I’m still building up my Gen 1 2years later. Buying something stock, or close to it, and building it up over time, has helped ease the financial burden. I bought the bumpers and bypass cage direct from SVC and installed them myself (frame cut front and dove tail rear) plenty of wrenching/content for the channel!
And she’s made it flying all cliffs and all too. Problem we have is the main suspension bits like the full mid travel kit always needs a shop since we can’t weld. And if we are going down to a Gen1, I want better suspension. We will be able to do all the bumpers and all that. But the expensive part still has to be done by others.
Great video, I agree with you on how the raptors have gone up in price. I bought mine a year ago for around 34,000.00 with 75,000 miles and now I see them going for 46,000.00 for the same mileage. I have never owned a truck that went up in price before. Did you ever think about getting another 17? The reason I ask is because you feel that is the best year. Also that would also make all the parts you have now work.
Biggest lesson _ don’t buy your dream off-road toy it if you have finance it... that 04 f150 was the best deal for a build. Just need to LS swap it and get rid o the 3 valve. Don’t finance!!!!
Dude, not everyone has the cash to do that. Including me. Most talk about it as it’s simple and just pay cash for the whole built. But most Americans don’t even have $5k in savings let alone the $40k for that old build.
Very well put together video!!!! Ghost followed on a few videos, you locked me in as a subscriber. Glad you ran numbers for most to see and included KBB price as well to give a realistic expectation, must people just assume the banks will finance it all!
🤣🤣 Wife talked me down and I’m keeping the e39. Would have regretted selling it. But yeah man. I get guys telling me just buy it, just build it. And not of one of them has done it or understand how much money each requires. So i had to put the video together.
Building has another factor, TIME. Getting work done is time consuming, both getting on someone's schedule and the actual time in the shop. Also, getting shocks and other parts can bog things down too. What I did was coordinate with my builder to order the parts and get them in before dropping off the truck. That means paying some of the build cost up front, so you know about the shop thats going to do the work, don't get ripped off. I also had an issue with distance, I'm in Nor Cal and my builder is in Murrieta, CA which is a long ways from me and from an airport. I had to do one-way car rentals from John Wayne Airport instead of Uber to drop off and pickup, but it was worth the effort. I hope to see you guys out there soon!
Time is a huge factor. The smaller the shop the longer the wait too. shocks have a very long wait time right now too and if anything goes wrong or is missing during installation a simple 2 week install can easily take a few months.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I know it first hand, though its not so bad if you don't plan on daily driving it. Mine is my backup commuter that I drive the 25 mile round trip to work, once or twice a week, to keep everything in running order. Good luck with your search, looking forward to updates.
I'm cautious when it comes to buying any truck that was custom built. A good inspection is key... I'm also not opposed to building a truck as I have done in the past.
Yeah. With a custom truck you always run the risk of inheriting someone else’s mistakes or issues. We found a few on our build but overall still happy and we saved some money than having it built.
Personally since we bought our 2010 5.4L V8 RaptorSVT, we never planned on fully kitting it out. We just rebuilt the suspension, added a wrap, and added Method rims and tires. Andddd generally we just did not think of building it so I would recommend for you guys a buy and then build it yourself would be good, but anyways This is an epic video!
The challenge we have is if we stay stock, a Gen2 Raptor is far better. For the same money we could try and find a mid travel Gen1 and that is a far better truck. But a stock Gen1 is a huge downgrade from the Gen2.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I completely agree with you that it is a downgrade and a big downgrade from a Gen2 to a Gen1 but hopefully you guys will find the perfect Raptor!
I'd still go gen 1 and just save up and build it up as you go, the bad bit to a built up truck is you don't know the shortcuts someone's already taken to get it to that point. You have the wheels/tyres, becage, leafs, you've pretty much got the essentials already sitting there. Just to throw a spanner in the works, what about a wrecked f150 and build it up as an offroad toy
Problem is cost. We have buy and rehab money right now. Not build money. Salvage now you have to add the cost of the truck and further reducing our budget.
No, we listed a few in the video with race desert being the most updated and most well known. BUT I’ve found auto trader and car gurus is the best for searching.
Helio, Well met sir. Long time viewer, first time commenter. Just wanted to add a vote from the peanut gallery regarding your decision to buy a pre-built truck or to build one. As the owner of a 2020 Raptor bought for the express purpose of getting off-road to have a bit of fun, I’ve watched most of, if not all of, your videos to date, and even taken notes on many of the upgrades that you’ve done, both on the old truck and the new truck. I’ve noted your opinions on front coils, rear leaf springs, bump stops, headlights, chase racks, radios, 35s vs. 37s, and on and on, making note of which options I wanted to try and which I might pass on. And that brings me to my peanut gallery vote. I, as someone learning from your upgrade efforts, install videos, experienced reviews and opinions, benefit by watching you research your equipment, purchase it, install it, put it through the paces and then give us your impressions of how well its doing its job. If you purchase a base truck, and walk through that upgrade path, we continue to learn, continue to watch you explain your decision making process, and, most importantly perhaps, continue to find inspiration in doing similar upgrades. If you choose to purchase a truck that is already built, we might have the chance to see you rehab a few of that truck’s weaker links, but we’ll miss out on the opportunity to learn from another great truck build and the reasoning behind the choices made during that process. With those thoughts in mind, I hope that you will choose to find a vehicle with great potential and walk us through another great Helio build. Regardless of which option you choose to pursue, I just wanted to say thank you for some truly inspiring content, and I hope to see thousands of miles worth of new adventures in your future. Respectfully, Bill
Thanks Bill. Very good points. The main challenge we have right now is I have buy & rehab budget. We don’t have build money yet. We need to double our budget to get there. We could start out small and build up, but at that same time we want to go play too and going down to a Gen1 from the Gen2 is a big step down. Other concern is time. Shocks have long lead times right now, and all the suspension work would have to be done at a shop because of the welding involved. That’s also ads time. The search for a built up Gen1 is proving difficult, so the choice may be made for us here soon. We will have to see and weight our options.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Is there a possible path forward where you buy another Gen 2, reinstall the upgrades that you already have, and, if your first Gen 2 really was a lemon, you prove it when the new Gen 2 doesn't exhibit the Death Shake. If it's a systemic problem within the entire Gen 2 lineup, you also prove that if the new truck exhibits the Death Shake. There's a risk there of course, but how do you weigh the odds? Alternatively, I know your wife has a Rubicon, which we've seen you feature in high speed runs. Could be really interesting to see how a Gladiator Mojave compares to both the Rubicon and Raptors in high speed runs, both stock and with whatever upgrades you deemed necessary in time. It's good to have options I guess.
