It's said the Vulture droid starfighters are very unpredictable when engaged in combat. Clone pilots have to use some unorthodox tactics just to take one down. That's the biggest reason why Clone troopers fear that droid so much.
The CIS is the only Star Wars faction that has had extensive use of droid ships from a logistical point of view that makes a lot of sense. Going to the capital ships, the munificient-class frigates and the recusant-class destroyers are quite interesting because they are cheap capital ships that can be mass-produced, as well as automated.
The Confederacy has perhaps the biggest advantage when it comes to any commander great desire, and that is to give him a steady supply of manpower, and with the largest droid army in Galactic history they are able to order their droids to suicidal attacks without affecting the morale of other droids.
Gunray- “my lord, how will we wage war against an entire galactic government?” Sidious- “Hear me out, we make.. a lot of droids. Like a lot of droids. Like a pants shitting amount of them.” Gunray- “Word.”
The Yuuzhan Vong would arguably very well set up. Or considering the diversity of ships, the Imperial Navy with an enlightened commander like Thrawn that you pointed out. It's never the Navy, it's the leadership. This is true for just about every faction.
Never liked the whole Yuuzhan Vong idea. Feels not very Star-Wars-y and also kinda is a redemption for Palpatine, who is supposed to be the biggest villain of the galaxy.
@@LegioXXI at a certain point you run out of bad guys that doesn't sound like a broken record. I know that the Yuuzhav Vong garner love or hatred in their introduction. As a arc that broadens the possibilities of the size of the galaxy/universe though I think it was needed. There are other species and threats that exist that I thought were poorly done, the Tof and Nagai for instance or the creature that escapes me at the moment that uses the anti-force and is from another dimension. The Yuuzhan Vong are just that "hey the galaxy is big and things can be shaped other than the Jedi or Sith." Back to the navy question though, they are only ever as good as the author intends them to be. The Ackbar Slash for example in SW is probably a terrible tactic. It assumes that line of ISDs for example won't shift in any plane and are able to concentrate 100% of their firepower (energy) and shields against a single target at a time as the line proceeds, and that target has to use shields in all directions and disperse its fire against an enemy in a 360 degree arc (for simplicities sake). It sounds amazing, the Ackbar Slash! Then you go through the 3 dimensional line if battle thought process and it is a suicidal manuver... Most authors write first then think about tactics or ships... maybe. When people who think about ships and tactics first look closer...things don't pan out so well.
I've always wondered why didn't they use droid pilots during the Civil War. Droid pilots could fly at impossible speeds that would've crushed any organics.
The CIS definitely had the most underrated and underutilized navy in Star Wars history that was proactively nerfed and weakened by Sidious and Dooku's efforts to keep the Clone Wars going. It easily had a infrastructure and operation that would have rivaled and surpassed even the Star Forge's production rate all together. RIP in CIS navy. You would have beaten back a invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong and beaten the Republic if you were able to free yourself from Palpatine and Dooku's intent influence. Would of been like EVE Online shipyards on steroids.
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Admiral Kendel Ozzel. That guy isn't just an incompetent Admiral, he is also a coward. Most of his tactics involve just going in guns blazing. In fact, he is the reason the tactics during the Battle of Hoth were awful.
Cool idea, but Thrawn would constantly criticize Grievous' genocides and Grievous probably would've killed him at one point. Thrawn was no monster, after all. Grievous however...
2:00 A shame general grievous in the clone wars TV show was pretty much just a comic relief. I miss his first appearance in the 2003 clone wars animation.
Gotta love how their naval tactics are so great while their land tactics are basically just throw as many battle droids as possible at the enemy “Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.” - Euripides
Yeah but this "wise quote" was from before the industrial revolution. In "modern" warfare logistics, resources, supplies and manpower (or droidpower) are everything. They days of glorious frontline heroes like Alexander or Caesar are over.
Being a terrifying cyborg Jedi slayer who routinely lost in the clone wars animated series, it's easy to forget that Grievous was just an exceedingly brilliant general and tactician.
That's because Filoni completely emasculated Grievous in his Clone Wars. Instead of being a genius Grievous was defeated by Gungans. Genndy's Grievous will always be the real one.
You do realize Gungans are a WARRIOR race and not the example set by Jar Jar? There was a reason why the Naboo had a formidable military (not comparable to the droids) during the first battle of Naboo. Besides, Genndy’s depiction of the Clone Wars is borderline fanfiction with how over the top and overpowered everyone is.
Honestly, at least in legends, when hyperspace travel consistently took longer, I have to give the Republic a solid number 2 spot because their craft were so specced for rapid response- class .6 and .7 hyperdrives on your main carriers and battlecruisers? Acclamators able to outrun bombers? RHE really outdid themselves in creating a force that could be flexible. Fast hyperdrives seem less relevant now in Disney canon where there aren't any hyperspace trips that take longer than a few minutes, even for comparatively sluggish class 4 hyperdrives
yeah, a lot of people underestimate the strategic importance of different hyperdrive speeds. And considering that the design of CIS ships made them heavily-reliant on powerful shields for defense and more skeletal, utilitarian frames, the Republic should have tripled down on having a mobile, rapid-response and skirmishing naval doctrine where Acclamators would come in from hyperspace and fire an overwhelming amount of ion weaponry at the CIS ships then focus fire with torpedoes (and a SPHA-T maglocked to the hull that ROTS showed could one-shot a Munificent, both weapons that would have been included in the initial GAR package) at the weak points of CIS ships (or at least the overwhelming majority of them, which were Munificents and Recusants) and overwhelm the defenses of larger ships like the Providence and Lucrehulk. During the engagement the ships would be equipped with increased point-defense weapons and modified to carry more fighters to cover from smallcraft attacks, and these would return to the ships once the battle is won. Following this sudden precision strike, the Acclamators jump into hyperspace before Separatist reinforcements in any significant numbers can arrive to box them in, due to the best capital ship hyperdrives the CIS having being class-1s to the Acclamator's class 0.6. While this tactic wouldn't save the Republic in the long run due to the CIS' greater initial industrial capacity and control of more assets, it would definitely allow them to survive for longer against a competent CIS that is allowed to stretch its wings.
honestly I love the CIS the more I learn about them. as much as I love the the republic military and the clone army, the CIS has easily became to favorite faction.
