Response To CLASSICAL LATIN & ANCIENT GREEK by ILoveLanguages!
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2023
- The video I'm responding to
• CLASSICAL LATIN & ANCI...
The video where I defend every pronunciation choice I make in my rendition
• Lōrīca segmentāta legi...
Classical Latin is the form of Literary Latin recognized as a literary standard by writers of the late Roman Republic and early Roman Empire. It was used from 75 BC to the 3rd century AD, when it developed into Late Latin. In some later periods, it was regarded as good or proper Latin, with following versions viewed as debased, degenerate, or corrupted. The word Latin is now understood by default to mean "Classical Latin"; for example, modern Latin textbooks almost exclusively teach Classical Latin.
Cicero and his contemporaries of the late republic referred to the Latin language, in contrast to other languages such as Greek, as lingua latina or sermo latinus. They distinguished the common vernacular, however, as Vulgar Latin (sermo vulgaris and sermo vulgi), in contrast to the higher register that they called latinitas, sometimes translated as "Latinity".[note 1] Latinitas was also called sermo familiaris ("speech of the good families"), sermo urbanus ("speech of the city"), and in rare cases sermo nobilis ("noble speech"). Besides the noun Latinitas, it was referred to with the adverb latine ("in (good) Latin", literally "Latinly") or its comparative latinius ("in better Latin", literally "more Latinly").
Latinitas was spoken and written. It was the language taught in schools. Prescriptive rules therefore applied to it, and when special subjects like poetry or rhetoric were taken into consideration, additional rules applied. Since spoken Latinitas has become extinct (in favor of subsequent registers), the rules of politus (polished) texts may give the appearance of an artificial language. However, Latinitas was a form of sermo (spoken language), and as such, retains spontaneity. No texts by Classical Latin authors are noted for the type of rigidity evidenced by stylized art, with the exception of repetitious abbreviations and stock phrases found on inscriptions.
Philological constructs
Classical
"Good Latin" in philology is known as "classical" Latin literature. The term refers to the canonical relevance of literary works written in Latin in the late Roman Republic, and early to middle Roman Empire. "[T]hat is to say, that of belonging to an exclusive group of authors (or works) that were considered to be emblematic of a certain genre."[1] The term classicus (masculine plural classici) was devised by the Romans to translate Greek ἐγκριθέντες (encrithentes), and "select" which refers to authors who wrote in a form of Greek that was considered model. Before then, the term classis, in addition to being a naval fleet, was a social class in one of the diachronic divisions of Roman society in accordance with property ownership under the Roman constitution.[2] The word is a transliteration of Greek κλῆσις (clēsis, or "calling") used to rank army draftees by property from first to fifth class.
Classicus refers to those in the primae classis ("first class"), such as the authors of polished works of Latinitas, or sermo urbanus. It contains nuances of the certified and the authentic, or testis classicus ("reliable witness"). It was under this construct that Marcus Cornelius Fronto (an African-Roman lawyer and language teacher) used scriptores classici ("first-class" or "reliable authors") in the second century AD. Their works were viewed as models of good Latin.[3] This is the first known reference (possibly innovated during this time) to Classical Latin applied by authors, evidenced in the authentic language of their works
#latin #italian #language
I'd like to comment how Ilovelanguages has done a great job at exposing rare LIVING languages and giving them the love they deserve. I have a bit of critique myself of their ancient language videos, but their contribution on living languages and dialects is to be respected.
Reading a prayer?
That channel is the reason I want to learn Suzhounese
Yeah; for example (though, not necessarily a *_”DEAD”_* language, per se, I would say; more like an ”evolved” language, if that makes sense), for Old English, they literally use a *_VERY THICK_* Swedish accent; and I seriously doubt that that’s historically accurate 😅.
I’m arabian and i hate their video about najdi arabic because we in najd don’t speak like what they say in the video
The person pronouncing the Classical Latin numbers from 1-10 is Luke Ranieri.
The person pronouncing the Ancient Greek numbers from 1-10 is Kimon Sikiaridis.
The video in question is just slowed down.
