@@sloan4778 yes but does the ref have to pick it up or can you leave it where it is as I have been called foul on leaving it where it is and playing it from that position.
Should one play towards cushion when remaining with black ball (i.e when black ball and cue ball are touching) or just play since it's the only object ball remaining?
@@zoelafa4813 if it is a touching ball even if it’s the black and that’s the only ball left on the table you must play away and hit any cushion otherwise it is deemed a standard foul and incoming player has ball in hand
Remember guys, despite this company calling these rules "international", nobody actually uses them. Most competitive sport uses official WPA 8-ball rules. They are pretty similar except that WPA rules do not allow flukes but allow solid-to-stripe combo shots for potting balls when colors haven't been nominated yet. Intentional fouls are also just regular ball-in-hand fouls, which makes total sense as nobody should have to argue about what was intentional or unintentional foul.
I don’t think any sport should disallow flukes, they’re part of sport, and if you did then you’d have players making difficult pots which may look like a fluke but aren’t. What goes around comes around with flukes. The idea in the UK of hitting a red onto a yellow for your first pot seems alien, you wouldn’t be allowed to play that shot any other time during the frame. As for intentional fouls, there’s very little need to argue about whether it was intentional or not as it’d be obvious to the referee and the punishment/consequence is accepted. It’s there most likely to allow players to pot balls over pockets to allow the frame to be played at a decent pace and not become a stalemate.
I've been practising these a bit and like the rules overall, but think they've missed a trick in a couple of places. One is that Open Table isn't really open, which I've covered in another comment (replaying to Julien Ghaddar), below. The other is I don't understand why not playing your own ball first needs to be loss of frame. It takes us back to the situation where people have to make a subjective decision as to whether or not someone tried hard enough to get out of a snooker. And now that people are going to be playing these rules more and more without referees, or with referees that are teammates of one of the players, that's going to lead to problems. It's worth pointing out that in American (WPA) rules, which in most respects IR are the same as, it's not loss of frame. These 2 things introduce unnecessary complication and subjectivity into what are otherwise beautifully simple rules. They're both things where having a neutral/professional ref makes them less of a problem (although for me even then the fact that the rules are subjective and complicated is still a problem). Feels like it's maybe a consequence of the rules having been developed and honed at the top level - if they're to become standard rules then one needs to consider the choppers too :)
Yeah leaving it open to assumption is no good it doesn't make it a rule and could potentially end up in punch up's outside of tournaments like playing in a bar just like the old days when every bar had different interpretations of rules
Referees decision is final in all games at all levels so the problem you describe will only occur in non league, non tournament play. From our Local League "It should be clearly understood that the referee is the sole judge of what is fair and unfair play"
Most tournaments don't use referees _at all_ . And most leagues don't have _neutral_ referees. And when arguments happen and there is not a neutral referee, "referees decision is final" doesn't help a lot. It's not like we haven't been here before. I'm not imagining brand new problems; I'm saying that the problems that used to happen will start happening again.
There is no argument as already indicated. The refs decision is final, even when that ref comes from the opposing team in the local league. Those who argue with a ref or another player are in breach of rule 1 and 6f ( 2) and the penalty for that is loss of frame. If a player can not make a legal shot then it is a stalemate situation and a re rack (rule 6g) Players should know the rules.
With the points on the break, if a ball passes the centre line and goes in a pocket does it gain a point when it passes the centre line and then gain a point if it pots? so 2 points? or just the 1?
You can only get a maximum of one point for any given object ball (so you only count it for going in the pocket, not one point for crossing the line and then another point for being potted).
I tried international rules for the first time. I don't understand how you can deliberately miss a ball then the opponent is then snookered. This happened lots off times, i always presumed international rules was an attacking form off pool rather than league rules.
You can still miss a shot in league rules, and snooker your opponent legally, in exactly the same way as you would in international rules? Unless you're talking about the loss of turn shot, then I'm not sure what happens there.
Question on your open table combo example. If you do it just like your example and pot a stripe after hitting solid first, it turns over, but even though you did not make the solid, are you now solids or is it still open?
I thought that the point system on the break counted balls which crossed the middle line even if they returned to the other end of the table. From your example, does this mean that only balls that come to rest in the other side of the table are counted (plus potted balls)?
If they cross the line and go back then they count as having crossed the line. It's not about where they end up. Watch the first example break in the video again. Simon says that two balls went past the middle line, but only one of them has ended up at that end of the table.
The only rule I really don't agree with is having to hit a cushion after contact even when snookered. Other than that these rules have kinda grown on me.
It wouldn't be fair to the player that made the snooker. Without this rule snookering someone wouldn't be so attractive because in certain situations it's an easy way out
@Gregor Pesek I think that most people think that making snookering less attractive is a _good_ thing. Having said that, removing the total snooker rule does make things a lot simpler and there's a lot to be said for that.
The shot at 6:45ish ... playing your ball onto the opponents ball to pot it ....Leaving them snookered on their balls after this play is a legal shot. Possession is turned over and the opponent has to play from the snookered position with all normal rules applying thereafter. This is a very strong play in these rules.
It is but you don’t often see it practiced by the professionals. They would prefer to clear up rather than play snookers if they don’t need to. What it does do is stop your local average player in the club leaving colours over pockets for long spells.
