600cc vs 1000cc on Track: The Differences & Which is Best?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 бер 2018
- 600cc vs 1000cc - Which one should you pick for the track? For more advice and to pick up your FREE track riding Ebook, head here…
lifeatlean.com/free-guide-ess...
============================
Riders comparing 600cc vs 1000cc motorcycles has been going on for decades. In this video we take a look at the major differences on the track and discuss the differences I noticed when moving up to a newer, more powerful machine.
============================
Make sure not to miss a single video from Life at Lean! Click here to Subscribe:
/ @lifeatlean
============================
Find more of Dan here:
Website: lifeatlean.com
Facebook: / lifeatlean
Twitter: / lifeatlean
============================
I went from a Kawi liter bike to a Honda 600rr after I wrecked my Kawi (on the street, of course). I was in my mid-seventies, and decided a 600 might be easier on the old bod. What I found was that I had to ride better on the smaller bike -- faster in turns -- because I couldn't just twist the throttle on the big bike and catch up with other riders on the straights. Did my last track day at the age of 78, and still ride the 600 in the hills of northern California almost every weekend.
OG
The GOAT
respect my man, respect
Hope I still have all my marbles to be able to keep riding when I get to that age!
Sir, you sound bad ass.
I believe that one of the most important human factors when riding is fear. The most dangerous is ego. Fear keeps you safe by instilling respect in most cases. Ego gets you hurt or worse.
I think fear also causes accidents, too much fear I mean.
well said man
Well said my friend u seem lk a experience rider ..stay safe
@@jerryrivera7704 well, im 50 now and started learning to ride at 8. My moms friend was a dirt bike racer and he thought me that fear is necessary. Not only for riding but life. 😎🏍💨👍
So true
For me my best ever all round Track Bike was a GSXR750. I have owned many 1000cc and currently run an MV F3 800 on track but the GSXR750 still takes a lot of beating.
Coming from a zx6r to a Cbr1100xx, i guess something in the middle like a gsxr750 would give the best track performance. 150 hp for a 750 is insane, Even by todays standard.
Yep Gixxer fer sure..... Ive got both 99 750 srad ,, Close to origianal looks, But with mods.. + I have a 05 Cbr 1000 rr, Pipe PC KnN Gixxers a blessing on d twistys .... CBR ,,,, Cant use the extra HP ,,, Wants to launch into the tree tops Scarey
This is the best explanation of the on track difference between liter bikes and 600s. Great vid.
One drunken night at the Nurburgring a few of us got into a conversation of what would be a good bike to not only ride there but what would break the Bridge to Gantry lap record. A 600 superport bike was mentioned (Ok not road legal, which the need to be to do the touristfahn sessions, but it was a suggestion). So when we got home my best mate suggested we use his crashed Suzuki GSXR600 to build a bike to try and set a good lap time. A few more chats with numerous suppliers and a magazine to see if they wanted to print the project and its progress later and the project started. The key was chassis and weight loss more than engine tuning, So a set of larger GSXR750 throttle bodies (from a breakers) and a set of cams from Kent cams and that was as deep as we went into the motor. Durbahn in Germany helped with some carbon weight loss and Bitubo helped with the suspension. The bike was built and as much weight loss as possible was done then the bike was set up at Mallory Park by my best mate and my good friend Luke Stapleford. The bike was about to go to Germany and we just found the MV Agusta 312 had set a new Lap record with Andy Carlisle riding the 312. He was the guy I had lined up to ride the 600 too... After a long conversation with him he felt the 600 would not get close as the MV Agusta was set up for the Nurburgring and carried corner speed higher than the other bikes he had ridden. But the wheels were in motion and Bridgestone had sent 5 sets of tyres to Andy for the article. After a couple of weeks he finally got round to doing a few hot laps... First attempt the video camera had stopped working. The next attempt it worked well enough to show the start and finish of the lap but was a bit dull with shots of the ground or his hand for much of the lap. But it was enough.. The 600 broke the lap record with a 7m 18 second lap. The key was the power was enough to get the speeds needed but not so much torque the bike was trying to spin up and spit you off the bike. It could carry so much corner speed that it was scary. It made the ultimate trackday bike for someone who actually wanted to ride the corners as hard as they dare and not the typical slower trackday throttle twister who wobbles round the corners and drag races on the straights... A good 600 can still lap faster than almost ANY bike at a trackday if you are really trying to improve your riding and want to experience major lean angles and push the grip as hard as you dare. A 600 is a riders bike... A 1000 is for those who are either mega fast on a 600 already or just want to have something that will scare them and not spend hour after hour understanding how to carry corner speed.
Richard Vanags this must have taken a day to write
+Ryan D ...and well worth it. An excellent post with great insight, proven by the poster in this case.
Long read, but worth it was a pleasure really.
Don't believe a 600 can lap faster than almost any bike at a trackday. Because that is the rider, not the bike. Put the same rider on a 1k and he will lap faster.
@@adamutuber if he is competent, experienced, and the track is suitable.
I started track days with a R3 300. After a couple track days I moved up to a GSXR 600 for more straightaway speed. Went faster every session with the 600, but was still intimidated by the power and speed as a newbie. After about 6 months of at least 1 track day every month(I live in Florida), I went back to the 300 to learn how to "ride" faster. I plan on starting to race next season on the 300. I highly recommend a 300 if you're brand new to track riding. Main thing is take it easy, go step by step and ride safe and have fun.
