I appreciate the encouragement. I don't doubt the goodness of God at all despite all this. I think its my doctrine of God that has helped me navigate all this. While God knew the sinful intentions of others before they acted on them, I do not believe He decreed any of it, but that He is capable and willing of redeeming it. My relationship with God has grown significantly during all this. Check out my latest songs "Theodicy", "Restless" and "Pointing to You" as I believe they depict my present beliefs pretty well.
Didn't God make all our inward parts and knew exactly how to make all people become believers if that was His plan? Didn't God know who both His sheep and the goats were before Creation ? God knew all this and still Created ,meaning Prov 16:4 The Lord made everything for it's own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil. This alone defeats open theism.
@CBALLEN yes, your presuppositions are at odds with Open Theism. This doesn't mean your presuppositions are correct. One will note upon examination of your claims, your assertions are additions to Scripture and not an accurate reflection of the Bible.
@IdolKiller The Lord declares the end at the very Beginning and that includes the middle too. WHO CAN SAY IT AND IT COMES TO PASS UNLESS THE LORD HAS DECREED IT? That's right, the heart of man plans his way,but the Lord decides what happens. Men want to do much,much more sin than God has decided that they do.So,if men cannot do all the sin that they truly want to do,then where is man's free will?? Men will only do what God has decreed they will do,nothing more and nothing less. We are all like David, all our days were written in God's book before a single moment was lived ,men don't like this and they will imagine all kinds of schemes to try to explain it away, but the truth remains the truth.
@CBALLEN your view denies God has any relationship to the beginning or end and flattens it all out to a single eternal decree. This is what you're reading into Scripture. Stop prooftexting in defense of an extra-Biblical presupposition and instead look at His self-revelation in Scripture and you'll see God describe Himself in ways the Classical Theist denies.
@IdolKiller Here's another thing to think about. If one is able to say,: " I made many terrible decisions in my life,but I did make one GREAT ONE " then this is boasting and since we are saved by God's grace, not by the will or works of man,then this makes it a false Gospel ,it's the same Gospel that those who'll hear,,DEPART, believed in.Remember they called Jesus Lord,they had a faith,in a Jesus, but it was a false faith,in a false Jesus. Their Gospel was based on their best decisions that they made .Eph 2:4-5 is key to the truth, IT WAS GOD WHO LOVED HIS PEOPLE, that Jesus died for and while we were still DEAD IN SIN ( GOD HATERS) ,He made us alive with Christ, by GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED!! Grace is unmerrited favor . This is the new birth and with this new birth comes THE FAITH OF CHRIST that makes us cognizant of the fact that Jesus actually saved us and this faith gives us peace with God.
If God decreed all things from eternity past which is how he has knowledge, and nothing happens that he has not decreed would happen...then God would not have to work all things for the good. If it's a decree, then God is not working anything at all. Unless you claim he decreed what he would do when he decrees person X to perform a certain action. But then even God is not free And No one is claiming that God is caught off guard or figuring things out.
It doesn't follow that if God decrees all things that He doesn't have to work all things for the good. It also doesn't follow that if God's own actions are part of the decree that He would not be free.
@@reformedpilgrim just because you say it doesn’t make it true. And yes, if God decreed everything down to the micro and moment and nothing can change it, the. His work was done upon the time of the decree. The decree is God and God is his decree. The problem is that’s not what the Bible describes. You see, I don’t have an issue if free will was a lie and that every thought deed and action was predetermined by God and I can do other than what he decreed me to do…I just don’t find it in scripture therefore that’s my problem. I’ll ask you as well, does the idea that God decrees everything that happens simply bring you comfort and peace? Why? Would you lack peace if you knew that we made choices that God does not decree and that he has to work all those things for the good? Is he unable to work all things for the good if he did not first decree the bad things that happened ?
@@beaberean3286 You said, _"His work was done upon the time of the decree."_ In what sense do you mean "done"? If it's true that His work is done upon the time of the decree, would that be a problem? Why or why not? Do you subscribe to Dynamic Omniscience/Open Theism? My feelings about God decreeing everything that happens are irrelevant. I've had my share of hurt and pain, some remarkably similar to what Idol Killer hinted at in his own life. Scripture tells me that God works it all together for good. And if there is more such hurt and pain for me in the future, then God is working that for good, as well, no matter how I feel about it. I love God, regardless of how I feel about various trials in my life.
