Full Stall PROPAGANDA!!!
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Paragliding tutorial about the common misconceptions behind SIV and particularly full stalls. Are full stalls really the remedy to all your paragliding problems? How important is this maneuver to learn, and for who? When should you learn it?
The Paragliding Academy's Dean of SIV and Acro, Kris Holub, sits down with Ari in the Air and shares his rant about this one. It's awesome and informative.
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Kris is one of the best instructors I have ever worked with. I did maneuvers training in Oludeniz with him this past spring and I couldn't be happier about the progression I made in that time. When he talks I listen. See you guys in a couple months!
Nailed it! Chris said everything we think/feel/teach about full stalls! Learn the basics, and understand that stalls need LOADS of practice before it’s safe and useful. The SIV altitude is much better used on working the basics, until the pilots have the SIV fundamentals on lock.
stall training really helped my XC progression, to understand how the wing fly and what it's going to do next, also made me feel like I need a bunch more training before going for a slightly hotter wing.
Love the both of you to hear somebody admit that I don't ever need to do it stall is a load off my shoulders. If it's flying keep flying straight.
Thank you! My thoughts since a while already! Thx for the confirmation ❤
I really appreciate the thoughtfulness you two bring to this conversation!
Thanks for watching and for the kind words!!!
Invaluable video, appreciate it!
Refreshing talk boys! I think the most valuable thing about SIV is learning how to identify and what to do when the glider is behind you and or in front of you. Identifying airspeed, energy, and nailing the basic, BUT most important small piloting inputs. (The Stall can and will for sure teach you those lessons). BUT, if most pilots can get the same practice in a more safe configuration than a stall, I think they will be able to digest more and really create and dial in good active piloting habits.
We totally agree Evan. Like you said, learning stalls will def give you the practice, but if there is a less dangerous, less scary way for students to learn the same things, we as instructors gotta figure out the way and bring it to light. So here we are!
How refreshing. I have always believed that most pilots, myself included, are more likely to mess up a full stall when done in anger than recover the glider using alternative means.
In 20 years of flying , this is by far the best chat ive heard from an SIV instructor.. 👏👏👏
Malin Lobb from Flyeo in Annecy has some great ones on youtube too 👍 These were some great points but id say Malins talks cover more detail 😊
I agree, so cool to heard that 's progression withe spirals management and nuances are the basics, to creat pthe pilote behavior. Fabien SIV Flyeo school in Annecy congrats
Fabien!!! You legend!!! Thanks so much for chiming in! I hope to meet you some day!
Great vid, much appreciated. Recently I did my first 100k FAI triangle (well, 110 actually), but I am not even close to the full stall yet. Have my next (second) SIV in october and felt a bit of pressure to have to do it this time, but not so sure anymore now.
Thing is, second half of next season I want to go two-liner C and basically everyone told me that you should be comfortable with the full stall when going two-liner.
And what's next on the myth-busting list? I vote for fully developed spins. That one has produced a ton of carnage at the various clinics I've been at. On the plus side, I got riser twisted so often practicing spins that I got pretty good at the trick where you untwist with the glider overhead in stall, using asymmetric brake input to untwist. It'd have to be a pretty high altitude incident for me to try that in the wild however
I don’t have an siv and almost got caught in a freak gust front at our local flying site that is legendary for its smooth glass off. Hat creek rim, I never thought I needed an siv because I fly at such a predictable spot.
I really need to master my decent technique an siv is exactly what I need. Great discussion.
I think it might be worth everyone getting one though. Never thought I needed it. I got so lucky I landed before it hit. 1 person landed 60ft in a tree the other broke their t11…everyone else landed away from lz some people miles away.
Coming from skydiving, I did not find PG stalls to be very scary or particularly valuable, but the PG spirals were very frightening; since a skydiving wing is 100x more recovery stable. Place most skydiving wings in a full spin and they will typically recover themselves without much input. I believe this is due to large disparity in each other's unique trim angle of attack, but I would be happy to be corrected?
The other awesome thing about Turkey is that Georgia ,and the Caucuses, is RIGHT next door. Flying Svaneti is flying Switzerland at a fraction of the price. Cooler than turkey too. And then theres Bassiani and Khidi in Tbilisi as well.
Wow, I'll have to check these out... Thanks for the beta!!!
@@AriintheAir I can connect you with great folk in Georgia. Some of them are regulars in OluDeniz.
