I appreciate this video as a Muslim seeing signs of spiritual abuse in my local mosque. It is truly sad what greed will make people do, and the lengths people will go for the spiritual leader’s praise. May God protect us.
I experienced this and got set free after reading 'The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse '-David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. This was the 2nd book to change my life. Praise Jesus!
It's been going on since Jesus's time. Mark 12:38-40 As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”
I’ve experienced this…when I naively spoke the truth, the pastor started a smear campaign against me and my husband. People who we thought were “closer than family “ turned against us. It got quite nasty… all the while preaching about love every week. We finally just left, then realized the pastor had been doing this for years to people. We have friends who stayed and tried to fight him, he got meaner and meaner… all the while preaching God’s love every week. 10 years out from this and we’re still recovering. It’s hard to trust anyone…every time I hear a sermon about the love of God, I feel fear…my experience was the ones who constantly preached love, were the nastiest. I know not everyone who preaches a sermon about God’s love is abusive, it’s just my reaction to what we experienced.
Key word "naive". Same here! I made the same mistakes many years ago. I learned the hard way nobody can hold them accountable, except for God. I believe it was a lesson God wanted me to learn. Just give them to God and remain quiet after you have exposed them. Don't keep defending yourself. Let them do whatever they feel so inclined to do. Stalk you, Gossip, Getting even, Vindictiveness, etc. etc. Vengeance is of the Lords. God is just. You will know them by their fruits (actions). Love is an action (and doesn't gossip). People say they are so kind & "loving", but talk is cheap. Don't behave like them. Don't fight fire (evil) with fire (evil). Only God can fight those two faced battles for you. Release them to God. Move on with your life in peace the best you can and keep ignoring all of the outside noise (smear campaigns). In the end, God's justice will prevail (John 16:33).
I was part of a church that had LOADS of drama that I didn’t hear about until the pastor left the state. They all split up, went to other churches and the church has been struggling to find a stable congregation and people to come and support. I don’t go to church anymore because I learned that most pastors are business men like 9 times out of 10. Looking at it from a self employed point of view they need to go to make money and they have to be convincing enough to get more support, one bad apple in the congregation and the whole place will fall apart. It’s all politics today anyways, anyone who denies this either doesn’t realize it or is blind.
By the grace of God, I’ve forgiven them, but will never trust them again. I stay far away from the situation. We attend church in another area. The sad part is I always have one foot facing the back door, ready to leave if I detect abuse again. Just can’t totally relax at church.
These are original and beautiful and contemporary videos. Thanks. Our Sufi Movement is choked with Overt Narcissists due to a lot of the feudal culture of the Eastern men who are part of it. Our Quaker Movement is choked with European toxic Covert Malignant Narcissists. It is so sad that these Evil people/Wolves are overwhelming both of these Mystical Churches. I have stopped attending both since the lockdown and have returned and my eyes are opened from the Narcissism education I have received. Chuck De Groat's new book 'When Narcissism Comes To Church' looks at religious leaders and systemic Narcisism and how to overcome it. British Quaker Susan Thompson wrote a book 'Living With Conflict' that identifies not the Narcissim but the symptoms of the Covert Narcissims and Passive Aggressive Behaviour that is literally a threat to the ongoing existance of George Fox' Quaker Movement in the UK. What do we do? Do we go to Faith Spaces with these Narcissists? Or do we avoid these places full of Wolves in Sheep's Clothing [like Dr. George Simon's book on Narcissism]? I don't know the answer? Narcissist Chronicles [who is also starting to become a bit of a pop star/wolf] said, when I used to follow his videos, "This is the Devil's Playground. It is not our place to stay at home like hermits. We need to use our boundaries and get out among the narcissists"... I don't know. I am staying away for now. Great videos. Thanks ; ) K
@@flatlandah52 A sad reality that some pastors etc don't live what they preach. I'm far more selective these days & don't assume they're all genuine, or non-abusive. Can be good to attend church in another area, i.e. further away, where they don't know you & you can make a new start. I'm planning the same, but will look for several, all apart from each other. No more allegiance to one only, as if something goes badly wrong it can be devastating. I find listening to some podcasts helpful too & safe. Hope things are working out for you.
