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it could be we visit not a memory but in fact, the past version of the round table with our actions in the 'real' roundtable affect the present like us having killed alberich or the two fingers having moved to hide in the moonlight altar cave or even hewg having in past died of old age with in future after we become elden lord his death becomes the fault of the tree burning or perhaps the tree always burned and killed him. honestly if it is time travel tho, no matter what figuriing it out proerly aint something i can really do XD
Fun fact: there is actually a third way to get an invitation to the Roundtable Hold. It seems that if you die enough times before either killing Margit or venturing outside of Limgrave/Weeping, Melina takes pity on you and offers to take you there anyway. The dialogue is exactly the same - with her saying you've proven yourself worthy. I, of course, absolutely did not discover this by dying countless times to Margit on my first run through the game...
That's not what it is. You don't need to beat margit at all to get an invitation to the roundtable hold, you just need to challenge him once regardless of the outcome. The fact that you found the way to him and the courage to challenge him proves to Melina that you truly have the guidance of grace and are worthy
I got my invite after killing the mariner in that one village, talking to D outside the village, using the gate to go to Gurranq then hitting the grace.
I'll never forget the time I walked into Leyendell castle for the first time and found the "real" physical RoundTable Hold. And all the real corpses of Tarnished past. Some I'd met in other forms. I'm surprised it's taken so long for this lore to be talked about. It was one of the most shocking and emotional moments of my first playthrough.
I couldn’t have put this into words better myself. It was truly special. The entire game was tho. I’m still chasing that high of craving to get on and explore and discover more. Elden ring was basically my start into souls games. To say I’m addicted is an understatement
About the "Remembrances hewn into the Erdtree" bit- it's a direct reference to Yggdrasil. In the "original" lore (because we only have what was recorded by a Christian long after the Norse religion had faded into myth) the three Norn sisters who emerged from the Well of Urd (Fate) at the base of Yggdrasil didn't actually spin threads- that's something their Greek and Slavic counterparts did. The Norns instead CARVED the fates of every man and god into wooden tablets, thus inflicting mortality upon all living things. There's also the popular theory among Norse folklorists that Yggdrasil's true name is the Tree of Memory. That's a long story to explain, but I find it makes sense that these concepts were used to design the Erdtree, which took the governance of Fate from the stars, and has Remembrances inexplicably hewn into it. A "Remembrance" is effectively a past-tense perspective of someone's Fate, after all.
@@Tsukune2001 Indeed they are! It's just a pity that we've lost the original oral traditions, and have only the accounts of a third party who always saw them as myths to try to piece together the old ways.
I'll never forget the feelings of dread, unease, horror and doubt that I felt when I stepped into the "real" roundtable hold, it was like being outsider in your own body, and with every familiar step I took there more and more of what was "real" became uncertain and I doubted everything that had to do with The Roundtable Hold that I grew accustomed too. Fascinating piece of worldbuilding and storytelling by FromSoft.
Miyazaki is said to have read a number of books in a language he didn’t fully understand and only knew bits and pieces of the lore. And put together the rest based off what he knew and imagined. Thus a similar style for the souls series and likely elden ring too
@@flameblazerofdeath13 when 99% of the player base has to go on some autistic guys youtube page to get a basic understanding about wtf is even happening in the game, it's a bad design.
@@dain6492 well, 😂 not everyone what to know stuff about the story. I can said half of people who play EDR not actually know much about character and those background. you can just speed run kill everything to end game.
Godfrey the Grafted is a petulent character who "grafts" the limbs of others onto himself or onto his scions. Yet, despite being seemingly the most unimportant of the demigods, he carries the anchor rune-- one that seems to fit in the centerpiece of the Golden Order. "Hewn to the Erdtree" -- all the demigods, have been hewn into the figure of the Erdtree. Marika makes it Eternal Maliketh composes the moment of Destined Death, that encompasses all. The Yin within the Greater Yang. Godfrey gives it Greater Will, a dominion that quells the authority of all other powers. Radagon sustains Order (and more importantly, he's likely the former King of the Fire Giants, aka the Sun) Rennala's vision of the stars gives manifest to the Elden Beast's body of the cosmos Godwyn is First in Death, and gives his Gold (he's very similar to Hades of Greek mythology) Mohg delivered his Blood to Miquella and his Haligtree, accursed as it is. Morgott was the manifestation of Fell-- Fallen Leaves, Fallen Kingdom, and the inevitable descent into madness. Radahn was the Starscourge, and gave power over the gravitational motion of the stars, burning ever hotter Rykard is Truth of a fierce justiciar, but the Truth is Blasphemy; as it was, the Memory of Grace is merely a cycle, not unlike the Serpent. Ranni is the Fates, the Trivia of the 3-faced Dark Moon, her flesh burned away into the mists of the unknown lands beyond, finding new life from death, and delivers the powers of the Elden Ring back to the stars. Malenia is a Goddess of Nature, but the nature of this world blossoms as scarlet rot. She is the purification of the cycle. Miquella is Abundance, but Abundance asks for blood, blasphemy, unalloyed purity... It escapes our understanding, and ascends to Divinity, hidden in the dream beyond the veil. As St. Trina, a mother of truth craves a wound. Shabriri is the name we give for the chaos that the Golden Order fundamentally amounts to. The Tarnished of No Renown is simply that: They are the emptiness of renown in a world where entitlement and hierarchy equal true divine power; many could argue that emptiness is only perception we can understand of the true nature of the divine.
I am a believer in the theory that the actual erdtree has already been burnt (from Tarnished Archaeologist) and the current erdtree is just an illusion. The fact that the roundtable follows the exact same steps of partial followed by a full burning simultaneously to the erdtree makes me think it's an illusion conjured by the same entity as the current erdtree (which is either the greater will or queen marika). Also multiple NPCs mention that the roundtable's burning fate is tied to the erdtree's fate. I assume the first tarnished still sat in the real roundtable in the capital, and the most likely reason for making the new roundtable would have been that too few tarnished managed to reach the original one after a while (see Gideon's namby-pamby tarnished line etc.) Evidence for that is in our invasion of the old tarnished, Alberich invading us from the real roundtable as well as Roundtable Knight Vyke having been friends with Lanseax. To visualize it, my headcanon is: Old tarnished were welcomed in the chapel of anticipation by a maiden who then immediately invited them to the real roundtable hold with the intact two fingers and gave them the ability to level up. Those tarnished could then use the still normally functional grand lift of dectus to get anywhere in the open world to try and kill shardbearers. Now godrick has taken over the chapel of anticipation and put a grafted scion there to kill any new tarnished as well as the maidens trying to meet the tarnished, then use tarnished for grafting. The only new tarnished since then are ones godrick deems unfit even to graft, who are just dumped in the stranded graveyard with their maidens murdered. Without a maiden, nobody of the new weak tarnished could reach the old roundtable and so the new roundtable was founded and things became as they are when we start the game
The idea of the invitation to the Hold meaning the physical one and not the one we use is intriguing. It helps address an issue with there being so many Tarnished who made it into the Capital (and past the Two Fingers' seal) without seeming to have two Great Runes (and with Enia claiming only once before having seen two GRs together - the Finger Maidens interceded so it wasn't necessary to prove yourself worthy to get to that stage. Also explains why we have to "invade" Vagram and his buddy - they are "truly" in the Hold even more than we are, and are possibly shielded by the Fingers, and using the magic of a Recusant Finger is required to move "outside" the Greater Will's protection (Varre mentions something about Festering Bloody Fingers doing something similar).
You need an invitation because you are a nobody, many of those other tarnished are legends. You need the 2 runes because you are just some guy, those other tarnished got invited because they were already important.
I think the "tarnished" were all warriors under Godfrey in a different age. Marika wanted to create a utopia and so she removed the rune of death and banished all the warriors from the land. Then shit hit the fan and warriors were once again needed. The Roudtable Hold, in the first age, was their "base of operations", and now that they've been called back to the Lands Between, a remembrance of it has been created in the Erd Tree.
I always figured the Roundtable Hold is somehow a purgatory, in between Erdtree burial and rebirths sort of. Like this is where the champions that get the burial end up, after being absorbed by the roots of the tree. Thats why it burns with the tree.
"Consecrated" doesn't mean "located primarily within a certain boundary," it means "blessed, or made sacred." Although you were talking Grace, so in a way it still kind of works lol.
I've always thought that Round Table Hold doesn't really exist but that it's a spiritual place one goes to when meditating. Melina is our guide to the RTH. She's a spirit, bodyless. A literal spiritual guide. She acts as a conduit for us to reach others that are still able to see grace, or help us on our journey. Roderika is a spirit tuner, and it also makes sense that the blacksmith's spirit being shackled to the Hold keeps him there, otherwise he'd be able to get out quite easily. It's like a spiritual nexus created by grace inside the mind of the Tarnished but shared among others. If Marika created it, then perhaps it was bc she found it fitting due to the historical parallels with her first husband ( a band of heroes, loyal to the GW fighting the just battle together).
i was under the impression it was a reconstruction inside of the erdtree. when you burn the erdtree the roundtable hold also burns. that tied it up nicely for me.
@@Ziostorm Doesn’t she specifically say she wants to go to the base of the Erdtree though? I could be wrong, It’s been a while since I’ve heard the dialogue bc I haven’t played ER in a hot minute. If that’s the case, then what are the chances the RTH is actually sat atop the canopy? After all, the canopy is the spot that gets lit on fire first.
When we step into the erdtree, you see exactly what's inside... a wide open arena with Marika crucified at the center. No table, no tarnished, no hewg. Just Marika and her split personality.
