Walther PDP Match Steel Frame - 1000 Round Review - Big Price... but a big payout?
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Being a long time Walther fan, I purchased my first competition gun to get into this amazing sport which was the Walther Q5 Match Steel Frame. After spending over 45,000 Rounds on one… I made different decision for my main competition pistols going forward (MPA DS9 & CZ Shadow 2). Then Walther introduced the PDP line and being spoiled by the Q5 SF, it feel short of my expectations… then they came out with the PDP Match Steel Frame.
In this video, I do a 1000 Round Review in which I discuss any findings I have with reliability and overall shooting experience
Link to my page: www.gentlemang...
#walther #pdp #waltherpdp #waltherq5
Got turned on to your videos from Humble marksman channel and it doesn't disappoint!
I love that Walther built a steel frame version of the PDP! Also glad I didn’t buy the Q5 match before this came out!
Price drops suggest something new is coming.
This is legitimately my favorite firearm
Wow, what a great, thorough, objective review. Thanks 👍
I have one of these on order. Hopefully it comes soon! I’m going to change out the recoil assembly for ZR tactical’s new “long stroke” guide rod that apparently softens recoil even more and adds some more weight to the front.
Bro you’re making it harder for me to not want this gun 😆. But it all seriousness I really want to try this one out so bad. If I end up liking it, I’ll reward myself with one of if I reach my goal of A class this year
This thing digs into my thumb bone and creates an additional unpleasant pressure point, low in the palm. Not a comfortable gun to shoot for me, or my wife. I also get dead trigger from sideways pressure on the trigger safety blade, which doesn't happen with my PDP Pro SD😮 5.1". I was really excited for this thing, but it is not what I expected, and not great for smaller hands. Maybe I got a dud. Glad it works for you. Great channel. Subscribed.
I have the PDP PRO SD non Steel frame and man that gun is a damn nice shooter. I did throw in the DPMS recoil system for giggles and took a great gun and somehow made it even better. Might have to sell this one and pick up a steel frame at some point! 😂
I picked mine up yesterday. Put on a Holosun 507 Comp and put in the ZR Tactical Stainless Guide Rod with 15lb spring. It weighs in at 44.8 oz. As an IDPA shooter, this is a big concern for sanctioned matches. I don’t want to have to remove the magwell to make weight if it’s heavy at inspection, but can’t think of too many other options unless I can find a lighter optic plate. I would like to have more than a 0.2 oz cushion for scale calibration differences.
I know what you mean… Kevin Harding’s and my Q5SFs were like that. Mine was 44.5 oz; Kevin’s 44.9oz. It’s hard to fix with parts, I know the difference in mine from Kevin’s were I used LOK G10 grips and Springer +0 basepads with the IDPA cut… which is where the nominal difference was.
I have a ZR Tactical Optic Plate on the way. Hoping that the lighter aluminum plate will help me out a little. I’m going to reach out to Lok to see if they can give me a weight on their grips. I hate having to chase weight, but it’s definitely worth it with the quality of this firearm. I ordered the Dara Action Sport Holster on 2/13 and it will be delivered on 2/27, so not too bad of a turnaround for a quality made to order holster.
@@JawnThicc how's the holster?
@@josephhersheyI have been pleased with it. The only thing I disliked at first with the design is that right above the the trigger guard, there is an annoying section that flares out which would cover the mag release button for a left handed shooter. I see no purpose to it since I am a right hand shooter and you specify the handedness when ordering. I was going to cut it off, but when drawing at speed, I do not notice it at all. Other than that, I have no complaints. It is a high quality product. It mounts well with both my leather EDC belt as well as the Nexbelt I use for IDPA. The retention adjusts very well. My pistol has hand hang up’s if my belt is a little too loose or if my draw stroke is not up to par and I draw it out at too much of an angle. I look at that more as a positive aspect for training though, and something that has only improved my drawing proficiency. There is a very fast and smooth release when your drawing mechanics are proper.
