Will Ebikes Ever Recharge While Riding? Explained
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
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0:00 Can electric bikes ever recharge themselves? Let's find out!
0:20 The Ebike Basics
0:53 Suggested solutions?
1:48 Geared Hub Motor Vs. Direct Drive Hub Motor
3:16 What if we take this a step further?
3:48 Generating electricity as you ride?
4:28 What would happen if we added that to this bike?
6:43 What other ways can we use to recharge while riding?
8:40 What about solar power connected to the bike while riding?
10:04 Is there anywhere on an ebike where energy is just being lost? - Спорт
Will infinite range bikes happen? (And yes, I clearly filmed this while on Mars. The sky is red.)
Maybe someday someone will invent something. I don't think anything is impossible. I know there is no perpetual motion machine. Maybe when they come out with way smaller solar panels. There was a guy that went 10000 miles on solar panels really slow. The seat on that bike is the same one I have I think it's a little too fat I should have got the smaller Cloud seat. Not good for pedaling
Cool video. Like many riders, the thought of power regeneration has crossed my mind. Thoughts of a wind turbine system have danced in my mind. Perhaps Luis Alizondo has some thoughts based on his UAP expertise?
No but as both battery and motor technology improve, the range will get so far that you can't ride that far in a day.
No not till we can ride ebike in space then maybe it's possible 😎
@@chrisbiernat2930 I thought of having 3 6 volt fans and wind power but I doubt that would work because of the drag on your bike maybe someday they will come out with solar generators that are very small and put out a lot of electricity
Regenerative braking works on cars because they weigh two tons and are very aerodynamic. You can recover most of the energy you put in that way, but on a bike you’re going to lose most of your energy to aerodynamic drag.
I think it would be great to maintain a constant speed down a steep hill without wasting that kinetic energy with friction brakes same way the regenerative braking on my car can. It can work on bikes with likely little addition weight or complexity.
Golden motor hub ebike motors can regen like a car when slowing down
@@loctite222ms regen braking can “work” on bike drive systems, just not very efficiently.
Also, regenerative braking absolutely has to be tuned to the ride and load, if not the regen braking circuit will start locking up the wheel and jolting the bike, and the rider will almost certainly lose control.
The regenerative braking risk-reward on an ebike is terrible,
I have tuned CNC machinery coordinated motion controller regen braking systems these HAVE to be tuned to the velocity and acceleration load-curves, the IGBT main-buss would weight at least 2x the drive components you are adding a lot of weight, AND you would have to tune for alot of wasted inertial motion just to make the regen braking safe for the rider and not lock up brakes.
@@johnfilmore7638 could you maybe have regenerative braking just not take enough energy away to completely slow down or stop, like purely to regain energy and help reduce speed on longer downhills or something? I feel like you could do that if you just ease off on how hard it slows you down and then use the friction brakes for actual control on everything else
Hills bro
I ride a Eahora X7, and it will charge the battery when going down hills. I took a 15 mile ride last week on a trail with slight up and down hills, and the battery was still 100% when I finished.
When the motor and generator are used at the correct times it totally works! I only use my motor on steep hills but I re-gen on any downhill and even some flats. It really does help extend your range.
it takes 4V before 100% changes.
And that's like 5 miles +.
May someone tell me the names of the ebikes that can recharge the battery as I'm riding ?
When l was a boy l had a bike (English racer) that had a small generator that could be engaged to contact the tire and run the headlight. Seems reasonable to me that any energy generated could be hooked up to the battery to extend range to some extent. It seems to me to be free energy since the tire is spinning anyway. Kind of like the turbines of a hydroelectric system that generates electricity from water flowing through a dam.??⚡️⚡️⚡️ Anyway keep the videos coming! Thanks from Staten Island
Dynamo
Yes exactly, and even though this has been addressed slightly in this video, I don't fully agree. Say the ebike is solely pedal assist, then surely mote energy could be generated to charge the battery?
Free energy? Have you ever pedaled a bicycle? It requires effort...work
@@matthewhardy8133 untapped energy, process that hasn't been adapted to harvest energy... are we ok now with terminology? His example of dams and turbines is perfectly acceptable, and comparing it to a tyre rotating is also acceptable. The energy is there, it just isn't being harvested.... or have you never ridden a bicycle down hill without pedalling?
@@gheretmaaar7652 there is no "free" energy to "tap" from the spinning wheels of any vehicle...except on deceleration or going downhill. The kinetic energy of the vehicle is sustained by the energy input of pedaling, and/or from the battery on an ebike.
Good video. I was thinking of a front dynamo to power lights, it's good to know I am better off just powering the lights from the battery.
Thank you for explaining that so thoroughly and saving me time, frustration, and money. I tried looking up the answers you explained before watching this and didn't find NEARLY the amount of answers (on a level that I could understand) in the amount of detail that this video did.
Re-gen brakes would be great in the mountains. Ebc offers a pretty good solar recharge option. It’s $600 and can recharge a decent sized battery in a few hours on a sunny day. I’m pondering the purchase for my model c.
I'd just be weary of that 150W output "under optimal conditions". That could mean on the Equator cloudless at noon. Pretry sure you almost never get the advertised output
I'd just add the extra battery and a switch, or upgrade both, two 1000w units? Be huge
@@andrefecteau I like the idea of having a spare battery for the rear because it’s removable and you’d only need to carry an extra on the rare occasion that a big trip is planned 95% of the time 600 watts is fine, and I already have more than double that.