Yeah the Greek especially sounds crazy. So much reverb and pitched down . Iittss eeepiiicc 😂
Well Luke is a much better Latin speaker than me. It must be the slowing down of the clip that did it. Editing didn’t do it justice. With that being said, I have been critical of Luke’s extension of vowels in the past, I remember speaking about it with him, and it’s the only aspect of pronunciation I would object to when it comes to Latin and Luke. But then again, Luke is Number one when it comes to the actual knowledge of the language, not me. I do understand he does it for teaching purposes. As for the Italian sounding accent, if he did this a while ago, his Italian has improved monumentally in the last year and a half.
To me it sounded a bit like Luke but distorted audio. I've watched many of his videos and gotten used to his voice. I do think he sometimes emphasizes the vowel length but he almost always gets the vowel qualities spot on perfectly.
@@metatronacademy I did also notice his exaggerated length on the long vowels, I think that's a combination of emphasis (Luke will be the first to tell you he's constantly learning and improving) and just the fact no one has heard spoken classical Latin live so although we know about long and short vowels, we don't know exactly how long/short they actually were.
@@metatronacademyIt might be interesting to ask Luke if this was used with his permission/knowledge. The fact that they've slowed it down makes me wonder if whoever is running the ilovelanguages channel is just lifting audio for languages they don't speak from other videos and then editing it to disguise its origins.
As for vowel length, Luke is a native English speaker and phonemic vowel length is hard for native English speakers to gain a good command of. Especially in rhotic dialects there are no minimal pairs of vowels distinguished only by length, the "long/short" pairs used in education haven't had anywhere close to the same vowel quality in 500 years, and timing is heavily influenced by stress. Luke does a ton better than I do with short/long distinctions in Latin, and I expect that overenunciation of vowel length on his part is likely some combination of having to put effort into overriding English timing patterns in his own brain and the fact that his audience is largely English speaking and needs vowel length made very clear.
3:06 Also; in Ancient Greek, I’m noticing some anglophone influence, on some of the vowels (”dyuo”, ”enneya”), and they seem to treat the ^, in ”treîs”, like a tone mark 🤔. Otherwise; they seem to have nailed the ”retracted S” and the fully nasalized final ”M”; at least, in Latin.
A small correction: "est" losing its vowel after a vowel isn't just a casual contraction - we see it in inscriptions, it's a rule of all poetry, and generally these sorts of elisions are explicitly prescribed in formal speech. So it's safe to say that this is just how the language was pronounced.
Except it's not. Romanian and aromanian still retain the vowel in ALL positions. It has never dropped. So let's just ignore half of the Latin world because of some inscriptions in Pompeii and a few other writings.
@@empyrionin yes because we’re talking about Latin not modern Romance languages.
@@Astavyastataamodern Romance languages evolved from Latin. So it's safe to say that the full pronunciation of est was widespread in many parts of the empire, including in the lower ranks (soldiers, peasants). Otherwise it wouldn't have survived in a corner of the empire thought of as a frontier (limes).
Modern Romanian and Aromanian "est" is "este" or "e", or alternatives ("ieste", "iaste", "estu", "iaște" - likely due to the original Latin "s" sound). Never is/are the vowel(s) dropped.
In addition, if you're inclined to suggest some kind of weird godlike exception for the above, please remember Eastern Romance had other members as well such as Dalmatian. Everyone is ignoring half the empire and its linguistics.
You see in inscriptions coming from the lower class, less literate. The only thing you can assume is that they thought that was the way it was written, because of how the contraction sounds to the illiterate ears. You don't see that contraction among intellectuals.
@@empyrionin colonies often tend to be more conservative in language compared to homeland. The fact that it’s changed in Italian but not other branches lends some credence to this.
The Latin and Greek speakers honestly sound kinda evil. Like, no offense, but they would probably kill it in a role as like a demon overlord for a video game or something.
It’s pretty hilarious imagining a demon lord teaching classical lesbians or anyone classic languages.
For some reason my autocorrect turned languages into lesbians, so I’m keeping it.
@@ByTheStormI thought you had meant "the Classical definition of Lesbians", ie people from Lesbos, as if he were teaching them their ancient language
What is sometimes missing from ILoveLanguages is quality control. Even if it is native speakers who read the texts, I noticed that these texts were incorrectly pre-formulated, with idioms and words or grammar that are unusual in the respective dialect.
