LOL I am once again corrected, so well done to everyone who pointed out that the Saab 21 is a great example of a pusher type that did get into service. 😁
@@Frankie5Angels150 G'day, WRONG... The Jokularis jokulii Hinged on the point that the Me-163, The Flame-farting Rocket-powered little Flying Flea... Had not Got Any Propeller at all... The Humour of the Suggestion lies in the Rotational Airscrew Array Referred to having been in fact a Free-Air Wind-Turbine...; Direct-driving a Direct Current Electric Generator. Literally, the Joke hinges on the Factoid of the Me-163's "Propeller" NOT actually being an Airscrew At all, not At all..., not even a Little bit. Perhaps...(?) Ye should be considering Making some kind of Video Response, Asserting the Me-163 To be The World's Fastest WINDMILL...? Or, would that cause you Problems rooted in Pedantry...; & protesting that The Turbine on the '163 Failed to grind any Grist into Flour..., & nor did it Pump any Water. And Yet... It was INDEED the only Free-Air Windmill on the Planet, which was Designed to operate with 560 MPH of Airflow streaming back through it's Disc...; Being pushed through the Atmosphere by Superheated Steam, outgassing from the Walther Rocket's Decomposition/Reaction Chamber's Nozzle. Onwards & Upwards... (Until a rough landing fractures a Fuelpipe and the Pilot is chemically DISSOLVED in his seat, Before being able to Unstrap & Disembark). They wasn't considered the Death Or Glory Mob, For nuthin' ; Y'see (?) ! Such is life, Have a good one. ;-p Ciao !
@@Frankie5Angels150 It's a JOKE for F's sake! The 163 had a tiny little airscrew in the nose. I think it was for driving the electrics or something, I've forgotten.
@@mpetersen6It was also the most maneuverable. That is, if you count maneuverable as being able to move the most, and you count wing buffeting so bad the wings _flap_ as movement.
I think you are confusing the planes top speed, with the top speed of the test pilots arms as he realises hes doomed while the wings race him to the ground separately
As soon as you cited Aircraft/Warplanes of the Third Reisch by William Green, I grabbed my copy, turned to the Dornier 335's entry, and can confirm that Green claims the maximum speed of the Do335A-1 to be 474 m.p.h at 21,325 ft
The video starts off with Republic's claim of top speed for the P-47J versus actual tests at Wright-Patterson. For the Do-335 the same situation exists. Check the Rechlin tests for the tested max speed.
Don’t think there is any definitive accurate source for top speed. As such it will be impossible to determine which piston engine WW2 plane was the fastest. So with that said I still consider the Pfeil to be the record holder - but that’s just my opinion.
@@daszieher I wasn't saying the numbers were necessarily accurate, just that I have a copy of the book Ed wasn't able to, and I can confirm the claimed figure is in there
Keep in mind that this was only with the boost running and on much lower octane fuel than the USA or UK were using, unfortunately the one that was tested in the USA we never got the test data from it. There is a note saying this was a 30 second duration boost which got it to 474mph in some of the notes from other sources that Green referenced. If we ever can get hold of the US Air Force tests with the US higher octane fuels on he one they had we might be able to put this to rest, some US pilots think that with the correct high end fuel it probably could break 500mph but a is debatable as 89 versus 100 octane fuel is a big jump but unlikely to be that big but with the 100/130 octane fuel there is some chance they might have been right during boost (going from 89 to 130 is a BIG jump…).
I enjoyed that. I had the wonderful experience of standing next to Yale English professor Norwood Russell Hanson’s F8f Bearcat. He kept it at Tweed New Haven Airport in Connecticut, USA. It was painted black with white eagle claws painted on that long legged landing gear. Flying magazine did an article on it; and stripped of guns and armor, it was reported to go 500 mph. When it entered the pattern it sounded like a jet, beautiful. As a kid it was a wonderful time. We would ride our bikes to the airport and sit on an old picnic table outside the FBO and just take it all in. Unfortunately, Hanson flew the ‘Cat into a Pennsylvania hillside in bad weather. Both pilot and aircraft died.
Ed. I think you hit gold with this one . And it's a comfort to know the Spiteful was the top dog . Thanks Ed . (Of course we both know someone will always contest the claim!)
It's definitely possible the 505mph is legit. Air conditions can account for the discrepancy. When you look at the Reno Air Race results, planes that do over 500mph one year can struggle to hit 470mph the next, due to what's going on in the air (temp, humidity, wind, etc).
@@johnnycab8986 no, it is not legit. The XP-47J blew up a brand new engine making the run, and it was not recorded with official instruments, nor was it witnessed by anyone other than the pilot. it could not be replicated with all further attempts falling WELL SHORT of the claim (more than 20mph short, consistently). the official top speed of the XP-47J,and the highest Recorded top sped of the XP-47J is the 484mph speed. The pilot likely over-revved the engine in a shallow power dive, and dives don't count regarding top speed. And this subsequently caused the engine to fail. In NO WAY does the 505mph Claim by teh pilot count. NO record keeping body would ever accept that as a record by any stretch of the imagination. P-47 fanboys just have to keep coping.
I love these super prop designs. Its also pretty neat just to see how long the idea of trying to get a propeller driven aircraft to go even faster stuck around for. With stuff like the thunderscreach and tu-95 later coming around. Maybe one day you could make a video about the fastest military propeller driven aircraft.
Be aware that both the Thunderscreech and the TU 95 were/are turboprops, and not "piston driven". But yes both the defunct thunderscreech and the still flying TU 95 used props.
With 500+ built, I'd have to go for the P-51H as the fastest 'fighter'- as you said, prototypes are almost always lighter and cosseted in some way that makes the top speed unrealistic in service. Other then that, it seems to me that the Spiteful F Mk 16 probably has the most reliably recorded highest speed of an aircraft designed to be a fighter.
@@Frankie5Angels150, despite its undoubted hot-rod status, the Supermarine Spiteful rather ironically, had some incredibly spiteful low speed handling issues........
Thats just it isnt it, the P-51H was actually made in numbers to be useful, not some Japanese pipe dream or some crazed drug addled dream of the Nazis. If you go down that road and say actually used in WW2 in numbers to be useful then Bear Cat, Mustang, Tempest and maybe Tiger Cat.
Hmm, perhaps for a more complete info, a collab with Greg's Airplane and Automobile channel. That guy gots lots ofr performance charts for different altitudes and manifold pressure.
Ed: 'Anyone for tennis', while rolling a hand-grenade (minus pin) into the room 🤣🤣🤣 But in all seriousness, a well-researched and thoroughly enjoyable run through the archives - thank you 😀
Kudos for taking this subject on. The claims for any supposed fastest will find it difficult to escape suspicion for one reason or another, I think we can say that any aircraft that could reach 450 plus was an exceptional machine.
I'd love if Eric Brown was still alive to pitch in to these comments: "Flew that. Flew that one. Flew that one too, and that one... Went to fly that one in 1945, but the only remaining engine at the airfield blew up as I was taxiing...." Etc. 🙂
VERY NICE discussion!! After the war, Wright Field tested just about every airplane that the Axis powers had come up with, and YEARS AGO I came across a website that had many of their typewriter-written reports scanned and available. I cannot remember if the Do335 was included, but I would be very curious to see what their figures were on it (I cannot seem to locate the old website through any search engines). I am a former military pilot and (Heaven help me) retired air traffic controller, and a point that seems to allude most non-pilots is that "top speeds" are typically TRUE AIRSPEEDS after a myriad of corrections have been applied to them, and true airspeeds are very dependent upon the ALTITUDE (mostly temperature, but also atmospheric pressure) that the measurements are taken at. The thing is, around WWII, there wasn't really any universal convention on how to arrive at the calculated speeds. For instance, the more advanced models of the F4U Corsair had published "top speeds" well in excess of 400mph, and the Grumman F6F Hellcat was only supposed to be capable of around 360mph. At one point in the war, the Department of the Navy insisted that Grumman and Vought swap some fighters, in the hope that each company could improve their own fighter by being exposed to the capabilities of the other's design. Famed Grumman test pilot Corky Meyer claimed that, against the F4U that they took on for testing, that head to head, the poor "360mph" Hellcat could easily "walk away" from the "faster" F4U at just about every altitude!! And just the basics of flight testing in the 1940s was an EVOLVING discipline! So, your task becomes even more daunting, just because the observations-made-specifications, at that time, were anything but a standard practice!! And just one other point....the fighters of WWII RARELY RACED EACH OTHER!! Aerial combat is VERY RARELY done at any airplane's top speed!!! If anything, dogfighting is very often nearest the opposing airplanes' STALL SPEED, as they try to outmaneuver each other. Where a "top speed contest" comes into play are basically when an approaching fighter is attempting to CATCH an opponent to try to shoot them down, or as being able to determine who can successfully break off the fight and escape to fight another day, with the faster ship having a distinct advantage. YOU REALLY DID A NICE JOB with the discussion with the information you used, but the discussion, honestly, is SO VERY VAGUE with the data we have available to us at this point in history. The only REAL WAY to determine the answers would be to have ONE test and evaluation team fly EACH of the airplanes in the running, using a very precise set of testing criteria, and OBVIOUSLY that's just no longer possible (that's why I think the Wright Field flight test data would be SO HELPFUL here). LOVE YOUR STUFF CHUM!!!
