is set in the time of the book Mossflower).
Saruman and Denathor are Tolkien's examples of what happens when you indulge in a little evil in order to do good. ROP totally misunderstands this and makes this Galadriel's main moral framework. This complete contradiction of Tolkien and the addition of treating Galadriel like shes a rebellious teenage girl (Despite being thousands of years old at the point of this story) made me hard pass on it.
I love this hahaha. Glad to hear Galadriel being a warrior is out of character from a dedicated fan. I was shocked when I found out the main blonde elf chick was supposed to be Lady Galadriel. Like really?? I've only seen the LOTR and Hobbit movie trilogies, and Galadriel was always more of an ethereal mage. She's an amazing, gentle, compassionate, yet surprisingly powerful figure!! Why on earth did they put her in armor with a sword like she's Aragorn. They should have at the very least kept her a magic user, or made the protagonist a new elven warrior chick to fill their need for an action protagonist. Also, "I can't do boobs! I can only do boobs in the right context!" 😂😂
This is like being shocked that Anakin Skywalker in the Phantom Menace is nothing like Vader in the original trilogy. Galadriel will evolve into the character we see in LOTR over a 5 season arc. Her magical powers come from the Ring she wields, which was forged only at the end of this season.
@@JM-19-86No she had magical powers well before the ring, being a student of Melian I think. And no Galadriel was never a warrior, she was an athlete of incredible ability but never partook in the dirtier side of war. By the time the show takes place Galadriel should already be married and have a daughter.
@@jarlwilliam9932 That's the rather incredible problem---that their lame story ideas were considered a good enough excuse to alter one of the few "knowns" in the time period they were choosing to cover. Also they didn't write her to be smart enough to evolve.
Notice that the writers of that last Star Wars trilogy did the same lame thing with Leia -- take a woman of royalty and demote her to general, because that way she oozes with masculine power. It's lame.
@@JM-19-86 Ummm.... no. No they don't. You clearly haven't read The Simarillion. Galadriel's learned magic from Melian, her angelic Aunt in the 1st Age and from the Valar before she left the undying lands. She didn't gain them from her RIng: that's not actually what Rings of Power do... you should know that if you read Tolkien...
What Michael said about the good people of Westeros like John, Tyrion and the Stark children (reluctantly) taking power, because the alternative is the insane and the corrupt like Ramsay and Cersei taking it, makes so much sense. Never before I heard Martin's work explained that way. Brilliant.
" I wanna see a shitty person CHOOSE to be good." Ladies and Gentlemen… go read Shad’s book “Shadow of the Conquerer.” This is literally what he does. Definitely not for kids, but it’s worth a read.
It's not even good action. She leads the army (a few hundred?) to battle someone, somewhere, and charge by coincidence into a small village that was overrun despite not knowing its location or that they were under attack. And the claim that orcs were there was all based on some guy she just met out in he ocean. And it's not even her army, its the Numenorians. Then a volcano blows up, which she survived despite taking the pyroclastic cloud head on as it burns everything. It's all very low-key stuff. Small numbers, empty or samey scenes, and bogged down by cringe dialogue.
It's not coincidence - pay attention next time. The small numbers make a lot of sense, both in-universe (it's a time of peace in Middle-Earth) and out (evey season can up the ante with bigger battles).
@@JM-19-86 umm, it was coincidence, due to awful writing. They were charging on horseback after leaving the ships and happened upon the very place Adar and his orcs were attacking (which was a group of people from all over the Southlands, not that one place). They were motivated by the claim of a stranger (Halbrand) who they believe was heir because of something he carried, despite the line being dead for a 1000 years, which Galadriel eventually discovered after actually fetching some info on the throne there. She also met Halbrand on a raft in he middle of the ocean after she jumped off her own with the intention to swim back to Middle Earth. Coincidence was heavily used in the series to avoid the harder creative plotting so characters could get from point a to point b. It was a terrible show on almost every front.
I believe George Martin said he writes his characters under the belief that each individual has the capacity for absolute evil and absolute good. Some characters you hate in GoT end up changing and becoming good, other bad characters stay bad, some good characters turn and become bad. He emphasized the potential of the individual to affect their surroundings in different ways
One episode was enough to show me how much of a horrible program it is. Rings of Power is a bastardization, a mongrelization of what Professor Tolkien created; there are no words at all I can say to express how much Ioathe it.
I don't think Game of Thrones is an inversion of Tolkien's philosophy but a deconstruction-reconstruction of it. Just like how the Ring scourged Frodo down to his soul, Eddard Stark's honour got him killed but the Northmen are braving the cold winter and starvation for "Ned's girl". All the while the rotten legacy of Tywin Lannister is on its last leg.
I doubt many Catholics who watch Matt’s content give a care about pop-culture. It’s unfortunate because such ignorance leaves that monster of influence unchecked. Catholics could make pop-culture so much better, like Tolkien did in his time, but too many of us are checked out.
This is an amazing point! Evil left unchecked is incredibly dangerous and while I understand pop culture apathy but it's leaving the devil to play in the playground on his own and when it comes to pop culture its a huge danger to our children and the future generations.
Matt - If you want good, deep, and moral fantasy, read Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn or Stormlight Archives series. They are among the greatest works of epic fantasy ever written and Sanderson is a very upstanding man. "Life before death, Strength before weakness, Journey before destination." - The First Ideal of the Knights Radiant
Except that by the third book in the Stormlight Archives, Brandon sadly begins to throw lgbt ideology into the mix... It's so pointless that you could remove those sections and it wouldn't affect the story line. I was quite disappointed that he chose to alienate a large section of his followers.
@Jacob Murphy No one said that Sanderson's writings are ready for an imprimatur. Also, there is a vast difference between having small inclusions of LGBT characters and making them a major focus. The difference between what is in Sanderson's writing and what we get in what one might call "woke" shows is pretty vast. In the end, everyone will have their own opinions on what is comfortable. Being someone who seeks to live according to the teachings of the Catholic Church with no attempts to bend them to something different, I neither find a reason to stop reading Sanderson nor to hesitate in recommending him to other Catholics. The ideas in these stories which fit with the Catholic worldview far outweigh those which are at odds with it.
@Steely LMAO the need to include an imprimatur! I think I get what you mean though. We shouldn't dehumanize anyone just because they are in a state of mortal sin.
To the host, I truly think you should find an hour to watch Dr. Ralph Wood give his speech on Tolkien and Catholicism. There are plenty versions on YT here and the one at Aquinas College is available :) I’d also highly recommend you give LOTR a shot as a read. Considering you are Catholic, Tolkien’s attempt to create his own myth was heavily influenced by his own spiritual and religious beliefs, and his story is absolutely full of allusions, metaphors, and symbolisms of his faith. It’s something that I believe will truly complement and supplement your faith, as well as give you a first step into the beautiful world and stories the Professor created. Second, I love how Michael gets riled up just at correcting the title lol. It was then I knew his review and critiques would be on point. He articulates very well how most Tolkien fans felt. Thanks for hosting him. First time seeing you both. Cheers, and may the Blessings of Elves, Men, and Free Folk go with you!
Tolkien identified a fundamental problem with even _trying_ to make Elves the point-of-view characters of a novel-type narrative (and not a legend): "In _narrative_ , as soon as the matter becomes 'storial' and not mythical, being in fact _human_ literature, the centre of interest _must_ shift to Men (and their relations with Elves or other creatures). We cannot write stories _about_ Elves, whom we do not know inwardly; and when we try we simply turn Elves into Men." - _Letters_ , 212 And sure enough, the Elves of TRoP are nothing more than Men (or Humans if you like) with pointy ears. Literally: Sauron/Halbrand cannot identify Galadriel as an Elf until he looks at her ears. And they will continue net season by making Sauron just some guy with identifiable human motives and problems. But even if Rings of Power were a wholly original production with all the Tolkien serial numbers (and names) filed off, it would be a train wreck. The elf-lady who jumps ship would still have to cross an ocean. The people on that island would still be living in an isolation that defies explanation. The whole 'magical metal' plot line would still make no sense at all (hint: if you send a spy to find a magical metal, let him know what he's looking for). The Stranger plot would still serve no purpose in this season. The times and distances would still make no sense at any point. You would still have people happily living through a volcanic fireball. It's just not good drama, unless you think that pretty photography and a stirring score are sufficient for good drama.