Gen2 is not an option. While my 20 saw the death Shake happen consistently and often, I did observe it on my 17 after I put 37s on right before the accident. It was no where near as bad on the 17. But as soon as I did major suspension changes up front, it was clear the EPAS was going to be a weak point. At first I though it was normal. But as my 20 started doing it more and more I realized it was not normal. With the 20 have more electronic systems, I think the problem got worse. Gen3 could be an option, BUT it will have the same steering rack and have way more electronics. I’m very hesitating to go that route because of the price. I also would not do many upgrades to a Gen3 because of the high risk of it coming back. Don’t want Ford another excuse to void the warranty. So the best path forward is more analog truck. The Jeep is not really an options. A stock Mojave Jeep is not really all the capable, has not skid plates, way to low, and way too underpowered. And it’s uncomfortable to boot. The cost to upgrade a Jeep to fast off-roading and long travel is on par with the Raptor. And no where near as capable.
Not a person that's in the raptor game but like them. I never knew they were so expensive to build. Makes me glad I stick to diesels because I wouldn't have any money with a raptor.
Lol, yeah. Building up the suspension on any truck gets expensive when you avoid the worthless cheap “lift kits”. Fully functional suspension travel is expensive.
I'm having the same dilemma but with a 350 for towing. Buy it new and have some peace of mind but pay around 90k for it or go used save 10-15k depending on milage and options but not knowing the history
F350 prices are NUTS. I used to make a SRW F350 that I loved. kings ranch even. Would have never paid $90k for it. Now a DRW F450 is over 100k. Completely nuts.
I completely missed that. That takes the value down further even thought the platinum trucks are more rare than the Raptor, they don’t hold their value as well
Yeah, very true. But even if it has the 5.0, it’s not worth it. The raptor has the drive modes, the torque on demand diff and the torsion front diff. Very few that start with a F150 add any of those parts, further taking the value down. This is maybe a $60k build now max.
My opinion would be buy a stock gen 1 and build it up to your liking little by little and on the flip side more content for those that may be starting up with a stock gen 1 like my self! Either way pumped up for what will come to the channel👍🏽
So this is a common request. So I have to ask if you have $40k-60k to do it yourself? Even with us doing some of the work, 90% of the suspension work has to be done by a shop because of the welding required.
When you ask if I had 40-60k are asking total budget including cost of vehicle or play money for project? Either way for the build you are going for I would my self take to a shop and would imagine it wouldn’t be cheap.. me personally going for a solid mild build on my gen 1 nothing crazy was able to get one thru carmax literally 1 yr owing it had to replace front rear shocks luckily carmax warranty came thru!
I’m talking just budget yo upgrade a truck you already have. In order to do a truck and do it all, bumper to bumper build your budget needs to be in the 40k-60k range on top of the price of the truck. There are no low cost options. Most of the kits cost around the same, and there is a lot that goes into a build.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad and that is my raptor will stay a budget build 🤣🤷🏽♂️ I’ll get the satisfaction of a full proper build gen 1 from your channel lol
I bought a new 2017 f150 5.0 xlt and built it full suspension upgrades fenders with paint full exhaust and raptor rearend frame cut bumper totals the same price i would have spent for a new stock raptor. It's a no brainer
I hear this a lot but when you take a look, there is a lot missing for the price. Did you go for a Raptor suspension swap or full mid travel with 16in of travel up front and 18in out back? What about axles and all that?
I still think for you plus your channel getting a Pavement Princess and then you build it is the best. #1 Probably more dependable # 2 You build what you want #3 Tons of content for your channel ( That will help pay for the build) #4 Personally building it will give you better insight when things break, you won't be trying to chase ghosts from some other persons crazy ideas.
I would normally agree. But with a Bolt kit, welding is required. We don’t know how to weld so most of the suspension work would be done at a shop. We would only be installing the bumpers, bumps stops and anything else that can be bolted. So not much content for our followers.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I totally get that, with the type of truck you're doing, not only should you know how to weld it has to be NEXT LEVEL to take the abuse. I'm rooting for you and your family, God bless and good luck, I'll keep watching.
Dude. I wish I could be like you and off-road like this. I’m just a poser in my Raptor. Keep on keeping it real and don’t Jeep wave lol. This shit isn’t cheap!!! I love how you still find a way bro!! You’ll find one eventually.
Lol, thanks man. Don’t think because you have a stock truck you can’t go play as hard. We get stock trucks all the time on my runs. Just run within your limits and built up your experience
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I’m in Oklahoma all I’ve got is Little Sahara which is nice but they look at you like you’re the next dbag Raptor guy that’s wants to take his truck into the sand. I love how it’s your backyard!!! Never seen someone put a Raptor to the test like you do.
That’s sucks man. I could not imagine being near hundreds of miles of trails like we have here in the west. I hear a lot of east coast guys have the same problem. Tons of mudding, some parks, but that’s it.
19-20 have more electronics and more issues to boot. And the 17s had my favorite color : Avalanche Grey. I had a 17 and that truck was solid. I had way less issues in 3 years with that truck than 1 year with my 2020.
I’m sure at least one of your subscribers can gat you a fair deal. I know I would if I could. I know people at other dealerships unfortunately not ford.
I wish man. When it comes to getting these trucks, there is a long list of people willing to may more than I am. For example, we would so consider a TRX if the markups were not so crazy. Would be great to work with a ship to fix all the issues with that truck.
Right now, that is my last resort. It’s the most expensive option and it still has the same electronic steering rack that the Gen2s have. Chances are I’ll find the limit of that rack too.
Great video! I wanted your opinion on UCA for a gen 1, There’s so many choices by different company’s. What are your thoughts, RPG?Kibbetech? icon? SVC?