I love how grievous create a federal navy system which delegate defence to local people and attacks to the central government. Marking miliary baurocracy very efficient and capable.
Let's see, various types of vessels that can all working in conjunction seamlessly, cheap droid strikecraft that can be made in vastly more numbers than organic piloted strikecraft, capable leadership, overwhelming force, never being predictable, etc. Yeah, I'm going with the CIS for the best navy in all of Star Wars
Yeah, all you would need is a smaller, escort ship like the Lancer and a rapid-response ship with a better hyperdrive than all the others, like the Acclamator, and an interdictor ship, but those things could easily be done with the technological expertise and resource control of the CIS given time.
It's funny how a droid army was probably the most practical thing you can build in stars wars. You can use cheap materials, their easy to mass produce, takes up the least amount of space, and you don't need to feed them and if needed they could create more powerful and specialized units for combat with units to spare. All around great army.
Honestly, the entirei CIS military was just genious according to the universe in which it operates. If it wasnt for good olf Cheev, things would have probably end up ratter quickly
I would argue their greatest advantage aside from proper unit assingment, the right tool for the right job, was its weaponry Instead of using short range broadsides the CIS trusted a lot on long rage heavy turbolasers, long range ion cannons and an absurd ammount of missiles, picking appart republic fleets before they could get in range (thats why I'd argue the Vulture is a superior multirole fighter than the Z-95) until total mobilization of the republic turned it from a tactics war to a pure numbers war Their use of fewer longer range guns is the most OP thing naval warfare has and in real life it meant a total overhaul of naval tactics, since this "all-big gun" ships could outrange and overpower anything
Long ago the CIS Navy sucked. Then everything changed when General Grievous attacked! LOL. Also, asset diversity is all well and good, but hen you find a ship that is cool and good you field as much as possible so it becomes you're groups symbol. And then you can do poetic stuff with it, like the crashed and destroyed Venator at the end of the Siege of Mandalore arc. The Venator was not just the symbol of the Republic, but the Jedi as well, so seeing it in it's state at the end of the arc really reflect the state of the Republic and Jedi. A symbol of goodness and hope for so long in the Clone Wars series, now just hulking destroyed wreckage, reflective of what happened to the Republic and Jedi Order. Plus, the less ship types I have to choose from the better when I'm writing a fanfic, because if I have too many option I have a tough time choosing because there are so many good ones, but I can't include them all because then the space battle would get to big and convoluted with all these ship types, unless it was a major game changing possible final battle, like the Battle of Endor or something.
While I wish the Republic won this video, I have to say that this makes me think of Legends and Canon Clone Wars writers in a new light. They really give the CIS the tools to be a dangerous villain. Large droid army, large droid navy, and ruthless tactics, not to mention ruthless commanders. For a faction that started out with noble, understandable, and in some cases necessary for survival motivations, they really were made by Dooku to go down a dark road.
@@SenHai I don’t know. I would think the reason most Separatists remained loyal was because Dooku at least followed through on one policy promise, letting each world handle its own issues without government interference. Maybe also a decrease in national taxes. Still, I do think the good worlds might have been outnumbered by not just the megacorporations, but also the corrupt governments and dictatorships Dooku brought in. You would think someone would take issue with Dooku’s low or nonexistent moral standards for new members and allies like the Zygerrian Slave Empire.
Can you do a video commenting on how Dave Filoni developed the Jedi in clone wars as an institution that made big mistakes and if that deviated from what George Lucas developed the jedi to symbolically represent in history? Do you think this "subversion" ended up working and giving the story the depth it needed? Do you think that George Lucas already raised this question, but didn't develop it in the story of the Prequels because that wasn't the focus of the plot?
The cis navy and faction was by far the best, not only for their better understanding of tactics but also their ability to apply importance to strategy and manufacturing abilities. Really the rebels were more like pirates then an actual faction in my opinion.
Any Fleet could be given a wide range of possible winners, but it determined by their leadership. Also the following note: The Rebel Alliance was at the very beginning rebel cells that worked independent of each other, to prevent the overall collapse of the of the Rebel Alliance. In both cases of Cannon and Legends, they had engaged in larger battles with the Galactic Empire, and only thanks to leadership they were able to barely pull off victories from certain defeat, but yet more often they lost badly as anyone with true military skills, basically the high command not at the front battleline. Their warships were a mixture of converted civilian vessels, stolen military units, and old military units. Old being from the Clone Wars, from both the Republic and the CIS navy, but yet technological they were no longer the power houses as it been at least twenty years, no true updates could be offered by the Rebel Alliance, as they didn't have the resources and thus going against modern warships could be costly compared to older and newer defenses and weaponry. The New Republic sadly fallen into a similar state as the Galactic Empire and the Old Republic. Sure, they have modernized their military, but they fell into the same trap, but overall pulled great victories thanks to leadership, as their modern ships only gave them the edge. Only a few great leaders from the Rebel Alliance remain, others left to return to their old lives after winning against the Empire, and most of what made this new leadership was rookies and some aging old guard from the days of the Rebel Alliance and maybe a few from the Clone Wars. Sadly, when it came to the Imperial Navy they were under the belief and likely forced to follow the big gun fighting style. They had illusions, they the inheritors of the Republic Navy and their big gun fighting system, would grant them similar victories as the Republic did with the CIS, especially when they were going against the rag tagged Rebel Alliance Fleet. Often, they lost under the belief they were superior on one level or another, either their personal skills, their modern ships and going against an inferior fleet, which often backfired allow the Rebels to make little bits of progress that eventually collected into fatal wound. Yet there were times when great leaders appeared in the Imperial Fleet, like Thrawn and those who learned under him like Admiral Gilad Pellaeon in Legends. Overall, their failures were related to their imposed big gun fighting system and poor leadership. Now the Yuuzhan Vong, had leadership and a very unique if living technological edge that galaxy had severe issues countering, which lead to the majority of their losses. Yuuzhan Vong Tech prevented the traditional technology of the galaxy to give any level of hits that could offer slowly wear out the fighters and ships of the Yuuzhan Vong. This gave the Yuuzhan Vong the same illusion that Imperial Navy had against the Rebel Alliance, maybe even worse as the galaxy natives couldn't even harm their ships and fighters, but that was quickly shattered when the native powers found the weakness to give many bits that eventually turned into fatal wounds. Now the CIS Navy, overall while it was unique because of battle tactics thanks to improved leaderships. Sadly, they tended to have an overwhelming weakness. They threw fleets of warships against the Republic to get their victories, and at times it did it, but these victories had costs in terms of loss of ships and fighters, and battle damage. When the Republic started hitting and destroying CIS resupply points and shipyards, slowly, but surely the CIS was growing weaker as their early tactics were no longer an advantage, but an overwhelming weakness as no more ships and fighters were being produced. Another weakness was the droid navy personal, sure the advantage, you didn't have to feed or give R & R to this type of type of crew, but it had a huge disadvantage. As droids could be programmed to everything about tactics and this could give them a huge advantage against a living rookie crew, but a living rookie crew would learn and adapt, while droids would be limited to their programming. And there was the fact when the CIS Navy had living commanders, they were not of military background and were under the illusion themselves that the CIS Navy was stronger thanks to CIS propaganda, only a few could break free and lead CIS Navy to victories. Overall, to improve the CIS Navy to be better in battle, would be the crew be a mixture of living and droid, the living would have overwhelming leadership, while the droids would be serving as the never resting crew (except to recharge). A living leadership would be able to see beyond the leadership issue of a purely droid crew, as they could modify tactics and guess as how the battle will develop, and how to change if they realize or have fallen into a trap.