@@trailguy yeah, good plan
I currently utilize a simple solar/generator combo. 350 Watts of used LG house panel mounted to my pickup trucks roof rack charges while I drive, doing errands, or just sitting in the driveway. From that I charge the eBike batteries (2 48V -about a kilowatt total)while the bike sits folded in its “garage” tote.
Then I ride on the pure solar powered bike after driving to a low auto scenic location.
Done ✅
Hi . Interesting video. Question. Assuming standard rear drive setup, would a front hub direct drive motor not provide some power to the battery if used as a brake in downhill mode?
Sir that was a good explanation but I think there’s a way to resolve the issue if you use a little planning of generator motors and step up conversion to add to batteries
Interesting...
The biggest problem with regen is that it also limits your ability to coast. If you turn it off so you can coast efficiently, then you've lost a lot of the benefits of coasting, which you use a lot more often than you need braking going down hills. I guess if it turned on only when you used the brake lever...
Agreed, but only if you are looking for efficiency. There are times when I turn my ebike to Regen mode which charges the battery when above 15mph just for the workout factor. It takes the flat land I am now living in and creates some resistive challenge while charging the battery. If I was going for riding efficiency only I wouldn't be riding a fat tire ebike it would have 120psi road tires without a suspension for least weight and resistance. Of course then off road use on trails would not be an option.
@@TechnoAgape then why bother with an ebike to begin with if you wanna workout? Just get a 26" BMX...... the geometry is WAAAAY better than MTB. I have both kinds.
@@chrisw5742 because I have other purposes for the ebike other then just exercise.
Very nice explanation.. the amps cannot be enough to regenerative sources...however why dose one battery bar adds up if I just complete a hill climb or reduce PAS pe shift from 3rd to 2nd gear on the go..? Dose the battery electrolyte charge up when load is mechanically overcomed?
I'm making a trailer to haul my solar panels to do some camping. You defentily have to have several panels in order to get the efficiency you need to charge your battery.
Given enough interest in regenerative breaking systems I think we will see something come out eventually.
Great video!
solar panel covered clothing?
back when I was a kid we had little generators that would contact the front tire sidewall and power our lights, could design brakes that worked with something similar with variable power generation depending on desired braking power.
Re "little generators" - the question to ask is how much energy they capture vs how much weight they add.
My take is that given the current state of the art of battery technology, and the fact that the heaviest component of an ebike system is the rider, the best way to add more energy to an ebike system is... to add a bigger battery and charge it at home. It's possible that there is a use case for the "little generators" like we had as kids -- maybe for longer, multiple-day excursions in hilly terrain - but you'd have to spec it out. I suspect the kind of system you're thinking of would not outperform the equivalent weight in "more batteries" unless there was absolutely no way to charge at home for a long time.
They have hub dynamos these days for powering lights. They generally only Rob a few watts of the riders peddle power to run led lights. Theoretically you could charge a battery off something similar but you'd probably spend 4 times as long struggling to get anywhere while charging the battery as actually running on battery power. Defeats the point of an ebike.
Youd be better off towing a trailer with solar panels on it charging up a second battery
@@merendell - I agree. I was thinking of long uphills and downhills with no way to carry extra batteries or recharge ... or use solar ... for a long period.
MAYBE it would make sense to add a light dynamo to recharge the battery on long downhill runs where you'd need to use the brake anyway. But it's such a bizarre use case. If you can't charge your batteries, then there's no sense in having them. Just use a regular bike in that case.
I remember that. It can be done but it doesn't profit the throw away culture.
What if we had a front Dynamo hub that has a switch you could turn it on going down hill?
What's a good (reasonably priced) Ebike that you'd recommend?
I'm looking for something that at the least can carry 300lbs, assuming that a trailer doesn't count towards that, if so, then 400lbs.
The trailer I currently have my eye on for both capacity and ease of access is the Burley Coho XC, but I need an electric bike to go with it.
More specifically a class 1or 2 ebike, but if that's too far down the specifications, don't worry about it, I'm sure I'll find something.
Yet another very informative video, this video answer a question that had been on my mind since I’ve been thinking of setting up parallel battery on my cheetah. That being if the hub motor on the cheetah had regenerative braking , I recall reading something about not setting up parallel batteries if the bike has regenerative braking. Now I need to make sure that the controller will handle the parallel set up, and from what I have read, when batteries are set up in a parallel configuration, the watts stays the same so controller should be fine? If anyone can help me out, I would sincerely appreciate it. Thank You for taking time to make these videos
I liked the picture of the bike towing 3 solar panels. Let's say a bike towed a trailer with just one solar panel around 2' x 5 ', maybe as the lid of the trailer. Now let's say you got 150 w/ hr out of that solar panel. Let's say you used a 1000 w-hr battery. In a day's biking( plus you could keep charging even after you were done biking as long as the sun was shining) couldn't you charge a spare battery and just switch batteries every day. You'd probably have to apply human power to the bike also but you'd still have electric assist and never need an outlet (as long as the weather stayed sunny). I realize using the sun is an external power source, but it still sounds like an attractive concept to me.