I experienced this with a covert narcissist pastor. I challenged his behavior and he and his leadership commenced to smear my name, pathologically lie and turned a blind eye to his narcissistic abuse. I have been in the church for 55 years and have never experienced anything like it. I left church attendance for two years and am just now returning to a new church. Throughout all of it, the Lord never failed on His promise that he would be held responsible and exposed via Ezekiel 34 and other scripture. He has since retired and the truth has now come out. God will not allow His sheep will be abused forever. He is just.
I came across Ezekiel 34 a while ago, & needed it for same reasons. How comforting it was to find out how God feels about irresponsible shepherds. It really gave me hope. I'm glad the truth finally came out re the church you were in. Sometimes it can take years. People just don't want to face reality & that alone can isolate you. But this isn't a joke - and all those 'pastors' will have to answer to God one day. All the best for you in your new church. Bless you. ❤️
23:13 Reminds me of the 'heavy shepherding' common in the UK during the '80's & '90's. Same old same old: a 'shepherd' who told you how to live i.e. who to marry, which job to take, which house/car to buy etc. Some pastors 'lording' it over congregants etc. Same manipulative nonsense you can only see that when the scales fall from your eyes. Have no time for them now. V careful what I tell people about myself, as everything gets back to the pastor (who would have made a good Stasi Secret Police boss in former Eastern Germany). It's awful that church members monitor members, spy, then report things back to the pastor - because he's asked them to. So underhanded. So I'm not in any of those churches now, & am intending to visit several, miles away & from each other. And as for their 'prophecies', well, what about Jeremiah 23? How God feels about false prophets? Honestly, these people will try ANYTHING to get your loyalty & and your money! But God will hold them accountable Ezekiel 34 (irresponsible shepherds). Then they'll find out it's not a joke! Not a game!
Thank you for this. I’m truly grateful for these kinds of videos as they helped me & others I know escape from a cult. You described them perfectly. Sadly, with this video & many others out there, people will still deny the fact that spiritual abuse exists & is present in many places. I cannot phathom leaving the presence of God but they will truly have you believe that leaving their church is leaving His presence & is major disobedience. It took some time after leaving to get out of this mindset & I am free today.
Seems that even some genuine churches too try this one - that if you leave their church you're leaving God. This had me bound in fear for years, until the light finally went on. I'm currently intending to visit more than church, but each geographically distanced from the other. I listen to podcasts, which is a good way of getting to know what & how they preach, from a place of safety. And I'm v careful what I share. Only tell people now what I don't mind everyone knowing. Someone once told me she kept her cards close to her chest, so to speak, & kept her own counsel. V wise.
I was in an IFB church where I believe they loved God,but it was filled with such unbelief,suppression,oppression & depression. It was also filled with legalism & rigidness. I literally have C-PTSD & am in therapy. I also subscribe to a healing & mentoring program. Several people that left this church have turned away from God &/or toward hyper-liberal churches,unbiblical beliefs & new age. I tried talking to the pastor & some others but it only fell on deaf ears. I don’t think abuse is always intentional & I continue to pray for them as well as myself & anyone I may have hurt when I followed in their footsteps. God have mercy🙏🏼
@@thesimplegospel3529 my mentoring program & the church I’ve been attending is helping me to heal greatly. I hear you, but don’t give up finding your space. ✝️🙏🏼💜
My granddaughter just left a church like you described,she had left another one and came to a more abusive church.The Pastor Prophet at her church told her if she left his church her life was going to be destroyed,and she would have much trouble.
Hi Wanda, I really hope your granddaughter is ok. Many can relate to what she was told (threatened). This is classic behaviour of very abusive, high demand groups, and not one bit of it is true. Fancy saying that to her! It's a big fat lie! He should be ashamed of himself! And one day he will be, if he doesn't repent. I really hope she is doing better, & is learning to discern the bad pastors etc. I can only suggest you both read the Psalms & the Gospels, & find others who can pray for you both. Take good care, both, & stay well away from the likes of him. ❤️❤️
These ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ that try to manipulate you and shame you into accepting their wives as co-pastors and other women as preachers & leaders in the churches. I rebel hard against that so strongly that I actually walk out when a woman starts to preach.
