Don't even know what to say but thank you so much for supporting me and the channel. And if you're reading this. thanks for clicking. Poured so much into this video. Thank you all so much. Please comment and like this video it helps BOOOOOOOST the video in searches! If you're new to the channel, please consider subscribing for more scripted Fire Emblem videos. And if you want to help me personally, please consider donating to my Patreon :) Subscribe: goo.gl/1xHJzR Patreon: www.patreon.com/GhastPatreon
I just learned about this lawsuit, watched + thoroughly enjoyed the video... and didn't even know you JUST released it 1 day ago. Woo. Thanks for your hard work!!!
It's fascinating to see how multifaceted this whole situation is. Honestly, I'd always taken a cursory glance at it and written it off as "Kaga got booted and made Bootleg Fire Emblem, then got sued for it". Who knew there were valid points for both parties? Yeah, Nintendo trying to claim copyright for The Entire European Fantasy Aesthetic was just plain silly, but Kaga thinking he could get away with just flat out yoinking characters and plot points from a Nintendo IP exclusively for use in advertising was just plain crazy.
@@infernaldisdain8051 creating something for others under a contract unfortunately don't constitute IP ownership. Our most recent example is the Bayonetta VA case. She did VA job under a fixed contract. The IP belong to PlatinumGames. She won't get any royalties from it even if the game make it big. Just a fixed payment. VA could tried to unionize though. Like what regular actor did. If they can prove their name carry weight for the franchise profits they could get a royalty contract. But to be honest nobody give a shit about VA in the rest of the world. Even Japan being the country where VA themselves being rather popular and their names could carry the popularity of the media are still paid at fixed based rate. Japan is a bad example though. They don't paid shit to animators, VA and what not. Even if their names carry weight.
It's sad because it would have been totally legal to say, "Made by the Creator of Fire Emblem" in the marketing and it would have probably been equally as successful. The PS1 ended up having a massive audience - even a small attach rate meant big returns on investment.
"No underhanded tactics, hidden objects, nor hidden objectives that can only be found by using a strategy guide are implemented" so he was just lying here
Is this related to berwick saga? Cuz most of what you described is actually out in the open and requires a unit wity search to find them often and the game does tell you about waiting turns to get something like items and such
@@nicholast6893 ohhh lol ya okay fair thracia is a great game with some very FUCKY tactics and other bs that screws the player over ngl I love the game still tho tbf
@@SomniaCE thracia and bws are both in my top 5 fe games (from worst aka the top 5th spot to the best aka the 1st spot) it goes 5: Radiant Dawn 4: Thracia 776 3: Path Of Radiance 2: Genealogy Of The Holy War 1: Berwick Saga (1 and 2 can swap places tbh pending on my mood)
While it would be unfair for me to attribute one professional interaction with the Kaga as the basis for my impressions of him... I did get the feeling that the man was *VERY* driven for game development when I a bunch of us contacted him for possibly fanslating Vestaria Saga just by the way he talked.... And that's something I can respect despite anything else. It really does make me want even just a peek at the alternate universe that could have been for Fire Emblem for even just a moment. Very interesting watch!
He's even more driven for story development, I've been to his blog, and though he says he's out of the game business he's still very passionate about his story ideas and you can see that even without Japanese fluency with G-translate.
He absolutely deserved to lose that second lawsuit, but I still have to sympathize with the man. His passion gave us Fire Emblem in the first place. I only hope he was able to fulfill his goals on his own terms with his own games. Truly a legend, even if he made mistakes in the process. He is only human, after all.
Weren't all of those not in use In the playstation one No normal player would be able to see or even use them ah i see i got to that point I still personally don't give a s*** mostly because public domain They're still only just a handful of games That people have hardly heard of that are in the public domain
It's all really tragic in the end. Kaga's passion had burned connections with former co-workers at IS who could've still looked up to and respected him. But being betrayed by him really set the nail in the coffin to distance themselves so much that he wasn't even referred to in name, only as the anonymous 'director'. Maybe I'm being overdramatic, but seeing as how Fire Emblem means so much to me, it hurts to know that such malious intents and practices were wrought within the series past. Thanks for the great video, it brought forth info I didn't know about before.
agreed, but it seems IS is doing fine without him i mean Three Houses was and still is a massive success, even Awakening and Yes Even Fates and it's Three Story Arcs are still considered the best FE Games out there. i think the problem is Kaga got greedy and he not only betrayed IS and Nintendo but betrayed himself but that is just my opinion i don't really pay attention to the going ons of game companies that much.
@@danielcook7975 I don't really think he got greedy, it's just he didn't have the patience to wait for a Nintendo console that could play a FE game like Tear Ring. He left IS years before, but the Gamecube launched the same year Tear Ring Saga released. Imagine what could have happened if he had waited until then.
So glad this story is getting more big attention. All we’ve had for years are scraps and theories. I’ve had my own and even as one of the lucky people who got to help Vestaria Saga 1’s localization, there were still a lot of questions in my head. Super excited for this.
@@argosleuf Thank you. It was a great opportunity to have and I’m always looking forward to what Mr. Kaga’s doing even though he’s not super public anymore.
I’ve been debating on wether i should buy vestaria, does he get any of the money from the translation(asking because the game is free in japanese and i want to support him if i can)
I knew Miyamoto occasionally gives away too much info in interviews, his famous Pikmin 4 quote for example. But learning that he did the same to all the way back in the N64 days is wild. I guess when you invent Mario you earn the sort of cache to say whatever. Or perhaps because he works on the flagship series he just asumes(ed) projects tend to progress well and release as scheduled
I went into this video with the belief that IS/Nintendo did Kaga dirty, but by the end it is clear that Kaga is a passionate game developer that made some serious errors in judgement. Thanks for the video, your passion for the subject clearly shines through.
Excellent dissection of FE64's loss and Kaga's departure. It's also interesting that learning about Famitsu(EnterBrain) and other magazines trying to sell Tearing Saga as the "Future of Fire Emblem" puts a new light on how we got Roy debuting on Smash Bros: it does feel like IS did have some form of struggle to find ways to promote Binding Blade as next entry of the series while Kaga's game was getting the hype from publications until seeing an opportunity once Sakurai came to their offices to ask about bringing Marth to Melee...
The story behind all is unreal, and while there's a ton info left to process about all, I do think it makes a good job explaining why FE6 distanced itself so much from what little is known of the mythical FE64 as we know it.
OML hearing some of my tracks in the background of this was so surreal. I’ve been a fan of yours since the So This Is Basically videos in like 2015, and you’ve been one of my biggest inspirations ever since, both in terms of UA-cam and Fitness. Just wanted to say thanks for all the years of content and I’m excited for a lot more ❤️
I knew that Shouzou Kaga managed to legitimize the existence of Tear Ring Saga, and the effects it had, I remember hearing about he losing the second trial, while I never knew exactly what it was in the second trail, I imagine it has something to do with the references to Fire Emblem being so obvious when you're start to analyze the story. I feel like Kaga was over the moon about this project, and didn't really thought about the legal ramnifications of his actions, besides the obvious thing of not literally calling his PS game "Fire Emblem". I guess the fact that Fire Emblem was his baby explains why he felt this confident about it, with this being in retrospective, a pretty wild course of action.
I like how your video was balanced and didn’t show clear bias for Kaga or Nintendo. It is very informative and useful for those who don’t know the story to this extent. I shared this on a Fire Emblem group after I saw it on my UA-cam feed and watched this. Thank you!
I feel like most people always portray Kaga as the underdog in this situation to take back his own creation but man, I always thought what he tried to pull off was downright insane. Like, my dude, you literally put "Emblem" in the title you ain't fooling no one. And I understand the feeling of taking what's yours with you, but the truth is if you're working to create something with other people within a company that IP isn't just yours for the taking. Although it might be weird coming to the realization their project grew big enough to become that in the first place. Perhaps in the NES days with a smaller team it felt more personal. Don't get me wrong, anyone and especially him got the right to do a Fire Emblem-like game, but trying to suggest it's THE Fire Emblem is kinda crazy.
I mean he was the man behind the game so it could be argued that whatever he made would be the "real" Fire Emblem. He just got too brazen with his attempt to usurp the fanbase. Reminds me of how Natsume walked off with the name "Harvest Moon" yet none of their rip offs can hope to match the real monogatari games.
I definitely feel for the guy who wanted to make a finale to the story he started, but was caught between waiting a decade for nintendo hardware to catch up or having abandon the work in progress and start over from scratch somewhere else. I wish he could have made a legal deal to license things or buy out his IP or something. But just straight up saying in interviews that he's making a sequel to a nintendo game with one of nintendo's primary competitors? Stealing development assets for a game that one team was working on and taking them with him to a different team? That's very much not a valid solution.
Thanks for making this video. It’s a topic people would be interested about but the bits and pieces are definitely hard to put together. Don’t push yourself too hard man. Your community posts and Twitter make it seem like your very stressed. Much love.
