SPECIAL HiFi Speakers with NEW iTRON Avantgarde Acoustic Trio G3
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- In this video I am in Germany visiting the famous manufacturer of very high end Horn HiFi Speakers and electronics Avantgarde Acoustic. I was here to learn more about horn speakers as they have always fascinated me and as Avantgarde were nearly ready to launch their new flagship speakers the Trio G3 I asked them to tell us more about them.
Avantgarde are also introducing a new patented amplifier technology into their new Active Trio G3 called iTRON. I have tried to explain why they are using it and what benefits it brings in the most simple way I could.
www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/en/
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
2:22 Whats NEW
9:47 iTRON
Thanks for watching - Terry Ellis Pursuit Perfect System
#HornSpeakers #AvantgardeAcoustic #HiFiAddiction
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In case you missed the first part of my tour here is a link to that video its well worth checking out ua-cam.com/video/QMb-CNd5n0E/v-deo.html
I have been looking at the Magnapan spakers recently. Do you think the iTron amplifiers would be suitable paired with Magnapans that are famously current hungry ?
@@CulturedThugPoster no you won't get iTRON on speakers like that it's low power high current single ended class a
How much is the price?
I got hooked on horn speakers a few years ago. After hearing Avantgardes at the 2019 Munich show I pulled the trigger. I am really enjoying a pair of their Duo Mezzos at home.
Same here, Duo Mezzo XD. Getting a Triode Lab 45 Evo SET amplifier delivered next week - can't wait.
Fantastic speakers you have.i know them very well.if you have the possibility hear avantgard with Kondo Ongaku,amazing in all aspects.
I am using An Airtight ATM300R SET amplifier to drive them. Beautiful sound!
@@brkly99 yes they are too,i have them at the store i work, and they work fine with the avantgards,but the ongaku its another level.
@@brkly99 loved what I heard of airtight Amps in Warsaw a few years ago
Aspirational speaker for those who love this type of aesthetic design and sound signature. Thanks Terry
I’ve been waiting for this review. Happily it only took a week or so since you put out the factory tour and teased the idea of a review. Thanks for not making us wait months. These speakers are amazing Mabey someday I’ll hear a pair untill then I’ll stick to the review
Brilliant video that really explains the technology in an easy to understand way. I have loved my Avantgarde Duo's for 15 years and my dream is to move to Trio's if I move to a house with a larger listening room. The Trio G3 is now a must see/listen and hopefully if it is demo'd at the Munich show I will definitely attend. I really like the ability to time-align the drivers and the electronics being built into the frames. Avantgarde has some great people who really look after their customers so I hope these do well.
Terry, thanks for increasing my audiophile awareness!!! 👍🏼🤯
You Havr an Excellent style of presentation , effortlesly explaining everything frankly and spontaneously
FANTASTIC overview. Thank you.
After 45 years all I can say is when horns are done right, nothing else competes. The only real issue, can you live with the uncoventual styling? I think it's rather avant-garde myself, can't wait to hear these beauties!!! Thank you Terry.
Yeah, a dedicated room makes it alot easier, but alas we cant all have one
Lovely speakers I've listened to many of their different models over the past decade or so all of them sound very good very life like they all have a very live sound totally different to a box speaker every audiophile must take a listen to a good set of horns and Avantgarde make the best simply stunning great video.
I can only agree. It is a breathtaking experience.
Beautiful speakers that I hope to audition one day. My first experience being wowed by horn speakers came at an audio show in orange county CA. Where I stumbled upon Zingali speakers, 20 EVO 1.2. Never thought twice about horn speakers until that moment.
Nice technical video, loved it
Loved horns since early 90s. Wish I could afford avant-garde
Thank you for this nice insight in this innovative company🙂
Very beautiful loudspeakers 😊
Thanks Terry - most interesting. Your videos can seriously affect ones wealth... Greetings to you and yours.