@@liamnotlast4571 it depends on what you’re area are playing , we have disregarded this rule as it’s unfair on players that only play 3 games on a pool night.
After a breakshot, there is no any ball pocketed, then my opponent turn, he make a shoot but the cue ball and his object ball are pocketed at the same time. Do I still have chance to choose which color to shoot ?
Today I saw a game being played under international rules where the yellow player knocked in the 8-ball legally, but then also knocked in the remaining red ball on the table in the same shot as an accidental canon from the cueball. The cueball still ended up on the table. My understanding is that this is still a legal shot on the 8ball and the yellow player wins?
If the only ball of the break potted is the eightball, it goes back on the spot, and then does your opponent come to the table, unless you pot a ball aswell as 8ball.
The golden break is a different rule. And doesn’t apply to the question. In this case, if only the eight ball was potted, it’d get respotted and there’d be a change of turn. If a colour was potted too, the eight ball gets respotted and the player continues his turn.
@@fhdhejdnd866 If the eight-ball is the 'only ball potted on a legal break' then control of the table goes to the incoming player. If it's potted with other groups and the criteria
@@555cinqcinq you cannot pot the black with the same shot as playing your last ball that is loss of frame. But if you are on the black and you do a combination shot and pot the opponents ball including the black it is a legal shot and you win the frame
If, after a break, you pot a ball, you nominate reds and on your next shot, you pot it AND a yellow. Do you carry on with reds, is that some sort of loss of turn?
I also read that the cue ball is not allowed to leave the playing surface. I’m assuming this means if I break the balls and the cue ball jumps up, it’s ball in hand for my opponent? Jump shots are not allowed either, correct?
That's a silly rule... the cue ball leaves the playing surface every time you use follow or draw with any force... it can easily jump a penny or a dime without trying to "jump" a ball. It left the playing surface whether you notice it or not.
@@dryclimateutah That's what I was getting at 😉 I think the rule is meant to disallow jump shots only, but it reads like "the ball shall not be allowed to leave the playing surface..."
I'm still new to the differences between American/British/Chinese and International rules but in my understanding, a lose of turn means just that, that it's now the opponent's turn. A foul, on other hand will give the opponent the chance to place the cue ball anywhere (re: ball-in-hand).
After a break you said you must pot a ball before it Confirms your colour. If after nominating you fail to pot it does your opponent have a free table?
If you can't make a legal shot, for example black over the hole but opponent's ball blocking completely, and it's your visit and physically can't hit it, is it a re-rack?
Yes, but it's up to the player to declare a 'stalemate' (and the opponent, if no referee, agreeing), with the original player who broke breaking once again.
This might have been mentioned somewhere else and I've missed it, but the cushion rule... is it only an object ball hitting the cushion after initial contact that makes it a legal shot? I mean if after hitting my "red" for example the red doesn't hit the cushion but the cue ball does... is that still a legal shot?
It's practically identical to the Debliberate Foul rule in Old EPA rules and that used in Blackball rules (I haven't actually checked the wording to see if it's the same, word for word but I don't believe that they are any different). As long as you are always attempting to hit ball(s) of your own group, then you will never have a Deliberate Foul situation.
With the cushion rule, what happens if you hit the cushion with the cue ball, then the target ball, but the target ball hits another ball that hits the cushion, is that a foul?
So open table following break, play red onto yellow to pot yellow is loss of turn. Does opponent then have choice or are they yellows as I played red first?
Yeah as said above. But you’d have very little reason to play that shot, even if after a dry break from your opponent, you’d almost always have a shot on, even if a difficult one, if you didn’t have an easy pot on you’d almost be forced into attempting a double or a swerve or a plant as there’d be very little safe places to leave the cue ball.
What happens if you make the 8 on the break? When your opponent scratches on the break, can you shoot at balls in the kitchen or does the cue ball have to leave the kitchen (baulk area) before contacting a ball?
You need to shoot from the kitchen, across the Baulk Line. Once that has been done, it may come back across that line and make a ball from the kitchen.
I don't like this rule. It sounds stupid to me. I must nominate, get punished if I don't comply, however, the table is still open? It just doesn't fulfill common sense to me.
You’re not making a ball, you’re potting it. Why change from the rules I’ve played for the las 50 years. There should be two shots, not two visits and a D. No ball in hand and no potting an opponent’s ball which would be a foul. These rules are for the owners of tables to get more money. Was the same in the early 80s when the brought in two visits.
I see people saying that DF is loss of frame. But as I understand it, not all kinds of deliberate foul are loss of frame. For example you can play a shot where you deliberately fail to hit a cushion, and that's just a foul. Is that right, Simon?
@@RupeWard I know you’re talking about a specific scenario and in fairness the rules don’t cover that but a ref would use discretion. Like you may have tried your hardest to pot that one of the pocket but missed it through hitting it too soft and too wide of the angle. It may have been your best effort but you’d lose the frame over it
@@UltimatePool just to confirm, you're saying if I have one ball on the table, I cannot play a combination right? Also what happens if I play my ball into the pocket, white runs around the table, and pots the blackball in the same turn?