Thank you for your explanation of how it went for you. Ive ridden 600s for decades, both street and track, and my first serious track/race bike was also a 1st gen Yam R6. I loved it for the same reasons you say you loved yours. After some years, and other middleweight bikes (R6, CBR6rr, SV650), i have made the jump to a 3rd gen Kawi ZX10r as a trackbike. I have only ridden it for a weekend on track so far, but i have felt the exact same feelings that you have described. Learning to manage that power is looking to be my biggest challenge. thanks for the video and your thoughts on this adjustment. Since my street bike is a Kawi GTR (basically a ZX14 w/ luggage) i hope that this transition wont take too long.
The important thing for me is , when you go to the track , go as fast as you can within your limits, feel you are like Rossi, Marquez or Stoner. Then you , your mates & your bikes go home in the same condition you went . Happy safe riding to all. 👍
A 1000cc is like you're standing on a crest that gets narrower and narrower and narrower: put down the power as HAAARD as you can, while successfully 1) not lifting the front 2) not drifting the rear tire too much 3) not running wide. This is the most entertaining puzzle I've ever had to work out. I went from R6 (which was amazing) to R1 and I haven't missed the R6 one bit. I don't grit my teeth on the 600 like I do on the 1000. I don't stir restlessly, thinking all work week about my last wicked rip on the R6. I don't get off the R6 shaking my head, mumbling single-word questions to myself. I could wax on and on about how much more satisfying the R1 is to me. There is no contest for me.
600cc sport bikes are rubbish? Lol so many guys on 1000cc bikes get beat by 600cc riders.
@@Adrenalean767 And so many 600's get beat by me on my R3
@@Abyssdiver u didn't beat the bike.u beat the rider
@@Adrenalean767 exactly it does not matter what you are on if you can ride good
@@Abyssdiver sometimes skills ain't enough tho.
I started in a 1000 and have been working my way back ever since. Smaller engines have really forced me to improve my riding!!
125 gearless scooter is the best. Maybe I'm wrong. Not ridden anything else ever.
aditya thakur definitely wrong
Sacky Chin definitely not wrong..try riding 600 or 1000cc sportsbike on a busy day in india,vietnam or indonesia..everything depends on the purpose and place (a 155cc yamaha scooter has a better acceleration kick than 125 though)
the nmax? No thank you. I'll take my Vario 125
aditya thakur Activa wale😜
I waved to a scooter by accident this weekend. those things look hard these days.
Thank you bro for the best video that has ever been made on this topic period !
loved your style and the video as a whole
Happily subscribed :)
My first bike was Honda CBR954RR from 2003. Everyone was saying "it is too big for you, you are going to crash", but I didn't, though I wasn't fastest rider but everyone can jump on a 1000cc or 600cc bike if they know to control themselves. 600 is easier for everyday use and around town, and guess what, you can die even from a scooter with 50cc so don't be afraid to try bigger bikes.
donmlaaden great bike. Own one too. Using vfr 800 for every day use. 954 is only for nice dry weather 😅
I Began on a cbr500r with 47 ph and switch to a zx10r with about 200 ph and i can drive it , so youre right
Yeah honestly a 600 won’t kill you especially In low rpms
Cool. It's true. Just buy what you want and like. Never underestimate and always respect the bike, no matter whatever the bike. Don't be afraid to try, and don't be afraid to switch bikes. Both worlds have ups and downs.
I once had a chat with a local pro-rider, who races on national level tournaments.
I asked basically the same question: what is better for having fun on the track and get to a good level of skills and riding technique?
His reply was something along the lines of: a 600 is going to be the best-most-balanced track weapon one should want to get. 1000cc bikes tend to get riders into bad habits, while 600cc bikes always keep you on point since you don't have the huge power at your fingertips.
He was obviously referring to lines and mid-corner speed.
Kid574 thank you for this intelligent structured comment
Well said from that local racer
Nice side by side comparison. I have just started track days in March with a FX6Shg. So much fun in the corners but a little frustrating on the straights. I plan on staying with my FZ6 for this year....working on basics and getting smooth. Cheers!
I am just getting ready for a track days and kind of getting hooked to watching your channel. Thanks you for sharing!
Sure it depends on the rider but stock or even modified the electronics, suspension tires and overall hardware is better on a 1000
The Muscle Biker thats a big generalisation. A 2018 R6 doesnt have worse gear on it than a 1998 R1.
@@vytas5584 lol 🤡 that's 20 years bro
There exacly the same thing even same weight in some specs or possibly 15 pounds off. A r1 is better then a r6 in every way. The only difference is one a beginer shouldnt ride because to much twisting of the throttle will make it wheelie and if you dont know how to come down from a wheelie your probaly gonna crash. Idk why everyones so confused about this. It hasnt been since the 90s that a cbr 1000 and a cbr 600 100 pounds apart and that could affect how you lean the bike how easy it is. Now a r6 and r1 a cbr600 and a cbr1000 can be the exact same weight with option or max like 20 pounds off.
My 08 cbr600 seemed to have better if not way better hardware than the 954 i had, or tl i had. I was much more comfortable on it too. But i suppose now im looking for a 08 cbr1k so what do you do.
I like a 600 for track days because it made me have to make sure I was doing everything right, using the right gear for the corner, etc. I felt on a litre bike, I could use the torque to cover any mistakes or sloppiness in my riding.