Update: I added Lok Grips Standard Bogies. Wow, what an improvement. Of course it comes at a cost. I can’t use them for IDPA. It bumped my overall weight up to 45.6 oz. I contacted Lok Grips before I placed my order, they said they didn’t have an exact weight, but their grip should be less weight than factory grip, which sadly wasn’t the case.
I've tried shadow 2, PDP, Staccato, etc.
the PDP with the DPT trigger and sprinco springs is by far the best trigger on the planet.
I love your videos man! Thanks for doing what you do. Always enjoy them no matter the product. I’d like to see your thoughts compared to the Canik Steel!
I own this gun and there’s a few things you can do to squeeze out more performance.
1. Change the recoil spring and guide rod to anything else. I run the ZRTS long stroke recoil spring and guide rod. That makes the gun insanely softer to shoot. Nick Young, Tony Mazza and a few other team walther shooters use it as well.
If you don’t want to remove the dust cover/ spacer: I’d run a stainless steel ZRTS guide rod with a 15lb ISMI spring. You’ll find either of these options to be A LOT better than stock.
Basepads that work WITHOUT the magwell: Taylor Freelance, Henning, ZRTS, and Floyd’s Custom Shop. Oh! TTI works as well. With and without the magwell.
LokGrips makes “Bogeys” for the PDP Match SF. I noticed you had them on your Q5 SF. You’ll probably enjoy those as well. I carry mine daily and while people call me crazy for it: it doesn’t bother me whatsoever. My polymer 5” PDP has a TF Brass Weight kit on it. So loaded it was 54oz. However the noticeable difference I’ll note is the PDP SF is VERY WELL balanced comparably speaking. I went to purchase a CZ S2 and noticed how nose heavy it was. I didn’t exactly care for it. I’m glad I went with the PDP SF instead.
Full disclosure: I am NOT a competitive shooter. Yet 😂 this is an EDC gun for me. I carried the 5” as my EDC for almost 2 straight years and put around 4500rds on it. The Steel Frame is a decent amount of money, but compared to a Staccato P…I’d take it over the Staccato. Plus if you’re already in the PDP ecosystem: it makes a lot more sense to grab one. Especially if you already have 10-15 magazines.
Found your channel from The Humble Marksman. Subscribed and VERY impressed. 🫡
I'm a big fan on the sprinco guide rod system in my pdp, absolutely love it.
Hi Sir! I can only find the long stroke guide rod with a 14lbs spring for the gun on the ZR Tactical Solution web site. Which other recoil spring do you mean? Buy them separately? Thx
@@nicklasgammer3192the long stroke system is a 14# spring and a full length guide rod. Specifically designed for the steel frame 5”.
The other options are the uncaptured or captured PDP/PPQ guide rod. They make them in stainless steel, brass (the one I ran for 2 years) and different variations in styles of stainless steel. The uncaptured ones can be bought separately and you can choose your spring. 15lbs is what you want. 13lbs if you’re running a compensator. Sorry for the late reply.
@@Vante512 Much obliged, thank you very much for clarifying. I am trying to figure out which captured spring is the best, the ZR Tactical or the DPM Systems. Best regards
How does it stack up compared to other guns in the same high price bracket? Owning a PDP SD, its hard to think this has a 1k value difference. But you say it shoots fantastic so I'm willing to switch from my Prodigy.
Damn, you really run that thing wet. FYI, the rigned chamber contributes to keeping the pistol clean as it allows for less carbon to blow past the case.
Please tell me that T_Taylor stands for “Tim… the tool man, Taylor!” 😃
Good stuff. Is this the best striker gun trigger you've shot (better than Zev, Canik, or M&P flat face)? And can it compete with a staccato P trigger?
@@saintmichael753 this is a can of worms lol… but from what you listed … I’d give the edge to the Walther as it has a touch less pre travel than the Canik. Zev and the M&P are not in the running (although they’re good). As far as Staccato P (or any 2011)… I’d lean 1911/2011.
