THE TRUTH ABOUT "SEXISM IN ROCK"..
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- What is the truth about "women in rock and metal"? Some of what I talk about:
* Why artists like Hayley Williams, Gwen Stefani, Olivia Rodrigo are called industry plants
* Why labeling bands as "female fronted" isn't helpful
* The misogynist lyrics of metal bands like Cannibal Corpse
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0:00 Intro
1:15 The double standard, Hayley Williams & Gwen Stefani
7:45 Tokenism & "female fronted"
9:45 Misogynist lyrics & imagery - Розваги
Join my Discord: discord.gg/dpKTrW9Q4R
All those hardasses have to hush when they hear Heart,girlschool,lita ford,joan jett,etc. They aren't exactly new or core but they were badass enough to compete and destroy the entirely male dominated rock of their times and even now they beat the new stuff in my book.
I agree with everything in this video except for the Cardi b vs tim comment, they both did horrible things (granted I had never heard of tim before this) and Cardi b should go to jail or at least be canceled for what she did. You can’t just say what she did was ok because the people who it happened too were “losers”
Other then that I thought it was a great video and you made a lot of good points
@@leek6927 exactly
There was a time I saw a girl in town, use to hang in town with all the alt kids ATM, and she was wearing a crimson ghost shirt. Now I had never seen her before and she was cute! So I made conversation and asked an innocent "what's your favourite misfits song" and she said " those Metallica covers thou do are great especially Die Die Die My Darling"
At that point I politely ended the conversation and walked the fuck away x'D
Oh you like Nirvana? Name 10 gurus who reached enlightenment.
Marishka Hargetey, the guy from Last Airbender, that guy Mike Myers played...
Master Roshi
Mr. Clean
Christopher Wistopher
Davies504
“The fans are girls who think having a piercing is a substitute for a personality”
-a dude whose only personality is saying shit like that on the internet
Like ppl with tattoos have shit for a personality.
hoes mad
So true!
Yeah, pretty much
Bang on lad!
I remember in an interview Courtney (spiritbox) did she said that when she started in bands she used to hold her chest with her hands as she sang and a lot of dudes thought she did so as a way to growl/scream deeper (as if she wouldn’t be able to without doing so which is false) but she later revealed that she did so because when she used to perform in close knit concerts dudes would constantly try to grab her breast without her consent while she sang so she held her chest to protect herself.
That's horrible :(
@@nikkimor5135 I know :(
That's why I don't crowd surf. Saw too many women get their shirts ripped off.
Fuck... ;(
Wtf, that honestly pisses me off that people will try to do gross shit like that
That point about hating teenage girls is SOOO TRUE. Even though Elvis, The Beatles, and all the Hair Metal bands had a ton of female fans. You think Def Leppard or Motley Crue wanted *less* women in the audience?
Also, maybe critics hate teen girls because they have more power over what's cool than some hipster with a website.
"She's pretty good for a girl? She's better than you mate!" ~Lemmy Kilmister.
Lemmy had a lot of wisdom
Lemmy is the truth
When has he said that?
@@eduardoGentile720 about kelly johnson of schoolgirl. Quick google led to the book, overkill: the untold story of motörhead.
I know that doesn’t answer your question of when. But it is a start if you are interested.
Lemmy is god
Can we also stop comparing every single female fronted band to Paramore?
Factsss!
I accidentally upvoted twice
Yes!
yup
And Evanescence too.
I really appreciated this video and for calling out the misogyny. I don’t go to metal/punk gigs on my own anymore because a lot of the time i go, i get sexually assaulted whether it’s someone grabbing my ass or my chest or sometimes worst...which sucks because i love local punk bands in my East LA area but it’s scary when you’re alone at night surrounded by a crowd of aggressive, sometimes drunk/high, men
If I didn't have a huge ass husband I wouldn't feel safe at shows realistically.
Same honestly. I don't really Like going anymore after being assaulted so many times
@GO YO of course not! I'm just stating that I personally wouldn't feel safe going without my husband :)
@GO YO regardless of gender anyone can feel unsafe in any space. I just feel more comfortable with my husband as he makes me feel safe. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. I'm sure I make him feel safe in some situations as well as we have each others backs no matter what :)
I guess I got lucky. I have been going alone to local shows since I was 18. My mom who also like rock used to bring me when I was a minor and the guys have always been nice to us
I saw Joan Jett a few years ago, and there was some guy behind me on the lawn that spent the whole show whining about how Joan Jett "just doesn't know a damn thing about rock." Like she's the original rocker chick, but okay bud
lol if she didn't know a damn thing about rock, it almost makes you wonder why he's at her rock show and not vice versa... jeeze
Joan Jett saw a glass ceiling for women in rock, and she brought a bigger rock to break it.
