The Capital Ship that could've SAVED THE EMPIRE | Star Wars Lore
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Today we take a look at the Lancer Frigate - one of the Galactic Empire's most well designed capital ships, and a good companion to any Star Destroyer.
music: Alison - Space Echo // Fourge - Velvet 2600
lancer model by FractalSponge: fractalsponge.n...
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What should I stream tonight? www.twitch.tv/eckhartsladder
I was thinking Empire at War, but am open to other options!
Empire at War!
H i if you stream can I get a shoutout
Warthunder!
Tacos
I would love to see more Thrawn's Revenge Empire at War!
Empire: Oh all our plans are foiled by enemy fighters. If only there was something we could do!
Lancer: Am I joke to you?
Empire: Anything that is not terrifying to an ordinary citizen is automatically out.
I mean, to be fair, yes the TIE was no match one on one for the X-wing, but the entire point of having a small, cheap, stripped down fighter was to have a dozen or more TIEs up against each X-wing. They were effective enough in battles as the attack on the first Death Star shows. The place where the X-wings had clear superiority was in their sudden attacks from hyperspace, destroy what they could, and get back out before the TIEs had a chance to launch. (Not saying the Empire wouldn't have benefited from squadrons of TIE-Advanceds which were much more in line with the X-wing in ability. Those things could have remained in space alongside the ships they were escorting, and not having to take time to be launched)
To be fair, the Lancer was good against fighters but is terrible against capital ships. That would merely move the Rebel Operations from Star Fighter attacks to corvette/frigate ships.
Justin Van Volkenburg The Empire literally has thousands of capital ships, a shift in the rebellion strategy to frigates would outright end them.
@@captin3149I have no idea where this notion that the Tie stood no chance against an X-wing on its own. the movies don't show this since we see Tie Fighters and Tie interceptors shooting down Rebel fighters all the time.
Empire: has a hard counter to fighters, never uses it right, fails miserably
Thrawn: has a hard counter to fighters,abuses the hell out of it, continues to look badass
Midknight0122 maybe thrawn wasn’t that smart, the rest of the empire was just so stupid he looked like a genius by comparison.
@@TheObsidianX nah. It's called bad writing.
@@TheObsidianX When you consider the empire is largely based on WWII Germany, stumbling from one military and strategic blunder to the next despite impressive hardware is entirely in character. "Hey, we have this really effective but boring weapon platform. If we build lots of them we'll easily win the war!" "Nah, build more superweapons. Mass production is boring"
@@FireStormOOO_ true like how germany should’ve just made a lot of panthers and planes instead of makin tigers and V2s
@@TheObsidianX nah. Thrawn's a genius
Roses are red
The galaxy was on fire
Here is the capital ship
That could've saved the Empire
Alas, we are better off with the empire NOT being saved. Outside if legends anyway, and even there it is debatable.
meh
Just one thing: it's not a capitol ship. It's a sub-capital ship - or as sci-fi in general likes to simplify: escort ship. In fact it's a prototypical escort ship. It's also not the only terribly underutilized, but terrifyingly effective aa-screen ship empire had. Just take Raider Corvette.
Frigates aren't capital ships. They're escorts.
@@SephirothRyu the flaws of the empire where with Palpatine and the corruption at the higher ranks. With some shits in Imperial policy and the elimination of overly ambitious, politically minded officers and you'd see a less shit empire.
Ahh the lancer. A metal can with as many AA guns bolted on as the thrusters can handle.
Its almost like something a real space force might build.
The US did build something like it in WW2. The Atlanta class was situated between cruisers and destroyers in size and was absolutely festooned with AA mounts. It had 8 turrets with dual 5 inch AA guns and the some 30 other smaller AA guns. It's whole job was to park next to carriers and battleships, then shoot planes. The lead ship, Atlanta, was at the Battle of Midway.
@AKUJIRULE Yes, but it was by far the smallest of the cruisers. It straddled the line between destroyer and cruiser.
Your knowledge on naval boats is awesome.
Me in space engineers
@@Elthenar It was a dedicated AA cruiser?
Better yet, invest in TIE Defenders. Take the Rebel strategy of using starfighters, dump Imperial resources into doing it better, then commence evil laughter.
*Cries in Thrawn Doctrine*
@@tau-5794 it was zaarin idea not thrawn
@@laisphinto6372 thrawn was the main person who supported it and put it forward
Would have been interesting to calculate how many TIE Defenders you could build for 2 stupid death stars.