Of course, whichever one, I thought the tires were limiting factor if suspension was properly setup. I would love to see a back to back comparison of 600 vs 1000 on the same tires - I would see more litre bike riders on slicks compared to DOT legal track tires on 600s.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on this topic. Thanks for helping me on the way to choosing my first track bike
Another great vid and further insight into our track-time 👍
I love both!
I ride a 1000cc bike on the track it’s just for pure emotions!
A 600cc is for perfect lines and training just perfec!
Good to have both
AeroR Entertainment 🎥🏍💨🎬
I have a 2012 ZX10r and an 2011 r6. It is great!
so why a 1000cc cant corner?
they can't corner as well as the bike's geometry is set up to be more stable at high speed and more capable of handling more severe weight transfer for acceleration and braking.
it's a trade-off. more stable = less agile.
to say a 1000 "can't corner" is a bit of a stretch - for most street only riders they're essentially the same in that respect, because street riders don't push them that hard. but when being pressed hard on circuit the 600s can be flicked from side to side faster and are set up for more corner speed, as they're not having to deal with as severe braking and acceleration due to the reduced top speed and power output.
both
Yes mate, i have CBR250RR, RGV250, CBR600RR and CBR1000RR in my garage right now. Check my channel for track time on the 600. how about your own experience? Do you actually own both at the same time? Methinks you do not.
First video I’ve seen of your channel. Good review. Keep it up. 👍🏼
Cheers Fox! Will do!
Great vid, as always. Keep up the good work👍
Smart insight! thanks for posting with nice images as a bonus! cheers from canada :)
My thoughts? A well sorted 750!
never owned a 750 and currently ride a 1000 but i think that is a very interesting point to be investigated in a follow up video.... could be a good compromise or a waste of time, I'm not going to pretend to know the answer..
Karl Walters 750 = 0-60 in 3 sec and 125-135mph in 10-10.5
What was pointless?
Meh, I've tracked an Endurance-kitted 750. It's nothing more than a bored out 600.
In the case of the GSX-R 750's it is *literally* what it is, lol. You still have to keep it revving above the "torque bump" and ride it like a 600 with just slightly more power.
Horses for courses. I've grown up racing 250 2's and then on to prod 600. I'm used to revving the hell out of a bike so the lack of mid range isn't such a problem. For me it's about corner speed so a lack of punch in the mid range to drive out is not such an issue. A 750 getting 140 to the rear wheel is all a fast club level rider needs. Any more than that and you're getting into the land of diminishing returns and starting to really to much on rider aids. At our local track the fastest time for a production 600 ( Wayne Maxwell CBR600RR 2009) is 1:32.3 whereas the fastest time for a superbike (Jonathon Rea ZX10RR 2017) was 1:29.6. That's just over 2.5 seconds difference for 50+hp difference and 8 years of technology.
To me, this is track dependent. If it is a long, wide track, a 1000. If it is a tight, technical track, 600. This is my take. Awesome video, Sir!
Howard Roark you are absolutely right
Howard Roark I agree. I just started riding track days on a 2016 gsxr 750 in the USA, but typically it's on club level tracks that are smaller and tighter than U.K. tracks. I really miss my 675r cause even though it would be down on power the way it handles would be much better suited to the tracks I'm riding now...
Agreed. I ride a 96' Ducati 944SS. It is heavily modified, and puts out nearly 82 lbs ft. Since the peak torque also presents itself primarily in the mid-range, I change gears less, and it will leave even new, Japanese bikes behind. In a straightaway, a 600 would smoke me.
This was a great video and explaining. I love riding and look forward to check this channel more!
Your channel is amazing im suprised you dont have more subscribers! Great content man keep up the awesome work!
Cheers Blake. I only started regularly posting videos this year and things are growing nicely so far. The goal really is to just keep putting out useful information and see where we end up!
I've startet on a 07 fireblade which works pretty well for me. It's actually not that difficult to control and has nice handling too. Last week I tried both the new R6 and the new R1 and I have to admitt that the R6 was a lot easier to ride due to a very smooth power delivery and even better handling. So I guess it's still easier to start on a 600 these days.
For me that's the number one attraction of a liter bike. Knowing you can either break traction or bring the nose up with enough throttle. I love getting the rear warm enough to power into a straight while holding the front just inches in the air while trying to lean over the windscreen. Hard to get a higher rush than that...
like ghostrider?
Am looking at getting AR 1 Healtech Module ,, Tame / tune the" Beast "
Nicely put! i went from a 650 to a 1000cc and yes i mostly agree with you..i still scream into corners but as you mentioned the track i take through the corner changed a little to utilize the 155 horses at the rear wheel better...love my sticky tire...trust your rubber lol
My first 6 or 7 years of riding were done on 2-stroke RD250 and RD350's. My first 4 stroke was an '86 FZ600 which I took to the track. I learned that the 4 stroke had a lot more engine braking compared to virtually none on the 2 stroke. However, even with the engine braking if you are not using the real brakes then you are not going fast enough. My pit bike was a 2 stroke YSR 50 that I used to knee drag all over the public roads. I even passed some 600's on my 50. I later had a 2005 Buell XB12 Lightning which I considered the best handling bike I ever rode with all the weight down low on it. Now that I'm older I don't need all that power so I now ride a 1976 RD400. Love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. :)
I think you need to highlight more about the braking and the weight of the bike. Tyre degradation and even Traction control on more modern machines.