Great video. After my first 2 days of SIV, doing full stalls on second day, i was so overdosed on adrenaline that I felt sick the third day, I didn’t even fly the third day. That being said i still got a lot out of the SIV and that training has helped immensely, especially now that I stepped up to a high-B and have had my first real big collapse in the wild (at least 70%) I handled it with no further cascade, i don’t think i would have been capable of doing that without the training I had gotten in SIV. I’m also a pretty timid pilot in summer big air mid day conditions. I’ve gotten a little better and have flown a little over 20 km tasks, but it’s taken me 2.5 years, 150 flights and almost 70 hours to get to that point, I see a lot of pilots sending big flights in strong conditions in their first year, but everyone is different and i really like the idea of a SIV instructor tailoring the course to the individual. Not everyone should be doing full stalls on day 2, maybe that’s ok for a lot of people, but you spend all this money and you want to get the most out of it but at some point you are just way past your comfort level and I’m not sure you are learning as much when you are that far. Of course we need to push against that comfort level, but how far is different from person to person.
I'm learning how to fly in epsilon 9 high-end be glider and thank you for the good news. I'm never going to progressed past the golden epsilon nine-level and I am never going to have to learn to stall. I do math. In order to stall the wing must be flying. I will continue to fly straight no matter what and I will never stop flying to start flying if I'm flying I will fly all the way to the ground I will never stall and stop lying because I have some problem. I study the fatalities that make everybody else squeamish. If you're flying heavy on the wing or your flying slow on the wing you can fly straight but if you are flying heavy or if you are flying slow and you turn you will lose altitude quickly. Learning how to spiral is not so hard I'm sure I will be able to spiral on my first flight nothing to it however learning how to stop spiral diving, that's the trick. I wish you would tell everybody how good the air is where you are and turkey I believe that is a ocean breeze that you're working in and that is the place to learn to do tricky maneuvers in the middle of North America with all the different forces causing turbulence near the ground it's just not the place to learn. When you say in the wild you should be saying in the wild air.
Mark! You're the most active commenter, and I so appreciate it!!!
@@AriintheAir I kind of feel bad about that in some ways when you say I put in a good content. I work on a boat and I was in the safety industry for a while and I noticed a distinct amount of squeamishness in the rest of the population. I've been doing a lot more studying on these videos and asking questions and I've come to the conclusion that seems to be a major safety issue and nobody really wants to talk about it. I have that epsilon 9 and I'm within five kilograms of overweight if I'm sure I don't wear any underwear and socks and I go to the bathroom before I fly. Most people don't understand that when you were flying at the very edge of the insurable weight range it means that the difference between the glide ratio when flying straight and the glide ratio when flying a curve is at the point of no insurance when it hits the point of maximum weight range. That Wing I bought the epsilon nine has me right at the top of the weight range so it is not going to fly turning it's only going to fly straight and whenever you were turning you were going to lose altitude at a lot brisker Pace than a person flying in the middle or the bottom of the weight range. Jockey Sanderson put out an excellent video about locked in spirals I've watched it many times I've drawn calculation ever calculation I've contemplated every word he said everything he had. He had a friend's Wing that was kind of unique so it wasn't an A or a b or anything rated any over weighted it. He would spiral dive lock in and pull out quick. He was flying with all that extra weight and that made his glide ratio drop like a Rock from flying straight to turning and when it did that it lock in that spiral quick as the Dickens. I love watching the fatalities I'm not squeamish I'm going to fly in the sky just like those people and I'm from the maritime tradition if I got killed on the boat go ahead and figure out what I did wrong and if you don't have time use my dead corpse to plug the hole to get home and figure out what I did wrong and if it goes the other way that's what I'm going to do with you. Most of the fatalities I have been able to find we're somewhat related to this phenomena the paraglider does not fly well turning hard compared to how well it flies going straight. We got somebody with 100 ft altitude he's got on both brakes he's not going very fast and he suddenly turns loose or one break that big thrust pushes the wing to turn. All that stacked up are under pressure just tiny amounts but it's a big mass for low pressure shoots out and get some thrust on that side and this guy is in trouble. When I watch this I wonder if there is anything you can do at all besides hit the ground hard? I'm not sure what you could do by this time because after you let that break out and you start falling into that hole and you put that break back on you've got a two or three second delay before it even starts to do anything. Since I can't find anybody who is as cold and shrewd and calculating as I am I just can't get good instructions everybody doesn't want to admit that there's a point when you screwed yourself. I'm working on my subconscious mind and programming things from my past to keep me safe when I fly. I had a girlfriend with a real irritating voice in a way sort of and she would say to me "I got the board to fit your ass Moses". When I fly I intend to fly her voice in my head and and she will be saying something like I got the board fit your ass Moses stay out of those brakes no one told you to use those brakes did anybody tell you it's time to use the brakes "I got the board to fit your ass Moses."then my landing plans nobody seems to understand anything about learning. I have to make my first landing after they told me up in the sky and I get a 15 or 20 minutes brief