Tolkien's wrote multiple versions of Galadriel as his concept of her changed greatly over time. Most of us just know one or maybe two. For example, he wrote the following: “Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Fëanor maybe […] Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth. "Galadriel was a Sindarin name given to (and accepted by) her after her coming to Beleriand, meaning 'lady of the golden crown' or 'coronal', referring to the braids of her golden hair (braided high)." "She was then of amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." Tolkien created (or sub-created as he would say) such a ridiculous scope of material for Lord of the Rings and the thousands of years of legendarium surrounding it...and he was constantly rethinking and revising right up until his death...Even after spending extensive time studying LOTR, the Silmarillion, etc, I have been forced to realize how little most of us know about the breadth of what Tolkien wrote, much less, additional versions as he continually revised and retconned . Highly recommend Corey Olsen for a scholarly approach to Tolkien and Tolkien adaptations, for example: "The Metahistory of Galdriel" ua-cam.com/video/Z8w2dCw2izM/v-deo.html
Galadriel was born in Valinor during the Age of the Trees. The quotes you give are about her when she was young. In several letters Tolkien talked about Galadriel "when she was young" and it is clear that this was in Valinor. By the beginning of the 2nd Age Galadriel was about 2000 years old, married to Celeborn and a mother. She was not young, brash, angry or a warrior princess. Olsen supports ROP and my opinion of him has taken a big hit.
Excellent point about Martin turning Tolkien in his head. In Tolkien, the honorable guy succeeds. In Martin, the honorable guy gets stabbed in the back every turn. And the only way the honorable guy survives is to start doing some dishonorable things.
I must disagree. The Last Wish and Blood of Elves are alright, but apart from that, Andrej Sapkowski is just not a good writer. And the proof of this is that his most famous 'creation', Geralt of Rivia, is just another Elric rip-off. In fact outside of Batman, the Witcher is probably one of the most blatant acts of plagiarism ever perpetrated.
@@skywolfc2040 I don´t know Elric so I can´t comment, but why does everything have to be plagiarism? Can´t it just be inspiration? A character like this is certainly not all that unique, jut look at the middle ages. And I am not saying Sapkowski is the best writer ever, but there are far worse books out there.
What he doesn't say and is very important is that they are not only in the middle of the ocean going west but that they are refugees from Middlearth. Even if they were halfway between Middlearth and Numenor instead of between Numenor and Valinor, which is not suggested to be fair, their immigration to Valinor wouldn't make any sense lorewise...It would be harder than getting from Mexico to US on a formal level coupled with a fact that they wouldn't know how to bavigate there and would need a very good ship and a captain.. and even the best one human from Middlearth would reject the plan as insane... there js so many things wrong with that show not only lorewise
The Ring of Power is so horrendously terrible, I watched it through the entire first season just to see how low it could go. It didn't fail to deliver. I have read LOTR and The Hobbit, but not Tolkien's other works (yet), but just from the standpoint of a viewer the writing in ROP is an epic failure. The dialogue, which is obviously meant to sound lofty and poetic, instead comes across like a middle schooler's attempt at writing high fantasy. And don't get me started on the writers' sense -- or lack thereof -- of timing and geography. On the plus side, great visuals, (mostly) very good acting, decent soundtrack; on the negative, everything else.
i wrote fan fiction for LOTR as a young man, and could not bring myself to watch 1 second of the show... that should tell the producers all they need to know about their target audience
For good fantasy without sexual content except for one line in the final book where it's implied a married couple has sex, I seriously recommend the Queen's Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner. Easily my favorite series!
My thoughts exactly! The whole swimming-thing sounds dumb, at least within the context of Tolkien's LOTR Universe, but to be fair... when SILVERS RAYLEIGH does it in OnePiece, it's totally badass and hype as all F#$k. If you don't know, OnePiece is a shonen-anime that takes place in a fictional world composed almost entirely of oceans and islands, ruled by a global regime known very straightforwardly as the World-Government, and is chock-full of superpowered pirates, sea-monsters, giants, fish-people, friggin cyborgs, the list goes on. Anyway, there's this area of ocean known as the Calm-Belt, which is so-named because there's basically zero weather, no wind or ocean currents at all, thus it's basically impossible to sail through, and worse, it's the breeding-ground for millions of gigantic sea-monsters, so if you enter the Calm-Belt, you're basically SharkZilla-food... Unless of course, you happen to be an ABSOLUTE BOSS, which Silvers Rayleigh most definitely is. Rayleigh is so badass, that when he goes swimming, the sea-monsters all swim away in pants-crapping fear of HIM! And rightfully so!🤯 Side-Note: OnePiece is over ONE THOUSAND episodes long, and it's STILL GOING.
An assistant priest at one of our local parishes was an avid watcher of Game of Thrones and he declared it at Mass one day- it didn't sit right with me. I agree with Matt- it is pornographic, I have seen a glimpse of it and I can't watch it as, for me, it constitutes the near occasion of sin.
Anyone wanting any shape shifter urban fantasy with Christian undertones ought to check out Ancient Enemies by a dude named Thomas Fisher. Its a little slow at the start, but that changes! Some of the best action I've ever come across! There's this one part in the last battle where I actually cheered out loud, I forgot I was in a crowded room!
Matt, if you're looking for high quality "candy" fiction that isn't smutty, check out Brandon Sanderson's "Mistborn" trilogy. Excellent fantasy using the "mystery box" approach to storytelling, but in a way that is actually satisfying.
6:10 There is a censored version of Game of Thrones available out there. Some episodes have five minutes or more cut out; others only a few seconds or nothing.
I will say there are certainly some scenes in Ice and Fire that could have been written differently to keep the sexual content less explicit, but I generally agree with the guest. Tolkien is great, possibly the greatest literary figure of the 20th Century, and Ice and Fire is not at the same level, but that does not mean it is not worth a read. Now, people should definitely know themselves and what they can handle, as it is brutal and violent and at times explicit, but there are many brutal and violent and explicit scenes in literature. I tend to agree that Martin does not have a Christian worldview, but he certainly understands people very well. Many of the subplots in his books follow the style of Greek tragedies (many of which were also brutal and even sexually explicit at times), where the characters are flawed and these flaws lead to a crucible, where they either emerge renewed and changed or are destroyed.
TROP is the kind of show you expect to get from first time showrunners, who continue to say they respect the lore but don't. When Peter Jackson decided to make the Lord of the Rings everyone in a high level position on the film crew had read the books over and over and loved and respected Tolkien's work. They were always mindful of the thematic content and didn't put any of their baggage into the movies because they loved the mythology as Tolkien wrote it. J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay are NOT fans of Tolkien's work and it shows everywhere throughout this billion dollar dumpster fire. Their intent was to do the exact opposite of what Jackson did. No one in a high level position on this show is a dedicated fan of Middle Earth. The few true experts they hired like Tom Shippey were fired for disagreeing with Payne and McKay and what they were doing to the mythology. They have not respected the thematic material, canon or lore in fact, they have completely disrespected it. The unmitigated gaul of these two amateurs believing THEY know better than Tolkien how to write the second age of Middle Earth have produced a show that is bad across the board. Bad directing, editing, pacing, storytelling, acting, dialogue and generally all aspects of cinema except the CGI, and a billion dollars worth of that SHOULD be decent. If this story had nothing to do with Tolkien it would still SUCK! That they, in their infinite lack of wisdom, decided to dump ALL their PC and Woke baggage into the singularly greatest work of fantasy fiction of all time shows just how clueless they are. They wanted their story to reflect the world we live in today. Just one problem with that boys and girls, no one reads or watches fantasy fiction to be reminded of the world they live in. In fact, it is loved because it provides an ESCAPE from the world we live in today! Middle Earth is a fictional account of an English/Northern European pre-history. There were no black elves, black dwarf women without beards, black Harfoots/Hobbits or black or asian humans because those races did not live in this English/Northern European geographic location! Diversity has to make sense within the story parameters. The showrunners are total "Bad Reboot" untalented, uninspired and unsuccessful Hollywood hacks! The season ending "big reveals were laughable. Everyone knew Meteor Man was Gandalf even though he wasn't due to appear in Middle Earth for another thousand years or so. Everyone knew Halbrand was Sauron from the moment he appeared on screen. Warrior "Guyladriel" did not exist.....ever. Tolkien's Galadriel was so much more powerful than TROP's Guyladriel because she used her intellect and sorceress powers of persuasion to get what she needed. What she didn't need was to be a sword wielding, "Mary Sue/Karen", Zena warrior princess! Bezos must certainly be feeling buyers remorse for having hired Jar Jar Abrams incompetent production team. A billion dollars for a show that could have been great but for the clown car of talentless hacks that were put in charge of it. I hope the other 4 seasons get cancelled before the next 2 years pass. Let this abomination pass into history with all the fanfare accorded an unmarked grave. That's all it deserves. RIP TROP....you suck!