@@Brakiri 6.6 million+
I still play Rebellion and as the Empire, I build every fleet with 4 Lancers minimum and they shred the rebellions fighters.
What game are you playing??
@@siegfried2k4 store.steampowered.com/app/441550/STAR_WARS_Rebellion. Old star wars game
They are slow in the game though, lancers for full fleets and assault frigates with victory IIs for harassment
THIS. I often play "Star Wars: Rebellion" and once I research the Lancer, I always include 4-6 of them in a fleet. Absolutely shreds Rebel starfighters along with getting the TIE Defender later on and the TIE Interceptor prior to that.
Even so, the Lancer is a dedicated anti-starfighter platform which is a MUST for any Imperial fleet and will also cut your own reliance and losses on starfighters.
In any Rebellion game I play, discovering the Lancer (or its rebel counterpart the Corellian Gunship) is the biggest game changer. Cpu loves stocking systems with fighters and any fleet carrying a few of these nullifies that obsession.
I feel like, hearing your review of the Lancer frigate, pairing three of them with an Interdictor cruiser and some manner of Carrack cruiser/Victory Star Destroyer, and posting one of these groups along each of the major hyperspace lanes, would have crippled the Alliance long before the Battle of Endor. And how different the galaxy far, far away would be . . .
You forgot arguably the best light cruiser in the galaxy the arqitens
The Lancer looks beasty with all it's turrets.........good thing for the rebellion they were not properly used
Jay yeah. I saw them in x wing alliance. Protecting a med station and destroying a convoy during training
Mmm, i don't know.
It could be because whoever designed it forgot to add the sloped triangle to the front. Or its severe lack of actual cannons. A simple missile launcher mounted to the back would've been fine.
You mean "Good thing we prefer the 'good guys' to ultimately WIN in our media of books & movies"
@@Armageist when i was a kid ( saw episodes 5 and 6 in cinemas ) i was for the alliance, and since 20 years i'm for the empire :)
@@jay1st1st I'm not talking about you personally. I'm referencing Lucas, Lucasfilm, the makers of the movie.
In other words, they weren't properly used because the Rebels would've lost, so we can't have that for the plot of the movie universe, can we?
How would you restructure the Imperial Navy if you became the Emperor? #AskEck
Give total command of the Imperial Navy over to Thrawn.
Quite simple in fact ... grab Jar Jar Binks, clone him billions an billions of time and let him loose in the Galaxy... 2-3 days will be all you need for the galaxy to surrender and swear allegiance to you...
Mass produce the TIE defender over the Death Star.
Move the bridge of a star destroyer in a safer position. This is probably one of the major reason why the Empire lose star destroyers.
Make not so big cruisers and destroyers with no exposed bridges, ship carriers, with good point defense system, really flexible, hire excellent admirals like Thrawn, excellent fighters like the TIE DEFENDER, Mass produce it along with TIE PHANTOMS.
This is why I had 2 Lancers for every star destroyer in my fleets in Star Wars Rebellion
The Tie defenders did a nice job too.
Bought the game on Steam a couple of years ago. Had the original back in 1998.
It’s the same thing I did...... but to be fair, if there are more fighter squadrons around. Yr lancers are also toast. U need fighter support as well
@@bryantay2900 I know. I don't buy TIE bombers and load my Star Destroyers up with first fighters, then interceptors.
Holy protector of ensigns here. i got the @everyone on discord,
i got your back eck.
"If they are in a specific position" Lightning hit and run attacks worked because rebels hit what you can get away with. Though the carrack was great against this one rebel tactic IF it happens to be in the perfect escort or defensive position." The interdictors and the Tie Defender is basically this same argument.
At the end of the day. Hearts and Minds are what win against the Empire. Not what ships they deployed :D
Do you still play Homeworld?
The time is near!
Our Lord and Savior Valiant Class Superheavy Cruiser/BattleCruiser is coming
Our lord is glorious!!!
@Lord Admiral Spire Everything our Lord has is long!
Pfft, no match for the macross.
Where sun crusher when you need one
Corran didn't use force trickery to destroy the lancer. He had his astromech set his controls to go through a randomizer and had the Y wings target his transponder. He was on one side, they were on the other of the lancer. He was in range of the lancer, they were not.Their missiles struck home. He forgot about this transponder and the 2 torpedoes that were launched late nearly killed him until his astromech shut his transponder off. "Cut it out!" meant cut the randomizer off but his droid simply shut the transponder off. The torpedoes lost lock and exploded.
