jimmydiresta I can't get enough of you guys, I constantly learn things I had no idea I should know, and it's awesome to watch you do the same. I hate to get sappy but you guys are turning a generation of unknowledgeable guys like myself in to the stewards of the technical and handyman worlds. You deserve way more than any single subscriber could ever repay. Thanks, gentlemen.
Have you ever tried one of those contraptions? It doesn't shave perse.... it's an epilator. It literally rips the hair out of your flesh at blinding speeds.
This is crazy late but you missed the most interesting aspect of the "spool" problem. I did a minor analysis on this problem when I was studying physics. The spool unwinds when you pull it high, and it winds when you pull it low but most interestingly it will drag without winding or unwinding if you hit the right angle in the middle. That angle will be tangential to the center shaft going through the point of contact with the surface it's rolling on. Works for any ratio of spool and shaft diameters. Lots of fun physics in that little problem.
Thank you Tony. Great video. Showed my dad and we had a laugh together. He's 82, I really appreciate all the time I get with him. Thanks for letting us share a laugh, learn, and spend some time together.
YA 862 Hi Tony, way back in the days before fuel injection we used carburetors to properly control fuel to air ratios. Carburetors had a choke which, in the early days used heat from the exhaust to open the choke as the engine warmed up. So the reason for this “history” lesson is that Snap-On as well as other tool companies produce specific vortex tubes used to either heat or cool the choke to simulate operation. They work great! Also for many other uses. Thanks for the info, love what you do and keep’m coming!
Don’t come here to learn science, but I’m never disappointed. Not sure what I’ve learned watching this channel, but will continue to watch it until I learn that answer.
Sometimes I wake up at night, scared of what's gonna happen as soon as the guy gets himself a surrealistic B-movie budget crowdfunded and make shis directorial debut.
Can we make it happen? Once his kids & wife can take care of themselves. Wait, they already can. Or they're dead. Not sure which at this point (2 years after video). ;)
After disassembling a commercial unit for cleaning, I made a few of my own to experiment with, (one that had a bad nic in the vortex plate screamed so loudly, it hurt to touch it, and it shook itself to pieces after a minute). A notable difference, an orifice plate was used for cold side exhaust, to adapt air flow requirement, with no internal.nipple. My take on operating mode is that air is compressed on outer wall as center is evacuated, producing the temp differential. The valve regulates the fraction of that differential that exits, opening the valve gives much colder output but less air flow. This is opposite to Crystal Soulslayer's comment, sorry. Also, efficiency of these is poor, power requirement (it air) was one to five horse power for the units we were using.
The ribbon thing has to do with where the friction is in relation to the applied force. Think of it as though it weren't a spool. If instead of it being round, it were a deck of cards, and you pushed to the left on the top, it would fall left. If you pushed to the right, 1/4 of the way from the bottom, it would fall right. The force couple between the friction (which is ALWAYS opposite to the applied force) and pull of the tape creates a rotation. Because of the friction between the spool and the table, the point in contact does not slip (ESPECIALLY with that extra weight to it, more normal force means more friction). the rotation, plus the lack of slipping, causes the spool to roll. Note that it rolls in the direction of the pull every time, it is just counter intuitive because one way unwinds and one way winds. That comes from the relationship between where the force is applied, the point of friction, and the center of mass of the object. For a deeper understanding, google "Instantaneous Centers" Thank you for all the awesome videos! I love the "jokes" and the editing voodoo. One of my favorites is dropping stock and having it magically cut to length (boring head video), or smashing it with a hammer and getting the part and pile of chips (vice handle video, I think?)
Hi! I'm "that older and not so smart Tony" i'm a novice.....really novice ...learning machining and milling. I've crashed my lathe twice. Luckilly only cracked some change gear bushings and keys. Lathe still works....so i managed to make new bushings and keys. Thats quite the accomplishment for me. I really love your channel...and you and Blondi were the inspiration to get a lathe and a mill. The only thing outstanding is the aluminum spindle drive pulley which i can't remove because the key is mangled. I tried a gear puller ..with moderate force. Didn't want more force as it would probably deform the pulley. You are inspiring and funny......learning a lot! Sooooo....what the heck is a vortex tube used for???????
Oh yeah, that's hilarious and that's how I've always done it. With enough experience you can anticipate the crack and actually turn the crank back fast enough to ignite the flux capacitor and then you're home free (absolutely no crack is possible...😎)
I've learned most of what I have already forgotten from Reverend Jim (Iggy) Ignotowski of the People's Church of the Peaceful (Taxi)!!! And I remember my conversion happening about as quick as Rev. Jim's did. One second you're BMOC and a 4-square Frat dude; then you take the dare, and all of a sudden you've swapped your Frat sweater for a grungy blue denim jacket, and your personal anthem becomes "Lost in the Ozone" which you sing along with Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen!!! Life is Great!!!
The pointless tangent was covered by Steve mould recently. If I recall it's something along the lines of: 1. The sides of the spool that are contacting the surface the spool is resting on have a greater diameter than the wraps of tape. 2. The center of the spool is being pulled in the direction of the tape at a constant force. 3. Friction between the surface and the spool cause the spool to roll towards the loose tape. 4. As the spool is being pulled it has to move at at least the same speed as the puller, but because the friction causes the spool to roll it is picking up more tape there for must travel faster than the puller which means more friction which means faster rolling which means more tape is picked up. 5. The result of which is is the spool is not just traveling toward the puller, but infact accelerating toward the puller, until, puller stops, or the spool has collected all the tape, or the spool collects so much tape the sides of the spool no longer make contact with the surface.
I thought the phone call was a reference to James Greene's Short Serious Shennaningans, but after further review I'm thinking it's the dude with a large cache of Canadian Pesos.