You forgot one important point. The Droid Star Figthers. They are very effective because the CIS was able to reproduce there Star Figthers much faster and cheaper than all other Star Wars Fractions. Reason, they need no Pilots. One on one a well trained living Pilot is much more intelligent than a Vulture or Tri Figthers Droid Brain, but it needs much time to train him. Droid Star Figthers gets build, Software check and are ready for Battle. Next advantage, because they need no Pilots, they can be smaller and that means they are harder to hit. There are some Star Trek's Star Fleet Vs. Galactic Empire vids, but if Star Fleet must stand against the CIS ( without the double crossing Supreme Leader Palpatine ) the Federation would be doomed.
Don't be too proud of this asset diversity you've integrated into the CIS fleet. The ability to wield combined arms tactics is insignificant next to the power of Plot Armour.
I sometimes wonder how General Grievous and Darth Vader would have gotten along together under Palps overarching control. We know Vader retained all his memories as Anakin and his hatred for Grievous back then. Likewise, if Grievous became aware that Vader was Anakin, there was a lot of memorable hatred from his side as well for that very resourceful Jedi. Could have been an interesting scenario, to say the least. Thanks again Geetsly's. :)
One would think that the Empire, with its vast military industries and limitless resources would have learned the lesson of the Clone Wars and diversified its fleet a bit more. I blame Tarkin.
If droid star fighters were so effective, then why didn’t future factions like the empire learn anything from this. They saw how deadly a droid starship could be, why did the continue to use star fights driven by organics?
If the Separatists can used stateless strategy, can they used the Mongol tactics such as fake retreat? And if it is possible, which location will be more effective if it is applied between on the ground or in space.
kinda have to blame the kaminoians for the repubic's lack of ships as they only ordered the acclemator and they where not admirals. they should of asked several retired admirals to help with ship orders same with ground vehicles
I think if the republic just stuck with the acclimator and all its variants it would achieve far greater ship numbers while also having a fleet that is a jack of all trades master of some (since it is still an overall superb ship). If this happened then the fleet while less interesting would be a lot easier to mass produce and a lot more flexible as well. It might not be on par with the separatists and their specialist ship types but it would make it a lot more robust in the early days until the victory class came along. The venator was a good carrier but it isn't worth having it as your go to ship type if it means sacrificing other classes, mainly the ones for fighting on the front line and planetary invasion.
The issue with the Acclimator is it's crew size compared to it's size/power The Republic Navy was having manpower problems during the war as is, relying on the Acclimator, with it's reliance on trying to match the CIS quantity, would have increased manpower attrition MASSIVELY A balanced fleet, with the Victory-Class serving as the actual capital ships, not the Venator, would be a far superior option in basically every regard
Wonder why they flipped the idea of starfighters from both trilogies and made up some reason for why one strategy is inferior in the OT but superior in the clone wars
acclamators were absolutely not designed to take hits, they were mostly hollow cargo ships with a large number of weapons strapped on, what you really want is the Victory 1 star destroyer, or even the early imperator (predacessor to the imperial I) to soak up the turbo lasers while your venators overwhelm them with fighters
@@toymachine5656 both the victory I and imperator class were put into service before the end of the clone wars, even the TIE fighter was in limited service to function as a replacement to the V-19 Torrent, the victory fulfilled a long range fire support role to the imperators
So if Darth Sidious hadn't been pulling the strings and with the separatists having larger fleets, more ships in terms of numbers, better fleet diversity in ships and more flexible strategy could they have pulled off a win in the clone wars?
Definitely the CIS Navy. The Republic and Empire, well we all know the weren’t the sharpest Tool in the Shed when it comes to that whole Fleet Thing. The Rebels have potential and are definitely better then the Republic and Empire but unlike the CIS due to various constraints they never had the Chance to field a purposebuilt Navy and instead had to make the best out of what they had available wich to be fair worked out for them in the End.
So who wins on ground combat? I want to say the Galactic Republic because I’m a major clone trooper fan, but I suppose I’m being too hopeful. We know it’s not the Rebel Alliance because they didn’t really have a ground force. Heck, when it comes to the Original Trilogy and beyond that in Legends and Canon, the focus is seriously on space combat with ground combat usually being small strike teams. I suppose the Empire wouldn’t be the winner, it’s force designed to strike fear and terror instead of combat effectiveness. While the infantry like stormtroopers and Imperial Army Troopers can be effective, their vehicles and walkers-at least the famous ones-leave a lot to be desired. I wouldn’t be surprised if Geetsly named the Separatists as the winner on ground combat again. As much as I hate it, the Separatists can basically pull all their same naval traits for their ground forces. Diverse types of troops and vehicles, massive numbers, and can now operate independently from command ships unlike at the Invasion of Naboo. And let me guess, the Republic loses because it is dependent on just a few million clone troopers for attacking and it’s led by the Jedi Order who take awhile to actually get the hang of military command, even afterwards still holding back because of morals and mercy to the detriment of military success as pointed out by Tarkin and Anakin and even X1 from Battlefront Elite Squadron. While the Republic has a redeeming factor with its own mechanized forces, it’s outweighed by its infantry and commanders.