The weight difference is clear as you move around on the bike. The gyroscopic -- as Ash Filmer mentioned -- as well as basic momentum, can be felt in quick direction changes. Another 'factor' to consider is the size and weight of the rider! My 225 pounds on a 600cc bike will be much more of a factor in performance than it will on the more powerful 1000cc bike.
Good overall 'comparison' for a person contemplating a purchase. These differences also make a difference on the street.
I often ride with some pretty fast riders { Several of them WERA Racers!} up in the Smoky Mountains! I always ride in the back, because they corner faster than I do...BUT my bike has more mid-range power, and my Exit acceleration speeds usually allow me to 'catch up' on the short 'straights' between curves. On a Track, there is no chance for me, because the straights are longer and they get unto the top of their RPMs/Power Band. [I ride an FZ1 that has been 'tweaked' to about 145rwhp, but my powerband is mid-range power (5,000 to 9,000) although the bike will reach 13,500 for a top end of about 170mph. the supersports blow by on the high-speed sections of the track..]
Floyd Burdett well for myself being over 265lbs I know exactly what your talking about. It takes 1000cc for me to accelerate the same as my friends on 600/750. At the end of the fast roads the extra weight shows in my tires as well.
Being a long time rider 30 years+ and riding many different displacement bikes, I thought your video was done nicely. And yes all sizes give pure enjoyment at different levels. Riding is fun
This video was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!
Well if u put a Rossi on a 600 and a 1000 on a Track, the Winner will be the 1000cc bike but what you do with it is a diferent story.
Another good point
Depends on the track as well
I think Rossi on a KTM Super Duke 1290 R, and on a R1 , the SD 1290 will win.
@@p.chakraborty4453 ya you must be minimum WSBK ready to fight him on random bikes!
@@IBringYouFire 😂
It's not about the feeling of speed, it was about getting passed on every straight. So I replaced the 750 engine with an 1100. Same corner speed. Now I get passed on the straights rarely.
I went from a Seca 550 to an FJ 1000 Yamaha and loved both bikes. In those early years, the differences were much more as you'd expect, although I often thought I could beat a rider on an FJ if I had my Seca again, depending on the track. Maybe I was a little timid with the power curve but I never actually ran it on a track. Keeping the rear locked in on exit was way more of a challenge (I ran soft Metzlers). I actually think that on most tracks the Seca would take the day from the FJ. Of course, both were my transportation and my recreation so I still preferred the FJ for comfort on long rides and keeping the rubber on the road. The Seca 550 was a wake up call and demanded your undivided attention from the start. Between the light weight an the torque (Seca 550 was a 6 speed gearbox) you could rally get tied up in some fancy stuff in the lower gears! For the pure experience of riding I have to say I liked the Seca a little better as I think the components were more up to the task of what the Seca had to offer at the time.I later picked up a Millennium Black wing which was more comparable as a total package. On a track,though I still think the 600's offer more alternatives and a more robust(fully engaged) experience for a non pro rider.
It’s kind of a insane feeling watching this video in May 2022 now that liter bikes are as light as 600’s but pushing out 200+ hp. And yet, all the electronics makes riding the 1000’s way more manageable while 600’s are going extinct. Really enjoyed watching this video and it’s a solid breakdown.
I started on a 99 SV650 about 1 year ago on track days. For me its a matter of comfort zone. I'm staying on the 600's for now...maybe for good. Thanks for the vid.
My pleasure!
Good choice. Smart move. Enjoying the bike is everything...
750: Best of Both Worlds
R7
My zx750. 1995 was the best of both worlds for not crashing pulling out of turns. Fast best paint ever made
That was excellent! I know have a much clearer view of the debate! Thank you!!
Absolutely amazing video. In every way, very well done.
Loved my R6, it was an early 5SL like yours. But I used to close on the litrebikes into corners only for them to disappear on the straights. Frustrating when you can outride them but you can't beat that power. The R6 as you say wasn't necessarily better anywhere, but it was maybe more accessible. Once a litre rider gets used to how and when he can power on though, they will always win.
Simple as that. Because now a days liters bikes can weight just as light as the 600cc bikes. So it's a matter of rider control and understanding of the machine they possess. I know size doesn't always matter. So that's why in thise case size doesn't matter when it comes to handling but it does matter in the outcome of WHO can handle that much size.
I hear yah man ,,, The more twisty the better ... Be smooth and consistant .... getter did!
Don’t whine. Get a liter bike and outride them. Proof is on the track.
-Matt’s dad
600cc Norton Dominator => Triumph 955i triple
Both great in their day & way.
It would have been nice if you shared with us the difference in your lap times going from your 600 to your liter bike
Good debate. Always comes down to the rider, always. Great vid.
Top video, good advice very well said. Good man. Thanks.
Good vid - I think its also important to mention engine orientation has a lot to do with the character of the engine and it is not dependent solely on displacement. For example - an SV650 is the swiss army knife of bikes. It can do it all. It has that 650 twin that really isnt a powerhouse, but has fantastic torque that can keep smiles on your face. Then take an inline 675 triple and you're getting a pretty good compromise of corner exit drive and high revving jet engine redlines. :) Not all 600's and not all 1000's were cut from the same cloth.