The thing is the philosophy of this people is just that, things happen to people and that's what defines them, the role of their autonomy is always superceded by their race, sex, etc.
“So I look forward to not reading this ever.” 😂 same. Explicit is explicit, regardless of “context.” Nope. Not going there. Implied, ok, but not explicit. It hurts too much.
Why? I'm asking seriously, not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Cause I don't see many objections to depicting murder or theft, for example, so why is sex so utterly unacceptable?
@@lemmypop1300 because the watching of that includes me in the sin. Read the Ten Commandments and Jesus's expanding definition about the thought life and sin.
Obviously the destruction of the world of LOTR is an insult, but what never ceases to blow my mind is how these people who get put in charge of writing billion dollar stories have absolutely no idea how to actually write a story. They don't understand the very basics of what makes a good character or narrative. And it makes perfect sense when you see that these people almost never have any writing credits to their name. I don't know how they get in charge of these things. There are millions of random people who are fans of these things who actually have read books and know how stories work but none of them are ever put in charge of this stuff. Its always some random person with no talent but apparently the right connections.
THANK YOU!!! Horrible, horrible Rings of Power. I am a huge Tolkien fan and would have really enjoyed more stories to watch, but you nailed it, Rings of Power is not character driven, misses the point of good story telling, and it was not informed by the virtues and beauty of Tolkien's themes and philosophy, at least I never saw it in the few episodes I watched. I would love a Lotr story, but this was choppy, the characters most of them unlikable or dead before I could like them and just painful to watch. The cinematography was beautiful, but the wonder and drama seemed hollowed out by the frenetic storytelling to the point I was irritated and groaning. I felt like I was grabbed by the collar and dragged through episodes and I kept going, wait, who was that? What was their purpose; oh their dead, oh well. I had thought to you know endure through it and watch them all, trying to give it a chance, but I forgot about it and went, oh yeah I never finished it. Sad, I am not sure Hollywood has the heart, mind or understanding to create wonder and beauty, transcendent truth or reflect pure love and nobility. Oh and I watched the first season and a half of Game of Thrones series because a friend of mine liked them and wanted to watch them with me, and I am still trying to erase the images from my brain, ewwww. wow some really not beautiful people naked way too much, and a lot of just dark, dark, darkness. I got to the point in Game of Thrones, I kind of hoped they would all die. Yikes. Nope, I think I will stick with Lotr because nobility and self-sacrifice is wonderous and uplifting.
they’ll look at click away stats and stuff for this video but just remember we don’t click away always bc we don’t disagree but bc this stuff is so commonplace nowadays. i totally agree with this dude but i’m also exhausted on hearing it. i just wish they’d quit making the trash no one wants to see
I found the easiest way to get up to speed on GoT and not watch the sex stuff, was to watch clips on UA-cam. You get the best bits, and piece it all together as you go.
Check out council of the rings channel. He is making a script of how rings of power should have been. He’s got two episodes. It’s kind of like hearing a table read with great artwork displayed while you listen.
Re: ASoIaF, I don't think it's necessarily nihilist because there are glimpses of virtue in some characters, and Martin is a self-described capital R Romantic, what I think he does, and he may not do well because it's not conveyed or seen by most people, it's that to be virtuous is a struggle in a world vicious like his is. But it's still good to be virtuous because the virtuous characters are still vindicated, or proven right.
A good book series if you want just something fun that is clean is The staff and the sword by Patrick w. Carr. Also another series by Patrick Carr is The dark water saga. They are good reads. Nothing deep just clean fun.
It's pretty awful. A lot of conservative commentators try to categorize it as a woke mockery of Tolkien's world. Compared to most things nowadays it's not really that woke. But it's just awful writing and a plot that moves slower than molasses for 2/3 of the season and then rapidly charges forward with several head scratching moments the last couple episodes. It's cheap fan baiting and they recycle lines and visuals from the movie trilogy in addition to trying to make up "Tolkien-sounding" dialogue that's just plain bad and cringey. The whole world feels small. It looks expensive yet cheap at the same time. It relies on cheap mystery plot lines to keep you watching. I could go on and on. It's just bad.
I think it is woke in the sense that it has an artificial feel, and the writers seem unfamiliar with the basic theses of Tolkien. So wokism in the sense that it is crass and Materialist without any transcendence that's not artificial.
@@Jim-Mc I'd say this is less wokeness, which to me represents an intentional subversion of a trope in order to pander to an "oppressed" group. In the case of ROP, it's just seems like ignorance and lack of skill to me. And definitely what you mentioned with materialism and artificiality. But I'd argue that's more of the byproduct of our culture of the last 50-60 years than an intentional sabotage. If you listen to interviews with the show runners, they truly THINK they are "doing Tolkien." But they fall waaay short of the mark.
I didn’t like the portrayal of super hero style women whilst the men are either weak, bad or lame.. is just the eternal fight with these people to stop projecting their woke values on the past, similar to what they did to persuasion. Thankfully both projects got some deserved feedback
While I am completely on board with the idea of Rings of Power being bad, I will admit that I do enjoy the Witcher franchise. Sure, Sapkowski is gratuitous in some areas, but the key feature of the books for me is the struggle to do good in a world full of evil. Everyone struggles, from Geralt to Eredin Breacc Glas (one of the villains) to do what they believe the right thing is, and not without reason. Geralt, through making his judgments, tries to do what is best in all cases, and sometimes, circumstances he cannot control turn his actions into something with a bad result, but the alternative would've been being evil himself. Same goes for one of the villains, whose entire motivation (in the books) is to save his people, which requires something sketchy to happen. It is morally grey but also a lesson in using our conscience to the best of our ability, and steeling our wills to make the hard choices. I couldn't get into Martin's work because his prose is garbage.
My problem with Martin's books is that there are characters who are absolute evil, absolute worst of the worst. But there is not a character who is the complete opposite, except for maybe Ned Stark, who gets killed. This is also symbolized by the White Walkers who are a pure evil force of nature, but there is (as of yet in the books at least, in the show not at all) no opposite force, like a god for example. It just spreads this kind of pessimism of the modern age that there is no true good and that everything is subjective and pointless, our race as a whole is evil etc. That's why I will always prefer Tolkien. Interesting insights from Mike though!
I agree with your take. I find it odd that some people hold up GoT as a more realistic world than LotR, namely for being more "morally grey" than LotR, but I have found that this doesn't reflect the real world at all: there are good people in real life. From what I know of GoT, everyone is just on a scale from evil to less bad, not from evil to good.
Watched an interview by Babylon Bee of a Tolkien scholar. The scholar said he understands some of the problems with Rings of Power cause Amazon don't own the rights to the Silmarillion and therefore can't reference anything in it.
Yes, take away the references to Tolkien’s work, and this show bombs. Ironically, though, because it references Tolkien’s work, it somehow makes it even worse for me.
Martin didn't turn Tolkien on his head because in order to do that he'd first need to understand Tolkien's vision. And that he doesn't at all. For example, he completely misinterprets the ending of LotR as being a cliched 'happy end', when it's actually a very bittersweet one. Also, Tolkien was a Platonist only in as much as Platonism is a part of the Roman Catholic tradition.
When someone explains to me in details how one can tank a fiery volcanic eruption straight in the face and survive it with no burns, only then I will take this show seriously. And don't tell me it's because she's an elf or it's just a fantasy show! That's just lazy writing there. ROP is a dumpster fire!🔥 Good riddance
Boobs actually exist in this world, and have many functions, physical and psychologically ones. And is not like they don't exist if you don't read about them or look to them. And I don't think a Christian person must avoid the variety of this world, to not learn about it. Reading about things that now are considered taboo/sexualized (they were not always considered like that, some people even now don't consider them like that) won't turn someone into a sex crazed person. I have never really understood why religion have a phobia about sex or the human body, they are part of this world, a very important one. I suppose is about control, to make us ashamed of ourselves, of our own nature. It is one thing to have a faith and another thing to turn it into fanaticism. And yes, the Rings of Power is a dud. It has some thing well done, but are very few to redeem the season.
I enjoyed the show at first. The thin veneer of its CGI landscapes got me. By the end there was only one character I cared about, and not enough to rewatch it.
