What if you have to learn the language you hate? Right now I’m living in a country I hate, they speak the language I hate, they have the culture I hate, everything about the country and language itself is not to my liking at all, but due to circumstances I MUST learn it, any advice?
Very true what u say about learning a language naturally! I'm a Spanish native speaker, and I learned English without studying, by just chatting on internet, watching movies and games, etc. Thank you very much for letting me know it's ok to make mistakes. Now my goal is to fully learn Japanese, and I will be doing the same, mixed with studying the alphabet and Kanji 😄
Thank you for this. I've been failing in basics of english since I was a child, and everytime I failed my thoughts were always the same "You're supposed to know this already, why are you still failing at it?" but now I'm trying to forget about that and enjoy the language, not suffer with it.
@@aquamarina7944 totally agree with Lynngolango, your written sentences look 100% like a native speaker's. As a former professional translator, I am keenly aware how easy it is to make tell-tale slip-ups in a language not our own. But you are well beyond that, you and native. So, if you really are a non-native speaker and not just kidding us, hats off to you. I'm in awe :-)
Back in school, my average grade in English was a C. Later, it became an A-, but not because I had put any conscious effort into improving my English, but because I had begun to read books and comics in English. I only used a dictionary when it was necessary. Like you said, you will learn the most common words automatically if you immerse yourself in the language. I think I did pretty well without ever having been to an English speaking country.
Books are the bestest best friend of a language learner, the only problem that i don't like to read. When i read a few books i realized my mother tongue improved, i found words way easier than before, expressing myself became so easy but i don't read anymore. 🙃
Same, but with stupids series and stupids contents on youtube! I improved my English in six months a lot more than in ten years at school studying with "serious" materials.
This is one of Steve's best videos yet. At age 48 I moved to Germany from the UK and had to start again with the language that I had learned in school. Although some 'basics' of grammar were still there deeply buried in my brain, I had to refresh everything and certainly build up vocabulary like a beginner. And here's the thing, although I would now and again look in a grammar book to check something I did not try to memorise 'rules' or lists. Instead I did loads of reading and spent hundreds of hours listening to native speakers and analysed use of grammar in context to understand how the language works. When it came to vocabulary learning I remember the metaphor of a 'radar' that was often in my mind. At the start all words in the target language are foreign and unknown. Millions of words are flying around in that language every day, both spoken and written. Then your brain notices a particular word or phrase flying across the mind's 'radar' regularly and it begins to pay attention to that word or phrase. For example, every day I would hear Germans say "Sag mir Bescheid". I never learned that phrase in school. What does that mean? Ah, "tell me" or "let me know" in my native language. It took me another two years before I could use it with confidence myself. Now I don't even think about it. Sixteen years later at age 64 I can stand on a stage in Germany as a professional storyteller and entertain a German audience in their own language. Every time I open my mouth I still make small mistakes. It doesn't matter! Now I am learning Ukrainian and challenging myself to learn the story of Little Red Riding Hood so I can tell it to native speaker refugees here. Keep practicing. Übung macht den Meister!
Vielleicht könntest du dann auch direkt bei deinen Landeskameraden mit dem Vorurteil aufräumen, Deutsch sei eine harte und hässliche Sprache! :D Its only because of one guy that the whole planet has the prejudice torwards us germans.
@@danielmeier8321 Ja, der Mark Twain hat da wegen 'hässlicher' Sprache viel zu verantworten! Das mit dem Adolf ist so eine Sache. Wenn Millionen auch nicht mitgemacht hätten, wäre er in Vergessenheit geraten. Aber ja, der ungerechte Versailles-Vertrag, die große Inflation und eine gute Portion Verschwörungserzählungen und Propaganda gegen Juden waren alle mitverantwortlich. Die Geschichte ist eben kompliziert. Ich bin immer wieder beeindruckt, wie die Mehrheit der modernen Deutschen diese Geschichte nicht verleugnen sondern aufarbeiten wollen. Das Gleiche kann ich nicht bei meinen Landsleuten wegen britischem Imperium oder bei den Amerikanern wegen ihrem Imperium beobachten. Zu oft leider nur Selbstgefälligkeit! Nur ein Tipp für Deutsche im Ausland. Nicht immer sofort die besten Plätze beim Pool mit dem Handtuch 'reservieren' - das kommt nicht gut an! ;-)
That’s amazing. Thank you for supporting Ukraine ❤ Wish you luck with Ukrainian, too :) It’s not so difficult as it might look first. Btw, we do understand foreigners even if they mix up all the inflections. And it’s inspiring when foreigners try to speak my mother tongue 😊
@@rickyning Yes, thanks to LingQ I am making great progress with Ukrainian. I intend to hold my first conversation with a native speaker refugee in the next few weeks.
1 year before I saw you with Gabriel Polyglot. I always thought that learning a foreign language would be impossible for an ordinary person. And today, I can watch this video and understand what you're saying. Thank you.
I find studying the basics (I.e., grammar) helps in somewhat unexpected ways. First it helps accelerate my noticing and understanding certain patterns. Often I find native speech “in the wild” has so much going on that I’m too overwhelmed to notice patterns. I also find that if I’m really struggling with a particular grammar concept, I realize I’m just not ready for it yet-try again later. Second it gives me confidence to speak a little earlier especially with common patterns (e.g., what to do with modal and main verbs, how to conjugate a particular tense, where do modifiers belong) . There comes a point where certain things just sound right, but studying a little grammar allows me to start playing with the pattern in my output earlier than I probably would otherwise. I’m guessing I need 70-80% input, and 20-30% “studying the basics.”
The people that tell you not to study grammar and vocabulary are usually trying to sell an app or program. I completely agree with your comment and have a similar learning style.
Agreed! There is no good reason to do just one OR the other sequentially!!! Learning both “the basics” and getting lots of exposure to the new language at the right level - BOTH at the same time! - is best. I think you greatly reduce your efficiency if you only get natural exposure OR if you only get explanations with a few examples, as in a language learning book. Of my 5 languages, I learned one of them, Spanish, solely through natural exposure. Though I speak very fluently and understand a wide variety of accents well, a number of errors got “baked in”…like for example, I don’t always use the subjunctive when I should. I think that this tends to happen when you learn as an adult. You don’t necessarily notice everything and if you can communicate, you’re saying, “obviously this is correct” to yourself. Whereas my German, which I learned later through combined theoretical study and practical exposure is more correct.
YES! The OP is clearly a hardcore Krashenite - I’ve got a masters degree in TESOL and Krashen is like the cranky old godfather of Second Language Acquisition studies: he was instrumental in establishing the field, a couple of concepts have stood the test of time, but mostly he’s referred to in the literature as an example of the crazy stuff we used to believe before 40 years of further theorization and empirical research has proven his core hypothesis wrong. Krashen argued that Comprehensible Input is necessary AND sufficient for acquiring a second language. That’s BS. It’s certainly necessary, but insufficient. Studying vocab and grammar, using language productively, interaction, meaningful practice - these are all important components in language learning. Look up the “interaction hypothesis” for a better sense of why input is not enough, and look up Paul Nation’s “Four Strands” for a very easily digestible sense of the state of the art of our understanding of how languages are learned and how they should be taught.
I'm Brazilian, and thus Portuguese is my native language. I learned English when I was very young, through immersion in vast English material - music, games, movies, text, etc. I don't remember studying a book or memorizing rules. Before I even knew it, I could come up with phrases which simply made total sense, grammatically, with the patterns I had been picking up on. Since then, I see immersion as the only effective way to learn a new language, one does not have to brute force one's way into a language.
I think the same way that you do, in regards to immersion. I’m an American who traveled to Brazil several times a year. I would call myself intermediate in Portuguese. If I spent two weeks in São Paulo.. by the third day, I would understand most of what’s going on around me. It took that long for my mind to get used to the patterns and the rhythm of Brazilian Portuguese. But you only get there by being constantly inundated with the language. And the best part about it, is actually spending time in that country. Having no choice but to listen and speak intently.
Valid points - I noticed this myself recently when I started learning Japanese. I kept repeating the first two units in my study book over and over, and at some point it felt like I was stuck. I was so focused on memorizing the “basics“, that I forgot about making any progress. After becoming aware of that fact, I remembered how I actually learned/studied English back in the days, and I noticed that back then I was actually indirectly pushing myself to make progress by reading and listening to things I didn‘t fully understand yet, but I always looked it up afterwards. The more I read and listened, the more easy stuff like grammar and vocabulary became, and at some point, I’d say, it became like second nature.
Japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn. I work with Japanese corporate people who tell me they often don't understand what their colleagues are saying. Many of the people I associate with, when I ask them to define something they just shrug.
@@na_haynes I agree, though for me the 'talking' part isn't something I can talk about yet. I'm still at the beginning of my studies, but coming from a language with a simple alphabet, I know that it will pose quite the challenge to memorise all the different kanji. The good thing is, that I have things that keep me motivated, and so, I'm sure I'll figure this language out in time.
@@LAchicktravels Yeah, I get that. It's my first time learning a language on my own. In school you have a timetable, and you basically rush through everything. Having the chance to do things on my own, I hardly challenge or stress myself. I'm not entirely sure which way is better, but I prefer my stress-free plan for now. I'm sure, that especially remembering all the kanji will pose a challenge in the future, but we'll see.
I started learning Japanese when I went to Japan & lived there for 3 years, learning Aikido in a Japanese dojo and teaching English to earn a living. I never took any formal Japanese lessons, but I had a basic textbook, and a weekly exchange "lesson" with a Japanese friend. (Fortunately, we were both self-directed learners, and each used our own lesson time in our own way.) In the beginning I refused to learn the Japanese scripts - but that changed when I noticed that travelling outside the city area, I needed to be able to recognise place names written in kanji. Eventually I decided to learn the katakana & hiragana scripts - which are usually the beginning of formal Japanese lessons. (My son, 12 years old & at an international school, was not as lucky in his Japanese language instruction.) I was very motivated to learn to communicate with my fellow Aikido students, and it was easy to pick up the simple instructions that were most important! ...However, I very much doubt that my "first 100 words" would have been on anyone else's list... In learning an actual language to talk to real people, there are all sorts of filler phrases that never make the textbooks but are incredibly important in signalling that you are about to say something. That is where having access to a friendly native speaker is really helpful! After 3 years in Japan, I was at about intermediate level, not as far advanced as the people who had been studying Japanese intensively but way more advanced than the other group who just gave up & never progressed beyond "konnichiwa". Now I have been trying to learn Spanish - and it is really hard without that immersion factor... even though Spanish is a much easier language. Anyway, good luck, have fun, and keep going!
I grew up bilingual, English and Spanish. I learned conversational French and Dutch one year when I was in Europe. Months ago I started learning New Testament Greek. I couldn't agree more about not learning basics. There are so many words and phrases that repeat themselves throughout the Bible and I've learned to easily recognize them as I study every morning, knowing little about conjugation, grammar, etc. Learning it this way makes it much more fun.
I agree! I'm Brazilian, 🇧🇷 I'm learning 6 languages at the same time! All my life I was forced to learn English with the basics, but I failed a lot! Today I use English to learn other languages! For me it's so fun and I feel like I'm learning so fast!
Syrian here who is learning Brazilian portuguese, I want to say you guys have a very nice language! Good luck on your journey, 6 languages sounds tough XD
As a professional language teacher and language learning hobbyist (and enthusiastic Lingq user!), I couldn't agree more with this. Some very important conclusions for language teaching follow upon this attitude regarding "the basics." Over the years I've seen many teachers get exasperated when their intermediate or advanced students slip up with basic vocabulary and sentence structures, and these teachers feel that they have to revert back to lessons on "the basics" that their students then find irritating and de-motivating. I always tell new teachers to avoid this. I also tell my students not to stress out over these slips. As Steve explains here, with increasingly rich input (and I would add increasing production based on that input), "the basics" eventually fall into place. You just have to keep moving with the motivating n+1 content. If teachers and students everywhere got this message, more people would be motivated to learn languages.
I have spend 8 years learning grammar rules of french and English at school, and never learned anything. Also after time and time we still returned to the basics stuff cause we just forgot them ecc... And it was a pain in the 4ss all over again. Just madness. When i start learning English i didn't really know what to do ( everyone said " just watch film " lol ) but after a while and after following good teacher like Steven i really learned a lot. Eventually i did it with french as well. Started with grammar rules and stuff, and after 1 week i quit. I started with video for children and things like that, then moved to podcast ecc.. and after 3 months i moved to France lol. What i did in 3 months with UA-cam for free, i couldn't do in 8 years with "" teachers " which should know what they are doing lol. Now I'm studying German, and is true that is hard, but still manageable to learn.
I've spent the last 40 years teaching English as a Foreign language and can say that I completely agree with this too. Unfortunately, the contrary position is widely believed both by students and supervisors. Different people have different minds, however. Those who learn a language using a memorise and master the basics method are often precisely those who turn up in the classroom because the other (more normal!) people have dropped out. They don 't like it if you change the way they are supposed to learn. In these cases I presetneded to use the 'basics' method but actually used the natural method.
Yes to a point. I learned Portuguese mostly living in Brazil. I'm extremely fluent and can express myself as comfortably as English (well almost). But as I never learned the basics I still have problems and it's a pain
Not all falls in place. Even in your mother language you are taught basic writing rules and you get grammar lesson at school. You will never get them right in a foreign language either by just waiting that “all falls in place”. I know what I am talking about - I haven’t taught languages but learnt them … This all doesn’t mean that it’s wrong what is said here. Just just need both. And time, time, time. The biggest error is to assume that learning a language is easy and can be achieved “on the fly”. That works - best case - if you are in the country immersed with native speakers. Still I doubt it will work for a completely remote language (like Chinese for me).
@@alexandermenck6609 My generation were never taught English grammar at school. Those who were fully literate had no problem with it. Students of other languages who are taught their own grammar in school do not seem to benefit from it. I'm inclined to think that time spent learning the grammar of one's own language is much better pent reading a book.
Great analysis. I spent 6 years ( including 3 years in university) to become decent in German. In contrast, about 18 months to acquire the same level in Russian. Russian I ‘‘studied’ for for 2 weeks to get oriented and then watched UA-cam videos of pre school stories, kids cartoons, then read teen books, read books, set my Facebook , etc settings to Russian. An hour and a half or so a day but it wasn’t ‘work’ but just part of day to day living. Proper grammar, verb tenses is more of a breeze ‘after’ exposure to thr language and, to be honest, even then have no ‘need’ to be that proficient in writing Russian…it ‘comes together’ using language caps whrn I post on Russian language forums.
Russia has some of the most beautiful literature in the world. There’s a rich and deep meaning you get from it which you cannot get from English or any language in the world besides Russian itself. If you’re curious about Russian literature I’d recommend; Anna Akhmatova, Leo Tolstoy, and Fyodor Dostoevsky.
Nice to hear this. I am currently learning my 5th language, Greek, at age 67. I learnt French in school over 5 years then lived in Belgium and France for a total of 5 years. My first wife was also French which helped and so my French became pretty good. I moved to northern Switzerland where I went to night school for a semester to learn German and learned absolute basics but a) I was hearing Swiss German dialect during the daytime in my job and b) learned the rest of my German at work or in the street and later with my wife. Now after 30 years it's not bad. I went to night school for 2 or 3 semesters to learn Italian so I could talk with my father-in-law a) but they explained the grammar in terms of German so that didn't help me much. However because of my strong French I could fill in many gaps and understand and speak well enough for my needs. I am now learning modern Greek in German and the grammar explanations relate to German grammar which I still really don't know well, so it's uphill work. But although I don't know the basics very well, I feel they will fall into place as soon as I can understand more and speak more. So I'm not too worried - because at my age I know that people will probably understand what I want to say, even if it's not correct. The best way would probably to get a live-in Greek girlfriend but I don't think my wife would be too keen! 🙂 *Bottom line: I agree with Steve - get familiar with some basics but move on. They'll fall into place when you get more practice and experience listening and speaking* All the best, Rob in Switzerland
The last sentence of the video really hit the nail on the head: "Don't focus on the basics; focus on enjoying the language". The late great laoshu505000 did just that; he focused on memorizing phrases at first and would then study grammar later. I've done the same with Hebrew, and it's really helped me not get bogged down with the grammatical complexities of the language. I find that tackling difficult grammatical concepts isn't such a slog if you already have a bunch of words and phrases under your belt, derived from courses and/or natural input like movies/books/music in the language. Public school Spanish classes really killed the language by beating us over the head with too much explicit grammatical instruction.
