Jerusalem Surrenders - Bolsheviks Consolidate Control I THE GREAT WAR Week 177
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2017
- This week in the Great War, the British under Allenby capture the Holy City. Meanwhile the British War Cabinet beings to strategise for future offensives. In Russia, though the fighting may be over on the Eastern Front, the fight for control of the country is far from over. Before the Bolsheviks can negotiate peace with Germany, they need to establish peace within Russia’s own borders.
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» WHAT ARE YOUR SOURCES?
Videos: British Pathé
Pictures: Mostly Picture Alliance
Background Map: d-maps.com/carte.php?num_car=6...
Literature (excerpt):
Gilbert, Martin. The First World War. A Complete History, Holt Paperbacks, 2004.
Hart, Peter. The Great War. A Combat History of the First World War, Oxford University Press, 2013.
Hart, Peter. The Great War. 1914-1918, Profile Books, 2013.
Stone, Norman. World War One. A Short History, Penguin, 2008.
Keegan, John. The First World War, Vintage, 2000.
Hastings, Max. Catastrophe 1914. Europe Goes To War, Knopf, 2013.
Hirschfeld, Gerhard. Enzyklopädie Erster Weltkrieg, Schöningh Paderborn, 2004
Michalka, Wolfgang. Der Erste Weltkrieg. Wirkung, Wahrnehmung, Analyse, Seehamer Verlag GmbH, 2000
Leonhard, Jörn. Die Büchse der Pandora: Geschichte des Ersten Weltkrieges, C.H. Beck, 2014
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THE GREAT WAR covers the events exactly 100 years ago: The story of World War I in realtime. Featuring: The unique archive material of British Pathé. Indy Neidell takes you on a journey into the past to show you what really happened and how it all could spiral into more than four years of dire war. Subscribe to our channel and don’t miss our new episodes every Thursday.
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The title made me think the Bolsheviks took control of Jerusalem.
Lenin: WE WANT PEACE!
(wild revolution happens)
Lenin: Nah let's take Jerusalem
Lenin Vult??? Doesn't sound right...
They did!
Benoit Bvg Lenin Akbar?
That would've been fun.
Vladimir Lenin: "We must make a Socialist republic!"
"Badimir Benin": "You voted for the wrong Socialists :)"
Ahh Bolsheviks. "your democracy is wrong, our democracy is right because its ours"
brooklyn hounsell no, Because Parlamentarism isnt democratic.
DEMOCRATIC CENTRALISM BETTER THEN ALL
HANG THE BOURGY WORLDWIDE FOR LENIN MARX AND THE REVOLUTION
Lenin: Voting for representatives isn't democratic. So let's ignore the vote entirely and assign leaders ourselves to show how much better our democracy is.
They were not the only revolution to dispense with the political structures of the previous regime.
it's kind of amazing that in this day and age there are still marxists who defend the atrocious behaviour of the soviet union
Jerusalem and Bolsheviks in the same video? *DOUBLE DEMONITIZED*
actually it's not.
Choo-choo-choose? Are you now Indian Wiggum? 😉
What is Jerusalem worth?
Nothing..
Everything.....
Great episode as always. Best UA-cam channel! Thx for the great job, guys.
Best or one of the best
Daniel Giraldo Zapata World War One is World War Fun!
I love this show, it got me interested in this period, so thank you.
"[...]we are forced to hand over to you the city through Hussein al-Husseini, the mayor of Jerusalem, hoping that you will protect Jerusalem the way we have protected it for more than five hundred years."
~ Izzat Bey, Ottoman Governor of Jerusalem, in his Letter of Surrender to Allenby.
unfortunately it never kept its peace since that day😭
You can call it trash, BUT HİSTORY SHOWS İT WHAS THE BEST DAYS OF JERUSALEM
@@MrPlayerFB you are technically right about jerusalem being better off during the ottoman empire... yes, back during ww1 Jerusalem wasn't recieving nightly rocket attacks by its neighboring countries like it is now I guess???
However that is a low bar.
But Jerusalem had better days under king David and Solomon
Lmaooo bullshi Did u learn this from fake quran 😂 he never said that lol he was busy running 😂 while third crusader richards descendant george 5th took it 😂 deus vult
@@bruhmcchaddeus413 I don't remember because I left this comment half a decade ago lol
Richard the Lionheart would be proud
he was the king of england and was born in oxford, if that doesnt make him english nothing does
Kabir Škrijelj he didn't hate England, it was a territory that filled his coffers (a lot) and gave him little to no trouble. He also owed his regal title to it. You don't hate that.