Then you can open the same discussion for the liter bikes with twins, inline 4's, and v4's. Each one is it's own character, and each will keep you grinning from ear to ear. :D
my sv650 was a wheelie machine. so much fun.
I had a BMW K1200r, it had enough torque to pull my arms off when I opened the throttle but it steered like a canal boat
Enjoyed your comments regarding this video, i too, started off on a Honda CB 600F back in the day and still remember the thrills of mixing it in the hills around Brisbane Qlds with mates riding mixed CC powered Bikes. Later i moved up to a GSX1000 and it took me a while to get use to riding confidently in the Hills with mates.
The 600 was so much fun, the 1000 you have to be more on your A game. Enjoyed both Machines, but for me the 600 was a lot more fun in tight corners then the 1000. My opinion anyway on the straights, will 1000 all day
Good video, valid points that you articulate well.
Depending on the track , local track here 600cc holds lap record and has held it for a long time
very interesting! that's great though. It may be a very turn heavy track without many straight aways. Is that the case?
Has to be…
When I was younger I had a KZ 440. My cousin had a Yamaha raiden 600, I rode his 600 and thought it was the fastest most powerful machine around. Later I bought a KZ 1000 j bike and after riding that for a while I again rode the 600 and thought what a small slow bike. True story.
I ride a 1000 on the street and rode an SV650 on the track this past season. I rode, what I felt was extremely fast for a beginner on a small bike. I was able to pass most 600’s. I accredit my quick skill building and confidence to that smaller bike. This season I will use a gsxr600.
Great video , very enjoyable and enlightening
My jump was from a 2013 Daytona 675 to a 07 R1 (built)
The handling was a sacrifice, but the power and acceleration was amazing. The 675 was something that I could thrash around corners, the r1 was a freeway missel
I know it! same bike
*missile. Simpleton.
If you pronounced it correctly that tells you how to spell it.
@@markfox1545Stop whining.
The answer is obvious: GSX-R 750. Owned it, loved it, miss it.
GI D
Super awesome bike
I’d love to see 750’s come back to form.
Sucks that they are killing off the 750.
What about the electrical issues? Stators and rectifier
Damn straight! I had one as well, owned it, loved it, miss it.
In the 80s, We used to say our 750s could out handle anything we couldn't outrun.
Then YAMAHA made a 1000, smaller and lighter than our 750s.
Thumbs up from California, where at 55, I'm still enjoying my the '86 Ninja ZX600R that I purchased back in Jan.'90.
wow !!! what a great discovery this channel is :) , keep up
Another thing to consider is 1000's will cost more than double in insurance, are usually 5-8k more expensive (U.S.), and are far more expensive in general upkeep and for upgrades. Personally though, I can't ever see myself going back to a small bike after experiencing the outright brutality of a 1k.
Thats exactly how I feel....my first was a 600 and I crushed in 28 days...then I bought a 1000 a month later....I am currently on my 2nd (1000cc) and I am not going back to a 600cc...HELL NO 👎!!
Please do a tip video or and in depth how to lean your bike! I need to remove my fear of falling when I lean lol.
That video will definitely be coming in the future, but it just so happens I released an article on this earlier this week. Check it out here... lifeatlean.com/how-to-break-lean-barrier-on-track
This is very well said mate!
Very, Very well explained!!
If you don't think 600s have enough power to scare you then your not riding it hard enough. Even with sticky race tires a modern 600 is plenty capable of highsiding you at 100mph at max lean.
Valentin Debise during the 2018 Daytona 200.
It isn't that a 600 isn't scary, it just isn't the same feeling as a 1000. I daily my R1 in a smallish town though, so I pretty much keep it under 6k rpm which still provides plenty of torque. On the 636 I transitioned on from my 300 to the 1000, I never felt power until like 7-7,500. That just makes the 1000 seem more practical to me in an odd way.
Michael Twining bs...my fz07 one wheel till 3rd maxing gears still doesn't scare me...it makes me want more!!
Michael Twining and I haven't lost a light to light or 1/4 run yet...
We aren't talking about scaring yourself on your commute to work here.
2:00 first time i got on my dad's cb500 twin (with his permission and supervision). "Okay this doesn't feel much different from the 250 it's just a bit rumblier oh it gets even angrier nearing 7k oh it revs even higher whoooooooAAAAWAAAAIT"
Never rode or owned a motorcycle before. Bought a new 2012 R1 and learned on that. Wasn't difficult and everything felt natural. Very easy to tame. Got my motorcycle license using the R1 as well. My lines are generally like the 600cc line you shown in the vid and can't really see myself using the 1000cc line.
Finally a good comparison. Thanks alot
Give Rossi a 600cc & you ride the 1000cc. Let's see who wins!
If it's 3 km straight road, i will beat Rossi.
What's that got to do with anything? He'd still lap you on a 300
It Boils down to one thing, The Rider, and His or Her Skill level. The 600? Definitely excellent for honing one's skills. 1000? A monster just waiting to be released, But Only in the right capable skillful hands, If said Rider has learned.