If star wars clone wars wasn't so plot armored for the jedi and the republic and how not ridiculous they made the CIS appear, we could've seen how truly horrifying the separatists should be.
both republic and empire could have better navies but the leaders on both factions where too stupid too prideful and too lazy to improve, and yeah using the same ship type makes it cheaper but isnt necesary good on a war, im willing to say palpatine grand plan relay on everybody being incompetent on their job
I respectfully disagree. The New Republic fleet after it was reorganized under Ackbar, Bel Iblis, A'Bhatt and Antilles during the Warlord Era and Yuuzhan Vong War was far superior to the Confederate Navy in terms of composition and tactics. It could effectively carry out the Stateless Strategy while also adapting to the role of the dominant power with the ability to both offensively harass and also defensively protect their own territory. Your analysis also forgets that the Confederacy was partly successful through Sidious and Tyranus restraining the Republic as well, many early potential knock out blows were sabotaged by the Sith Lords managing both sides to prolong the conflict. With the Republic militarization the truth was that the Separatist Navy required resources and worlds to supply it, by focusing on taking those away, the Republic reduced the Confederacy to the role of harassment and raider rather than conqueror.
Dunno if they THE BEST. Like ever. For their time perhaps BUT it largely depends on WHOM is in charge of everything else an what era. Highly doubt the Empire at the height of it's power would have ANY issues at all thoroughly crushing this force at it's biggest an strongest just due to the advancement of Technology and that's just what the Empire was largely designed to do. The likes of this Era's Tarkin, Thrawn, Ibis an Adm Raddus for example are some of if not THE best naval Master Admirals this franchise ever has seen. It's NOT "really tactics" nor is it any sorta strategic competency if your really a one trick pony who's only real tactic is to throw what you've got in a frontal charge an hope for the best. Grevious for being so good got his ass kicked more then once doing that. An in very clever an genius ways so he clearly wasn't that good. Compared to someone like Thrawn Grevious wouldn't stand a chance. Seeing that Thrawn has been known to beat way bigger navies with what barely could be considered a squadron or battle group more then once, was kinda known for stuff like that. If the CIS was the best ever how come the much smaller Republic managed to hold their own an with genius, flexible, an both powerful and competent battlefield commanders like Anakin, Tarkin an Yoda for example as well as MANY more then that when you count some of the other Jedi an many clones this strategy of throw what you got at them doesn't work so well. The confederacy only worked so well cuz for so long it was so big
![Standard Clone Trooper Tactics vs Standard CIS Tactics [Visualised]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DKldUbdpJww/mqdefault.jpg)
![A Guide to the Separatist’s Greatest Vehicular Creations of the Clone Wars [Volume 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dsmVpjsqBkI/mqdefault.jpg)
It's said the Vulture droid starfighters are very unpredictable when engaged in combat. Clone pilots have to use some unorthodox tactics just to take one down. That's the biggest reason why Clone troopers fear that droid so much.
The tri fighters were badass
@@solastro5595 that too
There's also those scary buzz droids...
The CIS is the only Star Wars faction that has had extensive use of droid ships from a logistical point of view that makes a lot of sense. Going to the capital ships, the munificient-class frigates and the recusant-class destroyers are quite interesting because they are cheap capital ships that can be mass-produced, as well as automated.
General Kenobi talking nice about the CIS?
You flatter me hahahhhhaaa(cough cough cough) took you long enough
@@GeneralGrievous6622 Roger Roger.
@@As-iy2ki now I’m wondering when assassin maul will show up to air his greviences
@@GeneralGrievous6622 By the way, why is your name General Grevious when your profile picture is the logo of the Jedi Order? 🤔
I believe for non cannon, the eternal fleet of the eternal empire was much more logistically sufficient and it lacked the cons of the CIS.
The Confederacy has perhaps the biggest advantage when it comes to any commander great desire, and that is to give him a steady supply of manpower, and with the largest droid army in Galactic history they are able to order their droids to suicidal attacks without affecting the morale of other droids.
Gunray- “my lord, how will we wage war against an entire galactic government?”
Sidious- “Hear me out, we make.. a lot of droids. Like a lot of droids. Like a pants shitting amount of them.”
Gunray- “Word.”
Sidious - “And we’ll have an asthmatic cyborg to order them around”
The Yuuzhan Vong would arguably very well set up. Or considering the diversity of ships, the Imperial Navy with an enlightened commander like Thrawn that you pointed out. It's never the Navy, it's the leadership. This is true for just about every faction.
No, the Navy wins thanks to the leadership, but so does every other war branch.
Never liked the whole Yuuzhan Vong idea. Feels not very Star-Wars-y and also kinda is a redemption for Palpatine, who is supposed to be the biggest villain of the galaxy.
@@LegioXXI It's not Palpatine's redemption, if he knew about it he prepared for it only to save his own grip over the Galaxy
@@LegioXXI at a certain point you run out of bad guys that doesn't sound like a broken record. I know that the Yuuzhav Vong garner love or hatred in their introduction. As a arc that broadens the possibilities of the size of the galaxy/universe though I think it was needed. There are other species and threats that exist that I thought were poorly done, the Tof and Nagai for instance or the creature that escapes me at the moment that uses the anti-force and is from another dimension.
The Yuuzhan Vong are just that "hey the galaxy is big and things can be shaped other than the Jedi or Sith."
Back to the navy question though, they are only ever as good as the author intends them to be.
The Ackbar Slash for example in SW is probably a terrible tactic. It assumes that line of ISDs for example won't shift in any plane and are able to concentrate 100% of their firepower (energy) and shields against a single target at a time as the line proceeds, and that target has to use shields in all directions and disperse its fire against an enemy in a 360 degree arc (for simplicities sake). It sounds amazing, the Ackbar Slash! Then you go through the 3 dimensional line if battle thought process and it is a suicidal manuver...
Most authors write first then think about tactics or ships... maybe. When people who think about ships and tactics first look closer...things don't pan out so well.