Best answer yes just charge a diferent battery... i was screaming during this whole video ....birdbrain people ....
I agree with you that it would be vastly inefficient to try and charge while riding,but what about instead of 1 big battery, 2 smaller batteries you can use one with approximately 10-15 mile range and while riding keep the other charged? Once one is dead,switch batteries now riding charges the dead battery(hopefully to full or very close) before the current battery has been drained. It's an idea,ya never know
The answer is no, you will lose power in the conversion and end up with less power.
If you're charging by an external source like solar, or gas engine you could charge as you go. But you could just as easily charge the single battery you're pulling power from. Putting a second motor to create power from the momentum of the bike will put a drag on the bike and cause the driving motor to work harder. Electrical motors are only about 80-90% efficient, the rest of the energy is wasted as heat, like a brake pad turns momentum into heat.
If you pull 30watts from your momentum to "charge" your battery you will cause your drive motor to use about 45watts more energy to move the bike just from losses in the generator, battery, and drive motor, for a net loss of 15watts... A perpetual motion machine is not possible without an external power source.
@@josiahlehman1506 @Josiah Lehman Wasn't going for a perpetual motion idea,just something to extent range without using massive batteries and adding extra weight. I was also thinking since the best efficiency on an pedal style ebike comes from the rider pedaling while assisted by the bike motor,I was more thinking that the rider can help charge the battery not so much the bike. Anything in motion has the potential to become a source for energy,why not let it help charge the battery(s). Whether is the wheels the pedals,the chain,the riders feet,anything,why think inside the box. Its ideas,maybe our comments will help someone perfect an ebike charging system
@@frankaltobello8120Why do you have the electric motor in the first place? The most efficient option is to just use the chain and gears to turn your energy directly into motion.
If you take the mechanical energy of peddling to turn it into electrical energy to charge a battery to then use it mechanically to move the bike you will lose 30%-40% of your power converting it, not to mention the loss to in battery cycles and weight gains from all that extra stuff.
If you want to use your the energy to peddle the bike then do that directly, also the lighter the frame the better, that means dropping the battery and motor completely because just the weight of the battery and motor will make it heavy enough that you will need more total energy(you +battery) to move the bike.
@@josiahlehman1506 Hhhmmm....I'm going to have to think about this for a bit. So your saying one or the other? Not a combination of both electric assist and human power? By adding a "chargjng" system it would be more work than what it's worth you say. Then why have an e-bike that has assist? Then a full electric would actually be better? And a regular pedal bike would be more efficient with just human power. If a pedal assist style ebike was to get a theoretical 50 miles a charge but I needed to go 58 miles the bike would be dead at 50 and the assist would be gone. I'd have to pedal. Or get a second battery. But I don't need another 50 miles, just another 8. So even if the poorly efficient charging system was installed, you don't think I could squeeze a measly 8 extra miles out of the ebike standard battery? You think I'd have no choice but to either pedal or get a second battery?
@@frankaltobello8120 You can bring a second charged battery and just stop and switch batteries after the first one runs out sure. But to try to charge by peddling on your trip you're losing energy in converting it.
You can absolutely save your battery power by working harder and peddling more, but trying to charge the battery with peddling will cost you almost twice the energy for the same distance.
A front wheel dynamo for lights, small potatoes, But a ring of magnets connected to front spokes , a few inconspicuous coils to generate a few amps for storage 🤔. Ok, think I’ll just buy another battery.lol. Btw, love my ebike!
Hi what about my front hub motor is 48v 1500w and my rear motor is only 24v 500w can I use the front motor to charge my spare battery while I on move ?
Good video, and I don't think regen power from the brakes only would offer much of an advantage over proportional regen offered by a Phaserunner. I would love to use regen braking to save brake wear, but I love torque too much to switch to most common DD motors.
I own a Sondors MXS. If you are familiar with the Delfast E-Dirtbike I was wondering if a rear fender like the one on the Delfast may be available for my MXS
There is a man who had some YT vids showing his modification of a hub motor to gen electricity. He attached his crank arms & peddles to it and fed that electricity back into his batteries, which then powered his rear wheel hub drive.
He operated with no chain, belt, or shaft, making a purely electric drivetrain. You can probably still find his vids on YT.
i do know that my friend had a flash light that worked by you turning a crank and charging up the batteries in order to use the light for a short period of time ... when the light starts to dim you just hand turn the crank for about 10 seconds and you are good to go again for a bit
My 1970 schwinn continental had an amazing generator that rubbed against the rear sidewall and lit up my front and rear lights…it was bright as heck!
Those old Union or Sanyo dynamos with a good krypton or halogen bulb lit up the whole road. I used them on many overnight Randonneur rides.
I built something like this on my mobility scooter so that it charges a bit during the ride, the way I made it I can now drive 50 km more than normal.
With magnets that generate a total of 12 volts, I send that to an inverter to 230 volts and I connected a trickle charger there and now I have enough power to be able to drive my mobility scooter for a little time longer.
I studied this for months and finally found the solution by simply testing the theory in practice.
2 cranks 1 clutch. 1 crank on the right to drive the back wheel. 1 crank on the left side to recharge through a dynamo. A clutch to select L, R, L+R. You can then set it to R and pedal to recharge your bike while going down hill ?