I can't thank enough UA-cam for all contents I watched all these years. I improved my english following the rules said here, i'm studying other three languages( french, spanish and german). Thankyou Sir❤️ I love UA-cam's world. I learned to cook, to dance, I've listened audiobooks and podcasts, I begun to meditate and say the affirmations....I just grow so much day by day. I could go on and on... I'm so grateful!!! Thank you ...Danke ...Grazie ...Gracias ...Merci ...
Such good advice! The "basics" you need to learn are the rhythm, melody and meaning of tones. This is what animals and little kids use to understand messages coming from adults. Immerse, immerse, immerse. Be sure you're immersing yourself in conversation with people who speak well. Let them know you're trying to absorb the language, not so they'll correct you, but so they'll be careful how they speak.
*_This is most helpful!_* Learning a language immersed in that society has been difficult for me because my wife speaks 90-95% perfect English and rarely attempts her own language with me. I'm still more fluent with the Spanish I learned some half century ago! In fact, most every citizen here in the Philippines learns English as a 2nd or 3rd language because it is used in all legal documents.
Great video. Learning a language is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle, rather than constructing a building. With a building, the order is extremely important, whereas with a puzzle the whole thing is worked at the same time. Some areas are easier and some are harder. Tackling the easier areas first makes sense, and makes the harder areas more manageable... but it would be absurd to say that you *ought* to complete a given area before moving on to the next.
@@rayflaherty3441 I agree - you need a foundation in order to make progress. I would definitely say study the basics - it's the idea that you have to master the basics before moving on that I think is the problem. Language isn't math, you don't need to progress sequentially. As Steve points out, plenty of people speak English very well without having mastered the third person singular verb conjugation. They didn't need it in order to move forward.
@@ctnt3126 "you need a foundation in order to make progress" so it's not like a jigsaw puzzle then? Also, I think not studying pronunciation and the alphabet in the very beginning is a recipe for disaster regarding pronunciation; do it at your own risk.
For my journey studying language outside of school and in an environment of full immersion, starting out with grammar and vocab basics on my own yielded little progress I would either forget things easily or not understand due to lack of context. Learning from a teacher gave me a better foundation for 'the basics' because he taught me things that were actually useful, and taught me how to go about learning from others(i.e. how to ask questions). Now as a more experienced speaker and user of the language, coming back to the grammar basics has helped me sharpen my skills and reinforce proper usage.
Different people might have different learning styles. I find it easier to learn grammar as well as I can, and add vocabulary as I go along. I found it immensely frustrating that my Japanese teachers not only seldom would teach the grammar - at times they did not even know it. For learning the kanji characters: they never told us that there were basic components which would recur over a wide range of kanji. Instead, we were instructed to learn the stroke order, though it is easier just to recognize and assemble known components. If you know the common components, you at least have a chance at guessing the meaning of an unknown character.
True. An analytical person can learn a language amazingly fast through grammar. To naturally learn a language as we do our mother tongue takes years of direct exposure.
That is probably because the process of learning a language includes a huge part of personal observing, attempting to build the logic and associations. Some people, like me, for example, prefer to see the whole picture before picking out the details. But many others just love obtaining new skills, or information mechanically, because there isn't enough time to think of the rules while the process of speaking, and that's why it may seem useless to spend a lot of time to learn the theory by heart instead of getting hands-on experience right away. But in my humble opinion, it's worth to understand the rule once and get the logic, and you'll be able to recall any rule again from the examples. Win-win. And teachers exist to guide you, so just don't hesitate to ask them your tricky questions :) Who knows, this may open completely new ways of explanation and study one day.
That was probably because that was the way that they learned it (as native speakers, which I assume that you are not). It's a tradition thing. So, they figured that if it was good enough for them, it was good enough for you. What they don't realize is that some flexibility is needed, and that there are multiple strategies that can and could come into play in learning any language, depending on how that language is structured. Incidentally, I saw a video a while back in which a guy interviewed and tested Japanese people on the street about their knowledge of the Kanji. A LOT of them didn't even know what they meant! Many just guessed (always wrong). The average Japanese person's knowledge of Kanji is probably not that great. That says something about their teaching methods and the weaknesses involved, does it not?
@@tabletalk33 I had suffered from the scientifically unsound contention that the best way to learn a foreign language, is gone child-like. A problem with that, is that adult brains do not functionally much resemble those of infants. In the course of developing into adulthood, the brain reconfigures itself. Expecting a mind to perform well with developmentally obsolete tools, might not yield optimal results.
@@philipb2134Excellent points! Yes, that is why a baby learns NATURALLY as he is growing and maturing while surrounded by loved ones and neighbors. Adults are no longer involved in that process. Thus, they need many artificial aids and helps to take the place of the family/neighborhood environment in order to jump start them in their learning process. That's an ARTIFICIAL method of learning, and it's not nearly as effective as the natural one.
Great points, Steve! Im learning Polish and I have been stuck with this fantasy of acquiring "the basics" of Polish before I learn something new, but I end up beating myself up all the time because I realize that its too complicated for my Norwegian ear to grasp "all the basics" without making mistakes! I think I gotta continue to learn new words and stop caring too much about making it perfect or Im not getting anywhere
I'm all for studying the basics. You won't learn it all at once, but if you know the idea of how to conjugate a verb it's easier to understand what you're practicing, so it becomes faster to internalize the patterns. I also recommend watching videos and reading books in your target language to see how the language is used, and practicing with a native speaker is a bonus if you can.
There are some "basics" or patterns that require attention. I am studying Turkish (just for fun) right now. Of course I didn't know anything about how they conjugated their verbs in the beginning. So, I had to give that a look before I advanced. I couldn't very well learn them accurately just by watching tv shows! I had to stop and look them up in books and/or watch language videos or internet websites with the information listed, and then practice them a little. Then I went back to my tv shows and understood the conversation just a little better than I had before. The progress is slow but steady. That's about the best I can do.
The actual argument he gives doesn't support not learning the basics, it supports the weaker suggestion not to think you have to have all the basics perfectly ingrained before moving on
I agree with you. With languages such as Farsi or Arabic, it is crucial to learn verb conjugations as they determine the tense you wish to speak in, just like any other language. There are a few core principles which must be fully understood to speak any language such as knowledge of verbs, nouns, prepositions, and a few transitives. Without these a sentence is incomprehensible.
@@Abdullah_Obaid_Ullahyeah, there are essential "basics" which you should learn even if you're gonna learn by immersion and don't care much about grammar, I don't understand how some learners don't see you should have both theory and practice to learn a language well, you just should find your way of doing both things in proportions that are good for you and your goal
Such wisdom. What you're actually saying is that you can trust the force of the language in terms of other people using the language that will guide you 'en masse' as it were to conform yourself to it - much like a road with no signage or markings, if many cars are together on that road, they accommodate one another in more or less a natural go with the flow way. Its about harmonising within extant usage and allowing it to shape you. This is how babies learn, and its about really concertedly taking the language in (as if your life depended on it).
I love your videos and get a lot out of them. I joined the LingQ community a couple of weeks ago. It blows my mind how people can master more than two languages.
This is awesome. Everyone goes at their own pace, from different angles, and no one ever speaks the same "English" or "Spanish", etc. That's how dialects form. You speak based on the things you need to communicate. With necessity comes communication. It's a journey where you encounter the same characters in different places, like the Wizard of Oz!
Certainly a lot of things are right. However, it’s also a simplification. It works in total immersion e.g. when you move to the country of the language. “At home” it is difficult to get the necessary level of immersion. It sounds easy to “learn as a child” but children take - almost literally - ages to master a language. And they are fully immersed expressing a lot of frustration very loudly when they do not succeed. Adults usually cannot…
Adults can't learn like children. We need to learn the grammar in order to understand it, otherwise we take ages trying to understand why words are different in each case we encounter. It's much more efficient for an adult just to learn the rules
I could not agree more! I am a professional language teacher and have had to use mixed bag of methods and my conclusion is that there is NO perfect approach to teaching/learning a language when you are "at home". The amount of time you ARE NOT IMMERSED in the target language and culture is a major component to take in consideration. I have had all types of students, mostly adults, and some are more intuitive and adventurous. others can only advance when they feel safe and sure; some have time to study by themselves and some can barely have a one session per week. So I really think having the knowledge of different methods and using them as needed is the best approach. By the way, I learned English the other way around - I enrolled in an ELS course in New York and studied there for six months. After these six months, I enrolled in a undergraduate course at Wagner College for six more months and the rest is history. However this is not a reality for the majority of ELS learners. I have also had the experience of studying Egyptian Arabic at home and believe me, I have this experience as a good understanding of what my students go through.
@@olaf2627 Yes and no. I have spent four years in a workplace with lots of foreigners coming over to Germany for a limited time, a lot of them trying to pick up the language on the side. A reoccuring theme was their frustation with all the irregularities. Learning the rules is just a place to start from. I still remember chatting with this French lady about studying for her B1 exam with the Goethe Institute. She was talking grammar rules I had never heard of (despite being able to apply them correctly), and I was a pretty good student back in my high school days. And this was just B1. They also have an A level...
Wholeheartedly agree! Many school systems mistake actually "teaching/learning " a language with "studying its rules as a scientific topic" at a university. - With the result of sheer frustration for many students, like me 30 years ago.
I agree with what you are saying here ,as a native English speaker living in Hungary. Hungarian is quite difficult for English speakers..but I follow the policy of giving it a go and trying to memorise the common words as I come across them without getting too hung up over the grammar. It’s a slow process but gradually it seems to bear fruit .
I am trying to learn Arabic at the moment to move to Saudi Arabia, it's a slow process but I think the key is that I really like the language and the way it sounds, which has helped me to improve noticeably.
What a great video! Speaking 4 different languages, after watching this video I understand better why it took me so long to learn 2 of them. Also noticing my twin daughters, 4.5 years old, speaking fluently 4 languages makes me agree with the approach that Steve proposes in this video a lot! Finally, it encourages me to keep teaching my students Greek in an immersive way, which I love. Don't be afraid to listen and speak! This is our natural way of being, learning, and expressing ourselves!
When I was in school (in Finland) we always just studied basics. It was top most important thing to do basics right. Now when I am older I wish I was taught to just try speaking it and ignore small errors. Because small errors do not matter in your everyday life. Other people are going to understand you anyway. It's enough that you can get those words out of your mouth.
I'm strongly tempted to agree with you, but I'm wondering how you define "basics" and "small errors." Most people think "basics" involves the easy stuff, and while that might be true for the native speaker, it might NOT be at all true for the 2nd language learner! As for "small errors," that depends on how you define that as well and whether it blocks clear communication or not. In some cases, it may be of little importance, as you say. In other cases, a subtle mishap may result in a major misunderstanding.
Thank you for the advice. This is very encouraging. I tend to overthink and overanalyze verb conjugations and it has stopped me from taking initiative in speaking French. I will try to speak without worry about mistakes. Eventually, if I hear enough people around, I will naturally correct myself.
I am a non-native ESL teacher and Intermediate French speaker, and I can agree with this strategy for myself and for most of my adult students, as well as for most of kids. However, there are some of my both adult and kids students, who are desperately incapable of noticing language patterns with whatever material you give them. They're just waiting for the teacher to give them certain grammar and vocabulary to learn. And only after they're familiar with all the vocabulary and grammar, after they've learnt it by heart, they can watch or read something with this grammar or vocabulary, because now they're not afraid of it. I believe, it might be the Soviet Union heritage, but that's a fatal fear of anything unknown and a fear of independent action which doesn't let such people learn naturally.
В общем, главное в этом посте- обгадить советское наследие, умудрившись сделать это даже при описании методов изучения иностранных языков. Возьми с полки пирожок.
Thank you for this video Steve! I'm currently learning Spanish and I've noticed that I don't really like to study the basics in the work book that I have because I don't retain much but when I'm actively listening to music or actively engaged in the language somehow like *changing my language on my phone to spanish.* *Listening to spanish podcasts/music* I feel as though I retain more. One habit I'm currently doing is purposely trying to incorporate the spanish language into my life. What I don't know now, I will eventually know. Also, it will help me to better understand how I learn things.
I've followed Steve and the LingQ project for years, had it not been for LingQ, I wouldn't have passed a C2 test with confidence and every one of his insights can save you years, LingQ is just the beginning. Besides from that, when one starts learning a new language, it's very easy to fall on the trap of "mastering the basics" because you come from this place either in your own mother language or a language that you recently mastered/got to be fluent in and you somehow buy into this illusion of hyperfocusing in details. As Steve has said in other videos: "with enough exposure, the language is the teacher".
So helpful! I love this more fluid approach to learning a language. It helps with letting go of the often-times frustrating 'basic' errors and focusing instead on listening/reading lots, enjoying the journey of learning and trusting that the basics will sort themselves out in time.
Good video. I personally believe it’s a combination of both….not 100% mastering the basics and not 100% obtained from input initially. Before reading (depending on the language), you may need to learn it’s alphabet or script…..otherwise you will probably not be able to read the language….also, if you don’t know at least basic grammar it will be very hard to consume input…even after basic grammar it will be hard initially…but I think it would be just a bit less hard…..doesn’t have to be particularly a different forms of a verb…but just basic enough grammar…to maybe at least recognize the dictionary form of the verb so it can be, for example, found in a dictionary…things like that….in my opinion help a lot…..
I love this video! True to this story, I also struggled to learn most of the basics. I remember being stuck with the "I am, you are" etc table and the teacher having me stay on that chapter till I learned it. I eventually got it on a certain level and continued to take lessons till I was 13 years old and took my exams for the B2 level (barely passed). I was one of the worst students in my class and stopped the lessons altogether afterwards. Fast forward 7 years and having read a lot of books in English (I had to because the sequels of my favourite series hadn't been translated in my native language yet). I somehow became one of the most naturally speaking English people in my group of friends and peers. I didn't even put any effort into the learning process. I just acquired it. I didn't even know the grammar I was using (I still don't 🤣). I was just using it. For example, I remember I had always struggled with the difference between "through, thought, though, throughout, tough". I couldn't write them, I couldn't understand the meaning of the words if I ever saw them. But when I started reading books, the words were always in context! And that really made all the difference.
Often context matters more than the actual words that are spoken or written. If I stand up in a crowded restaurant, look around anxiously and then say "Aidfggh Xerophad kmaizee?" to a waiter he will probably point to the Men's Room.
Lingq exploded my romanian reading comprehension but i realised too late that i was not developing my listening or vocal abilities. To the point that the romanians i work with pull faces when i speak. I have started learning arabic now using lingq to shadow each line as i learn it. Only now do i realise that half using lingq (only reading) is so restricting. Love the software, love the channel.
Interesting point of view. As English teacher I try to combine both options, showing the "basics" and doing more natural exercises, like conversations, reading comprenhension...