Well said. I think it's also important to remember that fighter aircraft aren't boxers who weight in and then square off in a ring. A fighter may excel in one mission set yet utterly fail in another (e.g. P-38 and Brewster Buffalo in PTO vice ETO). Anecdotes from the era (even from trained test pilots) are often fraught with bias and inconsistent baselines (armor/armament/fuel load/octane level/etc). "Fast" doesn't take into account acceleration, angle of attack (which increases the effect of gravity) nor the effect of speed on axis of control. Too many variables.
Now that you’ve mentioned the “what if?” scenario, I imagined an alternate universe where Rolls-Royce got their shit together and actually got the Crecy to be put in a test bed. It would most likely go into a Spitfire airframe with a nasty five-bladed prop and a complex extractor system to squeeze every last bit from the two-stroke’s massive exhaust gas production. It would also definitely be ridiculously loud, as engineers noted when they first tested the Crecy. Consider me very impressed with this tier list! Thanks for setting things right!
@@spikespa5208 This isn't ever a very good measurement due to how piston engine aircraft function and how fuel mixtures and turbochargers worked. Most aircraft were literally not designed to go particularly fast at 200 feet.
All you need is a two speed blower thats designed to kick in at high altitude, but instead kick it in to high blower down on the deck. Then spray water/methanol for ADI. Then run the RPM up to the maximum permissible dive over-rev speed of 3,400-3,500rpm. Then get a larger propeller with wider chord blades and cut it down to a length short enough so that most of the propeller remains transonic or subsonic. Offer a maniac a chance to fly it and put just enough fuel in the tanks to fly 50 miles, plus 15 minutes. Not hard. Just takes money and effort.
@@WereScrib Well, then pick an altitude. But make it the same for every plane. This "I'm faster at 10,000 ft." " _But I'm faster at 30,000 ft._ " is bogus.
It was converted to jet power later on…. How about a video on planes that started out piston powered and were converted to jet power…. I.E. the flying wing!
What’s crazy about the fury 1 is that we only have data for its top speed without 150 octane fuel. With no 150 grade fuel it had a top speed of 482mph while making 3,055hp. With 150 grade fuel it’s engine was rated for 3,500hp, but we have no top speeds recorded for this plane in that configuration
When I was in tech school, we had a Sea Fury park in our hangar for the night on ferry from an airshow. The following morning (prob as a treat more than anything) they did a power check on our apron with the aircraft tethered to a forged steel ring tied into the concrete. It was a rush for sure....and actually bent the ring. The amount of power available almost instantaneously to a single operator blew my mind.
Your speeds are quite different than many other publications I have read many written by well know experts in that period in aviation. With that said I don't see any point arguing when I found your videos completely enjoyable. Very nice compilation.
Looking at the finish of the final few aircraft and they look fast. Smooth clean lines, tight panel gaps, efficient looking air intakes and radiators. The comparison to some earlier noted aircraft and their rough appearance gives the indication that their airspeeds may have been fudged a little.
Keep in mind that drag increases exponentially with speed, so it might have been a much bigger problem to the top aircraft than to the lower ones even if the speed difference is not that large
I actually didn't expect to see the Ki-83 in the list mainly due to lack of knowledge about it. I knew it was an impressive twin engine fighter but hearing that it only needed better fuel to go that much faster is insane
Hey Ed...Great video and the commentary is spot on. Always interested in War Birds from that era. What made this much much more interesting were the pics of the P51's . Of those displayed, on the port side fuselage is a a "fighting bird" ( Baltimore Oriole) with boxing gloves on. They were from the Maryland Air National Guard fighter group. I love these!!! Reason being my father flew these and I recall at family gatherings at Harbor Field, MD I would see these birds. Even have a photo of dad sitting in the cockpit of one. We may have been the poorest family on the block but dad flew fighters!!! Many Thanks!
Wikipedia: With a top speed of 730 to 775 km/h (depending on the version), the Do 335 was the fastest series-built piston engine aircraft in the world. (1943-May 45).
The aircraft shown at 5.28 isn't a Tempest II, it's an experimental version (note 'P' for prototype on the fuselage) of the Sabre-powered Tempest V, with an annular radiator, possibly inspired by the Fw190D. Note the Sabre's exhaust stacks. This was an attempt to reduce drag by eliminating the chin radiator and it seemed to work: top speed increased by about 15mph (24kph). Despite this it didn't make it into production.
Impossible to answer due to the vast number of variables involved, such as…fuel load, weapons load, prop used, air temperature, altitude, wind speed, humidity, turbulence, levelness of flight, engine tune, fuel octane, oil viscosity, to name a few.
Btw I was told at the mosquito museum now new Mosquitos are possible a serious attempt is being made to build a hornet as the moulds exist. Imagine that at an airshow!
Wrong I believe there is a company in new Zealand that is building new mosquito's from the original moulds.and fabricating or getting original parts to build new ones.should be on line somewhere.
You're getting into territory covered by Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles channel. Any time spent on his videos will prove that any answer to "What was the fastest X" should start with "That depends..."
except that there is no way to verify any of these numbers by simply referencing random books. Who knows where some of these numbers actually came from. the debate will never end without actual test data. and even then, one-off prototypes are a far cry from a production aircraft. often times the prototypes didn't even have full armament, ammo, etc. And since the 505 number is pure heresay, and could never be replicated (never mind the engine blew up shortly after the supposed 505 run).
@@SoloRenegade This exactly. I would simply ignore any figure from secondary literature unless referenced to a primary source. Which none of these aviation history books ever do.
I believe only aircraft with a combat record in WW2 should be considered for this list. Experimental aircraft are just that, experimental and improved aircraft that flew after WW2 ended clearly cannot be considered.
I’m somewhat in agreement about experimental testbed aircraft, but the “combat record in WW2” requirement doesn’t make sense. This video is about piston fighters generally, not specifically WW2 piston fighters. You aren’t asking for a slight change in criteria, but for a different list altogether. Postwar piston powered fighters definitely do belong in lists of piston powered fighters, considering they are, well, piston powered and fighters.
That's it, now we've done it. We showed Ed that the best way to make more interesting material to watch is by encouraging him to make controversial claims and wait for the comment section to explode. Get ready for the next one, I'm sure it's going to be even bigger than this excellent video.
Given that to be a fighter pane you needed guns and ammo, plus fuel for operational sorties, were all the top speeds done with so equipped aircraft, if not, then I'd quibble about any that weren't.
It's the same today. There are people out there who genuinely believe an F-15 can hit m2.5....in reality with a basic air to air load no F-15 will exceed m1.8 with the burners lit...and you can count your time at that speed in seconds as the fuel gauges whirr down to zero...
Good list Ed thanks! Also thanks for including Shinden...I agree it “doesn’t count” but I just love the thing 😊..just like the MB5 & maybe the cac-15...certainty in my favourite “what if” aircraft( if they could have been developed further)
One detail missing,- how long could the fighters maintain their top speed? The Ta 152 could run at full speed for 20-30 minutes,- most of the competition only for a few minutes,- making the number unusable.
But, ironically, mostly down low instead of way up high. Grab a copy of Willy Reschkes Book or search him on UA-cam - the Ta 152 in which he shot down 2 Yak-9 near Berlin was exactly the on shown in Farnborough 1946.
In regards to the Republic XP-72 Ultrabolt prototypes, these aircraft were never flown to their top speeds. During the flight test program, the top speed was restricted to 490 mph for fear that the experimental Pratt & Whitney R-4360-13 Wasp Major engine would catch on fire. The XP-72's estimated top speed was actually 504 mph. There was a production order for 100 P-72's. In its production format, the P-72 was to have an estimated top speed of 540 mph. This is according to William M. Bodie who thoroughly researched the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt aircraft more extensively than any other military aviation author. If you read his book "Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, From Seversky to Victory," it just may open your eyes on what the Ultrabolt's potential really was. Another great book on German aircraft by author William Green is "Warplanes of the Third Reich." It has the top speed of the Dornier Do 335 Pfeil at 474 mph. for the high speed bomber version fighter.