I hope you socked that turd. Joan is royalty! Long live the Queen of Rock!
He didn't know who she was and was at her concert...where there would be a big deal made about her. Yeah, I doubt this story.
@@egglordsasuke8532
She was probably opening for another act.
“So you like Slipknot? Then tie one.”
Dude with blood running down his face wearing Scout shorts: I GOT THIS!
Clove hitches and figure eights for the win.
😂😂😂😂
I LOL'd pretty hard at this one
You like Linkin Park? Well then park a Lincoln... Oh you like Limp Bizkit... then show your Viagra script
Scene guys: Female fans are annoying as shit!
Also scene guys: Dude, that concert was a sausage fest!
Self-awareness: -100
Underrated comment
They don't believe girls can have the same interests as they do, but they still want hot girls to be present at the concert and take their bras off.
@Robert B. Yeah it had to be balanced both guys and girls, and not where it was all guys only as a sausage fest or an all girls only as a fish fest.
Scene guys: *takes underage fan to hotel*
@@ML-tr1hz women are viewed as accessories and sex dolls to most men. Not people.
DUDE, THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!
I really appreciate seeing/hearing a guy talk about this, maybe people will pay more attention, since when females complain about it we're being "too dramatic" or "overly emotional" or just simply "on our period."
As a "female" death metal guitarist, I feel everything you discussed SUPER hard. I've always tried to present just as a "musician" or a "guitarist" and I've talked about it many times but I still get "you're good for a girl" or "wow! a woman playing death metal!" or comments about my appearance or hate comments about my gender and how people only watch me or like me BECAUSE I'm female. I've had people say to me "you're the best female guitarist I know" but I'm the ONLY "female" guitarist they know!!! I just want to be seen as a musician, I fkn hate this gender-exclusion shit. My husband is also a guitarist and NO ONE, EVER has said, "what a good MALE guitarist" or anything like that, only ever "what an amazing guitarist." Why can't I be a part of the bigger picture?? Seen along side my "male" peers instead of just the smaller pool of "females?"
Or how about the fkn instagram guitar pages that share videos; each day is usually separated to a genre, like "metal monday" for example, but ONLY on "woman crush wednesday" will you see the videos of female guitarists, of ANY genre!!! So now we have a day of metal, blues, jazz, ambient, etc all clumped together because for some reason the gender is more important than the music???? Why can't we be seen or shared on the other days with the actual genre we play!?!?! "Woman crush wednesday" also irks me so much cause it also seems like what matters is how hot we are, or that us playing an instrument is something to be sexualized 🤢🤮
I have turned down opportunities with my band because they were about celebrating the fact there's a female in the band. I have never promoted myself that way and I don't want to be seen that way so I won't play shows or accept opportunities that are only because of my gender. I understand it's coming from a good place but I don't want to be a part of that. I don't care what my physiology is I just wanna be a good musician and seen as one without my gender coming into any part of the equation!!
I've received a lot of hate comments on my channel for being "female," but one of the worst ones I ever got was "your playing could be tighter, so could your p*$$y." Cool. Thanks dude.
I'd love to see REAL equality in rock/metal/music in general but I'm so pessimistic/bitter from this shit I'm doubtful it'll happen. At least not in my lifetime lol...
Love you and Dean. You're a couples inspiration to me and my husband 🖤 Sorry to hear people are so shitty to you (but can't say I'm surprised)
I'll say this....as a male musician myself, and guitar/piano player, nothing pisses me off more then when I see a video called "Top 10 best female guitar players in rock" or metal or alternative, etc. etc.
Its like they're saying the female brain couldn't possibly comprehend the vast technical ability it takes to master an instrument like a MAN can? Holy shit....it's the 21st century, but when it comes to music, a lot of guys are still stuck in the 1700's. I've literally argued with these dumb fuck, incel attitudes in comment sections. My daughter has recently started picking up guitar..she's a quick learner and has started figuring out chord structures WAY faster than I ever did at her age.
My wife played drums in a band when she was in University back in the early 90's...she'd come in with her bandmates and everyone thought she was just a "girlfriend of one of the male members"...she'd hear shit like.."you're a pretty good drummer.........for a girl" And also heard a lot of "is your pussy as tight as your rhythm ?" type jokes...sadly, from what I read in your comment, I see not much has changed. And for that, I'm sorry. I just hope that someday, female musicians will be treated equally...
I'm not trying to be a White Knight or anything, I've just seen it first hand myself, and since my own kid is now following in her folks footsteps, musically. I just don't want her to have to go through it as well....but, unfortunately she prob will.
I’m not going for “not all men”, but you’d be hard pressed to find male music fans that aren’t on your side, or to prove that the entire music scene is like this.