"Focus on enjoying the language" ABSOLUTELY! Higher levels of learning happen when we are enjoying whatever it is, being curious and to a lesser extent being a little frustrated (developing the desire to know more). Wonderful presentation.
I agree absolutely! I’ve just finished my Krashen’s Five Hypotheses in multi-classroom participatory research in a primary school in Phitsanulok, Thailand. The kids learn English as a foreign language, as well as integrating in Math & Science as much as possible, from Thai teachers who speak English well enough. I introduce Japanese as L3, as special activity that focus on enjoying the language. The kids are in Grades 4,5,6 a total of 151 students. The are able to acquire Japanese language at the 3rd level (begin to speak & write Japanese by themselves). I’m Thai, literate in English & Japanese with most Loatian dialects. Used to teach English in primary school & experienced teaching beginner Japanese through natural approach. I believe that SLA Theory should be very useful to Thailand’s foreign language education.
The stages of foreign language learning are : acquaintance, practice and immersion. They can be done simultaneously. It is not easy, but watching subtitled movies is a great way of immersion. 😁Cheers ☺️
I'm a native English speaker learning French and this video makes a lot of sense to me. I have had many tutors all of whom correct my mistakes, either during the class or via an email after the class. The latter is a better idea as I can browse through them later and try to take note of them. But as Steve says I go on making the same mistakes again and again. So this focus on basic mistakes is largely a waste of time. None of my tutors have ever told me this, I presume its because they don't know any better. Before I take on a new tutor I now plan to ascertain their attitude to this concept. It should make for an interesting conversation.
Well if your tutor never points them out, they may never get fixed. I also make basic mistakes in French (eg. not agreeing adjectives with nouns), and continue to make them. However since my tutor has highlighted them, their frequency has decreased and sometimes I manage to correct myself before speaking. So I still think feedback is important and if feedback has no effect, you should think about how you are taking it onboard.
I think you're right. Personally, I've always been very good at the "basics" and was usually at the top of the class in my college language courses since that's what they tested for. But when it comes to actually having real life conversations, I'm terrible!
Dear Sir, I agree witht he theory of Natural order of the language acquisition on condition that there is plenty of time. yet adults forced to learn a language in no time, usually specialists sent worldwide with minimum notice, it wońt work in my humble opinion. Just one more argument, there are levels of language proficiencies that involvwe knoledge of established patterns and word power , which is mandatory and technicalities are known for precision of speech. Anyway, a good idea for those being afraid of making mistakes while speaking! Best regards. Paul, 67, retired teacher international students.
Hi Steve.Thanks for the motivational talk!I keep struggling with a German language,even after almost 3 years living in Austria.I keep watching your videos for motivation.
I speak fluent Japanese, which I learned in a traditional undergrad classroom that focused on the basics first, as usual. What ended up helping me really get good was watching subtitled anime for years, thanks to hearing the language spoken naturally in it, but the formal instruction was needed so I could differentiate between legit speech and exaggerated anime speech. There's merit to the basics, it just doesn't have to be the core element of learning is all.
Agree, it's also good for some basic vocabulary acquisition, comprehension and if you watch the right shows, especially non-anime shows, pronunciation and pitch accent.
I wholeheartedly concur your words. I find, this is one of the significant concepts every language learner has to understand in order to level up their language skills. I feel sometimes it (Mastering basics) hinders me to go further too, because the feeling of incompleteness sucks my energy. And I always remember this quote that says, "Success is not the key to Happiness ; Happiness is the key to Success". Thank you for making videos frequently ☺ Happy language learning grandpa!
Good advice. On the other hand, this is a choose your own adventure experience. For 16 months I worked on Russian mostly through reading and listening. Right now I’m in a university intensive course learning the nuts and bolts of virtually all Russian grammar in eight weeks, because as our instructor keeps saying: (1) you won’t understand this any better by dribbling it out for years and (2) you’ll encounter all the grammar all the time. Suddenly I can write and speak as never before, and I have gained only minimal new vocabulary in this course. But: I now know better than ever the tools that were missing to use the words I had been learning. As I return home, I’ll return to listening, reading, recognizing the grammar that was lost to me before - and gradually mastering those patterns in a natural way just as Steve said. There are no mutually exclusive methods. Choose your own adventure.
Mr. Kaufmann. Good to see you're doing well. I watched a few of your videos over 10 years ago when I started learning English and now my English flucency is near native like. Just so you know you're changing the world out there, sir.
This is how I actually started learning Ukrainian. I was initially too caught up on the proper grammar but as soon as I started to just try to read, listen and speak it started to come together. I'm still far from fluent but I can hold a basic conversation.
Exactly my experience! I am ignoring studying the grammar until I really need to. Have spent nearly three months just listening and reading and preparing to have my first conversation with a native speaker in the next few weeks.
@@MarynaPoberezhna Дякую це дуже приємно. Я народився в Запоріжжі але емігрував коли був дитиною. Я знав тільки російську мову. Чекаю перемоги. Дуже хотілося би повернутися до рідного міста.
The app I use to learn languages -> bit.ly/3XJvPyA My 10 FREE secrets to language learning -> www.thelinguist.com What do you think about this idea of “mastering the basics of a language”?
I spent years attempting to learn languages and failing because of becoming annoyed about struggling with the basics. Often having teachers and friends saying that I could not progress until I mastered these basics. I stumbled across your videos early last year and started using LingQ since you made it available for those learning Ukrainian. I have to say it is such an amazing app. I have found a tutor who supports the natural acquisition of the language and points out mistakes (if frequent) but ultimately allows me to progress understanding that over time I will improve. I started paying for LingQ to restart my journey learning spanish too and I am having so much fun. Thanks so much Steve :))
Thank you. Actually, overthinking about grammar rules has prevented me from speaking English in many situations and made me feel embarrassed about making mistakes. Your words in this video will help me overcome this problem in my attempt to speak English, increase my confidence, and enhance my language proficiency through reading and listening as you advised in this video. Thank you so much.
Hi dear Steve Kauffman, let me tell you that you're a wise man, an outstanding polyglot and an inspiring person 🥰 because you continue to inspire me as well as plenty of people or users for learning languages. After watching this helpful video, I shouldn't try remembering or looking over the basics of the language (English in this case) but I have to say that acquiring basic grammatical patterns is crucial to maintain a simple conversation whether it is short or long. But after all, your advice is obviously important at least for me. It's just a matter of enjoying the language learning journey as you said. This takes a long time because learning any language is a long-term commitment of course. It's widely common for anyone from around the world picking up English as the second language to learn and change our lives. I grew up in a monolingual family, you know, my whole monolingual environment is boring and therefore the outlook is kinda discouraging for me but I have to move on and I heartily hope to get out of my comfort zone. I would love to have an English-speaking person to practice my English with, and I hope it comes as soon as possible.
From your comment it seems to me that your knowledge of English is at a very high level and your written English is close to perfect. I agree with your sentiments regarding learning the basics, I think rather than "Don't study the basics" it should be something such as "Study the basics but don't get stuck on them, progress by using the language in its many forms and don't worry about making mistakes". However, that wouldn't make a good title for a UA-cam video. 🙂
In fact now I do learning French, I learn it by two different languages, exactly English and Spanish, two different orders indeed. It really helps me to learn French really fast. I will keep on learning different languages using different languages orders to learn. In fact my mother tongue is Chinese, but I use the English order to teach a kid Chinese, who is an English speaker, and which is super effective. For example: 爐火純青, I teach him “stove, fire, pure, light green”, put a sword on the stove to burn until light green, which means really familiar with something.
Having learned French, German & Spanish to various levels - I'd say that you must have some core knowledge of the language to get started - then you have that core to draw on when you step out & try to use it for real - without that you'd be lost - at least I would Having said that - the core doesn't have to be large - just enough to get going - trying to use the language is a great teacher - main tip there - try to communicate & expect to make errors - you'll get feedback & get further faster.
Good comment. So basically yes you DO need to "learn the basics" in some capacity. Not all of us are lucky enough to have native speakers constantly correcting us (like we did with our native language).
To me 'natural order' starts at the very beginning: the first things infants do when learning to speak is hone their ear and speech to phonetics. I've found it very helpful to study the IPA and the relative phonology of the language I am learning (I like going between a few). I couldn't even grasp anything in many of the Asian languages until I took the time to understand the sounds, to then understand the letters, to the morphemes, to the words, and eventually sentences. It doesn't matter what my mind can parse if the interpretation is stops at my ears. Maybe it's not reasonable to teach that to students in public school, yet it would be so much more useful to me now than the few years of German and French that I have completely forgotten.
Conjugation is important in understanding different dialects Some have formal and familiar forms and when to apply them Exposure to language naturally occurs in your method Seeing the written word helps to learn the proper pronunciation and shows the education of an individual Proper language keeps the language alive
Great video! While I'm Indian, my first language is English, and when I moved back to India from abroad, I had to learn the local language, Kannada, to get around. My language acquisition was just like how you said. I heard people speak for a couple years and imitated it, got ridiculed sometimes too, but eventually, I attained moderate fluency, and I can now read (although my vocabulary is very small and I can't understand many words). Like you said, I couldn't learn the basics. I was thrown into the advanced level right off the bat, and it actually really helps.
What do you mean by the basics? It could mean a lot of different things. Learning daily language could be considered the basics, but being able to do so well is incredibly useful. Getting ahead of yourself and studying something way above your level is a quick way to burnout -- like reading a text you only know half the words for. I think it might be better to say don't get caught up in small details. Just keep going and you'll get better at them.
Great video. Agreed, but not by consciously ignoring learning them when necessary at various points in time as we go along. Meanwhile it has to be said the basics of many or the majority of languages can be studied and got familiarised with in a matter of days. So no harm in going over them let say by reading a book picking up whatever one can and then putting the book back on the shelf, perhaps referring to it occasionally later when needed.
Can only agree. From my own experience of learning German (in Germany) as a native English speaker. In the early stages I did take a free language course but actually, although some things did stick in my memory, most of the grammar completely overwhelmed me and I had the feeling too much information was actually holding me back. At this time I also cut off nearly all ties with British expats, and made the conscious decision to learn the new language very much as a baby would. I should point out that I was in my late twenties at the time. In my school years I had to study French, and for various reasons I was absolutely terrible, they said it was a waste of time and money me even attempting an O level, although I had a few years previously without difficulty passed the Oxford/Cambridge University English entrance exam. (Sounds impressive, but all the kids in my Grammar school took it and everyone passed, regardless. Not a big deal. I also had spent time previously in Spain, mostly 2 to 3 months at a time, and had noticed I felt 'comfortable' with the language, picking up on the rhythm of the spoken language, and while very little understanding of the grammar, I had subconsciously picked up an relatively extensive vocabulary and was confident enough to attempt to communicate. And all the time due to my school experience in French, I was completely convinced that learning foreign languages was beyond me. To cut a long story short, I'm still living in Germany after 50 years, can speak fluently, I complete daily a German crossword in the local newspaper, I can normally pick out most of the German and Austrian dialects, (can even imitate some of the easier ones), occasionally attempt (via UA-cam) to improve my grammar, but I never put myself under pressure, and only learn new grammar topics when I feel I've mastered what I've learnt and can can use it intuitively, meaning without thinking. Oh, I should mention that in my initial years in Germany ( West Berlin) it took me about 5 years before I trusted myself, without feeling very self conscious, to actually string a sentence together, actually nearly all my German friends were happy to be improving their English at my expense. But once I did start, and if course I was told often I was making mistakes, I never reverted back to speaking English. Later my parents told me I was speaking English with a German accent. Can you believe.
I totally agree. I am a language teacher and because a love learning languages, I communicate it by just enjoying and having fun with it. Immersion by listening, singing, and just saying it, and have fun with it.
Looking back at my journey of English learning as a non-native speaker, I can't agree more with Steve. It's very true that while the basics are important, what is more important is actually Using the Language as much as possible as you go! Speak it, listen to it, and write it... MORE! That's the key and the ONLY way to get better at picking up a new language and there is no other secret to it! How I wish to have an English teacher like Steve back in my school days who is so realistic and practical on the learning process, and I can't believe that I haven't subscribed to this great teacher yet (and just done so!). Those bad teachers in the school should just be fired right away!
During my study of English in school I had to learn almost only grammar and paradigmas of forming sentences. I truly began to learn English when I began to read magazines and books written in English without worring too much about grammatics.
I just stumbled upon this video, and I found it fascinating. This is the way I have been teaching myself, and I kept thinking I was going about it all wrong. I learned some French vocabulary and pronunciation. I then started to watch some French language TV shows, and very quickly I was able to recognize some words and phrases. Before long I was able to stitch a few words together and make some sense of it. Long way to go, but I feel better about my approach after seeing this video. Thanks Steve!
I’m doing exactly the same regarding French and have made more progress by myself in 2 weeks than in the year I took French at school. I can make simple sentences but what’s more important is that I got used to the sound and pace of language and I’m starting to replicate it.
I partially agree. For second language acquisition we use a different part of our brains so more conscious effort is required. In this case language learning skill becomes a factor. Some people are better than others. Things won't fall into place on their own without actively correcting mistakes. If you are aiming for comprehension in conversation then I see your point, as long as you can understand others and you get the gist of things it's fine. The thing is people don't learn language that way. People can live in a country for years and pick up very little. I don't enjoy imitating a phrase if I don't know where it comes from and what it really means. I admit that's a separate interest in languages per se, but without some kind of ladder to climb people lose interest. Just showing up and absorbing through osmosis works for young children because our brains are primed to receive it, but when we are older it's different. For Portuguese I have taken no classes and I can read and understand it well enough because of my girlfriend, so I totally skipped the basics with that one, but with Japanese I had to really deep dive to even be able to form sentences properly. I'm on both sides I suppose
Very smart,will read again,like the piece about, people who have lived in a different language country for years but have not progressed in language, it highlights the importance of effort,belief ,encouragement and motivation and I think you can add environment to that as well👍
Good points. There's a very big difference between child language acquisition and adult 2nd language acquisition. In the latter, to get really good at it requires at least some formal study. No way around that.
I agree. I've been teaching foreign language to adults for the past 13 years. I can clearly separate every class into "book learners" and "learn by ear" students right away, on the first day. I have to combine techniques in order to teach both types of students.
@@tabletalk33i don't know man. I'm 17 now but i learned english solely by consuming media. Im from iran and therefore a native persian speaker. I was around 13 when I started to pay attention at what character and people said in English in video games i played and shows i watched. I wasn't exactly a child yet i managed to learn English without studying anything. I think it just comes down to yourself. Im learning russian too, by their consuming media.
I use frequency lists if available to narrow down to the words you MUST know in a foreign language. While it is true that the common words may show up anyway, oddities can arise, depending on what texts you encounter. For example in learning German I naturally learned Gesicht ("face") quite early but it was not long after that I encountered Antlitz, which means the same thing but is poetic and literary, and found in a work of 19th century literature. But Gesicht is a lot more useful to learn.
Foreign language learning is compelled to adopt the habit of enthusiasm to the concerned language.Thanks Steve for your valuable message related to language learning.🎉❤
This might be true for most people but not for everybody. I personally suck at immersion, I have to _know_ the basics, especially grammar, to remember and especially use a language. Right now I'm learning Slovak and encountered the phrases for 'How do you do?' (Ako sa maš?) and just couldn't remember it. Only when I deconstructed it and found out that the individual words meant 'How yourself make you?" I remembered it. But I still have to construct it in my mind from time to time. So, shout out to people who can do all this natural learning but that there are other people who need the guidelines of grammar and rules ; )
I think the key is to not get stuck on trying to learn everything "perfectly", because eve as a native English speaker, the chances are most people you talk to can't tell you how the grammar works and aren't perfect in their speaking, writing, etc... No one has a perfect grasp on anything, especially language. I am a perfectionist studying Mandarin, so I kind of understand the points hes making. Sometimes we get way too caught up trying to make sure everything is perfect. Study the basics in the shallow end, but dive into the deep in every once in a while and try to use your skills to swim.