Worth mentioning a Wright-Patterson test flight of a captured intact FW-190D postwar, which is similar in construction quality in the late war as the Ta-152 examples remarked in particular the shocking build quality due to unwilling workers at the labour camps assembling them. The example obtained, despite actually being used in service was so poorly constructed it was considered unsafe and unairworthy and could not be flight tested until it was completely disassembled and rebuilt, properly fastened and adhering to the most basic safety requirements, which it did not originally. Once this procedure was undertaken it was tentatively flown by a test pilot whose report is in the public record, his name eludes me presently. He said it was horrible. It felt and sounded like it was going to fall apart. At full throttle he couldn't stand the heat in the cockpit and the deafening noise. The panels didn't fit properly and there were nasty draughts, terrible vibrations, it wasn't sealed at all and he found it surprising it even flew without simply breaking apart mid flight. In this rotten condition it matched the performance of a perfectly assembled P-51D Mustang in all respects and was easily an even match for one in combat. This completely astonished him, for he wondered just how good would this aircraft be if it had been built to the same qualitive standards instead of those dictated by Germany's late war industrial situation. In direct comparison he said the Mustang felt like a Cadillac whilst the Focke Wulf was a hot rod in a farmer's shed, yet their performance was unquestionably comparable in this condition. All told, the FW-190D was therefore the more potent platform as they stood, although in most historical cases a P-51D would probably get the better of one circumstantially every time. There is much more than all the assumptions people make when it comes to the performance reputations of wartime fighter aircraft. Also, I'm sure you've been corrected but the "Yak-3M" is firstly a fiction and secondly never had a VK-108 it was a VK-107 and in fact this was the intended engine for the basic Yak-3 from initial production. This was because it is just a cut down Yak-1B with a VK-107 instead of an M105PF2 engine, but as it turned out the VK-107 wouldn't be ready for mass installation until 1945 and the Yak-3 was already earmarked for the Guards squadrons by 44 as a special interceptor so they went ahead with the M105 motor from the Yak-1B making it virtually indistinguishable, the performance difference mainly being the M105 was derivative of a license built 1939 Hispano-Suiza and the VK107 was an all Russian evolution of the same design with newer, wartime performance requirements, mainly at high altitude and for higher quality fuel availability. The VK-107 was designed for this, the M-105 was just adapted for this, so not up to scratch by the late war. This meant the Yak-3 wasn't really an improvement on a late Yak-1 at all, other than their common engine had been gradually refined by 1944 and fuel improved. The oil cooler was moved from the chin to smaller twin wing root ones and it had a new radio, that's about it since 1941. That newer engine, which never materialised was everything. Now, the Yak-9 is a different story often confused in the west in theme with the Yak-3, a completely different aircraft and that one was designed for the M105P as a basic fighter and then to absorb the VK-107 as an improved version of the basic fighter. And this became the Yak-9P Americans met during the Korean war, basically comparable to a SeaFury down low and a Mustang up high. But the Yak-3 never actually got the VK-107, despite being the fighter design that was built around this engine. It wound up with the M-105PF2 during the war and the Yak-9P was used postwar due to its easier pilot handling, so the Yak-3 had been abandoned by the time numbers of the VK-107 engine were available in 45-46. There was no Yak-3P nor Yak-3M, there was just the Yak-3 and it had the old engine from 1941 with some improvements to it and ended its life with WW2 unlike the Yak-9. Also it never, ever had a 23mm cannon. It always had a single Beresin and a single ShVAK, at the time of production they were 12.7mm and 20mm respectively. The Yak-9P however differed. The Beresin was, by mid-45 rechambered for 20mm and the heavy VYa-23mm ground attack cannon was replaced by a cut down version of the Nudelman 37mm anti-tank gun which could substitute the ShVAK 20mm motor gun of wartime use. The single 50-cal and 20mm hub guns of the Yak could be upgunned to a 20mm and 23mm cannons for the same weight cost, at dramatically increased firepower basically. But you wouldn't see this in a Yak-3, you saw it in a Korean era Yak-9P along with the VK-107 engine. So the Yak-3 never really existed as intended, except on paper and in practise wound up just a slight production improvement of the wartime Yak-1B which was actually a remarkable fighter, whilst the Yak-9 which was originally an adaptation of the Yak-UTI tandem combat trainer airframe actually completely took over the fighter role before the war was over and so took the reigns postwar into the jet age. It was the Yak-9P which wound up with the equipment the Yak-3 was supposed to pioneer as a new fighter variant, the Yak-9 which basically replaced the Yak-1B during the war and the Yak-7 which competed so effectively as a trainer-improvisation against the Yak-1 original fighter because it was more stable and easier to fly, yet had about the same performance with slightly less inherent instability. So a very good pilot would be better in a Yak-1, but an average pilot was much better off in a Yak-7. So is the same between Yak-3 and Yak-9 for flying qualities. Hence Yak-3 was a special interceptor to be used only by Guards squadrons, and then this luxury was downgraded in its production trim during WW2 in favour of Yak-9 production and then postwar shelved for an advanced Yak-9 version completely. Might be also noteworthy to mention, in an effort to show communist solidarity the Free French Normandie Niemen squadron was given their choice of any fighter in the Soviet arsenal, including lend lease models and they chose the Yak-3. Partly because it was the hardest to fly, partly because nothing on the planet could outmanoeuvre one in the hands of an expert pilot. When Alexander Pokryshkin was given the same option he picked the Bell P-39 lend lease aircraft. He said it was because it had the most luxurious pilot equipment and excellent heating, but also because his first choice, the La-5 was not up to an adequate development standard at the time.
The fastest production line aircraft of WWI (piston engine) in level flight was the F4U Corsair. The fastest in a dive was the P-38 Lightning. What made the P-51 so good was a combination of its range which exceeded any other fighter / escort, while its speed and maneuverability were just a wee bit below the P-38 and F4U.
I think you may have missed the BF109K. I've seen several figures over the years of around 440 mph for the K4. It was a lot slower with the underwing cannon pods - about 410 mph, I believe - but while they were normally fitted in service, they weren't integral to the aircraft and could be removed.
I've been thinking the same. But you're making a tiny mistake: K-4, the only version of K to see service, and analogue to G-6AS, G-14AS and G-10AS - was never fitted with gun pods ! They were designed for high altitude performance and speed to which gun pods were contrary. Prove me wrong, but I haven't seen a single photo of one of the mentioned 109s with gun pods. Centerline drop tank or one bomb it was. Edit: 109K-6 had two 30mm underwing gun pods. Probably a handful still saw service. Nevertheless, K-4 and the AS versions are the ones we focus on, and they were "clean".
@@ottovonbismarck2443 You're quite right. The gun pod appears to have been an option for the K-4 as the R-6 Rüstsatz kit, but I can't find any pictures with it fitted. Interesting - I might dig into it a bit more.
@dirtyoldcommie814 Are you sure there were any K6 built? Sources seem to be conflicting, some say that none were built ,others that there were a handful of them.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 And fact that she wasn't preserved as a museum ship is a fucking travesty (Same for the WWII-era USS Enterprise)....she should be there on display next to HMS Victory.
Great video. Would like to note that you said (referring to J7W Shinden) no pusher type piston engined aircraft ever made it to production. While not the fastest by any standard, the SAAB J21A entered production in 1945!
VK-108 from that experimental Yak-3 had lifespan goal set at 25 hours but in reality could survive half of that time at best. Good old Hispano-Suiza 12Y was far beyond it's limit there, and soviets had no technology to make it work. Also, SAAB 21 flew 2 years before J7W and was adopted in 45. And if we go back to WW I era, push-prop fighters were much more common.
There's something wrong with youtube's clock. I watched the 22-minute video start to finish with no fast forwards, reloaded the page... and it's still "uploaded 16 minutes ago".
i had William Greens first book. You left out the K4. Wow. Listed at 452 in his book and that was most repeated number. 440 is also a number i've seen often in the last 50 years. He listed the Ta152 at 472mph btw. It seems most English speakers underestimate the K4, until they try to outclimb one. i would really just count the fighters before Japan fell, ie during the war. After that you have prototype hot rods with 150 octane fuel.
A first hand story told by my father. RAF - Chief Technician: US Sabres arrived at a British Airfield & Hornets were sent up to escort them. Thinking they might be embarrassed by a demonstration of jet power from the new Sabres, the RAF pilots applied extra throttle, expecting the Sabres to simply overtake them. Instead, the Hornets blasted right by & kept going. Speaking to the US pilots after they landed, they revealed they were at max power just trying to keep up with Hornets.
This video shows how piston power reached it’s peak during and after WW II. Then jets took over. It surprised me that the F86 flew in the late 1940’s along with the P80. Interesting video
Howard Hughes' Me 262 was actually barred from participating in a air race which the F-86 won. I've heard it was due to worries of it showing up the new jets, which seems unlikely to me
@@robertdragoff6909 the man was rich and was apparently starting to lose it around the end of the war. During Hughes' first flight at the controls of a Constellation, (with Kelly Johnson as flight engineer) he tested the stall and recovery by putting the gear down, dropping all flaps, shoving the throttles to full, and pulling the yoke as hard as he could. Johnson said that was the only time he ever saw indicated airspeed read zero while airborne, and was floating on the ceiling while shouting to push over. After that, Kelly refused to ever fly with Hughes again
Another great video Ed. I do think it would have been interesting to see what the Pfiel could have done with some really good quality fuel, exactly the sort of thing the Luftwaffe was lacking by the late war period. However, if the pilot got into difficulties, exiting the plane in an emergency was, well, a bit hit & miss. Apologies if this has already been covered. Eric Brown said it had, quote, ‘The most complicated system of safety devices ever employed to get a pilot clear in an emergency.’ Unquote. 1/ Press a button to blow the rear prop off. 2/ Press a second button to blow the top fin and rudder off. 3/ Press third button to arm the ejector seat. 4/ Manually eject the canopy by gripping two red levers at the front of the hood & heaving with all his strength. 5/ Squeeze a trigger on the seat arm-rest to activate the ejection seat. Unfortunately, step 4/ had a few issues which could prevent step 5/. On at least two crashes, the pilot was recovered from the aircraft ~ without one or both arms. Upon heaving on the two red levers to jettison the canopy, it was snatched away so fast that the pilot had no time to let go of the levers ~ and their arm (or arms) went with it. NOT a nice way to go!