In the video of my dialect of Spanish they throw all the slang all the time and all together.
It's way too much, nobody speaks like that
@mechupaunhuevon7662 porteño
When the channel owner says the words of a language for their language videos, they usually say a lot of stuff incorrectly, like wrong stress accent and pronunciations
@@maxiaguirre¿Cuál es tu acento, panita?
@@Winter-Alpha-Omega rioplatense, pero en el vídeo lo titularon como "porteño" que es el gentilicio de Buenos Aires.
You are absolutely right about the phonemic vowel length thing; my native language (Tamil) has it too and yes, it's extremely subtle in the exact ways you demonstrated.
Thank you for your contribution
A look at the similarities between Latin and Sanskrit and Hindi would be fun
Hindi would be difficult because it’s in pure form it’s like Italian or Spanish with the word corruptions and borrowings from Muslim languages and English. I think it’d probably be more interesting to compare modern romance with modern indo-aryan.
maybe some Tocharian and Hittite too cos why not
@@Astavyastataa There's no such thing as a "Muslim" language, dude. Persian predates Islam by thousands of years, and Arabic is the language of the Arabs, not Muslims. Muslims don't own our language.
@@AKnightofIslamicArabia the peoples who brought them to India were Muslim so it’s a convenient short hand.
@@Astavyastataa I totally understand that, but you can see how it bugs Arabs to have our culture consistently associated with people that have no relation to us. Of course, it's not your fault, but it's a deeply unfortunate situation for us.
Dang I’ve been following that channel since it had 2000 subscribers! Can’t believe it’s now at 200k. But I appreciate their efforts when doing “comparing” videos
You are undoubtedly the guy with the best classical pronunciation I've seen on UA-cam.
I hope content creators to call you more often.
The only thing I’ll say about the shortening in the Latin is that in poetry, like the Aeneid and Metamorphoses it was used. I’m not sure whether it would be used for the Bible or not though. Great video!
I tend to just gloss over the little things like this in the voiceovers, even though I enjoy the channel and will continue to watch still, I will keep in mind details like this. Thanks to you for this very interesting video
Now multiply the problems of unnaturalness and exaggeration by 10 and you have how western and Northern Europeans pronounce Ancient Greek. 😅
I love this channel! But thank you for posting this!
As a speaker of three romance languages, it sounded germanic to me too. Metatron's pronounciation sounded way more natural to my romance ear
The ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation is most familiar to me, as I'd heard it weekly until just before the last Sunday of January 1964, and thence when my sagart (that's Irish for "priest") had read the Roman Canon aloud when I was an altar server before 1971.
Sir, have you ever watched "Il Primo Re"? It will be interesting to have your opinion about that. They speak a proto-Latin in that movie. Best Regard
The Person who did the Recording of the Latin was Luke of Polymathy.
You should watch linguriosa, it is in Spanish but the content is fantastic in my opinion.
I have found this with the channel as well. I have spent over a decade learning Old English and found it was saxonized. But I have learned ancient Greek and Latin since I was a kid. I was home schooled. I see the same thing. The Greko, Italiano accents are also not what I expect.
Awesome video! 😁
Thank you
Next time they should tell you to voice the Latin scripts
At least you know how to do it and your voice fits in so good
I agree that it soukds weird, cause I always think then if people talk with that really slowed pronunciation on the vowels, how could they ever explain something fast or talk fast in general
For a deeper look at the processes underlying these vowel distinctions, see American linguist David Stampe's theory of natural phonology.
i’ll just say this about your theory on the energy and language etc, i study physics and early on we talked about longitudinal waves which include for example sound, it takes near to no energy at all for us to talk in fact it would take 8 million people shouting at once at say around 90dB for it to require only 1 Watt of power (roughly what is required to light a lightbulb for a minute)
I liked that theory. It made me remember the idea that our brain is, in a way, lazy. Or to be more precise, absolutely efficient. If at some point it understands that some activity is not needed, we begin to not only stop doing it, but more important, forget it and save some "RAM"
Great video Metatron!