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 say you were yellows and you’re at the table and on the table is one red and one yellow you can’t play your yellow onto the black to pot it (but why would you want to?) you can’t play the black ball onto your remaining yellow to pot the yellow. You can only play the black ball when you’ve potted all your colours. You could pot the black ball in off your opponents red legally. If you cannoned into the black after potting your last yellow and potted the black, it’d be a foul, and you’d have lost the frame. That being said, I’ve played some dreadful shots in my time but I’ve never managed to pot the black ball off my last colour 😂
@@mmmcfc9332 thanks buddy! A really good explanation! 😎 I normally play blackball rules, thus we're not used to these rules. Potting black with your last object ball, is perfectly legal in blackball rules, thus the confusion. Dropping black along with my object ball, I've managed to do in various different ways on numerous occasions 😂 intentional & unintentional.
Not a problem, as long as the 8 Ball goes in the designated pocket. One rail, 8 rails, no rails...kisses are legal after a fair hit, and do no nee to be CALLED. If after making a fair hit on your object or the 8 Ball, it goes in the designated pocket? All good, as long as you don't also scratch.
Hi Simon, do you know the answer to this....A situation came up. Player 1 fouled, player 2 gets ball in hand. Player 2 plays the white from where it is instead of picking it up (no referee present). Some said this was a foul and loss of player 2's turn. Question is, is it compulsory to lift the cue ball if one has been awarded ball in hand or can you play the cue ball from where it's stopped after the foul. Can't find the answer in the rules.
I would assume so as I've watched a fair amount of games with referee present. As soon as it is a foul, the referee picks up the white ball and hands it to the player or on the rail behind baulk. The player isn't questioned if they want the white in hand
@@stevejones3180 it will be a foul to my knowledge. We've only moved to these rules this year, so literally 1 week in. However, amongst discussions with our league managers, it is considered a foul. The player must pick up the ball. If he/ she decides to re-spot it where it was, it's fine, but must be picked up. Maybe it can be clarified by others as well
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 a colleague was at the UP this weekend, he spoke to the UP IR Senior Ref who has said it's not a foul, the incoming player can choose to play the cue ball from where it lays. So I wonder who is correct!?
What happens if you play to hit your ball, miss and hit your opponent's ball or worse still pot your opponent's ball accidentally without hitting your ball first?
That's a foul. But so long as you _attempted_ to play your own ball, it's just a foul. And whether or not the opponent's ball goes in is irrelevant because potting an opponent's ball is not a foul - it's the fact that you made contact with their ball first that matters here. And if you did _that_ deliberately, then it's loss of frame.
@@RupeWard without a referee, how does the opponent prove its a loss of frame? Say I was snookered, but I clearly show that I'm aiming straight into my opponents ball, instead of trying to avoid it, how can the opponent confirm its a loss of frame? I can say I wanted to spin the ball around, or say it was a miscue. Then what happens? Also, what if it's not clear if I'm aiming at my ball or my opponents ball?
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 That's exactly what I was saying in other comments. It's a subjective thing that could lead to disagreements especially when playing without a neutral referee.
Can you please just clarify the ball in hand issue, after you broke and potted the white, you stated that would be ball in hand anywhere behind the baulk line but with other fouls it was ball in hand anywhere on the table. Is it only pocketing the white from the break that restricts the ball in hand position?
What happens if, after the break I nominate reds but accidentally hit the yellow first? Since it is still an open table, is it a foul or simply a turnover? Does anybody know? Thanks in advance to anybody who does
No. In these rules it makes no difference whether you're snookered after a foul (because you have ball in hand anyway), and it makes no difference whether you're totally snookered (because you have to hit a cushion anyway). Maybe you're thinking of World Rules?
@@richardclarke9966 having played the rules a LOT more now I actually like it too and I'm pretty close to preferring the rules over Blackball which I never thought I'd say!
I really hate that British Pool is trying to copy American Pool. It takes away from what makes it unique and just becomes U.S. pool on baby tables. What's wrong with Blackball rules, they're way more interesting in my opinion.
I was thinking of subscribing but after seeing that some games were on BT sports and paying subscription members to UP couldn’t watch it I’ve decided not to. Poor effort from UP there and it’s put a bad feeling in my mind especially considering how excellent the coverage had been up until then.
Worth noting that the Pro Cup was a BT Sports show, meaning they funded the broadcast, and completely seperate from the coverage on the app. And understandable that they wanted it soley on their channels. If it wasnt on BT Sports then it would not have happened at all.
@@UltimatePool Maybe it would have been a good idea to use that wording on your website? I’m a subscriber and was disappointed that I couldn’t watch it. If BT Sport were happy with the viewing figures will there be other events that are solely broadcast there? I’m not really interested in subscribing if I don’t have access to all events.
I love World Rules and will miss them. I love the intricacy of the tactics in WR. But I can see an argument that the relative complexity and long learning curve might be a bit of hurdle for some people when starting out. And that the simplicity of these rules will make the game more attractive to non-players which is good for TV audiences. For me, that's one of the things that helped snooker take off - the fact that the tactics are so simple. My gran for example used to watch snooker religiously (the only sport she ever watched). I think she'd have found WR quite hard to follow.