I see that Kaga has the same obsession I do. That being "Can we get another Archanea game tho?" But seriously, I think this is the perfect representation of a creative interest vs. Company loyalty, good and bad. Kaga had loyalty to himself and to videogame development, and most people would agree with him to "stuff it" to the big corps, but that's now how it works. In reality, it just meant big corp. Sony could gain more power instead. What hurts though, and what I don't think Kaga intended, is that he also wasn't loyal to his fans nor his co-workers. He had such a passion for his ideas that he abandoned anyone else who might've loved creating the series with him, and in making this choice, he would never truly make that next Archanea game. Creators like Igarashi also weren't so lucky, and were moreso forced away from their series (RIP Castlevania), but Kaga gave FE up even when it was still in his hands. So many creators owe Kaga for his landmark first case, but most weren't actually in the same boat with him.
He would make a great Indie dev if he honed his other aspects of game development besides his lead roles. It will be a brutal path, if he loyal to himself and let no external source swaying him, his projects going to something like early days of Steam and PC gaming would have risk and reward unheard of from the time. He has potential to be a solo PC dev but the lack of engines of its time would be the largest obstacle.
Wow Ghast went above and beyond again, showcasing lost material, checking archives of niche jp message boards, literally reading the lawsuits in a foreign language. Hats off. Also the alternative title of "Kaga: The Man That Fucked Around and Found Out" is pretty funny
it's honestly such a same that there was such a fallout between nintendo and kaga, it would be great to see him help on some of the modern fire emblem games, especially with how much they borrow from previous entry's.
This is the finest scripted video you've made. The pacing was great, there were no atypical pauses, you always brought in a new interesting twist right when things were starting to get repetitive, and the information conveyed included every single facet of the truth while also addressing potential when it made sense. Pat yourself and your cowriter on the back for this, you earn every ounce of success this video brings you
Wow, excellent work here Ghast. The production of this video really shines through. As someone who really doesn't know much about Kaga this was a fascinating documentary.
It'll probably never happen now, but I think a 3rd game with Marth and the rest of the Archenea cast would be interesting. I'd personally hope it would involve combining forces with the One Kingdom of Valentia to face some great threat.
I have to wonder what the story was for that. Kaga explicitly mentioned it being a more somber game than FE3, which is intriguing since FE3 is probably the most somber game in the franchise.
Right, before this novel of a post, great vid! Unearthing some details on the second lawsuit and putting it in English is pretty fascinating, if only because it expands more on the infamous Famitsu bits on how TRS was explicitly set on FE Earth, such as him planning to have the Pegasus Sisters show up. Now, here's the rest, and admittedly, a lot of speculation that lines up a bit- at least to me lol. Kaga's lack of interest in the N64 is far from surprising when you remember that system is a nightmare to develop on, too, and did absolutely dog shit everywhere but the US for a system with Nintendo's pedigree. None of the big three consoles of that gen were really easy to program for (the Saturn takes the cake though for a myriad of reasons), but the install base of the Saturn and PSX both trumped the N64's in Japan, especially among the type of gamers likely to be interested in SRPGs. There's a reason basically every SRPG worth a damn in that gen was on those two- SRPGs generally skewed more towards teenage and older demographics, or directly at otaku, and those were the consoles that demographic usually owned. The pivot away from using a direct isometric sprite style to a more top-down/pseudo-isometric is also fascinating, since I'm pretty sure the original style in both FE64 and the Emblem Saga prototype was to chase after the more popular Tactics Ogre/FF Tactics-style of graphics. Timeline matches up pretty well, too, since Tactics Ogre SuFami was out in Oct '95 *and* outsold narrowly FE4 by the end of the SNES/SuFami's life cycle in 2002, so there's probably a bit of market trend chasing in the use of that camera anyway. But that's a bit off the point. What I mean to get at is that assuming Kaga did snatch up assets from FE64 and used them as placeholders (something we won't know ourselves unless betas or source code for both leak; completely possible in FE64's case since chunks are probably in the 2TB remaining in the unreleased Gigaleak and the public releases had test programs from the 1980s, less likely in Emblem Saga since the only known assets are on Kaga's HDDs, judging by comments he made on his blog about using various unused TRS assets as placeholder for the Vestaria games)? He was in a pickle no matter how he handled this- assuming it used the graphic engine /directly/, he'd been sued for that as stolen code/assets. But he ended up doing the smarter thing and used a top down look, which was legally a hell of a lot easier to defend. It still sucks he wasn't able to follow up FE in his own terms, but that's a whole can of worms in its own right about creator's rights and the ethics of work-for-hire and residuals and a bunch of other matters that're way beyond the scope of some guy writing a novel in a youtube comment. Nintendo unpersoning him is absolutely fucked no matter what though, since one of the few comparisons I can think of in pop media is how Bill Finger was screwed out of his credit as creator of Batman for so long by Bob Kane. Which in its own right is probably a comparison that can be made about the questions about Kaga's feelings on his characters and creations being used. Probably akin to the sorta feelings people like Jim Starlin and others have about comic book movies- happy their creations are being loved by the public and what not, but bitter about how badly they're screwed on royalties. I imagine its a bit of a similar thing for Kaga, where he's seeing his babies get international love and rake in money hand over fist, but annoyance he's effectively a nobody to the mainstream and he's not able to reap any rewards. Also calling Emblem Saga's continent "Forceria"/"Forcelia" is another eyebrow raiser, but for a completely different reason. That's the name of the setting Record of Lodoss War and its related material, Sword World and Rune Soldier, take place in and there is absolutely zero way Kaga was unaware of those works considering they're bedrocks of Japanese fantasy fiction, tabletop RPGs, and were at peak popularity concurrently with Kaga's run on Fire Emblem. That might've gotten him in some hot water too, though significantly SMALLER hot water since Group SNE isn't the juggernaut Ninty is, honestly, but that is probably the biggest bit of complete speculation on my end.
As a massive Kaga fanboy, TRS1 PS1 is genuinely my favorite game of all time, and both Berwick and the Vestarias are things I genuinely rate up above a lot of mainline FE outside of like... FE3,6, and Echoes exactly, the entire scenario where Kaga left Nintendo has always fascinated me, I knew Kaga fucked up with the unfair competition stuff, but it always felt to me based off reading a bunch of Google translated interviews and poorly translated blog posts, Kaga really is extremely passionate about the games he directs, much more so than other well known directors from modern FE like Maeda. However, I always got the impression from my own research and just seeing the fallout of the events after they happened that Kaga just... genuinely did not understand the legal ramifications of his actions while making TRS1, even if the game ended up so good, the guy was clearly banking on the FE name and his connection to FE to sell the new game, which isn't inherently unfair competition as Bloodstained is all intents and purposes just Castlevania and sold itself on its producer and his ties to the Castlevania IP, but unlike Bloodstained, Kaga just threw copyright to the wind and marketed TRS as a direct follow up to the Archenea Saga and even claimed certain characters will return, which is a big no no. At the end of the day, I do wish Kaga and Nintendo didn't have this falling out, as TRS1 being a mainline FE means more people would've actually played it, but I can't deny it's neat to see the two very different directions, and hey, while I personally prefer Kaga Saga to mainline, mainline still puts out absolute banger games like Echoes and 3H, and I never would've ended up trying Kaga's games if Awakening didn't catch my interest way back in 2014.
Tear Ring and Berwick really are great games and I came across them online. I wondered if they were related to Fire Emblem because of similarities, know I know.
a lot of horrible opinioms at the end there. Echoes and 3H being good? Blech! Awakening catching your attention despite being the FE harbinger of doom? Blech!
Damn, what a video. It definitely shows how much effort clearly went into this. Watched the entire thing and had a blast! I didn't know much about this whole story before now.
As a player who joined late into the FE scene at 3H, I played back the older games FE4 and 5 and came to appreciate srsly how amazing their stories and mechanics were. I agree Kaga is such a passionate director and a risk taker but alas because of what he did, FE will nvr become the potential it could be with Kaga. Regardless the FE we enjoy now Is still able to stand on its own. Its just a shame and i honestly dont know what to feel about this :' thank you ghast for the video!
I think it’s important to make a disntiction between legal and ethical misconduct when discussing this stuff as fans. Great video and really appreciate all the research you did and continue to do for your videos
I mean, telling fans that it's Fire Emblem when it isn't feels like both legal and ethical misconduct there, not much to make a distinction for. Like, it's probably not the only misconduct from a legal perspective, and lying to your audience to make them feel like they have to buy the game because it's part of the series is also definitely wrong morally.
@@Justic_ from an artistic perspective the only difference between TRS and fire emblem is the name. trying to market the game you made in the vein of other things you made as a creative is a way lesser sin than big evil companies like Nintendo absorbing IP from their creators and then fucking suing them over it lol
@@forte4450 But that wasn't what happened. Nintendo lost, rightfully so, in suing copyright infringement because the games were similar and the names were similar. Nintendo won, again rightfully so, because the second lawsuit was more about unfair competition. He was advertising the game as if it was a Fire Emblem game. Characters maybe coming back, the main character being related to Marth, being set in the same universe. A character was the same in all but name. Articles were published in a magazine owned by the game publisher with titles like "Fire Emblem in Playstation". To deceive the public into being confused wether this is or isn't Fire Emblem seems pretty devious and pretty clear, so as to lose a lawsuit. Besides, the IP wasn't absorbed from its creator to then fuck him over. The first game was developed both by Intelligent Systems and Nintendo, and it was published by Nintendo. So it was always a Nintendo IP. This is as if Koji Igarashi, instead of creating "Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night" with a whole new universe attached to it. Would have told the public that this new gothic metroidvania (or igavania as he has called it) "Castlevein: Dawn of Symphony" is about about killing demons of the night and vampires, with its main antagonist being the cultural icon Dracula, maybe his son appears as well and the protagonist is related to the Belmonts and it's set in the same universe as Castlevania.