Bigger is better. The bigger the ball join the better and longer it will last. The camburg uppers have the largest I think. Icons have a little bit smaller but are unique in that they can be adjusted without removing them. At the end of the day, all the arms are fairly similar and you can’t go wrong with any of them. But also consider the benefits. Just doing a UCA along does not give you much unless you also do slot delete and upgrade the tie rods.
Problem is price man. Raptor prices went up big time, and doing the upgrades myself is literally twice the cost to build compared to finding an already built up truck and rehabbing. And truck selection is very limited right now.
Just curious why not another gen 2 but older gen 2 raptor. You seemed to be happy with your 2017 raptor you have the parts and isn't it more capable. Remember the gen 1 getting stuck in the sand?
We’ve done 2 Gen2s at this point and it’s honestly time to move on to something different. Also, with the way we are driving these days, chances are we are going to run into the death Shake on any truck with EPAS system so I always want to avoid it.
We have a Jeep now. While one of my complaints is that the v6 is way down on power, there is so much more I don’t like with the Jeep that does not make the V8 any more appealing. Main thing being comfort. Jeep is loud, steering is awful, and the seats suck on long trips.
So true.Raptor Is the only truck that holds its value so well. I would say a Raptor holds it value better than the ever popular Tacoma. Shit in the last year alone Raptors have gone up $10k in value. My 2020 is worth more than its MSRP with 20k miles on it. Totally crazy
I did it in phases over a couple years, so it was a little less painful, but I’m close to $35k’ish... but I’m probably forgetting some things, and didn’t add in the stuff like vhf/uhf radio, lowrance & mount, etc
And... people ,,, For this very reason,,, you must have a conversation with your insurance agent... and get it insured for all the value you put into it... you can... I’ve got an extra 20k in value added to my policy... it’s not that much more to pay... it’s definitely worth paying it
Depends on the company though man. I talked to my insurance company about it, since both my boys are in my policy plus that totaled truck, it’s expensive to get the extra coverage
Cool video but you're not right on pricing these things. You're not buying a truck you're buying a shell. You can't compare some of these vehicles. Some rangers worth 2k sell for 50k but it's all tube. So it's appkes to oranges
In the eyes of a bank financing these vehicles none of that matters. At all. The point here is that 99% of us have to finance these trucks. When you finance, you are stuck with what the bank thinks the value of your build is. Aftermarket components don’t increase the value, in fact to some banks, they decrease the value. CarMax is a good example here. A fully stock vehicle is more valuable to them than a modified one and it’s reflected in their estimates. So to buy or build these highly customized trucks takes a lot of money. But unfortunately has no added value except to the guy selling it. Sellers need to find the right buyer willing to pay for all those parts and work. That’s where is gets ever worse. My rule of thumb is mods, no matter how new, are only worth 50% of their original cost. Others are willing to pay more, but we are talking the 1% that would rather build themselves. Most can’t afford more than 10% of a vehicles book value so these already done build have a massive problem with very, very limited buyers further reducing their value. Just throwing out some truth here that no one really talks about. Does not matter what you think your build is worth. At the end of the day it’s about how much the buyer is willing to pay. And it’s a very small pool of guys willing to pay the extra, and even less have the means to do it. Me included.
Great content! I’m looking at buying a 2017 Raptor with only 19k miles and doing the geiser springs with deavers in back. Any other recommendations like upgrading the UCAs? Any ideas a good price to pay on a truck like this? I current drive a 2013 duramax but don’t tow as much as I expected. Also have a CanAm which is more of my crazy off-road fun. Thanks!
Check KBB and nada for pricing man. Gen2s keep their value well and with low miles your easily in the 60s or more. As for upgrades it depends on what your goal is. If your off-roading I got a lot of options I could recommend. If your not expecting much off-roading, the. That setup will be fine
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad thanks. I’m sure I’ll join some of the raptor runs and maybe some others as here in AZ there are tons of groups. Truck obviously would be my daily which isn’t much working from home during this pandemic and off-roaring here and there.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I’ll ask around. I don’t do off-roading with mine. Mainly for everyday and towing the boat on the weekends. You should make a Venmo for the build. I’ll throw in what I can.
For me it’s because it was my first raptor and that thing barely had any problems. Solid truck. And it’s the only year they offered my favorite color Avalanche grey.
For me it’s not something I’m looking at because 1. It has the same steering rack and don’t want to deal with the issues and 2. Because of the extra cost. Upgrading an F150 means you have to upgrade the rear axle. Take off raptor axles are hard to find. So you have to go aftermarket and it’s anywhere between $8k-11k for a new axle. Also, the stock shock buckets would need to be upgraded. A F150 would cost about $10k-14k more to do the same and you still missing a torsion front end and that great torque on demand transfer case
Love this video, very practical real world scenario. Kind of makes me miss the forums from the “old days “ where you could discuss in more detail but now everything has migrated to social media now.
Thanks man, I only do these videos because the of what the forums have turned into. Tons of bad info from guys with no experience. Can’t tell you how many times people will say build it even though it costs twice as much. Have no clue what all of these guys do for s living to have so much money in the bank
🤣 I wish. TRX markups are still insane and Raptor markups will be just as bad if not worse. I’ve been looking for dealers selling at sticker and so far no luck. Those that do come up at MSRP get snatched up quick.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad yeah I do if that’s the route I wanted to go. Gonna buy a 250 and a 5th wheel instead. I know you are in a tough spot, but what other choice do you have? I mean any fully built used truck is going to be cost prohibitive and hard to finance. I’m just spitballing, it may take time but you’d get the truck you want. Go find a Gen 1, and start from there. Or wait for a unicorn.
Thanks man. I have the budget to buy something already built up and rehab it. But I don’t have what I needed to build it. I would need to double what I have now and then some to do it right. A part of me wants to build so it can be done right with what I feel is the best kits. But the time it will take would suck. Easily 6mo + lead time for most key parts plus built time is my main hesitation. I would probably not be done for a year. That’s a long time to be off the trails. Been 2 months so far and I’m going nuts
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad oh I understand. Wasn’t trying to be snarky or anything but just trying to help out as I can. Sometimes getting into a truck and getting off-road while you are building is maybe better? Or take the wife’s Jeep off roading lol.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Do a search on e-bay. In Utah they are bidding on a 2018, $11,900.00 with 26,500 miles. Check it out although the price is ridiculously low. Something is up with that...