Great topic guys, my mind is made up to use a CBR 600 RR to get used to it before even thinking about anything bigger. Super video Thanks
Great choice, I started off on a GPz 550 1982 lol, But Hey, I worked my way up the class until, well you get the picture, You be safe buddy, oh and Have eye's in the back of your head, to many cagers out there. Peace
I started riding the track back in 2006 on my 94 Ducati 900SS, bike was upgraded to the max, I built engine to 966CC, heads worked over by Guy Martin at MBP , knife edged crank, Carrillo rods, ST2 cams, all balanced, cams degree'd to 106 lobe centers and squish set. All buttoned up and running split manifold flat slides she put out 106HP and a very nice flat torque curve of 90+ftlbs. Suspension was all done up with Ohlins internals and rolled on magnesium wheels. Bike was an absolute blast to ride on the track, power, handling and I could match and overtake just about every bike out there until we would hit the long straights where the liter bikes would chew me up and spit me out, then I would spend the next lap catching and passing once again.
Keep it up. I'm glad you get straight to the point with real info. 🤙
Thanks Mike!
Im from Australia. I do track days at the famous phillip island track. This is one of the fastest tracks in the world. A good rider on a 600 will destroy a average rider on a 1000. The only place where a 1000 will get you is on the straight.
But if you have 2 riders of equal ability with one on a 600 and one on a 1000, of course the 1000 would win. Guys with 600s preach that a 600 is just as fast, simply put.... it isn't
Kai Petty you're right and wrong. With the same skill, the 600 still weighs less, and also can more effectively put power down in the corners. Therefor able to carry higher speeds albeit less power.
Jordan Erickson i totally understand what you're saying and do agree that you can throw a 600 around more but unless the track is a go kart track, a 1000 is faster than traditional a 600 with equally skilled riders. I ride a 1000 and have never been outrun by an equally skilled rider on a 600. That said I have been outrun many times by better riders on a 600 and it's exactly down to what you're saying, the better riders are able to throw it around and carry more speed then me but if they were on a 1000 the gap would have been even bigger...
Jordan Erickson also i suppose it depends on what era of bikes we are comparing too. With many of the current models there isn't really that much difference in weight between a 600 and a 1000, maybe 20lbs or so which obviously has an impact in the corners but is it enough to allow a slightly lighter and considerably less powerful 600 to beat a 1000 over a full lap? If you do track days/racing and look at the time sheets or some googling to compare times you will see that even on tighter tracks the trend is that the 1000's are quicker (although not by as much as on a more open track with longer straights which is like you say down to corner speeds).
No thats no true. You can brake much later on a 600. also carry higher corner speed. Also a 600 is much less intimidating to ride than a 1000. I have had both. With a 600 you a not scared to open the throttle wide open but with a 1000 you feel bit hesitant to do so
Shoud l bigenner start at a 400 or less ?
a lot more
Yea even 400 may be a bit hard but 125-300 is a good start
A 125. Move up as you improve your skills then stay with the bike you
feel comfortable with and enjoy.. Do not ever get seduced by thinking
bikes with bigger capacity are 'better bikes', they aren't always.
Ride the one you like and ignore the Big Piston macho riders: stay safe.
I like how you broke it down. It left me wanting to say one thing that is why the 750cc was the best of both worlds. I am not your typical motorcycle rider. I am much heavier than the average rider. I found my FZR 600 to struggle a little bit. When I got the bigger motorcycle it did not seem to be an issue. You do ride a 600 much differently than you do the heavier bikes. It is very interesting to hear you talk about the tricks of the trade. I will tell you it is easier for me to go from my larger bike to the smaller one then it is for me to go from the smaller 1 to the bigger 1 even on the same day. On the smaller bike I feel like I have to take more risk and be more precise. On the larger bike I feel like I can be more comfortable everything seems to happen smoother I do not feel like I have to hold my lean as deep or as long. Also, you do not have to shift as much the powerband is larger.
Great information. I think that perhaps there is another chapter. With the advent of IMU's and sophisticated electronics the late model 1000's can be more easily managed. Even quicker and lighter than the 2010 FB but with control. Of course the experienced riders may scoff at relying on electronics but in my experience moving to a liter bike with electronics is no longer terrifying for the new track rider.
To learn how to race you need to first learn how to ride a slow bike fast.
If you start on a 1000 you won't be beating too may 600's even after some time on it.
If you start on a 600 in time you'll be beating riders on 1000's who never raced a 600 first.
At any track, and the reason is aggression.
Track days lack the aggression factor that comes out in racing and that aggression is what mostly overcomes fear.
Riding a smaller bike you fear less the sooner you will be able to ride aggressively.
The faster you learn to be aggressive and attack the circuit and give no quarter to the enemy the sooner you will being at the pointy end of the race.
Starting on a larger bike it'll be a long time if ever you are game enough to ride it aggressively.
A rider on a 600 who is aggressive will beat a rider on a 1000 who less so.
Not hard if you lunge at corners and then cross their acceleration line to block them getting to top speed on the straight.
Once you become an aggressive rider you have that skill and that will carry through to 1000 too.
If you ride the 1000 aggressively 600's wont get around you easily.
slow is smooth ,,, and smooth is fast
AuMechanic why even start at 600. You can get decent 300/400 cc machines nowadays on which you can rip the throttle off way faster than you would on a 600.
Then go for a intermediate bike then a 1000.
What's the hurry.
Start small, ride hard, learn fast.
Smooth is smooth, slow is slow.
If you have no-one to pass or no-one trying to pass you then keeping it smooth and maintaining high corner speeds will keep times down and may help put some distance between you and those behind, or help you to catch up to others..