I can't remember the name of the first ebike I had, but it did used to charge the battery when NOT in auto mode, but in the assist mode it used to charge. That was about 20 year ago.
Thanks for the great explanation. Hope one day this will happen.
I have a yammee XL bike. With a hub motor on it that has brake regen and also regions as I go downhill it works okay since I am in the mountains of North Georgia and it actually does produce a small current and may give a little charge to the battery like you said not a whole lot but just a little bit if you do a lot of downhill after climbing you can tell that you get a small percentage boost on your battery unless they're software on their controller is just totally fooling everyone including myself. Have you ever seen the system on the Yammee bikes?
I put an alternator connected to my my tesla back wheel via rotating wire and reconnected to battery. I haven't charged my Tesla in over 9 months and 8,000 miles. No lie.
How hot is too hot for the brake rotor?
Bio-lite stoves can recharge a call phone or run a light as it burns twigs to cook your food can that system be used on an ebike brake rotor?
This is like a physics lesson for kindergarten. I can tell he's trying hard not to sound too patronising.
Nah, if I was explaining physics for kindergarten I would say: Physics is a branch of science that studies matter and its motion as well as how it interacts with energy and forces. The kinetic energy of an object is calculated from the velocity and the mass of the object.
@@Area13ebikes That's for kindergarten? I know adults that wouldn't get that. I used to tell an electric car joke basically like you discussed here. The battery powers the motor, drives the wheels, and there's a generator attached to the wheel and it keeps the battery charged. I stopped telling it as a joke because too many didn't get the joke part. Instead of laughter, too often the response would be something like "Why wouldn't that work?"
What would be cool for recharging bike motor while riding is by having battery charged through USB port on the bike. The same way you can charge your cell phone while riding.
@@asoka2000 You can already charge your phone as long as your ebike has a USB port. Many do.
@@Area13ebikes Yes I know, I said it would be cool if you could recharge your ebike battery in the same way.
Is it possible to have fenders made for bike and have solar panels built into the fenders and as a commuter to have it regenerate some power much less as it was parked but also on the decent and just coasting!?,.
I have been on the Tucson Loop trail 2 times now with my Ebike with no problems. Just be nice to people and they are nice back.
if a 1000 watt mid drive motor drives a 750 watt hub motor while driving throttle and pedaling.
Will the battery not be recharged from the 750 watt generator? Not complete, I get that, but will the distance increase?
or is the resistance of the hub motor greater that there is a big loss?
How does this work, in my head it should work, but in practice.....
I d seen regenerative braking in city buses, it saves brake wear and heat by storing the energy it takes to slow the bus down and is used to speed it back up after the stop, and they do work, they save brake wear and improve fuel mileage. So for a bike it would be much the same, if you were in a hilly area, it would save some brake wear and put a little energy back but not very much at all. Hardly worth the effort. Perhaps if you could somehow choose when to free wheel and when to regenerate would be a good thing because all the drag slowing you down when not on a hill that’s steep enough to make power would surly use more power than it makes which is basically what you were saying. So not disagreeing with you at all, but it’s not something that can’t be done ever, either. Great video, gets people thinking.
U can use another battery 🔋 with dinamo moter on the fron weel so wen it’s charger u can use it until u don’t with the 1st battery this is what I know it will work??
What if u had a switch to turn on and off the dynamo on front wheel and only charge when pedaling or coasting
NEVER back down. Good work.
I put a switch on my bike that switched the motor from drive to regen. It was only beneficial on long, very steep hill. On lower sloping hills there
When talking about whether it's possible to recharge while pedaling, I think you missed a more important (and simpler) explanation as to why not. IT DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING A BATTERY IN THE FIRST PLACE. The battery is to provide energy to the system and make pedaling easier. You don't need to "pedal a generator" to generate energy, you can just switch on the regenerative braking and pedal at the same time. BUT WHY WOULD YOU DRIVE WITH THE BRAKES ON? Heck, I don't like pedaling a regular bike with even slightly underinflated tires. I certainly wouldn't want to recharge a battery while pedaling. Just charge it at home.
Depends on your application. I dream about just going out into the woods and not having to worry about anything except food. For me ebikes would be awsome to climb hills with all my camping gear.
@@Davmm96 I"m not sure how your comment relates to mine.
My old ebike a few years ago did. It was a big heavy blue thing.
Now I have an ebike that has to have the battery switch on to charge, so surely I can add a battery to my pannier that adds electric charge?
I owned a Rattan eBike for a short time and they had iPass technology they said was regenerative while you were coasting and not using any brakes. It did seem to rejuvenate the battery after going down a big hill. Do you know what that was all about? I would get back after a good ride, and it would magically gain 5-10%
After you stop riding the battery voltage will raise slightly since its cooling down and not under any load. That’s a reason why your battery meter may read higher after a ride and your bike is idle
You could do a generator on the pedals, and or on the front hub, and then the power will go into a second battery that will charge while you are using the first battery. Once the second battery is charged, you could have a controller that can automatically switch between the two batteries once the one is full, and then it will begin to charge the other battery that is nearly depleted. Yes, seems complicated, but I'm sure that could be done considering there are already bikes with two batteries on the market.