2/4/2024: WoW Again! Unfortunately, i don't expect to ever be in this class of audiophile $$$$$$$. I probably will never get to hear this newest system from Avantgarde Acoustic Trio G3. I love horn technology and would like to hear more types of horn speakers. Especially these. Yes, I am a bit envious of your experience with this company, people and speakers. Atleast, i can learn from reading and having a basic understanding of the electrical issues involved. My first experience was in the basement of a good friend, in 1974. He had a pair of Altec Voice of the Theater speakers. 15" folded horn for middle and low end and the Horn on top of the cabinet. Boston's first album was amazing through them. It just keeps getting better.
Thank you for sharing so much interesting information. I'll stick around this site for sure.
Thank You & Best Regards. Timothy
Awesome video man those are insane. End game horn system per say. I love klipsch and own a full system of them. I can only imagine how those compare to my rf7iii. Whoaaa
horns sounds very appealing now:)
i almost bought some mini horn speaker with the klipsch palladium series. wish you got some of those in for review. i never cared for the cheaper klipsch products.
Serious stuff!
dream speaker
This was really interesting. I've always lusted after Avantgarde since forever reading the various audio mags when I was younger. The iTRON tech seems really interesting. I'm hoping I can find a dealer in the area that has these setup for audition -- I need to hear them!
ua-cam.com/video/nChqjPV9NVo/v-deo.html
FASCINATING! Now, where's that lottery ticket!
It's complicated.
Beautiful I want a pair, and a room big enough to house them 😆
I heard some Duo’s with Tron amplification in the UK many moons ago. For me they’re on a different planet to boxes. The presence the sound has in the room! It’s like live vs’s recorded.
Excellent
As an old school audiophile, I realized I’m a musician ,I already know this!
Hoping to hear the iTron Duo GT in January (and the passive version of course)🎶💥🙏
Current based amplification (transconductance amplification) has been available for some time. In receent times, Bakoon Japan, Bakoon South Korea (now called Enleum), Crayon to a certain extent and others. Syneastec uses a current based first stage in their amplifiers. Many phono stages have become popular utilizing current based amplification. Sutherland has the Phono Loco series and CH Precision's top phono stage is I believe also current based. Many others can be found by hunting around a bit.
All used amplification parts (Transistor, Fet and Tube) basically work as transconductors. For fet and tube the realtion between input voltage and output current is fixed, and for transistors the ratio between input to output current. What ITron does, is not convert that current to a fixed voltage, which is the normal way of a power amplifier. In this case the current is what is sent out, and as the force of the speaker cone is only activated by current and not voltage, this is in theory the best drive signal. Since it is not standard and it has limitations, it is best to couple it to a known driver/speaker system. In that case compression, serial resistance and distortions get lower and bandwith gets larger. All in all quite a large step imho. This also paves the way to more futuristic techniques like dsp and room correction, which is arguably the next big, daring step, or just another option for sales:-)
That system is more than a Porsche 911 Turbo. Think about that for a second! But first, think about the quality of the recording you’re listening to - is it any good? If not, then no matter how much you spend it will never sound good. Hopefully, as you know, most albums sound different depending on the recording and the mastering. Then think about your room, it’s all about the acoustics - build your system around YOUR room. I’m 63 years old, I’ve been around this stuff for years - wrong speakers in the wrong room will sound sh*t no matter how expensive. There is no Unicorn, but there are plenty of snake oil salesman waiting for you. Good luck!
Great speakers will make even not so great recordings sound better.
There's a sonic gap between your Kef Ref speakers and properly engineered high efficiency speakers like the Avantgarde Trios. The difference is in elevating the performance to sound more like a set of live musicians and vocalists playing and singing in your room. Instead of it sounding like a good hi-fi system.
There's no doubt that Avantgarde make really good sounding speakers. Their biggest obvious weakness is the price. New and 2nd hand. I'd need to do a series of AB listening tests to determine if Avantgardes are the best of the best. I suspect that their bass might be their Achiles Heel? There are other high efficiency speakers that use much larger bass drivers. There's a lot to be said for a high quality, high efficiency 18"+ woofer in a well engineered cabinet.
I'm also not 100% convinced about the horn shapes used by Avantgarde. Dolly Parton and mouth shaped horns may give better in room dispersion...