@@reformedpilgrim if his work was done at the time of the decree then it’s not a problem at all, except that you stated that God IS working within time even though it’s the decree that determines what God does. Again, I don’t have an issue with total divine determinism except that it’s not found in the Bible. God decrees some things that are unchangeable like the cross of Christ, but other things that happen which he has not decreed, he works together for the good. I love the story of Joseph in this sense. Gods decree was that Joseph would be a ruler. But along the way, there were plans that man meant for evil, BUT GOD worked (weaved) them for the good. The reason I say “weaved” is because that’s the literal Hebrew word. חָשַׁב ḥâšaḇ - man has free will to plan and act but God will work those plans and actions for the good to show his great power. He weaves his plan into the plans of man in order to bring about His desired end and nothing can stop that. Did God know what all those evil people would freely choose to do to Joseph to hinder him? Absolutely! And so because he knew, he weaved his plan to ensure his end came about. So I’ll ask this, why it is bad or wrong for man to have free will and God to intervene in that free will to ensure his end? Since you hold free will in such a high esteem and power, doesn’t it make God even greater, bringing Him more glory in that he accomplishes his plans despite man’s free will, actions and desires?
@@beaberean3286 You said, _"if his work was done at the time of the decree then it’s not a problem at all."_ In what sense do you mean "done"? Done, as in planned out, or done as in fully completed? (Remember, you already granted that God's actions could be part of the decree.) You asked, _"why it is bad or wrong for man to have free will and God to intervene in that free will to ensure his end?"_ I don't know; I didn't say it is bad or wrong for man to have free will and God to intervene in that free will to ensure His end. In regards to your last question, could you please define "free will" in the way that you use it? Do you subscribe to Dynamic Omniscience/Open Theism?
Sorry about the low audio volume. All the volumes on the computer are cranked up, but this is the best this microphone can do.
I appreciate the encouragement. I don't doubt the goodness of God at all despite all this. I think its my doctrine of God that has helped me navigate all this. While God knew the sinful intentions of others before they acted on them, I do not believe He decreed any of it, but that He is capable and willing of redeeming it. My relationship with God has grown significantly during all this. Check out my latest songs "Theodicy", "Restless" and "Pointing to You" as I believe they depict my present beliefs pretty well.
Didn't God make all our inward parts and knew exactly how to make all people become believers if that was His plan? Didn't God know who both His sheep and the goats were before Creation ? God knew all this and still Created ,meaning Prov 16:4 The Lord made everything for it's own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil. This alone defeats open theism.
@CBALLEN yes, your presuppositions are at odds with Open Theism. This doesn't mean your presuppositions are correct. One will note upon examination of your claims, your assertions are additions to Scripture and not an accurate reflection of the Bible.
@IdolKiller The Lord declares the end at the very Beginning and that includes the middle too. WHO CAN SAY IT AND IT COMES TO PASS UNLESS THE LORD HAS DECREED IT? That's right, the heart of man plans his way,but the Lord decides what happens. Men want to do much,much more sin than God has decided that they do.So,if men cannot do all the sin that they truly want to do,then where is man's free will?? Men will only do what God has decreed they will do,nothing more and nothing less. We are all like David, all our days were written in God's book before a single moment was lived ,men don't like this and they will imagine all kinds of schemes to try to explain it away, but the truth remains the truth.
@CBALLEN your view denies God has any relationship to the beginning or end and flattens it all out to a single eternal decree. This is what you're reading into Scripture. Stop prooftexting in defense of an extra-Biblical presupposition and instead look at His self-revelation in Scripture and you'll see God describe Himself in ways the Classical Theist denies.