I'm thinking about leaving my current church because we have women preachers. I don't agree with women taking authority in the church. I also don't like how the women ministers use new age affirmations over people, when they are meant to be relying on the Bible and Jesus Christ. I won't give any identifying details, but I know for certain that if Jesus thought I was really good or really great, he would have no reason for me to trust him dying on across and rising after three days from the debt. I'm not giving any other details. All I can say is, women are not allowed to preach in church according to the new Testament.
I have been told by so many Pentecostal elders, that I am not saved and have demons, because I don’t speak in tongues. Book of Hebrews makes it clear God gives gifts of Holy Spirit as He determines. I keep trying to find a church, as I want to serve As Jesus calls us too. However, Jesus called this esoteric witch at the age of 55. I am now 61, still seeking a brick and mortar temple. What I have observed in the church’s are false judgement, evil doctrines such as tongues be required for salvation, prosperity gospel, demon deliverance necessary by laying on of hands(one example of a demon ridden saint in scripture?),celestial angels mating with humans. I see nothing but errors in every church I have attended, based on my understanding of Gods Word. They preach of Agape Love, but there is no evidence of it I can see.
Wow! Strong and courageous words-but the truth. A minister has a lot of power and can rubber stamp their wishes if they so command. If the PCC disagree they can be put down. It takes a strong person to disagree and stand up for what is right. They are often shunned then. After being divorced and having to move house my church friends are very encouraging for me to join the local church-I stand back and consider it feeling many a wound from the past. We all know even churches contain good and bad which is such a shame. Some people use it as a vehicle for their personal needs but never absorb the true message of love etc. ☹️
This hit a nerve. We were in this type of church for five years and it caused havoc in our lives. Thank you for this confirmation. We left after a devastating prophecy that took me years to shake off. Every time something bad happened, the usual vicissitudes of life, I thought the prophecy was coming true. New Wine magazine was a blessing to me years ago. I did not know they had gone into error.
This kind of thing can be devastating. I came across Ezekiel 34 (re irresponsible 'shepherds') and Jeremiah 23 (re false prophets) a while ago, which comforted me. It's clear from these two chapters that these people will one day be dealt with. It's a very serious thing to abuse any kind of authority. I can relate to your experience and your fears, but I do hope you start to feel more secure in other church/es. It may take time, and to realize that not all are abusive, or give such 'prophecies'. I've had all sorts 'prophesied' over me over the years, and some if it was nonsense. I'm grateful to God for helping me to reject this stuff, and help me to learn to be more discerning. I really hope you find a good and safe spiritual shepherd who leads by love and example, as a servant. I believe there are such people. Take care and God bless. ❤️❤️
Is it not better to gently and lovingly correct our brethren under Matthew 18 or follow 1 Corinthians 5 and rebuke church elders? As Christians, are we not supposed to judge the insiders and hold elders to account by the qualifications laid out in 1 Timothy and Titus? I am having this dilemma at the moment in a family-centred Pentecostal church, where the elders are tolerating their family members promoting the devil and witchcraft on Facebook, while isolating and ‘hating out’ everyone who shows the slightest sign of disagreement. It’s only a congregation of 21 with half being the same family, but I cannot decide if it is my duty to those who just want to follow and worship our Lord to call out the goat from the sheep. You will find that any church with false doctrines will lack church discipline by biblical standards and that there is nepotism or favouritism, with weak elders and a controlling core of the pastor and a few ‘yes men’. We are representatives of the kingdom of God on earth. Don’t let this be the image non-believers associate with Jesus Christ! It’s better to be divided in truth than to be united in error and heading to hell.
Ezekiel chapter 34 comes to mind. I left a church I was in for many years before the nails and teeth came out of the ‘pastor.’ I left because I was having marital issues, and I knew that in my weak state of mind, and spirit, I was going to be counseled to leave my husband (adultery clause), which I felt I had to resist. Too many marriages in that church were succumbing to poor counsel, and my flight instinct kicked in.
Usually churches are too liberal as in they allow divorce for 3-5 reasons. I think this is done to appease the many to support donations. There is the few churches that teach no divorce for any reason and that is false doctrine as well. Adultery severs the oneness and is the only reason for divorce. (Mat 5:32 and 19:9).