Not many people have noticed that with the spirit Roundtable. When you travel it has the same Kraken symbol that godreys axe has. Aswell Rogier does mention in one of his dialogs that Raya Lucaria is north of that roundtable. So that leads me to believe that it is some sort of manifestation of grace. Somewhere within the sea.
@@zzzeal753 that’s what I’m lead to believe. I had to double check the map after he mentions it. The only thing north of Roundtable in Leyndell is Mt of the Giants. Maybe it just game design to help guide the player? But there must be a reason why Miyazaki likes to use the trope of two areas that are the same but differant that cross over, they done it in bloodbourne and DS3. truly it is a mystery. I always questioned that If the other tarnished haven’t got Melina to port them, how do they even get there? Also you never see her at the Roundtable so why does she even prompt you to go there?
There is a bunch of evidence that would suggest that the Round Table Hold is in the past, and part of an alternate reality in a cyclic time loop. 1) The fact that you find Mad Tongue Alberich's gear in the same place you killed him in they Leyndell version. In fact his lore description describes him as being a member "long ago." 2)The fact that you find Hewg's Hammer at his final resting spot in the Leyndell version. 3)The fact that the Leyndell version is fully burned down since you eventually see the lively version ablaze near the end of the game, I don't think that its inside the Erdtree, Leyndell is close enough to the Erdtree to be burned down along with it. The ashes you find around Leyndell (even BEFORE setting the Erdtree ablaze) along with the wax sealing off the doors and windows of the buildings to seemingly prevent smoke inhalation, is evidence of the Erdtree being ablaze before. 4)The fact that the corporeal version of the Dung Eater does not recognize you even after meeting you in the Round Table Hold leads me to believe he is from another time/reality especially since he is able to give you the key to unlock his own prison. 5)The biggest clue to this is the description of the Coded Sword that is found upon the throne of the Two Fingers in the Leyndell version of the Round Table Hold: "Hidden sword once granted to the Tarnished of the Roundtable by the Two Fingers. A formless cipher comprises its blade, which deals holy damage no shield can repel. Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor." The Fingers are surely full of vigor in the active round table hold, making this sword a key hint. The fact that the lore of the weapon describes it as a cipher (a key to unlocking a puzzle) I think is a really neat addition.
The roundtable hold could also physically live inside Melina. She burns, she is our vessel teleporting to the round table, we dont see her die, she was born at the foot of the Erd Tree and therefore could be a literal branch from the Erd Tree in some kind of physical/spectral form or is some kind of conduit. We also don't see her die and can still level up so I think shes still kicking it. We also don't see any other maidens for any of the other tarnished who pass through the round table. Could Melina be all of their maidens? Its possible - we know other maidens exist like the dead ones and Hyetta but that doesn't explain why the other tarnished don't ever have maidens with them or mention their maidens.
Also, the tutorial message that shows up when you get to the Roundtable Hold explicitly tells you that it's "located outside of this world", so I don't think there's much room for arguing against that.
I remember Dark Souls 3 having THREE versions of the Firelink Shrine. One is the hub, one is the dark Firelink guarded by Champion Gundyr, and the last one where we get transported after putting the cinders of lords in their thrones.
I’ve always felt that the Rountable Hold was in the player character’s mind. It’s laid out similar to the anatomy of a human brain. The table in the middle with the giant grace on it would be the pineal gland. The right side is where you craft and level spirits. The left side is more logical (Gideon and his library). Idk, what do you guys think?
Don't know if this holds water or not, but there's a chance that "Erd" in Erdtree might be a derivative of the danish prefix "Ur-". Not to be confused with the word for Watch/clock, which is spelt the same way, this prefix is added to the beginning of a word to signify it's status as first among it's kind. "Ur-" in this context more or less translates to "primordial", and if this is the case there is an argument for be made that the Erdtree might also be called the Primordail Tree. Food for thought?
Another thing to note is that the Roundtable Hold is located far and away from everything else on the map. It's so far removed that nothing else is visible when you're focused on it, like the rest of the world isn't there
When looking at the actual roundtable in the center of the hold, among all the weapons embedded into the table is a giant axe, most likely Hoarah Loux's weapon before he took the name Godfrey or perhaps just the weapon Godfrey used before his current axe. That leaves the question of who the other weapons belong to. Perhaps other Tarnished who followed him or the crucible knights.
I fall under the belief that the Roundtable Hold is a dream, but one born of Marika. It's a sanctuary that she holds in her own memory, a small safe haven that she can maintain fir the Tarnished she called back to the Lands Between.
lol title says "we were all wrong" but then the video just says that the theory most of us have accepted as true for the past year is probably correct btw i don't think it's correct to say the Erdtree used to be called "the Crucible". the Crucible was "the primordial form of the Erdtree". not "the primordial *name* of the Erdtree". they're two different things. what was the crucible later became a tree ("the Crucible Tree") that eventually was named "The Erdtree". personally, i think the Crucible was the crater where the golden star crashed into the Lands Between, and then a tree grew from the nutrients in the soil there, taking what was in the crater and molding it into a new *form* - but that's just speculation. i think it's pretty safe to say the Crucible wasn't a tree tho, based on the "primordial form" line. and, GEQ is almost certainly Marika, and Melina seems to be her daughter, so..."memory of the Gloam Eyed Queen"? kind of...
I looked out at the water from atop the tower where you unlock Malenia’s great tune, noticing the shimmer of light upon the water’s surface, the appearance of ‘grace’. Considering all sites of grace you find appear as if it is that same reflection upon a watery purpose, we can only assume it is the source of all grace in the lands between. It stretches far beyond all land masses and structures, and, upon examining the map, you see it’s most likely point of origin is the “lost grace” of the round table hold.
I think the first time this sorta thing was done was bloodborne, then again in DS3 and now here...Miyazaki likes playing with the idea. Some sort of phantom internal haven....
The original Roundtable Hold (Leyndell Fortified Manor) champions are Vyke, Old Knight Istvan, Tragoth, Lionel the Lionhearted, Vargram, Knight Bernahl, Errant Sorcerer Wilhelm, Rileigh the idle, Crepus, Sorcerer Alberich, and Godfrey (Hoarah Loux)
This round table is like a penn and a test. Leading everyone who joined to their doom. But only who overcame the challenges is worthy of being the elden Lord. Horah loux didn't need that test as he was ex-elden Lord. Proof of the round table being inside the tree: only this grace doesn't point anywhere or pointed toward. Sparkles don't fly around it like others.
I kinda had the same conclusion last year when I got to Fortified Manor last year in my first play through. It always did come off as a cognitive version of the actual RT Hold and oddly in one of the engravings in the game, you can see what looks like this RT Hold up in the Erdtree design.
I think the Roundtable Hold is a Dark Souls-style Miracle being cast by Marika. Miracles were manifestations of old stories and the faith placed in them, which would be supremely fitting for Marika to cast, recalling the old ways of Godfrey's warband to guide the new Tarnished.
I think Landbetween is real world of ER and Roundtable Hold work like the spirit realm or a host, kinda like Valhalla where all great tanisher warriors come when they die. but Marika broke the circle by destroy the elden ring and hid the Death runes so all fallen tanishers can come back to the Land between
From Software does a great job of pulling inferences from lore all across the world and throughout history to conglomerate them into something familiar yet new, much as old school Magic the Gathering or even Monster in My Pocket did before. So why wouldn't there be a nexus or conclave of long dead, clashing egos fighting to remain extant and carry on their mission? The idea of the vengeful spirit or 'unfinished business' has been a part of human mythology longer than standardized writing. But in this case it's not a house haunted by a single murdered Victorian girl, but an intricate web of destinies that Could have Been, among the largest and most influential being Gideon. Until you come along. And who are you? Another space entity, a cataclysmic accident, a wandering John Travolta meme, or perhaps even the newest iteration of Marika/Radagon willed into existence by the need for a new era? Or it's just a really fun game. What tf do I know?
It could be similar to the Hunter's Dream, or the Nightmare in Bloodborne (each one is controlled by the Moon Presance or Kos respectively from what I understand) in nature, maybe it is connected to the Greater Will itself as with the real hold no longer safe, it needs somewhere for it's would be assassins to have some measure of safety so it creates a duplicate something that would be familiar to older Tarnished and welcoming to newer ones. But it needs a way to anchor this little sort of pocket dimension to the world for Tarnished to be able to access it, so it ties it to the Erdtree Hewg is potentially just there because he was in the original Roundtable Hold, he might not even know why Marika wanted a weapon to slay a god, she might have just came in someday and told him that was what she wanted, since I'd imagine it wouldn't be out of place for Marika to have ordered Tarnished and whatever staff the hold might have had (Hewg included) to do things while Godfrey was the Elden Lord, or even after Radagon had become Lord, but the Greater Will just went "oh he's part of the Hold's staff" and somehow moved him into the Hold, why we don't see any other staff is a bit odd however.
FROMSOFTWARE has always done this . I remember seeing the real Firelink shrine in DS3 and the real hunters workshop similar to the hunters dream in Bloodborne. I love his explanation. Makes a lot of sense. Probably the same concept of Farum Azula existing in different time and space. We see Gurranq at the beastial sanctum and fight him (Maliketh) at Farum Azula at a different timeline
I've always thought the Round Table Hold was a pocket dimension or maybe involves some sort of time travel created/maintained by Melina and that the Two Fingers in the throne room was hers. I do think that when Shadow of the Ertree lands we're going to find out more about the RTH because I believe that is where we're going to access it. If the DLC is going to be aimed towards Miquella then it makes perfect sense to me that same door that leads to the Divine Tower of Miquella and Malenia, the area with the Abductor Virgins in the manor, would be the same door to access that DLC. We would learn a lot since potentially we could see what's outside of the RTH. If it is a dream-space then we could figure out whose it is, might be trippy to learn the RTH was Miquella's and the Two Fingers was his. Too many questions and not enough answers.