The Y-Wings were actually on the same side as Horn.
@@dat581 I meant he was on one side of the Lancer and they were on the other. My memory is a bit fuzzy on the details though.
I think you perfectly nailed Jacen's turn to the dark side. To be fair he is one of my top five favorite Legends characters.
I still need the rest of those books, I have Betrayal and Bloodlines, I do have the complete series of Fate of the Jedi though.
It always seemed strange to me that tie fighter's were unshielded and crap.
Also that the star destroyers had no CWIS equivalent.
Or stupid tactics like with poe, why were the tie squadron's not scrambled immediately on detection?
Why don't the first order have lancer pickets?
Or some kind of ship that can carry a small number of shielded tie's and anti fighters guns or missiles like a modern helicopter carrier?
sauce force
IIRC the TIE was a lot like the Japanese Zero in being focused on agility at the expense of protection.
Re: CIWS, remember; offensive weaponry will usually end up defeating defensive weaponry, and AA weaponry is still a distant second to actual air/space superiority.
The real reason is that the heroes have to win and the bad guys have to be highly incompetent to allow for consistent victories against a much larger force. Also the Star Wars universe was made by a bunch of writers not military strategists.
I look at it this way:
Empire - needs to have fighter capability in lots of locations to handle all sorts of basic protection. Making them all top scale would cost a lot, and be overkill for most situations. So they build a basic fighter and give it obscene maneuverability so it doesn't get hit, and add software capabilities to make it nasty. They can rely on nearly any system giving their fighter support if needed, as the Empire is the legitimate government
Rebels - need their fighters to have independent FTL capability so the fighters can get away to safety in one of the few systems that is willing to support them, without risking one of their few capital ships. The Rebels might have been able to afford more non-FTL fighters, but the cost in capital ships and lost pilots wouldn't be practical.
For the Lancer, those would likely be getting picked off by summoned Rebel ships whenever the Lancers were by themselves, meaning that you would have to deploy a decent capital ship with them anyway. I wonder if a CR90 corvette (~150 meters long) could duel a Lancer (~250 meters long) and if not defeat, then at least drive it off (CR90 = the blockade runner seen in ANH).
Makes you wonder how many empirial higher-ups are continuously smacking Tarkin in the afterlife for drawing up the Tarkin Doctrine and basically signing the empire's death warrent
Should allow for flexibility, yes.
I never knew Tarkin micromanaged so much.
Much of the Imperial higher ups were all responsible for the mess that the Empire turned into. They're probably all pointing fingers and smacking each other. It's what they usually did in life already.
Usually, I read of the Tarkin Doctrine as about inspiring fear and intimidation, not pouring all the cash into huge ships and stripped back fighters.
chris sonofpear1 that was how I always saw it. A way of using fear to subjugate others. Useful in the short term, almost always doomed to fail in the long term.
According to Rogue One, it wasn't Tarkin who failed but Krennic, who allowed his Death Star to be sabotaged at the design phase. Without the hilarious exhaust port flaw, the Death Star was a game winner. The only ways to kill it would be a similar superweapon or to board it. Good luck.
Always had some lancer frigates in my Imperial fleets on Star Wars: Rebellion
I love that game. You just really needed an air force
Vs matchup
Imperial light cruiser vs CR90 corvette
TheWingland I think the imperial light cruiser would easily win, but I would love to see what ech has to say about that
We see Arquitens-class light cruisers kick the shit out of CR90s in the Moving Target novel. That should come as no surprise. They are twice or thrice the size and have twice the firepower.
Better match-ups would be:
Arquitens-class light cruiser vs EF76 Nebulon-B frigate
[Both are in the same size range]
Raider-class corvette vs CR90 corvette
[Again, both are in the same size range]
@@raghuvarv I think a fairer fight would be the Rendili Light Corvette vs the CR-90.
Never clicked on a video of yours so fast! Love your content my dude!
Only the empire could ignore a direct counter to the magnum opus of the Rebellion's tactics.
Why are we taking about spider eggs?
What are your thoughts on Kreia's philosophy regarding the nature of the Force? #AskEck
These are a must in Empire at war. I once had a fight against the rebels in which they had 60+ carriers. By the end even though I destroyed all capital ships, I had to withdraw (thus "lose") because there were so much fighters & bombers on the field they were able to drop StarDestroyers
In the mods, rather?