I wonder if it's a friction thing. The hot side gets hot because of all the friction created by the vortex, increasing the temperature, which causes that air to expand. Cooler air gets squeezed into the middle. The higher pressure around the end valve thing keeps the cooler air from being able to get out, so it bounces back. Then the cooler air speeds up as it hits the narrow tube, pulling the central "column" of chilly air out as it forms. But it doesn't pull the input air as much, because that's swirling around the sides, mostly heading toward the more open hot end. The hot air vents at the end valve, so not as much of it is available for the cold end to pull out. And that is the end of my theory. Really enjoying the channel, man.
i wish you were my neighbor, bro...... i feel cheated in life....... lol... i used to be a machinist. And I have always loved science. you are my role model and hero..... although my days having fun with machine tools is over because of a busted up body, my mind is still active as ever. I like watching you make things and also investigative tasks. I love how you are so precise with your tools and jigs. that makes all of the difference in the product. please keep up the good work.
Lol I just recently started watching your vids.. Went from this pt1 n 2 back to 2013...so funny and amazing how sharp you have become since then in all aspects :)
Air conditioning units are based on the vortex tube idea. You got a compressor, the heat exchanger coils outside and the cold coils on the inside of the house. They just added a exchanger gate to recirculate the oil that helps keep the compressor oiled.
A boatload of work and fun...Breakfast of Champs. Thank You Tony (Mr. Wizard) for all you bring!! Had to watch it twice because I laughed so hard. I was 2 meters but shrunk in my old age to .00979 furlongs. Maybe it was because gravity changed or I expanded laterally. Almost hurt my self busting up....Man! ~PJ
I know this comment section has some age on it but I think I've figured it out. As Tony showed: the cold side is a vacuum when the hot side is wide open and is under compression when the hot side is closed. Which means that at some point the valve on the hot end can be set just right so that air will flow out both ends. With that in mind it has to be noted that the the air coming in to the hot side is still expanding from it's compressed state in the line. That expansion is droping the air temperature in the inlet initialy, then the temperature should rise again as it forms outer vortex. Soaking up heat from the walls of the tube and repressurising a bit. I'm totally glossing over some fancy science here, but I'm thinking that as the inner vortex escapes it has to pass by this low pressure zone in the incomming air causing the cold side vortex to lose its heat to the fresh incoming air. I think this effectively makes a heat trap, using temporary differences in pressure to force heat to flow to one side. IDK. Just some ramblingings from a dude in the comment section. Take it with a grain of salt.
Your spool problem is just a ratio. You should design a tape dispenser with dual captive planetary gearsets to fix it. Obviously. The world needs this.
regarding your tape problem: The current axis of rotation of a rolling cylinder is the point where the cylinder touches the surface and NOT the axis of symmetry of the cylinder itself. This is true for all time, although the axis moves as the cylinders moves. Pulling the tape results in a force acting on the cylinder at a point ABOVE the axis of rotation (but below the axis of symmetry; that why it is counter-intuitive). Hence there is a torque and subsequently a rotation toward the person pulling.
Tony we use these at work for the commutator slotting machines(simple slotting saw on glorified mill). We use vortex chillers, the OD of the hot side is almost 2" if my memory serves me right. Overall length without the flex nozzle is about 8-10 inches. We use Abanaki brand. Looks identical to this Vortec 610 15 SCFM Adjustable Cold Air Gun on amazon.
Brilliant. I've been meaning to model the flow dynamics of a Vortex tube for a while now. I am a CFD technologist. The flow sim on SolidWorks is a good first stab but the physics solvers are not going to be as good as the "Pro" solvers in something like Star-CCM+ or Fluent. If I get time on the mainframe I will let you know what I find. Thanks for the brilliant videos.
The plastic slug rotating the 'wrong' way is due to the 'Coanda Effect': A rotating circular body generates lift. In this case, the airflow is circular, and so imparts a rotation to the body itself.
No, the plastic slug rotating is just a consequence of friction between it and the outer tube, as explained at 5:20. The Coandă effect is something completely different, related to flow shaping around curved objects when it's _not_ constrained by anything on the outside.
I know this is late, I just ran across it. A little over 30 years ago I found one in a Big Lots store for a dollar. It was a personal model in a leather holster that was to be used in a hot explosive environment for personal cooling. The user wore a large hood connected to the cold side. This would be highly filtered air to prevent oil and other contaminates through. I took it to my college to find out what it was. My electronics instructor knew what it was. He said that Rudolph Hilsch found this information in France. This was during WWII and he was a German Officer. He hung on to the research until the end of the war because it was fascinating. Note: I may have some of the recount wrong since this happened in 1985. Hilsch continued the research and tried to find the unknown inventor. Eventually he was credited with finding it and his name was added to it. I seem to remember that someone came forward and claimed it later, but I do not know if it was the original researcher or not. We took mine down to the shop and ran it with 90psi air. We were using a bulb thermometer, we were reading well below freezing temperatures on the cold end and close to 150f on the hot end. Hence the leather holster. We had to stop since the cold end froze up with the moisture that was in the feed air. Mine could be disassembled for cleaning and the valve adjustment was used for the users temperature control. It was really a sweet device. I lent mine to the school, but when my instructor was replaced at retirement, the incoming idiot through it away. Sorry for the long post. Been awhile since I’ve had a chance to.
I've been fiddling with those things for decades ever since I first saw the Scientific American article you misidentified as from the Navy. Few points: in German they were called "wirbelrohr" which basically means "spinny whistle". If it isn't making that annoying high-pitched noise it's not working- the louder the whistle the better the vortex. If you find yourself staring at it and feeling around for an axe it's perfect. Using aluminum or wood or whatever really doesn't make any difference to speak of unless you want to use the hot air specifically (but we already have politicians for that)- you could build one out of ice or heat your aluminum one red-hot before running it (don't try to heat that figured maple one to red heat though). It works by separating slow-moving air molecules (low momentum) from fast-moving air molecules (high momentum). The slow ones are shoved into the center of the flow and insulated from the tube walls, kinda the opposite of what happens in High School hallways between classes. Finally, the airflow through the inlet(s) into the swirl chamber should be supersonic- you get that by shaping the inlet(s) into a cone rather than the straight holes you used on the inner swirly thing (the first one to the larger chamber doesn't really matter because it's just there to cut the turbulence but you knew that). The angle of the cone depends on the size and shape of the chamber and the airflow rate and the back pressure from the ends and some other stuff nobody understands. I think that's where the real black magic is.