I wanna say it's a pocket dimension outside the realm of the land between, made by the grace of the Erdtree. I'm not sure what fast traveling does narratively to the player but where you go is real atleast physically. The Erdtree probably took what warriors used as a resting place as a default location and made grace the main way you get to it.
Just for the first time got a weird theory, could round table hold be located on the top of the erdtree as if it’s a divine tower? That is where the fingers seem to land is in a spot of religious significance, the manor is more than likely an old place belonging to Godfrey and a reference to Arthurian legend, round table for his knights, and as for the of the round table hold isn’t a real place, it could be marika’s dream, much like we fight the lich dragon, she dreams of the tarnished that will one day free her, which is why our hub has a guy who was asked by her to create a god slaying armament. And that maybe this explains some thing regarding godwyn, maybe the face under storm veil is a stain, a memory the erdtree left in the spot of it’s happening, as I do believe that’s an old throne room down or dining hall down there, no longer used
The Roundtable Hold is a pocket Dimension inside the fortified Manor. So everything that affects the Manor, affects the Roundtable Hold as well. The Theory about the Roundtable Hold being inside the Erdtree is partially true. Because, this isn’t the only pocket Dimension that is linked to the Tree. There is another one in deep down under the Erdtree. That’s right. I am talking about the place we find Fia and Godwyn and fight Lich Dragon Fortissax. Fia lies with Godwyn to link herself to him in order to create the Rune of the Deathprince. Godwyn is linked to the Tree and thus the pocket Dimension where we find Fortissax still fighting Godwyns decay, exists. Marika does the same to give guidance to the tarnished and placed Hewg there to let them be able to forge a Weapon strong enough to fight Radagon and the Great Will. Marika wasn‘t interested in letting the World suffer eternally as Gideon thought. Instead she wanted to free the World of the Outer Gods and others that all try to force their Order into it. We have the Great Will with the Golden Order which failed, because the Gods themselves were not better than men. The frenzied Flame that tries to erase all life from the Universe and return everything to what it was before life started to form. The Rot, which exists only to consume and grow. The Allmother, who Mohg serves to spread pain and misery. The Orders the Demigods have in mind, should they being successful in mending the Elden Ring, like Ranni. Tarnished like Fia, the Dungeater, Goldmask and ourselves. The „eternal struggle“ which Gideon mentions that Marika wants for the World, is just life going in a normal way. Free from different forces meddling with other people’s life. So she wants us to experience life as we are experiencing in reality. The things needed to accomplish this feat are a tarnished that establishes the right Order, by collecting the Shards of the Elden Ring and mend it in a way so that the Outer Gods are kept out from this World and destined Death to prevent the World from overpopulation, giving some sort of equality to every being through sharing the same fate and provide change, by kinda forcing the people in charge to change with every Generation. Life = eternal struggle. But hey! This is just a Theory. A Game-Theory! Thanks for reading! 🤣
Wow I never even made that connection! Nice one, my friend 👌 Thinking about it, this does seem similar to the Firelink Shine in DS3. A bit out of time and not connected to the “real” world.
The roundtable is a memory of an actual place given form within a pocket dimension that is sustained by the erdtree and or marika. Because when the tree burns so does the construct
I was more surprised about the Dark Firelink Shrine in Dark Souls 3. This felt not as impressive, because I've seen it before. It was a nice feeling, though. The King Arthur symbology was more impressive, once I connected the dots.
So did one of the outer gods make something that exists outside of time and space? If so, which one, and why? If not them, then who made it. I understand Melina being our spirital guide to the round table hold. However i'm so stuck on who made it and why.
I always assumed it was in the erd tree, I think ppl enjoy looking the souls lore a little too much. You burn the tree, your hub gets lit up too…connect the dots. Cure could be wrong but souls games don’t really hide things from you, they show you everything you just don’t know what it means yet
It took me 4 playthroughs before i realised the grace at Round Table hold was usable; i kept jumping onto the table before getting the popup to use it 😅
I thought they liked the idea of the hunter's dream and transfered it into Elden Ring with a slight variation on the concept, but the same concept nonetheless. A place for hunters "tarnished" to regroup, plan and sortee from under the will of some demi-god the Moon Presence "Marika". Once its purpose served, to burn away and disappear. I believe it's mich simpler than we may speculate, but the more minor details surrounding it are always interesting to consider. Like the building looking older than the rest of the capitol is such a fine detail, but what it may allude to I hope we get to know. Who the hell is Melina, and why is she able to whisk people away to the roundtable? What purpose does this serve Marika, us gaining the power to burn the erdtree, free her, and become elden lord... if we end up fighting her anyways?
I think it's a place repurposed from a place of gathering, and previously run by Banished Knights. The Erdtree's Golden Order wanted to do away with symbols of the less modern standards of its people. Hewg would be old enough to have seen this big change as he references a terror of his seeing Marika, and quite possibly and older age of society where he would be acquainted with another Spirit Tuner, perhaps less regretfully. Hewg would keep his coals a similar way to Iji, in what appears to be the bands found on ankles of giant golems. I imagine the Roundtable would empty out for every new generation of modern humans Marika saw, hoping to create some sort of perfect order and people, but her people began to faulter in faith mlre and more. No more horns, scales, tails, nor wings with grace. An ideological conflict would appear of dragon worship to Golden Order worship, and would be deemed acceptable.
@@Grunbeldknight well yeah, i didnt think the cliff was a real hazard unless you were picking up the binocs or whatever was down there. But yeah, you're right.
Bro if anyone here had played BB we'd all be on the same page about how the RTH is more than a fancy fort. it's an incorporeal plane based on the architecture of the fortified manor, not unlike the Hunter's dream being a recreation of The Hunters' Workshop
When we set the erdtree a flame the round table is set a flame too. So Marika created a place to help tarnish gather too free her. The two fingers are probably hers. The place look exactly like the castle of her first husband where he meet with is crucible knights.
The Roundtable could have been, originally, the meeting place of Godfrey and his best/strongest knights. After the War with the Dragons, I can see it being abandoned. I can also see the GW using whatever residual power that was left to copy it and use it as it's own. That's why there is two, with one being almost completely out of space and time. My incomplete TDL;R of my thoughts on it
I had always kinda figured that the Roundtable Hold was sort of a pocket dimension that you visit, kinda like the Hunter's Workshop. And, like the Workshop, it needs both a creator and a pattern. I'd kindof assumed that the creator, or at least the sustaining power for its existence, is the Two Fingers within it. But then once created, it _is_ hackable, in a sense. In that there are a few people who have figured out some unintended way to gain entry. Whether Marika herseld used the Two Fingers to create it, I don't know. Maybe? The Two Fingers, seems to want a Tarnished to succeed Godfrey and Radagon as Elden Lord. Presumably to give the Golden Order a renaissance of sorts. But Marika is secretly laying the groundwork to tear the Order down, right? So, the Roundtable Hold is literally working against itself? And it seems that nearly all Tarnished eho have access to the Hold have abandoned the goal of becoming Elden Lord (if they ever truly had it) and found their own individual goals to pursue. Why continue to allow them entry? And have they all abandoned their maidens, who would be urging them to continue pursuing the title of Elden Lord? These maidens of other Tarnished have always interested me. I have a lot of questions about them.
@Ziostorm right. I believe the round table exists between reality. Kinda like the real erdtree. Which is why they're likely thought of as one and the same. Which is what I gather from your video and all the other folks that have examined this.
I always thought of it as a spiritual nexus between certain characters in the land. I loosely theorized it after the dung eater quest and that abandoned roundtable manor in the city
Always thought roughly the same. That the Round Table we visit is parallel to the Fortified Manor. However, this video got me thinking: Whose Two Fingers is in the roundtable?
I think it'll make more sense once we learn more about this land of spirits or whatever is going on with the DLC promo art. Currently, I have no idea what to make of it. I don't think it's a physical place in the Lands Between. But there are a few things that make me think that it is tied to the Erdtree but not in a way that seems obvious. That said, I want to disagree with the idea that the old Hold in Leyendell is an older building. If you've been following Tarnished Archaeologist at all, you'll know that there's good reason to think that the nameless Eternal City was actually above ground at one point and was in fact called Leyendell, Eternal City. Why does this matter? The Leyendell Capital that we know was built up around the Eternal City Leyendell. That's why there's a big hole out where the front door should lead. So, they clearly had no issues with contrasting architectural styles. Given that this is the case, it's not actually clear when Godfrey's hold was built. Only that it was built by a different group than the Leyendell Capital artisans. It could be older, it could be the newest addition. Personally I think it's relatively new and was made to suit Godfrey's personal tastes more than anything else. But that's a long argument I'll not go into here. Point is, we can't definitely say when it was built.
I see the round table hold like overlook hotel where those with grace who continue long enough find. It’s outside temporal existence & the inner world of the player & meetings with people there are amalgamations of interactions with people in the world & representations of inner concepts/thoughts
I came to this conclusion a while back. What I don't get (and what is probably a massive contrivance) is how the Tarnished travel to and from the Roundtable Hold via the in-game lore.