He did feel more connected to Aquitaine because of his upbringing and liked the weather, wine and lifestyle better. He was in France a lot because his Frech territory needed constant guarding and the nobles were always scheming unlike, the english nobles. So i don't know where you get that notion from, unless you're just salty of course.
He was the King of England but also had direct political control of more of France than the French King, It was complicated.
They actually made a cartoon about him looking down from heaven saying "my dream comes true"
Funny thing is, George 5th was descendant of third crusader richard lionhearts bloodline (through his brother jon) and england to this use crusader flag of saint george cross 😂 Deus vult ✝️
As a Turkish person myself I am impressed with General Edmund Allenby as a soldier. He was one of the few Great War generals WHO did not try failed ineffective methods over and over therefore sacrificing his men. His planning and logistical build up for Third Battle of Gaza was nothing short of impressive and he led his forces and managed the battle compatently while pursuing defeat Ottoman Yildirim Army Group and finally capturing Jerusalem. (Lloyd George asked him to do so as a Christmas gift to British public ) He should have been at Haig's place in Western Front.
Kind of like William Slim, eh?
I would say Bernard Montgomery but yeah being a secondary overseas theater managing with less resources is more similar to Slim in Burma. What I find most appealing in Allenby as commander is his priorty in build up , planning and visiting frontline. He emphasized on sanitary and health conditions of his troops in desert and always gave priorty to water supply. Considering that Ottoman forces facing him dropping like flies due to diseases like dynestery , beri beri etc and inadequate water that made a huge difference.
The aspects you mention are clear example of how those less glamorous aspects of war are crucial. "Aficionados discuss strategy, veterans discuss logistics" goes the old saying. About Montgomery... I have some mixed feelings. I think he is exalted for the wrong reasons... and his best traits go unnoticed.
Richardsen "Amateurs study tactics while professionals deal with logistics." quote by General Ritter von Thoma second in command of Rommel's Panzerarmee Africa. He said this quote after his capture by British at the end of Second Battle of El Alamein and his following dinner with Montgomery on 4th November 1942. It summarises modern warfare best.
100% agreed.
Whenever I hear General Kornilov's name, I hear "General Courtney Love" LOL
The one who signed Sir Kurt Cobain's execution order
Will you change the color of Russia to yellow in future videos to not create a confusion that it's still fighting the Germans?
Nein!
Mehmed Nedjib change it to redder
dark red for areas occupied by bolshevics and white for white army would be better.
the big challenge will be finding accurate front lines. we definitely want to do it. but it's not easy.
Instead of dividing in clear lines, why not bubbles of power/influence/control with no clear lines for the various factions in Russia?
After many weeks of watching your excellent videos, i've finally caught up. Just in time for the war to be over by Christmas. It will be over by Christmas, right? Thanks for all the amazing work you do on these videos!
terrenceromano It feels so weird to see people call themselves veterans when you've been subscribed since the preview (July 2014)
I'm curious about what logic your running on, to think the war could be over by Christmas, given the events of the current episode. The way things are going, the war may never end.
All wars will be over by Christmas. Not necesseraly the next Christmas but by some Christmas down the line.
It was a saying people said at the beginning of the war in 1914, that the war would be over by Christmas. Kinda morbidly funny in retrospect.
Also in other events: Romania signs armistice with the Central Powers.
No offense, but I'd think a country leaving the war is worth a bit more than 3 seconds of the episode...
WE WILL TAKE JERUSALEM!!!!!
Somehow I knew you would be here
The Silver Hat
I saw the words "Jerusalem surrenders" as such I must attend
probably has a Google alert or something
1095: "We will take Jerusalem"!
2017: "We recognize Jerusalem"!
The Great War
Someone knows too much.
I cant believe i still watch these videos, i just cant stop at this point
Yet another terrific episode. This Russian revolution info is fascinating. Please consider doing a couple special episodes about it. This show is my favourite part of my Thursday routine.
It is always entertaining to see the Great War re-enacted in the comments.