@@forte4450 wasn't IS always a studio under Nintendo, initially splitting from one of their development teams. In that sense, FE belongs to Nintendo in a similar vein as Mario, Zelda or Metroid, and more so than Pokemon (although Pokemon also has other circumstances behind it now, since it's now owned by The Pokemon Company, in which both GF and Nintendo as well as several others have part in). What Kaga did could be seen as if Miyamoto went rogue, made a game like Zelda for a different console (up to here there's nothing wrong) and then advertised it as canonically part of the Zelda-series, which would of course bait all the people invested in the Zelda-series to buy the new game although they wouldn't be as invested otherwise. Like, if the point is that the game feels the same because it's from the same maker, then promote it as that, but don't promote it as part of the same series. Bayonetta did that quite well, same creator as DMC, similar vibe, but it as far as I know it never advertised itself as such, even though there are references to DMC here and there, strong enough that people were speculating they might be set in the same world, but again, they never advertised it as such and used the fans like that.
@@forte4450 The thing is how he marketed the game. He could've just say something akin to "A game that will satisfy the fans of my previous works" or the likes, instead of "I have this story that happens in a 4º new continent at the same time as the events of my first game in which a lot of cameos will occur". He just had to sell himself instead of trying to relate to FE that much. Fans already knew him, so just saying that his new work was akin to his older ones would've been enough to sell the game.
I find this absolutely fascinating. prior to this video I only heard Nintendo striking down Kaga's series for minor similarities. There is indeed a bit of truth in that, in a sense, but this video really does clarify so much. I suppose it was rather easy to assume Nintendo was just striking someone down without just cause since...well they do that a lot. I think that's why this video is important since it shows what both parties did without sugarcoating it. Excellent job to everyone involved in this project. I'm sure it was quite the effort judging by how well it turned out.
Kaga should have consulted a lawyer before giving those interviews. In fact he should have talked to one before conceptualizing tear ring saga's lore. Copyright is something a lay person would have a hard time navigate without copyright lawyer. He could have easily dodged all of the trouble he got himself in.
Yup, I'm taking that Tetsuya Takahasi learned from this because anyone who has read Xenogears Perfect Works knows that Xenogears and Xenosaga are legally not in the same universe but...
@@Chelaxim He definitely can't use outright things from the previous game but themes ideas and concepts, especially ones that are based after things in public domain are fair game. Kaga either didn't know or didn't care when the game was being made, but you'd think someone at the company he worked for would LOOK at the thing and let him know that it would never be released as it was.
This was an awesome documentary! Thank you for making it! It’s a shame everything went down like this but there are lessons for developers to take to heart from all of this.
Incredible documentary, never thought I could get so invested in such a long video but I was intrigued all the way, not just because of the topic, but also because of the way you presented it.
Amazing video, Ghast! I can barely fathom the work you must have put into this. It's incredible how you take this chapter of Fire Emblem history and make it so easy to understand AND entertaining!
For the uninformed here, Super Mario RPG 2 would eventually come out in 2000, under the more known name Paper Mario/Mario Story, and was developed by IS. If you're wondering why it's mentioned in this video.
I remember how, a few years before, I also did research on the "fall" of Kaga, searching old forums and finding interview pieces that I hoped were well translated. Thank you for making this video to make this information more shared. Also I think the worse about this situation is for Kaga's former co-workers (all the tiny hands behind ours games) which probably felt betrayled by him, who left after "killing" their last work. I just fell sad for them...
Beautiful and well researched video. I had no idea what went behind the scenes, and while i did know about Berwick in passing i just learned about TearRing... man, what a shame. Like, in better terms, the franchise would look so different as it is now, and we could probably even see Kaga passing his knowledge to pupil directors like other Nintendo and Capcom games have.
I never really commented before but I've been watching you ghast since i was in highschool and I just want to say the amount of effort and care that goes into your videos doesn't go unnoticed. Thank you for being a pillar of such good fire emblem content for all these years and congrats on 100k subscribers!
I'm very grateful and thankful for you and everyone involved in this project for making this video. I have a personal story related to this topic that I want to share. A very good friend of mine and I have known each other for about 8 years, and we both got into Fire Emblem around the same time. We taught each other different things about the games, shared our own experiences, played different games at the same time (I played Archenea first while he played Jugdral first and vise versa) and eventually played Ike's games together. While we became knee deep into this series, we both found ourselves loving Kaga's games the most and began to look into what happened between him and Nintendo. At that time, there wasn't as much information as there is in this video, so the definitive answers to this topic became largely a mystery to the both of us. Now, he's moving out of the country in a few days to live somewhere else, and we won't be able to see each other for a long time. This video came at the perfect time and actually made me emotional. A conclusion to this story and ours with this series that means so much to me, and I'm sure him too. So once again I have to thank everyone involved.
This is a part of FE history I always look back given how although I started playing FE with FE7, when I had the ability to play the older titles on my laptop around the time FE10 came out, I fell in love with the franchise even more. To this day, FE4 is still my favorite installment in the series and Kaga indirectly is the reason I want to get into game design in terms of strategy rpgs. Regarding the lawsuits, while he did mess up big time, the final statements of this video are still questions I always ask myself out of curiosity. Kaga returning to IS/Nintendo is still a pipe dream on my part, but I can only imagine how Kaga feels seeing his characters like Marth and my personal favorite Sigurd now slowly getting their international attention through FEH and Engage. Most of us in the community have bee speculating that if there is another remake to happen in the vain of Shadows of Valentia, FE4 is one of those contenders. Even more so since they were never officially released to the west so seeing Sigurd and his tale officially come out in English sounds like a big deal and it feels a bit sad that Kaga won't be partaking in it, maybe even feeling remorse about given he's always credited by fans as the creator of FE. Your videos are always beautifully crafted and I just want to say thank you as these videos help me continue to appreciate the series form their peaks and valleys.
If he had cleanly left and made his own project without sticking his foot in his mouth (my man, wtf were those interviews and articles) and not using notes from his time with nintendo there is a very real chance they could have had a partnership and Co developed a new FE game. There are stories of ex employees working with their old company as partners, look at system shock 2, that was developed by Looking Glass and Irrational Games aka Ex Looking Glass employees. Sadly, history is a cruel mistress and somethings were just never meant to be
What's funny is that, while I'd known (a little bit) about the second lawsuit, I hadn't even heard of the first one - and even if I had, I would never have connected it to the appearance of games like Mighty No. 9 and Yooka-Laylee. Anyway, I'm really impressed that you were able to put all of the pieces together in a logical way. Excellent work! Definitely your best video yet.
Miyamoto has a long history of exaggerating the progress of games. Every time he gives an estimate of how complete a game is, you should probably subtract about 20%. The same thing happened with Earthbound 64. Even today, Pikmin 4 was "nearly complete" before the switch even came out.
I’m honestly fascinated by the fact that there’s a Fire Emblem-esque game on the PlayStation that was spearheaded by the series’ original director. If it was ever officially released outside of Japan, I probably would have looked for a copy to add to my collection
Finally saw this video and I really liked it, it's a nice way to hear the full story in one shot :) Knew a lot of little things about this topic but never saw them put together, and so I missed some pieces. One thing you made me change my perspective was about Berwick and Path of Radiance, and the similarities between the two games: me and some of my friends loved to joke about them, saying stuff like " Damn Kaga forgot some notes in his office at IS", as a follow up of the "kaga did it first" joke. Now I'm starting to think that maybe some plot points about the never to be FE64 were developed by both Kaga and IS in the PS2/GC era, and that's a different perspective I've never thought about! Thanks for this video
11:31 There is a translation of that Nintendo online magazine interview (on timelyhoward) if people want to know the full contents or see a different translation of the quoted parts. It is an interesting read outside of that part (but rather off-topic for this video) especially for those who advocate for any play styles.
Honestly, this might be my favorite video of yours as of yet, and I've been watching your channel for years at this point. Thanks, it was a great dive into this confusing mess!
Such weird situations on everyone involved with this. Kaga with him not wanting to give up on his stories and make more to the point of self sabotaging, and Nintendo for moving on but having to pay tribute to a sticky situation. Thank you Ghast for documenting and compiling this information and story about FE64, something I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to know more about. Your work is a godsend.
I love the translation of the lawsuit, considering I only had machine translation to work off from. It's speculation on my part, but I don't think Kaga "fucked around and found out" with purposely misrepresenting the TRS as a FE game. It kinda looks like it was developed as one, until they had to change since Kaga doesn't own the IP. So I don't think the statements were meant to confuse, but was accurate at the time since Kaga might have thought he could make a sequel in his own universe. Not making corrections and cutting the pre-order window until after the name change definitely was a dick move though. I do remember in the second lawsuit about using things from FE5, I think he argued that it was basically an independent game that was developed in Nintendo's offices, which they decided to publish, not an actual Nintendo game, but his own independent game. Not sure if this is just dragging his former co-workers under the bus to defend himself, or maybe he legitimately just does not understand how IP law works. Granted take this with a grain of salt since I only had machine translation to work from.