@@chrissonofpear1384 Yes. Sorry I always play with Thrawn's Revenge: Imperial civil war. It's one of the best mods imho
Vs matchup
Brute or Brute chieftain from Halo vs A Predator from the Predator franchise. With 2 rounds First round unarmed and unarmored. Second round fully armed and armored
2:38
me: Oh yes! finally, the Tartan Patrol Cruiser is going to get some love!
Eck: ...the Lancer frigate...
Me: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Same man
I think the Lancer LOOKS nicer, but is arguably the weaker ship.
@@chrissonofpear1384 I mean... have u seen the cool slick and sexy low-poly Tartan cruiser in EaW?
I don't like Empire at War exclusive ships
@@EckhartsLadder is it really not covered in an EU book/comic?
A upgraded Venator with point defenses lasers placed in different places and a few more turbo lasers could have helped to
Hey ecks, i know you have community polls for this but i think if you get the chance you should cover Destiny 1&2 a bit more, it has fantastic lore and some badass battles to breakdown. Hope you have a great day, and keep up the awesome content
Memento Mori oh lol thanks dude
Vs matchup
Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars)
Rex armed with an E11, Johnson with a rock...... That he has to share
Sgt. Johnson knows what the ladies like.
Rex I believe would destroy Johnson. It would be one helluva fight though. And that's not to knock Johnson's ability it's just that Rex is that good. But that's just my opinion.
As a pretext to the uninitiated, Sgt. Johnson was not a normal human. He was part of the first Spartan program but not even close the modifications and enhancements that Spartan IIs received.
TheWingland
I would love to see this. Seeing Sargent Johnson beat up kiddies is always fun to see, after all:
“AM I RIGHT MARINES?!!”
“Sir Yes Sir!”
“Mmhm. Damn right I am. NOW MOVE IT OUT!”
Lancers are always some of my favorite ships in modded Empire at War. Rebels like to spam like 40 bomber wings at a time and my Lancers shred them, lol.
jacen's turn is one of the best through line stories in the EU
I liked the slow cooker way it was done, but I was always under the impression that certain writers did not want anything to do with it.
The results are that Jacen comes across very schizophrenic. On one hand he's seen a vision of the galaxy in flames and is willing to do anything he can to prevent it while flying under the radar cause he's rightfully afraid Luke is going wreck his shit.
While simultaneously putting one black armor and a cape and acting like Vader reborn and daring the galaxy to come at him.
Very unevenly written.
It was garbage. Just like the rest of the NJO era.
When I read "The Capital Ship that could've saved the empire" I knew it was the Lancer without even looking at the thumbnail or watching the video. Also in the category of things that could have saved the Empire: Mounting anti-fighter weaponry on Star Destroyers, deploying proper escort groups with Star Destroyers, Not building Death Stars, Hiring a good PR department, Not murdering officers (particularly for failing to capture notoriously evasive smugglers), emphasizing promotion based on competence, building more Gladiator-Class Star Destroyers and Not being super-evil (Moderate Evil is fine).
I have been at the receiving end of a lot of starfighter swarms as the empire in Empire at War and that made me love two ships: the Lancer and the TIE Defender.
Or you could just build TIE Defenders... oh wait, no one ever listens to Thrawn!
Marconius hence why they lost most of the time.
Thrawn is one of the most tedioualy overhyped characters in the franchise...
@@minicle426 That's because he earned it
Just imagine if every imperial fleet had featured some escort ships like these and if Tie Defenders had been used more widely... The Rebellion wouldn't have had a chance at beating the Empire
They could have still won, but it would have taken cranking out battle droids, Vulture droids, and CIS ship designs in remote systems and outside the galactic plane to accomplish this.
Whenever I play Star Wars Rebellion, and am Imperial.. I always run a ton of Lancers because they could wipe out fighters with very little losses. I'm glad to see these powerhouses getting their due attention.
The Skipray Blast Boats were also amazing ships that could have countered the Rebel fighers, flying escort for long duration.
The top three-four arguments against Lancers entering widespread service was due to their slow speed (stated as being fast enough to catch Y-wing bombers but slow enough to not catch X-wings, B-wings, or A-wings), high cost, and manpower intensive, plus the lack of any capital ship grade weaponry meant it was vulnerable against smaller ships such as the Corellian Corvette or Gunship. You also incorrectly stated the Carrack as a slow and clunky vessel when they're faster ships than the Lancer. A common modification of the Carrack was to replace the ion cannons with the same type of quad laser cannons mounted on the Lancer, in this role the Carrack was more popular of a anti-starfighter ship since it still have the heavy turbolaser cannons to defend against other enemy capital ships of the same size or smaller.