Amazing pronunciation. Only nitpick is you read um as uŋ when it was probably closer to ũ though both sounds are fairly represented in modern Latin languages, Caribbean Spanish and parts of southern spain using ŋ for final n and Portuguese using ũ for final m. Also the S as you mention in classical Latin may have been retracted or apical as in castillian,northern Portuguese, modern Greek (and most likely ancient Greek as well) but the way you do is a bit off..
Long and short vowels are the different between feet and fit, beet and bit, you get the idea.
Proto-Slavic on this channel is also incorrect. The speaker doesn't pronounce short vowels(ь, ъ) and pronounce soft consonants, while they appeared in Slavic languages in about 10th-11th century
Many people in the comments have pointed out that the Proto-Slavic speaker is polish and he pronounces it with a polish accent. As a Polish person I can't really tell, as he sounds normal to me but I can tell you that we Polish people have no idea what these funny ы ь letters are. When I try to read russian I just skip them 😂 I call them little irons as they look like old time iron without a handle. I asked many people how to read these and all they do is just leave me even more troubled.
I'm just a beginner at Koine and Ancient Greek, but it seems to me that the text is Koine, but the pronunciation is very accurate Attic Greek. Not sure if that is "correct" or "incorrect". Is there a correct way, when the language is dead? Is it any different than using Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation when reading Classical Greek literature? I don't know.
You should ask Luke (polymathy) to check the Ancient Greek part
Actually it is Luke who is reading the Latin part too.
@@veritasardens6547only the numbers
@@veritasardens6547 That's... not Luke's voice though
@@jeremias-serus Only the numbers.
I've noticed that laziness in speaking a lot with aspirated consonants in English, id est, I've heard call pronounced like cχall (greek letter chi)
「そうですね」の発音は人々のそれぞれの口癖によると思います。メタトロン学園の生徒になって、嬉しいです。
Weird that I've seen both channels and now they're overlapping.
Can you do a video on the pronunciations of Latin mythological things. In reading some of these authors from a century or two ago, they reference a lot of things that are either very obscure, or whose pronunciation I can't seem to find a consistent agreement among various experts (I try to go with university professors in the relevant field when looking for pronunciation help).
Even something that feels like it should be completely obvious and easy to agree upon, like "Saturnalia", it seemed like every expert in ancient Rome or religion or what not had a different pronunciation for the word. Eh? Demeter, Lares, Cybele, Lemures, there's a long list of lesser known names that as a native English speaker with zero training in Latin, I really don't quite know how to pronounce correctly. I can make some guesses based on other words with accepted pronunciations in English, but Anglicized pronunciations are typically not accurate to begin with, so don't make for a great starting point.
Greek mythology is even more plagued by hard-to-guess pronunciations, but if you don't feel like ancient Greek is your thing, just the Roman ones would be very helpful.
Yep, it's debated: regarding the Linguistic economy principle ('cause we're lazy, 'cause it's not 'efficient', and so on) - I think, it doesn't work.
Spanish 'hombre' is derived from the latin homo -> hominem (accusative) -> omne/uemne. Can't be so efficient and cut-and-reduce approach to get the long accusative form instead of the short nominative, and to change the final consonant 'm' with the 'mbr' cluster, though.
Also there's the video in this regard by Linguriosa (in Spanish, but it's understandable for the Italian speaker): ua-cam.com/video/9l-5L9yHKY0/v-deo.html
And there's a bunch of other examples, in all the languages, when we've got synonyms for almost every subject. We have genders/cases that rise and fall, the past pariciples that become the verbs and so on.
The thing with language evolution is that it is very closely bound to sociolinguistic tendencies and it is also very very slow.... because of that the synchronic and diachronic patterns can very well be at odds with one another and evolutions may be retracted and undercut by later changes.... This is not a single linguist creating a conlang , this is generations of people speaking a natural language....so the general tendency of getting more efficient is there and it is evident in the evolution of many languages....In corpus-textual linguistics the most common words are the shortest ones in every corpus, grammatization always comes with simplification in the phonetic level and so on and so forth BUT it is not the ONLY linguistic principle guiding changes.... in your example omne was deemed not euphonic enough and got corrected with the addition of b by some generation of speakers. Changes can be guided by the principle of simplification/ energy conservation but they can also be guided by analogy and systemitisation or phonotactics.