This may not be a popular view, but this area is a good reason to have a broader structure with bishops to whom people can turn when there are problems, and congregations in the same denomination that are easy to transfer to when there are problems. Property is not in the pastor's name, and heresy is something that can be tracked and brought to justice.
There is a way that spiritually abusive churches can live in "plausible deniability." They are friendly when you walk in but they have a clique that you are never accepted into unless you think exactly as they think and they do not think scripturally. By this I mean they act almost offended when you bring scripture to bear on a discussion. They tend to be more politically and earthly-minded based on their familiar traditions. "Pastor" is a calling not a title or a position. There ought to be more than one pastor in a church and they ought not to be paid.
How can I touch the so called "lord's anointed " when they run away from me like fire is burning them? I tried all kinds of bible verses on them, nothing seems to work.
If you talk and refer to people that way, I don't blame them for running away. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance on how to minister to others. It is God's job to save people and your job to act daily on what you perceive is the Lord's will in your life.
@@springflowerblosomnorris9721 Again, it's the Holy Spirit's job to minister and for you to do his will. It has been my experience that there is very little correlation between biblical truth and biblical scholar head knowledge. The Holy Spirit will reveal but he won't go against the will of man; that's the way he designed creation and why the bible is so thick.
@@shadowmist1246 So what is the point for people to go to bible college and get a pice of paper without the holy Spirit? Shouldn't the first priority be for the college to witness first and then teach the scriptures? When you build a house, do you start with the chimney and the roof, ... and finish with the foundation?
@@springflowerblosomnorris9721 Exactly --- what would be the point. It is not the college's job to witness first and then teach the scriptures. The college's job is to be a college: receive applications, enroll students, teach students, and test/certify students. The Holy Spirit's job is the help Christians grow in the likeness of Christ which will lead many to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit to witness to others. Some may feel lead by the Holy Spirit to attend a bible college. It is a worthy endeavor for some but with the mindset that regardless --- it is still the Holy Spirit that teaches. "Christians" going to college can lead to complex labels and a developed hyper-ability to play gymnastics with the scriptures ie Calvinism, Lutheranism, Catholicism, Pentecostalism, Mormonism, Arminianism, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Greatest abuse, false doctrine and exalted self-appointed prophets. Urging the receiving personal words, preaching on tithing, not allowing dissent or "don't touch God's anointed BS, so much.
True description of many modern churches especially when women are in pastor or elder positions. The whole church then rest in the hands of those the Bible says should not be in these positions.
While greed can reveal a bad pastor the true spiritual abuse in the church is the failure of the churches to teach How to walk in the Way in Jesus. Which is how to repent to the acknowledging the truth, to discerning the love Way to submit to abide in a d be transformed to become one, in increasing measure until your measure is full and sufficient for your belief in Jesus. There is no church teaching this. And for you to not see this and rather focus on the greed aspect shows your lack of spiritual knowledge.
You tried to make the distinction between abusive and manipulation. I suppose the difference is one of degree instead of type. Kind of like a cult vs a church with cult like tendencies which would be most denominations. Pentecostal denominations is an example of excessive manipulation so at what point does one call this abusive.
It is okay for churches to give a Pastor money, but it is not okay for that same Pastor to accuse people of robbing God to make the offering bigger. Christ did not make any such law for the church to bow down to.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
Great program ❤❤❤ not just abused also harass
I appreciate this video as a Muslim seeing signs of spiritual abuse in my local mosque. It is truly sad what greed will make people do, and the lengths people will go for the spiritual leader’s praise. May God protect us.
I experienced this and got set free after reading 'The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse '-David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. This was the 2nd book to change my life. Praise Jesus!
It's been going on since Jesus's time.
Mark 12:38-40
As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”
That has really struck a chord with me. I needed that verse.
I’ve experienced this…when I naively spoke the truth, the pastor started a smear campaign against me and my husband. People who we thought were “closer than family “ turned against us. It got quite nasty… all the while preaching about love every week. We finally just left, then realized the pastor had been doing this for years to people. We have friends who stayed and tried to fight him, he got meaner and meaner… all the while preaching God’s love every week. 10 years out from this and we’re still recovering. It’s hard to trust anyone…every time I hear a sermon about the love of God, I feel fear…my experience was the ones who constantly preached love, were the nastiest. I know not everyone who preaches a sermon about God’s love is abusive, it’s just my reaction to what we experienced.