Me too. It was the one they decided to keep building after the war and budget cuts because it had it all.not just speed. And was the coolest looking. Frontline fighter into Korea until the jet program got on its feet
9:00 462 (actually 463) mph at 37,000 feet with MW-50 boost was the speed of the Ta 152 C-3 version which may not have entered service. The H-1 (confirmed by Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles as the fastest piston-engine fighter of the war), had a top speed of 472mph at 41,000 feet with GM-1 and MW-50 boost. It can do this for a full 30 minutes while the P-47M (fastest Allied piston-engine fighter of the war) with 150 octane fuel could manage identical speed but for only about 5 minutes at full emergency power but at 11,000 feet lower.
There was a version of the Do 335 called the Do 635, one of a kind if I remember correctly (I hope). It was single seat with a bubble top canopy similar to a Tempest, P-51D or P-47D with an even sleeker fuselage than the Do 335. It was allegedly measured at 835 km/h TAS at the Erprobungsstelle Rechlin, I think in April 1945. I can’t remember the altitude, but it was very high because I just remember me wondering that it could climb that high let alone fly that fast that high. There was an article about this in a German aeronautical magazine called “Flug Revue” in the 1980ies. In the article there was a picture of the aircraft and a picture of the barograph readout. The guy who wrote the article was Hans Redemann, a noted Luftwaffe historian back then. I just hope I didn’t post any nonsense. It’s been decades I read this.
The 635 was a proposed variant design. A wind tunnel model was constructed and tested, with a cockpit mock up being as far as it got. The project aim was to test a prototype in late 1945 however it was cancelled in February of that year.
My criterion for determining the fastest WWII fighter is that it must have at least achieved what we call today initial operational capability during the war. That excludes fighters like the Hornet, the F4U-5 and all prototype and preproduction aircraft. The contenders come down to the the TA-152, P-47M and P-51H. I usually say the P-51H by virtue of its large production order and its deployment for the upcoming invasion of Japan. However since the H never saw combat the winner is the P-47M.
You are a brave man taking on the aircraft community with this comparison We all have our favourite and can see how subjective speeds can be I personally think it shame that some of the one off's did not see action MB 5 XP 72 etc weren't developed more great upload 5hough 😊😊😊😊
All this proves is that far too many middle aged men played top trumps as children and that this kind of debate has nothing whatsoever to do with history.
Level flight is good and all... but when you gotta go fast, you use everything at your disposal. And absolutely nothing can fall out of the sky faster than the P-47. I do recall, that it was either an N or M that broke the sound barrier in a dive. They could catch the 262, often to the incredulous surprise of the Luftwaffa pilots, as long as they had altitude to use.
Wow, a lot of interesting planes and information to see here, and I appreciate the way you use imperial measures along with with metric (I'm American so that helps... no conversion calculations, my mathematics are not my forte... kinda scary for an aspiring pilot, right haha) That makes it great for everyone to watch no matter where you come from. Great vid thanks for the upload!
Mr. Nash, you must be either a masochist or a sadistic gadfly. Either way this video is sure to send the comments flying. Nicely done, sir, nicely done.
My father was a fighter pilot in WW II flying everything from the P-40's through the P-51e. In a dive, the P-47 could achieve compressability, a phenomenon that super sonic jets had to overcome as well. He was one if not the first to fly one through that dangerous phenomenon as a flight instructor. But in his mind, the P-51e that he flew into the record books at gunnery at Myrtle Beach prior to being assigned to the first jet fighter group ever formed was, in level flight, unmatched. Sadly he's no longer with us, but I'll stand with his well-researched position.
Wheraboos (ostensibly anime nerds who worship nazi WW2 weapons, uniforms, etc.) are a sad lot. There is definitely a huge overlap of these folks and 4chan incels. It is simultaneously funny and sad.
LOL I am once again corrected, so well done to everyone who pointed out that the Saab 21 is a great example of a pusher type that did get into service. 😁
👍😂🍾🥂
ua-cam.com/video/kdOPBP9vuZA/v-deo.html
For a country that never does war, Sweden has some damn good kit
@@sr7129 We do war!
@@donquixote1502
Against whom?
Me163 by miles. Amazing what that little prop on the nose could push out ROFL - Great video 🙂
It’s not for prop planes but piston engined. That’s why your joke didn’t work.
@@Frankie5Angels150
G'day,
WRONG...
The Jokularis jokulii
Hinged on the point that the
Me-163,
The Flame-farting
Rocket-powered little
Flying Flea...
Had not
Got
Any
Propeller at all...
The
Humour of the
Suggestion lies in the
Rotational Airscrew Array
Referred to having been in fact a
Free-Air
Wind-Turbine...;
Direct-driving a
Direct Current
Electric
Generator.
Literally, the
Joke hinges on the
Factoid of the
Me-163's "Propeller"
NOT actually being an
Airscrew
At all, not
At all..., not even a
Little bit.
Perhaps...(?)
Ye should be considering
Making some kind of Video Response,
Asserting the
Me-163
To be
The
World's
Fastest
WINDMILL...?
Or, would that cause you
Problems rooted in
Pedantry...; & protesting that
The Turbine on the '163
Failed to grind any Grist into
Flour..., & nor did it
Pump any
Water.
And
Yet...
It was
INDEED the only
Free-Air
Windmill on the
Planet, which was
Designed to operate with
560 MPH of
Airflow streaming back through it's
Disc...;
Being pushed through the
Atmosphere by
Superheated
Steam, outgassing from the
Walther Rocket's
Decomposition/Reaction
Chamber's
Nozzle.
Onwards &
Upwards...
(Until a rough landing fractures a Fuelpipe and the Pilot is chemically
DISSOLVED in his seat,
Before being able to
Unstrap &
Disembark).
They wasn't considered the
Death Or Glory
Mob,
For nuthin' ;
Y'see (?) !
Such is life,
Have a good one.
;-p
Ciao !
Wrong emoji... 😉😜
@@Frankie5Angels150 It's a JOKE for F's sake!
The 163 had a tiny little airscrew in the nose.
I think it was for driving the electrics or something, I've forgotten.
@@WarblesOnALot Correct.
I'd say you showed saintlike restraint, amazing patience and the utmost tolerance in another stellar video. Thanks.
I second that. Very good video. Fair, balanced and well done.
Oh how I love it when an Ed Nash video lands.
Ed’s the best!
definately, he never overshoots the airfield...
The Christmas Bullet is a clear contender, in my opinion. It exited flight testing so quickly, hardly anyone noticed it whiz by.
The Christmas Bullet was clearly the fastest plane of its day. Of course that was sans wings and in a dive.
@@mpetersen6It was also the most maneuverable. That is, if you count maneuverable as being able to move the most, and you count wing buffeting so bad the wings _flap_ as movement.
Yet not one fighter could outrun a bullet 😢 Says Baron Von Ricky Bobbie 😂
I think you are confusing the planes top speed, with the top speed of the test pilots arms as he realises hes doomed while the wings race him to the ground separately
This is the best day ever, Ed puts a video out on fast piston engine fighters and starts with the XP47J. Anything P47 is my favourite, automatically.
Me too🍻
Me three!
As soon as you cited Aircraft/Warplanes of the Third Reisch by William Green, I grabbed my copy, turned to the Dornier 335's entry, and can confirm that Green claims the maximum speed of the Do335A-1 to be 474 m.p.h at 21,325 ft
The video starts off with Republic's claim of top speed for the P-47J versus actual tests at Wright-Patterson. For the Do-335 the same situation exists. Check the Rechlin tests for the tested max speed.
@@JustMe-g3e A models differed from the V testbeds. I think that this confuses most people.
Don’t think there is any definitive accurate source for top speed. As such it will be impossible to determine which piston engine WW2 plane was the fastest. So with that said I still consider the Pfeil to be the record holder - but that’s just my opinion.
@@daszieher I wasn't saying the numbers were necessarily accurate, just that I have a copy of the book Ed wasn't able to, and I can confirm the claimed figure is in there
Keep in mind that this was only with the boost running and on much lower octane fuel than the USA or UK were using, unfortunately the one that was tested in the USA we never got the test data from it.
There is a note saying this was a 30 second duration boost which got it to 474mph in some of the notes from other sources that Green referenced.
If we ever can get hold of the US Air Force tests with the US higher octane fuels on he one they had we might be able to put this to rest, some US pilots think that with the correct high end fuel it probably could break 500mph but a is debatable as 89 versus 100 octane fuel is a big jump but unlikely to be that big but with the 100/130 octane fuel there is some chance they might have been right during boost (going from 89 to 130 is a BIG jump…).
I enjoyed that. I had the wonderful experience of standing next to Yale English professor Norwood Russell Hanson’s F8f Bearcat. He kept it at Tweed New Haven Airport in Connecticut, USA. It was painted black with white eagle claws painted on that long legged landing gear. Flying magazine did an article on it; and stripped of guns and armor, it was reported to go 500 mph. When it entered the pattern it sounded like a jet, beautiful. As a kid it was a wonderful time. We would ride our bikes to the airport and sit on an old picnic table outside the FBO and just take it all in. Unfortunately, Hanson flew the ‘Cat into a Pennsylvania hillside in bad weather. Both pilot and aircraft died.