Remember mechanical ease is not the only motivation for phonological evolution. It works in a back-and-forth with clarity, and they pull in opposite directions.
Where did the bre come from? There's no bre ending in any latin case of that word.
@@kekeke8988 don't know, i'm not a Spaniard. But the same happens with 'fames' -> 'hambre', and 'nomen' -> 'nomine' -> 'nombre' in Spanish, and even 'numerus' -> 'number' in English via French Normann, etc. There'd be some kind of a rule/sequence for such an epenthesis, I suppose.
@@pn8937 yep, so?
Thats luke ranieri doing the numbers.
3:05 I can't believe he went out of his way to track someone down who is alive. That's mad dedication~ xD
4:43 I am glad you were out of the way when I read the Catilinarian speech in class... very marked rolled R, very marked W pronunciation AND I gave "il originale Cicerone" a very marked fake Italian accent too .... sorry .... but it was funny.
5:00 And on top of that, we were not obliged to nasalise the Ms, and I didn't ...
As a native English speaker, something that exists in Classical Latin but doesn't exist in English that I've never heard before listening to Classical Latin is brē brēs, bri, and brīs, as in brīs in the word tenebrīs! Can someone please explain to me what this is and did the Classical Latin authors, preferably grammarians such as Cicero, Quintilian, and Varro have a name or names for it?
As an Ancient Greek speaker I can confirm that the pitch accent sounds pretty alright to me, their voice is pretty gravely but it sounded like true pitch accent especially on the acute omega for number eight, where they could have raised the pitch on the wrong part of the vowel but had it correct.
What are your 2 cents on the very Anglophone-sounding ”duo” and ”ennea”? Is it just me; or is there some serious English influence, there? They just sound pretty jarring to me. 🤔
Modern greek has no pitch accent.
@@tvesarathavrtraghna3688 Yes (except for in certain short phrases, there is, apparently, a remnant pitch accent). But, both the video, and the OP’s comment, were about Ancient Greek; so, I don’t see, what Modern Greek has to do, with anything, here.
@@PC_Simo my bad. I read "an an greek speaker"
@@tvesarathavrtraghna3688 It’s OK. That explains it. Thanks for the clarification 🙂. I misread comments, all the time 😅.
It is interesting to think that these view counts tho tiny for UA-cam are still bigger then the number of students in some of the biggest colleges, you got a biiiiiig class to teach lol
Why didn't you put the greek text as well for hearing and comparing?
The Ancient Greek on that video wasn't even that bad; they had a video on Mycenean Greek and it was just a reading out of the SYLLABLES (M. Greek was written in a syllabic script) of words in a MODERN Greek pronunciation. Shoutout to that poor nationalist in the comments admiring how little the language changed, δεν έχει ιδέα!
The Indoeuropean video was really cool though.
This episode was like going to a Latin Mass.
When it comes to ellison, we know that ellison happened in verse. So why not in religious verse ?
As a native speaker of a language with distinctive vowel length - yes, those exaggerations were quite something.
But one interesting thing. I did study classical Latin, and the V sound was taught to be a V sound. Not a U sound or a W sound. But both the speaker and you seem to pronounce it as something more akin to U or W.
As I know it should be a w pronounced like in english. For example in water.
/w/ is the proper pronounciation for the era, ofc, as early Latins loan in Greek prove (ΟΥΕΤΡΑΝΟΣ for something it would be reenter Greek as Veteranos /Βετεράνος/, for veteran. Romanian also reserved to this day the ancient /w,u/ sound of v to many phonemic environments.v is a simplification we do in retrospect.
The vowel lengths are correct though.
4:31 I can tell you for a fact that there are Italian people who talk with that stereotypical accent. Gino D'Acampo (who's work I enjoy) speaks exactly like that. It's not a bad thing, though. I think it's cute.
Which of the romance language is closer to Latin I heard that sardinian is closer to Latin
1. Sardinian
2. Italian
3. Spanish
4. Romanian
5. Portuguese
6. French
If I ain’t wrong
The voices used on this video of theirs sounds like Mortal Kombat xD
Also; in the Gospel of John, the speaker clearly ignores the phonemic vowel length; which, just a minute ago, he was over-exaggerating; and, in fact, he seems to pronounce a lot of them supposed-to-be long vowels, even shorter, than the supposed-to-be short vowels; as if he literally heard your criticism, of his over-compensation of them; which is pretty ironic.