Just remember, my name is JAKE WEST, and give me some credit if you ever put this idea into motion and eventually market it. I will one day attempt it, but idk how to design, let along build a controller that could do this. You could also use super capacitors as a third power source that will then charge the second battery pack. Just an idea
Question: So its never going to be a perpetual motion machine, but if we had a generator connected to the pedals and instead have a front hub motor rather than a rear hub, would that help with going faster or more efficient with hill climbs? My thought process on this is you would have a two wheel drive system as both rear (pedalling) and front (hub motor) would be spinning.
Now I agree with the physics. Instead of using a generator, use an alternator. Alternators basically bearing and don’t have a resistive magnetic force unless a voltage is supplied to the electro magnets. When you are coasting downhill you could actuate a momentary switch while coasting. Then release the switch for normal operations. The switch could also be applied while braking. Just food for thought. Love your channel thanks.
I think it's silly not to use gravitational energy to compensate for some of the lost power. What I mean is that by the way, we can easily use the energy of gravity when going down the slopes and we can extract the maximum capacity of the engine when working in reverse. You can even turn this system on and off manually, so that you only engage the generator on downhills, so that no battery power is used to turn the generator. It is completely possible. Especially in long distances where you may be downhill most of the way. It is even possible to use the wind power generated while riding a bicycle to generate electricity. and get the minimum power required to turn on the bicycle lamps from these methods. Anyone can easily install two or three high-performance propellers on the front of their bike. It is both beautiful and lovely and practical.
The best regenerative braking system would require super capacitors to absorb breaking Energy quickly and then slowly feed it back to the battery to recharge it or directly to the electric motor for a burst of speed. However this gets complex and weight would become an issue
I wonder if you took a hub motor, and reversed the polarities so rather than using the power, you treat it like a generator instead as you're going down the road to feed electricity back into the battery to prolong the distance traveled. Like use a mid drive motor with a pedal assistance, and a reversed hub motor in the front wheel generating electricity while you're in motion. and the rear wheel would have some gear system, like those internal gear hubs (like that 11 speed Shimano Alfine hub) so you can go faster with less effort. I wonder if that setup would work though.
No, you will put too much drag on the bike and create more losses, you need to listen to what he's saying. It's a net loss you might as well just have the brake slightly on the entire ride, you'd get the same result.
@@josiahlehman1506 It was an idea that had popped in my head at the moment I was watching this video. You make it look like I wasn't even paying attention to the god damn video. I wasn't trying to calculate a thesis on it. A simple explanation or "it wouldn't have worked that way and here's why.." would had been more than enough of an answer, rather than typing some smartassed comment like "you need to listen to what he's saying". If I wasn't listening to the entire video, I wouldn't have thought about what I typed, ever thought about that?
Have you considered use a multi battery system? One actively powering the motor and one on standby charging? It would still be a net loss if all your using is a front wheel dynamo but I also have a jackery 240 and a genarac GP25001 daisy chained together with a panel on a wire frame awning I made of garden fence. Sometimes the standby battery charges off the solar some times the generator the dynamo (yes I know) is more of a helper and not the primary power supply. I also have a small trailer with most of the gear I thought about running two more dynamos off of the trailer wheels but I like being able to take them off when I put it in the blow up raft and it’s hard to water proof them because it uses too much tape sorry if I’m rambling a little
So using a direct drive motor on the front axel as a generator won’t work 🧐 We’ll Orville Dam I thought I’d get a free lunch out of that idea! 🤪
What about a solar energy generation using the SPINNING WHEELS and capture into a storage battery?
Mine charges slightly on coasting descents If it's not too cold. Below 40 F it's neutral
The alternator would extend the battery life if you used the already spinning front wheel?
I have an idea to make this possible. This will be a bit long winded, so bear with me. I'll explain it as detailed as possible to allow someone with the skills to try this to be able to build it. I'd love to try it, but, don't know how to weld. Anyway what generates electricity in an electric generator is the rotor and stator. The rotor has strong magnets with alternating N/S poles, and spins, while the stator is still, and has circular or triangular coils of interconnected copper wiring, which is run from that to your battery or motor. Another bit of knowledge we need is what's called a googolplex, which is when a larger gear connects to smaller gear, sometimes several smaller gears, though in this case several would be counter productive, and this causes the ratio to increase. So here the idea. Get a bicycle, and on the front wheel, weld a large gear, (like 1st gear on a mountain bike sized) run a chain from that to a smaller gear (like 7th gear mountain bike sized) welded further up the fork, (welded in a way that it can spin) This way, when you're coasting, or under power of the motor, the rotor will still spin. Because of an increased gear ratio, (no too much or you'd overwhelm the ability of the motor and yourself to actually peddle to speed) the rotor will spin fast, and the faster you go, the faster it spins. (Which would already be spinning much faster than the wheel itself due to the increased gear ratio.) The stator, placed in front of this rotor, collects the energy, sends it to a a control box that limits max output (so you don't just fry your motor) and from there to a control switch to engage/disengage the motor, (something like the twisting handle on a motorcycle) and from there to the motor. In theory, once you were pedaling fast enough to generate enough electricity, (the control box should have a readout that would let you know) you could engage the motor, and as long as you are moving, it would generate more than enough energy to run the motor and then some, depending on the size of the rotor and stator. Obviously it can't be tiny, but keep in mind, a gas generator powerful enough to run a camper can be carried relatively easily, so it doesn't have to be massive either. Anyway, the motor would be obviously be able to propel you faster than you could peddle (otherwise why bother with electric bikes other than being to lazy to peddle) which in turn would spin the rotor faster than the speed you had to get to to be able to engage the motor, the result of which is a motor that would run endlessly (until it wears out at least) as long as you don't stop moving. A battery wouldn't even be needed, but, to enhance this, run the excess energy from the control box to a diode, and to a battery, and from the battery to the motor. The diode works like a one way switch, so electricty from the battery cant flow back to the control box. Youd probably want to include a method to stop the flow of electricity when the battery is full to prevent overcharging. While the bike should function without a battery at all, the introduction of the battery would allow you the ability to start moving without pedaling, and in turn, once up to speed, the generator would recharge the little juice that battery used and return to running solely off the generator. Doing this would make a self charging bicycle. (Although at this point, with no more need to pedal its more of a self charging moped.) Here is a video of a multi gear bicycle made for speed.