@@chrisheitstuman6360 Is the other creature the Charon?
I've always wondered why didn't they use droid pilots during the Civil War. Droid pilots could fly at impossible speeds that would've crushed any organics.
The CIS definitely had the most underrated and underutilized navy in Star Wars history that was proactively nerfed and weakened by Sidious and Dooku's efforts to keep the Clone Wars going. It easily had a infrastructure and operation that would have rivaled and surpassed even the Star Forge's production rate all together. RIP in CIS navy. You would have beaten back a invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong and beaten the Republic if you were able to free yourself from Palpatine and Dooku's intent influence.
Would of been like EVE Online shipyards on steroids.
Video Idea: The Lamest Admiral in Star Wars
Wasn’t it the guy Vader finally choked out in Episode V? Or was Geetsy talking about a General, and that was him at the time
No, the most milquetoast admiral in star wars.
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Admiral Kendel Ozzel. That guy isn't just an incompetent Admiral, he is also a coward. Most of his tactics involve just going in guns blazing. In fact, he is the reason the tactics during the Battle of Hoth were awful.
Ozzel, useless doesn't even begin to describe this guy.
@@Jaeger_Bishop useless is an understatement.
I could picture thrawn and grievous working together in a alternate timeline.
Same. Thrawn and Grievous are basically the Hindenburg and Ludendorff of Star Wars.
@@StonewallTitlow if it wasn't for imperial propaganda against aliens and droids, grievous would've been a great asset to the empire.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 indeed.
@@StonewallTitlow yep
Cool idea, but Thrawn would constantly criticize Grievous' genocides and Grievous probably would've killed him at one point. Thrawn was no monster, after all. Grievous however...
Admiral Trench was a beast and by far the best naval commander of the Clone Wars .
*thumbnail*
Unlucky Pilot: "Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation."
It all started when a bounty hunter was hired by a Sith Lord to create the best fighting force in the Galaxy.
In Media Res storytelling for the win.
2:00
A shame general grievous in the clone wars TV show was pretty much just a comic relief.
I miss his first appearance in the 2003 clone wars animation.
Grievous: droid ships
Also Grievous: uses aliens
Gotta love how their naval tactics are so great while their land tactics are basically just throw as many battle droids as possible at the enemy
“Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.”
- Euripides
Soviets
Yeah but this "wise quote" was from before the industrial revolution. In "modern" warfare logistics, resources, supplies and manpower (or droidpower) are everything.
They days of glorious frontline heroes like Alexander or Caesar are over.
I would also argue that had palpatine not handicapped them on making their ground forces better then the CIS would stomp the republic there as well
Nice to see a non-Sun Tzu military adage here.
"But can those 10 soldiers beat a thousand?" -The CIS, probably
There are three things that make the CIS navy the best, at least in my book.
1. Modularity
2. Size
3. Incomparable Leadership
Being a terrifying cyborg Jedi slayer who routinely lost in the clone wars animated series, it's easy to forget that Grievous was just an exceedingly brilliant general and tactician.
That's because Filoni completely emasculated Grievous in his Clone Wars. Instead of being a genius Grievous was defeated by Gungans. Genndy's Grievous will always be the real one.
You do realize Gungans are a WARRIOR race and not the example set by Jar Jar? There was a reason why the Naboo had a formidable military (not comparable to the droids) during the first battle of Naboo.
Besides, Genndy’s depiction of the Clone Wars is borderline fanfiction with how over the top and overpowered everyone is.
Honestly, at least in legends, when hyperspace travel consistently took longer, I have to give the Republic a solid number 2 spot because their craft were so specced for rapid response- class .6 and .7 hyperdrives on your main carriers and battlecruisers? Acclamators able to outrun bombers? RHE really outdid themselves in creating a force that could be flexible. Fast hyperdrives seem less relevant now in Disney canon where there aren't any hyperspace trips that take longer than a few minutes, even for comparatively sluggish class 4 hyperdrives
yeah, a lot of people underestimate the strategic importance of different hyperdrive speeds. And considering that the design of CIS ships made them heavily-reliant on powerful shields for defense and more skeletal, utilitarian frames, the Republic should have tripled down on having a mobile, rapid-response and skirmishing naval doctrine where Acclamators would come in from hyperspace and fire an overwhelming amount of ion weaponry at the CIS ships then focus fire with torpedoes (and a SPHA-T maglocked to the hull that ROTS showed could one-shot a Munificent, both weapons that would have been included in the initial GAR package) at the weak points of CIS ships (or at least the overwhelming majority of them, which were Munificents and Recusants) and overwhelm the defenses of larger ships like the Providence and Lucrehulk. During the engagement the ships would be equipped with increased point-defense weapons and modified to carry more fighters to cover from smallcraft attacks, and these would return to the ships once the battle is won. Following this sudden precision strike, the Acclamators jump into hyperspace before Separatist reinforcements in any significant numbers can arrive to box them in, due to the best capital ship hyperdrives the CIS having being class-1s to the Acclamator's class 0.6.
While this tactic wouldn't save the Republic in the long run due to the CIS' greater initial industrial capacity and control of more assets, it would definitely allow them to survive for longer against a competent CIS that is allowed to stretch its wings.
The separatist space combat and their naval strategy are insane
honestly I love the CIS the more I learn about them. as much as I love the the republic military and the clone army, the CIS has easily became to favorite faction.
I love how grievous create a federal navy system which delegate defence to local people and attacks to the central government. Marking miliary baurocracy very efficient and capable.
Let's see, various types of vessels that can all working in conjunction seamlessly, cheap droid strikecraft that can be made in vastly more numbers than organic piloted strikecraft, capable leadership, overwhelming force, never being predictable, etc.
Yeah, I'm going with the CIS for the best navy in all of Star Wars
Yeah, all you would need is a smaller, escort ship like the Lancer and a rapid-response ship with a better hyperdrive than all the others, like the Acclamator, and an interdictor ship, but those things could easily be done with the technological expertise and resource control of the CIS given time.
It's funny how a droid army was probably the most practical thing you can build in stars wars. You can use cheap materials, their easy to mass produce, takes up the least amount of space, and you don't need to feed them and if needed they could create more powerful and specialized units for combat with units to spare. All around great army.