Great video man. Was wondering if we could ever get a setup video maybe in the future? Anyways keep up the awesome work and keep hoping for dlc trailer!
there is a cut way to be sent to the roundtable hold, and it was with vare's help. it makes me think that earlier in the development there was the option to reject melina and finish the game without her
Hi, I know I am a bit late to the party, but you comparing "outer" Roundtable Hold to the Hunter's Dream reminded me about Demon' Souls. Melina during our first meeting calls us a "traveler from beyond the fog", what literally is who the main character from Demon Souls is. Boletaria was cut off from the world by the fog and we come from the outside to the inside of the kingdom. Demon' Souls protagonist is the most litteral traveler from beyond the fog one possibly can be. The hub area, The Nexus, is similarly "somewhere out there". And also in your Erdtree video you pointed at significance of colors, on which Hawkshaw has a few hours long video. The mist in Demon Souls is draining everything of it's color, it's original native inhabitants are even named Colorless Demons. Also, Demon Souls was the direct precedessor to Dark Souls with it's full formula, while Elden Ring is successor (Bloodborne barely has any spells for the player and left/right hand are separate for customisation, while Sekiro has no weapon nor armor choice at all). I'd be very interested if you made a video about Elden Ring's story through Demon' Soul's lenses. Of note is also that Astrea and Fia have identical "boss fight", and are very similar characters. You don't fight either of them directly, only fight their guard, after what neither of them is a threat. Both claim to be the only caretakers of the poor and opressed, are closely relates to death and decay and both willigly abandoned the highier class of the main faction.
Interesting take, but aren't tarnished people who were expelled before? Wouldn't the fort just be a memory similar to Bloodborne's dream? It would be the memory of the grace, of Marika's place of command a central hub from where everyone does as they are told. But everyone in the hold eventually deviates and suffers some form of misfortune from abandoning grace. They can do that because they're still alive but suffer permadeath when killed outside the hold. The Blacksmith might have become muddled and confused not only because he's chained to the hold, but because he can't return to his body outside of the dream as a result of Marika's curse. Thus his projection would be forever severed and he becomes lost still bound to the roundtable with no escape, stuck in purgatory.
Does anyone else felt bad doing the volcano manor questline? I hate how some items are only available if you become the bad guy and hunt your fellow tarnished.
You make the the darkforce holding the world of elden ring sound like matrix computer (as described in dr who as a computer containing all knowledge which ended up also containing all dead (ie their souls) of all time) almost like the erdtree's sap is the memories of others and so to consume this sap would be to obtain memories or knowledge of the ancients. Love your perspective of it's a memory held amongst the all of it's inhabitants, like an astral version of the fort and we are just astral projecting into the goddess's mind controlling it.
How is your quality of details is so good? I am also playing on Mobiuz 4k but not OLED, the problem with HDR mode makes lightning all messed up, can you please share your settings
I pretty much arrived at many of the same conclusions as you. It somehow makes sense that the Roundtable Hold is a recreation of sorts, not a real physical place.
The roundtable hold is likely a fixed point in time. Elden ring is a world caught in an unfinished cycle, thusly caught in a repetitive cycle of death, what if the tarnished and the demigods are just stuck in groundhogs day until they no longer have the will to resist falling into dust.
The invitation that a Tarnished needs comes from their Maiden. That is why Varre kills our Maiden and is surprised when he finds out we did get to the Roundtable Hold and he even starts to question us as to how. To me it’s clear why Varre kills our Maiden. He wants us maiden-less and away from the influence of the Roundtable Hold so that he can become our guide in the hopes of recruiting us into Lord Mohg’s ranks as bloody fingers.
@@fastenedcarrot9570 when I got my c1 the c2 was out but was pretty much the same tv just with a new case, I managed to get it for £800 (55") so I was going for the c1 :) even with c3 I think c1 if you can get one still pretty much the same tv, but yeah man lg c series of tv are amazing have completely leveled up my set up and like I sed has all the features you want from a monitor and a smart tv, seems like the smart option for your money to me
I noticed something strange in the roundtable. The one with a big grace has a big axe splitting the stone tree on the table, right down the middle. But the one with out the big grace has the axe switched with one of the swords. I have to wonder if it has to do with marika having 2 different beings tied to her. But i honestly feel like radagon is like soul of cinder, and has to do with the people who gave lives for the birth of the golden order, with elden beast similar to gwyn in being the god that incepted the idea of a controlling order
New king consort, new roundtable. Is that what you're saying? One with Godfrey's axe buried in it and another with Radagon's sword. Although I, personally, wouldn't say Marika's soul was "tied to" either of them. That sounds like dressing up the act of marriage to be more than what it was. Marika needed an enforcer, a champion to inflict her will on the battlefield. Love had nothing to do with it and they weren't soul mates. When she disgraced Godfrey and banished him and his army, she alone would have no real control over the Lands Between. Thus Radagon, an illusion of might, suddenly appeared. What's confusing is did Radagon and Marika know they were the same being or did Radagon suddenly appear (like Melina) acting of his own accord without realizing he was an extension of Marika's soul?
@@RecluseBootsy I'm honestly trying to find purpose in erdtree burial and after searching, felt like the gaps in information about where radagon comes from and where champion souls go when absorbed by the tree could tie to gather, I can see a lot of themes from dark souls being played out. And radagon is very similar to soul of cinder. There's just no description as to why marika suddenly changes into him. But if she has been absorbing the souls of bloodthirsty warriors willing to die for her, can she not feel them inside of her? The souls of her order that would never break the elden ring aren't givin permission to leave, they break free and fight you to stop the end of the world. All my opinion of course lol
Hewn into the tree simply means death returns to the tree, no? It may be like the anti tree of life. Its also possible the roundtable is a dream or memory stuck in a dream.
I think the Two Fingers made the Round Table Hold as a way of manipulating the Tarnished into restoring the Golden Order and the Elden Ring. Marika intended the Tarnished to return and fight to become Elden Lord, but she says she doesn’t care how or why they do it. So I think the Two Fingers made the Roundtable hold, luring Tarnished there with gifts like resources, shelter, food, knowledge and the strength of runes. And, once there, they manipulate the Tarnished with rhetoric and the finger maiden’s guidance.
What I would like to know is how the others got there. Did Melina take them all, meaning they all know her but none of them mention her? Supposedly we're the one who brings Roderika, but we never actually have an interaction telling her about it. And surely Melina wouldn't invite Dung Eater?
Maybe it’s inside Melina, she’s most likely rannis body reborn without her soul after she died on the tower and marika inhabits it so the round table hold burns like she did and didn’t get bad until death was returned It would make sense why she is able to invite you there too
I kind of thought this theory was obvious, but maybe it’s because I played Bloodborne and the two hubs operated similarly, in terms of function and vibe.
I figured that the Round Table Hold exists as a pocket space inside the Erdtree. Marika most likely created it after the half death of Godwyn as a prison for Hugh the Blacksmith and a place of refuge for the Tarnished in the future. The main reason is changes or starts to burn is because it is part of the Erdtree in some way or another.
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it could be we visit not a memory but in fact, the past version of the round table with our actions in the 'real' roundtable affect the present like us having killed alberich or the two fingers having moved to hide in the moonlight altar cave or even hewg having in past died of old age with in future after we become elden lord his death becomes the fault of the tree burning or perhaps the tree always burned and killed him. honestly if it is time travel tho, no matter what figuriing it out proerly aint something i can really do XD
😊😢
Fun fact: there is actually a third way to get an invitation to the Roundtable Hold. It seems that if you die enough times before either killing Margit or venturing outside of Limgrave/Weeping, Melina takes pity on you and offers to take you there anyway. The dialogue is exactly the same - with her saying you've proven yourself worthy.
I, of course, absolutely did not discover this by dying countless times to Margit on my first run through the game...
🤨🤨
Huh that’s actually pretty interesting, good thing you didn’t find it like that though right?
From is going soft on us
That's not what it is. You don't need to beat margit at all to get an invitation to the roundtable hold, you just need to challenge him once regardless of the outcome.
The fact that you found the way to him and the courage to challenge him proves to Melina that you truly have the guidance of grace and are worthy
I got my invite after killing the mariner in that one village, talking to D outside the village, using the gate to go to Gurranq then hitting the grace.
I'll never forget the time I walked into Leyendell castle for the first time and found the "real" physical RoundTable Hold. And all the real corpses of Tarnished past. Some I'd met in other forms. I'm surprised it's taken so long for this lore to be talked about. It was one of the most shocking and emotional moments of my first playthrough.
I couldn’t have put this into words better myself. It was truly special. The entire game was tho. I’m still chasing that high of craving to get on and explore and discover more. Elden ring was basically my start into souls games. To say I’m addicted is an understatement
Emotional??
@@kunknown2340things got intimate with the tarnished past
It also happened to dark souls 3
@@kunknown2340some people indeed have emotions and emotional reactions to games. Go figure.
About the "Remembrances hewn into the Erdtree" bit- it's a direct reference to Yggdrasil. In the "original" lore (because we only have what was recorded by a Christian long after the Norse religion had faded into myth) the three Norn sisters who emerged from the Well of Urd (Fate) at the base of Yggdrasil didn't actually spin threads- that's something their Greek and Slavic counterparts did. The Norns instead CARVED the fates of every man and god into wooden tablets, thus inflicting mortality upon all living things. There's also the popular theory among Norse folklorists that Yggdrasil's true name is the Tree of Memory. That's a long story to explain, but I find it makes sense that these concepts were used to design the Erdtree, which took the governance of Fate from the stars, and has Remembrances inexplicably hewn into it. A "Remembrance" is effectively a past-tense perspective of someone's Fate, after all.