I search every site you can and look daily. Out of state is tough for me. I need to see these trucks in person. The Raptor core truck has shown me a truck can have some nice pics, but in person be a total mess
Easier said than done man. I’ve checked out a few trucks that many said were clean and perfect. And they all ended up being massive projects. From what I’ve seen, prices out of state are fairly comparable
No, I have a 10th gen. The 11th gen was a “fillerbuster” for the 12th gen which is what the 1st gen Raptor is. Also... the SuperCrew 11th gens have short front doors. On the 12th gens and up they made the front doors bigger.
Are you one of those Raptor snobs that think you need to be wealthy to get a Raptor? That some people are too good for your Raptor community? I get a lot of snobs try and judge without not knowing anything about me. I have a few rules when I go buy any car. And the number one rule is never finance more than 100%. Never. All the trucks I’ve been looking at are worth more than book value. 20-40k more. I want to make sure I’m getting something good for all that cash. And I would be taking in a 3rd car loan because I can’t offload the my Gen2 till after my lemon law case is over. I have the credit and budget to do it all. But I won’t do it if it means funds are going to be tight.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad No I’m not a Raptor snob. I do have a Gen 2, which I understand that the price I paid can never be considered a smart use of money. And I don’t care because it’s a fun truck. Just commenting on your presentation. At the end of the day, a Raptor is not just a truck, it’s a toy. And toys cost money-fun money-so there’s no way to rationalize dropping $30k cash toward a truck that costs $77k because that $30k is for the fun that comes from the hobby. To justify it like some sort of smart purchasing decision, you’ll always get someone questioning your judgment.
Ah ok, for us it’s not a Toy. For us the Raptor is part of the business. We document the upgrades and adventures for UA-cam and we do group runs for a few groups. We are trying to get something different. We’ve done a lot with the Gen2, and until it’s gone we will still take that truck out. But when looking to replace it, a built up Gen1 seems to be the better option that laying well into the 90s for the Gen3
I’m still building up my Gen 1 2years later. Buying something stock, or close to it, and building it up over time, has helped ease the financial burden. I bought the bumpers and bypass cage direct from SVC and installed them myself (frame cut front and dove tail rear) plenty of wrenching/content for the channel!
And she’s made it flying all cliffs and all too.
Problem we have is the main suspension bits like the full mid travel kit always needs a shop since we can’t weld. And if we are going down to a Gen1, I want better suspension. We will be able to do all the bumpers and all that. But the expensive part still has to be done by others.
Great video, I agree with you on how the raptors have gone up in price. I bought mine a year ago for around 34,000.00 with 75,000 miles and now I see them going for 46,000.00 for the same mileage. I have never owned a truck that went up in price before.
Did you ever think about getting another 17? The reason I ask is because you feel that is the best year. Also that would also make all the parts you have now work.
Yeah, we though about it. But the steering racks stops me everytime. We also have done a lot with the Gen2 platform. Time to try something new.
Biggest lesson _ don’t buy your dream off-road toy it if you have finance it... that 04 f150 was the best deal for a build. Just need to LS swap it and get rid o the 3 valve. Don’t finance!!!!
Dude, not everyone has the cash to do that. Including me. Most talk about it as it’s simple and just pay cash for the whole built. But most Americans don’t even have $5k in savings let alone the $40k for that old build.
Very well put together video!!!! Ghost followed on a few videos, you locked me in as a subscriber. Glad you ran numbers for most to see and included KBB price as well to give a realistic expectation, must people just assume the banks will finance it all!
P.S. don’t sell the Dinan 😩
🤣🤣 Wife talked me down and I’m keeping the e39. Would have regretted selling it.
But yeah man. I get guys telling me just buy it, just build it. And not of one of them has done it or understand how much money each requires. So i had to put the video together.
Building has another factor, TIME. Getting work done is time consuming, both getting on someone's schedule and the actual time in the shop. Also, getting shocks and other parts can bog things down too. What I did was coordinate with my builder to order the parts and get them in before dropping off the truck. That means paying some of the build cost up front, so you know about the shop thats going to do the work, don't get ripped off. I also had an issue with distance, I'm in Nor Cal and my builder is in Murrieta, CA which is a long ways from me and from an airport. I had to do one-way car rentals from John Wayne Airport instead of Uber to drop off and pickup, but it was worth the effort. I hope to see you guys out there soon!
Time is a huge factor. The smaller the shop the longer the wait too. shocks have a very long wait time right now too and if anything goes wrong or is missing during installation a simple 2 week install can easily take a few months.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I know it first hand, though its not so bad if you don't plan on daily driving it. Mine is my backup commuter that I drive the 25 mile round trip to work, once or twice a week, to keep everything in running order. Good luck with your search, looking forward to updates.
Buy a used ford ranger then Camburg the sh*t out of it.
I'm cautious when it comes to buying any truck that was custom built. A good inspection is key... I'm also not opposed to building a truck as I have done in the past.
Yeah. With a custom truck you always run the risk of inheriting someone else’s mistakes or issues. We found a few on our build but overall still happy and we saved some money than having it built.
Great video, really impressed how you outlined the different purchasing pathways in this hobby. 👏
Thanks
Personally since we bought our 2010 5.4L V8 RaptorSVT, we never planned on fully kitting it out. We just rebuilt the suspension, added a wrap, and added Method rims and tires. Andddd generally we just did not think of building it so I would recommend for you guys a buy and then build it yourself would be good, but anyways This is an epic video!
The challenge we have is if we stay stock, a Gen2 Raptor is far better. For the same money we could try and find a mid travel Gen1 and that is a far better truck. But a stock Gen1 is a huge downgrade from the Gen2.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I completely agree with you that it is a downgrade and a big downgrade from a Gen2 to a Gen1 but hopefully you guys will find the perfect Raptor!
I'd still go gen 1 and just save up and build it up as you go, the bad bit to a built up truck is you don't know the shortcuts someone's already taken to get it to that point.