I love your videos and laugh a lot because of your great sense of humour. I built one of these devices when i was a pipefitter helper in the mid 1970s in a steel plant. It had hot discharge and snow came out the cold side. Neither exit pipe was long. My sense was the most important feature was the ratio of the outlet diameters to each other and to the vortex diameter. I think there may be another consideration related to your experiment. Is your shop air dried? Having moisture in the air may be critical. Calgary gets Chinook winds that are warm in the winter. It is caused by the moist air rising on the west side of the Rockies(expansion) causing the water to be removed and the air heats up as the air compresses on the east side of the mountains, when it is dry.. It is called adiabatic heating. I think this effect may be important to the heat rise and cooling of the other side and the snow I saw. Might not, but I thought I would ask the question. Brian
Lol, another epic video! Thanks for entertaining us mortals! Wrt the vortex tube, a few ideas for experimentation come to mind: What difference would a flare/taper in the tube make (would probably have to be very gradual)? What about if you poke a (very small) hole in the tube right where the FLIR shows the highest temp; the theory being that if you dump some heat there (without ruining the vortex effect), you should be able to get colder temps at the cold end...
At 1:53 when you have the hot end open and it sucks in at the cold end: I can confirm that even store-bought vortex tubes do this. We had one in our lab and spent several hours trying to figure out why the dang pressure gauges weren't working right. Also, if you put vortex tubes in series, it is possible for it to get a little colder/hotter, but you'll need a lot higher pressure air. For it to work, it requires a significant pressure drop. So if you have a 100psi drop across one and you have 2 in series, you'll need more pressure. Actually it's not so much the pressure drop as it is the multiple of it: an inlet of 200psi and outlet of 100 isn't nearly as effective as going from 100 to 15psi.
My two cents: Adiabatic cooling and heating. It would be interesting to also measure the various pressures and velocity inside and along the tube. The vortex creates a low pressure in it's core: it's the centripetal force that makes it turn. That core drops in temperature (adiabatic coling). As the vortex shape progresses along the tube, it's velocity decreases, creating a higher pressure along the outside of the vortex, and adiabatic heating. The cold side is a bleeder valves that lets cold, low pressure air out.
The commercial vortex tube I have (not because I had any particular use in mind, but just for the "cool {ha-ha} factor") says that opening the hot end valve reduces cold air flow and lowers the temperature. So it looks like you get to choose "how cold" or "how much". BTW the hot air valve looks more like a needle valve rather than the fairly wide open rig that you have. Edit: (based on the idea of putting vortex tubes in series) any back pressure on the cold side seriously compromises the effect. No stacked vortex tubes for you, Tony.
Ha. Caught you out. There is no way you had enough shop air to run all those vortex tubes at once. The whole DiResta thing was just video tricks. Really feel for that poor guy with the vice problem, though. Hope he learns his lesson.
hey Tony, thanks for the new video! just watched your surface grinder project, you know those oil pots are for grease right!!! oh and btw, I dont know if you have came across Robin Renz's channel, this man is quite good with a surface grinder, I think he has been driving one since he's been dipers
Tape: imagine a lever with a fulcrum at the contact with the table, the force point at the tangent point where the tape meets the roll, and the action point at the axis of the cylinder. Put force towards you on the force point, and which way does the action point move? (Things in rotation - gears and pulleys - can be thought of as an infinite number of levers, each coming into play as they bear.) Thinking of this system as a lever, you will realize that as the tape is depleted, the relationship between how much you pull and how fast the spool rolls towards you will change. (How it will change is left as an exercise for the reader.)
tony will you please be my dad. or maybe just my weird uncle who makes bad jokes. AVE is other weird uncle so you could hand out and plan world domination.....
Gay-Lussac's Law: The Pressure Temperature Law. This law states that the pressure of a given amount of gas held at constant volume is directly proportional to the Kelvin temperature. As the pressure goes up, the temperature also goes up, and vice-versa. So - in the large chamber, with the control valve, the air is being compressed with the aid of the valve. The small chamber (constant release of gas) is under the same pressure but is rapidly expanding once it leaves the tube. This could be increased by decreasing the size if the cold tube and making a conical shaped exhaust port (to aid the gas spread / expansion).
Perhaps it's a bit late to bring it up, but I think my understanding is intuitive enough: The entirety of air in the hot tube is spinning with nearly equal angular velocity. So let's change to a rotating reference frame with the air. We rotate with the air so that air in our eyes is static. Also ignore wall friction for the moment. In this rotating frame, there is an artificial "gravity field" that is actually the centrifugal force in an rotating frame. In this artificial gravity the tube wall side is downward and the center side is upward. And as the same thing happens in earth's atmosphere, that low altitude air bears more static pressure thus must be hotter than high altitude air, here the wall side air bears more centrifugal pressure than near center air. Thus the center air is colder and wall side air is hotter. Essentially we are making a mini atmosphere layer wrapped inside a tube, with earth being the wall and outer space being the center. Then the cold tube tap off from the center where air is cold. The hot tube tap off from the wall where air is hot. You can't draw high altitude cold air in actual earth's atmosphere to cool yourself because when drawing high altitude air to your house you must compress it to match low altitude pressure and the air is heated. But here cold air is tapped off in axial direction, it doesn't need to go through any compression. When center air went missing, the wall side air will "raise" towards center, depressurized and expand, because again the center feels no pressure from our artificial gravity. This expansion cools it down so that they become legitimate cold "high altitude" air and can be continuously tapped off. Adding friction to the wall means extra heating mechanism for "low altitude" air, thus the hot side is very hot while the cold side is not very cold. And there is wall thermal radiation the the "low altitude" hot air, other than tapped off, has another way to give off the extra heat by radiation out of the tube.