The stinger in the marketing angle of the second lawsuit is Kaga's use of the heart of FE's background lore to build Tearing Saga on - the fall of the dragons/Manaketes and how their folly affects the successor human civilizations. Also, although IS distanced themselves from Kaga they never abandoned that key part of the lore, even if it took them like a decade to return to Archanea. Also I find it hilarious that the background to the lawsuits are essentially two different Archanea knock offs.
It's tough to think of it this way, but game development on the scale of early FE was always a group effort. Kaga was the leader in the project, but it wasn't ever JUST Kaga doing the work. So it's tough for me to look at how FE material made during his era as lead being used today as an "insult" or anything of that nature since IS was a collective of creators that made those games what they are.
Exactly. No one can claim exclusive ownership over any game, even if they can claim the original idea was theirs, or their vision led the project. They are not the only one who made it or even influenced its ideas.
See the biggest "What If?" question about this I always come back to is, if we lived in a specific world where a creator got to take their creations, their IP and so on with them when they left a company, what would Smash Bros. have looked like in that alternate history? Everything from Melee onward would have been on a different trajectory of varying size, I guess depending on if you feel Marth and Roy being characters in the game added more to the title, especially right at the release of the game.
What do you mean “onward” the series would have died with melee. Sakurai at the time despise how the community turn his game into something it’s wasn’t supposed to be and Brawl was only made because of Iwata catch him by surprise at E3 and asked him to make the game.
@@Nortrodamas Oh no I mean like, Melee itself might have turned out just a tiny bit different going by the timeline of events. All Fire Emblem related things would have been a no-go to include in a scenario where Kaga left but was able to take the Fire Emblem brand with him.
It's always been so wild to me that Nintendo would be willing to bury the hatchet with Square for doing something way more obviously damaging to them and their hardware, but Kaga is just dead to them forever.
Well, in regards to square it could be one of pragmatism, considering they are the company you think of when you hear of the JRPG Genre. Meanwhile Kaga, while talented, is a single person, not a multi-billion Studio.
I'd like to imagine, if their relationship didn't sour as much as it did, we would have eventually gotten a crossover between the two series. The director just fked by being too passionate and not wanting to abandon his creation in his impatience...
This is something I really never knew about. Yes, I binge this a lot but I had no idea that the lawsuits that occur from this would pretty much have Nintendo blacklist Shouzou Kaga. I can understand his passion but this guy should have considered studying copyright law. You forgot to add the 0:00 otherwise the time codes won't work.
The correct translation of Kaga’s comment about strategy guides only makes the fact that you DO need a strategy guide to have any chance of completing Thracia 776 (the only FE to have that distinction) even more hilarious. That shit literally belongs in the “So that was a fucking lie” meme template 😂
This is your best video yet Ghast. From the presentation and editing to the research and information provided. So much of this period in FE's history felt so vague and it was fascinating to learn about Kaga's ambitions as well as his "downfall" for lack of a better word. Truly a modern day Icarus, like you said. Thanks for putting so much work into telling this tale as I'm sure many of us really appreciate it. Keep it up man!
"Appreciated the art not the artists" Well It's not like Kaga made everything by himself there are tons of people behind the game Just because Director leaves doesn't mean the effort of other people should be going in vain IS and Nintendo can still appreciated older games because They made it and Kaga happened to be Director
This was so beautifully put together, it really did a great job at highlighting the key subjects and putting a spotlight on the important shifts the series turns in. This video helped my appreciation for this Series and everyone who's busted their ass countless times for it. Great work! :))(:
24:37 It's really ironic how this portrait was already changed to avoid copyright-trouble.(The original blue haired one is still unused in the game's files tho.) it's also incredibly funny how it is possible that IS and Nintendo actually Uno-reversed the Law definitions into Kaga's face in the end. Even tho I couldn't speak for it because I never really looked into the Saga games, many say that FE7 is to TRS what TRS was to Kaga-FE.
Super solid video but the title + thumbnail are so vague that I almost didn’t click. Like something about “how FE lost its creator” would work much better than “great betrayal” You did an excellent job laying out the whole timeline of events though and digging into all of the interviews. Kinda funny to see TRS and Berwick outsell FE games when they’re thought to be so much more obscure
I loved the kaga era games, I technically grew up playing them still being pretty young when I did and it’s so sad seeing his work get rug pulled from him just for not being faithful in a product that he ended up being right on.
Kaga definitely burnt too many bridges in his attempts to take his series onto his own hands. I do empathize with his passion and these events do not change that he is an amazing game developer, but he sealed his own fate to be forever separated from the franchise he loved due to certain actions taken. Things could’ve been different if his approach was less confrontational and perhaps Nintendo could have stayed in amicable relations with him after his departure. Too many what if’s that I have to assume Kaga thinks about himself.
No. This is nothing. Artists already don't have much, they are treated as outcasts sitting in their room. When their idea gets recognition, people bring intellectual property and what not. He never did it for money, he just wanted to pay respect to his craft and his audience. When he saw that nintendo will not allow him to do that, he leaved the company. Nintendo says he stole some design documents. Design documents that HE designed in the first place.
Damn. The part that hit me the most wasn’t even anything Fire Emblem but the fact Miyamoto mentioned there was going to be a Super Mario RPG 2. Years later and still nothing. I just want to see Geno again.
@@asneakylawngnome5792 My response was to your "Years later and still nothing." The "Super Mario RPG 2" Miyamoto was specifically referring to here was the game that eventually became Paper Mario: Intelligent Systems was developing it simultaneously with Fire Emblem 64.
Such a good and interesting video. I always wondered what happened to the creator and how and why he left IS. I liked this video so much. Sorry if I misspelt something, english is not my native language.
What a well-made and interesting video! The whole story honestly just makes me sad, and I wish it could've been worked out differently between the two parties...
Fantastic! I knew the general details of the Kaga story, but not quite like this. Props to yourself and everyone else who helped make this wonderful video.
When your best unit gets recruited by the enemy because your lord didn't have enough skill and the level threshold and then proceeds to crit your growths project unit. Maybe I should have bough the strategy guide to know this was going to happen😂
So, the main issue was that Kaga was deliberately misleading the public to buy his game. Yeah, he deserved that slap on the wrist. Doesn't matter how much of a legend he is, that's an jerk move. If he was as cautious as he was ambitious, he wouldn't have had this problem. Really, if he wanted his "one more", he could have waited for it if it meant that much to him. Now, he's stuck with only RPGMaker (which isn't bad by any means, but that's not the point) instead of being able to make his worlds/visions really come alive and he's burnt any bridges he could have hoped to cross to make it back. This here's a legendary cautionary tale if anything.
![The Dimitri Documentary. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #21] Fire Emblem: Three Houses](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MbACngcWkEE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Dimitri Documentary. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #21] Fire Emblem: Three Houses](/img/tr.png)
![Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded [1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OGTrPWNwQyY/mqdefault.jpg)
Don't even know what to say but thank you so much for supporting me and the channel. And if you're reading this. thanks for clicking. Poured so much into this video. Thank you all so much. Please comment and like this video it helps BOOOOOOOST the video in searches! If you're new to the channel, please consider subscribing for more scripted Fire Emblem videos.
And if you want to help me personally, please consider donating to my Patreon :)
Subscribe: goo.gl/1xHJzR
Patreon: www.patreon.com/GhastPatreon
Easily your best video ever, dude. Great work!
Great video, still waiting on the Claude support science video
I just learned about this lawsuit, watched + thoroughly enjoyed the video... and didn't even know you JUST released it 1 day ago. Woo. Thanks for your hard work!!!
It's fascinating to see how multifaceted this whole situation is. Honestly, I'd always taken a cursory glance at it and written it off as "Kaga got booted and made Bootleg Fire Emblem, then got sued for it". Who knew there were valid points for both parties? Yeah, Nintendo trying to claim copyright for The Entire European Fantasy Aesthetic was just plain silly, but Kaga thinking he could get away with just flat out yoinking characters and plot points from a Nintendo IP exclusively for use in advertising was just plain crazy.
Kaga was always a mad man
Yeah, he thought he owned it because he created it, not exactly crazy, just unknowing of the law.
@@infernaldisdain8051 creating something for others under a contract unfortunately don't constitute IP ownership. Our most recent example is the Bayonetta VA case. She did VA job under a fixed contract. The IP belong to PlatinumGames. She won't get any royalties from it even if the game make it big. Just a fixed payment. VA could tried to unionize though. Like what regular actor did. If they can prove their name carry weight for the franchise profits they could get a royalty contract. But to be honest nobody give a shit about VA in the rest of the world. Even Japan being the country where VA themselves being rather popular and their names could carry the popularity of the media are still paid at fixed based rate. Japan is a bad example though. They don't paid shit to animators, VA and what not. Even if their names carry weight.
J.R.R Tolkien actually came up with that medieval fantasy aesthetic, not Nintendo
@@unicorntomboy9736 not really though
It's sad because it would have been totally legal to say, "Made by the Creator of Fire Emblem" in the marketing and it would have probably been equally as successful. The PS1 ended up having a massive audience - even a small attach rate meant big returns on investment.