ua-cam.com/video/dNMOj-3Fwls/v-deo.html
My idea is instead of the extra gears going to the rear wheel for speed, it'd just be attached to the front wheel to spin the rotor. And here is a video of a rotor and stator.
ua-cam.com/video/NKDYeyu0R30/v-deo.html
If anyone ever builds this, please give me a bit of the royalties when you change the world of self propelled bicycles lol.
Edit: for anyone that believs you'd never be able to peddle fast enough to start the motor in the first place, you'd be very wrong. A 1000 watt gas generator spins at around 3600 rpm. A bicycle with 26 in wheels spins at 129rpm at 10mph, or 194rpm at 15mph, both are easily achievable speeds to peddle. Obviously that's a "tiny" bit shy of 3600, lol, BUT, remember the wheel is on a gear ratio different than the wheel. Assume you have a 1:25 gear ratio, wich would be kinda hard to spin, but probably manageable. That changes things. Now, at 10mph, your rotor is spinning at 3225rpm, way more then enough to run a 500w bike motor, and at 15mph it's spinning at 4850rpm, which is enough to run a 1000w bike motor. So it is possible, easily so, assuming you build the gearbox strong enough to withstand the speed. (Don't cheap out on material) but wait, it gets better. Lets go back to my original idea, using the larger and smaller sprocket, not a 1:25 gear ratio which, while likely manageable to pedal, would probably break sooner or later unter the strain. Notice I gave statistics for a 26inch wheel. But the gear we welded to the rim isn't 26 inches is it? My 1st gear on my mountain bike is approx 4 inches, and my 7th gear is approx 2 inches. Not exactly, but close enough for easy math, so let's go with that. No need to throw in 16ths. Anyway, with this new information, things change dramatically. Here's the math on that. The 4 inch sprocket has 32teeth, and the 2 inch has 11 teeth. So for every rotation of the 4in sprocket, the 2in is rotating about 3 times. So now at 10mph, that 4in sprocket is spinning at 840rpm, which spins the 2in at about 2520rpm, more than enough get a 500w motor running. And at 15mph that 2in is now spinning at 3783rpm, which is more than the 3600 rpm of a 1000w gas generator. End point here is, you'd be able to get the required speeds, while at the same time using a simple gear conversion that your bike already has, increasing longevity. You could also buy a 54 tooth sprocket (like for gas motorized bikes) and use that as your large sprocket, which changes things quite a bit as well. Now, that 2in sprocket is rotation almost 5 times per single rotation of the 54t sprocket, which brings your new rpm to about 2800 rpm at 10mph, and 4700 rpm at 15mph, again, both easily achievable speeds for the average person.
Again, if any builds this and it works, let me know. I'm want my cut lol.
A lot of words and complicated parts will not allow you to violate the laws of physics.
Thank you. Well done. Outstanding
What if you hook a pulley or sprocket to drive an alternator hooked to you're charging wires for battery from a direct drive motor when you drive it spins the alternator goes the same rpms as the direct drive kit
I might make a case for peddle charging. Pedal when stationary, while parked, using a kickstand that holds the rear wheel off the ground and you have to wait for whatever reason anyway.
I was hoping there'd be a 'YES' answer amongst the sea of responses. But there aren't any😌
When I said to my friend I was thinking of getting and e-bike, he responded with “so you can charge stuff while riding, right?”
I said, no, that doesn’t make sense, that’s not what an e-bike is, it’s used to make riding easier. Charging a battery is such a niche use. it would be so inefficient converting it, it wouldn’t make much of a difference. More importantly that would be expensive, and why would you want that.
True, I have tried it, the only way to recharge is going down a hill with your Direct drive motor setup with your Motor brakes Activated.. I have tried this on flat Road, and It's a form of Torture from 45 Min of Peddling you only Gain 1.9Km but use 2Km what you need is your paddles just producing power, so your Resistance is minimized so no chain, and you need a Big PMA with Reduction gears at that point it becomes an E motorcycle with peddles. 48V running a 36V system, this is how you do it Over coming Entropy by producing more power than you need.