Horns are awesome, I have EV horns from the seventies.. sensational
I have some acoustic controls. So good
Me too. EV are one of those classic brands that seems to have been outed in the last decade, resulting in them being more difficult to find at bargain prices. I paid less than £500 for my EV Sentry III's.
I have listened to the Avantgarde Uno with Octave tube amplifier. A reference for me that I have yet to hear elsewhere.
Hello to you. You once presented two amplifiers: Luxman l509x Gryphon diablo 120 I am before buying one of them, both deserve a medal. I listened to hell and was very impressed, unfortunately I didn't have luxman at home and I don't know how to play. What would be your choice would be an unequivocal decision, or a comparable one. I would be very grateful for your answer, thank you and best regards
Thank you... and absolutely yes they are, I'm not even close to getting towards an end game but for a while my thoughts were focused on the boenicke w 11 or 13 se , I still prefer the aesthetic of the boenicke but those avantgarde are beautiful as well and very excited to hear them through your channel !
Great video as always.
What brand they are using for those drivers?
Avantgarde Acoustic is a fine speaker brand and they are usually using BMS drivers for their speakers but I don't think these ones are BMS.
I am sorry I don't know I didnt ask them about that
@@PursuitPerfectSystem
np man.
You are the best High End Audio channel out there.
I'm enjoying all of your videos.
@@jperfection wow thanks very much really appreciate it
In the previous line they have been using custom made Beyma drivers, I guess they are using some sort of improved versions now.
Is it possible they stepped it up a notch and now manufacture their own drivers ? Taking quality control into their own hands ?
Would be cheaper to get the artist to perform live for you.
Saw this quote all the time. It may be true for hiring your local wedding band.
Are the dynamics too much even? I heard an older model few years back and it was causing fatigue to me. Something line the duo mezzo xd would be cool if you reviewed:-)
nobody likes being shouted at.. I agree
I hope you asked for the Inception french horn track to listen to.
I think everything said is this one video is that wide large speaker is still the best
Interesting interpretation :)
8:25 If you can eliminate a part in the crossover it's a good thing. Speaker designer/builders....try to use the least parts possible on the crossover for a more concise and defined sound. Just my opinion. 😅
Love it but can't afford 😔😪
Do you think they could be a replacement for your current loudspeakers?
If you mean the Trio they wouldn't fit in my room Marcus :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem moreso another model from their range... Something with the same design philosophy.. But a more easily accommodated size.... You seem to have enjoyed what they can provide... of course the smaller ones may not give you enough of the magic.
@@marcus1970 I would live to listen to some in my room for sure but I genuinely don't know if my room and setup is suitable as it's very near field for a big horn speaker, I would try and make it work because I think my rooms acoustics would suit the speaker just maybe not how I am setup at the mo. Either way yes love to try some
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Terry, have you ever thought about moving to a detached house where you could have a large dedicated audio room? It would probably involve moving away from the South East of England - or you paying like £700,000+ for the house (for one requiring renovation). Which might not be realistic options for you...
@@lint8391 HI Lindsey - I think about this every single day and if it were just me it might be possible but with young kids in schools its not straight forward and as you say property round here is more expensive than I currently can afford. I def need more space though sucks being space limited
How much do they cost ???
I hope Avantgarde did meanwhile improve the black coating of the trio midrange driver. In my case they started to disintegrate and Mr Armin Krauss was not willing to acknowledge the problem nor replace the membranes. Still have the Trios today but I,m hugely disappointed about their customer service.🤷♂️
what you discribed when talking about iTron is called damping factor in the real world ;-) A big damping factor of 1000 or more is beneficial to bass response where you need big stable power to drive it but it has a lot of disadvantages with certain types of speakers (here obviously not the case) and it has disadvantages in the mid/high frequency spectrum. The easiest way to experience that yourself is by listening to a big old Threshold or Krell. They have a damping factor of >1000 and they clearly have the power to drive any bass you can imagine, but mid/high frequency is not their domain, there is a lot better stuff out there.