Hard disagree on the thesis here. It is a fine show though it takes a while to find its footing. The harfoots and the simple beauty of their story is worth the price of admission alone.
@@anni.68 "Her personal ban was lifted in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her." coming from the master himself
Frankly, aside from a little bit of immodesty, and a line I didn’t appreciate ,I enjoyed it. I wouldn’t say it’s a masterpiece; but it was good. Lots of the Music is beautiful, too.
I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. I started watching it with some buddies expecting to make fun of it. But I ended up liking it. As an adaptation of Tolkein's lore, there are problems, but as an adventure story it's fun and even beautiful at times.
I've watched half an episode avoiding it for a while because of all the bad reviews. It is nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out. Apart from the forced sandwiching in of black characters and the female lead (killing the snow troll while her army watch on like fools) it's been a beautifully shot nice start.
Same i was thinking this was gonna be liberals propaganda type show but end up liking it. in fact, I was looking for a reason to hate the show like some political correctness dialogues or something but nothing happened after 3 episode fk it I will give a fair try and end up watching all 8 episodes in 2 days.
The conclusion may be correct, but the video and blog weren't convincing. Could the guest not scream at it? That would help convey the argument. Although loved the focus on characters, since metaphysically the importance of freedom in fiction is vital to our understanding of the nature of creation.
Why bother even discussing the rings of power with somebody who hasn't seen it? They can't imagine how incredibly bad it is on all levels. From the writing to the costumes to the acting etc It has hobbits that are selfish and abandoned each other to die whole families at a time!
Well, I am Polish and I've read "The Witcher" and I assure You, that it is more than the boobs. But You have to realize that Andrzej Sapkowski is not the christian, he is a leftist and anticlerical guy. Nevertheless "The Witcher" is the classical polish fantasy literature with great characters and amazing dialogues. Sadly Netflix adaptation is horrible because it violates the source material. "The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt" is the best adaptation of Sapkowski's work, amazing game. You are lucky that You've never read the alternative history of christianity in "The Inquisitor" series by Jacek Piekara xD
Your thoughts on The Rings of Power?
I thought it was fine. I didn't love it, but didn't hate it either. People who either "love" or "hate" it seem to be putting their biases on full display as far as I can tell.
Garbo
Exhausting watch to say the least
Just what you said. Didn't like it.
Liked Lord of the rings, the books are better. Sad they took a lot out
In the movies. I know it would have
Made a 4th and 5th maybe. But for those of us who liked the books, it would have been all good.
Everything about the Orcs was awesome, I loved them
"Tolkien's universe is one step above ours and Martin's is one step below"
I love this take! Song of Ice and Fire has a lot going for it, buuuuuut yeah, it has its fair share of pornographic sections. Nothing as pointless and "sex position"y as the show, but just as explicit.
@@stevendouglas3781 I agree, Martin was so caught up in trying to be subversive that he wrote himself into a corner, not even he can harvest the seeds he's planted. Now there are weeds everywhere.
Martin's world tries to be "realistic" but fails because there is no grace. In real life, grace and providence abound in the long arc of life.
@@ScottWoltze you could argue he's introducing grace, but yeah, his track record doesn't support that claim as much as fans would like
@@Cklert I honestly still don't think he "wrote" it himself. It reads as a D&D campaign the DM makes "hardcore", and tells everyone to bring multiple characters because they WILL die, it would explain his writers block too as I think one of his players died and he can't deal with it or replace them... That isn't to say he's a weak writer as he would've made the scenario and much of the world building, but trying to invoke or replace a dead friend's thought patterns in a work would be gutting.
Edit: as far as the sex, I agree with the UA-camr, Sex in GRRM's world is generally for shock value, realism(in the sense of "and this is why we take baths/avoid prostitutes Timmy" in other words showing how bad midevil practices were) or the old teenagers in a horror movie trope where the characters tend to die badly.
Never really watched the show though, I refuse to watch until I read the last book or Martin kicks the bucket(though I won't h8 watch it immediately in case of the latter, I just won't watch on principle unless it already happened.)
@@michaellane5381 I think that's a pretty good analogy. Martin's biggest issue is that he creates many intriguing plot threads and hooks but I don't think he actually knows how to stick the landing. So when he does kill someone, it is meaningful, but it's a double edge sword. It effectively means that no one else can possibly carry on what that character was pursuing.
I don't really think he's a bad writer either, for the record. But I do think he leaned a little bit too much in subverting Tolkien High Fantasy, to where he can't exactly figure out how to execute crucial points.
Martin is a "Gardener" type of author, where he lets established things grow slowly which is good for building up rising action just before the climax. The issue is that he doesn't know when to harvest. So he just keeps on planting new things to grab the readers' interest. Hence my weeds analogy.
People who like the show don't understand the problem with the show is THE PHILOSOPHY. It directly bastardizes his work, and even the existence of the show as an "updates" ignores Tolkien's critiques of modernism.
Amen.
F**k off. It's a fantasy story no deeper than that.
You're like the morons who think you need to be intelligent to appreciate Rick and Morty which is basically fart jokes and scatological references.
👏👏👏
"people who like the show" hahahahaha. Bruh we both know they don't exist.
People who like the show are mentally ill
One of the things I can say, from my point of view: the makers of ROP don't know virtue. Tolkien knows a lot about virtue. For example, Galadriel is driven by vengeance and becomes a warrior. Being driven by vengeance is not a virtue, that's why so many people say that ROP's Galadriel is so unlikable (among other virtues that Galadriel lacked). This is just one example among many other examples.
@@anni.68 I don't disagree. Elves aren't saints (sanctity and sin are things that Tolkien knew well, but the makers of ROP had little idea about, that's why the series became so shallow), but some elves, perhaps many, showed great virtues. Aside from hate, a couple of elves had lust on Luthien, aside from other examples of lack of virtue showed by some elves, i just don't remember now. It's the little i know of the works of Tolkien. I'm not a very big fan, but I love his works.
Hilarious that you actually understood what the writers of the show were saying and yet levied this criticism against them. Galadriel's quest for vengeance leads to the horror of Mount Doom's eruption and the rise of Sauron. Is that not them saying that vengeance leads one to hell?
@@5quepasa How? The eruption would have happened anyway, she had nothing to with it... She brought Sauron to Mordor, true, but the eruption was Adar's work and would have happened anyway.
Honestly, IMO Martin does not turn Tolkien's philosophy on its head. Martins's story is just another Post Modern monarchy is bad story that will not last the test of time. LOTR will last forever because it speaks to the human spirit! (Similar to the illyaid) GOT will be forgotten in a few years. Also, there are Pronagrafic scenes in the book that describe details that are so unnecessary.
@Pixelated Apollo I've been subbed to your channel for a long time, great to see you here!
PIX APOLLO IS HERE?! Ain’t no way! BASED
Oh my God it’s Pixie, never expected this. I love ur channel and Lord of The Rings, despite the issues with GRRM I still find his books good cause they read like fake history, way to sexually graphic tho
Nice to see you here man
But Martin wrote GoT to be a morally gray universe specifically because he didn't like how morally black and white LotR is.
WOW ! I'm a Tolkien Fanatic , I've read the Silmarillion , The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings literally over 200 X's. I'm 54 & started at 12yrs old. I didnt watch this show because I knew it would be bad but I had no idea it would be that bad. I'm so glad I didnt waste my time.
The reveal of Halbrand as Sauron (to the surprise of no one) made the destruction of Galadriel complete.
In the books she was among the most powerful and wise with the gift of insight to the hearts of others that even Feanor's cannot sway her to give away strands of her hair seeing through his heart.
And RoP pretty much made her a rage filled warrior princess being strung along by the main villain LOL
I’m not much of a Tolkien observer or lorist to know the nuances and differences in the Rings of Power, but after the first episode I thought it was trash.
It gets better, guy, but you have to give it a fair shot
For anyone interested in clean epic fantasy I’d recommend Brandon Sanderson. Stormlight Archive is phenomenal and the finished Mistborn trilogy is amazing
THIS TBH!
100% agree. Sanderson is an amazing writer and an upstanding man.
It's funny trying to tell people about Sanderson because he has so many amazing twists and reveals, leading we fans to be dedicated to the RAFO (Read And Find Out) concept because we don't want to spoil it for anyone. So when we want to explain the books, it's like, "What's it about?" and we have to spend five minutes trying to figure out how to tell them without even small spoilers 😀
@@steelytemplar I think if you said something about how compelling the plots/characters are, how believable/relatable it is, how much humor it has, and how wholesome it is, then that gives us family-friendly-types enough information to at least think about checking them out.