Now that I have had time on all these platforms and asked me which gun I would take for general competiton … I’d take a PDP Steel Frame over any 2011. Way easier to live with and shoot
Good deal, appreciate it. When you say way easier to live with and shoot, do you mind elaborating? Reliability issues and excessive cleaning of 2011s? Make sure they're properly lubed and they should be OK right?
@@saintmichael753 aside from oiling and cleaning… shooting a Walther SF (of any kind) doesn’t require having to take an extra step to defeat the safety on a draw... for my size hands… I have to also be considerate to grip it so I don’t bump the thumb safety. If you’re competing, you have additional options for which divisions you can shoot. Parts in general are less expensive and I haven’t come across a situation where fitting was required for parts (also easier to take apart and reassemble).
Betweeen the PDP Match SF and CZ Shadow 2, which one do you think is a better gun ?
@@Gabierama Both guns Are great and whats “better” is purely subjective. For me, I’m a competitor and the one edge the S2 has a mature and well developed after market. Anytime something innovative comes out for competition… it usually happens on the S2 or Glock. That said, because I like to compete in multiple sports and divisions… I’d take the PDP SF because it does not require a ton of changes and/or has all the the requirements to easily switch over. The S2 came out many years ago and was designed with production in mind. But I’m done switching platforms for my main comp gun so I’m staying on the CZ75 ecosystem
As you can see, it’s not a simple answer for me at least. But had to go through quite a bit of years and ammo to draw that conclusion.
Looks nice, but I think the Q5 Match SF Pro still looks a lot sexier. I'm enjoying your reviews!
I think I lean that way as well 😬
Is this vid done with the factory recoil spring? Thx, great vid!
Yes sir
I am shooting 147 gr bullets. I put the 15lb ZR Tactical captured spring in and it was too soft shooting for me. I switched back to the factory spring and it’s much easier for me to shoot and my preferred set up at the moment. It took about 1500 rounds for my trigger to really smooth out, and now I can say I am impressed with this firearm. I plan on loading some 125 gr bullets and trying that out with the 15lb spring.
Great detailed video. I’m going to get the PDP Match 5” polymer. It looks like the slide is ported. Is it? And, can I get the barrel ported from Walther?
It’s not ported. I don’t think Walther currently offers an option to port barrels… there are probably some shops that can do it though (although I cannot make those recommendations due to YT policies)
@@TheGentlemanGunner Thank you. I know the shops 😉
@@TheGentlemanGunner I contact Walther about the slide being ported and just heard back and the slide IS ported.
@@Mr3dperformance brother I apologize, you’re correct. I re-read your original comment and your clearly said slide… my mind went to ported BARREL… because that’s a hot topic for us on our side. Appreciate you challenging me on that and go crush it!
@@TheGentlemanGunner No worries. Thanks for your great videos
Great video. Thank you.
Couple questions...
1) if you don't mind me asking, what class are you?
2) do they make baseplates that is compatible with this gun that are bigger? Don't necessarily care how many extra rounds you get... I HATE trying to speed reload with this gun cause the mags sit way too flat.
Thank you so much. Blessings!
Thank you for watching!
To answer your question - USPSA A & IDPA Master - both in Carry Optic
Yes, I put a link in the description with some recommendations!
@@TheGentlemanGunner I have a question Is the PdP recoil spring and guide rod similar enough to a Canik Rival -S that one could use a PdP spring to get a lighter recoil spring?