Damn. That's a hell of a punchline 😢
Ed. I think you hit gold with this one . And it's a comfort to know the Spiteful was the top dog . Thanks Ed . (Of course we both know someone will always contest the claim!)
It was #2, not the top dog.
@@wymple09 top toothless dog
Ed, that was an excellent review of piston engine aircraft. Excellent job.
the army tested the xp-47 J to ONLY 484 MPH ! wow thats still pretty crazy
Any Jug design deserves a second look. Considering how much firepower the beast can carry.
and pretty slow, so not the #1
It's definitely possible the 505mph is legit. Air conditions can account for the discrepancy. When you look at the Reno Air Race results, planes that do over 500mph one year can struggle to hit 470mph the next, due to what's going on in the air (temp, humidity, wind, etc).
@@johnnycab8986 no, it is not legit.
The XP-47J blew up a brand new engine making the run, and it was not recorded with official instruments, nor was it witnessed by anyone other than the pilot. it could not be replicated with all further attempts falling WELL SHORT of the claim (more than 20mph short, consistently).
the official top speed of the XP-47J,and the highest Recorded top sped of the XP-47J is the 484mph speed.
The pilot likely over-revved the engine in a shallow power dive, and dives don't count regarding top speed. And this subsequently caused the engine to fail.
In NO WAY does the 505mph Claim by teh pilot count. NO record keeping body would ever accept that as a record by any stretch of the imagination.
P-47 fanboys just have to keep coping.
@@SoloRenegade bro, chill. No one is taking this anywhere as seriously as you. Weirdo.
I love these super prop designs. Its also pretty neat just to see how long the idea of trying to get a propeller driven aircraft to go even faster stuck around for. With stuff like the thunderscreach and tu-95 later coming around.
Maybe one day you could make a video about the fastest military propeller driven aircraft.
Here, here!
Be aware that both the Thunderscreech and the TU 95 were/are turboprops, and not "piston driven". But yes both the defunct thunderscreech and the still flying TU 95 used props.
@@andrewhammel8218 that's why I said "propeller driven" rather than piston engined.
11:35 Slight correction: Sweden did adopt a push design in the SAAB J 21
Also the Fokker D.XXIII was going to be adopted. However, the German invasion of the Netherlands had something to say about that
@@mustang5132 Nein?
Only because they got the final home assembly stage wrong.
With 500+ built, I'd have to go for the P-51H as the fastest 'fighter'- as you said, prototypes are almost always lighter and cosseted in some way that makes the top speed unrealistic in service. Other then that, it seems to me that the Spiteful F Mk 16 probably has the most reliably recorded highest speed of an aircraft designed to be a fighter.
“Spiteful”?!? Sounds nasty!
@@Frankie5Angels150, despite its undoubted hot-rod status, the Supermarine Spiteful rather ironically, had some incredibly spiteful low speed handling issues........
Yep, I'm happy with this answer as the P51h had already been received by some units before the surrender of the Japanese in the Pacific
Thats just it isnt it, the P-51H was actually made in numbers to be useful, not some Japanese pipe dream or some crazed drug addled dream of the Nazis. If you go down that road and say actually used in WW2 in numbers to be useful then Bear Cat, Mustang, Tempest and maybe Tiger Cat.
the P-47 prototype also blew up its motor getting that fast, and never repeated anything remotely close to that speed ever again.
Hmm, perhaps for a more complete info, a collab with Greg's Airplane and Automobile channel. That guy gots lots ofr performance charts for different altitudes and manifold pressure.
Greg's da man!
@@garynew9637 agreed👍
LOL. selective data and lacking operational context, but he's good at telling you what you want to hear.
Yea Gregg has the Corsair doing 480mph and he has the charts to back it up!
@@351linzdoctor LOL
It's such a complex and difficult field, the rate of change was insane in the 1930-1945.
Great video, love it
03:48 01. XP-47J
04:04 19. Grumman Bearcat F8F-1
04:34 18. Grumman Tigercat F7F-3
04:58 17. Hawker Tempest 2
05:35 16. CAC Ca-16 Kangaroo
06:10 15. Supermarine Spitfire Mk.21
06:34 14. North American F-82G
07:07 13. Martin Baker MB.5 / Hawker Sea Fury / FMA I.Ae30
08:38 12. Focke Wulf Ta 152H
09:42 11. Yakovlev Yak-3M-108
10:37 10. Kyushu J7W Shinden
12:05 09. F4U-5 Corsair and P-57M
13:32 08. De Havilland Hornet F.Mk.3
14:03 07. Mitsubishi Ki-83
15:18 06. Dornier Do 335
17:37 05. Hawker Fury Mk.1 / Supermarine Spiteful F.Mk.14
18:45 04 North American P.-51H Mustang
20:04 03. Republic XP-72
20:53 02. Supermarine Spiteful F.16
Thanks for doing that!
Some great aircraft in that list. Well done!!
Ed: 'Anyone for tennis', while rolling a hand-grenade (minus pin) into the room 🤣🤣🤣
But in all seriousness, a well-researched and thoroughly enjoyable run through the archives - thank you 😀
Kudos for taking this subject on. The claims for any supposed fastest will find it difficult to escape suspicion for one reason or another, I think we can say that any aircraft that could reach 450 plus was an exceptional machine.
I'd love if Eric Brown was still alive to pitch in to these comments: "Flew that. Flew that one. Flew that one too, and that one... Went to fly that one in 1945, but the only remaining engine at the airfield blew up as I was taxiing...." Etc. 🙂
Haha
VERY NICE discussion!! After the war, Wright Field tested just about every airplane that the Axis powers had come up with, and YEARS AGO I came across a website that had many of their typewriter-written reports scanned and available. I cannot remember if the Do335 was included, but I would be very curious to see what their figures were on it (I cannot seem to locate the old website through any search engines). I am a former military pilot and (Heaven help me) retired air traffic controller, and a point that seems to allude most non-pilots is that "top speeds" are typically TRUE AIRSPEEDS after a myriad of corrections have been applied to them, and true airspeeds are very dependent upon the ALTITUDE (mostly temperature, but also atmospheric pressure) that the measurements are taken at. The thing is, around WWII, there wasn't really any universal convention on how to arrive at the calculated speeds. For instance, the more advanced models of the F4U Corsair had published "top speeds" well in excess of 400mph, and the Grumman F6F Hellcat was only supposed to be capable of around 360mph. At one point in the war, the Department of the Navy insisted that Grumman and Vought swap some fighters, in the hope that each company could improve their own fighter by being exposed to the capabilities of the other's design. Famed Grumman test pilot Corky Meyer claimed that, against the F4U that they took on for testing, that head to head, the poor "360mph" Hellcat could easily "walk away" from the "faster" F4U at just about every altitude!! And just the basics of flight testing in the 1940s was an EVOLVING discipline! So, your task becomes even more daunting, just because the observations-made-specifications, at that time, were anything but a standard practice!! And just one other point....the fighters of WWII RARELY RACED EACH OTHER!! Aerial combat is VERY RARELY done at any airplane's top speed!!! If anything, dogfighting is very often nearest the opposing airplanes' STALL SPEED, as they try to outmaneuver each other. Where a "top speed contest" comes into play are basically when an approaching fighter is attempting to CATCH an opponent to try to shoot them down, or as being able to determine who can successfully break off the fight and escape to fight another day, with the faster ship having a distinct advantage. YOU REALLY DID A NICE JOB with the discussion with the information you used, but the discussion, honestly, is SO VERY VAGUE with the data we have available to us at this point in history. The only REAL WAY to determine the answers would be to have ONE test and evaluation team fly EACH of the airplanes in the running, using a very precise set of testing criteria, and OBVIOUSLY that's just no longer possible (that's why I think the Wright Field flight test data would be SO HELPFUL here). LOVE YOUR STUFF CHUM!!!
Well said. I think it's also important to remember that fighter aircraft aren't boxers who weight in and then square off in a ring. A fighter may excel in one mission set yet utterly fail in another (e.g. P-38 and Brewster Buffalo in PTO vice ETO). Anecdotes from the era (even from trained test pilots) are often fraught with bias and inconsistent baselines (armor/armament/fuel load/octane level/etc). "Fast" doesn't take into account acceleration, angle of attack (which increases the effect of gravity) nor the effect of speed on axis of control. Too many variables.
Now that you’ve mentioned the “what if?” scenario, I imagined an alternate universe where Rolls-Royce got their shit together and actually got the Crecy to be put in a test bed. It would most likely go into a Spitfire airframe with a nasty five-bladed prop and a complex extractor system to squeeze every last bit from the two-stroke’s massive exhaust gas production. It would also definitely be ridiculously loud, as engineers noted when they first tested the Crecy.
Consider me very impressed with this tier list! Thanks for setting things right!
I feel like the spit would've had an airframe that was far too light. It probably would have been a tempest variant.
This is a tough one as there were so many low production models like the super Corsair, seafury, bearcat, etc.
At 15,000 ft., at 20,000 ft., at 26,000 ft., at 30,000 ft.,........ . Apples and oranges. How fast were all these planes at ,say, 200 ft.?