Though the guns long fell silent, the Great War still rages in the comment section with endless waves of letters scrolling over the top in their attacks.
I thought this war would end all wars? by christmas? 1914?
I fell for the trap, I'm binge whatcing this as often as I can for 2 months now...
Fighting on Don. I recommend "And quietly flows the Don", a true masterpiece that is set in this time period. I read it 7-8 years ago and remember it as the best novel I ever read.
Great Episode as always, but I wanna give a shutout to the Dig Hill 80 project being successfully funded! I look forward to any episodes you guys might do there.
already planning our trip.
Is this like a big thing I feel like I've seen something about dig hill 80 on another channel I watch forgotten weapons
I am sad to realize this show will soon end, i have watched it from episode 20 and i loved every single week. I am looking forward to what they are planning to do with the channel after the war is over
just caught up. Great channel guys. Thanks.
Oh thats interesting, I happened to be reading up on the dome of the rock and the Jerusalem old city today, and this happens to be todays episode! Super cool as always guys!
Bolsheviks: "We're the party of the people!"
The People: *votes for someone else*
Bolsheviks: "....err...don't listen to them..."
I finally did it : I catched you guys up! I have been watching 4 to 6 episodes per day since three months and here it is!
Thank you for citing first and adding your dissent. I'm confident in directing people to your channel.
Anzacs actually entered a few days early and excepted the cities surrender.
FINALLY CAUGHT UP. Love this channel!
“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this - who will count the votes, and how.”
And the mess starts
Amali Homer ....because under the Ottomaniacs the place was peaceful. Give me a break.
Bloody Brilliant speech from Vladdy! What a Spin doctor!!
Why is it that typically the Russian revolution is usually seen as white vs red when it was split into many different factions that actually played very important parts (like the anarchists allying with the Bolsheviks, spoilers btw) ?
because it's a clusterfuck (pardon my French) of a situation and we need to somewhat break it down with the limited time we have.
You should do a special episode to help clarify the Civil War.
Great job.
I really enjoy watching your channel when I get the chance.
my great grandfather was RSM south Nott' hussars. They were allenby's headquarters troops when he entered jerusalem. iti s something to think i may well be looking at him as we see the pictures of british troops in the city.
No idea if it's the Christmas markets, a possible advent calendar or, possibly, drugs, but you seem impressively motivated for that one. Nice too see in any case. :)
I love the Great War and the Great War.
do you also love the great war? perhaps you love the great war as well, im also curious to know if you hold afection for the great war, and perhaps you may also have a fond attachment for the great war.
LOL
Doralingus & Assorted nah kinda just the Great War. And the Great War
The first one and the second?
Piotr Rybiński there was a second one?!?!?#?!? SPOILER ALERT
As allways it`s a nice episode,and considering the current political situation it`s even more interesting.
I have a question:
Will u make some bio-special about General Vladimir Vazov a.k.a The Winner from Doyran?
Hey Indy I love your videos when the series ends would you ever consider doing a series on WWII? Just an idea
How about a special about the British Territorial Force? Explaining the first, second and third line of a Territorial battalion. Their overseas and home service, plus the way they were looked at as second rate soldiers by the army staff.
You should make a Russian civil war episode every Friday
I have subscribed mainly because your videos are not Russophobic as most historical channels today are. keep up with the unbiased work.
Last time i was This early wait there was no time like that
Boi, this video came just in time for the controversy!
Are you going to make a brest-litovsk treaty special when its time I think march????? I don't know when it happened btw 😀 also could you do an episode about what the central powers ambitions were if they won which they didn't of course.
The 10th Australian Light Horse entered Jerusalem at 7pm on the 9th and the city was surrendered by the mayor at that time. The Official surrender happened on the 11th.
Especially interesting if read against TE Lawrence's "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" - describes perfectly how the British threw away the advantage
What advantage?
After all these years the Europeans finally get the holy city
They got it for a little bit in the first crusade
Rome was not built in a day! Whaddya expect of us poor Europeans? XD
hey... to be completely fair... we gave up on caring for it on the third crusade...