Key word "naive". Same here! I made the same mistakes many years ago.
I learned the hard way nobody can hold them accountable, except for God. I believe it was a lesson God wanted me to learn. Just give them to God and remain quiet after you have exposed them. Don't keep defending yourself. Let them do whatever they feel so inclined to do. Stalk you, Gossip, Getting even, Vindictiveness, etc. etc. Vengeance is of the Lords. God is just.
You will know them by their fruits (actions). Love is an action (and doesn't gossip). People say they are so kind & "loving", but talk is cheap. Don't behave like them. Don't fight fire (evil) with fire (evil). Only God can fight those two faced battles for you. Release them to God. Move on with your life in peace the best you can and keep ignoring all of the outside noise (smear campaigns). In the end, God's justice will prevail (John 16:33).
I was part of a church that had LOADS of drama that I didn’t hear about until the pastor left the state. They all split up, went to other churches and the church has been struggling to find a stable congregation and people to come and support. I don’t go to church anymore because I learned that most pastors are business men like 9 times out of 10. Looking at it from a self employed point of view they need to go to make money and they have to be convincing enough to get more support, one bad apple in the congregation and the whole place will fall apart. It’s all politics today anyways, anyone who denies this either doesn’t realize it or is blind.
By the grace of God, I’ve forgiven them, but will never trust them again. I stay far away from the situation. We attend church in another area. The sad part is I always have one foot facing the back door, ready to leave if I detect abuse again. Just can’t totally relax at church.
These are original and beautiful and contemporary videos. Thanks. Our Sufi Movement is choked with Overt Narcissists due to a lot of the feudal culture of the Eastern men who are part of it. Our Quaker Movement is choked with European toxic Covert Malignant Narcissists. It is so sad that these Evil people/Wolves are overwhelming both of these Mystical Churches. I have stopped attending both since the lockdown and have returned and my eyes are opened from the Narcissism education I have received. Chuck De Groat's new book 'When Narcissism Comes To Church' looks at religious leaders and systemic Narcisism and how to overcome it. British Quaker Susan Thompson wrote a book 'Living With Conflict' that identifies not the Narcissim but the symptoms of the Covert Narcissims and Passive Aggressive Behaviour that is literally a threat to the ongoing existance of George Fox' Quaker Movement in the UK. What do we do? Do we go to Faith Spaces with these Narcissists? Or do we avoid these places full of Wolves in Sheep's Clothing [like Dr. George Simon's book on Narcissism]? I don't know the answer? Narcissist Chronicles [who is also starting to become a bit of a pop star/wolf] said, when I used to follow his videos, "This is the Devil's Playground. It is not our place to stay at home like hermits. We need to use our boundaries and get out among the narcissists"... I don't know. I am staying away for now. Great videos. Thanks ; ) K
@@flatlandah52 A sad reality that some pastors etc don't live what they preach. I'm far more selective these days & don't assume they're all genuine, or non-abusive.
Can be good to attend church in another area, i.e. further away, where they don't know you & you can make a new start. I'm planning the same, but will look for several, all apart from each other. No more allegiance to one only, as if something goes badly wrong it can be devastating. I find listening to some podcasts helpful too & safe. Hope things are working out for you.
I experienced this with a covert narcissist pastor. I challenged his behavior and he and his leadership commenced to smear my name, pathologically lie and turned a blind eye to his narcissistic abuse. I have been in the church for 55 years and have never experienced anything like it. I left church attendance for two years and am just now returning to a new church. Throughout all of it, the Lord never failed on His promise that he would be held responsible and exposed via Ezekiel 34 and other scripture. He has since retired and the truth has now come out. God will not allow His sheep will be abused forever. He is just.
I came across Ezekiel 34 a while ago, & needed it for same reasons. How comforting it was to find out how God feels about irresponsible shepherds. It really gave me hope. I'm glad the truth finally came out re the church you were in. Sometimes it can take years. People just don't want to face reality & that alone can isolate you. But this isn't a joke - and all those 'pastors' will have to answer to God one day. All the best for you in your new church. Bless you. ❤️
Excellent and Needed. Thank you!