And in the wet being smooth it's everything.
But when you get to others you need to aggressively prosecute the pass and ride off the line to do it if need be.
If you ride behind others and waiting till they make a mistake, before you know it others will be passing both of you from behind.
+Taher, I could not agree more, I started small capacity stock and ended up on 1000cc superbikes.
Racing the smaller bike and racing close to others and in a pack of other riders they get to learn from others. They learn the importance of getting the best start to avoid the fight in the first corner.
Slip streaming, the best lines for highest corner speeds, out braking, riding off the race line etc.
They learn that every small mistake they see one or two riders pass them.
And falling off is a fact of racing.
They need to start racing something they can afford to crash and a smaller bike will cost less and do less damage to itself when they do fall.
I fell off my smaller bike many times and a straightened bits in the pits in time for my next race.
Second fall off my superbike ended in a near write off, many thousands to fix and 3 months no racing.
It just destroyed itself with all that weight, speed / momentum in it.
I started on an old gsx600f and learn to ride. At the end I was just limited by the bike. But I never reached the end of limit from my r1 but I knew what's happening because of the knowledge of my gsx time.
I have 250 I don't have feelings.
lmao same
😂😂😂
I have a 250 too and love hunting guys on 1000cc bikes...
@Heads Mess I have a 2017 YZF R3 and I just passed the 20K Marker without any issues. It is the first bike I ever bought and I absolutely love it. It kinda saddens me that you're experience with this bike wasn't great cause it is the best 300cc bike out there(In my opinion of course). But if a Bike fails you like this then I guess it does deserve this kind of judgement
250 cc is my starting bike. Hope in future I will buy a 600 cc sports bike. Why not 1000cc u ask because they are fuel junkies and I do not want to invest so much in a bike when I can have all the fun in 600cc half the price.
At the time of thid video I was riding a road bike CBR 600. I wanted a track only bike, not especially a bigger one, but I had a very good opportunity on a GSXR 1000.
Now I regret absolutely nothing. The power is massive, such a pleasure to use. Having to fight with the bike to put down the front wheel at high speed is kind of fun. Also after 2 track days I'm already 11s faster per lap. At the end of the day I'm crazy tired though, it's a lot more demanding.
Yes I use nowhere near the full potential of the bike, however I'm definitely having more fun
Great vid delivered from an objective point of view.
In corners I'm faster with my girlfriends 125 than I am on my 600 haha
I have a Z125 and just bought a ninja 650. I cant wait to get to the track.
Smaller lighter, flicks faster on corners and throttle is forgiving. And smaller tires are key.
neither. superbikes will always be 750cc fours for me!
hold'er Newt - You will not get many arguments about those 750s as superbikes
The same can be said for cars as well when on a track. A 300-400 hp light weight car like a Miata or M2 is great for tight twisty tracks, but a more powerful machine might find it hard to keep the wheels from spinning. But a open road course like Road America is great for more powerful 700+ hp cars. Analyze the situation and pick the best tool for it.
I've been looking at getting me a bike eventually, and making the right choice is difficult. Living in Oregon, the roads out here are twisty and winding, and quite hilly. We also got lots of rain, and debris on the mountain roads. I'll probably pick up something preowned to start and learn with. But I've really been eyeing that new 660 in the pipes from Aprilia. I've watched reviews for damn near every bike out there, and been doing lots or research. So far the two brands that appeal to me is Aprilia, and Suzuki.
I would love to work my way up to a liter bike, eventually. But I don't think it would be very suitable for my local geography. I prefer being in the mountains, and a bike that powerful wouldn't be as enjoyable as something light and nimble. I don't know yet, perhaps I'm over thinking it, perhaps not, I haven't rode a bike since I was a teen, and those were dirt bikes. One things for sure, is it doesn't matter what I'm riding or driving, I've got a lead foot, and i push everything to the limit be it a lawnmower or a 700hp Hotrod. I haven't wrecked yet, so I'm looking for something else to entertain my lust for speed. 'Knock on wood'
So far I've driven cars, pickups, semi trucks, tractors, boats, ATV's, and go-karts. I've ridden bicycles, and a few dirt bikes. Only thing left to try now are some actual road bikes. I think getting a bike will be a good way to break into my 30's.
I rode the R1 and R6 at silverstone. I ride in the intermediate group. For me the R1 was thrilling to ride but in some ways I preferred the r6. The straights were an issue at silverstone given how fast they are for the r6. But I felt way more confident on the R6 at corner entry. I felt like I could brake way later and lean the bike more. That’s to do with my experience level I guess. Both fantastic bikes regardless. I now have a Tuono factory v4 and it feels like the R6 for agility but has close to the power of the superbikes. It’s so confidence inspiring on track. It never got out of shape. Moral of the story, buy a tuono factory v4 😀
Why does everyone in England add the world "Bloody" in front of every word ?!
PS: Your video was Bloody good !
part of the education system
600 for the track 1000 for the road. And it's not about speed. They will both go much faster than ever required.