@@hopewilliams6705 I’m not entirely sure, but it’s plausible. Best way to figure out is if the parts numbers are the same (I’ll give it a look in the near future). I do know someone came out with a 15lb spring… I believe it’s the setup form ZR Tactical
@@TheGentlemanGunner Rune tactical has a delrin guide rod and choice of 15-14-13-&12 lb springs I was thinking of going with the 14 because l feel like the Rival -S is over sprung also
@@TheGentlemanGunnerZR does have a 15lb stainless steel captured guide rod that works across the entire PDP platform. I have over 2000 rounds on my PDP Pro with zero malfunctions. ZR also makes a captured long stroke guide rod with 14lb spring for the 5” match. He has a video up on his channel. ZR offers excellent customer service. Quick responses to all questions I asked and the quality and craftsmanship is fantastic! I am really hoping to be able to pick up a Match within the next few weeks. I am still debating over putting the dynamic trigger in the 4.5” or just going with the 5”. It’s a tough call and I definitely won’t be able to get two of them.
Awesome review as usual! Have you had a chance to play with the 4.5” and 5” to compare?
I haven’t yet. But I suspect David will produce a video about it if he hasn’t already
I’m waiting for mine - will come this week hopefully. The sad that they will not come an 4,5 that could compare it to. I’m little worried that the match dips in return of the slide - and the 4,5 will be faster back to zero and be a more manageable gun on the track - what do you say around my concern? I’m competing in Ipsc and are not allowed to use the mag well.
I’d say don’t overthink and worry about it… Walther did a great job with moving the balance back into the hands. If you watch the slo-mo… mind doesn’t dip much… but what I want to stress is to focus on how the gun returns to zero for you rather than dip/rise.
@@TheGentlemanGunner I agree - but the return to Zero is the dip and rise. And a lighter shorter slid should move faster. The shorter slide should put the weight back less dip but could also be more because of the speed. That should in the teori make it faster to Zero. If you want to challenge the rise ( because of a ligher gun etc) you put the Walther tungstens rod in it - that will give a low weight on a no moving mass. It works on my pdp polymer - much better than a lighter springs - if we talk recoil management and return back to zero. IF you load cant cycle bullet it is an other thing but in that case I'm below pf120 with my 132 bullet and that not legal in IPSC production. But this overthinking game is the only I can do ;-) until I have test it. The sad thing is that it is my Match will come first and the 4,5 is 2 month later in stock in Sweden.
The mags definitely have an issue. Especially with the long stroke system that you can upgrade it with. Reloading a hot chamber with a fully stocked mag will cause a failure to fire.
Great 1000 round follow-up. Interesting about it going out of battery when loading up 20+1. Have you heard that's a common problem? Could it just be your gun? I'm gonna have to try one of these, I think. My Q4 and Q5 SFs are likely going to have to find new homes. It says a lot that you prefer shooting it over your S2. Funny coincidence - I took my S2 OR out to the range yesterday for the first time in ages - I've been obsessing over my new found love affair with 2011s - and man, it felt so damn good and familiar. I was surprised how terrific it felt. Guess I shouldn't have been but dang, it put a smile on my face. 😁
I’ve looked up and down for info on This as well as trying to figure out why this happens from a Mechanical standpoint. I don’t want present theories… but I haven’t heard of it being an issue with others… but I personally find it takes a while for this issues to make it publicly so we will see!
I Appreciate you always commenting and checking out the videos!
@TheGentlemanGunner Yeah, issues like that will take a while to surface. Gotta figure once the guns get in the hands of more and more competition shooters, we'll know if the issue is prevalent.
Thanks for the informative videos!👍🏻
Im interested in your classes! You are an amazing shooter, even when Ive seen you have malfunctions you work through them quickly and seamlessly. So I would be interested in classes when you hold them
I’ll update it soon. I was going to have one in May, but my “day job” made it tough for me this month. Be on the look out and love your attitude this early on in the game! Always helping and having fun 👊🏻
Hi there, do you know if the Q5 SF and PDP Match SF slide and frame interchange and function? I cannot find this answer anywhere. Thank you.
@@walkingblur I know @thegentlemangunner can tell you and if he doesn’t know I have a Q5 I can give him so he can try it out since I don’t own the PDP SF YET! :)
@@walkingblur they don’t… I tried and it’s intentional. It gets hung up on the back plate
Thank you both! Good to know. I have seen some one posted pictures of them interchanged, but they did not test fire the gun. Now I have an answer.