IT IS THE EPIC FANTASY OUR WORLD NEEDS! I love how he intertwines theology into his books, especially the Stormlight Archive.
It was absolutely awful. After the first episode I couldn't watch anymore.
Eh, haven’t watched it. Absolutely refuse to, despite my sheer adoration for Tolkien. I won’t give Amazon an inch. And to think, Netflix now owns the rights to Narnia… God help us.
It’s not of Tolkien so don’t feel bad. It’s a bad mockery at best.
Not watching is a very WISE choice!!
Matt, I have to recommend Brian Jaques's Redwall series. It is great for Children, light yet catholic in substance. Great with your children, and fun too for leisurely reading.
And there's I think 28 books so enough that a kid can be satisfied with just those for a LONG time haha
Oh! My daughter loved them x
I remember reading every Redwall book in my school's library... Really loved them and I still love them. There is also a Redwall recipe book and two Redwall games on Steam: The Lost Legends of Redwall: The Scout Act 1,2 & 3 (which is set in the time of the book Redwall) and The Lost Legends of Redwall: Escape the Gloomee (which is set in the time of the book Mossflower).
Nothing kills the immersion more than hearing modern-sounding language in medieval-looking fantasy shows.
Many modern writers can’t write good dialog in modern language, much less older languages.
Like…. They love doing that and it’s not funny anymore 😢
Saruman and Denathor are Tolkien's examples of what happens when you indulge in a little evil in order to do good. ROP totally misunderstands this and makes this Galadriel's main moral framework. This complete contradiction of Tolkien and the addition of treating Galadriel like shes a rebellious teenage girl (Despite being thousands of years old at the point of this story) made me hard pass on it.
I thought it was so Tolkien that Galadriel’s compromised moral framework, as you put it, is what leads to the rise of Sauron
I love this hahaha.
Glad to hear Galadriel being a warrior is out of character from a dedicated fan. I was shocked when I found out the main blonde elf chick was supposed to be Lady Galadriel. Like really?? I've only seen the LOTR and Hobbit movie trilogies, and Galadriel was always more of an ethereal mage. She's an amazing, gentle, compassionate, yet surprisingly powerful figure!! Why on earth did they put her in armor with a sword like she's Aragorn. They should have at the very least kept her a magic user, or made the protagonist a new elven warrior chick to fill their need for an action protagonist.
Also, "I can't do boobs! I can only do boobs in the right context!" 😂😂
This is like being shocked that Anakin Skywalker in the Phantom Menace is nothing like Vader in the original trilogy. Galadriel will evolve into the character we see in LOTR over a 5 season arc. Her magical powers come from the Ring she wields, which was forged only at the end of this season.
@@JM-19-86No she had magical powers well before the ring, being a student of Melian I think. And no Galadriel was never a warrior, she was an athlete of incredible ability but never partook in the dirtier side of war. By the time the show takes place Galadriel should already be married and have a daughter.
@@jarlwilliam9932 That's the rather incredible problem---that their lame story ideas were considered a good enough excuse to alter one of the few "knowns" in the time period they were choosing to cover. Also they didn't write her to be smart enough to evolve.
Notice that the writers of that last Star Wars trilogy did the same lame thing with Leia -- take a woman of royalty and demote her to general, because that way she oozes with masculine power. It's lame.
@@JM-19-86 Ummm.... no. No they don't. You clearly haven't read The Simarillion. Galadriel's learned magic from Melian, her angelic Aunt in the 1st Age and from the Valar before she left the undying lands. She didn't gain them from her RIng: that's not actually what Rings of Power do... you should know that if you read Tolkien...
What Michael said about the good people of Westeros like John, Tyrion and the Stark children (reluctantly) taking power, because the alternative is the insane and the corrupt like Ramsay and Cersei taking it, makes so much sense. Never before I heard Martin's work explained that way. Brilliant.
His entusiasm trashing the show and its huge flaws is amazing to watch !!
" I wanna see a shitty person CHOOSE to be good."
Ladies and Gentlemen… go read Shad’s book “Shadow of the Conquerer.” This is literally what he does. Definitely not for kids, but it’s worth a read.
You mean that men’s rights whack job?
It's not even good action. She leads the army (a few hundred?) to battle someone, somewhere, and charge by coincidence into a small village that was overrun despite not knowing its location or that they were under attack. And the claim that orcs were there was all based on some guy she just met out in he ocean. And it's not even her army, its the Numenorians. Then a volcano blows up, which she survived despite taking the pyroclastic cloud head on as it burns everything. It's all very low-key stuff. Small numbers, empty or samey scenes, and bogged down by cringe dialogue.
Someone is either using their head when watching the show, and/or they are listening to Nerdrotic.👍
It's not coincidence - pay attention next time. The small numbers make a lot of sense, both in-universe (it's a time of peace in Middle-Earth) and out (evey season can up the ante with bigger battles).
??
@@JM-19-86 umm, it was coincidence, due to awful writing. They were charging on horseback after leaving the ships and happened upon the very place Adar and his orcs were attacking (which was a group of people from all over the Southlands, not that one place). They were motivated by the claim of a stranger (Halbrand) who they believe was heir because of something he carried, despite the line being dead for a 1000 years, which Galadriel eventually discovered after actually fetching some info on the throne there. She also met Halbrand on a raft in he middle of the ocean after she jumped off her own with the intention to swim back to Middle Earth. Coincidence was heavily used in the series to avoid the harder creative plotting so characters could get from point a to point b. It was a terrible show on almost every front.
Amazon: False, tricksy.
I believe George Martin said he writes his characters under the belief that each individual has the capacity for absolute evil and absolute good. Some characters you hate in GoT end up changing and becoming good, other bad characters stay bad, some good characters turn and become bad. He emphasized the potential of the individual to affect their surroundings in different ways
One episode was enough to show me how much of a horrible program it is. Rings of Power is a bastardization, a mongrelization of what Professor Tolkien created; there are no words at all I can say to express how much Ioathe it.
I don't think Game of Thrones is an inversion of Tolkien's philosophy but a deconstruction-reconstruction of it. Just like how the Ring scourged Frodo down to his soul, Eddard Stark's honour got him killed but the Northmen are braving the cold winter and starvation for "Ned's girl". All the while the rotten legacy of Tywin Lannister is on its last leg.
Just a quick FYI: The land with the name that begins with "F" is "Forodwaith".
I doubt many Catholics who watch Matt’s content give a care about pop-culture. It’s unfortunate because such ignorance leaves that monster of influence unchecked. Catholics could make pop-culture so much better, like Tolkien did in his time, but too many of us are checked out.
This is an amazing point!
Evil left unchecked is incredibly dangerous and while I understand pop culture apathy but it's leaving the devil to play in the playground on his own and when it comes to pop culture its a huge danger to our children and the future generations.
Catholic become with popculture when catholic becomes popular again
A Trad Catholic who understands the influence of pop-culture is OMB Reviews.
Completely agree. We need more Catholics in the arts
Pop-culture is trash. It does not need to be made better, it needs to evaporate.
Matt - If you want good, deep, and moral fantasy, read Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn or Stormlight Archives series. They are among the greatest works of epic fantasy ever written and Sanderson is a very upstanding man.
"Life before death,
Strength before weakness,
Journey before destination." - The First Ideal of the Knights Radiant
YES.
Thanks for the tip, I'll check that out.
Except that by the third book in the Stormlight Archives, Brandon sadly begins to throw lgbt ideology into the mix... It's so pointless that you could remove those sections and it wouldn't affect the story line. I was quite disappointed that he chose to alienate a large section of his followers.
@Jacob Murphy No one said that Sanderson's writings are ready for an imprimatur.
Also, there is a vast difference between having small inclusions of LGBT characters and making them a major focus. The difference between what is in Sanderson's writing and what we get in what one might call "woke" shows is pretty vast.
In the end, everyone will have their own opinions on what is comfortable. Being someone who seeks to live according to the teachings of the Catholic Church with no attempts to bend them to something different, I neither find a reason to stop reading Sanderson nor to hesitate in recommending him to other Catholics.
The ideas in these stories which fit with the Catholic worldview far outweigh those which are at odds with it.
@Steely LMAO the need to include an imprimatur! I think I get what you mean though. We shouldn't dehumanize anyone just because they are in a state of mortal sin.