You have the wheels/tyres, becage, leafs, you've pretty much got the essentials already sitting there.
Just to throw a spanner in the works, what about a wrecked f150 and build it up as an offroad toy
Problem is cost. We have buy and rehab money right now. Not build money. Salvage now you have to add the cost of the truck and further reducing our budget.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad always more money to be had, think of the fun, the joy of starting from scratch and building up 😁
But the drawback is time. We’ve been off the trails way too long already and a build is going to take minimum 8-12 months waiting on parts.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad could always borrow the jeep 😛😛
I get what you mean though, so many variables to consider. Start an onlyfans page 😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣 only fans.
Really nice video. Is there a dedicated webside for surching this kind of trucks?
No, we listed a few in the video with race desert being the most updated and most well known. BUT I’ve found auto trader and car gurus is the best for searching.
Helio,
Well met sir. Long time viewer, first time commenter. Just wanted to add a vote from the peanut gallery regarding your decision to buy a pre-built truck or to build one.
As the owner of a 2020 Raptor bought for the express purpose of getting off-road to have a bit of fun, I’ve watched most of, if not all of, your videos to date, and even taken notes on many of the upgrades that you’ve done, both on the old truck and the new truck. I’ve noted your opinions on front coils, rear leaf springs, bump stops, headlights, chase racks, radios, 35s vs. 37s, and on and on, making note of which options I wanted to try and which I might pass on. And that brings me to my peanut gallery vote.
I, as someone learning from your upgrade efforts, install videos, experienced reviews and opinions, benefit by watching you research your equipment, purchase it, install it, put it through the paces and then give us your impressions of how well its doing its job. If you purchase a base truck, and walk through that upgrade path, we continue to learn, continue to watch you explain your decision making process, and, most importantly perhaps, continue to find inspiration in doing similar upgrades. If you choose to purchase a truck that is already built, we might have the chance to see you rehab a few of that truck’s weaker links, but we’ll miss out on the opportunity to learn from another great truck build and the reasoning behind the choices made during that process. With those thoughts in mind, I hope that you will choose to find a vehicle with great potential and walk us through another great Helio build.
Regardless of which option you choose to pursue, I just wanted to say thank you for some truly inspiring content, and I hope to see thousands of miles worth of new adventures in your future.
Respectfully,
Bill
Thanks Bill. Very good points.
The main challenge we have right now is I have buy & rehab budget. We don’t have build money yet. We need to double our budget to get there. We could start out small and build up, but at that same time we want to go play too and going down to a Gen1 from the Gen2 is a big step down. Other concern is time. Shocks have long lead times right now, and all the suspension work would have to be done at a shop because of the welding involved. That’s also ads time.
The search for a built up Gen1 is proving difficult, so the choice may be made for us here soon. We will have to see and weight our options.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Is there a possible path forward where you buy another Gen 2, reinstall the upgrades that you already have, and, if your first Gen 2 really was a lemon, you prove it when the new Gen 2 doesn't exhibit the Death Shake. If it's a systemic problem within the entire Gen 2 lineup, you also prove that if the new truck exhibits the Death Shake. There's a risk there of course, but how do you weigh the odds?
Alternatively, I know your wife has a Rubicon, which we've seen you feature in high speed runs. Could be really interesting to see how a Gladiator Mojave compares to both the Rubicon and Raptors in high speed runs, both stock and with whatever upgrades you deemed necessary in time.
It's good to have options I guess.
Gen2 is not an option. While my 20 saw the death Shake happen consistently and often, I did observe it on my 17 after I put 37s on right before the accident. It was no where near as bad on the 17. But as soon as I did major suspension changes up front, it was clear the EPAS was going to be a weak point. At first I though it was normal. But as my 20 started doing it more and more I realized it was not normal. With the 20 have more electronic systems, I think the problem got worse.
Gen3 could be an option, BUT it will have the same steering rack and have way more electronics. I’m very hesitating to go that route because of the price. I also would not do many upgrades to a Gen3 because of the high risk of it coming back. Don’t want Ford another excuse to void the warranty.
So the best path forward is more analog truck.
The Jeep is not really an options. A stock Mojave Jeep is not really all the capable, has not skid plates, way to low, and way too underpowered. And it’s uncomfortable to boot. The cost to upgrade a Jeep to fast off-roading and long travel is on par with the Raptor. And no where near as capable.
Not a person that's in the raptor game but like them. I never knew they were so expensive to build. Makes me glad I stick to diesels because I wouldn't have any money with a raptor.
Lol, yeah. Building up the suspension on any truck gets expensive when you avoid the worthless cheap “lift kits”. Fully functional suspension travel is expensive.
The other lesson here.... Don't build if you are planning to sell. haha. Great video.
Very good point. I’ve seen a few where people built it, took it out a few times and sold it. Some people 🤦♂️🤦♂️
I'm having the same dilemma but with a 350 for towing. Buy it new and have some peace of mind but pay around 90k for it or go used save 10-15k depending on milage and options but not knowing the history
F350 prices are NUTS. I used to make a SRW F350 that I loved. kings ranch even. Would have never paid $90k for it. Now a DRW F450 is over 100k. Completely nuts.
That 17 I think was not a Raptor. Platinum seats was the give away
I completely missed that. That takes the value down further even thought the platinum trucks are more rare than the Raptor, they don’t hold their value as well
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad also means he put even more work into it to get it where it was. But yes definitely not worth it.
Yeah, very true. But even if it has the 5.0, it’s not worth it. The raptor has the drive modes, the torque on demand diff and the torsion front diff. Very few that start with a F150 add any of those parts, further taking the value down. This is maybe a $60k build now max.
My opinion would be buy a stock gen 1 and build it up to your liking little by little and on the flip side more content for those that may be starting up with a stock gen 1 like my self! Either way pumped up for what will come to the channel👍🏽
So this is a common request. So I have to ask if you have $40k-60k to do it yourself?
Even with us doing some of the work, 90% of the suspension work has to be done by a shop because of the welding required.