@@robertramsdale3945 Not all players feel the way you and I do about WR. And while you're right that the governing body have a duty to existing players, they've also got to look ahead. In our county we've noticed that it's got harder over the last 20 years to get young kids into the game. I'm not saying that's directly down to the rules, it's probably more to do with other changes in society and technology and so on, but I think it's fair to suggest that it would be helped by more exposure on telly and streaming and that. Having said all that, I repeat: I'll miss WR too.
An error in your video I think? A point is awarded if a ball travels past the middle. Even if it returns below the middle it is counted as a point. It does not have to rest above the middle line. A red traveled past the centre line and back down. Your first break was legal.
You guys need to properly publish the rules and not resort to a fukking UA-cam video... The only other official source is registering into your Google Drive and I'm never going to do that unless I also put the rules up on Pirate Bay. This is not how you promote the sport.
cba with this crap, pub rules are all good if you are just playing for fun, some guy taking 3 shots while potting my balls screaming new rules is just boring and not worth the money. Will be coming back for the vids so I know if people are just making stuff up as they go along. But really don't get why we need all these new rules.
Im confused as to why youre adding so many arbitrary rules to begin with. Ive been shooting pool for nearly 30 years and the only rules ive ever heard are: scratches and call your shot on black. It feels like youre kinda ruining the game
AWFUL COMPLICATED RULES - especially contact with the cushion at all times with the cue ball if you fail to pot....even when snookered.....dislike potting opponents' ball covering the pocket....all together HORRIBLE!
i like potting opponents ball rule, some noob players like to park their balls on the pockets and hits every ball soft as possible. Then they only attack when its super easy.
Like these rules. Just need to convert the lads n lasses in the local clubs and leagues into playing them.
Just a question do you have to have ball in hand after a foul or can you play it from where it is?
If you have Ball in Hand, you have the option to put it anywhere, including right where it is.
@@sloan4778 yes but does the ref have to pick it up or can you leave it where it is as I have been called foul on leaving it where it is and playing it from that position.
Should one play towards cushion when remaining with black ball (i.e when black ball and cue ball are touching) or just play since it's the only object ball remaining?
You can't play into a touching ball, simple as that really :)
@@zoelafa4813 if it is a touching ball even if it’s the black and that’s the only ball left on the table you must play away and hit any cushion otherwise it is deemed a standard foul and incoming player has ball in hand
Remember guys, despite this company calling these rules "international", nobody actually uses them. Most competitive sport uses official WPA 8-ball rules. They are pretty similar except that WPA rules do not allow flukes but allow solid-to-stripe combo shots for potting balls when colors haven't been nominated yet. Intentional fouls are also just regular ball-in-hand fouls, which makes total sense as nobody should have to argue about what was intentional or unintentional foul.
Blackball???
There are people that do play these rules just quietly, there's quite a few different cue sports
Haha this comment did not age well at all
I don’t think any sport should disallow flukes, they’re part of sport, and if you did then you’d have players making difficult pots which may look like a fluke but aren’t. What goes around comes around with flukes. The idea in the UK of hitting a red onto a yellow for your first pot seems alien, you wouldn’t be allowed to play that shot any other time during the frame. As for intentional fouls, there’s very little need to argue about whether it was intentional or not as it’d be obvious to the referee and the punishment/consequence is accepted. It’s there most likely to allow players to pot balls over pockets to allow the frame to be played at a decent pace and not become a stalemate.
I've been practising these a bit and like the rules overall, but think they've missed a trick in a couple of places.
One is that Open Table isn't really open, which I've covered in another comment (replaying to Julien Ghaddar), below.
The other is I don't understand why not playing your own ball first needs to be loss of frame. It takes us back to the situation where people have to make a subjective decision as to whether or not someone tried hard enough to get out of a snooker. And now that people are going to be playing these rules more and more without referees, or with referees that are teammates of one of the players, that's going to lead to problems.
It's worth pointing out that in American (WPA) rules, which in most respects IR are the same as, it's not loss of frame.
These 2 things introduce unnecessary complication and subjectivity into what are otherwise beautifully simple rules.
They're both things where having a neutral/professional ref makes them less of a problem (although for me even then the fact that the rules are subjective and complicated is still a problem). Feels like it's maybe a consequence of the rules having been developed and honed at the top level - if they're to become standard rules then one needs to consider the choppers too :)
Yeah leaving it open to assumption is no good it doesn't make it a rule and could potentially end up in punch up's outside of tournaments like playing in a bar just like the old days when every bar had different interpretations of rules
Referees decision is final in all games at all levels so the problem you describe will only occur in non league, non tournament play.
From our Local League
"It should be clearly understood that the referee is the sole judge of what is fair and unfair play"
Most tournaments don't use referees _at all_ . And most leagues don't have _neutral_ referees.
And when arguments happen and there is not a neutral referee, "referees decision is final" doesn't help a lot.
It's not like we haven't been here before. I'm not imagining brand new problems; I'm saying that the problems that used to happen will start happening again.
There is no argument as already indicated. The refs decision is final, even when that ref comes from the opposing team in the local league.
Those who argue with a ref or another player are in breach of rule 1 and 6f ( 2) and the penalty for that is loss of frame.