@@diamondminer5459 Did I say the "entire" music scene is like this?? The sheer fact Finn made a video on it proves that it isn't 100% sexist. I shared my perspective, my experiences and certainly these negative things aren't 100% of my experience in the metal scene, but they still affect me very deeply. It's frustrating because it's something my male peers don't have to deal with and when we try to talk about it we get people downplaying it, accusing us of exaggerating/lying and just in general not recognizing the pain or difficulty it causes us. Just because it isn't 100% of the picture doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
Preach! I hate walking into a venue trying to book a gig and the first reaction I get is "Aw she plays guitar that's cute!" It is so degrading.
As I get older of the funniest things about discussions of Gwen Stefani’s appearance is that back in 2000 talking heads on MTV and VH1 started talking about how ageless she was like it was some miracle that a 31 year old’s body wasn’t falling apart
It’s because once you’re 25 you’re over the hill, so nobody actually knows what a 32 or 45 or 53 year old woman looks like because nobody is paying attention to them.
Nailed it.
Rock/metal scene: Alienates half of the population.
Rock/metal scene: WhY iSn'T rOcK/mEtAl MoRe PoPuLaR?!?!
Eh. thats different crowd. Half are gatekeepers who only ackonwledge Death, Thrash and Black Metal as genre music exists. half are rock/metal fans who also listen to other music
I've never actually known a woman who felt alienated by rock or metal, all the ones I know listen to it casually, never heard of anyone giving them shit for it. But even women in these comments talking about having experienced this still listen to the music. Also never heard a metal fan wondering why it's not more popular, we never cared about popularity to begin with. Lots of straw in your comment.
Edit: Oh yeah, also, gonna pretend there's no sexism in rap huh? Not gonna address that?
So why is rap so popular with females and lgbtq then? It’s some of the most sexist, homophobic, misogynistic out there. Your point holds no weight. Also this videos based off of assumptions and skewed information.
@@RoguSpanish is this a defense for metal? No one is attacking metal; they still listen to metal because they fucking love metal. Metal is not the problem; it's the people, and I'm afraid that in no way does your anecdotal ignorance disprove it.
@@Chasecka you realize two things can be true at once, right? Put down the copium.
big fan of you finn! not gonna lie..i stopped wearing band shirts in my youtube videos (not related to music) bc i always get weird comments asking me to name 3 albums or songs 🥴
I'm sorry you've experienced that. That's messed up. We (male rock fans) need to be better, hands down.
Like you couldn't just Google it
@@wtfRyantater like SHE couldn't just google it? She's not here to prove herself to people who already need to stfu.
@@wtfRyantater it's the principal of the situation. No one is going up to people that wear video game shirts and asking "name the last three games they made on which consoles". If you think a shirt looks cool because of the art work, wear it. Simple as that.
@@randa3.078 I'm just saying that it's an even more stupid question to pose to someone... ON THE INTERNET. Relax bud.
WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT 'THE PRETTY RECKLESS' or 'IN THIS MOMENT' Taylor Momsen is the only female fronted band to have 7 songs from her new album on the rock charts for months - and Maria brink has a killer voice and she puts so much visual art work into her music, and performing live she recreates her music videos on stage!
I agree with almost everything you are saying. However, I like the "female-fronted" label, it helps me discover more bands with female vocals which I like to listen to more than male vocals in general.😅
Fair point, I want to support more women playing in Metal bands. The “female-fronted” label is honestly kinda handy in doing so. 🤷🏻♀️
Agreed
Same here.
Totally agree. As a woman, I am absolutely more likely to check a band out if I see or read that a woman is in it, especially if she’s fronting it.
I agree too, those list of "10 Metal bands with women" or things like this help me find new bands that are not the typical dudes screaming
From the 10% of us women who follow, I love that you touched on this!
Absolutely
It seems weird that there are so few of us
Same
Meee, woman here who likes rock
Liking this channel more and more
Dudes saying "I'm not sexist, I listen to Spiritbox" are the equivalent of people saying "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".
BTW, I saw a mom at my kids baseball game wearing a "Darkest Hour" shirt and I thought it was bad ass. With that being said, had the kids dad been wearing the shirt, I would have thought it equally bad ass. I just like connecting with people that are into the same shit I am.
no way someone said that lmfaooooo
That opening line literally made me LOL
😆😁😂😂😂
is that like saying "i'm not woke, i have guns and have cop mates?" lmfao
Exactly, so you can have a black friend or a girl friend who is into the same thing and that’s what matters most. I care more about said tee shirt than the skin color or gender.
Thank you for making this video. As a teenage girl who enjoys rock and metal music, I've had some *bad* experiences at concerts; I always have to be with a male friend to feel safe. Also, I stopped wearing band t-shirts in public because of all of the people (that don't even know me) telling me that I am a fake fan 😐 Aaand I've been playing drums for a year now and the amount of times I've been told that it's not an instrument made for girls is terrible.