Many years ago I bought my first (and only) 1000cc sport bike (1999 Suzuki TL1000R) after riding a couple of years on my Suzuki Bandit 600. I quickly felt that the TLR was way too much for street riding - like to have fun on it and ride it hard had me riding at speeds WAY beyond safe for public roads. At safe & legal speeds, it was loafing and seemed to always be “tugging at the leash” so to say. In 2005, I bought a new Ducati Monster S2R - 800cc air cooled, 2 valve per cylinder V-Twin with about 80 hp. I bought race fairings for the TLR and it became my track day bike, the Monster was for the streets. I loved that because I could ride the Monster pretty hard on the streets and not find myself at ludicrous speeds as easily as on the TL. The TL on the track was a lot of work to ride it hard but it was a hell of a lot fun to ride without fear of cops, traffic and dangerous road conditions. Seeing my tires with shredded rubber at the edges gave me satisfaction that the bike was being used for what it was built for when I came off the track exhausted from riding near my limit. I’ve found the Monster is more than capable of any street riding I want from it and is always a pleasure to ride. I never feel like it’s “bored” on the streets like I did with the Suzuki.
Fantastic rebuttal....cheerio!
Great and honest vid. A hard topic to conquer, but done well.
Ridden both but prefer my little Aprilia RS250. Not the fastest in straight lines but their easy.
+A_Sensible_Young_Man you should be an English teacher
Woa, Aprilia RS250 is my dream bike! Unfortunately they're quite expensive and rare to get so I haven't been able to get one yet . I used to have a 125, loved to ride that one on countryside roads, had to keep shifting gears which made riding more interesting. Rode on a 250 a few times, seemed like a much quicker 125 but just as much fun. The problem I have with the 1000 that I can just keep it in one or two gear(s) when riding on normal roads, everything just seems easier. With my 125 (and few times I rode an 250) I really had to work for it in order to keep up with my mates. Oh, and two strokes are just fun to tinker around with :)
I'm mortified of a 1000+cc bike. I have a 650 and I'm just fine with that. I'm not a racer so for my riding i dont need it
You're what? Mortified means "embarrassed". Do you mean terrified, which means "scared"?
That's a well explained video. I think the 600cc would really allow a riding to push the bike to it's limits and of course that gives the rider so much more confidence in there riding skills. The 1000cc are beast that aren't tamed of easy. For alot of riders a lower capacity bike would be a much more satisfying experience.
I'm a college student so I haven't had a track day mostly due to lack of funds (racing leathers and a new helmet are expensive). I daily an 05 R1. My biggest gripe is the heat which I never experienced on my previous bike which was a ninja 300. The R1 is great because I like the low end power. I rode around on a friends 636 before I got the R1 and it just didn't do it for me. Also, my closest track is COTA, so the liter bike is a good fit for that track. I think if you can only buy one bike and you want a sport bike, the best ones are the 1000s that have the modes.
better ride my 110cc yamaha cub fast than ride a R1 slow ...
nah nah nah nah 300 for the track, makes you a way better and faster rider
Awesome video, enjoyed this
I was 69 years old running a 1991 TZR 250 at the California Superbike School. There were some cornering situation wherein the little 2T would pass a BMW S 1000 RR. Of course, on the straights I was at about at least 120hp disadvantage.
Riding a highly capable small bike to near its limit is much more fun than struggling with a faster big bike that you cannot possibly exploit.
1000 vs 600 is not track dependant. For example I race at a track called broadford. It s little, tight track. only 2km long. The lap record set here is a guy on a 600. Then at phillip island a 1000 will bet a 600 down the straight but a 600 will bet 1000 everywhere else. The only way a 1000 will bet a 600 is if you have some like rossi ride both bikes and it will only be a few seconds difference.
Not track dependent? Try a drag strip lol.
something1random23 drag strips aren't tracks. They're strips. I'll you have to worry about is going straight. Which i know isn't easy on a drag bike but a stock streetbike on a drag strip vs a track it is much easier to go straight than to ride the track and takes little skill to perform well. Again that is for stock bikes only, not purpose built drag bikes.
Nobody ever said a race track needs to have sharp curves.
"A race track (or "racetrack", "racing track" or "racing circuit") is a facility built for racing of vehicles, athletes, or animals (e.g. horse racing or greyhound racing)."
something1random23 but we are comparing actual skill not speed. It's obvious a 1000cc bike will beat a 600 in a drag race. Takes very little skill to make a 1000cc go fast.
Some tracks have more straights than others. That's obvious too, making things track dependent. It takes little skill to make a 1000 cc go fast? I hate to break it to you, but it's a lot harder to reach the limit of the capabilities of a 1000 cc bike compared to a 600 cc bike in general, under any situation, including a drag race. Even the OP of this thread admitted that if you have the skill, the 1000 cc will always be faster.
Not much difference u r kidding yourself. 1000rr is a monster.
but its harder to ride.. smaller bike you can max it even in cornets. try to flat out 1000 in corner ..off you go ..
im no pro rider
i started 125 cc
then 300 cc
then 1000 cc gsxr
then i started track days
the k4 was amazing but no matter how hard i tried i couldnt get the power down corectly
in my hands the k4 was useless
i was missing apex and felt heavy
i couldnt handle the power corectly.
maybe its the track i dont know (megara circuit) in greece.
so i sold it and bought r6.
PERFECT!!!!
all power down all apex bullseye!!!!!
my times improved and felt much lighter!!!!
600cc is perfect for me!!!
generally im in to cornering and not high speeds...
nice video keep it up!!!
I got a 2006 yzf y6s(basically a 05 r6) and I can’t wait to do my first track day on it! It’s a blast to power out of corners, but street riding has great limitations.