23:13 Reminds me of the 'heavy shepherding' common in the UK during the '80's & '90's. Same old same old: a 'shepherd' who told you how to live i.e. who to marry, which job to take, which house/car to buy etc. Some pastors 'lording' it over congregants etc. Same manipulative nonsense you can only see that when the scales fall from your eyes. Have no time for them now. V careful what I tell people about myself, as everything gets back to the pastor (who would have made a good Stasi Secret Police boss in former Eastern Germany). It's awful that church members monitor members, spy, then report things back to the pastor - because he's asked them to. So underhanded. So I'm not in any of those churches now, & am intending to visit several, miles away & from each other. And as for their 'prophecies', well, what about Jeremiah 23? How God feels about false prophets? Honestly, these people will try ANYTHING to get your loyalty & and your money! But God will hold them accountable Ezekiel 34 (irresponsible shepherds). Then they'll find out it's not a joke! Not a game!
Thank you Susan,she is able now to recognize this type of Church.
I was a victim a couple of decades ago a spiritually abusive church but God "s grace I escaped n safe now
Have you joined another church?
Thank you for this. I’m truly grateful for these kinds of videos as they helped me & others I know escape from a cult. You described them perfectly. Sadly, with this video & many others out there, people will still deny the fact that spiritual abuse exists & is present in many places. I cannot phathom leaving the presence of God but they will truly have you believe that leaving their church is leaving His presence & is major disobedience. It took some time after leaving to get out of this mindset & I am free today.
Seems that even some genuine churches too try this one - that if you leave their church you're leaving God. This had me bound in fear for years, until the light finally went on. I'm currently intending to visit more than church, but each geographically distanced from the other. I listen to podcasts, which is a good way of getting to know what & how they preach, from a place of safety. And I'm v careful what I share. Only tell people now what I don't mind everyone knowing. Someone once told me she kept her cards close to her chest, so to speak, & kept her own counsel. V wise.
I was in an IFB church where I believe they loved God,but it was filled with such unbelief,suppression,oppression & depression. It was also filled with legalism & rigidness. I literally have C-PTSD & am in therapy. I also subscribe to a healing & mentoring program. Several people that left this church have turned away from God &/or toward hyper-liberal churches,unbiblical beliefs & new age.
I tried talking to the pastor & some others but it only fell on deaf ears. I don’t think abuse is always intentional & I continue to pray for them as well as myself & anyone I may have hurt when I followed in their footsteps. God have mercy🙏🏼
@@thesimplegospel3529 my mentoring program & the church I’ve been attending is helping me to heal greatly. I hear you, but don’t give up finding your space. ✝️🙏🏼💜
Excellent words of wisdom. Thank you.
My granddaughter just left a church like you described,she had left another one and came to a more abusive church.The Pastor Prophet at her church told her if she left his church her life was going to be destroyed,and she would have much trouble.
Hi Wanda, I really hope your granddaughter is ok. Many can relate to what she was told (threatened). This is classic behaviour of very abusive, high demand groups, and not one bit of it is true. Fancy saying that to her! It's a big fat lie! He should be ashamed of himself! And one day he will be, if he doesn't repent. I really hope she is doing better, & is learning to discern the bad pastors etc. I can only suggest you both read the Psalms & the Gospels, & find others who can pray for you both. Take good care, both, & stay well away from the likes of him. ❤️❤️
Good one, posted below before I hard your talk. High agreement
These ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ that try to manipulate you and shame you into accepting their wives as co-pastors and other women as preachers & leaders in the churches. I rebel hard against that so strongly that I actually walk out when a woman starts to preach.
I'm thinking about leaving my current church because we have women preachers. I don't agree with women taking authority in the church. I also don't like how the women ministers use new age affirmations over people, when they are meant to be relying on the Bible and Jesus Christ. I won't give any identifying details, but I know for certain that if Jesus thought I was really good or really great, he would have no reason for me to trust him dying on across and rising after three days from the debt. I'm not giving any other details. All I can say is, women are not allowed to preach in church according to the new Testament.