Honestly, the entirei CIS military was just genious according to the universe in which it operates.
If it wasnt for good olf Cheev, things would have probably end up ratter quickly
3:10
geetsly: it was the republics superior industrial capacity that allowed the confederate navy to be defeated in the end
the senate: ...
The one thing I hate about TCW series is how they make Grevious look like an incompetent coward when he was more dangerous than given credit for!
Separatist Navy tactics: "Space Zerg Rush!"
Basically, the late stages of Homeworld.
I would argue their greatest advantage aside from proper unit assingment, the right tool for the right job, was its weaponry
Instead of using short range broadsides the CIS trusted a lot on long rage heavy turbolasers, long range ion cannons and an absurd ammount of missiles, picking appart republic fleets before they could get in range (thats why I'd argue the Vulture is a superior multirole fighter than the Z-95) until total mobilization of the republic turned it from a tactics war to a pure numbers war
Their use of fewer longer range guns is the most OP thing naval warfare has and in real life it meant a total overhaul of naval tactics, since this "all-big gun" ships could outrange and overpower anything
CIS does have some good ships and starfighters.
Long ago the CIS Navy sucked. Then everything changed when General Grievous attacked! LOL.
Also, asset diversity is all well and good, but hen you find a ship that is cool and good you field as much as possible so it becomes you're groups symbol. And then you can do poetic stuff with it, like the crashed and destroyed Venator at the end of the Siege of Mandalore arc. The Venator was not just the symbol of the Republic, but the Jedi as well, so seeing it in it's state at the end of the arc really reflect the state of the Republic and Jedi. A symbol of goodness and hope for so long in the Clone Wars series, now just hulking destroyed wreckage, reflective of what happened to the Republic and Jedi Order.
Plus, the less ship types I have to choose from the better when I'm writing a fanfic, because if I have too many option I have a tough time choosing because there are so many good ones, but I can't include them all because then the space battle would get to big and convoluted with all these ship types, unless it was a major game changing possible final battle, like the Battle of Endor or something.
While I wish the Republic won this video, I have to say that this makes me think of Legends and Canon Clone Wars writers in a new light. They really give the CIS the tools to be a dangerous villain. Large droid army, large droid navy, and ruthless tactics, not to mention ruthless commanders. For a faction that started out with noble, understandable, and in some cases necessary for survival motivations, they really were made by Dooku to go down a dark road.
Well the Corporations were evil too. The good voices on the CIS side had little to no actual power
@@SenHai I don’t know. I would think the reason most Separatists remained loyal was because Dooku at least followed through on one policy promise, letting each world handle its own issues without government interference. Maybe also a decrease in national taxes. Still, I do think the good worlds might have been outnumbered by not just the megacorporations, but also the corrupt governments and dictatorships Dooku brought in. You would think someone would take issue with Dooku’s low or nonexistent moral standards for new members and allies like the Zygerrian Slave Empire.
I love the miniature hahaha that poor pilot, co-pilot and gunner are already dead
Can you do a video commenting on how Dave Filoni developed the Jedi in clone wars as an institution that made big mistakes and if that deviated from what George Lucas developed the jedi to symbolically represent in history? Do you think this "subversion" ended up working and giving the story the depth it needed? Do you think that George Lucas already raised this question, but didn't develop it in the story of the Prequels because that wasn't the focus of the plot?
George was part of the Clone Wars show, he could have axed the idea if he didn't intend it
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о It's true, but it seems he doesn't share Dave Filoni's view of the Jedi Council.
Geetsly: The imperial navy didn't grasp proper tactics
Thrawn: I've only ever used the best tactics
Geetsly: I know and we love you
The cis navy and faction was by far the best, not only for their better understanding of tactics but also their ability to apply importance to strategy and manufacturing abilities.
Really the rebels were more like pirates then an actual faction in my opinion.
Any Fleet could be given a wide range of possible winners, but it determined by their leadership. Also the following note:
The Rebel Alliance was at the very beginning rebel cells that worked independent of each other, to prevent the overall collapse of the of the Rebel Alliance. In both cases of Cannon and Legends, they had engaged in larger battles with the Galactic Empire, and only thanks to leadership they were able to barely pull off victories from certain defeat, but yet more often they lost badly as anyone with true military skills, basically the high command not at the front battleline. Their warships were a mixture of converted civilian vessels, stolen military units, and old military units. Old being from the Clone Wars, from both the Republic and the CIS navy, but yet technological they were no longer the power houses as it been at least twenty years, no true updates could be offered by the Rebel Alliance, as they didn't have the resources and thus going against modern warships could be costly compared to older and newer defenses and weaponry.
The New Republic sadly fallen into a similar state as the Galactic Empire and the Old Republic. Sure, they have modernized their military, but they fell into the same trap, but overall pulled great victories thanks to leadership, as their modern ships only gave them the edge. Only a few great leaders from the Rebel Alliance remain, others left to return to their old lives after winning against the Empire, and most of what made this new leadership was rookies and some aging old guard from the days of the Rebel Alliance and maybe a few from the Clone Wars.
Sadly, when it came to the Imperial Navy they were under the belief and likely forced to follow the big gun fighting style. They had illusions, they the inheritors of the Republic Navy and their big gun fighting system, would grant them similar victories as the Republic did with the CIS, especially when they were going against the rag tagged Rebel Alliance Fleet. Often, they lost under the belief they were superior on one level or another, either their personal skills, their modern ships and going against an inferior fleet, which often backfired allow the Rebels to make little bits of progress that eventually collected into fatal wound. Yet there were times when great leaders appeared in the Imperial Fleet, like Thrawn and those who learned under him like Admiral Gilad Pellaeon in Legends. Overall, their failures were related to their imposed big gun fighting system and poor leadership.
Now the Yuuzhan Vong, had leadership and a very unique if living technological edge that galaxy had severe issues countering, which lead to the majority of their losses. Yuuzhan Vong Tech prevented the traditional technology of the galaxy to give any level of hits that could offer slowly wear out the fighters and ships of the Yuuzhan Vong. This gave the Yuuzhan Vong the same illusion that Imperial Navy had against the Rebel Alliance, maybe even worse as the galaxy natives couldn't even harm their ships and fighters, but that was quickly shattered when the native powers found the weakness to give many bits that eventually turned into fatal wounds.