Are they low production? Over 800 Sea Fury were built...1200 Bearcat...
@@spikespa5208 This isn't ever a very good measurement due to how piston engine aircraft function and how fuel mixtures and turbochargers worked. Most aircraft were literally not designed to go particularly fast at 200 feet.
All you need is a two speed blower thats designed to kick in at high altitude, but instead kick it in to high blower down on the deck. Then spray water/methanol for ADI. Then run the RPM up to the maximum permissible dive over-rev speed of 3,400-3,500rpm. Then get a larger propeller with wider chord blades and cut it down to a length short enough so that most of the propeller remains transonic or subsonic. Offer a maniac a chance to fly it and put just enough fuel in the tanks to fly 50 miles, plus 15 minutes. Not hard. Just takes money and effort.
@@WereScrib Well, then pick an altitude. But make it the same for every plane. This "I'm faster at 10,000 ft." " _But I'm faster at 30,000 ft._ " is bogus.
"Pusher designs never adopted".... Ummmm.... SAAB J-21 anyone?
Good point! Have to get around to that aircraft one day.
It was converted to jet power later on….
How about a video on planes that started out piston powered and were converted to jet power….
I.E. the flying wing!
Hi Ed.another great video as usual....ever consider doing a video on early jet trainers...be they European American or Russian?
If it never fought anyone, it isn’t really a fighter.
@@Frankie5Angels150 Sooooo... it's a "lover"?!?!? ;)
What’s crazy about the fury 1 is that we only have data for its top speed without 150 octane fuel. With no 150 grade fuel it had a top speed of 482mph while making 3,055hp. With 150 grade fuel it’s engine was rated for 3,500hp, but we have no top speeds recorded for this plane in that configuration
It was fastest no.dohbt about it.
Makes you wonder what YAK's could have done with good fuel. The Soviets "complained" that the P40 needed 100 octane fuel
When I was in tech school, we had a Sea Fury park in our hangar for the night on ferry from an airshow. The following morning (prob as a treat more than anything) they did a power check on our apron with the aircraft tethered to a forged steel ring tied into the concrete.
It was a rush for sure....and actually bent the ring.
The amount of power available almost instantaneously to a single operator blew my mind.
This was very entertaining, but at the same time, precise, thorough, and compelling. Well done.
SAAB 21 was a push design that made it to service. twin boom push config. over 200 built later fitted with a jet.
The Me262 started out with a piston engine too…
CAC - 15 Kangaroo was my guess, at least as a testbed winner….. a surprising list for me. Well done providing this really informative video!
Your speeds are quite different than many other publications I have read many written by well know experts in that period in aviation. With that said I don't see any point arguing when I found your videos completely enjoyable. Very nice compilation.
Looking at the finish of the final few aircraft and they look fast. Smooth clean lines, tight panel gaps, efficient looking air intakes and radiators. The comparison to some earlier noted aircraft and their rough appearance gives the indication that their airspeeds may have been fudged a little.
Keep in mind that drag increases exponentially with speed, so it might have been a much bigger problem to the top aircraft than to the lower ones even if the speed difference is not that large
Much awaited, much appreciated excellent insights as always from you
I actually didn't expect to see the Ki-83 in the list mainly due to lack of knowledge about it. I knew it was an impressive twin engine fighter but hearing that it only needed better fuel to go that much faster is insane
Hey Ed...Great video and the commentary is spot on. Always interested in War Birds from that era. What made this much much more interesting were the pics of the P51's . Of those displayed, on the port side fuselage is a a "fighting bird" ( Baltimore Oriole) with boxing gloves on. They were from the Maryland Air National Guard fighter group. I love these!!! Reason being my father flew these and I recall at family gatherings at Harbor Field, MD I would see these birds. Even have a photo of dad sitting in the cockpit of one. We may have been the poorest family on the block but dad flew fighters!!! Many Thanks!
I enjoy your videos because you inject your opinions (as well as humour) into the factual accounts. Thanks for what you're doing.
Wikipedia: With a top speed of 730 to 775 km/h (depending on the version), the Do 335 was the fastest series-built piston engine aircraft in the world. (1943-May 45).
The aircraft shown at 5.28 isn't a Tempest II, it's an experimental version (note 'P' for prototype on the fuselage) of the Sabre-powered Tempest V, with an annular radiator, possibly inspired by the Fw190D. Note the Sabre's exhaust stacks. This was an attempt to reduce drag by eliminating the chin radiator and it seemed to work: top speed increased by about 15mph (24kph). Despite this it didn't make it into production.
Impossible to answer due to the vast number of variables involved, such as…fuel load, weapons load, prop used, air temperature, altitude, wind speed, humidity, turbulence, levelness of flight, engine tune, fuel octane, oil viscosity, to name a few.
great work as always - thanks for all your work on this.
Btw I was told at the mosquito museum now new Mosquitos are possible a serious attempt is being made to build a hornet as the moulds exist. Imagine that at an airshow!
Yes there is a future Hornet project in NZ
Wrong I believe there is a company in new Zealand that is building new mosquito's from the original moulds.and fabricating or getting original parts to build new ones.should be on line somewhere.
@@andrewwaller5913 it's probably the place building mosquito's from scratch.
You're getting into territory covered by Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles channel. Any time spent on his videos will prove that any answer to "What was the fastest X" should start with "That depends..."
As a P-47 fan I can say I find no fault in your findings.😍
except that there is no way to verify any of these numbers by simply referencing random books. Who knows where some of these numbers actually came from. the debate will never end without actual test data. and even then, one-off prototypes are a far cry from a production aircraft. often times the prototypes didn't even have full armament, ammo, etc.
And since the 505 number is pure heresay, and could never be replicated (never mind the engine blew up shortly after the supposed 505 run).
@@SoloRenegade This exactly. I would simply ignore any figure from secondary literature unless referenced to a primary source. Which none of these aviation history books ever do.
Fantastic video, delivered with suitable grace, humility and humour. Well done.
I believe only aircraft with a combat record in WW2 should be considered for this list. Experimental aircraft are just that, experimental and improved aircraft that flew after WW2 ended clearly cannot be considered.
I’m somewhat in agreement about experimental testbed aircraft, but the “combat record in WW2” requirement doesn’t make sense. This video is about piston fighters generally, not specifically WW2 piston fighters. You aren’t asking for a slight change in criteria, but for a different list altogether. Postwar piston powered fighters definitely do belong in lists of piston powered fighters, considering they are, well, piston powered and fighters.
Well, the title does talk about the fastest ever, not the fastest to see service. He can always make another video with that topic
If you live in Palm Spring you can watch them flying around nearly every weekend. Just saw a P-47 for the first time today!
I like these videos where you explore a topic rather than a specific plane.
That's it, now we've done it. We showed Ed that the best way to make more interesting material to watch is by encouraging him to make controversial claims and wait for the comment section to explode.
Get ready for the next one, I'm sure it's going to be even bigger than this excellent video.
"What is the fastest piston fighter?" Has a simple, one-word answer: context.
Given that to be a fighter pane you needed guns and ammo, plus fuel for operational sorties, were all the top speeds done with so equipped aircraft, if not, then I'd quibble about any that weren't.
It's the same today. There are people out there who genuinely believe an F-15 can hit m2.5....in reality with a basic air to air load no F-15 will exceed m1.8 with the burners lit...and you can count your time at that speed in seconds as the fuel gauges whirr down to zero...
Love your content Ed! You and Rex's Hanger are some of my favorite late night channels!
Good list Ed thanks! Also thanks for including Shinden...I agree it “doesn’t count” but I just love the thing 😊..just like the MB5 & maybe the cac-15...certainty in my favourite “what if” aircraft( if they could have been developed further)
One detail missing,- how long could the fighters maintain their top speed?
The Ta 152 could run at full speed for 20-30 minutes,- most of the competition only for a few minutes,- making the number unusable.
The Ta152H had crazy speed at hight altitude and it actually saw action in the last weeks of the war.
But, ironically, mostly down low instead of way up high. Grab a copy of Willy Reschkes Book or search him on UA-cam - the Ta 152 in which he shot down 2 Yak-9 near Berlin was exactly the on shown in Farnborough 1946.
@@jorgsobota2228 Yeah he claims even the Tempest at low alt couldnt touch the Ta152H.
Love the half-chuckle at the end, Ed knows what he's done😅
You missed out the Airco DH.2 900mph @ sea level.
Oops my bad that should read 90mph :/ got he decimel point in the wrong place, easly done :)
decimal schmecimal ! I vote the DH. 2 as well !
Heh
The Airco certainly does deserve an honourable mention just because.
In regards to the Republic XP-72 Ultrabolt prototypes, these aircraft were never flown to their top speeds. During the flight test program, the top speed was restricted to 490 mph for fear that the experimental Pratt & Whitney R-4360-13 Wasp Major engine would catch on fire. The XP-72's estimated top speed was actually 504 mph. There was a production order for 100 P-72's. In its production format, the P-72 was to have an estimated top speed of 540 mph. This is according to William M. Bodie who thoroughly researched the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt aircraft more extensively than any other military aviation author. If you read his book "Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, From Seversky to Victory," it just may open your eyes on what the Ultrabolt's potential really was. Another great book on German aircraft by author William Green is "Warplanes of the Third Reich." It has the top speed of the Dornier Do 335 Pfeil at 474 mph. for the high speed bomber version fighter.