When you ask if I had 40-60k are asking total budget including cost of vehicle or play money for project? Either way for the build you are going for I would my self take to a shop and would imagine it wouldn’t be cheap.. me personally going for a solid mild build on my gen 1 nothing crazy was able to get one thru carmax literally 1 yr owing it had to replace front rear shocks luckily carmax warranty came thru!
I’m talking just budget yo upgrade a truck you already have.
In order to do a truck and do it all, bumper to bumper build your budget needs to be in the 40k-60k range on top of the price of the truck. There are no low cost options. Most of the kits cost around the same, and there is a lot that goes into a build.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad and that is my raptor will stay a budget build 🤣🤷🏽♂️ I’ll get the satisfaction of a full proper build gen 1 from your channel lol
Where are you posting the parts up? Which deavers are those? Interested in the deavers and the bumpstop kit.
DM me on my personal Instagram account for details
I bought a new 2017 f150 5.0 xlt and built it full suspension upgrades fenders with paint full exhaust and raptor rearend frame cut bumper totals the same price i would have spent for a new stock raptor. It's a no brainer
I hear this a lot but when you take a look, there is a lot missing for the price.
Did you go for a Raptor suspension swap or full mid travel with 16in of travel up front and 18in out back? What about axles and all that?
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad full prerunner kit baja kits
I’m in the middle of the same this. 2015 f1 full raptor swap minus the reared and has no problem keeping up a stock raptor.
I’m in the middle of the same this. 2015 f1 full raptor swap minus the reared and has no problem keeping up a stock raptor.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad raptor axles front and rear
I still think for you plus your channel getting a Pavement Princess and then you build it is the best. #1 Probably more dependable # 2 You build what you want #3 Tons of content for your channel ( That will help pay for the build) #4 Personally building it will give you better insight when things break, you won't be trying to chase ghosts from some other persons crazy ideas.
I would normally agree. But with a Bolt kit, welding is required. We don’t know how to weld so most of the suspension work would be done at a shop. We would only be installing the bumpers, bumps stops and anything else that can be bolted. So not much content for our followers.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I totally get that, with the type of truck you're doing, not only should you know how to weld it has to be NEXT LEVEL to take the abuse. I'm rooting for you and your family, God bless and good luck, I'll keep watching.
Thanks man. Maybe that’s it. I need to learn how to weld and start making our own shit to build up our experience
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Necessity is the mother of invention! I see you and your kids on the way to a new line of work? Fab shop and building rigs.
Dude. I wish I could be like you and off-road like this. I’m just a poser in my Raptor. Keep on keeping it real and don’t Jeep wave lol. This shit isn’t cheap!!! I love how you still find a way bro!! You’ll find one eventually.
Lol, thanks man. Don’t think because you have a stock truck you can’t go play as hard. We get stock trucks all the time on my runs. Just run within your limits and built up your experience
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I’m in Oklahoma all I’ve got is Little Sahara which is nice but they look at you like you’re the next dbag Raptor guy that’s wants to take his truck into the sand. I love how it’s your backyard!!! Never seen someone put a Raptor to the test like you do.
That’s sucks man. I could not imagine being near hundreds of miles of trails like we have here in the west. I hear a lot of east coast guys have the same problem. Tons of mudding, some parks, but that’s it.
What is the reason for liking the 17 raptor over newer years? Not having the opposing rear shocks?
19-20 have more electronics and more issues to boot. And the 17s had my favorite color : Avalanche Grey.
I had a 17 and that truck was solid. I had way less issues in 3 years with that truck than 1 year with my 2020.
I will keep considering all options until the GEN 3 raptor comes out and then just jump on that with the 37’s of course
It’s hard to pass up. But it’s going to have a crazy matching price tag to go with it
I’m sure at least one of your subscribers can gat you a fair deal. I know I would if I could. I know people at other dealerships unfortunately not ford.
I wish man. When it comes to getting these trucks, there is a long list of people willing to may more than I am. For example, we would so consider a TRX if the markups were not so crazy. Would be great to work with a ship to fix all the issues with that truck.
Wonder if the rear kit would bolt to a gen1 then you'd just need the front kit? Might need some slight modes but...
Won’t bolt on. The rear frame on a Gen1 and Gen2 are very different. Would be more than just drilling.
How about a 2021 3.5 twin turbo raptor. It's built much better then the 2nd gen raptor and u can get it with 37s (tires)
Right now, that is my last resort. It’s the most expensive option and it still has the same electronic steering rack that the Gen2s have. Chances are I’ll find the limit of that rack too.
Hey! Where are the prices for the parts
listed?
DM on me on Instagram with what your interested in and we can go from there. Use my personal account for the quickest response. Both linked below
talked to a guy and Texas Motorworxx and he suggested to buy an F-150 and build from there. I have a Gen 2 but it is my daily driver
Man bro that 🍋 gen 2 really screwed you
Bump stops and the Deaver leafs , how much $ brother ? And the dealers r they #4s
Great video! I wanted your opinion on UCA for a gen 1, There’s so many choices by different company’s. What are your thoughts, RPG?Kibbetech? icon? SVC?
Bigger is better. The bigger the ball join the better and longer it will last. The camburg uppers have the largest I think. Icons have a little bit smaller but are unique in that they can be adjusted without removing them.
At the end of the day, all the arms are fairly similar and you can’t go wrong with any of them. But also consider the benefits. Just doing a UCA along does not give you much unless you also do slot delete and upgrade the tie rods.
Thank you. I will be looking into tie rods. I’m gonna have to look up slot delete?
Yeah. LCA slot delete kits that also reinforce the LCA mounts and moves all alignment adjustments to the top arm with an adjustable upper control arm.
Buy a gen 1. Build it. And do a video on every upgrade. Please and thanks 🤑
Problem is price man. Raptor prices went up big time, and doing the upgrades myself is literally twice the cost to build compared to finding an already built up truck and rehabbing. And truck selection is very limited right now.
Build it. Have it your way.
Plus we get more videos
Just curious why not another gen 2 but older gen 2 raptor. You seemed to be happy with your 2017 raptor you have the parts and isn't it more capable. Remember the gen 1 getting stuck in the sand?
We’ve done 2 Gen2s at this point and it’s honestly time to move on to something different. Also, with the way we are driving these days, chances are we are going to run into the death Shake on any truck with EPAS system so I always want to avoid it.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad what about the hemi jeeps coming out?