Now the CIS Navy, overall while it was unique because of battle tactics thanks to improved leaderships. Sadly, they tended to have an overwhelming weakness. They threw fleets of warships against the Republic to get their victories, and at times it did it, but these victories had costs in terms of loss of ships and fighters, and battle damage. When the Republic started hitting and destroying CIS resupply points and shipyards, slowly, but surely the CIS was growing weaker as their early tactics were no longer an advantage, but an overwhelming weakness as no more ships and fighters were being produced. Another weakness was the droid navy personal, sure the advantage, you didn't have to feed or give R & R to this type of type of crew, but it had a huge disadvantage. As droids could be programmed to everything about tactics and this could give them a huge advantage against a living rookie crew, but a living rookie crew would learn and adapt, while droids would be limited to their programming. And there was the fact when the CIS Navy had living commanders, they were not of military background and were under the illusion themselves that the CIS Navy was stronger thanks to CIS propaganda, only a few could break free and lead CIS Navy to victories. Overall, to improve the CIS Navy to be better in battle, would be the crew be a mixture of living and droid, the living would have overwhelming leadership, while the droids would be serving as the never resting crew (except to recharge). A living leadership would be able to see beyond the leadership issue of a purely droid crew, as they could modify tactics and guess as how the battle will develop, and how to change if they realize or have fallen into a trap.
LCPL Chops reporting in, I gotta agree. Even in BF2 they feel more powerful.
You forgot one important point. The Droid Star Figthers. They are very effective because the CIS was able to reproduce there Star Figthers much faster and cheaper than all other Star Wars Fractions. Reason, they need no Pilots. One on one a well trained living Pilot is much more intelligent than a Vulture or Tri Figthers Droid Brain, but it needs much time to train him. Droid Star Figthers gets build, Software check and are ready for Battle. Next advantage, because they need no Pilots, they can be smaller and that means they are harder to hit. There are some Star Trek's Star Fleet Vs. Galactic Empire vids, but if Star Fleet must stand against the CIS ( without the double crossing Supreme Leader Palpatine ) the Federation would be doomed.
Wonder what type of fighters anto kreegyr had at his disposal. Sounds like a few pilots. Possibly vulture or tri-droids.
im guessing belbullabs and makhoms.
Droid navies make sense on a galatic scale less reacources needed than man crewed navies
Who is the best tactician in Star Wars?
Revan, the Jedi who understood war; Grievous, the cyborg Warlord; Admiral Thrawn, the Simga male?
Don't be too proud of this asset diversity you've integrated into the CIS fleet. The ability to wield combined arms tactics is insignificant next to the power of Plot Armour.
I sometimes wonder how General Grievous and Darth Vader would have gotten along together under Palps overarching control. We know Vader retained all his memories as Anakin and his hatred for Grievous back then. Likewise, if Grievous became aware that Vader was Anakin, there was a lot of memorable hatred from his side as well for that very resourceful Jedi.
Could have been an interesting scenario, to say the least.
Thanks again Geetsly's. :)
I think it’s cool that Grievous went from fighting w sticks and stones to commanding the most sophisticated galactic navy.
One would think that the Empire, with its vast military industries and limitless resources would have learned the lesson of the Clone Wars and diversified its fleet a bit more. I blame Tarkin.
Tbf they did have Many different Ship types. They Just never used them enough. Tarkins fault for Sure.
If droid star fighters were so effective, then why didn’t future factions like the empire learn anything from this. They saw how deadly a droid starship could be, why did the continue to use star fights driven by organics?
Asset diversity is one way to explain the Rebels sending in minimally armed GR-75's into battle 😄
If the Separatists can used stateless strategy, can they used the Mongol tactics such as fake retreat? And if it is possible, which location will be more effective if it is applied between on the ground or in space.
kinda have to blame the kaminoians for the repubic's lack of ships as they only ordered the acclemator and they where not admirals. they should of asked several retired admirals to help with ship orders same with ground vehicles
CIS: carefully putting the best ships together to create a powerful navy.
REPUBLIC: STAR DESTROYER SPAM!
Unrelated, but every time someone brings up the IGBC I immediately hear "Igga Bicka" in my head. Hehehehehheehhehehehehehe
I think if the republic just stuck with the acclimator and all its variants it would achieve far greater ship numbers while also having a fleet that is a jack of all trades master of some (since it is still an overall superb ship). If this happened then the fleet while less interesting would be a lot easier to mass produce and a lot more flexible as well. It might not be on par with the separatists and their specialist ship types but it would make it a lot more robust in the early days until the victory class came along. The venator was a good carrier but it isn't worth having it as your go to ship type if it means sacrificing other classes, mainly the ones for fighting on the front line and planetary invasion.
The issue with the Acclimator is it's crew size compared to it's size/power
The Republic Navy was having manpower problems during the war as is, relying on the Acclimator, with it's reliance on trying to match the CIS quantity, would have increased manpower attrition MASSIVELY
A balanced fleet, with the Victory-Class serving as the actual capital ships, not the Venator, would be a far superior option in basically every regard
Laughs in İmperial forces yeeting them just under a year
I wonder how admiral Thrawn and general grievous fight navy style
Wonder why they flipped the idea of starfighters from both trilogies and made up some reason for why one strategy is inferior in the OT but superior in the clone wars
And yet they have the bridge at the very front of the ship.
I would have Acclamators around the Venators, because they were beefier than Venators and meant for taking hits and being space tanks
acclamators were absolutely not designed to take hits, they were mostly hollow cargo ships with a large number of weapons strapped on, what you really want is the Victory 1 star destroyer, or even the early imperator (predacessor to the imperial I) to soak up the turbo lasers while your venators overwhelm them with fighters
Isn’t that a star destroyer from the imperial times
@@toymachine5656 both the victory I and imperator class were put into service before the end of the clone wars, even the TIE fighter was in limited service to function as a replacement to the V-19 Torrent, the victory fulfilled a long range fire support role to the imperators
ok
ok
Siths and giggles 😂 nice
Robot army goes “Roger Roger”
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Grand Admiral Thrawn? I thought not
So if Darth Sidious hadn't been pulling the strings and with the separatists having larger fleets, more ships in terms of numbers, better fleet diversity in ships and more flexible strategy could they have pulled off a win in the clone wars?