This would be the longest way of learning for me. I would try to learn this phrase by trying to remember the sequence of first letters of words - a s m.
He isn't saying to disregard the basics, only to beaware not to trip over them. As in your case, they can be a valuable tool, but its only one of the tools, even if its youre most comfortable.
Thank you for all your replies. Of course I'm also trying to get comfortable with the language. Vienna is close to Slovakia so I can switch on Slovak radio and listen to it - and I'm always very happy when I understand a word or two ; ) But grammar and vocabulary are my path, my ladder. Anyway, it's fun so I started a channel about my experience learning Slovak. If you're interested here's the link: ua-cam.com/video/CiYqr9nfvrk/v-deo.html
The most successful way to learn a language is to immerse yourself into it where you have no choice but to use what you know, and ask lots of question about what you don't. Like everything else, it's a question of degree of practice.
learn something you really like in the language you want to learn, that is how I improved my English, I just wanted to learn computer programming by myself, but most of the resources are written in English language and most of the video lessons are in English language, so to learn computer programming I had to follow those resources, I always focused on computer programming not on English, but eventually without noticing my English has been improved, I know that there are some many mistakes in my English but they will be fine. this is my experience and I hope this may help to somebody, thanks.
If you want to learn a language you need to practice : speaking , reading , listening. If you want learn efficently , learn the basics. Basics are not enough but practicing without basics is a pain.
This! In most languages it's much more efficient to learn the basics in tandem with high exposure to native language content. English imo is not a very good example precisely bc its basics compared to any other language are very... well.. basic! 😁 True, whether it's "he goes" or "he go" IS inconsequential but only because none of the other persons require a (differently) conjugated verb. I'm learning Finnish now and I am experiencing in real time how learning new grammar helps me improve my understanding and speaking from week to week. W/o that it's just total chaos, and being exposed to language that is levels beyond my skills and comprehension is overwhelming, frustrating, demotivating and physically exhausting. I'd much rather learn those basics than have to constantly struggle with my lack of knowledge and the resulting inefficiency.
I remember taking French lessons and being really put off by the way the teacher was teaching the basics. It was more like a maths lesson than a language lesson. The same in Chinese. It can really put one off learning a language. I met a Chinese girl who had never been out of China and both her English and her accent were great. I asked her where she studied and which country she had been to. She told me she hadn't studied, had never left China and only learned English by watching the TV show called Friends using her computer.
@@khuntasaurus88 The interesting thing is, I met a second girl in Beijing who had done the exact same thing. One note of interest, there is a cafe in Beijing which is based on the cafe in the Friends TV series, it looks exactly like it. They had a large screen running the various Friends shows on a loop so people could drink or eat and watch it. I used to work in the same building, although my favourite cafe was in a different building across the street from this one which showed a different film every night usually in English but sometimes other foreign films too. It was free. No hard back chairs, comfortable sofas in front of tables with soft lamp lighting. All of the regulars were Chinese except for me, it was like a little club. That cafe and that area (nearby The Place) was my favourite place in Beijing. It even inspired me to write a fictional story based on it.
I like the concept. The problem is the definition of what the basics are. The rules of grammar are not the basics. They are advanced. And when you speak by rules you are inherently forcing translation as the language approach rather than spontaneous utterance. If you want basics just look at language progression in native speaking children. When the learner duplicates the errors that are expected (the “eated” past tense is perfect) you’ll be on to what the basics of the language really are. I’ve applied the concept of avoiding translation to teaching how to use an endoscope. The classic way is to have the student memorize which knob is up-down and which is right-left. Always a miserable experience. I now tell them the top knob is Barbies head go there there with right hand, airplane climb or dive with left thumb. I get instantly proficient assistants with less than 60 seconds of training. The concept is translation as training builds in lack of fluency, so you must avoid translation. Something worth exploring are underlying lessons from linguistics. I don’t know linguistics, but here’s something cool. In English the phrase “tic-tok-toe” is the natural order of the words. Also, the tongue touch within the mouth moves from front to back with those words. In German the articles “Der Die Das” (pronounced der dee dus (Das comes out like the dus in dusty but with an “a” tone)) are always mentioned in that order, and that obeys the front to back rule. I wouldn’t teach that as a rule, but as a teacher that sort of knowledge could inform language teaching design.
Thank you! As a nursery school teacher I’ve always thought that “natural way “ to learn is The best one. Quarelling a lot with others teachers I really appreciate your contribution, thank you thank you thank you.
I can only say thank you... your words are a salve to my broken self confidence. I now give myself permission to thoroughly enjoy my language learning journey without certain "you need to do it like this or you can't succeed" hang-ups. Subscribing as soon as I'm done typing this 😁
I have to say learning the basics especially of French and Spanish has helped me a lot to develop fluency in both languages but I have not only concentrated on that but as well on vocabulary and especially speaking practice at the same time. So I don't really agree.
Also, what is the harm in perfect the grammar and use advance or perfect vocabularies to communicate. What he said was eventually you will get it when you hear the word (10 times), yet I think that’s holding my progress back. Say if no one say a particular vocabulary to me, but I am desperate in need of a word to describe a particular meaning, god forbid me to look up the dictionary and learn the word, cuz you should not force yourself in basic, the words will come into your mind one day when someone says to you more then once.
Well, not everything works out the same for everyone. I agree that it’s a good idea to look up new words and try to learn them in context. The dictionary became my beloved sidekick since I was a child. By the same token, and in my experience now that I began studying italian two months ago, one can learn a lot faster not necessarily by putting all our energy into the basics, but rather by immersing ourselves completely a couple of hours per day. A lot of reading, a lot of listening has started to pay off for me.
@@myutwocar Learning the basics has helped me a lot especially in my initial contact with language learning at school and later on at university whether English, French or Spanish. The more recent ones ( Valencian/Catalan and Dutch ) are languages that I'm learning more by linguistin immersion ( by being surrounded ( Valencian ) or a mix of learning and improvising ( Dutch ). It works somehow, especially when your mother tongue ( German in my case ) is close. I'm basically saying learn a language by whatever works out but I don't like the dos and don'ts.
That is such a more logical advice. It is is unfair what those polyglots are doing on UA-cam. They are transforming people into totally passive learners that will search for an eternal perfect material for graded readers. Or translate full texts to say they are applying Stephen k method. When Hugo, FSI, coloquial do not use this Sk stuff and people learn a lot there.
This reminds me so much of how i've acquired English as my second language throughout my younger years. I've never understood grammatical terms that came with learning it such as verb, pronoun, adjective but somehow it felt natural due to constant immersion of English content growing up. You do pick it up and get better overtime
The problem I have with this theory about not learning basics, is that when you learn basics, just like speaking, you are learning and repeating certain words that keep showing up. Just like when you read anything else. I try not to dwell too much on grammar, but not giving it any importance seems a little silly to me. I doubt any one will ever have the best formula for teaching anything. It depends more on the students. And their engagement to commit to learning, and how well they want to learn said language.
@@micaelat3734 Not necessarily. Imo this is Pareto at work (the 80:20 thing). You can get along in a language on very little vocabulary and grammar. People that have a reason to do so will make an effort to understand you, and won't waste their time correcting small errors or alerting you of your accent when they get what you're saying. Also, you may not get every little pun and side remark in the books you read, but you can keep turning pages and follow the plot even if you realize that some lines don't make sense to you. This seriously flattens the learning curve once you get along satisfactorily unless you keep immersing yourself deeper into the language. There was a time when I thought my Engish had gotten pretty good. But when reading books I still realize sometimes that there are corners of the language where I competely lack any vocabulary, like when in the Game of Thrones novels there are bits where it goes into horse-related stuff, or when I try to read more sophisticated literature, where expressions go one or two steps above "street level".
I taught English as a foreign language for 40 years. I agree with you in general but don't forget that English grammar is exceptionally simple. I mean it is easy to get started in English. Not so even for Latin languages. The Portuguese for "go" is "ir": Eu vou; tu vas; você, o/a senhor/a, ele, ela va; nós vamos, eles/elas vão. Have I forgotten anything? So it's pretty impossible to say anything without making a fool of yourself. The Portuguese tend to be very forgiving and say, "It's alright, you can speak English with me".
I like your style. I re-familiarized myself with Irish by doing the dishes and having native speaker broadcasters playing in the background online. Passive absorption! Comprehension improved with time. Infants don't set to learn a language, they are immersed in it and so acquire it. (Some people love learning grammar, that's fine.) I'm now working on improving my French. Maith thú.
The best advice I heard is to identify the most difficult aspect of the language you're learning and then completely ignore it. In German, I don't worry about noun genders, in Spanish I don't worry about conjugation, in Mandarin I don't worry about tones, in Polish I don't worry about spelling. As long as I get my basic idea across, it's a win, and if I'm ever in a situation where I'm using these languages all the time, I'll just pick it up as I go. I'm not trying to write poetry, just buy a drink and find the bathroom!
@@EECyrpys I dunno, the random string of 5 Cs and Zs in the middle of each word was messing with me, so I switched to a different app that didn't make me spell
@@estoy_aprendiendo_espanyol I kinda agree with you, but I think commentator's idea was that you shouldn't dwell on hard elements of the language the whole time. And ignoring them for the time being is a truly useful advice
And you are right to do so, as a Polish citizen if I knew that you are learning the language I would totally give 100% tolerance to your spelling mistakes.
I tested myself at Spanish yesterday to review my level. It seems I have still not yet mastered "the basics". I was a bit annoyed but then soon realised if I'm ticking things off, to go through certain criteria the process would not be enjoyable. And then today I had a lightbulb moment 💡 I decided to do my warm up before my run, watching stretches in Spanish on UA-cam with reggaeton blasting in the background. Eureka!
Hello, do not trust the online test, you could actually be intermediate. I am a native french speaker and I hardly get advanced to an online French test. You should try to test your English, and you will see with your own eyes. The main reason for that is that the website want to seel you their product, the lower they assess you, the more products they sell.... I want to make a video on my channel about this, subscribe if you are interestted.
Don't worry, it's normally for example I have been study English for a time and Still I can't to learn, I can understand some words or read the basic but it's normally
As a student who wants to study English as a second language, I totally agree with you with the sentence: “Language is not the thing that ‘LEARNED’, but ‘ACQUIRED.’”
that is true i am fluent in english (english is my second language) and i never ever in my entire life have studied for at least a minute. i learned it like it was my first language, like a child hearing and repeating words. and the funniest part is that it only took like 6-8 months of just watching minecraft videos
So true. I have taken Japanese in my college and German when I was working for a German company, the people around me who enjoyed learning, even though they were slower and did mistakes in the beginning, learnt the language much faster as couple of weeks went by.
Thanks, those are really good pieces of advice that I have been experiencing myself! Learning a language is a long-term process, but when you enjoy it, it's very delightful to learn!
I think the biggest problem with typical language learning classes is that they don't teach to actually get you to understand the language, but they teach to get you to be able to speak it on some level as fast as possible. I think this is best explained with examples from my own experience learning Japanese, both in a classroom and outside of it through "exposure" (lots of anime and J-Pop.) In class, the first thing we learned (after learning hiragana) were common phrases such as "excuse me," "I'm sorry," and "thank you." Then after that, we learned the polite form of some basic verbs. We didn't even learn about dictionary/casual form until the middle of the second semester, since they didn't want to risk us being rude by using dictionary form first. We still haven't learned casual past-tense either! This represents a very different goal than starting with dictionary form, or the base form of a verb, away from understanding the language, and giving students the fastest way to speak it instead. Another thing I noticed is that we've only recently learned about noun clauses (putting a casual form noun before a verb to make the verb and the stuff before it describe the noun), when it was literally the second piece of grammar I picked up naturally from exposure to the language, and that's because the concept is really difficult to understand at first, but so commonly used that it barely took me any time to stop noticing it. This reasoning does actually make sense once you look at it from another angle though: Students are going to get really demotivated if the language is too hard at first. This is why we had to wait so long for things like noun clauses, because even despite how fundamental it is, after seeing how many students struggle with it, if it was introduced in 1st year instead of 3rd, half of the kids would end up dropping the class. It's unfortunate, but lots of language classes and programs are tailored for casual learners and not the people who want to put in 100% effort and really build up an understanding of the language.
"Focus on enjoying the language." This really is the best advice. Thank you!
😊😃
What if you have to learn the language you hate? Right now I’m living in a country I hate, they speak the language I hate, they have the culture I hate, everything about the country and language itself is not to my liking at all, but due to circumstances I MUST learn it, any advice?
@@exdorms leave the Country
@@kamalnr2442 not an option, unfortunately
@@exdorms
Yes! Leave the country! No matter what the reasons, you ended up there in the first place.
Simple extra tip: Do not hold back because you are afraid of making some mistakes. You will get better because you train.
This is great advice.
learning languages as a shy person really sucks
@@irgendwer3610you know, everyone is shy when it comes to speaking the languages 😅
I hope you and I will smash this problem in time 😊
hello there ! welcome to the team
That what's I really need to hear . Thank you
"Focus on enjoying the language" : only when i did that i saw real improvement! Thank you, Steve❤
Irresistible cuteness
Do not flatter her panjabi
Very true what u say about learning a language naturally! I'm a Spanish native speaker, and I learned English without studying, by just chatting on internet, watching movies and games, etc.
Thank you very much for letting me know it's ok to make mistakes. Now my goal is to fully learn Japanese, and I will be doing the same, mixed with studying the alphabet and Kanji 😄
Japanese is a hard language props to you
anyone can speak english.
Thank you for this. I've been failing in basics of english since I was a child, and everytime I failed my thoughts were always the same "You're supposed to know this already, why are you still failing at it?" but now I'm trying to forget about that and enjoy the language, not suffer with it.
Your english is great.
You sound native.
@@lynntfuzz Really? I feel praised haha
@@aquamarina7944 totally agree with Lynngolango, your written sentences look 100% like a native speaker's. As a former professional translator, I am keenly aware how easy it is to make tell-tale slip-ups in a language not our own. But you are well beyond that, you and native. So, if you really are a non-native speaker and not just kidding us, hats off to you. I'm in awe :-)
@@TheJusio Wow, I didn't notice that. And no worries, I'm mexican so my mother tongue is Spanish haha, I don't have any reasons to be joking.
Back in school, my average grade in English was a C. Later, it became an A-, but not because I had put any conscious effort into improving my English, but because I had begun to read books and comics in English. I only used a dictionary when it was necessary. Like you said, you will learn the most common words automatically if you immerse yourself in the language. I think I did pretty well without ever having been to an English speaking country.
Books are the bestest best friend of a language learner, the only problem that i don't like to read. When i read a few books i realized my mother tongue improved, i found words way easier than before, expressing myself became so easy but i don't read anymore. 🙃
True
I did that too, just need to understand word to word and the contex what are they talking about.
To have correct Grammar requires syst😊ematic learning of Geammar.
skill
Same, but with stupids series and stupids contents on youtube! I improved my English in six months a lot more than in ten years at school studying with "serious" materials.
This is one of Steve's best videos yet. At age 48 I moved to Germany from the UK and had to start again with the language that I had learned in school. Although some 'basics' of grammar were still there deeply buried in my brain, I had to refresh everything and certainly build up vocabulary like a beginner. And here's the thing, although I would now and again look in a grammar book to check something I did not try to memorise 'rules' or lists. Instead I did loads of reading and spent hundreds of hours listening to native speakers and analysed use of grammar in context to understand how the language works.