If a player can not make a legal shot then it is a stalemate situation and a re rack (rule 6g)
Players should know the rules.
@@MiyagiCoarseFishing I can only assume you've never played in a local pool league 🤣
With the points on the break, if a ball passes the centre line and goes in a pocket does it gain a point when it passes the centre line and then gain a point if it pots? so 2 points? or just the 1?
You can only get a maximum of one point for any given object ball (so you only count it for going in the pocket, not one point for crossing the line and then another point for being potted).
I tried international rules for the first time. I don't understand how you can deliberately miss a ball then the opponent is then snookered.
This happened lots off times, i always presumed international rules was an attacking form off pool rather than league rules.
You can still miss a shot in league rules, and snooker your opponent legally, in exactly the same way as you would in international rules?
Unless you're talking about the loss of turn shot, then I'm not sure what happens there.
Question on your open table combo example. If you do it just like your example and pot a stripe after hitting solid first, it turns over, but even though you did not make the solid, are you now solids or is it still open?
@@lawrencebrumwell it is still open if nobody has potted a ball after the break as it is classed as a loss of turn
I thought that the point system on the break counted balls which crossed the middle line even if they returned to the other end of the table. From your example, does this mean that only balls that come to rest in the other side of the table are counted (plus potted balls)?
If they cross the line and go back then they count as having crossed the line. It's not about where they end up.
Watch the first example break in the video again. Simon says that two balls went past the middle line, but only one of them has ended up at that end of the table.
The only rule I really don't agree with is having to hit a cushion after contact even when snookered. Other than that these rules have kinda grown on me.
It wouldn't be fair to the player that made the snooker. Without this rule snookering someone wouldn't be so attractive because in certain situations it's an easy way out
@Gregor Pesek I think that most people think that making snookering less attractive is a _good_ thing.
Having said that, removing the total snooker rule does make things a lot simpler and there's a lot to be said for that.
The shot at 6:45ish ... playing your ball onto the opponents ball to pot it ....Leaving them snookered on their balls after this play is a legal shot. Possession is turned over and the opponent has to play from the snookered position with all normal rules applying thereafter. This is a very strong play in these rules.
this is OP
It is but you don’t often see it practiced by the professionals. They would prefer to clear up rather than play snookers if they don’t need to. What it does do is stop your local average player in the club leaving colours over pockets for long spells.
If you pot the 8 off the break, do you win or does it get respotted?
You win the frame! It's called a golden break!
@@UltimatePool Thank you. I knew that was the case recently but I thought it was changed again.
@@liamnotlast4571 it depends on what you’re area are playing , we have disregarded this rule as it’s unfair on players that only play 3 games on a pool night.
After a breakshot, there is no any ball pocketed, then my opponent turn, he make a shoot but the cue ball and his object ball are pocketed at the same time. Do I still have chance to choose which color to shoot ?
Yes, because his shot was a foul.
Today I saw a game being played under international rules where the yellow player knocked in the 8-ball legally, but then also knocked in the remaining red ball on the table in the same shot as an accidental canon from the cueball. The cueball still ended up on the table. My understanding is that this is still a legal shot on the 8ball and the yellow player wins?
Correct
If the only ball of the break potted is the eightball, it goes back on the spot, and then does your opponent come to the table, unless you pot a ball aswell as 8ball.
Unless "Golden Break" Rule has been applied as in some tournaments.
The golden break is a different rule. And doesn’t apply to the question. In this case, if only the eight ball was potted, it’d get respotted and there’d be a change of turn. If a colour was potted too, the eight ball gets respotted and the player continues his turn.
@@fhdhejdnd866 If the eight-ball is the 'only ball potted on a legal break' then control of the table goes to the incoming player. If it's potted with other groups and the criteria
If it's potted with other groups and the criteria of a legal break has been fulfilled, the breaker continues.
You made more confusions than clarifications; comment section is full of questions that need another video; with all possible cases.
3:14 does this also include if the that yellow ball was also red (i.e you need to pot the ball you played)
Ans the black ball ?
Is it possible to pot it with an opponent ball ?
Possible to pot it with my last colour ball ?
@@555cinqcinq you cannot pot the black with the same shot as playing your last ball that is loss of frame. But if you are on the black and you do a combination shot and pot the opponents ball including the black it is a legal shot and you win the frame
What happens if when deciding colour you pot both balls??
As long as you play your selected colourset, then it's a legal shot.
If, after a break, you pot a ball, you nominate reds and on your next shot, you pot it AND a yellow.
Do you carry on with reds, is that some sort of loss of turn?
if you nominate reds, hit a red first and pot both colour sets, you will be reds. as this would be considered a 'skill shot'.
Do they use 6ft or 7ft tables in the pro tournament?
i dont think anyone plays on 6 ft tables ,theyre for kids !
@@martinparker9249 we play on a 6ft table as we can only fit a 6ft table in the space our pub has. It is still a legal table
are you allowed to do jump shots ?
No
I also read that the cue ball is not allowed to leave the playing surface. I’m assuming this means if I break the balls and the cue ball jumps up, it’s ball in hand for my opponent? Jump shots are not allowed either, correct?