Sea Fury is badass… Corsair too
Worth mentioning a Wright-Patterson test flight of a captured intact FW-190D postwar, which is similar in construction quality in the late war as the Ta-152 examples remarked in particular the shocking build quality due to unwilling workers at the labour camps assembling them. The example obtained, despite actually being used in service was so poorly constructed it was considered unsafe and unairworthy and could not be flight tested until it was completely disassembled and rebuilt, properly fastened and adhering to the most basic safety requirements, which it did not originally. Once this procedure was undertaken it was tentatively flown by a test pilot whose report is in the public record, his name eludes me presently. He said it was horrible. It felt and sounded like it was going to fall apart. At full throttle he couldn't stand the heat in the cockpit and the deafening noise. The panels didn't fit properly and there were nasty draughts, terrible vibrations, it wasn't sealed at all and he found it surprising it even flew without simply breaking apart mid flight. In this rotten condition it matched the performance of a perfectly assembled P-51D Mustang in all respects and was easily an even match for one in combat. This completely astonished him, for he wondered just how good would this aircraft be if it had been built to the same qualitive standards instead of those dictated by Germany's late war industrial situation. In direct comparison he said the Mustang felt like a Cadillac whilst the Focke Wulf was a hot rod in a farmer's shed, yet their performance was unquestionably comparable in this condition. All told, the FW-190D was therefore the more potent platform as they stood, although in most historical cases a P-51D would probably get the better of one circumstantially every time.
There is much more than all the assumptions people make when it comes to the performance reputations of wartime fighter aircraft.
Also, I'm sure you've been corrected but the "Yak-3M" is firstly a fiction and secondly never had a VK-108 it was a VK-107 and in fact this was the intended engine for the basic Yak-3 from initial production. This was because it is just a cut down Yak-1B with a VK-107 instead of an M105PF2 engine, but as it turned out the VK-107 wouldn't be ready for mass installation until 1945 and the Yak-3 was already earmarked for the Guards squadrons by 44 as a special interceptor so they went ahead with the M105 motor from the Yak-1B making it virtually indistinguishable, the performance difference mainly being the M105 was derivative of a license built 1939 Hispano-Suiza and the VK107 was an all Russian evolution of the same design with newer, wartime performance requirements, mainly at high altitude and for higher quality fuel availability. The VK-107 was designed for this, the M-105 was just adapted for this, so not up to scratch by the late war. This meant the Yak-3 wasn't really an improvement on a late Yak-1 at all, other than their common engine had been gradually refined by 1944 and fuel improved. The oil cooler was moved from the chin to smaller twin wing root ones and it had a new radio, that's about it since 1941. That newer engine, which never materialised was everything.
Now, the Yak-9 is a different story often confused in the west in theme with the Yak-3, a completely different aircraft and that one was designed for the M105P as a basic fighter and then to absorb the VK-107 as an improved version of the basic fighter. And this became the Yak-9P Americans met during the Korean war, basically comparable to a SeaFury down low and a Mustang up high. But the Yak-3 never actually got the VK-107, despite being the fighter design that was built around this engine. It wound up with the M-105PF2 during the war and the Yak-9P was used postwar due to its easier pilot handling, so the Yak-3 had been abandoned by the time numbers of the VK-107 engine were available in 45-46. There was no Yak-3P nor Yak-3M, there was just the Yak-3 and it had the old engine from 1941 with some improvements to it and ended its life with WW2 unlike the Yak-9. Also it never, ever had a 23mm cannon. It always had a single Beresin and a single ShVAK, at the time of production they were 12.7mm and 20mm respectively. The Yak-9P however differed. The Beresin was, by mid-45 rechambered for 20mm and the heavy VYa-23mm ground attack cannon was replaced by a cut down version of the Nudelman 37mm anti-tank gun which could substitute the ShVAK 20mm motor gun of wartime use. The single 50-cal and 20mm hub guns of the Yak could be upgunned to a 20mm and 23mm cannons for the same weight cost, at dramatically increased firepower basically. But you wouldn't see this in a Yak-3, you saw it in a Korean era Yak-9P along with the VK-107 engine.
So the Yak-3 never really existed as intended, except on paper and in practise wound up just a slight production improvement of the wartime Yak-1B which was actually a remarkable fighter, whilst the Yak-9 which was originally an adaptation of the Yak-UTI tandem combat trainer airframe actually completely took over the fighter role before the war was over and so took the reigns postwar into the jet age. It was the Yak-9P which wound up with the equipment the Yak-3 was supposed to pioneer as a new fighter variant, the Yak-9 which basically replaced the Yak-1B during the war and the Yak-7 which competed so effectively as a trainer-improvisation against the Yak-1 original fighter because it was more stable and easier to fly, yet had about the same performance with slightly less inherent instability. So a very good pilot would be better in a Yak-1, but an average pilot was much better off in a Yak-7. So is the same between Yak-3 and Yak-9 for flying qualities. Hence Yak-3 was a special interceptor to be used only by Guards squadrons, and then this luxury was downgraded in its production trim during WW2 in favour of Yak-9 production and then postwar shelved for an advanced Yak-9 version completely.
Might be also noteworthy to mention, in an effort to show communist solidarity the Free French Normandie Niemen squadron was given their choice of any fighter in the Soviet arsenal, including lend lease models and they chose the Yak-3. Partly because it was the hardest to fly, partly because nothing on the planet could outmanoeuvre one in the hands of an expert pilot.
When Alexander Pokryshkin was given the same option he picked the Bell P-39 lend lease aircraft. He said it was because it had the most luxurious pilot equipment and excellent heating, but also because his first choice, the La-5 was not up to an adequate development standard at the time.
The Spiteful may also be the prettiest, piston-engined fighter ever.
Thanks for this, Ed.
☮
I think so too. An absolute beauty
The fastest production line aircraft of WWI (piston engine) in level flight was the F4U Corsair. The fastest in a dive was the P-38 Lightning. What made the P-51 so good was a combination of its range which exceeded any other fighter / escort, while its speed and maneuverability were just a wee bit below the P-38 and F4U.
You've got a vived imagination.
I think you may have missed the BF109K. I've seen several figures over the years of around 440 mph for the K4. It was a lot slower with the underwing cannon pods - about 410 mph, I believe - but while they were normally fitted in service, they weren't integral to the aircraft and could be removed.
I've been thinking the same. But you're making a tiny mistake: K-4, the only version of K to see service, and analogue to G-6AS, G-14AS and G-10AS - was never fitted with gun pods ! They were designed for high altitude performance and speed to which gun pods were contrary. Prove me wrong, but I haven't seen a single photo of one of the mentioned 109s with gun pods. Centerline drop tank or one bomb it was.
Edit: 109K-6 had two 30mm underwing gun pods. Probably a handful still saw service. Nevertheless, K-4 and the AS versions are the ones we focus on, and they were "clean".
@@ottovonbismarck2443 You're quite right. The gun pod appears to have been an option for the K-4 as the R-6 Rüstsatz kit, but I can't find any pictures with it fitted. Interesting - I might dig into it a bit more.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 Those 30mm MK 108 guns for the K-6 were apparently not carried as gun pods, but installed directly in the wings.
@dirtyoldcommie814
Are you sure there were any K6 built? Sources seem to be conflicting, some say that none were built ,others that there were a handful of them.
@@dirtyoldcommie814 Which I haven't known, so thank you for that piece of information !
I would have loved to see a Mosquito fitted with Griffin engines!
SAAB 21 (pusher engine), almost 300 were built and put into service.
"Spiteful".....that is the kind of name you'd expect from a country that has ship names like Implacable! SOOO British! Love it!
You'd expect it to be bracketed by /the Peeved/ & the up gunned variant, /the you're for it now/.
@@NM-wd7kx You forgot the sub-variant "What's all this, then?"
HMS Warspite. Best warship name ever.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 And fact that she wasn't preserved as a museum ship is a fucking travesty (Same for the WWII-era USS Enterprise)....she should be there on display next to HMS Victory.
ahem.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cockchafer_(1915)
You made me laugh just when I needed to very badly!!! From a Yank, all I have to say is "jolly good show"! Great informative video.
When the comment section makes Mr Nash say "you listen here you little shit!"
Haha
Great video. Would like to note that you said (referring to J7W Shinden) no pusher type piston engined aircraft ever made it to production. While not the fastest by any standard, the SAAB J21A entered production in 1945!
Not to mention, though a fighter it wasn't, the mighty Convair B-36...
@@stevetournay6103 And the YB-35!!!
VK-108 from that experimental Yak-3 had lifespan goal set at 25 hours but in reality could survive half of that time at best. Good old Hispano-Suiza 12Y was far beyond it's limit there, and soviets had no technology to make it work.
Also, SAAB 21 flew 2 years before J7W and was adopted in 45. And if we go back to WW I era, push-prop fighters were much more common.
this pop up in my recommended after 12 seconds being upload, notification squad?
There's something wrong with youtube's clock. I watched the 22-minute video start to finish with no fast forwards, reloaded the page... and it's still "uploaded 16 minutes ago".