When it came to vocabulary learning I remember the metaphor of a 'radar' that was often in my mind. At the start all words in the target language are foreign and unknown. Millions of words are flying around in that language every day, both spoken and written. Then your brain notices a particular word or phrase flying across the mind's 'radar' regularly and it begins to pay attention to that word or phrase. For example, every day I would hear Germans say "Sag mir Bescheid". I never learned that phrase in school. What does that mean? Ah, "tell me" or "let me know" in my native language. It took me another two years before I could use it with confidence myself. Now I don't even think about it.
Sixteen years later at age 64 I can stand on a stage in Germany as a professional storyteller and entertain a German audience in their own language. Every time I open my mouth I still make small mistakes. It doesn't matter!
Now I am learning Ukrainian and challenging myself to learn the story of Little Red Riding Hood so I can tell it to native speaker refugees here.
Keep practicing. Übung macht den Meister!
This is a wonderful story. Thanks for sharing. Austria is an amazing country, I have spent some time there before in Steiermark.
Vielleicht könntest du dann auch direkt bei deinen Landeskameraden mit dem Vorurteil aufräumen, Deutsch sei eine harte und hässliche Sprache! :D
Its only because of one guy that the whole planet has the prejudice torwards us germans.
@@danielmeier8321 Ja, der Mark Twain hat da wegen 'hässlicher' Sprache viel zu verantworten! Das mit dem Adolf ist so eine Sache. Wenn Millionen auch nicht mitgemacht hätten, wäre er in Vergessenheit geraten. Aber ja, der ungerechte Versailles-Vertrag, die große Inflation und eine gute Portion Verschwörungserzählungen und Propaganda gegen Juden waren alle mitverantwortlich. Die Geschichte ist eben kompliziert.
Ich bin immer wieder beeindruckt, wie die Mehrheit der modernen Deutschen diese Geschichte nicht verleugnen sondern aufarbeiten wollen. Das Gleiche kann ich nicht bei meinen Landsleuten wegen britischem Imperium oder bei den Amerikanern wegen ihrem Imperium beobachten. Zu oft leider nur Selbstgefälligkeit!
Nur ein Tipp für Deutsche im Ausland. Nicht immer sofort die besten Plätze beim Pool mit dem Handtuch 'reservieren' - das kommt nicht gut an! ;-)
That’s amazing. Thank you for supporting Ukraine ❤
Wish you luck with Ukrainian, too :)
It’s not so difficult as it might look first. Btw, we do understand foreigners even if they mix up all the inflections. And it’s inspiring when foreigners try to speak my mother tongue 😊
@@rickyning Yes, thanks to LingQ I am making great progress with Ukrainian. I intend to hold my first conversation with a native speaker refugee in the next few weeks.
1 year before I saw you with Gabriel Polyglot. I always thought that learning a foreign language would be impossible for an ordinary person. And today, I can watch this video and understand what you're saying. Thank you.
What languages do you speak now?
@@donkbonktj5773 português ( Brazil ) and english
I find studying the basics (I.e., grammar) helps in somewhat unexpected ways. First it helps accelerate my noticing and understanding certain patterns. Often I find native speech “in the wild” has so much going on that I’m too overwhelmed to notice patterns. I also find that if I’m really struggling with a particular grammar concept, I realize I’m just not ready for it yet-try again later. Second it gives me confidence to speak a little earlier especially with common patterns (e.g., what to do with modal and main verbs, how to conjugate a particular tense, where do modifiers belong) . There comes a point where certain things just sound right, but studying a little grammar allows me to start playing with the pattern in my output earlier than I probably would otherwise. I’m guessing I need 70-80% input, and 20-30% “studying the basics.”
The people that tell you not to study grammar and vocabulary are usually trying to sell an app or program. I completely agree with your comment and have a similar learning style.
Agreed! in fact, that's the fun part; plus the phonetics and the culture.
Agreed! There is no good reason to do just one OR the other sequentially!!! Learning both “the basics” and getting lots of exposure to the new language at the right level - BOTH at the same time! - is best. I think you greatly reduce your efficiency if you only get natural exposure OR if you only get explanations with a few examples, as in a language learning book.
Of my 5 languages, I learned one of them, Spanish, solely through natural exposure. Though I speak very fluently and understand a wide variety of accents well, a number of errors got “baked in”…like for example, I don’t always use the subjunctive when I should. I think that this tends to happen when you learn as an adult. You don’t necessarily notice everything and if you can communicate, you’re saying, “obviously this is correct” to yourself. Whereas my German, which I learned later through combined theoretical study and practical exposure is more correct.
YES! The OP is clearly a hardcore Krashenite - I’ve got a masters degree in TESOL and Krashen is like the cranky old godfather of Second Language Acquisition studies: he was instrumental in establishing the field, a couple of concepts have stood the test of time, but mostly he’s referred to in the literature as an example of the crazy stuff we used to believe before 40 years of further theorization and empirical research has proven his core hypothesis wrong.
Krashen argued that Comprehensible Input is necessary AND sufficient for acquiring a second language. That’s BS. It’s certainly necessary, but insufficient. Studying vocab and grammar, using language productively, interaction, meaningful practice - these are all important components in language learning. Look up the “interaction hypothesis” for a better sense of why input is not enough, and look up Paul Nation’s “Four Strands” for a very easily digestible sense of the state of the art of our understanding of how languages are learned and how they should be taught.
@@theymademepickaname1248 The only person trying to sell something here is Steve.
I'm Brazilian, and thus Portuguese is my native language. I learned English when I was very young, through immersion in vast English material - music, games, movies, text, etc. I don't remember studying a book or memorizing rules. Before I even knew it, I could come up with phrases which simply made total sense, grammatically, with the patterns I had been picking up on. Since then, I see immersion as the only effective way to learn a new language, one does not have to brute force one's way into a language.
Inspiring. I am trying to learn Japanese and have realized recently that my immersion in the language has been non existent.
@@Mactakun Well You have to.
I’m Brazilian as well and I’ve been trying for decades, but no advance fluency. 😔
Pretty much what I've been doing for the past 2 years, watching stuff and reading comics in English and it's been working quite well
I think the same way that you do, in regards to immersion. I’m an American who traveled to Brazil several times a year. I would call myself intermediate in Portuguese. If I spent two weeks in São Paulo.. by the third day, I would understand most of what’s going on around me. It took that long for my mind to get used to the patterns and the rhythm of Brazilian Portuguese. But you only get there by being constantly inundated with the language. And the best part about it, is actually spending time in that country. Having no choice but to listen and speak intently.
Valid points - I noticed this myself recently when I started learning Japanese. I kept repeating the first two units in my study book over and over, and at some point it felt like I was stuck. I was so focused on memorizing the “basics“, that I forgot about making any progress. After becoming aware of that fact, I remembered how I actually learned/studied English back in the days, and I noticed that back then I was actually indirectly pushing myself to make progress by reading and listening to things I didn‘t fully understand yet, but I always looked it up afterwards. The more I read and listened, the more easy stuff like grammar and vocabulary became, and at some point, I’d say, it became like second nature.
Japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn. I work with Japanese corporate people who tell me they often don't understand what their colleagues are saying. Many of the people I associate with, when I ask them to define something they just shrug.
I'm also learning Japanese as well and I'm at the point where I feel stuck/overwhelmed by the amount I "need" to remember.
@@na_haynes I agree, though for me the 'talking' part isn't something I can talk about yet. I'm still at the beginning of my studies, but coming from a language with a simple alphabet, I know that it will pose quite the challenge to memorise all the different kanji. The good thing is, that I have things that keep me motivated, and so, I'm sure I'll figure this language out in time.
@@LAchicktravels Yeah, I get that. It's my first time learning a language on my own. In school you have a timetable, and you basically rush through everything. Having the chance to do things on my own, I hardly challenge or stress myself. I'm not entirely sure which way is better, but I prefer my stress-free plan for now. I'm sure, that especially remembering all the kanji will pose a challenge in the future, but we'll see.
I started learning Japanese when I went to Japan & lived there for 3 years, learning Aikido in a Japanese dojo and teaching English to earn a living. I never took any formal Japanese lessons, but I had a basic textbook, and a weekly exchange "lesson" with a Japanese friend. (Fortunately, we were both self-directed learners, and each used our own lesson time in our own way.) In the beginning I refused to learn the Japanese scripts - but that changed when I noticed that travelling outside the city area, I needed to be able to recognise place names written in kanji. Eventually I decided to learn the katakana & hiragana scripts - which are usually the beginning of formal Japanese lessons. (My son, 12 years old & at an international school, was not as lucky in his Japanese language instruction.)
I was very motivated to learn to communicate with my fellow Aikido students, and it was easy to pick up the simple instructions that were most important! ...However, I very much doubt that my "first 100 words" would have been on anyone else's list...
In learning an actual language to talk to real people, there are all sorts of filler phrases that never make the textbooks but are incredibly important in signalling that you are about to say something. That is where having access to a friendly native speaker is really helpful!
After 3 years in Japan, I was at about intermediate level, not as far advanced as the people who had been studying Japanese intensively but way more advanced than the other group who just gave up & never progressed beyond "konnichiwa".
Now I have been trying to learn Spanish - and it is really hard without that immersion factor... even though Spanish is a much easier language.
Anyway, good luck, have fun, and keep going!
I grew up bilingual, English and Spanish. I learned conversational French and Dutch one year when I was in Europe. Months ago I started learning New Testament Greek. I couldn't agree more about not learning basics. There are so many words and phrases that repeat themselves throughout the Bible and I've learned to easily recognize them as I study every morning, knowing little about conjugation, grammar, etc. Learning it this way makes it much more fun.
Study to make yourself approved by God, a workman worthy of hire, si?
New Testament Greek is a hard task. As a Greek, I will understand the words, but not the meaning. So congrats for undertaking this task!
i am about to do hebrew
I am learning french and turkish as a spanish and english speakers, but I learned spanish and did not acquire it
I love french. As a Spanish native I used French textbooks since I couldn't find good English ones.
I agree! I'm Brazilian, 🇧🇷 I'm learning 6 languages at the same time! All my life I was forced to learn English with the basics, but I failed a lot! Today I use English to learn other languages! For me it's so fun and I feel like I'm learning so fast!
Syrian here who is learning Brazilian portuguese, I want to say you guys have a very nice language!
Good luck on your journey, 6 languages sounds tough XD
As a professional language teacher and language learning hobbyist (and enthusiastic Lingq user!), I couldn't agree more with this. Some very important conclusions for language teaching follow upon this attitude regarding "the basics." Over the years I've seen many teachers get exasperated when their intermediate or advanced students slip up with basic vocabulary and sentence structures, and these teachers feel that they have to revert back to lessons on "the basics" that their students then find irritating and de-motivating. I always tell new teachers to avoid this. I also tell my students not to stress out over these slips. As Steve explains here, with increasingly rich input (and I would add increasing production based on that input), "the basics" eventually fall into place. You just have to keep moving with the motivating n+1 content. If teachers and students everywhere got this message, more people would be motivated to learn languages.
I have spend 8 years learning grammar rules of french and English at school, and never learned anything.
Also after time and time we still returned to the basics stuff cause we just forgot them ecc... And it was a pain in the 4ss all over again. Just madness.
When i start learning English i didn't really know what to do ( everyone said " just watch film " lol ) but after a while and after following good teacher like Steven i really learned a lot.
Eventually i did it with french as well.
Started with grammar rules and stuff, and after 1 week i quit.
I started with video for children and things like that, then moved to podcast ecc.. and after 3 months i moved to France lol.
What i did in 3 months with UA-cam for free, i couldn't do in 8 years with "" teachers " which should know what they are doing lol.
Now I'm studying German, and is true that is hard, but still manageable to learn.
I've spent the last 40 years teaching English as a Foreign language and can say that I completely agree with this too. Unfortunately, the contrary position is widely believed both by students and supervisors.
Different people have different minds, however. Those who learn a language using a memorise and master the basics method are often precisely those who turn up in the classroom because the other (more normal!) people have dropped out. They don 't like it if you change the way they are supposed to learn. In these cases I presetneded to use the 'basics' method but actually used the natural method.
Yes to a point. I learned Portuguese mostly living in Brazil. I'm extremely fluent and can express myself as comfortably as English (well almost). But as I never learned the basics I still have problems and it's a pain
Not all falls in place. Even in your mother language you are taught basic writing rules and you get grammar lesson at school. You will never get them right in a foreign language either by just waiting that “all falls in place”. I know what I am talking about - I haven’t taught languages but learnt them … This all doesn’t mean that it’s wrong what is said here. Just just need both. And time, time, time. The biggest error is to assume that learning a language is easy and can be achieved “on the fly”. That works - best case - if you are in the country immersed with native speakers. Still I doubt it will work for a completely remote language (like Chinese for me).
@@alexandermenck6609 My generation were never taught English grammar at school. Those who were fully literate had no problem with it. Students of other languages who are taught their own grammar in school do not seem to benefit from it. I'm inclined to think that time spent learning the grammar of one's own language is much better pent reading a book.
Great analysis. I spent 6 years ( including 3 years in university) to become decent in German. In contrast, about 18 months to acquire the same level in Russian. Russian I ‘‘studied’ for for 2 weeks to get oriented and then watched UA-cam videos of pre school stories, kids cartoons, then read teen books, read books, set my Facebook , etc settings to Russian. An hour and a half or so a day but it wasn’t ‘work’ but just part of day to day living. Proper grammar, verb tenses is more of a breeze ‘after’ exposure to thr language and, to be honest, even then have no ‘need’ to be that proficient in writing Russian…it ‘comes together’ using language caps whrn I post on Russian language forums.
Why bother?
with Russian?
Russia has some of the most beautiful literature in the world. There’s a rich and deep meaning you get from it which you cannot get from English or any language in the world besides Russian itself. If you’re curious about Russian literature I’d recommend; Anna Akhmatova, Leo Tolstoy, and Fyodor Dostoevsky.
@@Alec72HD because Russian women are beautiful
@@Alec72HD tolstoy, dostoevsky
Also Russian women
@@CoxChiropracticAustin
Stay away from my babushkas.
Nice to hear this. I am currently learning my 5th language, Greek, at age 67.
I learnt French in school over 5 years then lived in Belgium and France for a total of 5 years. My first wife was also French which helped and so my French became pretty good.
I moved to northern Switzerland where I went to night school for a semester to learn German and learned absolute basics but a) I was hearing Swiss German dialect during the daytime in my job and b) learned the rest of my German at work or in the street and later with my wife. Now after 30 years it's not bad.
I went to night school for 2 or 3 semesters to learn Italian so I could talk with my father-in-law a) but they explained the grammar in terms of German so that didn't help me much. However because of my strong French I could fill in many gaps and understand and speak well enough for my needs.
I am now learning modern Greek in German and the grammar explanations relate to German grammar which I still really don't know well, so it's uphill work. But although I don't know the basics very well, I feel they will fall into place as soon as I can understand more and speak more. So I'm not too worried - because at my age I know that people will probably understand what I want to say, even if it's not correct. The best way would probably to get a live-in Greek girlfriend but I don't think my wife would be too keen! 🙂
*Bottom line: I agree with Steve - get familiar with some basics but move on. They'll fall into place when you get more practice and experience listening and speaking*
All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Dang. If only I had a Japanese or French girlfriend/wife, etc.
The trick is to marry a new wife every time you learn a new language. Expensive, but effective.
so the secret is getting a wife that speaks the language you want to learn, got it!
@@facucu5957 Yeah, it cost me 3 houses and hundreds of handbags and thousands of shoes - but it was worth it! 😂😂
Does your 5th wife approve of this message?