To the host, I truly think you should find an hour to watch Dr. Ralph Wood give his speech on Tolkien and Catholicism. There are plenty versions on YT here and the one at Aquinas College is available :)
I’d also highly recommend you give LOTR a shot as a read. Considering you are Catholic, Tolkien’s attempt to create his own myth was heavily influenced by his own spiritual and religious beliefs, and his story is absolutely full of allusions, metaphors, and symbolisms of his faith. It’s something that I believe will truly complement and supplement your faith, as well as give you a first step into the beautiful world and stories the Professor created.
Second, I love how Michael gets riled up just at correcting the title lol. It was then I knew his review and critiques would be on point. He articulates very well how most Tolkien fans felt. Thanks for hosting him. First time seeing you both.
Cheers, and may the Blessings of Elves, Men, and Free Folk go with you!
I thought his criticisms sounded like nonsense from the off. Speaks to little education on the nature of stories.
@@5quepasa I didn’t
Tolkien identified a fundamental problem with even _trying_ to make Elves the point-of-view characters of a novel-type narrative (and not a legend):
"In _narrative_ , as soon as the matter becomes 'storial' and not mythical, being in fact _human_ literature, the centre of interest _must_ shift to Men (and their relations with Elves or other creatures). We cannot write stories _about_ Elves, whom we do not know inwardly; and when we try we simply turn Elves into Men." - _Letters_ , 212
And sure enough, the Elves of TRoP are nothing more than Men (or Humans if you like) with pointy ears. Literally: Sauron/Halbrand cannot identify Galadriel as an Elf until he looks at her ears. And they will continue net season by making Sauron just some guy with identifiable human motives and problems.
But even if Rings of Power were a wholly original production with all the Tolkien serial numbers (and names) filed off, it would be a train wreck. The elf-lady who jumps ship would still have to cross an ocean. The people on that island would still be living in an isolation that defies explanation. The whole 'magical metal' plot line would still make no sense at all (hint: if you send a spy to find a magical metal, let him know what he's looking for). The Stranger plot would still serve no purpose in this season. The times and distances would still make no sense at any point. You would still have people happily living through a volcanic fireball.
It's just not good drama, unless you think that pretty photography and a stirring score are sufficient for good drama.
Tolkien's wrote multiple versions of Galadriel as his concept of her changed greatly over time. Most of us just know one or maybe two. For example, he wrote the following:
“Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Fëanor maybe […] Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth.
"Galadriel was a Sindarin name given to (and accepted by) her after her coming to Beleriand, meaning 'lady of the golden crown' or 'coronal', referring to the braids of her golden hair (braided high)." "She was then of amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
Tolkien created (or sub-created as he would say) such a ridiculous scope of material for Lord of the Rings and the thousands of years of legendarium surrounding it...and he was constantly rethinking and revising right up until his death...Even after spending extensive time studying LOTR, the Silmarillion, etc, I have been forced to realize how little most of us know about the breadth of what Tolkien wrote, much less, additional versions as he continually revised and retconned .
Highly recommend Corey Olsen for a scholarly approach to Tolkien and Tolkien adaptations, for example:
"The Metahistory of Galdriel"
ua-cam.com/video/Z8w2dCw2izM/v-deo.html
Galadriel was born in Valinor during the Age of the Trees. The quotes you give are about her when she was young. In several letters Tolkien talked about Galadriel "when she was young" and it is clear that this was in Valinor. By the beginning of the 2nd Age Galadriel was about 2000 years old, married to Celeborn and a mother. She was not young, brash, angry or a warrior princess. Olsen supports ROP and my opinion of him has taken a big hit.
@0.09 that sigh of "Oh, here we go"
I love how passionate this guest gets about the books he holds dear.
Excellent point about Martin turning Tolkien in his head. In Tolkien, the honorable guy succeeds. In Martin, the honorable guy gets stabbed in the back every turn. And the only way the honorable guy survives is to start doing some dishonorable things.
The Wticher is great actually. So much stuff in it. Of course, it is kinda naturalistic at times, but great story really.
I must disagree. The Last Wish and Blood of Elves are alright, but apart from that, Andrej Sapkowski is just not a good writer. And the proof of this is that his most famous 'creation', Geralt of Rivia, is just another Elric rip-off. In fact outside of Batman, the Witcher is probably one of the most blatant acts of plagiarism ever perpetrated.
@@skywolfc2040 I don´t know Elric so I can´t comment, but why does everything have to be plagiarism? Can´t it just be inspiration? A character like this is certainly not all that unique, jut look at the middle ages. And I am not saying Sapkowski is the best writer ever, but there are far worse books out there.
What he doesn't say and is very important is that they are not only in the middle of the ocean going west but that they are refugees from Middlearth. Even if they were halfway between Middlearth and Numenor instead of between Numenor and Valinor, which is not suggested to be fair, their immigration to Valinor wouldn't make any sense lorewise...It would be harder than getting from Mexico to US on a formal level coupled with a fact that they wouldn't know how to bavigate there and would need a very good ship and a captain.. and even the best one human from Middlearth would reject the plan as insane... there js so many things wrong with that show not only lorewise
The Ring of Power is so horrendously terrible, I watched it through the entire first season just to see how low it could go. It didn't fail to deliver. I have read LOTR and The Hobbit, but not Tolkien's other works (yet), but just from the standpoint of a viewer the writing in ROP is an epic failure. The dialogue, which is obviously meant to sound lofty and poetic, instead comes across like a middle schooler's attempt at writing high fantasy. And don't get me started on the writers' sense -- or lack thereof -- of timing and geography. On the plus side, great visuals, (mostly) very good acting, decent soundtrack; on the negative, everything else.
i wrote fan fiction for LOTR as a young man, and could not bring myself to watch 1 second of the show... that should tell the producers all they need to know about their target audience
Sounds like you watched some UA-cam videos and let them form your opinion. That’s kind of pathetic
For good fantasy without sexual content except for one line in the final book where it's implied a married couple has sex, I seriously recommend the Queen's Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner. Easily my favorite series!
Michael's takes were great. More videos like this please haha
My thoughts exactly! The whole swimming-thing sounds dumb, at least within the context of Tolkien's LOTR Universe, but to be fair... when SILVERS RAYLEIGH does it in OnePiece, it's totally badass and hype as all F#$k. If you don't know, OnePiece is a shonen-anime that takes place in a fictional world composed almost entirely of oceans and islands, ruled by a global regime known very straightforwardly as the World-Government, and is chock-full of superpowered pirates, sea-monsters, giants, fish-people, friggin cyborgs, the list goes on. Anyway, there's this area of ocean known as the Calm-Belt, which is so-named because there's basically zero weather, no wind or ocean currents at all, thus it's basically impossible to sail through, and worse, it's the breeding-ground for millions of gigantic sea-monsters, so if you enter the Calm-Belt, you're basically SharkZilla-food... Unless of course, you happen to be an ABSOLUTE BOSS, which Silvers Rayleigh most definitely is. Rayleigh is so badass, that when he goes swimming, the sea-monsters all swim away in pants-crapping fear of HIM! And rightfully so!🤯
Side-Note: OnePiece is over ONE THOUSAND episodes long, and it's STILL GOING.
An assistant priest at one of our local parishes was an avid watcher of Game of Thrones and he declared it at Mass one day- it didn't sit right with me.
I agree with Matt- it is pornographic, I have seen a glimpse of it and I can't watch it as, for me, it constitutes the near occasion of sin.
In a world with so many wonderful books/plays/shows/films…we can skip this one 👍
The idea that people should do evil for the sake of good - no matter how much good - is wholly in opposition to Catholic teaching.
By far the best part is that he couldn't even comprehend that she would try to swim back. It's just so ludicrous.
Anyone wanting any shape shifter urban fantasy with Christian undertones ought to check out Ancient Enemies by a dude named Thomas Fisher. Its a little slow at the start, but that changes! Some of the best action I've ever come across! There's this one part in the last battle where I actually cheered out loud, I forgot I was in a crowded room!
Matt, if you're looking for high quality "candy" fiction that isn't smutty, check out Brandon Sanderson's "Mistborn" trilogy. Excellent fantasy using the "mystery box" approach to storytelling, but in a way that is actually satisfying.
6:10 There is a censored version of Game of Thrones available out there. Some episodes have five minutes or more cut out; others only a few seconds or nothing.
Game of Thrones is Machiavellian in the way that LOTR is Platonic.