The beauty of driving a speaker active is of course that you can design an amp for the frequency range where it is used, the disadvantage is if you don't like the amp you can't change it or at least not easily.
iTRon is about how fast the speaker driver reacts to the signal not how its controlled after the signal has stopped. Its not the same thing
@@PursuitPerfectSystem each amp has a certain amount of power, the impulse of the speaker depends on how much power you put in it is simply power equals mass times velocity there is no way around it, it is simple physics. What you can do is compare the mechanical movement of the coil (speaker) with the incoming signal, that is called negative feedback, where the delta between signal and reaction is feed back into the input signal (simply explained) and that is the oldest trick in the book.
@@snakeoilaudio wait until more info about it is out in the wild I am the wrong person to debate it with but I know its different it was explained to me by the designer. It's definitely different not a fancy name for something that is the same
@@PursuitPerfectSystem alright, I will google once it is released, but you understand that it is not possible to accelerate anything that has mass in a rectangular fashion because you need infinite power to do so. You can not accelerate a car in 0 sec from 0-60 no matter how much power you have. You can create a rectangle in an amp coz the electrons have basically no mass but the membrane and the coil of the speaker have mass, therefore you will always end up with a shark tooth shape.
Or perhaps Hegel amplifiers for excellent damping factor numbers.
YES BUT THE BIG HORN OBSTRUCT THE TWEETER WAY... I THINK FOCAL BEATS GRAND UTOPIA BEATS THEM
I always thought it was odd that the G2 were not properly time-aligned. They never admitted before… I would hate to have purchased the G2 - that’s a big flaw at this price point.
Why did you use square waves to demonstrate iTRON?
That is info produced by Avantgarde and I was trying to explain what it means in very simple non technical terms, as it was explained to me
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I wasn't expecting a response back so quickly. Thank you! I love your channel with great in-depth reviews and interviews.
I'm sure they're lovely for listening to jazz and opera music..I'd rather crank my rock and drink a few.To ea their own.
Hello from India.
Could you please guide me here . We have no option to listen and buy unfortunately so i am soley depending on expert advise from experts like you. Most answer i get all the below options are good but that does not help me choose.
I listen vynl and cds and streaming equally
Please advise.
I am confused between
Audio lab 6000 A + 6000N+ 6000CDT
1770 usd.
Or marantz pm 7000n and cd6007 cd player
1900 usd
Or emotiva xsp1 + BASX A2 + AUDIO LAB 6000 CDT( or anyother cd player)
2300 usd
Or marantz pm 8006 + ND 8006
2000 usd
Speaker evo 4.2 or montior audio 100( silver)
Im continually impressed at how much BS marketting departments can churn out.
I heard that loud and clear. The acoustics are amazing in here.
So is this the best speaker system you have ever heard ?
when ever i end up liking something, its got the words advent garde tagged to it.... wierd
And all at a price that only a tiny handful in the world can afford.
Doesn't matter how good they sound, they're fuggly as hell.....take a bet that anyone owning these is single 😀
This is REAL High-End. But the price Puh…. 😥
Very kool, Very nice but OVERKILL and way to expensive for what you get compared to other systems that cost a hundredth of the price! It's the name and prestige of saying you own one.. Ok it might sound a bit better but think about it you have two ears that can only hear so much and most can't tell much of a difference from one high end system to another.. It's the hype and presentation that sells most.. I really don't like how they use such a high impedance on their drivers! I prefer with newer amps that the Impedence is not higher than 8-Ohms.. I prefer 4 Ohms on the mids and high drivers and 2 Ohms on the Subwoofers.. I run class H amplifiers..heavy but powerful.. not the cleanest but powerful!
These speaker sound nothing like traditional speakers, they are completely different
Drop the price to something reasonable ($2-$3K) get rid of the all the horn resonances Im hearing and l"ll consider buying a pair.
where did you hear these speakers and if you saw them in the flesh you would make this comment
Great vid, thank you...but a few points...music signals are never square waves so I don't know what their graphic was all about as it compared two different wave forms without explaining their origin. Secondly, voltage biasing of caps has no scientific basis at all in terms of audible and measurable improvements to s/n. Its pure nonesense and has been debunked many times. Proper scientific trials show this to be the case. Why aventegarde persist with this provides a degree of dismay and headscratching to most reputable audio engineers.