Tony, I don't know if you'll see this, but thanks for doing these videos - I've been curious about Hilsch vortex tubes for over 30 years, but I still don't know if they change the ratio of oxygen/nitrogen at the outputs. As it also works like a gas centrifuge, I would hypothesize that one end will be oxygen enriched, and that could be really useful. Perhaps one day you could look at this?
Can't say for sure, but I would imagine the difference is so miniscule you can't detect it without gas chromatography or some other sort of really accurate measuring.
ATF (automatic transmission fluid) is what I like for machining aluminum. By design, it's meant to keep steel and aluminum parts separate and lubricated. Whatever no-name brand seems to work fine. Thanks for the follow up. Interesting/weird device. With my compressed air powered vacuum pump, I can keep my forehead cool while I bleed my AC system on my car, 3 minutes at a time, while my compressor cycles. ;)
xD you are definently getting subbed, i love how to take a complicated and somewhat boring topic, like why the vortex makes the plastic tube spin in the oposite direction and manage to explain it using teflon tape in such a way that actually makes me interested and want to go research it even though i know the actual science behind that wont be nearly as awesome as you made it seem. excelent work man
Michael Drews ; I remember one video where he's talking about a job he did in Thailand and his translator would call him "mista cryss," so I'd guess chris might be his first name. all his talk about grandpa McNamara leads me to believe that might be his surname. so Chris McNamara is what I've cobbled up in my mind
Btw, great production as always! You (in my mind) are the best editor on UA-cam with great content! Be careful though, the evil head of Hollywood will be calling if you keep this up! Don't say I didn't warn you!
+This Old Tony -- Twobes suggestions: Water bath for hot tube. Shopvac to air compressor inlet. Vary the air pressure more, higher. Add a larger or smaller tube on the hot side, that telescopes . . . Always assuming you still have any of this kit.
Is it possible to try the tube in a coil. ?? Like a heated ring to try & heat water. ?? Or multiple coils just to see what happens or happened. Thanks Tony always a pleasure to watch.
Note to self. When watching This Old Tony videos expect the unexpected whilst wearing your headphones with the volume turned way up. Needless to say the girly scream at high volume made me jump nearly as high as my German Shepherd who was asleep on my feet at the time. I'm sure most of the claw marks will buff out eventually... Just glad Jimmy wasn't in his birthday outfit with that spray can...
Hahahaha mad love!! Very funny. ... I stopped using lady epilogue and began to use hatchet blades ☺️
here comes diresta :D lol
jimmydiresta I can't get enough of you guys, I constantly learn things I had no idea I should know, and it's awesome to watch you do the same. I hate to get sappy but you guys are turning a generation of unknowledgeable guys like myself in to the stewards of the technical and handyman worlds. You deserve way more than any single subscriber could ever repay. Thanks, gentlemen.
jimmydiresta You came out of the hot side, but who came out of the cold side?
Probably AvE, he's from the cold side of Canuckistan after all. Hopefully he brought the vice with him...
Dakota Anderson thank you brother!!
Man I love this channel. Awesome follow up.
Practical Engineering
thanks!
Brady!
No Jimmy's were hurt? What about aVe's??!!?!?? That scream sounded like some irreversible damage was done...
no, turn the vice handle the other way i laughed so hard at that moment
I continue to binge my way thru your library. This is one of my favorites. Laughed out loud several times and wifey is trying to sleep - not good.
Seriously? You have a wife that angers when you laugh? Run.
Now THAT was a Treat Especial!
Great job! A nice blending of science, tooling, humor, and UA-cam culture.
Thumbs up for the DIRESTA electric leg shaver....
ThreeTwo Victor - that joke got me to subscribe!
Have you ever tried one of those contraptions? It doesn't shave perse.... it's an epilator. It literally rips the hair out of your flesh at blinding speeds.
mrquicky so you turn the speed down to a more manageable FRIKKEN OOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!!! level
This is crazy late but you missed the most interesting aspect of the "spool" problem. I did a minor analysis on this problem when I was studying physics. The spool unwinds when you pull it high, and it winds when you pull it low but most interestingly it will drag without winding or unwinding if you hit the right angle in the middle. That angle will be tangential to the center shaft going through the point of contact with the surface it's rolling on. Works for any ratio of spool and shaft diameters. Lots of fun physics in that little problem.
Addendum to this! Very recently, Steve Mould dropped a video on this exact phenomenon. Its a great watch
how do you not have millions of subscribers? both you an AVE are my favorite channels, and both of you need more recognition!
He does now.
Now AvE has to keep his stick on ice.
NOW AvE has TWO reasons, you mean; the original was to prevent a penalty, (I think), the new one is to reduce swelling.
I love how Jimmy is in the process of painting his name one something. 10/10
"Turn it the other way"... I was genuinely rolling at that part...tears and all. Kudos to you!!
Still chuckling...that one really tickled...
Thank you Tony. Great video. Showed my dad and we had a laugh together. He's 82, I really appreciate all the time I get with him. Thanks for letting us share a laugh, learn, and spend some time together.
Thanks Anchor, and thanks for watching!
It's always great when you add a cameo role from another awesome UA-camr
Your videos always make my day and I am always excited to see them. Please keep them up!
I can never pick a favorite bit in your videos, but Twobes, the V in vortex, and Thermal Boogaloo are all excellent. So many layers. :)
YA 862 Hi Tony, way back in the days before fuel injection we used carburetors to properly control fuel to air ratios. Carburetors had a choke which, in the early days used heat from the exhaust to open the choke as the engine warmed up. So the reason for this “history” lesson is that Snap-On as well as other tool companies produce specific vortex tubes used to either heat or cool the choke to simulate operation. They work great! Also for many other uses. Thanks for the info, love what you do and keep’m coming!