I will say there are certainly some scenes in Ice and Fire that could have been written differently to keep the sexual content less explicit, but I generally agree with the guest. Tolkien is great, possibly the greatest literary figure of the 20th Century, and Ice and Fire is not at the same level, but that does not mean it is not worth a read. Now, people should definitely know themselves and what they can handle, as it is brutal and violent and at times explicit, but there are many brutal and violent and explicit scenes in literature. I tend to agree that Martin does not have a Christian worldview, but he certainly understands people very well. Many of the subplots in his books follow the style of Greek tragedies (many of which were also brutal and even sexually explicit at times), where the characters are flawed and these flaws lead to a crucible, where they either emerge renewed and changed or are destroyed.
TROP is the kind of show you expect to get from first time showrunners, who continue to say they respect the lore but don't. When Peter Jackson decided to make the Lord of the Rings everyone in a high level position on the film crew had read the books over and over and loved and respected Tolkien's work. They were always mindful of the thematic content and didn't put any of their baggage into the movies because they loved the mythology as Tolkien wrote it. J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay are NOT fans of Tolkien's work and it shows everywhere throughout this billion dollar dumpster fire. Their intent was to do the exact opposite of what Jackson did. No one in a high level position on this show is a dedicated fan of Middle Earth. The few true experts they hired like Tom Shippey were fired for disagreeing with Payne and McKay and what they were doing to the mythology. They have not respected the thematic material, canon or lore in fact, they have completely disrespected it. The unmitigated gaul of these two amateurs believing THEY know better than Tolkien how to write the second age of Middle Earth have produced a show that is bad across the board. Bad directing, editing, pacing, storytelling, acting, dialogue and generally all aspects of cinema except the CGI, and a billion dollars worth of that SHOULD be decent. If this story had nothing to do with Tolkien it would still SUCK! That they, in their infinite lack of wisdom, decided to dump ALL their PC and Woke baggage into the singularly greatest work of fantasy fiction of all time shows just how clueless they are. They wanted their story to reflect the world we live in today. Just one problem with that boys and girls, no one reads or watches fantasy fiction to be reminded of the world they live in. In fact, it is loved because it provides an ESCAPE from the world we live in today! Middle Earth is a fictional account of an English/Northern European pre-history. There were no black elves, black dwarf women without beards, black Harfoots/Hobbits or black or asian humans because those races did not live in this English/Northern European geographic location! Diversity has to make sense within the story parameters. The showrunners are total "Bad Reboot" untalented, uninspired and unsuccessful Hollywood hacks! The season ending "big reveals were laughable. Everyone knew Meteor Man was Gandalf even though he wasn't due to appear in Middle Earth for another thousand years or so. Everyone knew Halbrand was Sauron from the moment he appeared on screen. Warrior "Guyladriel" did not exist.....ever. Tolkien's Galadriel was so much more powerful than TROP's Guyladriel because she used her intellect and sorceress powers of persuasion to get what she needed. What she didn't need was to be a sword wielding, "Mary Sue/Karen", Zena warrior princess! Bezos must certainly be feeling buyers remorse for having hired Jar Jar Abrams incompetent production team. A billion dollars for a show that could have been great but for the clown car of talentless hacks that were put in charge of it. I hope the other 4 seasons get cancelled before the next 2 years pass. Let this abomination pass into history with all the fanfare accorded an unmarked grave. That's all it deserves. RIP TROP....you suck!
“I can’t do porn”
Never heard of this guy before, but I’m on board. Smashed subscribe big time.
The thing is the philosophy of this people is just that, things happen to people and that's what defines them, the role of their autonomy is always superceded by their race, sex, etc.
“So I look forward to not reading this ever.” 😂 same. Explicit is explicit, regardless of “context.” Nope. Not going there. Implied, ok, but not explicit. It hurts too much.
Why? I'm asking seriously, not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Cause I don't see many objections to depicting murder or theft, for example, so why is sex so utterly unacceptable?
@@lemmypop1300 because the watching of that includes me in the sin. Read the Ten Commandments and Jesus's expanding definition about the thought life and sin.
@@lemmypop1300 I don't watch graphic murder scenes either.
Love this review. I read the trilogy of the lord of the rings as well as the hobbit and really enjoyed them.
Obviously the destruction of the world of LOTR is an insult, but what never ceases to blow my mind is how these people who get put in charge of writing billion dollar stories have absolutely no idea how to actually write a story. They don't understand the very basics of what makes a good character or narrative. And it makes perfect sense when you see that these people almost never have any writing credits to their name. I don't know how they get in charge of these things. There are millions of random people who are fans of these things who actually have read books and know how stories work but none of them are ever put in charge of this stuff. Its always some random person with no talent but apparently the right connections.
THANK YOU!!! Horrible, horrible Rings of Power. I am a huge Tolkien fan and would have really enjoyed more stories to watch, but you nailed it, Rings of Power is not character driven, misses the point of good story telling, and it was not informed by the virtues and beauty of Tolkien's themes and philosophy, at least I never saw it in the few episodes I watched. I would love a Lotr story, but this was choppy, the characters most of them unlikable or dead before I could like them and just painful to watch. The cinematography was beautiful, but the wonder and drama seemed hollowed out by the frenetic storytelling to the point I was irritated and groaning. I felt like I was grabbed by the collar and dragged through episodes and I kept going, wait, who was that? What was their purpose; oh their dead, oh well. I had thought to you know endure through it and watch them all, trying to give it a chance, but I forgot about it and went, oh yeah I never finished it. Sad, I am not sure Hollywood has the heart, mind or understanding to create wonder and beauty, transcendent truth or reflect pure love and nobility. Oh and I watched the first season and a half of Game of Thrones series because a friend of mine liked them and wanted to watch them with me, and I am still trying to erase the images from my brain, ewwww. wow some really not beautiful people naked way too much, and a lot of just dark, dark, darkness. I got to the point in Game of Thrones, I kind of hoped they would all die. Yikes. Nope, I think I will stick with Lotr because nobility and self-sacrifice is wonderous and uplifting.
When we say the Father is God, the Som is God, and the Spirit is God. Is ‘is’ a statement of identity or predication?
they’ll look at click away stats and stuff for this video but just remember we don’t click away always bc we don’t disagree but bc this stuff is so commonplace nowadays. i totally agree with this dude but i’m also exhausted on hearing it. i just wish they’d quit making the trash no one wants to see
Did Matt paint his studio a different color? I like it! Less garish!
Also, ROP is dumpster fire and cheep. Tolkien is rolling in his grave
What do you think about the cancelation of the Latin mass at Franciscan University, Steubenville, OH?
It was terrible. I only continued to watch it in order to debate with friends of mine who shockingly were trying to defend it.
I found the easiest way to get up to speed on GoT and not watch the sex stuff, was to watch clips on UA-cam. You get the best bits, and piece it all together as you go.
Check out council of the rings channel. He is making a script of how rings of power should have been. He’s got two episodes. It’s kind of like hearing a table read with great artwork displayed while you listen.
Re: ASoIaF, I don't think it's necessarily nihilist because there are glimpses of virtue in some characters, and Martin is a self-described capital R Romantic, what I think he does, and he may not do well because it's not conveyed or seen by most people, it's that to be virtuous is a struggle in a world vicious like his is. But it's still good to be virtuous because the virtuous characters are still vindicated, or proven right.
That's yet to be seen.. since he HASN'T FINISHED THE BOOKS!!!!
@@flappyturtlesnatch I don’t think he ever will lmao
@@fcatulo Right! Him and Rothfuss are the reason I don't start series that aren't finished
I've read Game of Thrones. I enjoyed it, but I also found myself skipping over certain bits.
A good book series if you want just something fun that is clean is The staff and the sword by Patrick w. Carr. Also another series by Patrick Carr is The dark water saga. They are good reads. Nothing deep just clean fun.
It's pretty awful. A lot of conservative commentators try to categorize it as a woke mockery of Tolkien's world. Compared to most things nowadays it's not really that woke. But it's just awful writing and a plot that moves slower than molasses for 2/3 of the season and then rapidly charges forward with several head scratching moments the last couple episodes. It's cheap fan baiting and they recycle lines and visuals from the movie trilogy in addition to trying to make up "Tolkien-sounding" dialogue that's just plain bad and cringey. The whole world feels small. It looks expensive yet cheap at the same time. It relies on cheap mystery plot lines to keep you watching. I could go on and on. It's just bad.