That's a silly rule... the cue ball leaves the playing surface every time you use follow or draw with any force... it can easily jump a penny or a dime without trying to "jump" a ball. It left the playing surface whether you notice it or not.
@@dryclimateutah That's what I was getting at 😉 I think the rule is meant to disallow jump shots only, but it reads like "the ball shall not be allowed to leave the playing surface..."
on the break, if 3 points are not made and the cue ball is in off or off the table.
Is this a re-rack due to the 3 point rule not being met?
@@DIYChannelSteve yes it’s classed as a re rack as 3 points have not been made even though the cue ball has been potted off the break.
What Is the difference between loss of turn and a standard foul?
I'm still new to the differences between American/British/Chinese and International rules but in my understanding, a lose of turn means just that, that it's now the opponent's turn. A foul, on other hand will give the opponent the chance to place the cue ball anywhere (re: ball-in-hand).
After a break you said you must pot a ball before it Confirms your colour. If after nominating you fail to pot it does your opponent have a free table?
Yes
If you can't make a legal shot, for example black over the hole but opponent's ball blocking completely, and it's your visit and physically can't hit it, is it a re-rack?
Yes, but it's up to the player to declare a 'stalemate' (and the opponent, if no referee, agreeing), with the original player who broke breaking once again.
This might have been mentioned somewhere else and I've missed it, but the cushion rule... is it only an object ball hitting the cushion after initial contact that makes it a legal shot? I mean if after hitting my "red" for example the red doesn't hit the cushion but the cue ball does... is that still a legal shot?
It's a ball, so either white, object ball or another ball on the table needs to make contact with a cushion. Unless you pot.
@@8240lee Thanks for clearing that up for me. Appreciated
Please elaborate on deliberate fouls & would that be a loss of frame?
Yes loss of frame. Referee has to make the call if the believe it wasn't a genuine attempt at escaping a snooker etc
It's practically identical to the Debliberate Foul rule in Old EPA rules and that used in Blackball rules (I haven't actually checked the wording to see if it's the same, word for word but I don't believe that they are any different). As long as you are always attempting to hit ball(s) of your own group, then you will never have a Deliberate Foul situation.
@@MatthewJepson1 if no referee, how can this be confirmed?
If you make a pocket, does that count as hitting a cushion?
If you mean does hitting the jaws of the pocket with the object ball count as a cushion then yes.
@@DanceySteveYNWA Just for clarity, if it goes straight in the pocket you still have to touch a cushion?
@@plaguedoct0r if you pot a ball the cushion rule is irrelevant
@@DanceySteveYNWA Thx
@@plaguedoct0r no worries Mr Doctor . Big fan of your herb filled mask BTW. You was rocking masks before it was cool....
With the cushion rule, what happens if you hit the cushion with the cue ball, then the target ball, but the target ball hits another ball that hits the cushion, is that a foul?
Any ball must hit cushion after contact so no foul
Is this a 7ft table?
Has the 3 point rule changed to 4 point rule on break?
I thought it was a 2 ball rule.
Every video is different.
Madness
So open table following break, play red onto yellow to pot yellow is loss of turn. Does opponent then have choice or are they yellows as I played red first?
The table would remain open in that example, so the opponent can go for the colour he wants.
Yeah as said above. But you’d have very little reason to play that shot, even if after a dry break from your opponent, you’d almost always have a shot on, even if a difficult one, if you didn’t have an easy pot on you’d almost be forced into attempting a double or a swerve or a plant as there’d be very little safe places to leave the cue ball.
What happens if you make the 8 on the break? When your opponent scratches on the break, can you shoot at balls in the kitchen or does the cue ball have to leave the kitchen (baulk area) before contacting a ball?
Also, since you don't have to call the 8-ball, can you make your last ball and the 8-ball on the same shot?
You need to shoot from the kitchen, across the Baulk Line. Once that has been done, it may come back across that line and make a ball from the kitchen.
@@sloan4778 That's not consistent with what I've heard somewhere else... That is consistent with BCA and APA rules.
Do you need to nominate pocket when potting black?
No
What size is the table ?
It looks like a “home-eight”… but it’s hard to tell haha. The pockets look really big to me too. Like at least 5”.
At 3:35 if you play red first when potting yellow you say it’s loss of turn, does opponent still have choice? Cheers
Yes, the table is still open.
I don't like this rule. It sounds stupid to me. I must nominate, get punished if I don't comply, however, the table is still open? It just doesn't fulfill common sense to me.
What size tables do the pros play on?
Supreme table, 7ft x 4ft
You’re not making a ball, you’re potting it. Why change from the rules I’ve played for the las 50 years.
There should be two shots, not two visits and a D. No ball in hand and no potting an opponent’s ball which would be a foul.
These rules are for the owners of tables to get more money. Was the same in the early 80s when the brought in two visits.
I see people saying that DF is loss of frame. But as I understand it, not all kinds of deliberate foul are loss of frame. For example you can play a shot where you deliberately fail to hit a cushion, and that's just a foul. Is that right, Simon?
If it’s not loss of frame, it is completely pointless regardless. Pretty sure a ref would call it loss of frame on a sufficient effort basis
@@natwestrowleymile What do you mean by "sufficient effort basis"? I don't see any mention of that in the Loss of Frame Fouls section of the rules?