I think the West End Games RPG stats had it not faster than a Rendili Dreadnaught originally?
Considering the TIE Defender was dropped for the "battle moon" and not picked up again after Yavin, proves the Empire was always going to fail. It couldn't adapt, so it died
I would say that the Empire wasn’t willing to adapt vs not being able to on the first place.
Lots of issues could have been fixed had people like Palpatine listened to the right people. One example being how Thrawn realized that it would have been more efficient to simply build more Star Destroyers alongside the Tie Defender project rather than put all those eggs into the one proverbial basket that was the Death Star. But Sidious wouldn’t listen (yes the Death Star would strike fear into those who heard about it but unlike a massive fleet it couldn’t be everywhere it needed to be at once). Add that to the fact that Sidious never learned from his mistake and made the dumbass decision to build another one after the first one clearly failed.
Yeah Thrawn knew what was wrong the whole time. Putting more funding and production into things like the Tie Defender project would have been the better long term answer.
I'm still waiting for an SCP video on 3333. One of these days Eck will see this
Lancers also had fairly major logistical issues. According to the Guide to the Empire from WEG (second ed at least) they were lucky to get more than half their guns functioning for any engagement. Having half your weapons disabled before battle started seems less than effective. It seems by Thrawn's era a lot of this issue was sorted - or at least they were deployed in concentrated packs so they were made a priority for technicians to get operational.
But during Corran Horn's attack run on one in 'Rogue Squadron' he has his sensors scan for any gun towers which were inoperational - something that if it's during the middle of an attack run seems like he considered it worthwhile to do so, which implies this was a regular occurence.
I've been waiting for this video. Also I like that wedge said "fast for it's size"
Seems at least as fast as the VSD, per the old RPG stats.
@@chrissonofpear1384 well since sources disagree with how fast it is, fast for it's size could still be empirically slow
I heard 50 MGLT, originally.
West End Games had numbers for sublight speed, 8 for the X-Wing, 6 for the B-Wing and so forth.
Speed 4 equal 50 MGLT in comparison, per careful comparisons.
The Lancer frigate does look awesome
Awesome video. Really love the Lancer class frigate. As a firm TIE fighter defender I feel it my duty to point out that TIE fighters were actually incredible fighters but, due to the Tarkin Doctrine, and Imperial military structure they were used incorrectly. Instead of being used by highly trained, elite pilots, they were used en masse in wave attacks where they lost the massive advantage they had over every one of the rebel fighters with the possible exception of the A-Wing. In the A New Hope we see them easily out maneuvering X-Wings. Had this recognition of the abilities of the ship been capitalized upon, the Empire would have presented a much more formidable foe to the Rebel Alliance.
I come for the Star Wars knowledge and stay for the outro with the cute doggo.
Vs Machup
CCS-class cruiser vs Godzilla 2014-2019
CCS-class cruiser vs King Ghidorah
Good, informative video. (I didn't really know anything about Lancers before this)
Do a video talking about the GAT-12 Skipray Blastboat, while we’re on the subject of underutilized imperial ships.
Only one ship could've truly saved the Galactic Empire...
The Tartan!
Lancer is better
No, not one ship... One philosophy.
The Tartan Doctrine!
@@SymbioteMullet lancers is still better
*tartan cruiser reporting*
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this comment. TARTAN CRUISER REPORTING!
Are you referring to the Halo Valiant Class Super-Heavy Cruiser/Battlecrusier?
*finish the fight plays in the background*
I like how you look at the economics of this galaxy far far away. Not a lot of people watch movies and put into perspective how much reality is actually skewed, because of the ludicrous amounts of money they would have to spend for some of the items.
Palpatine: so you want me not to make a big super laser, and instead use this little ship that is 1000 times smaller? imperial: yes my lord. Palpatine: shoots lightning at imperial.
I wouldn't call the Lancer a capital ship, but it was an effective anti-starfighter escort ship. The Empire might have had a significant improvement in their performance with a slight change in their doctrine, if they had maintained a constant combat air patrol around their fleets and installations and kept a ready to launch fighter squadron in their hangers it would have greatly limited the effectiveness of the Rebel's starfighters shock value using their hyperdrives. More Lancers would've helped but a change in doctrine would have been a faster fix.