The last sentence of the video really hit the nail on the head: "Don't focus on the basics; focus on enjoying the language". The late great laoshu505000 did just that; he focused on memorizing phrases at first and would then study grammar later. I've done the same with Hebrew, and it's really helped me not get bogged down with the grammatical complexities of the language. I find that tackling difficult grammatical concepts isn't such a slog if you already have a bunch of words and phrases under your belt, derived from courses and/or natural input like movies/books/music in the language. Public school Spanish classes really killed the language by beating us over the head with too much explicit grammatical instruction.
This.
I can't thank enough UA-cam for all contents I watched all these years. I improved my english following the rules said here, i'm studying other three languages( french, spanish and german). Thankyou Sir❤️ I love UA-cam's world. I learned to cook, to dance, I've listened audiobooks and podcasts, I begun to meditate and say the affirmations....I just grow so much day by day. I could go on and on... I'm so grateful!!! Thank you ...Danke ...Grazie ...Gracias ...Merci ...
Such good advice!
The "basics" you need to learn are the rhythm, melody and meaning of tones. This is what animals and little kids use to understand messages coming from adults. Immerse, immerse, immerse. Be sure you're immersing yourself in conversation with people who speak well. Let them know you're trying to absorb the language, not so they'll correct you, but so they'll be careful how they speak.
*_This is most helpful!_* Learning a language immersed in that society has been difficult for me because my wife speaks 90-95% perfect English and rarely attempts her own language with me. I'm still more fluent with the Spanish I learned some half century ago! In fact, most every citizen here in the Philippines learns English as a 2nd or 3rd language because it is used in all legal documents.
Great video. Learning a language is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle, rather than constructing a building. With a building, the order is extremely important, whereas with a puzzle the whole thing is worked at the same time. Some areas are easier and some are harder. Tackling the easier areas first makes sense, and makes the harder areas more manageable... but it would be absurd to say that you *ought* to complete a given area before moving on to the next.
Great analogy
Totally agree
Hmm...it's not as simple as that imo. There is nothing wrong with "learning the basics" at the same time as using native materials, for example.
@@rayflaherty3441 I agree - you need a foundation in order to make progress. I would definitely say study the basics - it's the idea that you have to master the basics before moving on that I think is the problem. Language isn't math, you don't need to progress sequentially. As Steve points out, plenty of people speak English very well without having mastered the third person singular verb conjugation. They didn't need it in order to move forward.
@@ctnt3126 "you need a foundation in order to make progress" so it's not like a jigsaw puzzle then? Also, I think not studying pronunciation and the alphabet in the very beginning is a recipe for disaster regarding pronunciation; do it at your own risk.
For my journey studying language outside of school and in an environment of full immersion, starting out with grammar and vocab basics on my own yielded little progress I would either forget things easily or not understand due to lack of context. Learning from a teacher gave me a better foundation for 'the basics' because he taught me things that were actually useful, and taught me how to go about learning from others(i.e. how to ask questions). Now as a more experienced speaker and user of the language, coming back to the grammar basics has helped me sharpen my skills and reinforce proper usage.
Different people might have different learning styles. I find it easier to learn grammar as well as I can, and add vocabulary as I go along. I found it immensely frustrating that my Japanese teachers not only seldom would teach the grammar - at times they did not even know it. For learning the kanji characters: they never told us that there were basic components which would recur over a wide range of kanji. Instead, we were instructed to learn the stroke order, though it is easier just to recognize and assemble known components. If you know the common components, you at least have a chance at guessing the meaning of an unknown character.
True. An analytical person can learn a language amazingly fast through grammar.
To naturally learn a language as we do our mother tongue takes years of direct exposure.
That is probably because the process of learning a language includes a huge part of personal observing, attempting to build the logic and associations. Some people, like me, for example, prefer to see the whole picture before picking out the details. But many others just love obtaining new skills, or information mechanically, because there isn't enough time to think of the rules while the process of speaking, and that's why it may seem useless to spend a lot of time to learn the theory by heart instead of getting hands-on experience right away. But in my humble opinion, it's worth to understand the rule once and get the logic, and you'll be able to recall any rule again from the examples. Win-win. And teachers exist to guide you, so just don't hesitate to ask them your tricky questions :) Who knows, this may open completely new ways of explanation and study one day.
That was probably because that was the way that they learned it (as native speakers, which I assume that you are not). It's a tradition thing. So, they figured that if it was good enough for them, it was good enough for you. What they don't realize is that some flexibility is needed, and that there are multiple strategies that can and could come into play in learning any language, depending on how that language is structured.
Incidentally, I saw a video a while back in which a guy interviewed and tested Japanese people on the street about their knowledge of the Kanji. A LOT of them didn't even know what they meant! Many just guessed (always wrong). The average Japanese person's knowledge of Kanji is probably not that great. That says something about their teaching methods and the weaknesses involved, does it not?
@@tabletalk33 I had suffered from the scientifically unsound contention that the best way to learn a foreign language, is gone child-like. A problem with that, is that adult brains do not functionally much resemble those of infants. In the course of developing into adulthood, the brain reconfigures itself.
Expecting a mind to perform well with developmentally obsolete tools, might not yield optimal results.
@@philipb2134Excellent points! Yes, that is why a baby learns NATURALLY as he is growing and maturing while surrounded by loved ones and neighbors. Adults are no longer involved in that process. Thus, they need many artificial aids and helps to take the place of the family/neighborhood environment in order to jump start them in their learning process. That's an ARTIFICIAL method of learning, and it's not nearly as effective as the natural one.
Great points, Steve! Im learning Polish and I have been stuck with this fantasy of acquiring "the basics" of Polish before I learn something new, but I end up beating myself up all the time because I realize that its too complicated for my Norwegian ear to grasp "all the basics" without making mistakes! I think I gotta continue to learn new words and stop caring too much about making it perfect or Im not getting anywhere
I'm all for studying the basics. You won't learn it all at once, but if you know the idea of how to conjugate a verb it's easier to understand what you're practicing, so it becomes faster to internalize the patterns.
I also recommend watching videos and reading books in your target language to see how the language is used, and practicing with a native speaker is a bonus if you can.
There are some "basics" or patterns that require attention. I am studying Turkish (just for fun) right now. Of course I didn't know anything about how they conjugated their verbs in the beginning. So, I had to give that a look before I advanced. I couldn't very well learn them accurately just by watching tv shows! I had to stop and look them up in books and/or watch language videos or internet websites with the information listed, and then practice them a little. Then I went back to my tv shows and understood the conversation just a little better than I had before. The progress is slow but steady. That's about the best I can do.
The actual argument he gives doesn't support not learning the basics, it supports the weaker suggestion not to think you have to have all the basics perfectly ingrained before moving on
@joshpecksdad7159 so what should we start with when learning Mandarin? I just did all the things you listed 😅
I agree with you. With languages such as Farsi or Arabic, it is crucial to learn verb conjugations as they determine the tense you wish to speak in, just like any other language.
There are a few core principles which must be fully understood to speak any language such as knowledge of verbs, nouns, prepositions, and a few transitives.
Without these a sentence is incomprehensible.
@@Abdullah_Obaid_Ullahyeah, there are essential "basics" which you should learn even if you're gonna learn by immersion and don't care much about grammar, I don't understand how some learners don't see you should have both theory and practice to learn a language well, you just should find your way of doing both things in proportions that are good for you and your goal
Such wisdom. What you're actually saying is that you can trust the force of the language in terms of other people using the language that will guide you 'en masse' as it were to conform yourself to it - much like a road with no signage or markings, if many cars are together on that road, they accommodate one another in more or less a natural go with the flow way. Its about harmonising within extant usage and allowing it to shape you. This is how babies learn, and its about really concertedly taking the language in (as if your life depended on it).
I love your videos and get a lot out of them. I joined the LingQ community a couple of weeks ago. It blows my mind how people can master more than two languages.
This is awesome. Everyone goes at their own pace, from different angles, and no one ever speaks the same "English" or "Spanish", etc. That's how dialects form. You speak based on the things you need to communicate. With necessity comes communication. It's a journey where you encounter the same characters in different places, like the Wizard of Oz!
Certainly a lot of things are right. However, it’s also a simplification. It works in total immersion e.g. when you move to the country of the language. “At home” it is difficult to get the necessary level of immersion. It sounds easy to “learn as a child” but children take - almost literally - ages to master a language. And they are fully immersed expressing a lot of frustration very loudly when they do not succeed. Adults usually cannot…
Adults can't learn like children. We need to learn the grammar in order to understand it, otherwise we take ages trying to understand why words are different in each case we encounter. It's much more efficient for an adult just to learn the rules
It makes us feel better to have grammar, because it calms us; yet I have noticed the exposure to the target language is what works the best
I could not agree more! I am a professional language teacher and have had to use mixed bag of methods and my conclusion is that there is NO perfect approach to teaching/learning a language when you are "at home". The amount of time you ARE NOT IMMERSED in the target language and culture is a major component to take in consideration. I have had all types of students, mostly adults, and some are more intuitive and adventurous. others can only advance when they feel safe and sure; some have time to study by themselves and some can barely have a one session per week. So I really think having the knowledge of different methods and using them as needed is the best approach.
By the way, I learned English the other way around - I enrolled in an ELS course in New York and studied there for six months. After these six months, I enrolled in a undergraduate course at Wagner College for six more months and the rest is history. However this is not a reality for the majority of ELS learners.
I have also had the experience of studying Egyptian Arabic at home and believe me, I have this experience as a good understanding of what my students go through.
@@olaf2627 Yes and no. I have spent four years in a workplace with lots of foreigners coming over to Germany for a limited time, a lot of them trying to pick up the language on the side. A reoccuring theme was their frustation with all the irregularities. Learning the rules is just a place to start from. I still remember chatting with this French lady about studying for her B1 exam with the Goethe Institute. She was talking grammar rules I had never heard of (despite being able to apply them correctly), and I was a pretty good student back in my high school days. And this was just B1. They also have an A level...
Wholeheartedly agree! Many school systems mistake actually "teaching/learning " a language with "studying its rules as a scientific topic" at a university. - With the result of sheer frustration for many students, like me 30 years ago.
Very true.
I agree with what you are saying here ,as a native English speaker living in Hungary. Hungarian is quite difficult for English speakers..but I follow the policy of giving it a go and trying to memorise the common words as I come across them without getting too hung up over the grammar. It’s a slow process but gradually it seems to bear fruit .
I am trying to learn Arabic at the moment to move to Saudi Arabia, it's a slow process but I think the key is that I really like the language and the way it sounds, which has helped me to improve noticeably.
What a great video! Speaking 4 different languages, after watching this video I understand better why it took me so long to learn 2 of them. Also noticing my twin daughters, 4.5 years old, speaking fluently 4 languages makes me agree with the approach that Steve proposes in this video a lot! Finally, it encourages me to keep teaching my students Greek in an immersive way, which I love. Don't be afraid to listen and speak! This is our natural way of being, learning, and expressing ourselves!
When I was in school (in Finland) we always just studied basics. It was top most important thing to do basics right. Now when I am older I wish I was taught to just try speaking it and ignore small errors. Because small errors do not matter in your everyday life. Other people are going to understand you anyway. It's enough that you can get those words out of your mouth.
I'm strongly tempted to agree with you, but I'm wondering how you define "basics" and "small errors." Most people think "basics" involves the easy stuff, and while that might be true for the native speaker, it might NOT be at all true for the 2nd language learner!
As for "small errors," that depends on how you define that as well and whether it blocks clear communication or not. In some cases, it may be of little importance, as you say. In other cases, a subtle mishap may result in a major misunderstanding.
Thank you for the advice. This is very encouraging. I tend to overthink and overanalyze verb conjugations and it has stopped me from taking initiative in speaking French. I will try to speak without worry about mistakes. Eventually, if I hear enough people around, I will naturally correct myself.
I am a non-native ESL teacher and Intermediate French speaker, and I can agree with this strategy for myself and for most of my adult students, as well as for most of kids. However, there are some of my both adult and kids students, who are desperately incapable of noticing language patterns with whatever material you give them. They're just waiting for the teacher to give them certain grammar and vocabulary to learn. And only after they're familiar with all the vocabulary and grammar, after they've learnt it by heart, they can watch or read something with this grammar or vocabulary, because now they're not afraid of it. I believe, it might be the Soviet Union heritage, but that's a fatal fear of anything unknown and a fear of independent action which doesn't let such people learn naturally.
В общем, главное в этом посте- обгадить советское наследие, умудрившись сделать это даже при описании методов изучения иностранных языков. Возьми с полки пирожок.
@@dherblay1 i do agree, my students don t want to make any effort to learn by themselves, so, grammar helps them to understand.
Thank you for this video Steve! I'm currently learning Spanish and I've noticed that I don't really like to study the basics in the work book that I have because I don't retain much but when I'm actively listening to music or actively engaged in the language somehow like *changing my language on my phone to spanish.* *Listening to spanish podcasts/music* I feel as though I retain more. One habit I'm currently doing is purposely trying to incorporate the spanish language into my life. What I don't know now, I will eventually know. Also, it will help me to better understand how I learn things.
I've followed Steve and the LingQ project for years, had it not been for LingQ, I wouldn't have passed a C2 test with confidence and every one of his insights can save you years, LingQ is just the beginning. Besides from that, when one starts learning a new language, it's very easy to fall on the trap of "mastering the basics" because you come from this place either in your own mother language or a language that you recently mastered/got to be fluent in and you somehow buy into this illusion of hyperfocusing in details. As Steve has said in other videos: "with enough exposure, the language is the teacher".
So helpful! I love this more fluid approach to learning a language. It helps with letting go of the often-times frustrating 'basic' errors and focusing instead on listening/reading lots, enjoying the journey of learning and trusting that the basics will sort themselves out in time.
Good video. I personally believe it’s a combination of both….not 100% mastering the basics and not 100% obtained from input initially. Before reading (depending on the language), you may need to learn it’s alphabet or script…..otherwise you will probably not be able to read the language….also, if you don’t know at least basic grammar it will be very hard to consume input…even after basic grammar it will be hard initially…but I think it would be just a bit less hard…..doesn’t have to be particularly a different forms of a verb…but just basic enough grammar…to maybe at least recognize the dictionary form of the verb so it can be, for example, found in a dictionary…things like that….in my opinion help a lot…..
I love this video! True to this story, I also struggled to learn most of the basics. I remember being stuck with the "I am, you are" etc table and the teacher having me stay on that chapter till I learned it. I eventually got it on a certain level and continued to take lessons till I was 13 years old and took my exams for the B2 level (barely passed). I was one of the worst students in my class and stopped the lessons altogether afterwards.
Fast forward 7 years and having read a lot of books in English (I had to because the sequels of my favourite series hadn't been translated in my native language yet). I somehow became one of the most naturally speaking English people in my group of friends and peers. I didn't even put any effort into the learning process. I just acquired it. I didn't even know the grammar I was using (I still don't 🤣). I was just using it.
For example, I remember I had always struggled with the difference between "through, thought, though, throughout, tough". I couldn't write them, I couldn't understand the meaning of the words if I ever saw them. But when I started reading books, the words were always in context! And that really made all the difference.
Often context matters more than the actual words that are spoken or written.
If I stand up in a crowded restaurant, look around anxiously and then say "Aidfggh Xerophad kmaizee?" to a waiter he will probably point to the Men's Room.
Lingq exploded my romanian reading comprehension but i realised too late that i was not developing my listening or vocal abilities. To the point that the romanians i work with pull faces when i speak.
I have started learning arabic now using lingq to shadow each line as i learn it. Only now do i realise that half using lingq (only reading) is so restricting.
Love the software, love the channel.
Yeah, lingq is a stellar resource, but it's still supplementary. It's perfect for reading, but do other stuff for listening etc.