@@RupeWard you’ve made up a scenario tbf as there simply can’t be any advantage to playing a ball and deliberately not hitting a cushion.
@@RupeWard ua-cam.com/users/shortsjgbJGuVr8GY?feature=share
This video is a scenario where they’d have been deemed to make sufficient effort
@@RupeWard I know you’re talking about a specific scenario and in fairness the rules don’t cover that but a ref would use discretion.
Like you may have tried your hardest to pot that one of the pocket but missed it through hitting it too soft and too wide of the angle. It may have been your best effort but you’d lose the frame over it
After my opponent plays out of turn, can i pick up the cue ball & place it anywhere on the table?
No you play it from where the cue ball lies
What about a jump shot. Is a jump shot legal?
A legal jump shot must be hit above the center line of the cue ball, no SCOOP jumps allowed.
Are flukes allowed?
for tournament play, is the white ball a 2" or a 1 7/8″ size?
The cue ball is 1 7/8"
You never mentioned that your not allowed to DF and that it's loss of frame.
Maybe because that's the same in every rule set?
@@JB-eu1kd DF is allowed in world rules
I was going to ask this question...
@@JB-eu1kd are you new to pool?
What is DF?
Simon can you play a combination shot when down on blackball.eg black onto yellow or yellow onto black cheers
You can not play your last ball and the 8 ball. But you can play the 8 ball and one of your opponents balls.
Grt vid mate 👍
@@UltimatePool just to confirm, you're saying if I have one ball on the table, I cannot play a combination right?
Also what happens if I play my ball into the pocket, white runs around the table, and pots the blackball in the same turn?
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 say you were yellows and you’re at the table and on the table is one red and one yellow you can’t play your yellow onto the black to pot it (but why would you want to?) you can’t play the black ball onto your remaining yellow to pot the yellow. You can only play the black ball when you’ve potted all your colours. You could pot the black ball in off your opponents red legally. If you cannoned into the black after potting your last yellow and potted the black, it’d be a foul, and you’d have lost the frame. That being said, I’ve played some dreadful shots in my time but I’ve never managed to pot the black ball off my last colour 😂
@@mmmcfc9332 thanks buddy! A really good explanation! 😎
I normally play blackball rules, thus we're not used to these rules.
Potting black with your last object ball, is perfectly legal in blackball rules, thus the confusion.
Dropping black along with my object ball, I've managed to do in various different ways on numerous occasions 😂 intentional & unintentional.
What happens if a glance other opponent ball while potting the black
Not a problem, as long as the 8 Ball goes in the designated pocket. One rail, 8 rails, no rails...kisses are legal after a fair hit, and do no nee to be CALLED. If after making a fair hit on your object or the 8 Ball, it goes in the designated pocket? All good, as long as you don't also scratch.
Hi Simon, do you know the answer to this....A situation came up. Player 1 fouled, player 2 gets ball in hand. Player 2 plays the white from where it is instead of picking it up (no referee present). Some said this was a foul and loss of player 2's turn. Question is, is it compulsory to lift the cue ball if one has been awarded ball in hand or can you play the cue ball from where it's stopped after the foul. Can't find the answer in the rules.
I would assume so as I've watched a fair amount of games with referee present. As soon as it is a foul, the referee picks up the white ball and hands it to the player or on the rail behind baulk. The player isn't questioned if they want the white in hand
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 but with no referee, if the incoming player doesn't pick the ball up, is that a foul or can he play it from where it lays?
@@stevejones3180 If the ref does pick the cue ball up the player can just put it back where it was (I think).
@@stevejones3180 it will be a foul to my knowledge. We've only moved to these rules this year, so literally 1 week in. However, amongst discussions with our league managers, it is considered a foul. The player must pick up the ball. If he/ she decides to re-spot it where it was, it's fine, but must be picked up. Maybe it can be clarified by others as well
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 a colleague was at the UP this weekend, he spoke to the UP IR Senior Ref who has said it's not a foul, the incoming player can choose to play the cue ball from where it lays. So I wonder who is correct!?
What happens if you play to hit your ball, miss and hit your opponent's ball or worse still pot your opponent's ball accidentally without hitting your ball first?
That's a foul. But so long as you _attempted_ to play your own ball, it's just a foul.
And whether or not the opponent's ball goes in is irrelevant because potting an opponent's ball is not a foul - it's the fact that you made contact with their ball first that matters here. And if you did _that_ deliberately, then it's loss of frame.
@@RupeWard without a referee, how does the opponent prove its a loss of frame? Say I was snookered, but I clearly show that I'm aiming straight into my opponents ball, instead of trying to avoid it, how can the opponent confirm its a loss of frame? I can say I wanted to spin the ball around, or say it was a miscue. Then what happens?
Also, what if it's not clear if I'm aiming at my ball or my opponents ball?
@@thingsyoushouldknow6244 That's exactly what I was saying in other comments. It's a subjective thing that could lead to disagreements especially when playing without a neutral referee.
Can you please just clarify the ball in hand issue, after you broke and potted the white, you stated that would be ball in hand anywhere behind the baulk line but with other fouls it was ball in hand anywhere on the table.
Is it only pocketing the white from the break that restricts the ball in hand position?