We have a Jeep now. While one of my complaints is that the v6 is way down on power, there is so much more I don’t like with the Jeep that does not make the V8 any more appealing. Main thing being comfort. Jeep is loud, steering is awful, and the seats suck on long trips.
It's ironic everyone shits on people for having a pavement princess but in reality that's the only truck worth buying.
So true.Raptor Is the only truck that holds its value so well. I would say a Raptor holds it value better than the ever popular Tacoma. Shit in the last year alone Raptors have gone up $10k in value. My 2020 is worth more than its MSRP with 20k miles on it. Totally crazy
Are your bead-locks for Gen2 Ford forged wheels?
Yep. 17-18 forged wheels. I’ve heard they also fit the Gen1 beadlock wheels
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad let’s get in touch. DM me on Instagram @off_roadx
The ford beadlock rings you have will they fit the '13 -'14 beadlocks? If so I'd be interested in them
Don’t know for sure, but ive heard they do. Check the forums for that one
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad will do, and ill get back to you. Were they off your 2020 or 2017?
@@chrishaugh2872 they both are the same bolt pattern. Only difference is the 19-20s need a notch for the spokes.
Another good video, and even moderately informational... not sure I liked having to remember how much I’ve spent on my truck though; for that 3.5/5
🤣🤣 how much did you spend on your when you first built it?
I did it in phases over a couple years, so it was a little less painful, but I’m close to $35k’ish... but I’m probably forgetting some things, and didn’t add in the stuff like vhf/uhf radio, lowrance & mount, etc
Any good sites or places to search for a truck already built or started besides Facebook
We talked about a bunch of them on the video.
Maybe I'm missing something I watched it three times
You did for sure. We named a bunch
Razedesert
Buysellraptors
Autotrader
Cargurus
Offroadloans
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Well sorry for the inconvenience thanks for replying though
Hello, will the 2nd gen beadlock rings fit 1st Gen beadlock rims ?
I’ve heard they do, they have the same exact bolt pattern. Check the forums, I think a few have done it.
Thank you
You know the man is serious when he's willing to sell his BMW M5!
I really don’t want to, but if we go build route, we are going to need the money.
How much for the bump stop kit? Is it a 2.0 or 2.5?
DM me on Instagram for details. They are 2.5s I think.
And... people ,,, For this very reason,,, you must have a conversation with your insurance agent... and get it insured for all the value you put into it... you can... I’ve got an extra 20k in value added to my policy... it’s not that much more to pay... it’s definitely worth paying it
Depends on the company though man. I talked to my insurance company about it, since both my boys are in my policy plus that totaled truck, it’s expensive to get the extra coverage
You have some of the best graphics in your videos 👍👍👍
Cool video but you're not right on pricing these things. You're not buying a truck you're buying a shell. You can't compare some of these vehicles. Some rangers worth 2k sell for 50k but it's all tube. So it's appkes to oranges
In the eyes of a bank financing these vehicles none of that matters. At all.
The point here is that 99% of us have to finance these trucks. When you finance, you are stuck with what the bank thinks the value of your build is. Aftermarket components don’t increase the value, in fact to some banks, they decrease the value. CarMax is a good example here. A fully stock vehicle is more valuable to them than a modified one and it’s reflected in their estimates.
So to buy or build these highly customized trucks takes a lot of money. But unfortunately has no added value except to the guy selling it. Sellers need to find the right buyer willing to pay for all those parts and work. That’s where is gets ever worse. My rule of thumb is mods, no matter how new, are only worth 50% of their original cost. Others are willing to pay more, but we are talking the 1% that would rather build themselves. Most can’t afford more than 10% of a vehicles book value so these already done build have a massive problem with very, very limited buyers further reducing their value.
Just throwing out some truth here that no one really talks about. Does not matter what you think your build is worth. At the end of the day it’s about how much the buyer is willing to pay. And it’s a very small pool of guys willing to pay the extra, and even less have the means to do it. Me included.
Great content! I’m looking at buying a 2017 Raptor with only 19k miles and doing the geiser springs with deavers in back. Any other recommendations like upgrading the UCAs? Any ideas a good price to pay on a truck like this? I current drive a 2013 duramax but don’t tow as much as I expected. Also have a CanAm which is more of my crazy off-road fun. Thanks!
Check KBB and nada for pricing man. Gen2s keep their value well and with low miles your easily in the 60s or more.
As for upgrades it depends on what your goal is. If your off-roading I got a lot of options I could recommend. If your not expecting much off-roading, the. That setup will be fine
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad thanks. I’m sure I’ll join some of the raptor runs and maybe some others as here in AZ there are tons of groups. Truck obviously would be my daily which isn’t much working from home during this pandemic and off-roaring here and there.
Great video btw.
What bump stop kit is that ?
RPGs bump kit
How can I donate to your new build ?
Help me sell these takeoff parts man. In the future I hope to setup a shop for like t shirts and stuff like that too.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I’ll ask around. I don’t do off-roading with mine. Mainly for everyday and towing the boat on the weekends. You should make a Venmo for the build. I’ll throw in what I can.
Buy a half built truck, and finish it. Odds are that's the best approach
Yeah, that’s a good option but half built truck guys want full built truck prices
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad that's the Covid market for you, I sold my camper and boat for more then I paid for them
Yeah, it’s nuts. Selection is low and a lot of half built projects asking way too much.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad plus all the cool shocks are atleast 6 months out, so any bypass shock is going for more then they cost new
Enjoyed the explanation and break down. Keep looking. I’m sure there’s a retired Raptor driver out there with a vehicle to sell. Stay safe! 🧐
Thanks man. I’m sure we will find something. Just need to be patient.
Build, Build, Build!
🤣🤣🤣
Great video
Thanks
What made 2017s better then 18s?
For me it’s because it was my first raptor and that thing barely had any problems. Solid truck. And it’s the only year they offered my favorite color Avalanche grey.
Build a Gen2 FX4 into a custom raptor
BUILD!!!!!!!!!!