*EDIT:* Yes; in the last paragraph, he switched back to over-compensation of the phonemic vowel length; again, as if he read my comment about him ignoring it, completely.
😅
Nice
Interesting
The problem is that Anglos are the ones reading these stuff. They should have a romance language speaker doing it.
Huh, never knew 6 in latin was identical to the german way of saying 6.
And to the english way of saying sex
ok then. thank You so much.
Interesting that Japanese has both phonemic vowel length AND pitch accent, just like Ancient Greek.
I wish same vide was done in aim of responsing Ancient Greek as well, I genuinely feel they also did some mispronunciation as well.
Wait! We have long and short vowels in English. Compare vowel length before voiced and voiceless consonants, e.g., seat and seed, bat and bad. Technically not minimal pairs, but it is often vowel length that speakers listen for to distinguish words, and as you point out, it is subtle and it is difficult for learners of English to hear tha difference.
don't seat and seed both have long vowels? a better example would be seat vs sit no?
Also there's fundmanetal difference between long vowels in english and in latin and that is that in english long and short vowels are only distingushed in stressed syllables while in latin the distinction can happen in any syllable
@@GorgonathThe difference in what he’s saying isn’t related to vowel length in English (I.E. i = [ɪ], ī = [aɪ]), but instead how long the same vowel is held in standard speech. Seat and Seed both have the vowel [i], but are held for different amounts of time in each word (at least they appear so). Something like seed [siːd] vs seat [siʔ]. Seat and Sit have different vowels in them, plus those specific vowels aren’t even considered short and long counterparts in English.
@@d-man4485 Sorry, the negative response was in error. I meant to click on reply. Actually, the vowels in seat and sit are usually described as tense/lax, or as diphthong/simple vowel, but seat/seed, acoustically, are long/short.
@@Gorgonath The traditionally "long" and "short" vowels of English have each developed long and short varieties! "Seat" has a short "long" e sound, "seed" has a long one. "Bat" has a short "short" a sound, "bad" has a long one.
In English accents (from England), there is phonemic vowel length due to elision of r and the collapse of a vowel + a schwa: bid and beard have the exact same vowel in my pronunciation, it’s just that the vowel in beard is longer than bid, the vowel is identical. Mouth and math(s) also have the exact same vowel in my accent, it’s just that mouth is longer than math. Most English accents have a very similar thing going on (obv some of the pronunciation is dialect specific)
It sounds like a computer generated voice.
Thats the gma prayer voice
(04:25) Spaghetti latin?
Latina lingua Spaghetta est. Pardon: Spaghettast 😂
11:35 You are aware that Germanic languages have phonemic vowel length too?
In English it is often diphthongised (EE and OO excepted, along with AH as in father, and AW in brawl), but I think even casually, an English speaker would not reduce the vowel length as much as your example of (? sorry for spelling?) _soodes_ ... (sootesu?) as pronounced casually.
The tendency for maximal effect with minimal effort can take very different expressions in different languages.
For Latin, the vowel length was so much phonemic, that a ten vowel system was reduced to a seven vowel system (outside Sardinian).
On the one hand one can argue that short O would have been more open than long O, preceding the fact when half long open O stood for Classic short, half long closed O, for Latin either long, or a short U, and so on. But on the other hand, I feel that this cannot have come into place too early either, because it would otherwise have precipitated the mutation into the seven vowel system.
Other reason why the vowel qualities in the ten vowel system would not have matched very early those of the seven vowel system, in Welsh (perhaps Breton too) they do not.
In Welsh, Latin words have different vowels for Latin long and short A, for example, CIVITATEM gives _ciwdod._ Not finding one where Latin long A is in a syllable still accentuated in Welsh (exspected outcome AW, of which O is a shortening), but by contrast, a short A survives in BARBA giving _barf._ Wait, I do find Latin long A in a syllable still accented ... CASEVS becomes _caws._
I think if _caseus_ can become _caws_ this argues that vowel length was more marked in Latin than in Japanese.