@@jmi5969 idk man, im watching on pc, so?
Take a trip to Reno to see Sea Furys, Mustangs, a Bearcat (The Bearcat) and all manner of really fast warbirds!!!
Awesome fun!!!
Better do it this year or you will never have that chance again.
@@edwardpate6128 Seriously? I didn't know that!!!
That is sad if it's over!!!
i had William Greens first book. You left out the K4. Wow. Listed at 452 in his book and that was most repeated number.
440 is also a number i've seen often in the last 50 years. He listed the Ta152 at 472mph btw.
It seems most English speakers underestimate the K4, until they try to outclimb one.
i would really just count the fighters before Japan fell, ie during the war.
After that you have prototype hot rods with 150 octane fuel.
A first hand story told by my father. RAF - Chief Technician:
US Sabres arrived at a British Airfield & Hornets were sent up to escort them. Thinking they might be embarrassed by a demonstration of jet power from the new Sabres, the RAF pilots applied extra throttle, expecting the Sabres to simply overtake them. Instead, the Hornets blasted right by & kept going.
Speaking to the US pilots after they landed, they revealed they were at max power just trying to keep up with Hornets.
This video shows how piston power reached it’s peak during and after WW II.
Then jets took over.
It surprised me that the F86 flew in the late 1940’s along with the P80.
Interesting video
Howard Hughes' Me 262 was actually barred from participating in a air race which the F-86 won. I've heard it was due to worries of it showing up the new jets, which seems unlikely to me
@@olivergs9840
Howard Hughs had a ME 262?
Wow
That’s news to me!
@@robertdragoff6909 the man was rich and was apparently starting to lose it around the end of the war. During Hughes' first flight at the controls of a Constellation, (with Kelly Johnson as flight engineer) he tested the stall and recovery by putting the gear down, dropping all flaps, shoving the throttles to full, and pulling the yoke as hard as he could. Johnson said that was the only time he ever saw indicated airspeed read zero while airborne, and was floating on the ceiling while shouting to push over. After that, Kelly refused to ever fly with Hughes again
@@olivergs9840
Gee, I wonder why?
Wow!
Another reason why the topic is really arguing about angels on pin heads. By 1945, jet fighters made the argument pointless.
Another great video Ed.
I do think it would have been interesting to see what the Pfiel could have done with some really good quality fuel, exactly the sort of thing the Luftwaffe was lacking by the late war period. However, if the pilot got into difficulties, exiting the plane in an emergency was, well, a bit hit & miss. Apologies if this has already been covered.
Eric Brown said it had, quote,
‘The most complicated system of safety devices ever employed to get a pilot clear in an emergency.’
Unquote.
1/ Press a button to blow the rear prop off.
2/ Press a second button to blow the top fin and rudder off.
3/ Press third button to arm the ejector seat.
4/ Manually eject the canopy by gripping two red levers at the front of the hood & heaving with all his strength.
5/ Squeeze a trigger on the seat arm-rest to activate the ejection seat.
Unfortunately, step 4/ had a few issues which could prevent step 5/. On at least two crashes, the pilot was recovered from the aircraft ~ without one or both arms. Upon heaving on the two red levers to jettison the canopy, it was snatched away so fast that the pilot had no time to let go of the levers ~ and their arm (or arms) went with it.
NOT a nice way to go!
Here's the bottom line; if an airplane never took off on a combat patrol during the war, it shouldn't be included in this list.
Amen!!! 🤠👍
Enjoyed it Ed. Thank you. A lot of interesting fighters, but my favorite is the F4U
Me too. It was the one they decided to keep building after the war and budget cuts because it had it all.not just speed. And was the coolest looking. Frontline fighter into Korea until the jet program got on its feet
P47Ms in Zemke's Wolfpack in the last 2 months of WW2. They were Me262 hunters.
9:00 462 (actually 463) mph at 37,000 feet with MW-50 boost was the speed of the Ta 152 C-3 version which may not have entered service. The H-1 (confirmed by Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles as the fastest piston-engine fighter of the war), had a top speed of 472mph at 41,000 feet with GM-1 and MW-50 boost. It can do this for a full 30 minutes while the P-47M (fastest Allied piston-engine fighter of the war) with 150 octane fuel could manage identical speed but for only about 5 minutes at full emergency power but at 11,000 feet lower.
That double system of gm1 and mw50 on the 152 really was sth.
There was a version of the Do 335 called the Do 635, one of a kind if I remember correctly (I hope). It was single seat with a bubble top canopy similar to a Tempest, P-51D or P-47D with an even sleeker fuselage than the Do 335. It was allegedly measured at 835 km/h TAS at the Erprobungsstelle Rechlin, I think in April 1945. I can’t remember the altitude, but it was very high because I just remember me wondering that it could climb that high let alone fly that fast that high.
There was an article about this in a German aeronautical magazine called “Flug Revue” in the 1980ies. In the article there was a picture of the aircraft and a picture of the barograph readout. The guy who wrote the article was Hans Redemann, a noted Luftwaffe historian back then.
I just hope I didn’t post any nonsense. It’s been decades I read this.
The 635 was a proposed variant design. A wind tunnel model was constructed and tested, with a cockpit mock up being as far as it got. The project aim was to test a prototype in late 1945 however it was cancelled in February of that year.
Nice edit of the "For a few dollars more" cards scene. Got a chuckle out of me!
A very interesting documentary. I will look forward to watching more.
My criterion for determining the fastest WWII fighter is that it must have at least achieved what we call today initial operational capability during the war. That excludes fighters like the Hornet, the F4U-5 and all prototype and preproduction aircraft. The contenders come down to the the TA-152, P-47M and P-51H. I usually say the P-51H by virtue of its large production order and its deployment for the upcoming invasion of Japan. However since the H never saw combat the winner is the P-47M.
I agree.
You are a brave man taking on the aircraft community with this comparison We all have our favourite and can see how subjective speeds can be I personally think it shame that some of the one off's did not see action MB 5 XP 72 etc weren't developed more great upload 5hough 😊😊😊😊
The Sea Fury - whatever its speed - was a pretty successful aircraft pretty much everywhere it was used.
Except in War Thunder because those game developers just aren't too bright.
All this proves is that far too many middle aged men played top trumps as children and that this kind of debate has nothing whatsoever to do with history.
Regardless of who wins, they're all really beautiful planes. Even the P-47, in its own special way. :-)
Yeah, 47 really highlights the fact, that you can make a barrel go fast without dropping it from the orbit. 😅
Level flight is good and all... but when you gotta go fast, you use everything at your disposal.
And absolutely nothing can fall out of the sky faster than the P-47. I do recall, that it was either an N or M that broke the sound barrier in a dive. They could catch the 262, often to the incredulous surprise of the Luftwaffa pilots, as long as they had altitude to use.
Vídeo Excelente!👏 Grato pelas informações!🌟
That is one of my favourite books. I’ve spent 10s of hours going through it
For comparison the A400M does 781 km/h (485 mph) at 9,450 m (31,000 ft).
Cruising.
And sounds like a bag of spanners falling down a metal fire escape!
@@cdl0 That's due to those cheap yankee props they put on it to keep the "transatlantic cousins" happy.
Well done, Ed.
Pierre Clostermann describes an attempted interception of a Do-335 in his book, _’The Big Show’._
Green’s book definitely says 474. I have a copy.
Do 335 was too fast, if remember right what I read 30 years ago.
@@altergreenhorn Do you mean Green credited it with being faster than it really was? Eric Brown says 455.
@@thethirdman225 Im talking about Pierre Clostermann book, dont have green book
@@altergreenhorn Oh, sorry. You meant it was too fast for Clostermann or his section to catch. Got it.
@@thethirdman225 jp
Wow, a lot of interesting planes and information to see here, and I appreciate the way you use imperial measures along with with metric (I'm American so that helps... no conversion calculations, my mathematics are not my forte... kinda scary for an aspiring pilot, right haha) That makes it great for everyone to watch no matter where you come from. Great vid thanks for the upload!
Mr. Nash, you must be either a masochist or a sadistic gadfly. Either way this video is sure to send the comments flying.
Nicely done, sir, nicely done.
I think the Shinden has a lot of interest because of it's prominent presence in "operational use" in video games...
Dornier 335 left everybody in it's turbulence.
Wëhräböö fäntasy fävourite.
In theory because it never flew operationally.
My father was a fighter pilot in WW II flying everything from the P-40's through the P-51e. In a dive, the P-47 could achieve compressability, a phenomenon that super sonic jets had to overcome as well. He was one if not the first to fly one through that dangerous phenomenon as a flight instructor. But in his mind, the P-51e that he flew into the record books at gunnery at Myrtle Beach prior to being assigned to the first jet fighter group ever formed was, in level flight, unmatched. Sadly he's no longer with us, but I'll stand with his well-researched position.
Yay!
I have seen 472 MPH for the TA-152 quoted in many publications. No mention of the XP-47 H at 490 MPH
Wheraboos (ostensibly anime nerds who worship nazi WW2 weapons, uniforms, etc.) are a sad lot. There is definitely a huge overlap of these folks and 4chan incels. It is simultaneously funny and sad.