Question: I own and love the Q4 SF so much I bought 2, what is the difference in the PDP SF?
@@QuantumTactical one of my all time favs (even more than Q5 SF)…
I’m going to have to play off memory and from what I remember as it’s been a few years. What I loved about the Q4SF was how fast it returns to zero and how it swung in transition over the Q5 SF. The weight was in the hands so it had a great balance. Imho… Walthers best kept secret for avid shooters.
Compared to the PDP SF (Match/Full-Size). The ergonomics are better for large/XL hands on the PDP SF… so longer grip length on the bottom and the shouldering in the beaver tail is shaped to my liking. What Walther did well was combined those attributes I loved about Q4SF and put them in this gun… so better balanced and even faster return to zero. I’d say this gun is noticeably softer shooting if that’s important to you.
Other differences (much of this is in my original PDP SF First Shots Review)… improved and beefier barrel lug, Dynamic Trigger, lower optic mounting…
If you love the Q4SF and its distinguishing attributes… you may want to take a look at the 4” SF version of the PDP. I haven’t tried one and have only dry-fired one… but basically the same as a Q4SF
@@TheGentlemanGunner you are truly a gentleman my friend and an insightful reviewer and clearly an enthusiast. I have been wondering if there is enough of a change in the 4” PDP to make the addition worthy of adding to the collection, which is what too big as is. I have many gucci guns to compete with and for some reason I always come back to the Q4. I choose it over the Atlas Artemis, the CZ shadow 2s though the A01LD done by CZ Custom is a dream. I have even moved it solidly into my carry rotation so I have it on me to when the range randomly calls my name.
Please keep doing what you do. We all benefit from your honesty and deep pool of knowledge!
Thanks for the video. Any thoughts on this versus the 4.5" version with an added dynamic performance trigger?
I personally haven’t seen or even manipulated one. I know David has from the Humble Marksman channel. A while ago, we did a comparison between 4” and 5” guns… in that video were Q4SF and Q5SF… both of us agreed that if you were using an RDS… the Q4SF was the winner between those two due to the balance and cycling quicker which lead to a faster return to zero. He briefly mentioned (and bear I mind this can change) that he got to briefly shoot both the 4” and 4.5” with the dynamic trigger and felt the same way in the sense that he’d prefer the shorter barrel setups for the same reasons
Just sub. Awesome detail with your videos. Good work.
The main problem I have is the price, even if it does shoot very nice. There is a Canik rival steel frame that is gonna be shooting quite close to it at literally half the price…
Too heavy to add a light would put it out of the running for IDPA. Unless one wants to go back to a handheld light😢😅
Excellent content and review. The only frustrating thing about your video, IMO, is when you're talking with the gun you are not in focus and holding a black gun in front of a black t-shirt.
what do you think about swapping out the spring for a 15# ?
Id probably consider it with a gamer type load. I’ve Heard of a couple of positive comments on it from some strong shooters.
I have had great success running the ZR captured guiderod with 15# spring, with both 124 and 135 grain bullets. I did run into a lot of issues though running 147 grain with lighter powder weight. Several issues with failing to extract and go into battery. Mine has been running 147 grain fine closer to the higher end of recommended load data.
Don’t have this but my Q4 SF at $899 brand new is a nice option 😂
@@RepentorPerish77 I’m with you on that. Q4SF is one of Walther’s greatest secrets… only saying that because they didn’t put much effort into marketing them.
Between this new Walther PDP Match SF Vs Canik Rival-S , which one do you think is better?
PDP SF
@@TheGentlemanGunner nice 👍
Thank You!
I appreciate all the content you do for us. Keep it up!
would my Canik MBX mags work in this gun?
I’m not sure and couldn’t find any info on it on MBXs website. Assuming they’re the 140mm mags… it’s a strong possibility.