Wrong, 2 meters isn't 78 inches, it's 144Mhz!
Or a huge power bill ???
I'm so happy someone made this comment. Someone is gonna try telling me that 70cm is 27.559" not 440mhz
@@michaelt.9372 You guys sure are hamming it up in here!
Actually 78 inches is 2 metres. 2 meters are just useful.
@@twotone3070 I've been walking on feet my entire life. The only thing meter has ever done for me is tell me what my power bill is gonna be.
"It's not really a problem if you're a normal person" I love this.
You are an awesome content provider. Thanks for making your videos.
Don’t come here to learn science, but I’m never disappointed. Not sure what I’ve learned watching this channel, but will continue to watch it until I learn that answer.
Sometimes I wake up at night, scared of what's gonna happen as soon as the guy gets himself a surrealistic B-movie budget crowdfunded and make shis directorial debut.
Can we make it happen? Once his kids & wife can take care of themselves. Wait, they already can. Or they're dead. Not sure which at this point (2 years after video). ;)
After disassembling a commercial unit for cleaning, I made a few of my own to experiment with, (one that had a bad nic in the vortex plate screamed so loudly, it hurt to touch it, and it shook itself to pieces after a minute). A notable difference, an orifice plate was used for cold side exhaust, to adapt air flow requirement, with no internal.nipple.
My take on operating mode is that air is compressed on outer wall as center is evacuated, producing the temp differential. The valve regulates the fraction of that differential that exits, opening the valve gives much colder output but less air flow. This is opposite to Crystal Soulslayer's comment, sorry. Also, efficiency of these is poor, power requirement (it air) was one to five horse power for the units we were using.
The ribbon thing has to do with where the friction is in relation to the applied force. Think of it as though it weren't a spool. If instead of it being round, it were a deck of cards, and you pushed to the left on the top, it would fall left. If you pushed to the right, 1/4 of the way from the bottom, it would fall right. The force couple between the friction (which is ALWAYS opposite to the applied force) and pull of the tape creates a rotation. Because of the friction between the spool and the table, the point in contact does not slip (ESPECIALLY with that extra weight to it, more normal force means more friction). the rotation, plus the lack of slipping, causes the spool to roll. Note that it rolls in the direction of the pull every time, it is just counter intuitive because one way unwinds and one way winds. That comes from the relationship between where the force is applied, the point of friction, and the center of mass of the object.
For a deeper understanding, google "Instantaneous Centers"
Thank you for all the awesome videos! I love the "jokes" and the editing voodoo. One of my favorites is dropping stock and having it magically cut to length (boring head video), or smashing it with a hammer and getting the part and pile of chips (vice handle video, I think?)
3 dislikes so far... Jimmy, AVE, and Stephan? Nah.
Thanks for the fun!
Could also have been mrpete222, he got a shot this time too :)
Hi! I'm "that older and not so smart Tony" i'm a novice.....really novice ...learning machining and milling. I've crashed my lathe twice. Luckilly only cracked some change gear bushings and keys. Lathe still works....so i managed to make new bushings and keys. Thats quite the accomplishment for me. I really love your channel...and you and Blondi were the inspiration to get a lathe and a mill. The only thing outstanding is the aluminum spindle drive pulley which i can't remove because the key is mangled. I tried a gear puller ..with moderate force. Didn't want more force as it would probably deform the pulley. You are inspiring and funny......learning a lot! Sooooo....what the heck is a vortex tube used for???????
Tighten till you hear a crack....back off a quarter turn....
Oh yeah, that's hilarious and that's how I've always done it. With enough experience you can anticipate the crack and actually turn the crank back fast enough to ignite the flux capacitor and then you're home free (absolutely no crack is possible...😎)
I've learned most of what I have already forgotten from Reverend Jim (Iggy) Ignotowski of the People's Church of the Peaceful (Taxi)!!! And I remember my conversion happening about as quick as Rev. Jim's did. One second you're BMOC and a 4-square Frat dude; then you take the dare, and all of a sudden you've swapped your Frat sweater for a grungy blue denim jacket, and your personal anthem becomes "Lost in the Ozone" which you sing along with Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen!!! Life is Great!!!
Don't forget to leave it for the night shift.
The pointless tangent was covered by Steve mould recently. If I recall it's something along the lines of:
1. The sides of the spool that are contacting the surface the spool is resting on have a greater diameter than the wraps of tape.
2. The center of the spool is being pulled in the direction of the tape at a constant force.
3. Friction between the surface and the spool cause the spool to roll towards the loose tape.
4. As the spool is being pulled it has to move at at least the same speed as the puller, but because the friction causes the spool to roll it is picking up more tape there for must travel faster than the puller which means more friction which means faster rolling which means more tape is picked up.
5. The result of which is is the spool is not just traveling toward the puller, but infact accelerating toward the puller, until, puller stops, or the spool has collected all the tape, or the spool collects so much tape the sides of the spool no longer make contact with the surface.
The quality of humor and the wild imagination of This Old Tony is addictive.
I think i shit myself laughing, wait that isn't mine, never mind.
Is this stand up Engineering or a funny machinist?
Love the humor and details you put in the videos! :)
Very much enjoying the humor, the learning, and the troll crushing. Thanks much.
I thought the phone call was a reference to James Greene's Short Serious Shennaningans, but after further review I'm thinking it's the dude with a large cache of Canadian Pesos.
I wonder if it's a friction thing. The hot side gets hot because of all the friction created by the vortex, increasing the temperature, which causes that air to expand. Cooler air gets squeezed into the middle. The higher pressure around the end valve thing keeps the cooler air from being able to get out, so it bounces back. Then the cooler air speeds up as it hits the narrow tube, pulling the central "column" of chilly air out as it forms. But it doesn't pull the input air as much, because that's swirling around the sides, mostly heading toward the more open hot end. The hot air vents at the end valve, so not as much of it is available for the cold end to pull out.