Other indication of same thing. The remark that a syllable long _positione_ is actually shorter than one with a long vowel, which gives a syllable long _natura_ - and a third one ... _no_ similar remark that long vowels are somehow shorter than diphthongs.
Actually english and lots of indo-european languages are stress-timed. Which means the vowel lenght depends the stress.
While if the vowel lenght if phonemic/phonetic then it usually marked in writing and has nothing to do with the place of stress.
(Also the japanese word would be spelled "soudesu")
Can you say "pretty"@@tovarishcheleonora8542 ?
Short i sound, short t, stressed.
Next time make a response to cocomelon
Even English has vowel length, I think. Compare 'pot' and 'pour', where the second one is pronounced for a longer time (at least in British English).
I don't think it's a good comparison. These vowels are pronounced with different qualities by most, if not all, native speakers, which would be [ɒ] and [o̞] in SSE. At least that's how they sound to my foreign ears. Now, Vowel length may be a secondary feature in British varieties, but I don't know that there are words that are only distinguished by length. The situation may be different in places like RSA, Australia and NZ, but I'm less familiar with those varieties.
What is true in many varieties of English, is that vowels and diphthongs tend to be shortened (clipped) before a fortis coda and lengthened before a lenis coda, eg bit vs bid, mace vs maze, a life vs alive, etc. Based on that, vowel length does exist, but is allophonic rather than phonemic.
The same applies to Czech, Slovak and Hugarian. If you want to speak those languages more like a native, don't over stretch the long vowels.
And it's true for other uralic languages too, not only just hungarian.
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 Right, I forgot Finnish and Estonian also have long vowels.
@@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic8954 And some other uralics too. Like as mansi and some other. Or maybe all, i'm not sure on that.
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 I don't know much about other Uralic languages unfortunately
Minor correction: QUinque, not CInque (vocal typo at the end of the video) :)
" What any defferent until old latinica,classical latinica and vulgar latinica 🙄"
If native speakers are trying to conserve energy when speaking, then Italians must eat several hundred extra calories to cover the energy loss due to gesturing. 😅😅😅
In Romania, the inhabitants of Transylvania are considered very tight-lipped, like the Spartans.
Yeah, this is the first time I am hearing this....the Greek is a little off in my opinion. Not in a bad way, but in a "I'm doing it right and it's coming off as wrong" sort of way. If that makes sense. I'm trying to place which Greek pronunciation system they are trying to use because there's a few things happening here that shouldn't be happening at the same time. For example, the pronunciation doesn't match the stressing for the time period, or the stressing doesn't match the pronunciation for the time period that would have said it that way. I agree with Raff here, I think there's some serious compensation for speed and stress, but they are not being evenly applied in my opinion. I feel this person is trying to combine two systems, learned two or three systems, or was instructed to pronounce by different speakers of different systems. But it's a little hard to say this is "Classical Greek" pronunciation. If you told me they were showing a transitional phase, or cross dialectal examples, or something else I would feel like this is a better representation. But there's some mixing of things here that make it very difficult to say this would be a uniform representation of any specific Greek pronunciation at the same time.
No that's not what I'm saying at all. What the Greek speaker is doing, is they are applying a pronunciation system that wouldn't have been used naturally with this type of stress and pitching. Especially in time periods we traditionally classify as the "Classical Greek languages" say about 500-300 BCE. If I had to guess, I would say the speaker, assuming it's a human voice, is applying something similar to Lucian which is designed to imitate something from the Koine periods from 300 BCE and later...while trying to pitch it in a way that's more classical Attic in nature. Lucian is a wonderful thing for Koine Greek pronunciation, but it's not the ideal pronunciation for what we would call "Classical Greek." Now there's always some caveats here....depending on what, where, and who we are talking about...the replacement of Classical Greek with Koine is the death for pitches in Greek. So unless they were trying to portray some type of transition period/variation intentionally.....I wouldn't say this was a great representation of either Classic Greek or Koine.
@@unarealtaragionevole the Greek pronounciation is okay-ish it has some slips to modern Greek pronounciation and some obvious mistakes though.... 1 was most probably never ever /hejs/ but it was /he:s/ a very much natural evolution of /hens/ that is obscured by the Attic evolution ofthe actual /ej/ diphthong to /e:/ close to the adoption of the Ionic alphabet, by Athenians.