DarkshadowXD63 and bring chaos to the city
I like his letter-opener/last resort.
the new Turning Tides DLC looks great
Hey indy and the team. I am watching you since 1914 and I am really proud to be part of this awesome community ( I am talking about you, Flo.) I am from young democracy called Georgian republic. My country is ancient and used to be influenced by many cultures. After annexation of Georgian principalities and absorbing it by russian empire in 1801-1811 Georgia used to play crucial role in the region. Its capital, Tbilisi was administrative center of south Caucasus and russian empire gained foothold in Caucasian region by it. As we have close proximity to persian and ottoman borders, all wars t
With them were fought on our land and using our manpower. Georgia with population of over 2.3 million by 1918 has sent somewhat 250 thousand troops to russian empire on all fronts. After fall of russian empire we had great relations with German empire which helped us to negotiate between ottomans and Russians. These times are really important for my people as it played crucial role in our strife of self determination and nationalism. On may 26th, 1918 democratic republic of Georgia was proclaimed independent. After this till 1921, when Soviet annexed us we had really interesting times. We had many successful wars, we effectively fought off communists and our government consisted mainly of Mensheviks(minority of communist party after split in london in 1904.) Indy, Flo and the team. As you see I am fluent in English and I can easily speak or write in it.(not concerning this text, I wrote it hurry.) I want to do research and send to you my work, but I have some challenges. 1) there are lots of works about ww2 but not ww1, they are scarce.
I found a great book which used sources from that times but it is written in georgian and sources and bibliography is either in German, russian or Georgian. Thus book is written by highly educated historian who used approximately 500 sources and even had interviews from whiteness. I really want to contribute my work time and effort in this work but would you trust this sources? Is there any point of me doing this and translating.
Btw, I have contacted one of tgeost famous historians in modern Georgia to help me out.
What do you think, will you trust my work? And how could it be sent?
I am 17 years old and I am planning on studying physics in the usa but I have a great knowledge in history and that's why I loved your channels in the first place.
I would be glad if your read the whole thing, idk, lol, thank you. And please, can you contact me?
You Georgians should be ashamed of yourself by blockading Armenia, you don't even deserve to call you a holy name like Georgia
My grandparents left Hungary after the war because of the continued fighting and revolution. My grandfather or Nagyapa from what I know, fought on the Italian front.
and the fighting did go on, here, there, somewhere in the world on and on even un to this day.
In the past few years, i've totally reconsidered my opinion of the French governements around the first world war. In School, you learn the typical "we did what we had to do, war was inevitable" things, but in reality, this crap is what they said to hide the fact they wanted a to win (for their ego?) and where willing to let millions of people to die instead for it.
As an example, Jean Jaurès, most influent pacifist, got murdered 3 days after the war began. His murderer, Raoul Villain, was acquitted somehow because "He was a good patriot" (and i have thousands like that)...
Almost everyone in WW1 started the war with an intent to gain something from it for their country.
Hey, Quick question. As you all probably know Denmark got beaten pretty badly by Prussia in the first and second Schleswig War, with this in mind. Why would they not attack Germany when they were at their weakest, over stretched and under supplied? You have mentioned before, that if Denmark would attack Germany. They could take Berlin with relative ease and take back lost territory.
That could possibly have worked while The Germans were engaged on the Eastern Front, but now they have hundreds of thousands moving across Germany to the Western Front. Also Germany's internal transportation network was pretty efficien and they were fully mobilizedt, it may have been able to divert enough units from one of the fronts to deal with a Danish attack. The Danes probably did not think it was worth the risk.
@@mjbull5156 The Danes not only didn't think it was worth the risk, they had weapons they were selling that they didn't want to sell to any of the participants to not get caught up in the war (the Madsen machine gun). Some countries seem to be smarter than Romania, and Bulgaria. Just not worth getting involved in, life over greed, insane I know.
They infact had this policy they were pretty strict about called "neutrality".
Definitely need the series on DVD/ bluray
working on that.
i'm not sure if it falls under the purview of this channel but are you guys planning to do an episode about Vatican's reaction to British control of Jerusalem
Bio special about kolchak... pleeees :D
80% tax is insane wouldn't it make sense for them to just stop their factories?
Those fighting the war have to be fed and required ammunition as well as other supplies, they cost money and where does the government get money besides taxes?
I would like to ask you this Indy even when it is too early to ask since these soldiers fought in 1918.
I want to ask if you would be talking about the Harlem Hellfighters, a african american division who fought bravely among the French against the germans.