And that is the end of my theory. Really enjoying the channel, man.
i wish you were my neighbor, bro...... i feel cheated in life....... lol... i used to be a machinist. And I have always loved science. you are my role model and hero..... although my days having fun with machine tools is over because of a busted up body, my mind is still active as ever. I like watching you make things and also investigative tasks. I love how you are so precise with your tools and jigs. that makes all of the difference in the product. please keep up the good work.
sorry to hear that but thanks and great to have you watching!
Delightfully comedic while equally informative as usual.
Lol I just recently started watching your vids.. Went from this pt1 n 2 back to 2013...so funny and amazing how sharp you have become since then in all aspects :)
Air conditioning units are based on the vortex tube idea. You got a compressor, the heat exchanger coils outside and the cold coils on the inside of the house. They just added a exchanger gate to recirculate the oil that helps keep the compressor oiled.
Wish I could thumbs up more than once! Thank you for all your great videos.
go home James Clerk Maxwell, you're drunk
The diresta's lady shaver was top banter.
A boatload of work and fun...Breakfast of Champs. Thank You Tony (Mr. Wizard) for all you bring!! Had to watch it twice because I laughed so hard. I was 2 meters but shrunk in my old age to .00979 furlongs. Maybe it was because gravity changed or I expanded laterally. Almost hurt my self busting up....Man! ~PJ
I think it might be time for me to get some therapy - your sense of humour is absolutely killing me (in a good way). Seriously, love your videos!
I know this comment section has some age on it but I think I've figured it out. As Tony showed: the cold side is a vacuum when the hot side is wide open and is under compression when the hot side is closed. Which means that at some point the valve on the hot end can be set just right so that air will flow out both ends. With that in mind it has to be noted that the the air coming in to the hot side is still expanding from it's compressed state in the line.
That expansion is droping the air temperature in the inlet initialy, then the temperature should rise again as it forms outer vortex. Soaking up heat from the walls of the tube and repressurising a bit.
I'm totally glossing over some fancy science here, but I'm thinking that as the inner vortex escapes it has to pass by this low pressure zone in the incomming air causing the cold side vortex to lose its heat to the fresh incoming air.
I think this effectively makes a heat trap, using temporary differences in pressure to force heat to flow to one side.
IDK. Just some ramblingings from a dude in the comment section. Take it with a grain of salt.
I have a cheap Ebay vortex tube, it only cost £12 and it has -40c on the cold side and +250c in the hot side. Build quality is exceptional too.
Your spool problem is just a ratio. You should design a tape dispenser with dual captive planetary gearsets to fix it. Obviously. The world needs this.
regarding your tape problem:
The current axis of rotation of a rolling cylinder is the point where the cylinder touches the surface and NOT the axis of symmetry of the cylinder itself. This is true for all time, although the axis moves as the cylinders moves. Pulling the tape results in a force acting on the cylinder at a point ABOVE the axis of rotation (but below the axis of symmetry; that why it is counter-intuitive). Hence there is a torque and subsequently a rotation toward the person pulling.
This time, the hula-skirt for all tools got me good.. xD You Sir, are hilarious! And the same time fun and educational to watch.
Tony we use these at work for the commutator slotting machines(simple slotting saw on glorified mill). We use vortex chillers, the OD of the hot side is almost 2" if my memory serves me right. Overall length without the flex nozzle is about 8-10 inches. We use Abanaki brand. Looks identical to this Vortec 610 15 SCFM Adjustable Cold Air Gun on amazon.
Brilliant. I've been meaning to model the flow dynamics of a Vortex tube for a while now. I am a CFD technologist. The flow sim on SolidWorks is a good first stab but the physics solvers are not going to be as good as the "Pro" solvers in something like Star-CCM+ or Fluent. If I get time on the mainframe I will let you know what I find. Thanks for the brilliant videos.
DUDE.. I Died laughing at the end.. Love your stuff and the humor add is epic
You are the real thing. Thanks for attempting almost anything. Take care
Your vids keep getting better and better!! Love the humor!
The plastic slug rotating the 'wrong' way is due to the 'Coanda Effect': A rotating circular body generates lift. In this case, the airflow is circular, and so imparts a rotation to the body itself.
Poppy Puppy i
Actually it is closer to precession, the same reason my bike pedals kept falling off.
Coanda forever!
No, the plastic slug rotating is just a consequence of friction between it and the outer tube, as explained at 5:20. The Coandă effect is something completely different, related to flow shaping around curved objects when it's _not_ constrained by anything on the outside.
I had to subscribe,your editing and humor is spot on ,
I know this is late, I just ran across it. A little over 30 years ago I found one in a Big Lots store for a dollar. It was a personal model in a leather holster that was to be used in a hot explosive environment for personal cooling. The user wore a large hood connected to the cold side. This would be highly filtered air to prevent oil and other contaminates through. I took it to my college to find out what it was. My electronics instructor knew what it was. He said that Rudolph Hilsch found this information in France. This was during WWII and he was a German Officer. He hung on to the research until the end of the war because it was fascinating. Note: I may have some of the recount wrong since this happened in 1985. Hilsch continued the research and tried to find the unknown inventor. Eventually he was credited with finding it and his name was added to it. I seem to remember that someone came forward and claimed it later, but I do not know if it was the original researcher or not. We took mine down to the shop and ran it with 90psi air. We were using a bulb thermometer, we were reading well below freezing temperatures on the cold end and close to 150f on the hot end. Hence the leather holster. We had to stop since the cold end froze up with the moisture that was in the feed air. Mine could be disassembled for cleaning and the valve adjustment was used for the users temperature control. It was really a sweet device. I lent mine to the school, but when my instructor was replaced at retirement, the incoming idiot through it away. Sorry for the long post. Been awhile since I’ve had a chance to.
I've been fiddling with those things for decades ever since I first saw the Scientific American article you misidentified as from the Navy.