I'm Arabic native speaker, and can provide you comprehensible input. natural mini stories, etc
Interesting point of view. As English teacher I try to combine both options, showing the "basics" and doing more natural exercises, like conversations, reading comprenhension...
"Focus on enjoying the language" ABSOLUTELY! Higher levels of learning happen when we are enjoying whatever it is, being curious and to a lesser extent being a little frustrated (developing the desire to know more). Wonderful presentation.
I agree absolutely! I’ve just finished my Krashen’s Five Hypotheses in multi-classroom participatory research in a primary school in Phitsanulok, Thailand. The kids learn English as a foreign language, as well as integrating in Math & Science as much as possible, from Thai teachers who speak English well enough. I introduce Japanese as L3, as special activity that focus on enjoying the language. The kids are in Grades 4,5,6 a total of 151 students. The are able to acquire Japanese language at the 3rd level (begin to speak & write Japanese by themselves). I’m Thai, literate in English & Japanese with most Loatian dialects. Used to teach English in primary school & experienced teaching beginner Japanese through natural approach. I believe that SLA Theory should be very useful to Thailand’s foreign language education.
The stages of foreign language learning are : acquaintance, practice and immersion. They can be done simultaneously. It is not easy, but watching subtitled movies is a great way of immersion. 😁Cheers ☺️
I'm a native English speaker learning French and this video makes a lot of sense to me. I have had many tutors all of whom correct my mistakes, either during the class or via an email after the class. The latter is a better idea as I can browse through them later and try to take note of them. But as Steve says I go on making the same mistakes again and again. So this focus on basic mistakes is largely a waste of time. None of my tutors have ever told me this, I presume its because they don't know any better. Before I take on a new tutor I now plan to ascertain their attitude to this concept. It should make for an interesting conversation.
Well if your tutor never points them out, they may never get fixed. I also make basic mistakes in French (eg. not agreeing adjectives with nouns), and continue to make them. However since my tutor has highlighted them, their frequency has decreased and sometimes I manage to correct myself before speaking. So I still think feedback is important and if feedback has no effect, you should think about how you are taking it onboard.
I think you're right. Personally, I've always been very good at the "basics" and was usually at the top of the class in my college language courses since that's what they tested for. But when it comes to actually having real life conversations, I'm terrible!
Claro, porque la teoría es una cosa y la práctica otra.
Amazing video. I guess I was being over-critical of myself while I'm learning the basics. I needed this, thank you!
Dear Sir, I agree witht he theory of Natural order of the language acquisition on condition that there is plenty of time. yet adults forced to learn a language in no time, usually specialists sent worldwide with minimum notice, it wońt work in my humble opinion. Just one more argument, there are levels of language proficiencies that involvwe knoledge of established patterns and word power , which is mandatory and technicalities are known for precision of speech. Anyway, a good idea for those being afraid of making mistakes while speaking! Best regards. Paul, 67, retired teacher international students.
Hi Steve.Thanks for the motivational talk!I keep struggling with a German language,even after almost 3 years living in Austria.I keep watching your videos for motivation.
I speak fluent Japanese, which I learned in a traditional undergrad classroom that focused on the basics first, as usual. What ended up helping me really get good was watching subtitled anime for years, thanks to hearing the language spoken naturally in it, but the formal instruction was needed so I could differentiate between legit speech and exaggerated anime speech. There's merit to the basics, it just doesn't have to be the core element of learning is all.
Agree, it's also good for some basic vocabulary acquisition, comprehension and if you watch the right shows, especially non-anime shows, pronunciation and pitch accent.
When you say subtitled, do you mean japanese subtitles?
I wholeheartedly concur your words. I find, this is one of the significant concepts every language learner has to understand in order to level up their language skills. I feel sometimes it (Mastering basics) hinders me to go further too, because the feeling of incompleteness sucks my energy. And I always remember this quote that says, "Success is not the key to Happiness ; Happiness is the key to Success".
Thank you for making videos frequently ☺ Happy language learning grandpa!
Good advice. On the other hand, this is a choose your own adventure experience. For 16 months I worked on Russian mostly through reading and listening. Right now I’m in a university intensive course learning the nuts and bolts of virtually all Russian grammar in eight weeks, because as our instructor keeps saying: (1) you won’t understand this any better by dribbling it out for years and (2) you’ll encounter all the grammar all the time. Suddenly I can write and speak as never before, and I have gained only minimal new vocabulary in this course. But: I now know better than ever the tools that were missing to use the words I had been learning. As I return home, I’ll return to listening, reading, recognizing the grammar that was lost to me before - and gradually mastering those patterns in a natural way just as Steve said. There are no mutually exclusive methods. Choose your own adventure.
Interesting
Mr. Kaufmann. Good to see you're doing well. I watched a few of your videos over 10 years ago when I started learning English and now my English flucency is near native like. Just so you know you're changing the world out there, sir.
Plzz tell me... what did u do in order to improve ur eng? Plz support. I am just a beginnerin this language.
This is how I actually started learning Ukrainian.
I was initially too caught up on the proper grammar but as soon as I started to just try to read, listen and speak it started to come together.
I'm still far from fluent but I can hold a basic conversation.
Exactly my experience! I am ignoring studying the grammar until I really need to. Have spent nearly three months just listening and reading and preparing to have my first conversation with a native speaker in the next few weeks.
У вас все вийде😍Дякую, що опановуєте мову моєї країни, після перемоги чекаємо на вас в гості, в Україні!
@@MarynaPoberezhna Дякую це дуже приємно.
Я народився в Запоріжжі але емігрував коли був дитиною. Я знав тільки російську мову.
Чекаю перемоги. Дуже хотілося би повернутися до рідного міста.
The app I use to learn languages -> bit.ly/3XJvPyA
My 10 FREE secrets to language learning -> www.thelinguist.com
What do you think about this idea of “mastering the basics of a language”?
Your channel is awesome, really cool, absolutely helpful. Thanks for all this great stuff.
I spent years attempting to learn languages and failing because of becoming annoyed about struggling with the basics. Often having teachers and friends saying that I could not progress until I mastered these basics. I stumbled across your videos early last year and started using LingQ since you made it available for those learning Ukrainian. I have to say it is such an amazing app. I have found a tutor who supports the natural acquisition of the language and points out mistakes (if frequent) but ultimately allows me to progress understanding that over time I will improve. I started paying for LingQ to restart my journey learning spanish too and I am having so much fun. Thanks so much Steve :))
Learning the basics are really helps
Thank you. Actually, overthinking about grammar rules has prevented me from speaking English in many situations and made me feel embarrassed about making mistakes. Your words in this video will help me overcome this problem in my attempt to speak English, increase my confidence, and enhance my language proficiency through reading and listening as you advised in this video. Thank you so much.
Hi dear Steve Kauffman, let me tell you that you're a wise man, an outstanding polyglot and an inspiring person 🥰 because you continue to inspire me as well as plenty of people or users for learning languages. After watching this helpful video, I shouldn't try remembering or looking over the basics of the language (English in this case) but I have to say that acquiring basic grammatical patterns is crucial to maintain a simple conversation whether it is short or long. But after all, your advice is obviously important at least for me. It's just a matter of enjoying the language learning journey as you said. This takes a long time because learning any language is a long-term commitment of course. It's widely common for anyone from around the world picking up English as the second language to learn and change our lives. I grew up in a monolingual family, you know, my whole monolingual environment is boring and therefore the outlook is kinda discouraging for me but I have to move on and I heartily hope to get out of my comfort zone. I would love to have an English-speaking person to practice my English with, and I hope it comes as soon as possible.
From your comment it seems to me that your knowledge of English is at a very high level and your written English is close to perfect. I agree with your sentiments regarding learning the basics, I think rather than "Don't study the basics" it should be something such as "Study the basics but don't get stuck on them, progress by using the language in its many forms and don't worry about making mistakes". However, that wouldn't make a good title for a UA-cam video. 🙂
@@charlesanddiana Thanks a bunch for your nice feedback 🤗.
In fact now I do learning French, I learn it by two different languages, exactly English and Spanish, two different orders indeed. It really helps me to learn French really fast. I will keep on learning different languages using different languages orders to learn. In fact my mother tongue is Chinese, but I use the English order to teach a kid Chinese, who is an English speaker, and which is super effective. For example: 爐火純青, I teach him “stove, fire, pure, light green”, put a sword on the stove to burn until light green, which means really familiar with something.
Having learned French, German & Spanish to various levels - I'd say that you must have some core knowledge of the language to get started
- then you have that core to draw on when you step out & try to use it for real
- without that you'd be lost - at least I would
Having said that - the core doesn't have to be large - just enough to get going - trying to use the language is a great teacher
- main tip there - try to communicate & expect to make errors - you'll get feedback & get further faster.
Good comment. So basically yes you DO need to "learn the basics" in some capacity. Not all of us are lucky enough to have native speakers constantly correcting us (like we did with our native language).
To me 'natural order' starts at the very beginning: the first things infants do when learning to speak is hone their ear and speech to phonetics.
I've found it very helpful to study the IPA and the relative phonology of the language I am learning (I like going between a few). I couldn't even grasp anything in many of the Asian languages until I took the time to understand the sounds, to then understand the letters, to the morphemes, to the words, and eventually sentences. It doesn't matter what my mind can parse if the interpretation is stops at my ears.
Maybe it's not reasonable to teach that to students in public school, yet it would be so much more useful to me now than the few years of German and French that I have completely forgotten.
Pra mim o sr é um superman
Um feito invejável para qualquer pessoa
Tento aprender a falar em Francês
Conjugation is important in understanding different dialects
Some have formal and familiar forms and when to apply them
Exposure to language naturally occurs in your method
Seeing the written word helps to learn the proper pronunciation and shows the education of an individual
Proper language keeps the language alive
Great video! While I'm Indian, my first language is English, and when I moved back to India from abroad, I had to learn the local language, Kannada, to get around. My language acquisition was just like how you said. I heard people speak for a couple years and imitated it, got ridiculed sometimes too, but eventually, I attained moderate fluency, and I can now read (although my vocabulary is very small and I can't understand many words). Like you said, I couldn't learn the basics. I was thrown into the advanced level right off the bat, and it actually really helps.
What do you mean by the basics? It could mean a lot of different things. Learning daily language could be considered the basics, but being able to do so well is incredibly useful. Getting ahead of yourself and studying something way above your level is a quick way to burnout -- like reading a text you only know half the words for. I think it might be better to say don't get caught up in small details. Just keep going and you'll get better at them.
Steve's video here kinda sucks. It's vague and he rambles. He's not specific at all which is ironic because he's supposed to be a language expert.
Great video. Agreed, but not by consciously ignoring learning them when necessary at various points in time as we go along. Meanwhile it has to be said the basics of many or the majority of languages can be studied and got familiarised with in a matter of days. So no harm in going over them let say by reading a book picking up whatever one can and then putting the book back on the shelf, perhaps referring to it occasionally later when needed.
Can only agree. From my own experience of learning German (in Germany) as a native English speaker. In the early stages I did take a free language course but actually, although some things did stick in my memory, most of the grammar completely overwhelmed me and I had the feeling too much information was actually holding me back. At this time I also cut off nearly all ties with British expats, and made the conscious decision to learn the new language very much as a baby would. I should point out that I was in my late twenties at the time. In my school years I had to study French, and for various reasons I was absolutely terrible, they said it was a waste of time and money me even attempting an O level, although I had a few years previously without difficulty passed the Oxford/Cambridge University English entrance exam. (Sounds impressive, but all the kids in my Grammar school took it and everyone passed, regardless. Not a big deal. I also had spent time previously in Spain, mostly 2 to 3 months at a time, and had noticed I felt 'comfortable' with the language, picking up on the rhythm of the spoken language, and while very little understanding of the grammar, I had subconsciously picked up an relatively extensive vocabulary and was confident enough to attempt to communicate. And all the time due to my school experience in French, I was completely convinced that learning foreign languages was beyond me. To cut a long story short, I'm still living in Germany after 50 years, can speak fluently, I complete daily a German crossword in the local newspaper, I can normally pick out most of the German and Austrian dialects, (can even imitate some of the easier ones), occasionally attempt (via UA-cam) to improve my grammar, but I never put myself under pressure, and only learn new grammar topics when I feel I've mastered what I've learnt and can can use it intuitively, meaning without thinking. Oh, I should mention that in my initial years in Germany ( West Berlin) it took me about 5 years before I trusted myself, without feeling very self conscious, to actually string a sentence together, actually nearly all my German friends were happy to be improving their English at my expense. But once I did start, and if course I was told often I was making mistakes, I never reverted back to speaking English. Later my parents told me I was speaking English with a German accent. Can you believe.
This is the first video I can watch and listen to without subtitles. Thank you for your content and your App is amazing.
I totally agree. I am a language teacher and because a love learning languages, I communicate it by just enjoying and having fun with it. Immersion by listening, singing, and just saying it, and have fun with it.
Looking back at my journey of English learning as a non-native speaker, I can't agree more with Steve. It's very true that while the basics are important, what is more important is actually Using the Language as much as possible as you go! Speak it, listen to it, and write it... MORE! That's the key and the ONLY way to get better at picking up a new language and there is no other secret to it! How I wish to have an English teacher like Steve back in my school days who is so realistic and practical on the learning process, and I can't believe that I haven't subscribed to this great teacher yet (and just done so!). Those bad teachers in the school should just be fired right away!
Cada vez mais eu fico feliz de ser falante nativo de português, ele ajuda com a pronuncia e entendimento de muitas línguas
What are the languages you have found it easy to learn because you are native Portuguese speaking
Spanish, Italian, FRENCH@@TargetLaboratorysystems
During my study of English in school I had to learn almost only grammar and paradigmas of forming sentences. I truly began to learn English when I began to read magazines and books written in English without worring too much about grammatics.
I just stumbled upon this video, and I found it fascinating. This is the way I have been teaching myself, and I kept thinking I was going about it all wrong. I learned some French vocabulary and pronunciation. I then started to watch some French language TV shows, and very quickly I was able to recognize some words and phrases. Before long I was able to stitch a few words together and make some sense of it. Long way to go, but I feel better about my approach after seeing this video. Thanks Steve!
I’m doing exactly the same regarding French and have made more progress by myself in 2 weeks than in the year I took French at school. I can make simple sentences but what’s more important is that I got used to the sound and pace of language and I’m starting to replicate it.
Your videos are by far the best language learning videos I've heard in my life.
I partially agree. For second language acquisition we use a different part of our brains so more conscious effort is required. In this case language learning skill becomes a factor. Some people are better than others. Things won't fall into place on their own without actively correcting mistakes. If you are aiming for comprehension in conversation then I see your point, as long as you can understand others and you get the gist of things it's fine. The thing is people don't learn language that way. People can live in a country for years and pick up very little. I don't enjoy imitating a phrase if I don't know where it comes from and what it really means. I admit that's a separate interest in languages per se, but without some kind of ladder to climb people lose interest. Just showing up and absorbing through osmosis works for young children because our brains are primed to receive it, but when we are older it's different. For Portuguese I have taken no classes and I can read and understand it well enough because of my girlfriend, so I totally skipped the basics with that one, but with Japanese I had to really deep dive to even be able to form sentences properly. I'm on both sides I suppose
Very smart,will read again,like the piece about, people who have lived in a different language country for years but have not progressed in language, it highlights the importance of effort,belief ,encouragement and motivation and I think you can add environment to that as well👍
This is a good point. I'm insecure about things I haven't studied to understand the 'root system'. I'm just that kind of person.
Good points. There's a very big difference between child language acquisition and adult 2nd language acquisition. In the latter, to get really good at it requires at least some formal study. No way around that.