Why not just buy a 2016 or 2017 f-150 for $32,000 and then build it up
For me it’s not something I’m looking at because 1. It has the same steering rack and don’t want to deal with the issues and 2. Because of the extra cost. Upgrading an F150 means you have to upgrade the rear axle. Take off raptor axles are hard to find. So you have to go aftermarket and it’s anywhere between $8k-11k for a new axle.
Also, the stock shock buckets would need to be upgraded. A F150 would cost about $10k-14k more to do the same and you still missing a torsion front end and that great torque on demand transfer case
Love this video, very practical real world scenario. Kind of makes me miss the forums from the “old days “ where you could discuss in more detail but now everything has migrated to social media now.
Thanks man, I only do these videos because the of what the forums have turned into. Tons of bad info from guys with no experience. Can’t tell you how many times people will say build it even though it costs twice as much. Have no clue what all of these guys do for s living to have so much money in the bank
Just buy a trx or wait for the Raptor
🤣 I wish. TRX markups are still insane and Raptor markups will be just as bad if not worse. I’ve been looking for dealers selling at sticker and so far no luck. Those that do come up at MSRP get snatched up quick.
That 2017 has Plati seats, might not be a true raptor
Seats always get replaced when you go full cage to make way for seats that can support a harness. Everywhere else it looked like a Raptor
Sell ur Raptor now since the market is high, drive the BMW and get the gen3 with 37's out the factory
I have an active lemon law case and can’t sell until it’s done.
Good video
Build all day long. Hunt for deals on parts, find some lightly used parts and save thousands that way.
There is literally no one selling a mid travel bolt kit.
So I have to asks since this happens all the time. Do you have $40-60k to build yours up?
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad yeah I do if that’s the route I wanted to go. Gonna buy a 250 and a 5th wheel instead. I know you are in a tough spot, but what other choice do you have? I mean any fully built used truck is going to be cost prohibitive and hard to finance. I’m just spitballing, it may take time but you’d get the truck you want. Go find a Gen 1, and start from there. Or wait for a unicorn.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad admin added you to the Houston Area Raptor FB group. Figured worth a shot.
Thanks man. I have the budget to buy something already built up and rehab it. But I don’t have what I needed to build it. I would need to double what I have now and then some to do it right.
A part of me wants to build so it can be done right with what I feel is the best kits. But the time it will take would suck. Easily 6mo + lead time for most key parts plus built time is my main hesitation. I would probably not be done for a year. That’s a long time to be off the trails. Been 2 months so far and I’m going nuts
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad oh I understand. Wasn’t trying to be snarky or anything but just trying to help out as I can. Sometimes getting into a truck and getting off-road while you are building is maybe better? Or take the wife’s Jeep off roading lol.
Keep searching, Raptor prices are high but you may get lucky 🍀. Good luck 👍
Thanks man.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Do a search on e-bay. In Utah they are bidding on a 2018, $11,900.00 with 26,500 miles. Check it out although the price is ridiculously low. Something is up with that...
I search every site you can and look daily. Out of state is tough for me. I need to see these trucks in person. The Raptor core truck has shown me a truck can have some nice pics, but in person be a total mess
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad California prices are sky high, you will be better buying out of state. That means travel. But you will save some $$$.
Easier said than done man. I’ve checked out a few trucks that many said were clean and perfect. And they all ended up being massive projects. From what I’ve seen, prices out of state are fairly comparable
This makes a Honda Talon look cheap
🤣🤣🤣 UTVs are their on ball of problems and crazy costs to upgrade
BUILD
Dude... I’ve got some money to invest in my truck,,, I’d like to pick your Brain for a little while
DM me on Instagram. Personal account is the best way to reach me
👍
70k is little steep. Especially considering the California tax raping.
Yeah, I miss living in Utah and being able to save a shit ton in taxes by trading in a car.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad don’t worry, Gavin Newson has got it all figured out... lol
🤣🤣🤣
Stay away from the 11th F150s like that 2004. Worst F150 ever.
Isn’t that what your rolling on?
No, I have a 10th gen. The 11th gen was a “fillerbuster” for the 12th gen which is what the 1st gen Raptor is. Also... the SuperCrew 11th gens have short front doors. On the 12th gens and up they made the front doors bigger.
Ah ok. Good to know.
I will sell you my gen 1, 2014 with 80k miles
DM details on Instagram.
Fair warning, not looking for a stock truck. We are looking for a Mid travel Gen1.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad well mine is stock suspension wise, factory fox top perch on new shocks...good luck to you on finding a mid travel ! 👍
Why do I get a sense that you don’t plan on putting down any money? Sounds like unless the bank can finance you 100%, you can’t afford it.
Did you even watch the video? I would guess not. We were ready to buy the Raptor core truck, but not at his asking price.
I did. But with the way you’re presenting everything, it seems like money is a little tight.
Are you one of those Raptor snobs that think you need to be wealthy to get a Raptor? That some people are too good for your Raptor community? I get a lot of snobs try and judge without not knowing anything about me.
I have a few rules when I go buy any car. And the number one rule is never finance more than 100%. Never. All the trucks I’ve been looking at are worth more than book value. 20-40k more.
I want to make sure I’m getting something good for all that cash. And I would be taking in a 3rd car loan because I can’t offload the my Gen2 till after my lemon law case is over. I have the credit and budget to do it all. But I won’t do it if it means funds are going to be tight.
@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad No I’m not a Raptor snob. I do have a Gen 2, which I understand that the price I paid can never be considered a smart use of money. And I don’t care because it’s a fun truck.
Just commenting on your presentation. At the end of the day, a Raptor is not just a truck, it’s a toy. And toys cost money-fun money-so there’s no way to rationalize dropping $30k cash toward a truck that costs $77k because that $30k is for the fun that comes from the hobby. To justify it like some sort of smart purchasing decision, you’ll always get someone questioning your judgment.
Ah ok, for us it’s not a Toy. For us the Raptor is part of the business. We document the upgrades and adventures for UA-cam and we do group runs for a few groups. We are trying to get something different. We’ve done a lot with the Gen2, and until it’s gone we will still take that truck out. But when looking to replace it, a built up Gen1 seems to be the better option that laying well into the 90s for the Gen3
Buy something built 🤣