"No underhanded tactics, hidden objects, nor hidden objectives that can only be found by using a strategy guide are implemented"
so he was just lying here
Is this related to berwick saga? Cuz most of what you described is actually out in the open and requires a unit wity search to find them often and the game does tell you about waiting turns to get something like items and such
@@nicholast6893 ohhh lol ya okay fair thracia is a great game with some very FUCKY tactics and other bs that screws the player over ngl I love the game still tho tbf
@@RocketSlime Cause its an amazing game
@@SomniaCE thracia and bws are both in my top 5 fe games (from worst aka the top 5th spot to the best aka the 1st spot) it goes
5: Radiant Dawn
4: Thracia 776
3: Path Of Radiance
2: Genealogy Of The Holy War
1: Berwick Saga
(1 and 2 can swap places tbh pending on my mood)
While it would be unfair for me to attribute one professional interaction with the Kaga as the basis for my impressions of him... I did get the feeling that the man was *VERY* driven for game development when I a bunch of us contacted him for possibly fanslating Vestaria Saga just by the way he talked.... And that's something I can respect despite anything else.
It really does make me want even just a peek at the alternate universe that could have been for Fire Emblem for even just a moment.
Very interesting watch!
He's even more driven for story development, I've been to his blog, and though he says he's out of the game business he's still very passionate about his story ideas and you can see that even without Japanese fluency with G-translate.
At least the FE1 remaster from 2020 still left his name in the credits.
He absolutely deserved to lose that second lawsuit, but I still have to sympathize with the man. His passion gave us Fire Emblem in the first place. I only hope he was able to fulfill his goals on his own terms with his own games. Truly a legend, even if he made mistakes in the process. He is only human, after all.
I think so. The games he made on PSX and PS2 are pretty much what you'd expect from him. I need to get back to playing them on emulator.
Weren't all of those not in use In the playstation one No normal player would be able to see or even use them ah i see i got to that point I still personally don't give a s*** mostly because public domain
They're still only just a handful of games That people have hardly heard of that are in the public domain
He's been making Vestaria Saga1 and 2 recently, you can find them on Steam.
no one deserves to be alienated from their own creation because ideas just happen to be things we let people buy and sell
Nintendo destroyed the FE franchise now we have garbage like FE Engage
Kaga was right the whole time
It's all really tragic in the end. Kaga's passion had burned connections with former co-workers at IS who could've still looked up to and respected him. But being betrayed by him really set the nail in the coffin to distance themselves so much that he wasn't even referred to in name, only as the anonymous 'director'. Maybe I'm being overdramatic, but seeing as how Fire Emblem means so much to me, it hurts to know that such malious intents and practices were wrought within the series past. Thanks for the great video, it brought forth info I didn't know about before.
agreed, but it seems IS is doing fine without him i mean Three Houses was and still is a massive success, even Awakening and Yes Even Fates and it's Three Story Arcs are still considered the best FE Games out there.
i think the problem is Kaga got greedy and he not only betrayed IS and Nintendo but betrayed himself but that is just my opinion i don't really pay attention to the going ons of game companies that much.
@@danielcook7975 I don't really think he got greedy, it's just he didn't have the patience to wait for a Nintendo console that could play a FE game like Tear Ring.
He left IS years before, but the Gamecube launched the same year Tear Ring Saga released. Imagine what could have happened if he had waited until then.
I forget, was Kaga the quintessential creator of Fire Emblem or was it Gunpei Yokoi?
@@BlueSunStudios1 Pretty sure it was Kaga.
@@danielcook7975 well Three Houses is the biggest game ever in sales in FE so they probably going to milk it. like square with FE7
kaga's defense was throwing fr
So glad this story is getting more big attention. All we’ve had for years are scraps and theories. I’ve had my own and even as one of the lucky people who got to help Vestaria Saga 1’s localization, there were still a lot of questions in my head. Super excited for this.
Dude you’re awesome.
@@argosleuf Thank you. It was a great opportunity to have and I’m always looking forward to what Mr. Kaga’s doing even though he’s not super public anymore.
I’ve been debating on wether i should buy vestaria, does he get any of the money from the translation(asking because the game is free in japanese and i want to support him if i can)
@@emperortoho I actually don’t know details like that. It was all pretty secretive but I imagine he would in some form.
hi oomfie
I knew Miyamoto occasionally gives away too much info in interviews, his famous Pikmin 4 quote for example. But learning that he did the same to all the way back in the N64 days is wild. I guess when you invent Mario you earn the sort of cache to say whatever. Or perhaps because he works on the flagship series he just asumes(ed) projects tend to progress well and release as scheduled
Luckily the pikmin 4 quote ended up actually aging well but besides the point
I went into this video with the belief that IS/Nintendo did Kaga dirty, but by the end it is clear that Kaga is a passionate game developer that made some serious errors in judgement. Thanks for the video, your passion for the subject clearly shines through.
Excellent dissection of FE64's loss and Kaga's departure.
It's also interesting that learning about Famitsu(EnterBrain) and other magazines trying to sell Tearing Saga as the "Future of Fire Emblem" puts a new light on how we got Roy debuting on Smash Bros: it does feel like IS did have some form of struggle to find ways to promote Binding Blade as next entry of the series while Kaga's game was getting the hype from publications until seeing an opportunity once Sakurai came to their offices to ask about bringing Marth to Melee...
The story behind all is unreal, and while there's a ton info left to process about all, I do think it makes a good job explaining why FE6 distanced itself so much from what little is known of the mythical FE64 as we know it.
OML hearing some of my tracks in the background of this was so surreal. I’ve been a fan of yours since the So This Is Basically videos in like 2015, and you’ve been one of my biggest inspirations ever since, both in terms of UA-cam and Fitness. Just wanted to say thanks for all the years of content and I’m excited for a lot more ❤️
I knew that Shouzou Kaga managed to legitimize the existence of Tear Ring Saga, and the effects it had, I remember hearing about he losing the second trial, while I never knew exactly what it was in the second trail, I imagine it has something to do with the references to Fire Emblem being so obvious when you're start to analyze the story.
I feel like Kaga was over the moon about this project, and didn't really thought about the legal ramnifications of his actions, besides the obvious thing of not literally calling his PS game "Fire Emblem". I guess the fact that Fire Emblem was his baby explains why he felt this confident about it, with this being in retrospective, a pretty wild course of action.
I like how your video was balanced and didn’t show clear bias for Kaga or Nintendo. It is very informative and useful for those who don’t know the story to this extent. I shared this on a Fire Emblem group after I saw it on my UA-cam feed and watched this. Thank you!
I feel like most people always portray Kaga as the underdog in this situation to take back his own creation but man, I always thought what he tried to pull off was downright insane.
Like, my dude, you literally put "Emblem" in the title you ain't fooling no one. And I understand the feeling of taking what's yours with you, but the truth is if you're working to create something with other people within a company that IP isn't just yours for the taking.
Although it might be weird coming to the realization their project grew big enough to become that in the first place. Perhaps in the NES days with a smaller team it felt more personal.
Don't get me wrong, anyone and especially him got the right to do a Fire Emblem-like game, but trying to suggest it's THE Fire Emblem is kinda crazy.
I mean he was the man behind the game so it could be argued that whatever he made would be the "real" Fire Emblem. He just got too brazen with his attempt to usurp the fanbase. Reminds me of how Natsume walked off with the name "Harvest Moon" yet none of their rip offs can hope to match the real monogatari games.
FE Engage is garbage
I definitely feel for the guy who wanted to make a finale to the story he started, but was caught between waiting a decade for nintendo hardware to catch up or having abandon the work in progress and start over from scratch somewhere else. I wish he could have made a legal deal to license things or buy out his IP or something.
But just straight up saying in interviews that he's making a sequel to a nintendo game with one of nintendo's primary competitors? Stealing development assets for a game that one team was working on and taking them with him to a different team? That's very much not a valid solution.
Fr, I have to wonder why he didn't just stay with Nintendo if he was just planning on making more Fire Emblem games anyways
Thanks for making this video. It’s a topic people would be interested about but the bits and pieces are definitely hard to put together.
Don’t push yourself too hard man. Your community posts and Twitter make it seem like your very stressed. Much love.
I see that Kaga has the same obsession I do. That being "Can we get another Archanea game tho?" But seriously, I think this is the perfect representation of a creative interest vs. Company loyalty, good and bad. Kaga had loyalty to himself and to videogame development, and most people would agree with him to "stuff it" to the big corps, but that's now how it works. In reality, it just meant big corp. Sony could gain more power instead. What hurts though, and what I don't think Kaga intended, is that he also wasn't loyal to his fans nor his co-workers. He had such a passion for his ideas that he abandoned anyone else who might've loved creating the series with him, and in making this choice, he would never truly make that next Archanea game. Creators like Igarashi also weren't so lucky, and were moreso forced away from their series (RIP Castlevania), but Kaga gave FE up even when it was still in his hands. So many creators owe Kaga for his landmark first case, but most weren't actually in the same boat with him.
What a shame. The Archanea game would've been sick af.
He would make a great Indie dev if he honed his other aspects of game development besides his lead roles. It will be a brutal path, if he loyal to himself and let no external source swaying him, his projects going to something like early days of Steam and PC gaming would have risk and reward unheard of from the time.
He has potential to be a solo PC dev but the lack of engines of its time would be the largest obstacle.
@@Aereto but he IS a indie dev now, Vestaria is still ongoing
Wow Ghast went above and beyond again, showcasing lost material, checking archives of niche jp message boards, literally reading the lawsuits in a foreign language. Hats off.