@@TheGentlemanGunner FYI they do not.
Didn't you get DQ'd when you step out of the boundaries at 12:33?
No, you can do that in USPSA. IPSC however, requires you to stay in the shooting area.
So if you were buying guns right now you would pick the pdp steel over the cz s2?
Yes 😎
@@TheGentlemanGunner this might be pushing it a little bit. But, what about the pdp vs the mighty mpa ds9? lol
@@kevinmcdonald6849 oh Kevin… 😂
@@TheGentlemanGunnerwhy would you pick this over the S2?
@@redliner1408 simplicity. Less parts and maintenance, no DA, and the balance is incredible.
I can’t decide between this and the P226 xfive legion
Both!
Can you do a video q5 sf vs pdp sf?
Ah…the siren song of buying skill through expensive equipment. I tried it, didn’t work.I will resist.
What is the measured trigger reach?
Are you still currently shooting this in comp ?
Not anymore
@@TheGentlemanGunner I’m thinking about making the jump front the polymer match to the steel frame . Think it’s worth it ?
@@ericscott6427 yes, while the investment is a good jump… it’s general shooting characteristics are appreciably improved
I have a question? Where can I purchase it? I can't find it anywhere.
So… YT polices won’t let me refer. But what I can tell you is that I got this one in the video from a gun broker dealer. Sorry I can’t give specifics other than that.
@@TheGentlemanGunner thank you.
Thanks for the info
Hey Man, just stumbled onto your channel. Liked & Subscribed! I Respect your knowledge so I would really like to hear your general opinion on the PDP Match SF compared to Shadow System DR920-L, M&P 5" Steel, the new Canik TTI Combat, Sig AXG 5" Pro and of course Glock Gen 5/34? I know You probably haven't shot all of these. But like I said, just your view of these would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for a great video........
Thank you for watching and subbing!
To answer your question, I have shot all those with the exception of the TTI Canik. I’ll keep it simple and make a list starting with my personal choice….
1. PDP Match SF
2. Sig AXG 5” Pro
3. M&P Steel
4. SS DR920L
5 G34 Gen 5
Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. You have a new loyal Subscriber!!! @@TheGentlemanGunner
What holster options are there?
For now, I’ll go with Dara as an option. I know Redhill Tactical makes them as well if you’re looking for custom… but a little lack luster in fit and hard on finishes from my Experience
Will this gun take Canik mags?
Unfortunately it won’t
@@TheGentlemanGunner the Q5 match does……so did Walther make dramatic changes to the frame?
@@fotofavoloso267 height
This vs the canik rival-s?
Maybe 😬
This is the ultimate comparison that we’re need!!!
*You sound like you relatively know what you're talking about... so try to get rid of this myth:*
*4:50** Springs don't need to be broken in.*
I work in a multitude of industry verticals, including guns, and every industry has the same myth about spring break in.
Car struts need break in, Valvetrain springs need break in, Gun springs need break in, Mold popper springs need break in.
No.
EVERY THING ELSE... needs break in. Flash needs to come off edges, burrs need to wear off contact, metal frictional surfaces need to level.
*EVERY THING ELSE EXCEPT THE SPRING NEEDS BREAK IN.*
I promise.
This has me curious, so everytime I put a new guide rod and recoil spring in… I was essentially removing flash and burrs which was the actual cause of what I felt was like a “softening” or is the myth not necessary a break in, but a change in spring tension over extended period of use? Very interested in this thought
@@TheGentlemanGunner Yep. I have to buy some ridiculous testing equipment to do what I do. And very high on the ridiculous scale, is a spring tester. Cheap ones are a grand. Good ones are a few grand. Best ones test multiple parameters at once, not just the spring rating.
Caveat to my statement is a "properly made spring". Chinesium doesn't cut it.
You gotta lay off the carbs dude
@@doughhandel no
I'll take a Stealth Arms Platypus for a few hundred less instead.