Is this why Melina gets her memory back after getting to the base of the Erdtree in the game? Interesting lore stuff!
thats the tree from gow ragnarok
@@bruv399Well… yeah, gow ragnarok is based on northern myths, which includes Yggdrasil
The Norse religion hasn't faded into myth. The gods are still worshipped
Praise lord Odin.
@@Tsukune2001 Indeed they are! It's just a pity that we've lost the original oral traditions, and have only the accounts of a third party who always saw them as myths to try to piece together the old ways.
I'll never forget the feelings of dread, unease, horror and doubt that I felt when I stepped into the "real" roundtable hold, it was like being outsider in your own body, and with every familiar step I took there more and more of what was "real" became uncertain and I doubted everything that had to do with The Roundtable Hold that I grew accustomed too.
Fascinating piece of worldbuilding and storytelling by FromSoft.
My favorite thing about elden ring is that it makes all the fans into detectives working together like a unit to find the truth.
I'd like alitte explanation. The lack of storytelling shouldn't be a style
Miyazaki is said to have read a number of books in a language he didn’t fully understand and only knew bits and pieces of the lore. And put together the rest based off what he knew and imagined. Thus a similar style for the souls series and likely elden ring too
@@dain6492 just because it doesn't fit your preference, doesn't mean it's bad, it's a great style when done properly, it's just not for you.
@@flameblazerofdeath13 when 99% of the player base has to go on some autistic guys youtube page to get a basic understanding about wtf is even happening in the game, it's a bad design.
@@dain6492 well, 😂 not everyone what to know stuff about the story. I can said half of people who play EDR not actually know much about character and those background. you can just speed run kill everything to end game.
Godfrey the Grafted is a petulent character who "grafts" the limbs of others onto himself or onto his scions. Yet, despite being seemingly the most unimportant of the demigods, he carries the anchor rune-- one that seems to fit in the centerpiece of the Golden Order.
"Hewn to the Erdtree" -- all the demigods, have been hewn into the figure of the Erdtree.
Marika makes it Eternal
Maliketh composes the moment of Destined Death, that encompasses all. The Yin within the Greater Yang.
Godfrey gives it Greater Will, a dominion that quells the authority of all other powers.
Radagon sustains Order (and more importantly, he's likely the former King of the Fire Giants, aka the Sun)
Rennala's vision of the stars gives manifest to the Elden Beast's body of the cosmos
Godwyn is First in Death, and gives his Gold (he's very similar to Hades of Greek mythology)
Mohg delivered his Blood to Miquella and his Haligtree, accursed as it is.
Morgott was the manifestation of Fell-- Fallen Leaves, Fallen Kingdom, and the inevitable descent into madness.
Radahn was the Starscourge, and gave power over the gravitational motion of the stars, burning ever hotter
Rykard is Truth of a fierce justiciar, but the Truth is Blasphemy; as it was, the Memory of Grace is merely a cycle, not unlike the Serpent.
Ranni is the Fates, the Trivia of the 3-faced Dark Moon, her flesh burned away into the mists of the unknown lands beyond, finding new life from death, and delivers the powers of the Elden Ring back to the stars.
Malenia is a Goddess of Nature, but the nature of this world blossoms as scarlet rot. She is the purification of the cycle.
Miquella is Abundance, but Abundance asks for blood, blasphemy, unalloyed purity... It escapes our understanding, and ascends to Divinity, hidden in the dream beyond the veil. As St. Trina, a mother of truth craves a wound.
Shabriri is the name we give for the chaos that the Golden Order fundamentally amounts to.
The Tarnished of No Renown is simply that: They are the emptiness of renown in a world where entitlement and hierarchy equal true divine power; many could argue that emptiness is only perception we can understand of the true nature of the divine.
I am a believer in the theory that the actual erdtree has already been burnt (from Tarnished Archaeologist) and the current erdtree is just an illusion. The fact that the roundtable follows the exact same steps of partial followed by a full burning simultaneously to the erdtree makes me think it's an illusion conjured by the same entity as the current erdtree (which is either the greater will or queen marika). Also multiple NPCs mention that the roundtable's burning fate is tied to the erdtree's fate.
I assume the first tarnished still sat in the real roundtable in the capital, and the most likely reason for making the new roundtable would have been that too few tarnished managed to reach the original one after a while (see Gideon's namby-pamby tarnished line etc.)
Evidence for that is in our invasion of the old tarnished, Alberich invading us from the real roundtable as well as Roundtable Knight Vyke having been friends with Lanseax.
To visualize it, my headcanon is:
Old tarnished were welcomed in the chapel of anticipation by a maiden who then immediately invited them to the real roundtable hold with the intact two fingers and gave them the ability to level up. Those tarnished could then use the still normally functional grand lift of dectus to get anywhere in the open world to try and kill shardbearers.
Now godrick has taken over the chapel of anticipation and put a grafted scion there to kill any new tarnished as well as the maidens trying to meet the tarnished, then use tarnished for grafting.
The only new tarnished since then are ones godrick deems unfit even to graft, who are just dumped in the stranded graveyard with their maidens murdered.
Without a maiden, nobody of the new weak tarnished could reach the old roundtable and so the new roundtable was founded and things became as they are when we start the game
The idea of the invitation to the Hold meaning the physical one and not the one we use is intriguing. It helps address an issue with there being so many Tarnished who made it into the Capital (and past the Two Fingers' seal) without seeming to have two Great Runes (and with Enia claiming only once before having seen two GRs together - the Finger Maidens interceded so it wasn't necessary to prove yourself worthy to get to that stage. Also explains why we have to "invade" Vagram and his buddy - they are "truly" in the Hold even more than we are, and are possibly shielded by the Fingers, and using the magic of a Recusant Finger is required to move "outside" the Greater Will's protection (Varre mentions something about Festering Bloody Fingers doing something similar).
You need an invitation because you are a nobody, many of those other tarnished are legends. You need the 2 runes because you are just some guy, those other tarnished got invited because they were already important.
The Two Fingers didn’t put up the barrier until after Vike betrayed them.
I think the "tarnished" were all warriors under Godfrey in a different age. Marika wanted to create a utopia and so she removed the rune of death and banished all the warriors from the land. Then shit hit the fan and warriors were once again needed. The Roudtable Hold, in the first age, was their "base of operations", and now that they've been called back to the Lands Between, a remembrance of it has been created in the Erd Tree.
Throughout ER, there is a connection drawn between the erdtree and a nervous system. The fact that memories can be "hewn into it" is but one example.
More like Hewg into it amirite?
@@rainbowkrampus nice :)
I always figured the Roundtable Hold is somehow a purgatory, in between Erdtree burial and rebirths sort of. Like this is where the champions that get the burial end up, after being absorbed by the roots of the tree. Thats why it burns with the tree.
The Champions that get burial are absorbed into the roots so they can be physically reborn. That doesn't track.
@@SwissArmyCheese "in between Erdtree burial and rebirths" in my first sentence.
"Consecrated" doesn't mean "located primarily within a certain boundary," it means "blessed, or made sacred." Although you were talking Grace, so in a way it still kind of works lol.
I've always thought that Round Table Hold doesn't really exist but that it's a spiritual place one goes to when meditating. Melina is our guide to the RTH. She's a spirit, bodyless. A literal spiritual guide. She acts as a conduit for us to reach others that are still able to see grace, or help us on our journey. Roderika is a spirit tuner, and it also makes sense that the blacksmith's spirit being shackled to the Hold keeps him there, otherwise he'd be able to get out quite easily. It's like a spiritual nexus created by grace inside the mind of the Tarnished but shared among others. If Marika created it, then perhaps it was bc she found it fitting due to the historical parallels with her first husband ( a band of heroes, loyal to the GW fighting the just battle together).
U can find it in the capital though so it does exist in the real world as well as being in a different dimension as it’s not run down
i was under the impression it was a reconstruction inside of the erdtree. when you burn the erdtree the roundtable hold also burns. that tied it up nicely for me.
Not quite. Wouldn’t make much sense if Melina needs us to take her to the Erdtree when she can take us there anyway
I was under the impression the real Round Table was the friends we made along the way!
...
I'll se myself out.
@@Ziostorm Doesn’t she specifically say she wants to go to the base of the Erdtree though? I could be wrong, It’s been a while since I’ve heard the dialogue bc I haven’t played ER in a hot minute. If that’s the case, then what are the chances the RTH is actually sat atop the canopy? After all, the canopy is the spot that gets lit on fire first.
@@GehrmansWheelchairthat's a good point, she does specify it's the base she wants to reach
When we step into the erdtree, you see exactly what's inside... a wide open arena with Marika crucified at the center. No table, no tarnished, no hewg. Just Marika and her split personality.
Not many people have noticed that with the spirit Roundtable. When you travel it has the same Kraken symbol that godreys axe has. Aswell Rogier does mention in one of his dialogs that Raya Lucaria is north of that roundtable. So that leads me to believe that it is some sort of manifestation of grace. Somewhere within the sea.
So it could literally be where it is shown on the map
@@zzzeal753 that’s what I’m lead to believe. I had to double check the map after he mentions it. The only thing north of Roundtable in Leyndell is Mt of the Giants. Maybe it just game design to help guide the player? But there must be a reason why Miyazaki likes to use the trope of two areas that are the same but differant that cross over, they done it in bloodbourne and DS3. truly it is a mystery. I always questioned that If the other tarnished haven’t got Melina to port them, how do they even get there? Also you never see her at the Roundtable so why does she even prompt you to go there?