Few points: in German they were called "wirbelrohr" which basically means "spinny whistle". If it isn't making that annoying high-pitched noise it's not working- the louder the whistle the better the vortex. If you find yourself staring at it and feeling around for an axe it's perfect.
Using aluminum or wood or whatever really doesn't make any difference to speak of unless you want to use the hot air specifically (but we already have politicians for that)- you could build one out of ice or heat your aluminum one red-hot before running it (don't try to heat that figured maple one to red heat though). It works by separating slow-moving air molecules (low momentum) from fast-moving air molecules (high momentum). The slow ones are shoved into the center of the flow and insulated from the tube walls, kinda the opposite of what happens in High School hallways between classes.
Finally, the airflow through the inlet(s) into the swirl chamber should be supersonic- you get that by shaping the inlet(s) into a cone rather than the straight holes you used on the inner swirly thing (the first one to the larger chamber doesn't really matter because it's just there to cut the turbulence but you knew that). The angle of the cone depends on the size and shape of the chamber and the airflow rate and the back pressure from the ends and some other stuff nobody understands. I think that's where the real black magic is.
I love your videos and laugh a lot because of your great sense of humour. I built one of these devices when i was a pipefitter helper in the mid 1970s in a steel plant. It had hot discharge and snow came out the cold side. Neither exit pipe was long. My sense was the most important feature was the ratio of the outlet diameters to each other and to the vortex diameter. I think there may be another consideration related to your experiment. Is your shop air dried? Having moisture in the air may be critical. Calgary gets Chinook winds that are warm in the winter. It is caused by the moist air rising on the west side of the Rockies(expansion) causing the water to be removed and the air heats up as the air compresses on the east side of the mountains, when it is dry.. It is called adiabatic heating. I think this effect may be important to the heat rise and cooling of the other side and the snow I saw. Might not, but I thought I would ask the question. Brian
The pulling the tape off the spool tangent brought back a distant memory:
Physics is fun. Just ask Mr Wizard.
Lol, another epic video! Thanks for entertaining us mortals! Wrt the vortex tube, a few ideas for experimentation come to mind: What difference would a flare/taper in the tube make (would probably have to be very gradual)? What about if you poke a (very small) hole in the tube right where the FLIR shows the highest temp; the theory being that if you dump some heat there (without ruining the vortex effect), you should be able to get colder temps at the cold end...
At 1:53 when you have the hot end open and it sucks in at the cold end: I can confirm that even store-bought vortex tubes do this. We had one in our lab and spent several hours trying to figure out why the dang pressure gauges weren't working right. Also, if you put vortex tubes in series, it is possible for it to get a little colder/hotter, but you'll need a lot higher pressure air. For it to work, it requires a significant pressure drop. So if you have a 100psi drop across one and you have 2 in series, you'll need more pressure. Actually it's not so much the pressure drop as it is the multiple of it: an inlet of 200psi and outlet of 100 isn't nearly as effective as going from 100 to 15psi.
The Note on fire was funny. At least you'll have it to light your torch if you lose the striker.
I've watched this video many times. Don't watch it late at night if you have a dog. He woke up and is now begging for a treat lol
My two cents:
Adiabatic cooling and heating. It would be interesting to also measure the various pressures and velocity inside and along the tube.
The vortex creates a low pressure in it's core: it's the centripetal force that makes it turn. That core drops in temperature (adiabatic coling). As the vortex shape progresses along the tube, it's velocity decreases, creating a higher pressure along the outside of the vortex, and adiabatic heating. The cold side is a bleeder valves that lets cold, low pressure air out.
Totally fun to watch and learn from.
2:38 I think you need some more WWJD-40...
LMAO WHEN JIMMY APPEARED I FELL OUT OF MY SEAT
Lol! Nice add in of Jimmy👍
Is that who the guy was that posed into existence at the end of the video? Who is Jimmy?
:))) Watthias, Hank Bakes, KeepYaDintheVice, all these are guys whose vidjeos I'm watching with the same zest as am watching yours!
Haahha the Stefan getting immediately denied part, was great!
He is getting a few steps closer to proving existence of black holes.
The teflon tape being pulled tangent to the roll made the TOT's Pointless Tangent all the more enjoyable.
Man, I love your videos and humor.
The commercial vortex tube I have (not because I had any particular use in mind, but just for the "cool {ha-ha} factor") says that opening the hot end valve reduces cold air flow and lowers the temperature. So it looks like you get to choose "how cold" or "how much". BTW the hot air valve looks more like a needle valve rather than the fairly wide open rig that you have.
Edit: (based on the idea of putting vortex tubes in series) any back pressure on the cold side seriously compromises the effect. No stacked vortex tubes for you, Tony.
Loved that ending, Tony! :P
Also, penny nail for a nickle 😂😂
Ha. Caught you out. There is no way you had enough shop air to run all those vortex tubes at once. The whole DiResta thing was just video tricks.
Really feel for that poor guy with the vice problem, though. Hope he learns his lesson.
Someone needs to remind him, "Righty Lucy, Lefty Reliefy" or sumpin' like that ;-)
DrPortland Oh I can’t wait to see who took you seriously.
laughed my ass off and nearly choked on my sandwich at 00: 48 xD
you sir....made my day ! thank you ! XD
hey Tony, thanks for the new video!
just watched your surface grinder project, you know those oil pots are for grease right!!!
oh and btw, I dont know if you have came across Robin Renz's channel, this man is quite good with a surface grinder, I think he has been driving one since he's been dipers
Yeah, he's great! Too bad there's very few videos on his channel. Also Clickspring is wonderful to watch.
Tape: imagine a lever with a fulcrum at the contact with the table, the force point at the tangent point where the tape meets the roll, and the action point at the axis of the cylinder. Put force towards you on the force point, and which way does the action point move? (Things in rotation - gears and pulleys - can be thought of as an infinite number of levers, each coming into play as they bear.) Thinking of this system as a lever, you will realize that as the tape is depleted, the relationship between how much you pull and how fast the spool rolls towards you will change. (How it will change is left as an exercise for the reader.)