I have been told by so many Pentecostal elders, that I am not saved and have demons, because I don’t speak in tongues. Book of Hebrews makes it clear God gives gifts of Holy Spirit as He determines. I keep trying to find a church, as I want to serve As Jesus calls us too. However, Jesus called this esoteric witch at the age of 55. I am now 61, still seeking a brick and mortar temple. What I have observed in the church’s are false judgement, evil doctrines such as tongues be required for salvation, prosperity gospel, demon deliverance necessary by laying on of hands(one example of a demon ridden saint in scripture?),celestial angels mating with humans. I see nothing but errors in every church I have attended, based on my understanding of Gods Word. They preach of Agape Love, but there is no evidence of it I can see.
Holy Spirit is your teacher
I understand. But demonization is real. Paul's thorn in his flesh was a demon. It was a "messenger of Satan" meaning an angel.
Wow! Strong and courageous words-but the truth. A minister has a lot of power and can rubber stamp their wishes if they so command. If the PCC disagree they can be put down. It takes a strong person to disagree and stand up for what is right. They are often shunned then. After being divorced and having to move house my church friends are very encouraging for me to join the local church-I stand back and consider it feeling many a wound from the past. We all know even churches contain good and bad which is such a shame. Some people use it as a vehicle for their personal needs but never absorb the true message of love etc. ☹️
Bless yous all ,in Jesus holy name 😇
Also depart from any other form of abuse ... mental, physical, emotional or spiritual.
The church of Christ. Only true church. Very difficult to leave.😢
This hit a nerve. We were in this type of church for five years and it caused havoc in our lives. Thank you for this confirmation. We left after a devastating prophecy that took me years to shake off. Every time something bad happened, the usual vicissitudes of life, I thought the prophecy was coming true.
New Wine magazine was a blessing to me years ago. I did not know they had gone into error.
This kind of thing can be devastating. I came across Ezekiel 34 (re irresponsible 'shepherds') and Jeremiah 23 (re false prophets) a while ago, which comforted me. It's clear from these two chapters that these people will one day be dealt with. It's a very serious thing to abuse any kind of authority. I can relate to your experience and your fears, but I do hope you start to feel more secure in other church/es. It may take time, and to realize that not all are abusive, or give such 'prophecies'. I've had all sorts 'prophesied' over me over the years, and some if it was nonsense. I'm grateful to God for helping me to reject this stuff, and help me to learn to be more discerning. I really hope you find a good and safe spiritual shepherd who leads by love and example, as a servant. I believe there are such people. Take care and God bless. ❤️❤️
We were in a shepherd bondage church and God rescued us!
Hi, Sue. What exactly is a shepherd bondage church?
Love your talks so very helpful 🤩
Is it not better to gently and lovingly correct our brethren under Matthew 18 or follow 1 Corinthians 5 and rebuke church elders? As Christians, are we not supposed to judge the insiders and hold elders to account by the qualifications laid out in 1 Timothy and Titus? I am having this dilemma at the moment in a family-centred Pentecostal church, where the elders are tolerating their family members promoting the devil and witchcraft on Facebook, while isolating and ‘hating out’ everyone who shows the slightest sign of disagreement. It’s only a congregation of 21 with half being the same family, but I cannot decide if it is my duty to those who just want to follow and worship our Lord to call out the goat from the sheep.
You will find that any church with false doctrines will lack church discipline by biblical standards and that there is nepotism or favouritism, with weak elders and a controlling core of the pastor and a few ‘yes men’. We are representatives of the kingdom of God on earth. Don’t let this be the image non-believers associate with Jesus Christ! It’s better to be divided in truth than to be united in error and heading to hell.
Thank you. 🥺😢😇🙏🥰💯
Ezekiel chapter 34 comes to mind. I left a church I was in for many years before the nails and teeth came out of the ‘pastor.’ I left because I was having marital issues, and I knew that in my weak state of mind, and spirit, I was going to be counseled to leave my husband (adultery clause), which I felt I had to resist. Too many marriages in that church were succumbing to poor counsel, and my flight instinct kicked in.
Usually churches are too liberal as in they allow divorce for 3-5 reasons. I think this is done to appease the many to support donations. There is the few churches that teach no divorce for any reason and that is false doctrine as well. Adultery severs the oneness and is the only reason for divorce. (Mat 5:32 and 19:9).