OMG
You mean he's putting on a stereotypical Italian accent
I think his pronunciation is in fact Latin American
I am not sure this is a human reader... There is something that makes me think more of a computer generated voice...But that could be from aggressive editing.
Wrong pronunciation of the Latin language:
Caesar, decem, centum are pronounced with a "ch" in the Latin language because if not then it would be in a modern Italian pronounced next words with a "k" (e.g. Cesare, Cicerone, dieci, cento, celo, etc.), and what about many Italian surnames that are also pronounced with a "ch" (e.g. Lancia, Marcello, Luciani, Manzini, Carlucci, Ceccarelli, Cellario, Cecili, Colucci, Gucci, etc.).
They reading Proto-Uralic was painful as the reader had no clue of long or short vowels and consonants.
You can send a recording of your proper pronunciation if you like. Andy always tells people to send recordings to him if the recordings already posted are not the best.
@@rvat2003 Are you offended? Hire a person who can distinguish between the sound lengths. They are in the very core of Uralic languages.
Hilarious voice actors
Ha ha ha, no Italian speaks like that..come to Florence Italy, and see for yourself..the locals can't conceive that a word finishes with a consonant..They put an e (pronounced a) at the end when they switch to English.
That was over exaggerated pronunciation for sure. From latin class and your examples certainly rolls off the tongue more naturally.
As a speaker of language that has different vowel length, i would say you are right, but also wrong, accents from different regions can have their own rules, for instance accent from some region it could much more pronounced then in other, they could speak slower/faster in general, and that has also influences pronunciation of vowels... etc
I am not sure in Italian, but you lived in England, like you have Geordy, Yorkshire, standard, that put emphasis on different parts of word, and when you are thinking about living language, you cant have one rule that rules all, that is artificial, so actually you are same as the same guy you are trying to correct by saying he has super mario accent, because you both tried to pick one rule of pronunciation like everyone spoke like that.
You are an English teacher, and you teach people to speak standard British English pronunciation, but how many people in Britain actually speak like that?
Those who do, are probably learned to speak like that for Television.
For me it's a machine a not a human who READ the text.... what a diference with your reading!!!!
I think his timing or rhythm is terrible, his pauses sound like this "i..
Ate an... apple this... morning at a coffee table". I guess he is more capable of reproducing pronunciation than understanding what he is reading.
Super polite beautiful video, I saw this video in its originality, it was made by lay people, from a linguistic technical point of view it cannot be compared outside of linguistics, classical Latin with ancient Greek, layman's video, compare classical Latin with classical Greek, Latin ancient with ancient Greek, otherwise you will make a mistake.
Languages evolve and their stages are never the same, do not compare the classical stage of one with the ancient stage of another different language. And anachronisms and injustice.
About long vowels in Latin and for formalities, short vowels in Latin and for common conversation and all colloquial situations.
And another contribution to the video is that Greek and Latin are not codes and original biblical texts are 3rd and 4th generation European texts that have corrupted and polluted the meaning of the writings to this day in many conflicting biblical versions today, they are not sacred languages in any way nor did they fall from heaven.
Its unnatural sounding because the speaker is an A.I. bot.
I think you've been a bit picky in this case, the Latin sounds pretty okay to me
he reads them correctly but pronounces the ancient Greek very wrong! if you don't pronounce them without the accent they sound really bad! Greek, like Spanish, is a very clean language, if you can't use your tongue with the rrr theta and sss and the vowels, the northern countries better not speak them! The sound like an Indian speaking Russian
1st comment ! 😊
You should check out Turkish and Azerbaijani
Apparently Azerbaijanis can understand turkish but Turks have more trouble understanding them
Texan greek, oh boy, lately you do a lot of jokes. What is treis? its tris, neilos -> nilos not n e i los. .....
What race was pharaohs in the old kingdom
Reptilians
Russian
What are you getting at?
Bolivian
Troll
Most of their comparison videos are incredibly dumb and don't show anything interesting. And the channel creators should be banned from doing the recitals themselves.
Many speakers of the languages covered in their videos, including me notice quite a lot mistakes. They're making cool videos indeed, but the attention to details isn't on Langfocus level.