Other Rogue Squadron books talk about how the gunnery systems on the Lancer were taken from the TIE Bomber (not the quad lasers, I'm talking other systems) and that they experienced limitations because of their conversion from starfighter to ship-board duty due to it being outside of their initial design. Those limitations were exploited. Corran Horn did something like this in one of those books getting Y-wings (who would've been too slow to avoid being shredded) firing torpedoes at him, him closing the distance on the Lancer and interposing the ship between himself and the oncoming torpedoes, destroying the frigate.
The one thing I did like was that in games like X-Wing Alliance, capital ships will target and shoot down incoming warheads. X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, the capital ship AI does not. In the older game, you can use your warheads to clear all of the gun emplacements off one side of the ship, close to laser cannon range, put a rubber band on your trigger while you blast the now defenseless destroyer while you go make a sandwich.
I'd like to think that ships covered with point defense cannons would be able to target and shoot down incoming warheads. Especially ships with 20 quad lasers on towers to improve their firing arcs.
Vs machup Spartan 2 vs Tyrannosaurs Rex
Round 1: Barehanded
Round 2: Assault Rifle & Battle Rifle
Round 3: Rocket Launcher
Godzilla Boi ....does this imply that the T-Rex gets those weapons too?
@@CaptainDemo779 has to.
Is anyone gonna take notice of the doge at the end of the vid? It's one of the many reasons I love these lore videos so much
Isn't the Lancer frigate and upgrade for the Tartan cruiser which was also an anti-fighter ship? You'd think because the Rebels used more fighters, especially during the early years before the Mon Calamari joined with their capital ships that the Empire would spend more credits on anti-fighter ships.
I remember these ships from X-Wing Alliance- These things were so hard to kill!
I think I took one down singlehanded in the Otana once?
It's kinda amazing how much the fandom was able to fill in the holes left by bad writing, budget limits, and the lack of special effects technology.
Yeah I had to laugh at this.... The mighty Imperial Navy lost because.... That's the story.
If the main advantage of the Rebel X-wings was that they could come out of hyper space before TIE fighters could be deployed then a simple changes in SOP would negate that advantage.
After getting hit once by an ambush attack the CAG commander could just order that a defensive squad of TIEs were always flying on patrol.... Kind of like USA Carrier battle groups do....
Your videos always get me on the mood to play EaW again
How the Empire could have crushed the Rebellion:
Step 1) Build a ton of Lancers
Step 2) Mass produce the TIE Defender
Step 3) Abandon the Tarkin Doctrine
Also not be a totalitarian piece of shit
Remind me specifically how the Tarkin Doctrine worked. I know it was mostly a method of using fear to keep others in line but I don’t quite remember the specifics.
@@ShadowGhost0117 The Tarkin Doctrine was to use fear and overwhelming power to intimidate the people to keep the various systems in line. That meant lots of big ships like the ISD's, SSD's and of course, the Death Star. Starfighters were never viewed as being any real threat, so the Empire never put much investment into anti-starfighter defenses
razgriz501 thanks, didn’t remember the specifics but I knew it was a strategy that only worked to a certain extent. And not as much as was needed.
@@ShadowGhost0117 Don't mention it!
I LITERALLY FINISHED THE BOOK ROGUE SQUADRON YESTERDAY!!!
I remember these from the Empire At War game I had for PC. They were an essential part of my fleet, always.
Jacen Solo's fall to the darkside was probably one of the best series written in the expanded universe. It was a "what's next" feast up until the end. You really see that if a couple things went differently there would have been a new empire ruling the galaxy.
can we get an F for all those impstar bois who got rekt by fighters
F
F
F
F
I'm not sure if this ever came up in the novels, but in the Saga Edition Star Wars RPG sourcebook Starships of the Galaxy, it is said that the early models of the Lancer class frigate (developed after Yavin) were plagued with unreliable fire-control computers prone to catastrophic malfunctions that could shut down half their guns at a time. Until that problem was solved, it is understandable that the Empire wouldn't want to rely on Lancers too much and so they didn't really start to become a factor until after Endor. In the RPG book they're noted as being fast for a capital ship but still slower than most fighters, thus best used as a screen to keep enemy fighters away from larger vessels or as Thrawn did - to raid planets mostly defended by fighters
Me: *Designs own STAR WARS ship*
Everyone Else: "Nobody gives a F#$%"
I give a fuck.
Tell me about it.
*Desire to know more intensifies*
@@FBI-ju5no got a Twitter account?
@@26th_Primarch got a Twitter account?
@@DerpyTurtle0762
Nah, i stay off social media.
Care to hear my redesign of the Eclipse?