Also the alternative title of "Kaga: The Man That Fucked Around and Found Out" is pretty funny
Kaga, the man burned by his own fire... emblem
it's honestly such a same that there was such a fallout between nintendo and kaga, it would be great to see him help on some of the modern fire emblem games, especially with how much they borrow from previous entry's.
This is the finest scripted video you've made. The pacing was great, there were no atypical pauses, you always brought in a new interesting twist right when things were starting to get repetitive, and the information conveyed included every single facet of the truth while also addressing potential when it made sense.
Pat yourself and your cowriter on the back for this, you earn every ounce of success this video brings you
Wow, excellent work here Ghast. The production of this video really shines through. As someone who really doesn't know much about Kaga this was a fascinating documentary.
It'll probably never happen now, but I think a 3rd game with Marth and the rest of the Archenea cast would be interesting. I'd personally hope it would involve combining forces with the One Kingdom of Valentia to face some great threat.
Technically, Awakening counts as a 3rd Achanea game.
But I know what you mean.
Obviously, the great threat is Medeus resurrecting _again._
I have to wonder what the story was for that. Kaga explicitly mentioned it being a more somber game than FE3, which is intriguing since FE3 is probably the most somber game in the franchise.
@@omarmansuri7099 even more somber than FE8?
It would have to be a threat ALMOST as big as Grima will end up being.
These Transitions are so cool , They're uncanny, they're scary. They definitely feel like the lost dreams and the dying of a planned project.
Right, before this novel of a post, great vid! Unearthing some details on the second lawsuit and putting it in English is pretty fascinating, if only because it expands more on the infamous Famitsu bits on how TRS was explicitly set on FE Earth, such as him planning to have the Pegasus Sisters show up.
Now, here's the rest, and admittedly, a lot of speculation that lines up a bit- at least to me lol.
Kaga's lack of interest in the N64 is far from surprising when you remember that system is a nightmare to develop on, too, and did absolutely dog shit everywhere but the US for a system with Nintendo's pedigree. None of the big three consoles of that gen were really easy to program for (the Saturn takes the cake though for a myriad of reasons), but the install base of the Saturn and PSX both trumped the N64's in Japan, especially among the type of gamers likely to be interested in SRPGs. There's a reason basically every SRPG worth a damn in that gen was on those two- SRPGs generally skewed more towards teenage and older demographics, or directly at otaku, and those were the consoles that demographic usually owned.
The pivot away from using a direct isometric sprite style to a more top-down/pseudo-isometric is also fascinating, since I'm pretty sure the original style in both FE64 and the Emblem Saga prototype was to chase after the more popular Tactics Ogre/FF Tactics-style of graphics. Timeline matches up pretty well, too, since Tactics Ogre SuFami was out in Oct '95 *and* outsold narrowly FE4 by the end of the SNES/SuFami's life cycle in 2002, so there's probably a bit of market trend chasing in the use of that camera anyway. But that's a bit off the point.
What I mean to get at is that assuming Kaga did snatch up assets from FE64 and used them as placeholders (something we won't know ourselves unless betas or source code for both leak; completely possible in FE64's case since chunks are probably in the 2TB remaining in the unreleased Gigaleak and the public releases had test programs from the 1980s, less likely in Emblem Saga since the only known assets are on Kaga's HDDs, judging by comments he made on his blog about using various unused TRS assets as placeholder for the Vestaria games)? He was in a pickle no matter how he handled this- assuming it used the graphic engine /directly/, he'd been sued for that as stolen code/assets. But he ended up doing the smarter thing and used a top down look, which was legally a hell of a lot easier to defend.
It still sucks he wasn't able to follow up FE in his own terms, but that's a whole can of worms in its own right about creator's rights and the ethics of work-for-hire and residuals and a bunch of other matters that're way beyond the scope of some guy writing a novel in a youtube comment. Nintendo unpersoning him is absolutely fucked no matter what though, since one of the few comparisons I can think of in pop media is how Bill Finger was screwed out of his credit as creator of Batman for so long by Bob Kane.
Which in its own right is probably a comparison that can be made about the questions about Kaga's feelings on his characters and creations being used. Probably akin to the sorta feelings people like Jim Starlin and others have about comic book movies- happy their creations are being loved by the public and what not, but bitter about how badly they're screwed on royalties. I imagine its a bit of a similar thing for Kaga, where he's seeing his babies get international love and rake in money hand over fist, but annoyance he's effectively a nobody to the mainstream and he's not able to reap any rewards.
Also calling Emblem Saga's continent "Forceria"/"Forcelia" is another eyebrow raiser, but for a completely different reason. That's the name of the setting Record of Lodoss War and its related material, Sword World and Rune Soldier, take place in and there is absolutely zero way Kaga was unaware of those works considering they're bedrocks of Japanese fantasy fiction, tabletop RPGs, and were at peak popularity concurrently with Kaga's run on Fire Emblem. That might've gotten him in some hot water too, though significantly SMALLER hot water since Group SNE isn't the juggernaut Ninty is, honestly, but that is probably the biggest bit of complete speculation on my end.
As a massive Kaga fanboy, TRS1 PS1 is genuinely my favorite game of all time, and both Berwick and the Vestarias are things I genuinely rate up above a lot of mainline FE outside of like... FE3,6, and Echoes exactly, the entire scenario where Kaga left Nintendo has always fascinated me, I knew Kaga fucked up with the unfair competition stuff, but it always felt to me based off reading a bunch of Google translated interviews and poorly translated blog posts, Kaga really is extremely passionate about the games he directs, much more so than other well known directors from modern FE like Maeda. However, I always got the impression from my own research and just seeing the fallout of the events after they happened that Kaga just... genuinely did not understand the legal ramifications of his actions while making TRS1, even if the game ended up so good, the guy was clearly banking on the FE name and his connection to FE to sell the new game, which isn't inherently unfair competition as Bloodstained is all intents and purposes just Castlevania and sold itself on its producer and his ties to the Castlevania IP, but unlike Bloodstained, Kaga just threw copyright to the wind and marketed TRS as a direct follow up to the Archenea Saga and even claimed certain characters will return, which is a big no no. At the end of the day, I do wish Kaga and Nintendo didn't have this falling out, as TRS1 being a mainline FE means more people would've actually played it, but I can't deny it's neat to see the two very different directions, and hey, while I personally prefer Kaga Saga to mainline, mainline still puts out absolute banger games like Echoes and 3H, and I never would've ended up trying Kaga's games if Awakening didn't catch my interest way back in 2014.
Tear Ring and Berwick really are great games and I came across them online. I wondered if they were related to Fire Emblem because of similarities, know I know.
a lot of horrible opinioms at the end there. Echoes and 3H being good? Blech!
Awakening catching your attention despite being the FE harbinger of doom? Blech!
Damn, what a video. It definitely shows how much effort clearly went into this. Watched the entire thing and had a blast! I didn't know much about this whole story before now.
As a player who joined late into the FE scene at 3H, I played back the older games FE4 and 5 and came to appreciate srsly how amazing their stories and mechanics were. I agree Kaga is such a passionate director and a risk taker but alas because of what he did, FE will nvr become the potential it could be with Kaga. Regardless the FE we enjoy now Is still able to stand on its own. Its just a shame and i honestly dont know what to feel about this :' thank you ghast for the video!
I think it’s important to make a disntiction between legal and ethical misconduct when discussing this stuff as fans. Great video and really appreciate all the research you did and continue to do for your videos
I mean, telling fans that it's Fire Emblem when it isn't feels like both legal and ethical misconduct there, not much to make a distinction for. Like, it's probably not the only misconduct from a legal perspective, and lying to your audience to make them feel like they have to buy the game because it's part of the series is also definitely wrong morally.
@@Justic_ from an artistic perspective the only difference between TRS and fire emblem is the name. trying to market the game you made in the vein of other things you made as a creative is a way lesser sin than big evil companies like Nintendo absorbing IP from their creators and then fucking suing them over it lol
@@forte4450 But that wasn't what happened.
Nintendo lost, rightfully so, in suing copyright infringement because the games were similar and the names were similar.
Nintendo won, again rightfully so, because the second lawsuit was more about unfair competition. He was advertising the game as if it was a Fire Emblem game. Characters maybe coming back, the main character being related to Marth, being set in the same universe. A character was the same in all but name. Articles were published in a magazine owned by the game publisher with titles like "Fire Emblem in Playstation". To deceive the public into being confused wether this is or isn't Fire Emblem seems pretty devious and pretty clear, so as to lose a lawsuit.
Besides, the IP wasn't absorbed from its creator to then fuck him over. The first game was developed both by Intelligent Systems and Nintendo, and it was published by Nintendo. So it was always a Nintendo IP.
This is as if Koji Igarashi, instead of creating "Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night" with a whole new universe attached to it. Would have told the public that this new gothic metroidvania (or igavania as he has called it) "Castlevein: Dawn of Symphony" is about about killing demons of the night and vampires, with its main antagonist being the cultural icon Dracula, maybe his son appears as well and the protagonist is related to the Belmonts and it's set in the same universe as Castlevania.