practice. At the controls and now I'm going to just come right in at 25 feet and sweet and keep track of that pitch axis and keep track of the rolexes and keep track of the yard and keep everything perfectly smooth and true and land right on it. Just like ari in the air. For the life of me I cannot convince anybody that you can't turn me into ari in 20 minutes flying. I've got a 100 m radius landing spot. I don't have a single reason to disturb my pitch axes with them miserable misnamed brakes flaps accelerator ailerons on a string. I don't have any hope at all of flying through the air in perceiving this complicated swoop curvature well enough to pull my breaks up and then start flying level with this fancy thing I just can't see it I can't think it and I can't fly it there's no hope at all on my first landing. I don't need it I've got a spot so big I don't need to do anything else but flies towards the ground with my hands up in my weight shift leveling the rolexes the entire approach. I'm a gangster I'm built just like Tony soprano. I'm coming in heavy on the wing. I'm going to do my approach from 100ft I'm going to unbuckle my chest strap I'm going to lean forward and I'm going to scream I will ram you at the people on the ground then I'm going to stick my mouthpiece in between my teeth for this landing I've got to eat. I'm standing up in my seat I'm leaning wayforward get my legs wiggled under me as far as possible.when I do the chest strap and I bite my teeth on this mouthpiece I'm going to flip on my anger and turned bright red and I'm going to be mad at Ari and my instructor. I will be mad at everybody and in my mind I'm going to be arguing with them about how terrible their instructions are and how if your landing you need to do this and this and this and this and this and this and you didn't tell me to do this and this and this and this and this. Nothing personal but I don't have anywhere to write a check list down like an airliner and I need to make sure I do everything I'm supposed to do. The other thing is I need the address to land for this disaster I'm involving myself in. So I'll be coming down out of the sky from 100 ft with nothing on my mind whatsoever but the role axis being level perfectly, level, and jamming those brakes on when I get down to 1 m or less. I'm going to come forward probably four or five hundred feet since I'm got my feet out and I'm blocking all the win for all the parasitic drag I can muster so it will fly as slowly as possible at trim speed with as much load on the strings as possible. When I get low like that I'm not going to take a chance to prove that I am not Ari. There's going to be no sweeping curve in or anything like that there's going to be no general transition as I put both brakes on evenly like some hotshot. I'm going to jam those breaks on at the last second as hard as I can as fast as I can so I go from being a transition that is controlled by a pilot to a transient that is an uncontrolled unimaginable no model for its state as I stepped from the idea of trim flying to the idea of full on flair. By now I should be full and red-faced angry and I will be leaning Way Forward my feet planted down my teeth gritted on my mouthpiece I put on my full-on flair even if I'm early my instructor said hold it like the devil because if you let it off a little bit it will porpoise on you and swing you into the ground hard. I'm going to make that flare I'm going to hold that flare no matter what and I'm going to have my feet pointed down because I got my chest strap on buckled and whatever it comes to I'm going to eat that landing I didn't get to be a gangster because I'm squeamish about taking my medicine. The second my feet hit the ground I'm going to be laughing and happy and laughing about air and laughing about my instructor and everything else. I'm going always to do a parachute landing fall no matter how nice my landing looks just as a drill in case I get turned around and fly back into the hill I want to be quick on hitting that parachute landing fall to minimize my injuries. Then when I stand up and I spit out my mouthpiece I'm going to shout so loud you can hear me for a mile."I've shit myself". I really doubt that I will have anything in my pants at the end of my landing this time. I'm not Ari. The first time they hear me yell at on landing they're all going to look and see if I'm telling the truth or if it's a false alarm. In my case I don't have the skills that ari has and it would be good to have a lot of false alarms on that particular problem like a little boy who cried wolf nobody will be running down here to check if I really do love my pants or not and they'll all know I'm okay every time. Any comment on any of these mind games I have to play do you have any of this at this point or do you just have habits that don't require emotional support?
Hi Ari, we met on top of Monte Grappa and we talked about different technics of toplanding. Unfortunately I only found German Videos about the technique I mentioned. But you can see quite well what I meant. For example this from the German Paragliding Club: m.ua-cam.com/video/qLbNON26bck/v-deo.html&pp=ygUbc2ltb24gd2lua2xlciBmbGFwcyBsYW5kdW5n
I mean the „TrimmFlaps“ technique
If it's flying straight keep flying straight if it's flying it will land. If it is not flying it is going in a tight curve and you need to straighten out the path to get any kind of a good outcome. I've seen people halfway in the brake turn one side loose it turns all of the sudden they don't have enough time and they spiral to the ground 100 ft. I don't think a stall is a good way to solve any problem with a glider that is actually flying. I don't want to progress. I just want to be an old fat guy that flies around like a tourist on a epsilon 9. I don't think I would ever intentionally stall.
Can't really believe that there are people who like Fullstall should be one of first things, crazy 😂
SIV should be done step by step in my understanding.
I already did 3 and did not try a Fullstall.
Things which most likely will Happen are collapses in many ways, so this things should be first things how to handle, second spirals or alternatives to come down quickly. Third thing, at least throw ones your reserve to know how it works.
Good thing at my "Club" and or school we need to do a SIV every 3 years, with this all the time you are at least in Training.