"Preacher" doesn't necessarily equal "pastor". We were in a congregation once where the minister was also one of the elders/pastors.
This may not be a popular view, but this area is a good reason to have a broader structure with bishops to whom people can turn when there are problems, and congregations in the same denomination that are easy to transfer to when there are problems. Property is not in the pastor's name, and heresy is something that can be tracked and brought to justice.
Last thing the one true church headed by Christ needs is more worldly structured hierarchies. Turn to the Holy Spirit; not bishops.
I love this video. I am curious. Are you aware of Greg Locke and his sermons? I am curious what you think of him.
There is a way that spiritually abusive churches can live in "plausible deniability." They are friendly when you walk in but they have a clique that you are never accepted into unless you think exactly as they think and they do not think scripturally. By this I mean they act almost offended when you bring scripture to bear on a discussion. They tend to be more politically and earthly-minded based on their familiar traditions. "Pastor" is a calling not a title or a position. There ought to be more than one pastor in a church and they ought not to be paid.
yes, the problem is that they all have some truth and some error, and that alone is already a reason to leave.
@@rahelhorvat1471 Yes, half-truths are worse than full on lies they make the whole things sound like truth.
How can I touch the so called "lord's anointed " when they run away from me like fire is burning them?
I tried all kinds of bible verses on them, nothing seems to work.
If you talk and refer to people that way, I don't blame them for running away. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance on how to minister to others. It is God's job to save people and your job to act daily on what you perceive is the Lord's will in your life.
@@shadowmist1246
How do you minister to someone who spend years in seminary?
Don't they learn the bible in bible collage?
@@springflowerblosomnorris9721 Again, it's the Holy Spirit's job to minister and for you to do his will. It has been my experience that there is very little correlation between biblical truth and biblical scholar head knowledge. The Holy Spirit will reveal but he won't go against the will of man; that's the way he designed creation and why the bible is so thick.
@@shadowmist1246
So what is the point for people to go to bible college and get a pice of paper without the holy Spirit?
Shouldn't the first priority be for the college to witness first and then teach the scriptures?
When you build a house, do you start with the chimney and the roof, ... and finish with the foundation?
@@springflowerblosomnorris9721 Exactly --- what would be the point. It is not the college's job to witness first and then teach the scriptures. The college's job is to be a college: receive applications, enroll students, teach students, and test/certify students. The Holy Spirit's job is the help Christians grow in the likeness of Christ which will lead many to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit to witness to others. Some may feel lead by the Holy Spirit to attend a bible college. It is a worthy endeavor for some but with the mindset that regardless --- it is still the Holy Spirit that teaches. "Christians" going to college can lead to complex labels and a developed hyper-ability to play gymnastics with the scriptures ie Calvinism, Lutheranism, Catholicism, Pentecostalism, Mormonism, Arminianism, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Greatest abuse, false doctrine and exalted self-appointed prophets. Urging the receiving personal words, preaching on tithing, not allowing dissent or "don't touch God's anointed BS, so much.
True description of many modern churches especially when women are in pastor or elder positions. The whole church then rest in the hands of those the Bible says should not be in these positions.
While greed can reveal a bad pastor the true spiritual abuse in the church is the failure of the churches to teach How to walk in the Way in Jesus. Which is how to repent to the acknowledging the truth, to discerning the love Way to submit to abide in a d be transformed to become one, in increasing measure until your measure is full and sufficient for your belief in Jesus. There is no church teaching this. And for you to not see this and rather focus on the greed aspect shows your lack of spiritual knowledge.
You tried to make the distinction between abusive and manipulation. I suppose the difference is one of degree instead of type. Kind of like a cult vs a church with cult like tendencies which would be most denominations. Pentecostal denominations is an example of excessive manipulation so at what point does one call this abusive.
It's also called a cult.
It is okay for churches to give a Pastor money, but it is not okay for that same Pastor to accuse people of robbing God to make the offering bigger. Christ did not make any such law for the church to bow down to.
Abusing sick people. Tell them don't come to my church . This is my grandfathers private property. privet property.
How do you escape? Lol You just don't go back.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.