There is a bunch of evidence that would suggest that the Round Table Hold is in the past, and part of an alternate reality in a cyclic time loop.
1) The fact that you find Mad Tongue Alberich's gear in the same place you killed him in they Leyndell version. In fact his lore description describes him as being a member "long ago."
2)The fact that you find Hewg's Hammer at his final resting spot in the Leyndell version.
3)The fact that the Leyndell version is fully burned down since you eventually see the lively version ablaze near the end of the game, I don't think that its inside the Erdtree, Leyndell is close enough to the Erdtree to be burned down along with it. The ashes you find around Leyndell (even BEFORE setting the Erdtree ablaze) along with the wax sealing off the doors and windows of the buildings to seemingly prevent smoke inhalation, is evidence of the Erdtree being ablaze before.
4)The fact that the corporeal version of the Dung Eater does not recognize you even after meeting you in the Round Table Hold leads me to believe he is from another time/reality especially since he is able to give you the key to unlock his own prison.
5)The biggest clue to this is the description of the Coded Sword that is found upon the throne of the Two Fingers in the Leyndell version of the Round Table Hold:
"Hidden sword once granted to the Tarnished of the Roundtable by the Two Fingers. A formless cipher comprises its blade, which deals holy damage no shield can repel. Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor." The Fingers are surely full of vigor in the active round table hold, making this sword a key hint. The fact that the lore of the weapon describes it as a cipher (a key to unlocking a puzzle) I think is a really neat addition.
The roundtable hold could also physically live inside Melina. She burns, she is our vessel teleporting to the round table, we dont see her die, she was born at the foot of the Erd Tree and therefore could be a literal branch from the Erd Tree in some kind of physical/spectral form or is some kind of conduit. We also don't see her die and can still level up so I think shes still kicking it. We also don't see any other maidens for any of the other tarnished who pass through the round table. Could Melina be all of their maidens? Its possible - we know other maidens exist like the dead ones and Hyetta but that doesn't explain why the other tarnished don't ever have maidens with them or mention their maidens.
I think Melina is also rannis body reborn but since she split her soul there’s nothing to control it so marika joined with it
We were inside her?
This theory breaks down if you choose the flame of frenzy, in which case she never burns.
@@xtalpax902giggity
Also, the tutorial message that shows up when you get to the Roundtable Hold explicitly tells you that it's "located outside of this world", so I don't think there's much room for arguing against that.
I remember Dark Souls 3 having THREE versions of the Firelink Shrine. One is the hub, one is the dark Firelink guarded by Champion Gundyr, and the last one where we get transported after putting the cinders of lords in their thrones.
I’ve always felt that the Rountable Hold was in the player character’s mind. It’s laid out similar to the anatomy of a human brain. The table in the middle with the giant grace on it would be the pineal gland. The right side is where you craft and level spirits. The left side is more logical (Gideon and his library). Idk, what do you guys think?
The real grace is under the table.
Don't know if this holds water or not, but there's a chance that "Erd" in Erdtree might be a derivative of the danish prefix "Ur-". Not to be confused with the word for Watch/clock, which is spelt the same way, this prefix is added to the beginning of a word to signify it's status as first among it's kind. "Ur-" in this context more or less translates to "primordial", and if this is the case there is an argument for be made that the Erdtree might also be called the Primordail Tree. Food for thought?
The lore of all time!
Indeed.
@@BONESTORM2501 or I'm just a big steelovsky fan
wait hear me out what if the roundtable hold is in Miquellas dream, i dont really know if thats plausible but sounds cool.
I hope we get more info on Melina when the dlc comes. Mabe she will play more of a role in the dlc.
1:55 it's so weird hearing that quote without a vine boom immediately following it.
The lack of “alright what’s goin’ on guys” is discombobulating.
Another thing to note is that the Roundtable Hold is located far and away from everything else on the map. It's so far removed that nothing else is visible when you're focused on it, like the rest of the world isn't there
When looking at the actual roundtable in the center of the hold, among all the weapons embedded into the table is a giant axe, most likely Hoarah Loux's weapon before he took the name Godfrey or perhaps just the weapon Godfrey used before his current axe. That leaves the question of who the other weapons belong to. Perhaps other Tarnished who followed him or the crucible knights.
I fall under the belief that the Roundtable Hold is a dream, but one born of Marika. It's a sanctuary that she holds in her own memory, a small safe haven that she can maintain fir the Tarnished she called back to the Lands Between.
That actually makes a lot of sense and would explain all the trails of grace coming together to form the heart of the roundtable hold
lol title says "we were all wrong" but then the video just says that the theory most of us have accepted as true for the past year is probably correct
btw i don't think it's correct to say the Erdtree used to be called "the Crucible". the Crucible was "the primordial form of the Erdtree". not "the primordial *name* of the Erdtree". they're two different things. what was the crucible later became a tree ("the Crucible Tree") that eventually was named "The Erdtree". personally, i think the Crucible was the crater where the golden star crashed into the Lands Between, and then a tree grew from the nutrients in the soil there, taking what was in the crater and molding it into a new *form* - but that's just speculation. i think it's pretty safe to say the Crucible wasn't a tree tho, based on the "primordial form" line.
and, GEQ is almost certainly Marika, and Melina seems to be her daughter, so..."memory of the Gloam Eyed Queen"? kind of...
I looked out at the water from atop the tower where you unlock Malenia’s great tune, noticing the shimmer of light upon the water’s surface, the appearance of ‘grace’. Considering all sites of grace you find appear as if it is that same reflection upon a watery purpose, we can only assume it is the source of all grace in the lands between. It stretches far beyond all land masses and structures, and, upon examining the map, you see it’s most likely point of origin is the “lost grace” of the round table hold.
I think the first time this sorta thing was done was bloodborne, then again in DS3 and now here...Miyazaki likes playing with the idea. Some sort of phantom internal haven....
The fact that you fight Gideon and he tried to stop you from getting the elden ring shows you the whole round table was a front from the beginning.
The roundtable hold reminded me of the hunter's dream in bloodborne, where there is a physical replica of the location in the game that's abandoned
The original Roundtable Hold (Leyndell Fortified Manor) champions are Vyke, Old Knight Istvan, Tragoth, Lionel the Lionhearted, Vargram, Knight Bernahl, Errant Sorcerer Wilhelm, Rileigh the idle, Crepus, Sorcerer Alberich, and Godfrey (Hoarah Loux)
I think you're spot-on with the roundtable hold being a rememberance. I've always thought it that way, after I've found the original one.
This round table is like a penn and a test. Leading everyone who joined to their doom. But only who overcame the challenges is worthy of being the elden Lord. Horah loux didn't need that test as he was ex-elden Lord.
Proof of the round table being inside the tree: only this grace doesn't point anywhere or pointed toward. Sparkles don't fly around it like others.
I kinda had the same conclusion last year when I got to Fortified Manor last year in my first play through. It always did come off as a cognitive version of the actual RT Hold and oddly in one of the engravings in the game, you can see what looks like this RT Hold up in the Erdtree design.
I think the Roundtable Hold is a Dark Souls-style Miracle being cast by Marika. Miracles were manifestations of old stories and the faith placed in them, which would be supremely fitting for Marika to cast, recalling the old ways of Godfrey's warband to guide the new Tarnished.
I think Landbetween is real world of ER and Roundtable Hold work like the spirit realm or a host, kinda like Valhalla where all great tanisher warriors come when they die. but Marika broke the circle by destroy the elden ring and hid the Death runes so all fallen tanishers can come back to the Land between
From Software does a great job of pulling inferences from lore all across the world and throughout history to conglomerate them into something familiar yet new, much as old school Magic the Gathering or even Monster in My Pocket did before. So why wouldn't there be a nexus or conclave of long dead, clashing egos fighting to remain extant and carry on their mission? The idea of the vengeful spirit or 'unfinished business' has been a part of human mythology longer than standardized writing. But in this case it's not a house haunted by a single murdered Victorian girl, but an intricate web of destinies that Could have Been, among the largest and most influential being Gideon. Until you come along. And who are you? Another space entity, a cataclysmic accident, a wandering John Travolta meme, or perhaps even the newest iteration of Marika/Radagon willed into existence by the need for a new era? Or it's just a really fun game. What tf do I know?
It could be similar to the Hunter's Dream, or the Nightmare in Bloodborne (each one is controlled by the Moon Presance or Kos respectively from what I understand) in nature, maybe it is connected to the Greater Will itself as with the real hold no longer safe, it needs somewhere for it's would be assassins to have some measure of safety so it creates a duplicate something that would be familiar to older Tarnished and welcoming to newer ones.
But it needs a way to anchor this little sort of pocket dimension to the world for Tarnished to be able to access it, so it ties it to the Erdtree Hewg is potentially just there because he was in the original Roundtable Hold, he might not even know why Marika wanted a weapon to slay a god, she might have just came in someday and told him that was what she wanted,
since I'd imagine it wouldn't be out of place for Marika to have ordered Tarnished and whatever staff the hold might have had (Hewg included) to do things while Godfrey was the Elden Lord, or even after Radagon had become Lord, but the Greater Will just went "oh he's part of the Hold's staff" and somehow moved him into the Hold, why we don't see any other staff is a bit odd however.