Golden break is frame won yeh?
That is a tournament rule. So only used in specific events and not part of International 8 Ball Rules
Black must be spotted 😢
Does 3 consecutive fouls exist in 8 balls?
No that would be too easy if the other player only has 8-ball and you have all 7 of them
What happens if, after the break I nominate reds but accidentally hit the yellow first? Since it is still an open table, is it a foul or simply a turnover? Does anybody know? Thanks in advance to anybody who does
Loss of turn and table remains 'open'
Is it 2 shot carry?
No, penalty for standard foul is just ball in hand anywhere on the table. No 2 shots, no free shot, no free ball.
No two shot ever 😢
Can you intentionally foul?
Isn't there some rule about being angled?
No. In these rules it makes no difference whether you're snookered after a foul (because you have ball in hand anyway), and it makes no difference whether you're totally snookered (because you have to hit a cushion anyway).
Maybe you're thinking of World Rules?
What happens if you hit your ball and pot( not make) your opponents ball and you leave your opponent snookered?
It simply becomes their turn and they are both snookered and have to hit a cushion after contact with their ball.
I've not really played the new rules yet.But they look OK.They aren't perfect,but miles better than World rules
@@pumpeyethetraderman8083 I like this rul, myself - makes an otherwise very attacking ruleset have something tactically clever about it
@@richardclarke9966 having played the rules a LOT more now I actually like it too and I'm pretty close to preferring the rules over Blackball which I never thought I'd say!
@@pumpeyethetraderman8083 Same - took a while to grow on me but is much more fun
I really hate that British Pool is trying to copy American Pool. It takes away from what makes it unique and just becomes U.S. pool on baby tables. What's wrong with Blackball rules, they're way more interesting in my opinion.
So what happens if your opponent does a deliberate foul...
Loss of frame if they hit your ball first
Ball in hand
I was thinking of subscribing but after seeing that some games were on BT sports and paying subscription members to UP couldn’t watch it I’ve decided not to. Poor effort from UP there and it’s put a bad feeling in my mind especially considering how excellent the coverage had been up until then.
Worth noting that the Pro Cup was a BT Sports show, meaning they funded the broadcast, and completely seperate from the coverage on the app. And understandable that they wanted it soley on their channels. If it wasnt on BT Sports then it would not have happened at all.
@@UltimatePool Maybe it would have been a good idea to use that wording on your website? I’m a subscriber and was disappointed that I couldn’t watch it. If BT Sport were happy with the viewing figures will there be other events that are solely broadcast there?
I’m not really interested in subscribing if I don’t have access to all events.
World rules was fine .
People will be driven from the game instead of using strategy this game is just for Potters
I love World Rules and will miss them. I love the intricacy of the tactics in WR.
But I can see an argument that the relative complexity and long learning curve might be a bit of hurdle for some people when starting out.
And that the simplicity of these rules will make the game more attractive to non-players which is good for TV audiences.
For me, that's one of the things that helped snooker take off - the fact that the tactics are so simple. My gran for example used to watch snooker religiously (the only sport she ever watched). I think she'd have found WR quite hard to follow.
Who cares who watching the game .
Make rules for the players.
@@robertramsdale3945 Not all players feel the way you and I do about WR. And while you're right that the governing body have a duty to existing players, they've also got to look ahead. In our county we've noticed that it's got harder over the last 20 years to get young kids into the game. I'm not saying that's directly down to the rules, it's probably more to do with other changes in society and technology and so on, but I think it's fair to suggest that it would be helped by more exposure on telly and streaming and that.
Having said all that, I repeat: I'll miss WR too.
World rules are awful.
a lot of these are just copying rules in American 8-ball
An error in your video I think? A point is awarded if a ball travels past the middle. Even if it returns below the middle it is counted as a point. It does not have to rest above the middle line. A red traveled past the centre line and back down. Your first break was legal.
Only 2 reds passed the middle, you need 3 points.
You guys need to properly publish the rules and not resort to a fukking UA-cam video... The only other official source is registering into your Google Drive and I'm never going to do that unless I also put the rules up on Pirate Bay. This is not how you promote the sport.
dont like the americanisation tbh
cba with this crap, pub rules are all good if you are just playing for fun, some guy taking 3 shots while potting my balls screaming new rules is just boring and not worth the money.
Will be coming back for the vids so I know if people are just making stuff up as they go along. But really don't get why we need all these new rules.
Im confused as to why youre adding so many arbitrary rules to begin with. Ive been shooting pool for nearly 30 years and the only rules ive ever heard are: scratches and call your shot on black. It feels like youre kinda ruining the game
AWFUL COMPLICATED RULES - especially contact with the cushion at all times with the cue ball if you fail to pot....even when snookered.....dislike potting opponents' ball covering the pocket....all together HORRIBLE!
It's been like that for ages.It stops people from rolling up behind a ball
@@jammy2858 In these rules you have to hit a cushion even if escaping a snooker. That's not been around for ages.
@Rupert Ward Yea sorry I misread it.I just thought he meant cushion after contact on a normal shot.These rules are miles better than World rules
i like potting opponents ball rule, some noob players like to park their balls on the pockets and hits every ball soft as possible. Then they only attack when its super easy.