@@forte4450 wasn't IS always a studio under Nintendo, initially splitting from one of their development teams. In that sense, FE belongs to Nintendo in a similar vein as Mario, Zelda or Metroid, and more so than Pokemon (although Pokemon also has other circumstances behind it now, since it's now owned by The Pokemon Company, in which both GF and Nintendo as well as several others have part in). What Kaga did could be seen as if Miyamoto went rogue, made a game like Zelda for a different console (up to here there's nothing wrong) and then advertised it as canonically part of the Zelda-series, which would of course bait all the people invested in the Zelda-series to buy the new game although they wouldn't be as invested otherwise.
Like, if the point is that the game feels the same because it's from the same maker, then promote it as that, but don't promote it as part of the same series. Bayonetta did that quite well, same creator as DMC, similar vibe, but it as far as I know it never advertised itself as such, even though there are references to DMC here and there, strong enough that people were speculating they might be set in the same world, but again, they never advertised it as such and used the fans like that.
@@forte4450 The thing is how he marketed the game. He could've just say something akin to "A game that will satisfy the fans of my previous works" or the likes, instead of "I have this story that happens in a 4º new continent at the same time as the events of my first game in which a lot of cameos will occur". He just had to sell himself instead of trying to relate to FE that much. Fans already knew him, so just saying that his new work was akin to his older ones would've been enough to sell the game.
I find this absolutely fascinating. prior to this video I only heard Nintendo striking down Kaga's series for minor similarities. There is indeed a bit of truth in that, in a sense, but this video really does clarify so much. I suppose it was rather easy to assume Nintendo was just striking someone down without just cause since...well they do that a lot. I think that's why this video is important since it shows what both parties did without sugarcoating it. Excellent job to everyone involved in this project. I'm sure it was quite the effort judging by how well it turned out.
Kaga should have consulted a lawyer before giving those interviews. In fact he should have talked to one before conceptualizing tear ring saga's lore. Copyright is something a lay person would have a hard time navigate without copyright lawyer. He could have easily dodged all of the trouble he got himself in.
Yup, I'm taking that Tetsuya Takahasi learned from this because anyone who has read Xenogears Perfect Works knows that Xenogears and Xenosaga are legally not in the same universe but...
@@Chelaxim He definitely can't use outright things from the previous game but themes ideas and concepts, especially ones that are based after things in public domain are fair game. Kaga either didn't know or didn't care when the game was being made, but you'd think someone at the company he worked for would LOOK at the thing and let him know that it would never be released as it was.
This was an awesome documentary! Thank you for making it!
It’s a shame everything went down like this but there are lessons for developers to take to heart from all of this.
Incredible documentary, never thought I could get so invested in such a long video but I was intrigued all the way, not just because of the topic, but also because of the way you presented it.
The production on this video is on another level
I’m glad you changed the title because honestly I had no clue what the video was about as an outsider looking in with the old one
Fantastic video, ghast. It's surreal just to see the incredible artwork from that time, and how much weight it holds after all this information.
Amazing video, Ghast! I can barely fathom the work you must have put into this. It's incredible how you take this chapter of Fire Emblem history and make it so easy to understand AND entertaining!
For the uninformed here, Super Mario RPG 2 would eventually come out in 2000, under the more known name Paper Mario/Mario Story, and was developed by IS. If you're wondering why it's mentioned in this video.
I remember how, a few years before, I also did research on the "fall" of Kaga, searching old forums and finding interview pieces that I hoped were well translated.
Thank you for making this video to make this information more shared.
Also I think the worse about this situation is for Kaga's former co-workers (all the tiny hands behind ours games) which probably felt betrayled by him, who left after "killing" their last work. I just fell sad for them...
Beautiful and well researched video.
I had no idea what went behind the scenes, and while i did know about Berwick in passing i just learned about TearRing...
man, what a shame. Like, in better terms, the franchise would look so different as it is now, and we could probably even see Kaga passing his knowledge to pupil directors like other Nintendo and Capcom games have.
I never really commented before but I've been watching you ghast since i was in highschool and I just want to say the amount of effort and care that goes into your videos doesn't go unnoticed. Thank you for being a pillar of such good fire emblem content for all these years and congrats on 100k subscribers!
I'm very grateful and thankful for you and everyone involved in this project for making this video.
I have a personal story related to this topic that I want to share. A very good friend of mine and I have known each other for about 8 years, and we both got into Fire Emblem around the same time. We taught each other different things about the games, shared our own experiences, played different games at the same time (I played Archenea first while he played Jugdral first and vise versa) and eventually played Ike's games together. While we became knee deep into this series, we both found ourselves loving Kaga's games the most and began to look into what happened between him and Nintendo. At that time, there wasn't as much information as there is in this video, so the definitive answers to this topic became largely a mystery to the both of us. Now, he's moving out of the country in a few days to live somewhere else, and we won't be able to see each other for a long time. This video came at the perfect time and actually made me emotional. A conclusion to this story and ours with this series that means so much to me, and I'm sure him too. So once again I have to thank everyone involved.
This is a part of FE history I always look back given how although I started playing FE with FE7, when I had the ability to play the older titles on my laptop around the time FE10 came out, I fell in love with the franchise even more. To this day, FE4 is still my favorite installment in the series and Kaga indirectly is the reason I want to get into game design in terms of strategy rpgs.
Regarding the lawsuits, while he did mess up big time, the final statements of this video are still questions I always ask myself out of curiosity. Kaga returning to IS/Nintendo is still a pipe dream on my part, but I can only imagine how Kaga feels seeing his characters like Marth and my personal favorite Sigurd now slowly getting their international attention through FEH and Engage.
Most of us in the community have bee speculating that if there is another remake to happen in the vain of Shadows of Valentia, FE4 is one of those contenders. Even more so since they were never officially released to the west so seeing Sigurd and his tale officially come out in English sounds like a big deal and it feels a bit sad that Kaga won't be partaking in it, maybe even feeling remorse about given he's always credited by fans as the creator of FE.
Your videos are always beautifully crafted and I just want to say thank you as these videos help me continue to appreciate the series form their peaks and valleys.
If he had cleanly left and made his own project without sticking his foot in his mouth (my man, wtf were those interviews and articles) and not using notes from his time with nintendo there is a very real chance they could have had a partnership and Co developed a new FE game.
There are stories of ex employees working with their old company as partners, look at system shock 2, that was developed by Looking Glass and Irrational Games aka Ex Looking Glass employees.
Sadly, history is a cruel mistress and somethings were just never meant to be
Such a strange past for this beloved franchise. Thank you so much for bringing this to light in such a well written and presented fashion.
What's funny is that, while I'd known (a little bit) about the second lawsuit, I hadn't even heard of the first one - and even if I had, I would never have connected it to the appearance of games like Mighty No. 9 and Yooka-Laylee.
Anyway, I'm really impressed that you were able to put all of the pieces together in a logical way. Excellent work! Definitely your best video yet.
This was amazing. Excellent work man.
Miyamoto has a long history of exaggerating the progress of games. Every time he gives an estimate of how complete a game is, you should probably subtract about 20%. The same thing happened with Earthbound 64. Even today, Pikmin 4 was "nearly complete" before the switch even came out.
I’m honestly fascinated by the fact that there’s a Fire Emblem-esque game on the PlayStation that was spearheaded by the series’ original director. If it was ever officially released outside of Japan, I probably would have looked for a copy to add to my collection
Damn I didn’t know just how bloody the history of this series was. It feels unreal at first
Finally saw this video and I really liked it, it's a nice way to hear the full story in one shot :)
Knew a lot of little things about this topic but never saw them put together, and so I missed some pieces.
One thing you made me change my perspective was about Berwick and Path of Radiance, and the similarities between the two games: me and some of my friends loved to joke about them, saying stuff like " Damn Kaga forgot some notes in his office at IS", as a follow up of the "kaga did it first" joke.
Now I'm starting to think that maybe some plot points about the never to be FE64 were developed by both Kaga and IS in the PS2/GC era, and that's a different perspective I've never thought about!
Thanks for this video
Absolutely incredible work, as always!
I've always been curious about that FE64 title and this was such a well-produced video!
11:31 There is a translation of that Nintendo online magazine interview (on timelyhoward) if people want to know the full contents or see a different translation of the quoted parts. It is an interesting read outside of that part (but rather off-topic for this video) especially for those who advocate for any play styles.
Honestly, this might be my favorite video of yours as of yet, and I've been watching your channel for years at this point. Thanks, it was a great dive into this confusing mess!
Such weird situations on everyone involved with this. Kaga with him not wanting to give up on his stories and make more to the point of self sabotaging, and Nintendo for moving on but having to pay tribute to a sticky situation.
Thank you Ghast for documenting and compiling this information and story about FE64, something I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to know more about. Your work is a godsend.
Great video!
I knew about TearRing Saga and the legal battle, but wow o_o
Learning about the details of the case was really interesting
I love the translation of the lawsuit, considering I only had machine translation to work off from.
It's speculation on my part, but I don't think Kaga "fucked around and found out" with purposely misrepresenting the TRS as a FE game.
It kinda looks like it was developed as one, until they had to change since Kaga doesn't own the IP. So I don't think the statements were meant to confuse, but was accurate at the time since Kaga might have thought he could make a sequel in his own universe. Not making corrections and cutting the pre-order window until after the name change definitely was a dick move though.