Had a Good laugh watching this video. Thanks for making my day better
tony will you please be my dad. or maybe just my weird uncle who makes bad jokes. AVE is other weird uncle so you could hand out and plan world domination.....
no its normal to have two testicles not uncles, you are mixing those two up, i think...
I think three is where the problems start.
LUKE MASSEY AQ
Guds777 lmfao!!!!!!! Correction .....LMFTO!!!!!!!!!
You have a wicked, wicked sense of humour
Gay-Lussac's Law: The Pressure Temperature Law. This law states that the pressure of a given amount of gas held at constant volume is directly proportional to the Kelvin temperature. As the pressure goes up, the temperature also goes up, and vice-versa.
So - in the large chamber, with the control valve, the air is being compressed with the aid of the valve. The small chamber (constant release of gas) is under the same pressure but is rapidly expanding once it leaves the tube. This could be increased by decreasing the size if the cold tube and making a conical shaped exhaust port (to aid the gas spread / expansion).
Perhaps it's a bit late to bring it up, but I think my understanding is intuitive enough:
The entirety of air in the hot tube is spinning with nearly equal angular velocity. So let's change to a rotating reference frame with the air. We rotate with the air so that air in our eyes is static. Also ignore wall friction for the moment.
In this rotating frame, there is an artificial "gravity field" that is actually the centrifugal force in an rotating frame. In this artificial gravity the tube wall side is downward and the center side is upward. And as the same thing happens in earth's atmosphere, that low altitude air bears more static pressure thus must be hotter than high altitude air, here the wall side air bears more centrifugal pressure than near center air. Thus the center air is colder and wall side air is hotter. Essentially we are making a mini atmosphere layer wrapped inside a tube, with earth being the wall and outer space being the center.
Then the cold tube tap off from the center where air is cold. The hot tube tap off from the wall where air is hot. You can't draw high altitude cold air in actual earth's atmosphere to cool yourself because when drawing high altitude air to your house you must compress it to match low altitude pressure and the air is heated. But here cold air is tapped off in axial direction, it doesn't need to go through any compression.
When center air went missing, the wall side air will "raise" towards center, depressurized and expand, because again the center feels no pressure from our artificial gravity. This expansion cools it down so that they become legitimate cold "high altitude" air and can be continuously tapped off.
Adding friction to the wall means extra heating mechanism for "low altitude" air, thus the hot side is very hot while the cold side is not very cold. And there is wall thermal radiation the the "low altitude" hot air, other than tapped off, has another way to give off the extra heat by radiation out of the tube.
6:06 That was more fun than it should have been.
Tony, I don't know if you'll see this, but thanks for doing these videos - I've been curious about Hilsch vortex tubes for over 30 years, but I still don't know if they change the ratio of oxygen/nitrogen at the outputs. As it also works like a gas centrifuge, I would hypothesize that one end will be oxygen enriched, and that could be really useful.
Perhaps one day you could look at this?
Can't say for sure, but I would imagine the difference is so miniscule you can't detect it without gas chromatography or some other sort of really accurate measuring.
@@Sup3rman1cdifference in density between oxygen and nitrogen is significant - I would expect the output concentrations to be markedly different too.
hahaha great stuff Tony, having a good time learnin' and laughin' over here
Hey, I loved the video, thanks for the answer on the original comment and in this video, it's always appreciated!
When I worked in the chemical Plants, We could have used these to cool our acid suits. People were passing out from heat and suffocation.
ATF (automatic transmission fluid) is what I like for machining aluminum. By design, it's meant to keep steel and aluminum parts separate and lubricated. Whatever no-name brand seems to work fine.
Thanks for the follow up. Interesting/weird device. With my compressed air powered vacuum pump, I can keep my forehead cool while I bleed my AC system on my car, 3 minutes at a time, while my compressor cycles. ;)
Ok that title alone just earned you my sub
that spool rolling itself up trick, that's a similar concept to the outer edge of train wheels moving backward relative to the train itself.
xD you are definently getting subbed, i love how to take a complicated and somewhat boring topic, like why the vortex makes the plastic tube spin in the oposite direction and manage to explain it using teflon tape in such a way that actually makes me interested and want to go research it even though i know the actual science behind that wont be nearly as awesome as you made it seem. excelent work man
"Listen, Mr. Whatever your name is... again, in the vice?"
:'D
PKMartin fun fact: ave slipped and said his name once
Ryan McHale when?
Michael Drews ; I remember one video where he's talking about a job he did in Thailand and his translator would call him "mista cryss," so I'd guess chris might be his first name. all his talk about grandpa McNamara leads me to believe that might be his surname. so Chris McNamara is what I've cobbled up in my mind
well after so many times his...must be imune to the vice :D
Btw, great production as always! You (in my mind) are the best editor on UA-cam with great content! Be careful though, the evil head of Hollywood will be calling if you keep this up! Don't say I didn't warn you!
I gotta say, if the dark side of seedy science can make Jimmy appear with a can of Montana gold spray paint, it might be worth it!
Damn, you overwhelming genius, you just blew my mind, twice... now I am brainless, well I was already maybe...
+This Old Tony -- Twobes suggestions: Water bath for hot tube. Shopvac to air compressor inlet. Vary the air pressure more, higher. Add a larger or smaller tube on the hot side, that telescopes . . . Always assuming you still have any of this kit.
Is it possible to try the tube in a coil. ??
Like a heated ring to try & heat water. ?? Or multiple coils just to see what happens or happened. Thanks Tony always a pleasure to watch.
Note to self. When watching This Old Tony videos expect the unexpected whilst wearing your headphones with the volume turned way up. Needless to say the girly scream at high volume made me jump nearly as high as my German Shepherd who was asleep on my feet at the time. I'm sure most of the claw marks will buff out eventually...
Just glad Jimmy wasn't in his birthday outfit with that spray can...