Also, Al in oil caps are not ideal as any volatile layer like oil dissipates through tiny voids caused by corrosion through potted leg connections over time and this affects both esr and capacitance...ie they drift in value over time. Surely the best cap to use would be aliluminium and polypropylene wound layers for stability. Its what I use in all my designs for that reason.
Their impedance matching of voicecoils is a good thing but not for the reasons given. Resistors are the most benign and least damaging component of any passive crossover but dont behave in the same non linear way as do voicecoils so designing drivers to match impedances at all frequencies which remain balanced when in parallel circuit is done by voicecoil matching or via a zobel network to flatten impedances. The latter is not an efficient nor desireable means to achieve this and also causes phase shift so Aventgarde's way of doing this is the better way by far. It doesn't mean that output is linear and flat at all frequencies though (ie system accuracy won't necessarily be a given) but does mean that individual driver output will be matched.
The trouble with all decent horn systems such as these is cost. Thery are all prohibitively expensive which used to be partly justified in terms of manufacturing complexities of the horns but this is now made easy with 3d printing and precision forming or cnc work so these high costs are no longer as justifiable or understandable.
Having a sliding tweeter is a good idea but this can not be accurately set up by ear. They need to test the speakers for various listening distances and set degrees of toe in then provide the necessary adjustment value to be dialled up on the scale of the rail. This requires proper acoustic measurement. Ideally though a dealer is best providing this service as part of a home set up.
Most recorded music is listened and mixed using studio monitors, it seems logical to use something similar to listen back what they heard. I’ve nothing against horns…just saying.
That's only down to cost and size, but mostly cost. A recording studio in Germany 20+ years back used a pair of Trios suspended from the ceiling in their recording studios. Not sure if that still exists...
Специально сделанные ножки для конденсатора🤦🏻♂️😀
Is this a Fashion show?
I had the same clothes on for the whole video
My wife likes a big horn experience 😂🤣😂 sorry couldn't resist lol
Hopefully she won't ask for the Trio ;)
haha
Mine prefers the bipole experience...
15sec listening impressions……. 15min video
When your listening to new speakers with new electronics in a new room thats much larger yhan your used to with acoustics your not familiar with its hard to deep dive
The special part is peasants can't afford them nor fit them in their apartments. The stupid part is if you can afford these the peasants live in your house mansion and call you massa.
Avantgarde Acoustic
for people who have more money than brains.
Or maybe it takes brains to have the money to buy avantgarde acoustic speakers
No one can afford them 😡
You can DIY though. Maybe you can never tune it to Avantgarde Acoustic level but you can definitely have the sound signature.
btw, the end result won't be that far if you get the same components. Usually they are using BMS drivers but I don't think they used BMS on this one.
Apparently they sell multiple sets every month, some people can afford them, sadly I cant
@@PursuitPerfectSystem me neither.
I actually heard a pair of Unos here in Australia best part of 20 years ago and the impression lives with me to this day.
If, if, if, but no, can't afford them and I have found a small scale Australian maker (not horns) who built me some lovely speakers that will probably do me till I die. I should add I am coming up on 70, so that might well be true!
@@2ridiculous41 hello ozpomfromhell i am a melbourne lad of 62 and am looking looking looking for a set of speakers just wondering if you could share the name of the Australian maker that has impressed you so well........cheers Jim
@@jperfection I think there's a good chance you can get to Avantgarde levels via DIY. At Owston last week-end there were some fantastic sounding high efficiency DIY speakers. It would be interesting to AB them against the Avantgarde Trios...
Its ugly, that said
These look like Oswalds Mill Audio, but less attractive! I'm not hating on these products I'm just sharing an observation .
Horn speakers have horns so that part will always be similar but there is a huge difference in the designs. Avantgarde is a contemporary design Oswald mills is more mad scientist look and for those who prefer wood