FROMSOFTWARE has always done this . I remember seeing the real Firelink shrine in DS3 and the real hunters workshop similar to the hunters dream in Bloodborne. I love his explanation. Makes a lot of sense. Probably the same concept of Farum Azula existing in different time and space. We see Gurranq at the beastial sanctum and fight him (Maliketh) at Farum Azula at a different timeline
I've always thought the Round Table Hold was a pocket dimension or maybe involves some sort of time travel created/maintained by Melina and that the Two Fingers in the throne room was hers. I do think that when Shadow of the Ertree lands we're going to find out more about the RTH because I believe that is where we're going to access it. If the DLC is going to be aimed towards Miquella then it makes perfect sense to me that same door that leads to the Divine Tower of Miquella and Malenia, the area with the Abductor Virgins in the manor, would be the same door to access that DLC. We would learn a lot since potentially we could see what's outside of the RTH. If it is a dream-space then we could figure out whose it is, might be trippy to learn the RTH was Miquella's and the Two Fingers was his. Too many questions and not enough answers.
I wanna say it's a pocket dimension outside the realm of the land between, made by the grace of the Erdtree. I'm not sure what fast traveling does narratively to the player but where you go is real atleast physically. The Erdtree probably took what warriors used as a resting place as a default location and made grace the main way you get to it.
What's your armor set at 10:06? It looks cool
Just for the first time got a weird theory, could round table hold be located on the top of the erdtree as if it’s a divine tower? That is where the fingers seem to land is in a spot of religious significance, the manor is more than likely an old place belonging to Godfrey and a reference to Arthurian legend, round table for his knights, and as for the of the round table hold isn’t a real place, it could be marika’s dream, much like we fight the lich dragon, she dreams of the tarnished that will one day free her, which is why our hub has a guy who was asked by her to create a god slaying armament. And that maybe this explains some thing regarding godwyn, maybe the face under storm veil is a stain, a memory the erdtree left in the spot of it’s happening, as I do believe that’s an old throne room down or dining hall down there, no longer used
The Roundtable Hold is a pocket Dimension inside the fortified Manor. So everything that affects the Manor, affects the Roundtable Hold as well.
The Theory about the Roundtable Hold being inside the Erdtree is partially true.
Because, this isn’t the only pocket Dimension that is linked to the Tree.
There is another one in deep down under the Erdtree.
That’s right.
I am talking about the place we find Fia and Godwyn and fight Lich Dragon Fortissax.
Fia lies with Godwyn to link herself to him in order to create the Rune of the Deathprince.
Godwyn is linked to the Tree and thus the pocket Dimension where we find Fortissax still fighting Godwyns decay, exists.
Marika does the same to give guidance to the tarnished and placed Hewg there to let them be able to forge a Weapon strong enough to fight Radagon and the Great Will.
Marika wasn‘t interested in letting the World suffer eternally as Gideon thought. Instead she wanted to free the World of the Outer Gods and others that all try to force their Order into it.
We have the Great Will with the Golden Order which failed, because the Gods themselves were not better than men.
The frenzied Flame that tries to erase all life from the Universe and return everything to what it was before life started to form.
The Rot, which exists only to consume and grow.
The Allmother, who Mohg serves to spread pain and misery.
The Orders the Demigods have in mind, should they being successful in mending the Elden Ring, like Ranni.
Tarnished like Fia, the Dungeater, Goldmask and ourselves.
The „eternal struggle“ which Gideon mentions that Marika wants for the World, is just life going in a normal way. Free from different forces meddling with other people’s life.
So she wants us to experience life as we are experiencing in reality.
The things needed to accomplish this feat are a tarnished that establishes the right Order, by collecting the Shards of the Elden Ring and mend it in a way so that the Outer Gods are kept out from this World and destined Death to prevent the World from overpopulation, giving some sort of equality to every being through sharing the same fate and provide change, by kinda forcing the people in charge to change with every Generation.
Life = eternal struggle.
But hey! This is just a Theory. A Game-Theory!
Thanks for reading! 🤣
Wow I never even made that connection! Nice one, my friend 👌
Thinking about it, this does seem similar to the Firelink Shine in DS3. A bit out of time and not connected to the “real” world.
The roundtable is a memory of an actual place given form within a pocket dimension that is sustained by the erdtree and or marika. Because when the tree burns so does the construct
I was more surprised about the Dark Firelink Shrine in Dark Souls 3.
This felt not as impressive, because I've seen it before. It was a nice feeling, though. The King Arthur symbology was more impressive, once I connected the dots.
So did one of the outer gods make something that exists outside of time and space? If so, which one, and why? If not them, then who made it. I understand Melina being our spirital guide to the round table hold. However i'm so stuck on who made it and why.
I always assumed it was in the erd tree, I think ppl enjoy looking the souls lore a little too much. You burn the tree, your hub gets lit up too…connect the dots. Cure could be wrong but souls games don’t really hide things from you, they show you everything you just don’t know what it means yet
It took me 4 playthroughs before i realised the grace at Round Table hold was usable; i kept jumping onto the table before getting the popup to use it 😅
I thought they liked the idea of the hunter's dream and transfered it into Elden Ring with a slight variation on the concept, but the same concept nonetheless.
A place for hunters "tarnished" to regroup, plan and sortee from under the will of some demi-god the Moon Presence "Marika". Once its purpose served, to burn away and disappear.
I believe it's mich simpler than we may speculate, but the more minor details surrounding it are always interesting to consider. Like the building looking older than the rest of the capitol is such a fine detail, but what it may allude to I hope we get to know.
Who the hell is Melina, and why is she able to whisk people away to the roundtable? What purpose does this serve Marika, us gaining the power to burn the erdtree, free her, and become elden lord... if we end up fighting her anyways?
I think it's a place repurposed from a place of gathering, and previously run by Banished Knights. The Erdtree's Golden Order wanted to do away with symbols of the less modern standards of its people. Hewg would be old enough to have seen this big change as he references a terror of his seeing Marika, and quite possibly and older age of society where he would be acquainted with another Spirit Tuner, perhaps less regretfully. Hewg would keep his coals a similar way to Iji, in what appears to be the bands found on ankles of giant golems. I imagine the Roundtable would empty out for every new generation of modern humans Marika saw, hoping to create some sort of perfect order and people, but her people began to faulter in faith mlre and more. No more horns, scales, tails, nor wings with grace. An ideological conflict would appear of dragon worship to Golden Order worship, and would be deemed acceptable.
Out of all from soft games the hunter’s dream is the most safest place to be
More safe than Majula? I never played bloodbourne, so its a serious question. Majula does have the well o' death.
@@paultondolojr9432 what about the demonic little pigs 🐖 🐖🐖💢
Btw you can jump off the cliff in majula 💀
Definitely not the safest place
@@paultondolojr9432 yeah honestly it is
@@Grunbeldknight well yeah, i didnt think the cliff was a real hazard unless you were picking up the binocs or whatever was down there. But yeah, you're right.
Bro if anyone here had played BB we'd all be on the same page about how the RTH is more than a fancy fort. it's an incorporeal plane based on the architecture of the fortified manor, not unlike the Hunter's dream being a recreation of The Hunters' Workshop
When we set the erdtree a flame the round table is set a flame too. So Marika created a place to help tarnish gather too free her. The two fingers are probably hers. The place look exactly like the castle of her first husband where he meet with is crucible knights.
Tfw when the video doesn't begin with 'alright what's going on guys' 😢
The Roundtable could have been, originally, the meeting place of Godfrey and his best/strongest knights. After the War with the Dragons, I can see it being abandoned. I can also see the GW using whatever residual power that was left to copy it and use it as it's own. That's why there is two, with one being almost completely out of space and time. My incomplete TDL;R of my thoughts on it
I had always kinda figured that the Roundtable Hold was sort of a pocket dimension that you visit, kinda like the Hunter's Workshop.
And, like the Workshop, it needs both a creator and a pattern.
I'd kindof assumed that the creator, or at least the sustaining power for its existence, is the Two Fingers within it.
But then once created, it _is_ hackable, in a sense. In that there are a few people who have figured out some unintended way to gain entry.
Whether Marika herseld used the Two Fingers to create it, I don't know. Maybe?
The Two Fingers, seems to want a Tarnished to succeed Godfrey and Radagon as Elden Lord. Presumably to give the Golden Order a renaissance of sorts.
But Marika is secretly laying the groundwork to tear the Order down, right?
So, the Roundtable Hold is literally working against itself? And it seems that nearly all Tarnished eho have access to the Hold have abandoned the goal of becoming Elden Lord (if they ever truly had it) and found their own individual goals to pursue.
Why continue to allow them entry? And have they all abandoned their maidens, who would be urging them to continue pursuing the title of Elden Lord?
These maidens of other Tarnished have always interested me. I have a lot of questions about them.
The Roundtable Hold Is A Memory brought onto reality by the powers of Queen Marika and tye Grace given by the Greater Will. Yeah that makes sense.
It’s the in the greater wills mind most likely or it’s in the erdtree
Great work bro, beyond interesting. This was a great perspective, wonder if lore will be added
The tapestries in the Roundtable Hold depict a cart looking structure in the erdtree canopy. That's likely the roundtable hold 🤷
I believe that’s mainly metaphorical
@Ziostorm right. I believe the round table exists between reality. Kinda like the real erdtree. Which is why they're likely thought of as one and the same. Which is what I gather from your video and all the other folks that have examined this.
I guess I never gave it that much thought, but I had assumed that it was something like a dream…
I always thought of it as a spiritual nexus between certain characters in the land. I loosely theorized it after the dung eater quest and that abandoned roundtable manor in the city
Always thought roughly the same. That the Round Table we visit is parallel to the Fortified Manor.