Frigates aren't capital ships, they are more like escort ships
They can certainly be used as capital ships in smaller forces. As goes the Rebellion’s motto, “Anything is a capital ship if you’re desperate enough.”
@@a.morphous66 Yes, they can be used as capital ships, but they aren't capital ships by definition.
@@a.morphous66 So is the Falcon officially a capital ship considering the "not rebellion" current state in Episode 8/9?
@@scorpixel1866
If you botch the definition or standard of what something is, sure, you can call shit chocolate with enough mental gymnastics.
A star cruiser should be the MINIMUM size for a capital ship, to my mind.
For all the supposed shields the Alliance fighters had, they seemed to blow up just as easily as TIEs when hit. Either Imperial weapons are vastly more powerful or the shields are practically worthless.
The Tarkin Doctrine is honestly a far more extreme version of the “we must have battleships” mentality common in the first half of the 20th century, which led people to keep building them even after they became strategically pointless.
Edit: more extreme, because the Empire never bothered with light screening units for the capital ships, which none of the navies on earth thought was a good idea.
And I question why it got attached to Tarkin in new references.
My read on the Tarkin Doctrine was 'fear must play as big a role as force, in the military' leading to intimidating vehicles like the AT-AT, and up close encounters with Star Destroyers.
In Awakening of The Rebellion, I used like, 20 squadrons of X-wings, to effectively shred the gas giants with tibanna refineries, and the different intersections, inflicting damage and causing logistical problems. It was fun.
In EAW the lancer is the backbone of my imperial fleet...eat star destroyer has at least 3 in an escort fleet...
Dreadnaught, Lancers and Carracks can make an incredible escort fleet if you ignore the Venator
I think I prefer the Tartan-Class cruiser over the Lancer just because it had the literary exact same specs but could operate with a much smaller crew due to it's advanced computer systems (and wasn't as ugly as a Lancer). But sadly that ship is also very expensive so it might not be the best choice for a large scale production.
I think the Lancer is better looking. The Tartan has stronger shields, likely, but has to drain them for rapid fire.
Converting the stats from Empire At War with X-Wing Alliance, we get:
753 shield and 471 hull for the Tartan
576 shield and 304 hull for the Lancer (I used the VSD stats as a benchline between both games)
I love how you give us the option to see what video we want. Very cool!
Or the Raider-class corvette (like the Corvus) - which has the added advantage of not looking like a flying adult toy. The raider is flexible without losing effectiveness in either role by using missile weapons; being able to pack antifighter cluster missiles or antiship assault concussion missiles, or even special stuff like ion pulse missiles, which is why the special forces liked it.
Nice work Eck loved the video and I agree with you on Jacen loved seeing him slowly fall and also it being confirmed in fate of the Jedi that his actions did change the future so he was actually at peace
been using lancers since it came out in empire at war remake, they do amazing work.
I find them to be quite useless against fighters and bombers late game. How many do you need to use for them to be effective?
@@portman8909 in my fleets, I have about 6 to 8 in my fleet composition.
I imagine a Rebel cell could operate pretty well using a captured Lancer with the hangar bay modified to hold a few X-wings or A-wings instead of two Lambda shuttles. The Lancer could haul the fighters to some empty patch of space outside a system and deploy them. Then the fighters make a quick lightspeed jump into the system, hit the target hard and fast, then jump back to the Lancer. Then they dock in a hurry and the Lancer jumps off to some other system. In a pinch, the Lancer could jump in and bail the fighters out of a sticky situation, using its speed and guns to fend off TIEs and hopefully evade any large capital ships long enough for the Rebels to dock any disabled fighters and jump out of system again.
Reminds me of the "Tartan Patrol Cruiser" the imperial equivalent from EAW
20 laser canons excellent interception speed.
Some 230 meters long, dont quote me on that lol.
I agree completely. And the legacy of the force book series was AMAZING
I always flank my ISD's with Lancers when I play Star Wars Rebellion, works every time
Nope for me. Got tie defender and before that huge numbers of fighters.
@@paulrasmussen8953 Sure overwhelming numbers gets results but unless you have a Kuat sized shipyard you will be replacing a fleets fighter losses for months on end
@@CommissarTommy22 in rebellion I did. Some planets solely ship yards.