I've read about their victories and what they had achieved in the Great War. But I see that the Hellfighters doesn't seem the fame it deserves like they had in France where a statue is dedicated to them.
It was just a suggestion since it seems like 1918 is close at the door and it would be fantastic to honor those who fought on French soil for people who barely could speak the same language, but still respect eachother.
Keep doing the Good work Indy.
It's amazing how the violence only seemed to increase as the war progressed.
Sounds like a long-needed victory for us
The scene of Allenby entering Jerusalem on foot is probably the most impressive footage from WW1. I've watched it hundreds of times and alway gives me chills. He achieved what the Crusaders missed. It's like we had a footage of Napoleon surrendering in Waterloo, of Columbus landing at Bahamas.
Crusaders took Jerusalem twice BTW, in the first crusade and in the sixth crusade.
You're correct. My bad.
Napoleon didn't surrender at Waterloo either...
@Samuel Kung
That's embarassing - lol. Let's say "Napoleonic armies surrendering".
The crusaders didn't really "take" Jerusalem in the Sixth, more like it was bargained for. And then the Khwarezmians came and burned it all down.
Holy shit I was just in Jerusalem today. Ended up walking along the top of the old city wall. By accident. Weird day.
Hi Indy and Crew, Question for out of the Trenches.
Given the overwhelming success of the Central Powers at the Battle of Caporetto could the breakthrough been potentially exploited better to substantially increase their chances at overall victory?
By that I mean the German High Command (and Otto von Below ) didn't really seem to want to be involved on the Italian Front at all and only mobilized seven divisions for the operation. What if they had really committed to the offense and dispatched significantly more soldiers from the rapidly deteriorating Eastern Front? Could Italy have been completely knocked out of the war and if so would the subsequent freeing up the stretched thin Austrian-Hungarian troops and resources to the Western Front been enough to play a decisive role in the German Offenses of 1918? Love your show and keep up the excellent work. Hope you guys keep the content rolling past the war's conclusion to extensively cover the post-war chaos that occurred across much the globe.
can you submit that here please: outofthetrenches.thegreatwar.tv
Great video as always. This is probably something brought up before in other comment sections, but can anyone recommend a channel of this caliber for WWII?
That doesn't exist, sorry.
One of the takeaways for Lenin from the election results should have been that Russia clearly wasn't ready for a proletarian revolution. The vast majority of Russia's population were peasants, and the party that represented the peasants, the SRs, won a plurality in the election. However, acknowledging the results of the election would have meant Lenin a. admitting that he had been wrong about Russia's historical development and b. ceding power. He was unwilling to do either of those things.
In the map at around the 8 minute mark there is a "Ekaterinoslav" in the Kuban, it should probably be "Ekaterinodar"
7:09 The chap with the glasses standing at the left - is that Lavrentiy Beria?
Beria was still a student in Baku in 1917. He had only joined the Bolsheviks there in March. It´s all on his Wikipedia page, NB.
Will you guys do an episode on Admiral Kolchak?
"I am grateful that you choo-choo-choose to make this project what it is today!"
Seriously, Indie?
are we not allowed to make Simpsons jokes?
Admittedly, there aren't many WWI-focused shows who do that...
Whenever Indie says Kornilov's name, I hear "Courtney Love". Makes things more interesting.
I like that ominous piano music at the end, what's the name of the track?
I was wondering, I was reading this book about ww1 and it said something about these Germans would put their gun on their thigh and shoot into the air and it would arch into the enemies trenches, if you could talk about these on out of the trenches that would be great!
Jerusalem, Sit Nomine Digna.
Please make a Second World War version of this series coming September
Just wanted to say great video but at 2:39 the factory is Italian due to the Italian flag in the background
This recap sentence made me stood for a long time, watching through my monitor.... How happy we are to live in a realatively peaceful times!? And how politicians on the international stage exists, which are willing to shake this boat for their own or rich classes gain..... Look at how both WW's began! You do not need much. And blood will be on every doorstep in Europe. Again. I truly believe that the existance of Weapons of mass distruction has held us away from WW3.... We people are interresting creatures, which will extinct ourselfs sooner or later. Tomorrow morning stand up, have your coffee, pet your dog, love your family and be thankful that you live in peace.