Rocket Folding Bike Mid Hub if I remember, 750 Watt Regenerative, Full Suspension using a seat, front shocks 60 lbs Hydrolic Disc Brake., etc. I'd have bought one $1000. If you booked early, but $2k if later. Even at 1K the value added tax and shipping from England. Range was supposedly 100 miles
This is possible if you modify the alternator
I am on the thoughts that it can be recharged very easily. With the use of a solenoid like what is used for lights, but this one is used to charge battery so that you get a lot more range. Please reply on thoughts
We are in the infant stage of e vehicles. I'm sure down the line they will be more efficient to the point of being perpetual. Thanks for the info.
Power & energy is likely always going to be monopolized and controlled. Even if there was some free energy technology , the boys in black would show up and you’d end up wearing concrete boots at the bottom of a lake
What if you pedal in place without drive wheel touching the ground that should theoretically be like coasting and recharge your bike!?
Say you were coasting downhill on a long stretch or maybe a series of long stretches. While coasting, could you backpedal (reverse pedal) to recharge the battery somehow? Instead of just coasting along you could "possibly" be "making energy" during those idle downhill stretches. Just a thought.
Just crank up the regen and pedal forward to avoid going "too slow" down the hill. But again ... why? Just plug in at home.
From my calculations looking at the set up you can charge and go at the same time or one at a time
I think people wonder about regenerative braking on bicycles because they see regen braking on electric cars, and possibly they know about electric locomotives and also dynamic braking on diesel-electric locomotives. However, air resistance is so high on a cycle, cyclists rely on air resistance and axle resistance to do most of their stopping. When is the last time you suddenly hit the brakes on your cycle from high speed? It was probably an emergency. Even at 9 MPH, half the drag on a cyclist is air resistance. At any event, this is why he suggested a aerodynamically-shaped recumbent cycle as a platform for a solar ebike.
there is bike near me that has a dynamo on the front hub that only cut in when no throtle or pedle power is used
you mention that in a car theres extra power that goes back into the battery and your ebike somehow doesnt...but arent your wheels spinning thats extra energy being released.. wouldnt you just need to find a way to harness said extra energy back into the battery just like through the regen breaking? just thinking out loud, and never mind you sorta answered the question with alot of info hopefully one day we as a ebike community will figure something out
The problem with foldable solar is that its dead weight not earning its keep unless you are stopped and have it unfolded.
I go bikepack camping and found panels on a trailer to be the preferred method.
It is always supplying power to the system rather you are moving or not.
Before I crawl into my sleeping bag I make sure the panels are pointed toward the sunrise.
By the time I'm ready to hit the road, the battery is near if not fully charged.
My thoughts exactly. What size panel do you use? I have a Burley Travoy trailer that should work well to hold the panel(s). Depending on your direction and the time of day! And your latitude.
@@barrybogart5436, I use (2) 24v 60w rigid panels. The flexible panels are not yet reliable enough to invest in! The extra 100w on average helps to offset the power needed for towing my camping gear while in motion and charges the battery when I'm stopped.
What about two battery alternate one will be charge by dynamo generated in rare or front wheel,when the charge battery is full it will automatic transfer to the lowbat battery and he will be recharge again,I think it need electronic system like MOSFET and relay
what say you about those small windmills for boats?????
How about a computer controlled sail on a mast or two?
Jaques Cousteau's turbo sail
If they did they would be renamed perpetual motion machines.
It works suprisingly well on a $300 electric scooter. If you are really good, you don't have much actual need for a friction brake on a well built scooter. I have a fairly long downhill slope right outside my door. I don't bother charging my scooter all the way, because simply engaging the regen brake for a couple kilometers tops it off.
There are actually several scooters that have a right thumb throttle for forward motion, and a left thumb throttle that engages an electronic regenerative brake. They tend to be the cheapy $250 or less models in fact.
Great video.
Thanks!
@@Area13ebikes I'm currently putting together a two battery, two hub motor ebike. Do you know if anyone sells a cruise control for ebikes.
Interesting subject, think you covered very well. Its the same with electric cars, there is currently no know way to recapture as much energy as is being used to propel the vehicle. Maybe someday we will have a small nuke under the hood that could help generate the power needed but given the current feelings about that form of generating power I seriously doubt that will ever happen.
But recovering some of the kinetic energy to recharge the battery during braking is better than just turning it all into heat.
what if we capture the energy from the wind while we are moving?
If I may correct you, there are people that are using the geared hub motors to capture energy. the geared hub motor are 3 phase AC hub motors, you would need a device known as a 3 phase recitfier to match the voltage needed . then you would need a a wayo to convert that power safely to a charging ciricuit for the bike, this "Sytem with the converted AC in to DC then could be connected to a "Charge Controller", to be honest this would work best on down hill rides. and coasting you wouldn't get much of a charge on flat ground. So unless your traveling down a long steep road, you would not have much of a charge.
Now, if you want to cahrge your battery using the motor, turn it into a wind generator, get a proper charge controller and let the wind or solar power charge your bike when it is at rest.
This brings up another subject, it is possible, to charge your battery and ride at the same time. However your BMS may not like that Idea. This would could work by using what is called Pass Through Chargin almost all e-bikes have it, connect the charger, and you can opperate the e-bike using the charger...not literally ride it, but you can use the charger to test the motor and other things for trouble shooting.