However, this video got me thinking: Whose Two Fingers is in the roundtable?
What's really weird is that we found Hewg's hammer in the Leyndell
I always thought melina was marika. And thats why when we kill radagon his body crumbles, because marika is no longer inside keeping him whole.
I think it'll make more sense once we learn more about this land of spirits or whatever is going on with the DLC promo art.
Currently, I have no idea what to make of it. I don't think it's a physical place in the Lands Between. But there are a few things that make me think that it is tied to the Erdtree but not in a way that seems obvious.
That said, I want to disagree with the idea that the old Hold in Leyendell is an older building. If you've been following Tarnished Archaeologist at all, you'll know that there's good reason to think that the nameless Eternal City was actually above ground at one point and was in fact called Leyendell, Eternal City.
Why does this matter? The Leyendell Capital that we know was built up around the Eternal City Leyendell. That's why there's a big hole out where the front door should lead. So, they clearly had no issues with contrasting architectural styles. Given that this is the case, it's not actually clear when Godfrey's hold was built. Only that it was built by a different group than the Leyendell Capital artisans. It could be older, it could be the newest addition. Personally I think it's relatively new and was made to suit Godfrey's personal tastes more than anything else. But that's a long argument I'll not go into here. Point is, we can't definitely say when it was built.
I see the round table hold like overlook hotel where those with grace who continue long enough find. It’s outside temporal existence & the inner world of the player & meetings with people there are amalgamations of interactions with people in the world & representations of inner concepts/thoughts
I came to this conclusion a while back. What I don't get (and what is probably a massive contrivance) is how the Tarnished travel to and from the Roundtable Hold via the in-game lore.
Great video man. Was wondering if we could ever get a setup video maybe in the future? Anyways keep up the awesome work and keep hoping for dlc trailer!
there is a cut way to be sent to the roundtable hold, and it was with vare's help.
it makes me think that earlier in the development there was the option to reject melina and finish the game without her
I used to think the Roundtable was sustained by the Greater Will. But Marika doing it also makes sense, since she called the tarnished back.
Hi, I know I am a bit late to the party, but you comparing "outer" Roundtable Hold to the Hunter's Dream reminded me about Demon' Souls. Melina during our first meeting calls us a "traveler from beyond the fog", what literally is who the main character from Demon Souls is. Boletaria was cut off from the world by the fog and we come from the outside to the inside of the kingdom. Demon' Souls protagonist is the most litteral traveler from beyond the fog one possibly can be. The hub area, The Nexus, is similarly "somewhere out there". And also in your Erdtree video you pointed at significance of colors, on which Hawkshaw has a few hours long video. The mist in Demon Souls is draining everything of it's color, it's original native inhabitants are even named Colorless Demons. Also, Demon Souls was the direct precedessor to Dark Souls with it's full formula, while Elden Ring is successor (Bloodborne barely has any spells for the player and left/right hand are separate for customisation, while Sekiro has no weapon nor armor choice at all). I'd be very interested if you made a video about Elden Ring's story through Demon' Soul's lenses. Of note is also that Astrea and Fia have identical "boss fight", and are very similar characters. You don't fight either of them directly, only fight their guard, after what neither of them is a threat. Both claim to be the only caretakers of the poor and opressed, are closely relates to death and decay and both willigly abandoned the highier class of the main faction.
The round table hold is set in a parallel universe in the future.... A time when Boc is elden lord 🪡
Zio did you refer to the Roundtable as The Coordinate as… an Attack on Titan reference?
Interesting take, but aren't tarnished people who were expelled before? Wouldn't the fort just be a memory similar to Bloodborne's dream?
It would be the memory of the grace, of Marika's place of command a central hub from where everyone does as they are told.
But everyone in the hold eventually deviates and suffers some form of misfortune from abandoning grace.
They can do that because they're still alive but suffer permadeath when killed outside the hold.
The Blacksmith might have become muddled and confused not only because he's chained to the hold, but because he can't return to his body outside of the dream as a result of Marika's curse. Thus his projection would be forever severed and he becomes lost still bound to the roundtable with no escape, stuck in purgatory.
Does anyone else felt bad doing the volcano manor questline? I hate how some items are only available if you become the bad guy and hunt your fellow tarnished.
You make the the darkforce holding the world of elden ring sound like matrix computer (as described in dr who as a computer containing all knowledge which ended up also containing all dead (ie their souls) of all time) almost like the erdtree's sap is the memories of others and so to consume this sap would be to obtain memories or knowledge of the ancients. Love your perspective of it's a memory held amongst the all of it's inhabitants, like an astral version of the fort and we are just astral projecting into the goddess's mind controlling it.
How is your quality of details is so good? I am also playing on Mobiuz 4k but not OLED, the problem with HDR mode makes lightning all messed up, can you please share your settings
I pretty much arrived at many of the same conclusions as you. It somehow makes sense that the Roundtable Hold is a recreation of sorts, not a real physical place.
The roundtable hold is likely a fixed point in time. Elden ring is a world caught in an unfinished cycle, thusly caught in a repetitive cycle of death, what if the tarnished and the demigods are just stuck in groundhogs day until they no longer have the will to resist falling into dust.
The invitation that a Tarnished needs comes from their Maiden. That is why Varre kills our Maiden and is surprised when he finds out we did get to the Roundtable Hold and he even starts to question us as to how. To me it’s clear why Varre kills our Maiden. He wants us maiden-less and away from the influence of the Roundtable Hold so that he can become our guide in the hopes of recruiting us into Lord Mohg’s ranks as bloody fingers.
it's very fitting that the closest thing to home in this world is a lie
better off with a lgc1 than a gaming monitor has all the same tech plus smart tv stuff, and probably way cheaper
I have a C2 and it works great.
@@fastenedcarrot9570 when I got my c1 the c2 was out but was pretty much the same tv just with a new case, I managed to get it for £800 (55") so I was going for the c1 :) even with c3 I think c1 if you can get one still pretty much the same tv, but yeah man lg c series of tv are amazing have completely leveled up my set up and like I sed has all the features you want from a monitor and a smart tv, seems like the smart option for your money to me
There's only one 2fingers and it's in the current round table where it "Belongs"!
That's why it's not at its old haunt!
Goldmask is onnthe broken bridge just pointing at the tree lmao
I noticed something strange in the roundtable. The one with a big grace has a big axe splitting the stone tree on the table, right down the middle. But the one with out the big grace has the axe switched with one of the swords. I have to wonder if it has to do with marika having 2 different beings tied to her. But i honestly feel like radagon is like soul of cinder, and has to do with the people who gave lives for the birth of the golden order, with elden beast similar to gwyn in being the god that incepted the idea of a controlling order
New king consort, new roundtable. Is that what you're saying? One with Godfrey's axe buried in it and another with Radagon's sword.
Although I, personally, wouldn't say Marika's soul was "tied to" either of them. That sounds like dressing up the act of marriage to be more than what it was. Marika needed an enforcer, a champion to inflict her will on the battlefield. Love had nothing to do with it and they weren't soul mates.
When she disgraced Godfrey and banished him and his army, she alone would have no real control over the Lands Between. Thus Radagon, an illusion of might, suddenly appeared.
What's confusing is did Radagon and Marika know they were the same being or did Radagon suddenly appear (like Melina) acting of his own accord without realizing he was an extension of Marika's soul?
@@RecluseBootsy I'm honestly trying to find purpose in erdtree burial and after searching, felt like the gaps in information about where radagon comes from and where champion souls go when absorbed by the tree could tie to gather, I can see a lot of themes from dark souls being played out. And radagon is very similar to soul of cinder. There's just no description as to why marika suddenly changes into him. But if she has been absorbing the souls of bloodthirsty warriors willing to die for her, can she not feel them inside of her? The souls of her order that would never break the elden ring aren't givin permission to leave, they break free and fight you to stop the end of the world. All my opinion of course lol
Also I don't think I disagree with really anything you said
Hewn into the tree simply means death returns to the tree, no?
It may be like the anti tree of life.
Its also possible the roundtable is a dream or memory stuck in a dream.
I think the Two Fingers made the Round Table Hold as a way of manipulating the Tarnished into restoring the Golden Order and the Elden Ring.
Marika intended the Tarnished to return and fight to become Elden Lord, but she says she doesn’t care how or why they do it.
So I think the Two Fingers made the Roundtable hold, luring Tarnished there with gifts like resources, shelter, food, knowledge and the strength of runes. And, once there, they manipulate the Tarnished with rhetoric and the finger maiden’s guidance.
What I would like to know is how the others got there. Did Melina take them all, meaning they all know her but none of them mention her? Supposedly we're the one who brings Roderika, but we never actually have an interaction telling her about it. And surely Melina wouldn't invite Dung Eater?
Maybe it’s inside Melina, she’s most likely rannis body reborn without her soul after she died on the tower and marika inhabits it so the round table hold burns like she did and didn’t get bad until death was returned
It would make sense why she is able to invite you there too
I found where the blacksmith would be in the open world but nobody was there
I kind of thought this theory was obvious, but maybe it’s because I played Bloodborne and the two hubs operated similarly, in terms of function and vibe.
CONFIRMED: Shadow of the Erdtree DLC Entrance will be in the Roundtable Hold
I figured that the Round Table Hold exists as a pocket space inside the Erdtree. Marika most likely created it after the half death of Godwyn as a prison for Hugh the Blacksmith and a place of refuge for the Tarnished in the future. The main reason is changes or starts to burn is because it is part of the Erdtree in some way or another.