My biggest issue was the plot. They tried to put too much into each episode and they made it feel like the whole world was only 20 square miles
I think it is woke in the sense that it has an artificial feel, and the writers seem unfamiliar with the basic theses of Tolkien. So wokism in the sense that it is crass and Materialist without any transcendence that's not artificial.
@@Jim-Mc I'd say this is less wokeness, which to me represents an intentional subversion of a trope in order to pander to an "oppressed" group.
In the case of ROP, it's just seems like ignorance and lack of skill to me. And definitely what you mentioned with materialism and artificiality. But I'd argue that's more of the byproduct of our culture of the last 50-60 years than an intentional sabotage. If you listen to interviews with the show runners, they truly THINK they are "doing Tolkien." But they fall waaay short of the mark.
you could throw those same accusations at LOTR.
@@troycambo Public review suggests otherwise though. You have to admit that something falls short in RoP that did not fall short in LotR.
Hearing someone compare Martin's writing with Tolkien is painfully cringey
I didn’t like the portrayal of super hero style women whilst the men are either weak, bad or lame.. is just the eternal fight with these people to stop projecting their woke values on the past, similar to what they did to persuasion. Thankfully both projects got some deserved feedback
While I am completely on board with the idea of Rings of Power being bad, I will admit that I do enjoy the Witcher franchise. Sure, Sapkowski is gratuitous in some areas, but the key feature of the books for me is the struggle to do good in a world full of evil. Everyone struggles, from Geralt to Eredin Breacc Glas (one of the villains) to do what they believe the right thing is, and not without reason. Geralt, through making his judgments, tries to do what is best in all cases, and sometimes, circumstances he cannot control turn his actions into something with a bad result, but the alternative would've been being evil himself. Same goes for one of the villains, whose entire motivation (in the books) is to save his people, which requires something sketchy to happen. It is morally grey but also a lesson in using our conscience to the best of our ability, and steeling our wills to make the hard choices.
I couldn't get into Martin's work because his prose is garbage.
Man, this is so cathartic. He just embodies my whole perspective on this atrocity.
Even my cousin said, "Why the heck does Galadriel have a swors and crazy armor?!!!" 😂
2:06 And what if the original generals _were_ precisely royalty?
Yes read a Song of Ice and Fire as long as you're okay with a story that is forever 5/7 complete
this is not the Michael Jones I was thinking of
Wholesome fun reading: Agatha Christie’s mysteries and Dorothy Sayers “Lord Wimsey” mystery series.
It DOES suck!!!
But, the real question is, why does a rock look down?
I still wanna know 😂, purely metaphysically.
Wonderful rave by Michael 🙂
My problem with Martin's books is that there are characters who are absolute evil, absolute worst of the worst. But there is not a character who is the complete opposite, except for maybe Ned Stark, who gets killed.
This is also symbolized by the White Walkers who are a pure evil force of nature, but there is (as of yet in the books at least, in the show not at all) no opposite force, like a god for example.
It just spreads this kind of pessimism of the modern age that there is no true good and that everything is subjective and pointless, our race as a whole is evil etc.
That's why I will always prefer Tolkien. Interesting insights from Mike though!
I agree with your take. I find it odd that some people hold up GoT as a more realistic world than LotR, namely for being more "morally grey" than LotR, but I have found that this doesn't reflect the real world at all: there are good people in real life. From what I know of GoT, everyone is just on a scale from evil to less bad, not from evil to good.
@@andivon8886 exactly! But I realise that it is (unfortunately) very much in the spirit of the modern world... Moral subjectivism, apathy, depression
Watched an interview by Babylon Bee of a Tolkien scholar. The scholar said he understands some of the problems with Rings of Power cause Amazon don't own the rights to the Silmarillion and therefore can't reference anything in it.
that's no excuse for the quality of the actual writing. put any other skin on it, and it's an awful script.
"Tolkien scholar" FFS
Yes, take away the references to Tolkien’s work, and this show bombs. Ironically, though, because it references Tolkien’s work, it somehow makes it even worse for me.
@@sharptakes1662 no it's not an excuse for the overall bad quality, but it can partially explain part of the problem.
@sharptakes1662 Yup. The dialogue alone makes it a hilariously bad self parody.
Try reading book of the new sun by gene wolfe. He’s a catholic and might be the best sci-fi writer ever
Rings of Power is garbage.
Martin didn't turn Tolkien on his head because in order to do that he'd first need to understand Tolkien's vision. And that he doesn't at all. For example, he completely misinterprets the ending of LotR as being a cliched 'happy end', when it's actually a very bittersweet one.
Also, Tolkien was a Platonist only in as much as Platonism is a part of the Roman Catholic tradition.
Love "Inspiring Philosophy" ! 😎
When someone explains to me in details how one can tank a fiery volcanic eruption straight in the face and survive it with no burns, only then I will take this show seriously. And don't tell me it's because she's an elf or it's just a fantasy show! That's just lazy writing there.
ROP is a dumpster fire!🔥
Good riddance
Boobs actually exist in this world, and have many functions, physical and psychologically ones. And is not like they don't exist if you don't read about them or look to them.
And I don't think a Christian person must avoid the variety of this world, to not learn about it. Reading about things that now are considered taboo/sexualized (they were not always considered like that, some people even now don't consider them like that) won't turn someone into a sex crazed person.
I have never really understood why religion have a phobia about sex or the human body, they are part of this world, a very important one. I suppose is about control, to make us ashamed of ourselves, of our own nature. It is one thing to have a faith and another thing to turn it into fanaticism.
And yes, the Rings of Power is a dud. It has some thing well done, but are very few to redeem the season.
I enjoyed the show at first. The thin veneer of its CGI landscapes got me. By the end there was only one character I cared about, and not enough to rewatch it.
Besides the butchering of Tolkien philosophy, THE VISUALS OF RINGS OF POWER ARE AWFUL! Peter Jackson nailed bringing the characters to life!
Hard disagree on the thesis here. It is a fine show though it takes a while to find its footing. The harfoots and the simple beauty of their story is worth the price of admission alone.
I read the title of this video in Matt's voice lol
Best candy fiction: Undying Mercenaries
Galadriel's clan is banished from Valinor at that time, she's not even supposed to be sent there...
@@anni.68 "Her personal ban was lifted in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her." coming from the master himself
@@anni.68 Yo, can we agree the way they played that in the show was stupid?
Misspelled "is awwwwwesome!"
All they had to do was follow the sauce material, how hard can it be?
Frankly, aside from a little bit of immodesty, and a line I didn’t appreciate ,I enjoyed it. I wouldn’t say it’s a masterpiece; but it was good. Lots of the Music is beautiful, too.
I actually enjoyed it quite a bit.
I started watching it with some buddies expecting to make fun of it. But I ended up liking it. As an adaptation of Tolkein's lore, there are problems, but as an adventure story it's fun and even beautiful at times.
I've watched half an episode avoiding it for a while because of all the bad reviews.
It is nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out. Apart from the forced sandwiching in of black characters and the female lead (killing the snow troll while her army watch on like fools) it's been a beautifully shot nice start.
Same i was thinking this was gonna be liberals propaganda type show but end up liking it. in fact, I was looking for a reason to hate the show like some political correctness dialogues or something but nothing happened after 3 episode fk it I will give a fair try and end up watching all 8 episodes in 2 days.
When one's worldview is broken, one's worlds will be too.
There's actually 7 Durins. Same but different
And never at the same time.
The conclusion may be correct, but the video and blog weren't convincing. Could the guest not scream at it? That would help convey the argument. Although loved the focus on characters, since metaphysically the importance of freedom in fiction is vital to our understanding of the nature of creation.
Why bother even discussing the rings of power with somebody who hasn't seen it? They can't imagine how incredibly bad it is on all levels. From the writing to the costumes to the acting etc
It has hobbits that are selfish and abandoned each other to die whole families at a time!
Thursday, please clip “Boob City” out of context. Thank you.
I have the same anger juat thinking on the stupidity that RoP
Well, I am Polish and I've read "The Witcher" and I assure You, that it is more than the boobs. But You have to realize that Andrzej Sapkowski is not the christian, he is a leftist and anticlerical guy. Nevertheless "The Witcher" is the classical polish fantasy literature with great characters and amazing dialogues. Sadly Netflix adaptation is horrible because it violates the source material. "The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt" is the best adaptation of Sapkowski's work, amazing game.
You are lucky that You've never read the alternative history of christianity in "The Inquisitor" series by Jacek Piekara xD