How Do I know these things? I have worked with electronics ever sence I have been the age of 6 years old.
and I have workd with various motors . the "Off gridders" are very adataptable people, and some have used these gear hub motors to produce power, the best motors are the motors that do not have a clutch in the planetary gearing ssytem.
For example my santamonica Super Cruiser with the 750 watt motor at 48 volts could be adapted to a wind turbine And With th my mPPT charge controller that I have for my solar power, I could then use 750 watt wind trubine to charge my battery system. in which it would be connected to a 400 watt pure sine inverter at 48 volts, and I can power my bread machine . no joke. And... you have enough batteries in your stock pile to run a 48 volt inverter for 4 to 7 days...Yes.... if you have all those 48 volt battereis you could litterayl connect them and use them for emergencey power.... but I must caution you...take well care.... one error and you would not want to release the fire... but I think about 20 of your 48 volt battereis connected to a 48 volt inverter would keep your fridge happy... an MPPT charge contoller rated for the 48 volts, and the appropriate solar nad or wind turbine configuration, would indeed be enough to power your firdge, toaster and if you have chosen a 3 kw pure sine inverter... will allow you to cook a pizza in one of those mini ovens... I think about 10 of you48 volt batteries marreid to an inverter in the form of a parralell circuit would do you well in a poewr outage... it would make for a happy fridge , Now if you ever get people ordering batteries only.... you now know why..espcially if they do not own an e-bike. just food for thought...bike batteries are perfect for solar power, as they have a built in BMS. and an easy way to connect the batteries in parallel. if the person knows how to wire that way. the batteries also have a built in charging port...isn't that so kind of the manufacture :) hmm.... be a mess of wires that is for sure. and that would be a lot of amps flowing lets see what is 14.5 amps 10 ah yes 145...OUCH..... that will toast you if you don't handle that right, now what is 145 x 48 volts. that is rought 6,000 watts..ok I rounded... I could if my inverter accepted that incoming wattage, run my dryer and cook a pizza.and charge my e-bike and run all my electronics. using a very expesnive pure sine inverter.
How about a 2 piece shaft drive with a small alternator connected inline????
EDIT; YT snuk an old video into my suggestion list ... I commented again without realizing I had commented before. I had much the same thoughts and some newer info so I left this Newer comment here as well. Enjoy;
To answer a lot of the questions you have posed I suggest you talk to your fellow E-Bike craftsmen at Grin Technologies. They incorporate regeneration in their bikes and get some really good numbers.
PEDAL GENERATORS;
Some years ago a man here on YT demonstrated a hub motor re-crafted into a generator which he (chainlessly) used to charge the battery of his rear hub motor. It may have been 'less efficient', but it resulted in a significantly longer ride and would recharge the battery even when sitting still or upside down and hand cranked. I haven't seen his videos from back then in a while but they may still be around. It was a pretty interesting project.
Add 25 pound freewheel that spins when the rear wheel spins and continues to spin with additional magnetic coil like spinners cars have spawning electricity
Is the bike on this video very similar to the one sold by Ride Scoozy, called Veego?
Not infinite range, but a bike that uses regenerative braking would be good, you could even have a bike that allows you to just maintain the same effort whether going up or downhill by varying the amount of assist or regen it gives you, literally flattening the ground- yeah it'd still run out of power but it could be interesting- maybe you contribute what you can and use a throttle to set speed rather than power and it can decide how much regen or assist is needed to maintain that speed within the limitations of the rider and the bike.
Thanks for video. Bionx regenerative motors forgo brake maintenance by reversing the motor. It's been considered invaluable in hilly San Francisco and Seattle for over a decade, maybe two. It's not new, why hasn't anyone else commented on the Bionx motor, since your video has been out a year? People who carry cargo or kids swear it's the only way to commute on hills. I don't own one so I'd love to hear someone's feedback, thanks.
What if you put an alternator on the front wheel and charge battery A and then as you ride with battery B and then when battery B is off you swap with battery A then battery B gets charged and you do that after every 10 to 20 km.
What’s Abojt using a kinda small kinda easy turning turbine
isn't Vello Bike + there already (with infinite range)?
Dirt ebikes have regen for most of them but the yield you get out it isn’t much. Don’t know if it’s worth the cost for a bike . I would target small mini portable chargers that you can carry in your backpack. Seen a few in the market
Aside from the physics problems of efficiencies etc...s the additional hardware and cost of running a parallel wiring system and modified battery to which you deliver regenerative power to the battery while also extracting power from the battery.
regen is good for saving the brake pads and slowing the bike on a hill.
there are geared hubs that do regen. i think ebikes.ca sells them
I thought about putting a thermo generator and a small camping stove on my bike and with the 12v output i would power a inverter to 230v and charge my batterie. And if the gas bottle is empty i just replace it within 1mn.. But the output of the thermo generator is to little for the inverter...
Your better off using a solor panels to charge them on the go then change it over to next battery I use mine with a 48v x1000 20amp hr works great for long distance tourning
Thanks sir, beautiful product for hole world peaple's
They have 50 watt flexible solar panels that you could easily put on a bike, might even be able to do 100w, but need a solar charge controller and in the grand scheme of things the ebike is 500w - 1000w+. So you would be dicking around with solar panels on your bike just to get slightly further. Easier to pack your charger and find an outlet you can plug into for a few minutes some where.