@@paulrasmussen8953 That feeling when ISD build times are reduced to mere weeks is something special
@@CommissarTommy22 or feilding a fleet of 8 ssds, an interditor, a death star and tie defenders
Lancer: * Rebel fighters ultimate counter *
Nebulon B frigate: "Now this looks like a job to me"
I remember learning about this ship. It really could have helped the empire turn the war around. Good video 😊👍
Lancers were the solution to winning Star Wars Rebellion as the Empire :D
Oh I remember reading Rogue Squadron and never saw how Lancer class frigates actually looked like! Sadly, the school library didn't have the second book so I only read the first despite there is a third one.
And Corran Horn is cool. It's also nice to read a compilation of short stories and noticing ''hey, that's the guy from Rogue Squadron!''. Or was it the other way around i forgot
The A-Wing taking out the bridge was only the final straw that downed the Executor. The novelization makes it clear that - due to having taken heavy fire from rebel cruisers - she was already in serious trouble listing and on fire from heavy attacks to her aft section that had penetrated her shields and ripped deep, burning holes in her hull.
The Tarkin Doctrine: Asinine Stupidity at its most Blistering since 19BBY
I never got that he actually controlled ALL military policy, especially over fighter deployment?
The Tarkin Doctrine: Trying to rationalize in our movies and books how we have a ragtag group of people with limited resources but over powered small ships outshine the military might of a Galactic Empire so the good guys can win.
Just wait until that moment when your playing thrawn's revenge and your ISD'S get trashed by b-wings because your lancers are too fucking slow to keep up.
Gonna wish you used those damn tartans.
Did the Rebellion ever use Imperial warships and starfighters in combat, like deploying a star destroyer in battle? #ASKECK
The nebulon b was an imperial warship but was more often used by the rebellion
As far as I know they did at the end of the war an the new republic in cannon even had executor class super star destroyers
Yes, if I remember correctly, they used a hijacked star destroyer rigged with explosives and rammed it into another star destroyer.
Carracks, Dreadnaughts (Rendili cruiser) and some Strike cruisers, all fell into Rebel hands too. The New Republic got hold of multiple ISDs and VSDs later, in Legends.
@@Zen-sx5io no, I mean like, powered up cannons, shields, a full crew, etc. and sending it into battle as part of the rebel fleet
Having fought Lancers they are flipping terrifying when used right and supported.
Tartan cruiser: Who are you?
Lancer frigate: I'm you, but better.
The tarkin doctrine is like trying to take out a series of anthills with a sledgehammer
Thrawn: "Give me Lancer Frigates, Raider Corvettes and Tie Defenders, and I will defeat the rebellion!"
Tarkin: "Mmmm....naaahhh! We'll just put everything we got into this big honking Death Star with a critical weakness, and just scare the Galaxy into submission! That'll do it!"
Thrawn: "Ummm..."
True! The Lancer never gets enough love. They are deadly in X-Wing Alliance... I think if there were more small Imperial task forces with Lancer and Neb-Bs mixed in the rebel scum wouldn’t have a chance... Rigid doctrine will get ya
If you've ever played Empire at War and done the rebel campaign, you build fighters, almost nothing but fighters and capital ships that spawn fighters. B-Wings kill Imp 2's
I gotta agree on that end credit question, i remember reading that book series and it is by far my favorite star wars legacy story arc... that I've read... better than that time with the killiks at least, which is the only other major legacy arc I've read. I like the killik arc too, i just like Jacen Solo'd fall to the dark side more.
Lancer class frigate: The cure for 'Trench Run Disease', a common ailment of senior Imperial officers.
Empire : “We will crush the rebellions!”
Also Empire : We built ships that’s not designed for war, and we armoured our troops that’s not designed for war but air conditioning inside for the comfort.
While I agree 100% in your assessment that the empire’s lack of proper screening vessels, decent starfighters and over reliance on super weapons played a key role in the empire’s defeat, I actually have an alternative that could work either independently or in full tandem with the screening strategy that you mentioned.
Basically it involves a partial switch from lasers to missiles. The Victory I for example had multiple concussion missile batteries making it a serious threat to rebel star fighters while still retaining sufficient turbolasers to deal with most enemy vessels. Add to that a advance sensor nodes, jammers and a proper targeting and tracking computer that could control and coordinate the fire not just from the missiles but even from the point defenses and you have something like the real life aegis system used by the USN.
I don’t think that adopting a strategy like this would be particularly difficult, expensive or even controversial for the empire since its only a partial refit and more importantly it doesn’t violate the Tarkin Doctrine, in the end the Star Destroyer still lies as the pillar of imperial naval power only now its better suited to deal with enemy fighters.
Eckhart: cancel Palpatine's battle moons
Palpatine: no... no no no....