Great episode. So is it officially Russian civil war? The Cossacks were elite Czar soldiers. More to it than that but still
man I didn't understand a word of what Lenin said there...damn
This kills me
The fact that the Bolsheviks had majorities in the cities but were lacking in support in the countryside falls of course completely in line with marxist political thinking. After all, it is the working class that is to be expected to carry out the revolution, while the peasantry is usually to underdeveloped politically to carry out such a task.
The Bolsheviks were well aware of this fact, and it should not be forgotten that their original intent was not to only make the worker's revolution a reality in Russia, but it was the expectation that once the spark of revolution was lit in Russia, this revolutionary fire would spread to the rest of Europe, particularly Germany, where the working class constituted a much larger percent of the population.
But when the revolution remained isolated in Russia, the bolsheviks and the Russian urban workers were in deep trouble. With support from the countryside, the counter-revolution rapidly took shape, forcing the Bolsheviks to take ever more drastic measures to protect the revolution. However, in my opinion, these measures increasingly started chipping away worker's democracy and control.
The transofrmation of the Red Guards from a voluntary and democratic military force lead by workers into the Red Army that was increasingly lead by old tsarist officers, the prohibition of other parties, and most of all the prohibition of factions within the Bolshevik party were, even though they were meant to be temporary and could be justified from a military perspective in the civil war, big mistakes politically. All these measures, coupled with the barbarity of the civil war, lead to the asphyxiation of the revolution, and set up the conditions for the rise of the Stalinist bureaucracy that effectively liquidated the worldwide communist movement. Even though Trotsky himself was himself responsible for many of the mistakes that were made during the civil war, he did state that "socialism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen".
Auckland Geddes looks a lot like Woodrow Wilson.
With the British on the move in Palestine, Now would be a good time to do a special on the Aust Light horse. ( the ones with Kangaroo feathers in their hats ) PS great show
In many ways history does repeat. A century later by the week is a bit uncanny!
"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce." ---Karl Marx
6:34 "People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient...and so the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of _people."_
The war must end!! So i can stop clicking on the next episode and get something done.
Uh oh that timing tho
Jerusalem? DEUS VULT!
OsamaBinChoco
YOU HAVE SUMMONED ME!
A Random Crusader - Allah wills it Saladin wants jerusalem back
Yeah, of a Jewish State, I guess Neither Crusader nor Jihadist win
Sooo... how about apartheid israel?
Im getting more and more curious now that how the allies really won the war cuz it seems like the combat virgin American troops are not enough to compenstae for the experienced german and austro-hungarian forces coming from the east. I will (cant!) wait to learn the answer by this channel on November 2018.
Tfw you realize we're only gonna have one more year of The Great War
Just a question.. what would it take to survive the war as a soldier? I mean was being a skillful soldier enough to survive or was it just luck? Great vids btw I love it!
how do you quantity that?
Indy I want to do research about Georgian republic, the problem is that most of the sources are either in Russian or Georgian, but I can easily translate them. You did episodes about different countries and this particular period was really important for my country.
Love your channel, living in trenches since 1914.
we will have a first transcaucasia episode soon actually
The Great War, Flo. I love you. Please have a huge knowledge in this topic and I want to send to your team an interesting facts and stories which you wouldn't be able to find anywhere. I am fluent in russian, Georgian and English
Please dedcate an entire episode for Georgia, because it really played a huge role in the war, and it was major adminstrative, economical and militaristic centet of region. Georgians have plans we a huge role during Russian Parliament or after, like Stalin, Beria and others.
I think you are going to find this information really exciting and fresh.
Flo, you are the best!!!
Georgia 1918 episode could be possible
hey indie i have questions is the seebatlion same or related to the german jagers because i see google images between the german marines and the alpenjager but the look just the same because there wore green uniforms and shakos which look just the same i like to know please
1 ottoman disliked this video
Erdogan
35 as of this week apparently lol
Here's my question, if somebody can answer it, how come Russia was severally lacking in ammo, weapons, men etc during WW1, but then they had all of that fight a pretty long civil war? Just wondering, thanks.
Because the combined amount of red and white soldiers in the civil war wasn't even half of Russia's strength during WW1.
Also, the areas where battles took place didn't stretch along entire borders, but were more concentrated.
W8 so the whole soviet situation could hav been resolved if they had the alternative vote?
I believe it was Jaffa gate and not the Zion gate.
The complicated always make everything seem unsolvable.