I agree. I've been teaching foreign language to adults for the past 13 years.
I can clearly separate every class into "book learners" and "learn by ear" students right away, on the first day.
I have to combine techniques in order to teach both types of students.
@@tabletalk33i don't know man. I'm 17 now but i learned english solely by consuming media. Im from iran and therefore a native persian speaker. I was around 13 when I started to pay attention at what character and people said in English in video games i played and shows i watched. I wasn't exactly a child yet i managed to learn English without studying anything.
I think it just comes down to yourself. Im learning russian too, by their consuming media.
"Focus on enjoying the language" I loved that reflection
I use frequency lists if available to narrow down to the words you MUST know in a foreign language. While it is true that the common words may show up anyway, oddities can arise, depending on what texts you encounter. For example in learning German I naturally learned Gesicht ("face") quite early but it was not long after that I encountered Antlitz, which means the same thing but is poetic and literary, and found in a work of 19th century literature. But Gesicht is a lot more useful to learn.
Foreign language learning is compelled to adopt the habit of enthusiasm to the concerned language.Thanks Steve for your valuable message related to language learning.🎉❤
Thank you so much! I am learning now finnish and just got tired and watched this video. It gives me a new perspective!
I actually enjoy learning the basics. I need verb charts etc and the classic, traditional way of studying languages. I know I am a mutant.
This might be true for most people but not for everybody. I personally suck at immersion, I have to _know_ the basics, especially grammar, to remember and especially use a language. Right now I'm learning Slovak and encountered the phrases for 'How do you do?' (Ako sa maš?) and just couldn't remember it. Only when I deconstructed it and found out that the individual words meant 'How yourself make you?" I remembered it. But I still have to construct it in my mind from time to time. So, shout out to people who can do all this natural learning but that there are other people who need the guidelines of grammar and rules ; )
I think the key is to not get stuck on trying to learn everything "perfectly", because eve as a native English speaker, the chances are most people you talk to can't tell you how the grammar works and aren't perfect in their speaking, writing, etc... No one has a perfect grasp on anything, especially language. I am a perfectionist studying Mandarin, so I kind of understand the points hes making. Sometimes we get way too caught up trying to make sure everything is perfect. Study the basics in the shallow end, but dive into the deep in every once in a while and try to use your skills to swim.
This would be the longest way of learning for me. I would try to learn this phrase by trying to remember the sequence of first letters of words - a s m.
He isn't saying to disregard the basics, only to beaware not to trip over them. As in your case, they can be a valuable tool, but its only one of the tools, even if its youre most comfortable.
Thank you for all your replies. Of course I'm also trying to get comfortable with the language. Vienna is close to Slovakia so I can switch on Slovak radio and listen to it - and I'm always very happy when I understand a word or two ; )
But grammar and vocabulary are my path, my ladder.
Anyway, it's fun so I started a channel about my experience learning Slovak. If you're interested here's the link:
ua-cam.com/video/CiYqr9nfvrk/v-deo.html
I also need a foundation to build on.
The most successful way to learn a language is to immerse yourself into it where you have no choice but to use what you know, and ask lots of question about what you don't. Like everything else, it's a question of degree of practice.
learn something you really like in the language you want to learn, that is how I improved my English, I just wanted to learn computer programming by myself, but most of the resources are written in English language and most of the video lessons are in English language, so to learn computer programming I had to follow those resources, I always focused on computer programming not on English, but eventually without noticing my English has been improved, I know that there are some many mistakes in my English but they will be fine. this is my experience and I hope this may help to somebody, thanks.
Enjoying the language maybe is the key role when learning a new language.
Thank you very much for this video!
If you want to learn a language you need to practice : speaking , reading , listening. If you want learn efficently , learn the basics. Basics are not enough but practicing without basics is a pain.
thank you :)
I cant agree more!
♥️
This! In most languages it's much more efficient to learn the basics in tandem with high exposure to native language content. English imo is not a very good example precisely bc its basics compared to any other language are very... well.. basic! 😁 True, whether it's "he goes" or "he go" IS inconsequential but only because none of the other persons require a (differently) conjugated verb. I'm learning Finnish now and I am experiencing in real time how learning new grammar helps me improve my understanding and speaking from week to week. W/o that it's just total chaos, and being exposed to language that is levels beyond my skills and comprehension is overwhelming, frustrating, demotivating and physically exhausting. I'd much rather learn those basics than have to constantly struggle with my lack of knowledge and the resulting inefficiency.
Don't forget to add listening to that list! Listening is passive, whilst speaking is active.
I remember taking French lessons and being really put off by the way the teacher was teaching the basics. It was more like a maths lesson than a language lesson. The same in Chinese. It can really put one off learning a language. I met a Chinese girl who had never been out of China and both her English and her accent were great. I asked her where she studied and which country she had been to. She told me she hadn't studied, had never left China and only learned English by watching the TV show called Friends using her computer.
My ex gf literally has the exact same story. How many ppl learned via friends??? Wtf
@@khuntasaurus88 The interesting thing is, I met a second girl in Beijing who had done the exact same thing. One note of interest, there is a cafe in Beijing which is based on the cafe in the Friends TV series, it looks exactly like it. They had a large screen running the various Friends shows on a loop so people could drink or eat and watch it. I used to work in the same building, although my favourite cafe was in a different building across the street from this one which showed a different film every night usually in English but sometimes other foreign films too. It was free. No hard back chairs, comfortable sofas in front of tables with soft lamp lighting. All of the regulars were Chinese except for me, it was like a little club. That cafe and that area (nearby The Place) was my favourite place in Beijing. It even inspired me to write a fictional story based on it.
I like the concept. The problem is the definition of what the basics are. The rules of grammar are not the basics. They are advanced. And when you speak by rules you are inherently forcing translation as the language approach rather than spontaneous utterance. If you want basics just look at language progression in native speaking children. When the learner duplicates the errors that are expected (the “eated” past tense is perfect) you’ll be on to what the basics of the language really are.
I’ve applied the concept of avoiding translation to teaching how to use an endoscope. The classic way is to have the student memorize which knob is up-down and which is right-left. Always a miserable experience. I now tell them the top knob is Barbies head go there there with right hand, airplane climb or dive with left thumb. I get instantly proficient assistants with less than 60 seconds of training. The concept is translation as training builds in lack of fluency, so you must avoid translation.
Something worth exploring are underlying lessons from linguistics. I don’t know linguistics, but here’s something cool. In English the phrase “tic-tok-toe” is the natural order of the words. Also, the tongue touch within the mouth moves from front to back with those words. In German the articles “Der Die Das” (pronounced der dee dus (Das comes out like the dus in dusty but with an “a” tone)) are always mentioned in that order, and that obeys the front to back rule. I wouldn’t teach that as a rule, but as a teacher that sort of knowledge could inform language teaching design.
Thank you! As a nursery school teacher I’ve always thought that “natural way “ to learn is The best one. Quarelling a lot with others teachers I really appreciate your contribution, thank you thank you thank you.
I can only say thank you... your words are a salve to my broken self confidence. I now give myself permission to thoroughly enjoy my language learning journey without certain "you need to do it like this or you can't succeed" hang-ups.
Subscribing as soon as I'm done typing this 😁
I have to say learning the basics especially of French and Spanish has helped me a lot to develop fluency in both languages but I have not only concentrated on that but as well on vocabulary and especially speaking practice at the same time. So I don't really agree.
Also, what is the harm in perfect the grammar and use advance or perfect vocabularies to communicate. What he said was eventually you will get it when you hear the word (10 times), yet I think that’s holding my progress back. Say if no one say a particular vocabulary to me, but I am desperate in need of a word to describe a particular meaning, god forbid me to look up the dictionary and learn the word, cuz you should not force yourself in basic, the words will come into your mind one day when someone says to you more then once.
Well, not everything works out the same for everyone. I agree that it’s a good idea to look up new words and try to learn them in context. The dictionary became my beloved sidekick since I was a child. By the same token, and in my experience now that I began studying italian two months ago, one can learn a lot faster not necessarily by putting all our energy into the basics, but rather by immersing ourselves completely a couple of hours per day. A lot of reading, a lot of listening has started to pay off for me.
@@myutwocar Learning the basics has helped me a lot especially in my initial contact with language learning at school and later on at university whether English, French or Spanish. The more recent ones ( Valencian/Catalan and Dutch ) are languages that I'm learning more by linguistin immersion ( by being surrounded ( Valencian ) or a mix of learning and improvising ( Dutch ). It works somehow, especially when your mother tongue ( German in my case ) is close. I'm basically saying learn a language by whatever works out but I don't like the dos and don'ts.
That is such a more logical advice. It is is unfair what those polyglots are doing on UA-cam. They are transforming people into totally passive learners that will search for an eternal perfect material for graded readers. Or translate full texts to say they are applying Stephen k method. When Hugo, FSI, coloquial do not use this Sk stuff and people learn a lot there.
If they had some respect for our passion, they wouldn't be eliminating the other methods that are so important for the people who are startingggggg
This reminds me so much of how i've acquired English as my second language throughout my younger years. I've never understood grammatical terms that came with learning it such as verb, pronoun, adjective but somehow it felt natural due to constant immersion of English content growing up. You do pick it up and get better overtime
Same! People reading this, prove that technique, it works!
The problem I have with this theory about not learning basics, is that when you learn basics, just like speaking, you are learning and repeating certain words that keep showing up. Just like when you read anything else. I try not to dwell too much on grammar, but not giving it any importance seems a little silly to me.
I doubt any one will ever have the best formula for teaching anything. It depends more on the students. And their engagement to commit to learning, and how well they want to learn said language.
Its a debate of
Bottom up vs top down
I prefer bottom up.
@@micaelat3734 Not necessarily. Imo this is Pareto at work (the 80:20 thing). You can get along in a language on very little vocabulary and grammar. People that have a reason to do so will make an effort to understand you, and won't waste their time correcting small errors or alerting you of your accent when they get what you're saying. Also, you may not get every little pun and side remark in the books you read, but you can keep turning pages and follow the plot even if you realize that some lines don't make sense to you. This seriously flattens the learning curve once you get along satisfactorily unless you keep immersing yourself deeper into the language.
There was a time when I thought my Engish had gotten pretty good. But when reading books I still realize sometimes that there are corners of the language where I competely lack any vocabulary, like when in the Game of Thrones novels there are bits where it goes into horse-related stuff, or when I try to read more sophisticated literature, where expressions go one or two steps above "street level".
I taught English as a foreign language for 40 years. I agree with you in general but don't forget that English grammar is exceptionally simple. I mean it is easy to get started in English. Not so even for Latin languages. The Portuguese for "go" is "ir": Eu vou; tu vas; você, o/a senhor/a, ele, ela va; nós vamos, eles/elas vão. Have I forgotten anything? So it's pretty impossible to say anything without making a fool of yourself. The Portuguese tend to be very forgiving and say, "It's alright, you can speak English with me".
I like your style. I re-familiarized myself with Irish by doing the dishes and having native speaker broadcasters playing in the background online. Passive absorption! Comprehension improved with time. Infants don't set to learn a language, they are immersed in it and so acquire it. (Some people love learning grammar, that's fine.) I'm now working on improving my French. Maith thú.
The best advice I heard is to identify the most difficult aspect of the language you're learning and then completely ignore it. In German, I don't worry about noun genders, in Spanish I don't worry about conjugation, in Mandarin I don't worry about tones, in Polish I don't worry about spelling. As long as I get my basic idea across, it's a win, and if I'm ever in a situation where I'm using these languages all the time, I'll just pick it up as I go. I'm not trying to write poetry, just buy a drink and find the bathroom!
The most difficult aspect of Polish is spelling?! It is one of those langauges where the spelling is quite regular...
@@EECyrpys I dunno, the random string of 5 Cs and Zs in the middle of each word was messing with me, so I switched to a different app that didn't make me spell
@@estoy_aprendiendo_espanyol I kinda agree with you, but I think commentator's idea was that you shouldn't dwell on hard elements of the language the whole time. And ignoring them for the time being is a truly useful advice
Of course it is and a lot of Polsih people make spelling mistakes themselves! There are hundreds of rules and even more exceptions. :p
And you are right to do so, as a Polish citizen if I knew that you are learning the language I would totally give 100% tolerance to your spelling mistakes.
Great advice,now I feel less presure about learning language.
I tested myself at Spanish yesterday to review my level. It seems I have still not yet mastered "the basics". I was a bit annoyed but then soon realised if I'm ticking things off, to go through certain criteria the process would not be enjoyable. And then today I had a lightbulb moment 💡 I decided to do my warm up before my run, watching stretches in Spanish on UA-cam with reggaeton blasting in the background. Eureka!
Hello, do not trust the online test, you could actually be intermediate. I am a native french speaker and I hardly get advanced to an online French test. You should try to test your English, and you will see with your own eyes. The main reason for that is that the website want to seel you their product, the lower they assess you, the more products they sell.... I want to make a video on my channel about this, subscribe if you are interestted.
Don't worry, it's normally for example I have been study English for a time and Still I can't to learn, I can understand some words or read the basic but it's normally
If do you need help with your spanish, I can help you and you help me with my English haha
@@jesusbp3635 Muchas gracias pero no quiero aprender espanol... quiero aprender otras idiomas .... take care
@JesusBP muchas gracias para tú responder. Es posible pero estoy ocupado en momento. Estoy muy feliz entiendo cosas simples en español. Es un poco.
As a student who wants to study English as a second language, I totally agree with you with the sentence: “Language is not the thing that ‘LEARNED’, but ‘ACQUIRED.’”
that is true i am fluent in english (english is my second language) and i never ever in my entire life have studied for at least a minute. i learned it like it was my first language, like a child hearing and repeating words. and the funniest part is that it only took like 6-8 months of just watching minecraft videos
"Focus on enjoying the language." This really is the best advice. Thank you!
I agree you. It's the most important part of journey.
❤I am learning German and pretty much agree with you, I am loving the process.
So true. I have taken Japanese in my college and German when I was working for a German company, the people around me who enjoyed learning, even though they were slower and did mistakes in the beginning, learnt the language much faster as couple of weeks went by.
Thanks, those are really good pieces of advice that I have been experiencing myself! Learning a language is a long-term process, but when you enjoy it, it's very delightful to learn!
I think the biggest problem with typical language learning classes is that they don't teach to actually get you to understand the language, but they teach to get you to be able to speak it on some level as fast as possible. I think this is best explained with examples from my own experience learning Japanese, both in a classroom and outside of it through "exposure" (lots of anime and J-Pop.) In class, the first thing we learned (after learning hiragana) were common phrases such as "excuse me," "I'm sorry," and "thank you." Then after that, we learned the polite form of some basic verbs. We didn't even learn about dictionary/casual form until the middle of the second semester, since they didn't want to risk us being rude by using dictionary form first. We still haven't learned casual past-tense either! This represents a very different goal than starting with dictionary form, or the base form of a verb, away from understanding the language, and giving students the fastest way to speak it instead. Another thing I noticed is that we've only recently learned about noun clauses (putting a casual form noun before a verb to make the verb and the stuff before it describe the noun), when it was literally the second piece of grammar I picked up naturally from exposure to the language, and that's because the concept is really difficult to understand at first, but so commonly used that it barely took me any time to stop noticing it. This reasoning does actually make sense once you look at it from another angle though: Students are going to get really demotivated if the language is too hard at first. This is why we had to wait so long for things like noun clauses, because even despite how fundamental it is, after seeing how many students struggle with it, if it was introduced in 1st year instead of 3rd, half of the kids would end up dropping the class. It's unfortunate, but lots of language classes and programs are tailored for casual learners and not the people who want to put in 100% effort and really build up an understanding of the language.