I do remember in the second lawsuit about using things from FE5, I think he argued that it was basically an independent game that was developed in Nintendo's offices, which they decided to publish, not an actual Nintendo game, but his own independent game. Not sure if this is just dragging his former co-workers under the bus to defend himself, or maybe he legitimately just does not understand how IP law works. Granted take this with a grain of salt since I only had machine translation to work from.
The stinger in the marketing angle of the second lawsuit is Kaga's use of the heart of FE's background lore to build Tearing Saga on - the fall of the dragons/Manaketes and how their folly affects the successor human civilizations.
Also, although IS distanced themselves from Kaga they never abandoned that key part of the lore, even if it took them like a decade to return to Archanea.
Also I find it hilarious that the background to the lawsuits are essentially two different Archanea knock offs.
I think this has been one of your best videos yet, major props for this, man
It's tough to think of it this way, but game development on the scale of early FE was always a group effort. Kaga was the leader in the project, but it wasn't ever JUST Kaga doing the work. So it's tough for me to look at how FE material made during his era as lead being used today as an "insult" or anything of that nature since IS was a collective of creators that made those games what they are.
Exactly. No one can claim exclusive ownership over any game, even if they can claim the original idea was theirs, or their vision led the project. They are not the only one who made it or even influenced its ideas.
but they are still just using characters he created? he came up with world of fire emblem so there would be no fire emblem without him making it up.
@@Viciouspiked literally this. There would be no fire emblem without kaga. Modern FE is cool, but it’s trying too hard to be persona.
Woah Kaga lore dropping
See the biggest "What If?" question about this I always come back to is, if we lived in a specific world where a creator got to take their creations, their IP and so on with them when they left a company, what would Smash Bros. have looked like in that alternate history? Everything from Melee onward would have been on a different trajectory of varying size, I guess depending on if you feel Marth and Roy being characters in the game added more to the title, especially right at the release of the game.
What do you mean “onward” the series would have died with melee. Sakurai at the time despise how the community turn his game into something it’s wasn’t supposed to be and Brawl was only made because of Iwata catch him by surprise at E3 and asked him to make the game.
@@Nortrodamas Oh no I mean like, Melee itself might have turned out just a tiny bit different going by the timeline of events. All Fire Emblem related things would have been a no-go to include in a scenario where Kaga left but was able to take the Fire Emblem brand with him.
@@RoyalGoldPretzels oh I see now, my bad. Yeah Smash would have an interesting roster without any FE characters
It's always been so wild to me that Nintendo would be willing to bury the hatchet with Square for doing something way more obviously damaging to them and their hardware, but Kaga is just dead to them forever.
I mean- Kaga just kinda bowed out of console games in general. It might be his choice than Nintendo's.
Well, in regards to square it could be one of pragmatism, considering they are the company you think of when you hear of the JRPG Genre. Meanwhile Kaga, while talented, is a single person, not a multi-billion Studio.
Being a newer Fire Emblem fan, a lot of this was new information to me. Fantastic documentary!
Didn't know how all the Kaga going rogue and Nintendo sueing him was, but this was extremely complete. Nice work!
I'd like to imagine, if their relationship didn't sour as much as it did, we would have eventually gotten a crossover between the two series. The director just fked by being too passionate and not wanting to abandon his creation in his impatience...
For emblem fans and gaming fans in general, this is a great documentary about gaming licenses and creators. Thanks. :)
This whole story is just sad. Great video, Ghast
This was a fascinating bit of history I didn't know about. I quite enjoyed listening to this 😊
This is something I really never knew about. Yes, I binge this a lot but I had no idea that the lawsuits that occur from this would pretty much have Nintendo blacklist Shouzou Kaga. I can understand his passion but this guy should have considered studying copyright law.
You forgot to add the 0:00 otherwise the time codes won't work.
This was such a cool video and a very interesting look into the industry
I thought I knew about this story, but holy smokes I didn’t actually
I waited to watch this, but boy do I feel dumb now! This is so well researched and written, major props to you and everyone else who worked on it!
This video was absolutely fantastic. Great job, and I hope you can feel proud of yourself
Interesting vid ghast. Pretty eye opening to all that happened. On a side the style that was put into the video was phenomenal.
A really interesting story I knew little of. Thank you and your team for all the effort!
The correct translation of Kaga’s comment about strategy guides only makes the fact that you DO need a strategy guide to have any chance of completing Thracia 776 (the only FE to have that distinction) even more hilarious. That shit literally belongs in the “So that was a fucking lie” meme template 😂
This is your best video yet Ghast. From the presentation and editing to the research and information provided. So much of this period in FE's history felt so vague and it was fascinating to learn about Kaga's ambitions as well as his "downfall" for lack of a better word. Truly a modern day Icarus, like you said. Thanks for putting so much work into telling this tale as I'm sure many of us really appreciate it. Keep it up man!
"Appreciated the art not the artists"
Well It's not like Kaga made everything by himself there are tons of people behind the game
Just because Director leaves doesn't mean the effort of other people should be going in vain
IS and Nintendo can still appreciated older games because They made it and Kaga happened to be Director
This was so beautifully put together, it really did a great job at highlighting the key subjects and putting a spotlight on the important shifts the series turns in. This video helped my appreciation for this Series and everyone who's busted their ass countless times for it. Great work! :))(:
24:37 It's really ironic how this portrait was already changed to avoid copyright-trouble.(The original blue haired one is still unused in the game's files tho.)
it's also incredibly funny how it is possible that IS and Nintendo actually Uno-reversed the Law definitions into Kaga's face in the end. Even tho I couldn't speak for it because I never really looked into the Saga games, many say that FE7 is to TRS what TRS was to Kaga-FE.
Super solid video but the title + thumbnail are so vague that I almost didn’t click. Like something about “how FE lost its creator” would work much better than “great betrayal”
You did an excellent job laying out the whole timeline of events though and digging into all of the interviews. Kinda funny to see TRS and Berwick outsell FE games when they’re thought to be so much more obscure
I love the long deep dive video format. This documentary was worth the hype !
Well... thank you for going through all this for me. I always wondering what happen after he left and why he left... but wow. Very fun video!
I loved the kaga era games, I technically grew up playing them still being pretty young when I did and it’s so sad seeing his work get rug pulled from him just for not being faithful in a product that he ended up being right on.
Kaga definitely burnt too many bridges in his attempts to take his series onto his own hands. I do empathize with his passion and these events do not change that he is an amazing game developer, but he sealed his own fate to be forever separated from the franchise he loved due to certain actions taken. Things could’ve been different if his approach was less confrontational and perhaps Nintendo could have stayed in amicable relations with him after his departure. Too many what if’s that I have to assume Kaga thinks about himself.
No. This is nothing. Artists already don't have much, they are treated as outcasts sitting in their room. When their idea gets recognition, people bring intellectual property and what not. He never did it for money, he just wanted to pay respect to his craft and his audience. When he saw that nintendo will not allow him to do that, he leaved the company. Nintendo says he stole some design documents. Design documents that HE designed in the first place.
Incredibly excited to watch this. I know a teensy bit about FE 64, but I never would’ve thought there was enough info to fill up over 45 minutes!
This was fucking fascinating. Well done man.
Damn. The part that hit me the most wasn’t even anything Fire Emblem but the fact Miyamoto mentioned there was going to be a Super Mario RPG 2. Years later and still nothing. I just want to see Geno again.
Erm, that's just Paper Mario.
@@ericriley1985 i couldn’t get into Paper Mario though. Idk, maybe I’m just a boomer now. Oh no
@@asneakylawngnome5792 My response was to your "Years later and still nothing." The "Super Mario RPG 2" Miyamoto was specifically referring to here was the game that eventually became Paper Mario: Intelligent Systems was developing it simultaneously with Fire Emblem 64.
@@ericriley1985 oooh! Completely misunderstood that whole section. I listen to these at work, so thanks for explaining!
Such a good and interesting video. I always wondered what happened to the creator and how and why he left IS. I liked this video so much. Sorry if I misspelt something, english is not my native language.
What a well-made and interesting video! The whole story honestly just makes me sad, and I wish it could've been worked out differently between the two parties...
Fantastic! I knew the general details of the Kaga story, but not quite like this. Props to yourself and everyone else who helped make this wonderful video.
quite a tragic story. Great video ghast
Oh wow, you went through AND translated the lawsuits? Must been taking months.
Great video as always man! Keep up the honest hard work.
That was awesome Thanks Faerghast!!
this was a really informative video! definitely deserves even more views than it has, amazing work.
How ironic - or perhaps apt - that the history of the development of a war game franchise is like a war in and of itself.
When your best unit gets recruited by the enemy because your lord didn't have enough skill and the level threshold and then proceeds to crit your growths project unit.
Maybe I should have bough the strategy guide to know this was going to happen😂
So, the main issue was that Kaga was deliberately misleading the public to buy his game. Yeah, he deserved that slap on the wrist. Doesn't matter how much of a legend he is, that's an jerk move.
If he was as cautious as he was ambitious, he wouldn't have had this problem. Really, if he wanted his "one more", he could have waited for it if it meant that much to him. Now, he's stuck with only RPGMaker (which isn't bad by any means, but that's not the point) instead of being able to make his worlds/visions really come alive and he's burnt any bridges he could have hoped to cross to make it back. This here's a legendary cautionary tale if anything.