Definitely the CIS Navy. The Republic and Empire, well we all know the weren’t the sharpest Tool in the Shed when it comes to that whole Fleet Thing. The Rebels have potential and are definitely better then the Republic and Empire but unlike the CIS due to various constraints they never had the Chance to field a purposebuilt Navy and instead had to make the best out of what they had available wich to be fair worked out for them in the End.
Nicely informative video
What other Capital ships could the clone wars era Republic have used?
If palpatine didn't have control of both sides I believe that the confederacy would have been a enven hard ops to defeat
Geetsly's: The CIS had the best naval fleet in galactic history.
Darth Revan: *hehehehe Starforge go brrrrrrr*
I think we're forgetting the old sith and Republic fleets
Imagine a lucrehulk full of tie defenders..
With Missile Boats in reserve?
@@michaelandreipalon359 Obviously
Roger Roger
So who wins on ground combat? I want to say the Galactic Republic because I’m a major clone trooper fan, but I suppose I’m being too hopeful. We know it’s not the Rebel Alliance because they didn’t really have a ground force. Heck, when it comes to the Original Trilogy and beyond that in Legends and Canon, the focus is seriously on space combat with ground combat usually being small strike teams. I suppose the Empire wouldn’t be the winner, it’s force designed to strike fear and terror instead of combat effectiveness. While the infantry like stormtroopers and Imperial Army Troopers can be effective, their vehicles and walkers-at least the famous ones-leave a lot to be desired.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Geetsly named the Separatists as the winner on ground combat again. As much as I hate it, the Separatists can basically pull all their same naval traits for their ground forces. Diverse types of troops and vehicles, massive numbers, and can now operate independently from command ships unlike at the Invasion of Naboo. And let me guess, the Republic loses because it is dependent on just a few million clone troopers for attacking and it’s led by the Jedi Order who take awhile to actually get the hang of military command, even afterwards still holding back because of morals and mercy to the detriment of military success as pointed out by Tarkin and Anakin and even X1 from Battlefront Elite Squadron. While the Republic has a redeeming factor with its own mechanized forces, it’s outweighed by its infantry and commanders.
The Senate had the BEST strategy overall.
I AM THE SENATE , Palpatine said calmly.
@@Stuychess
Not yet , Mace windu said calmly.
I want to see a world of warplanes or tanks but with starwars vehicles instead
Well, there's TIE Fighter+X-Wing Alliance and the original Battlefront duology for that, sort of.
@@michaelandreipalon359 imagine if they made another galactic battlegrounds game i love the expanding fronts mod id reccomend it
@@thundermite1241 It's good, I know, but I'm still more into Empire at War and even Age of Empires II: DE.
Geetsly can you make a video about lord Momin or jedi shaak ti?
Just where do you find the preview stills?
What about the Eternal Empire?
Can we all agree that if Palpatine was not controlling the war behind the scenes the cis would have won hands down
Swarming a enemy always works 99% of the time lol
I always said that i was the reason the CIS had gotten better if it weren't for me they would have never made it so far
Still insignificant compared to their upper-morals and more familiar Rebel successors though.
Palpatine: no (:
If star wars clone wars wasn't so plot armored for the jedi and the republic and how not ridiculous they made the CIS appear, we could've seen how truly horrifying the separatists should be.
well the separatists were also plot armored and really extremely enhanced
Too bad we didn't watch Grievous's campaigns in Filoni's Clone Wars. Especially Operation Durge's Lance. :/
Umm..... I guess The Infinite Empire and the Star Forge fleet doesn't count???
both republic and empire could have better navies but the leaders on both factions where too stupid too prideful and too lazy to improve, and yeah using the same ship type makes it cheaper but isnt necesary good on a war, im willing to say palpatine grand plan relay on everybody being incompetent on their job
Ok
Still waiting on more legos of these ships. Still nothing smh.
I respectfully disagree. The New Republic fleet after it was reorganized under Ackbar, Bel Iblis, A'Bhatt and Antilles during the Warlord Era and Yuuzhan Vong War was far superior to the Confederate Navy in terms of composition and tactics.
It could effectively carry out the Stateless Strategy while also adapting to the role of the dominant power with the ability to both offensively harass and also defensively protect their own territory.
Your analysis also forgets that the Confederacy was partly successful through Sidious and Tyranus restraining the Republic as well, many early potential knock out blows were sabotaged by the Sith Lords managing both sides to prolong the conflict. With the Republic militarization the truth was that the Separatist Navy required resources and worlds to supply it, by focusing on taking those away, the Republic reduced the Confederacy to the role of harassment and raider rather than conqueror.
I’ll always have a soft spot for the imperial Stardestroyer
Darth sidious is the only reason the CIS didn't win the clone wars.
bit of a low bar calling mixing ship classes "genius"
Such a pity we don't get anything proper from the CIS perspective. It's all Republic Progerganda. :P
CIS best faction.
Like 616
Dunno if they THE BEST. Like ever. For their time perhaps BUT it largely depends on WHOM is in charge of everything else an what era. Highly doubt the Empire at the height of it's power would have ANY issues at all thoroughly crushing this force at it's biggest an strongest just due to the advancement of Technology and that's just what the Empire was largely designed to do.
The likes of this Era's Tarkin, Thrawn, Ibis an Adm Raddus for example are some of if not THE best naval Master Admirals this franchise ever has seen. It's NOT "really tactics" nor is it any sorta strategic competency if your really a one trick pony who's only real tactic is to throw what you've got in a frontal charge an hope for the best. Grevious for being so good got his ass kicked more then once doing that. An in very clever an genius ways so he clearly wasn't that good. Compared to someone like Thrawn Grevious wouldn't stand a chance. Seeing that Thrawn has been known to beat way bigger navies with what barely could be considered a squadron or battle group more then once, was kinda known for stuff like that. If the CIS was the best ever how come the much smaller Republic managed to hold their own an with genius, flexible, an both powerful and competent battlefield commanders like Anakin, Tarkin an Yoda for example as well as MANY more then that when you count some of the other Jedi an many clones this strategy of throw what you got at them doesn't work so well. The confederacy only worked so well cuz for so long it was so big
First YAY