@IdolKiller Here's another thing to think about. If one is able to say,: " I made many terrible decisions in my life,but I did make one GREAT ONE " then this is boasting and since we are saved by God's grace, not by the will or works of man,then this makes it a false Gospel ,it's the same Gospel that those who'll hear,,DEPART, believed in.Remember they called Jesus Lord,they had a faith,in a Jesus, but it was a false faith,in a false Jesus. Their Gospel was based on their best decisions that they made .Eph 2:4-5 is key to the truth, IT WAS GOD WHO LOVED HIS PEOPLE, that Jesus died for and while we were still DEAD IN SIN ( GOD HATERS) ,He made us alive with Christ, by GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED!! Grace is unmerrited favor . This is the new birth and with this new birth comes THE FAITH OF CHRIST that makes us cognizant of the fact that Jesus actually saved us and this faith gives us peace with God.
If God decreed all things from eternity past which is how he has knowledge, and nothing happens that he has not decreed would happen...then God would not have to work all things for the good.
If it's a decree, then God is not working anything at all. Unless you claim he decreed what he would do when he decrees person X to perform a certain action. But then even God is not free
And No one is claiming that God is caught off guard or figuring things out.
It doesn't follow that if God decrees all things that He doesn't have to work all things for the good.
It also doesn't follow that if God's own actions are part of the decree that He would not be free.
@@reformedpilgrim just because you say it doesn’t make it true. And yes, if God decreed everything down to the micro and moment and nothing can change it, the. His work was done upon the time of the decree. The decree is God and God is his decree.
The problem is that’s not what the Bible describes. You see, I don’t have an issue if free will was a lie and that every thought deed and action was predetermined by God and I can do other than what he decreed me to do…I just don’t find it in scripture therefore that’s my problem.
I’ll ask you as well, does the idea that God decrees everything that happens simply bring you comfort and peace? Why? Would you lack peace if you knew that we made choices that God does not decree and that he has to work all those things for the good? Is he unable to work all things for the good if he did not first decree the bad things that happened ?
@@beaberean3286 You said, _"His work was done upon the time of the decree."_ In what sense do you mean "done"? If it's true that His work is done upon the time of the decree, would that be a problem? Why or why not?
Do you subscribe to Dynamic Omniscience/Open Theism?
My feelings about God decreeing everything that happens are irrelevant. I've had my share of hurt and pain, some remarkably similar to what Idol Killer hinted at in his own life. Scripture tells me that God works it all together for good. And if there is more such hurt and pain for me in the future, then God is working that for good, as well, no matter how I feel about it. I love God, regardless of how I feel about various trials in my life.
@@reformedpilgrim if his work was done at the time of the decree then it’s not a problem at all, except that you stated that God IS working within time even though it’s the decree that determines what God does.
Again, I don’t have an issue with total divine determinism except that it’s not found in the Bible. God decrees some things that are unchangeable like the cross of Christ, but other things that happen which he has not decreed, he works together for the good.
I love the story of Joseph in this sense. Gods decree was that Joseph would be a ruler. But along the way, there were plans that man meant for evil, BUT GOD worked (weaved) them for the good.
The reason I say “weaved” is because that’s the literal Hebrew word. חָשַׁב ḥâšaḇ - man has free will to plan and act but God will work those plans and actions for the good to show his great power. He weaves his plan into the plans of man in order to bring about His desired end and nothing can stop that. Did God know what all those evil people would freely choose to do to Joseph to hinder him? Absolutely! And so because he knew, he weaved his plan to ensure his end came about.
So I’ll ask this, why it is bad or wrong for man to have free will and God to intervene in that free will to ensure his end?
Since you hold free will in such a high esteem and power, doesn’t it make God even greater, bringing Him more glory in that he accomplishes his plans despite man’s free will, actions and desires?
@@beaberean3286 You said, _"if his work was done at the time of the decree then it’s not a problem at all."_ In what sense do you mean "done"? Done, as in planned out, or done as in fully completed? (Remember, you already granted that God's actions could be part of the decree.)
You asked, _"why it is bad or wrong for man to have free will and God to intervene in that free will to ensure his end?"_ I don't know; I didn't say it is bad or wrong for man to have free will and God to intervene in that free will to ensure His end.
In regards to your last question, could you please define "free will" in the way that you use it?
Do you subscribe to Dynamic Omniscience/Open Theism?
Hey bro, I’d love to have u on my channel sometime
@@TwitchyTheologian Thank you! I’m honored!