I promise it will get better over time. They think they can influence you because you are young. Maybe they wanted to play in a band themselves but didn't have an instrument or didn't practise.
Being made to think we're inferior as a woman takes a lifetime to fix. I personally still think I have to conform to what men would think of me, and I've downplayed myself a long time for that. "Slutty = less respect". "Covering up = smart". I was raised on metal, nu-metal, and old-school hip hop but I can't help but think every band I listen to is "cheesy" or "corny" or not the real stuff. "It's mainstream and overplayed", just because there's a female audience for it. Moreover, if you're unattractive, female, overweight, and listen to metal then you're a stereotype for the genre and a total lolcow.
We deserve respect like anybody else.
I’ve been all over the weight spectrum. And while women had never treated me any differently for it, *MEN* do.
At rock concerts, I began dressing all _normie_ when I began to gain weight so I would be left alone. It worked to some extent.
Then, I lost weight in the past two and a half years. With that, I also stopped listening to rock music on the regular. However, I still go to concerts because I have not stopped enjoying live music and I’ve begun to play music once more (I used to play punk/pop in Puerto Rico as a teen).
As a female metal drummer, I've experienced all of this personally - good and bad, and from both men and women - and I'm really stoked to hear you call it out and address it.
Well as a metal I sorry you been mistreated by the other "fans" or Fake Ass Narcissists with Sticks up their butts. If you don't like someone's music and they're not hurting anyone leave them alone I say. I checked you channel and your bands channel. It's good music so keep it up. :)
Awesome what’s the name of the band you’re in, if they’re on Spotify I’ll check em out!🤘
@@tobyklase8179 Thanks Toby! Yeah, most people are awesome and I try to remember that when someone says or does something stupid, haha. I appreciate the support!
@@dragonqueen6589 Cool! I play with Conquer Divide, Dead Asylum, and The Anti-Queens. All on Spotify, all different styles :)
@@slandadrums Conquer divide sounds amazing!!!! Man your vocalist has got a great range, that almost death-growl is bad-ass!
“Girls are only in the scene to get at guys/pretend to be alternative for attention from them in the scene” types from a gay man that’s in the scenes’ perspective is funny to me because I’m confident that if I and other gay men don’t want an unkempt gatekeeping incel-like dude, chances are that women don’t either and aren’t in the scene for them lmao
Gay metal dork here. 100% correct.
@@ridleysomeliana-lauer5814 "Gay metal dork" would be a great type of metal
@@brunoaugusto5 technically it is considering who’s in my band 😂
Transfem metalhead here and *absofuckinglutely.*
Thanks for this video. It’s been tough as a female musician. I know I’m tired of having to just “suck it up” when dealing with douchbags. Double standards are fucking weird as you pointed out.
I’m self taught and have been playing guitar since I was 9. Even in my family I was kind of laughed at. They said things like “what, do you think you’re gonna be famous or something?!” No asshole, I just love music and wanna play my guitar loud lol.
25 years later I’m still playing.
I didn't know people doubting aspiring musicians was specific to women.
@@egglordsasuke8532 my apologies?
@@egglordsasuke8532 Where did she say that at?
As a woman who loves rock music and wants to perform rock music in the future, thank you for this video.
The way I’ve been treated wearing a shirt from a band I like, like I must be interrogated to make sure I listen to them, or people look at me and assume I don’t, is ridiculous. I wore a Ramones tank bodysuit with black cargo pants and white docs to a Green Day concert and the guy next to me actually had the gall to tell me I shouldn’t wear merch from a band I don’t listen to. I’m literally at A GREEN DAY CONCERT, and this man is just full on assuming I don’t listen to a band that clearly set the original standard for Green Day’s sound.
It sucks how hard women have to fight to be taken seriously in rock music. Women who are considered gold standard now, such as Debbie Harry, the Wilson sisters, Joan Jett, amy lee, and Hayley Williams were treated like shit for sooo long, it look literally decades for them to attain the respect they deserve.
A lot of UA-camrs wouldn't have made this video. It needs to be said. Respect
100%
Welcome to the progressive (in a political sense) side of youtube, we have cookies
@@eduardoGentile720 Are the cookies oatmeal
Stunning and brave
Because it's a ridiculous video, almost all of his points he's just reaching at things just to call it sexist and misogynistic.
My girlfriend is a diehard prog and thrash metal fan. Not long after we started dating, I took her to an underground crossover festival, to see a band that I knew she loved (Surra, from Brazil). She told me she had gone to some major shows before, but never an underground event like that, because she was scared. I'm a punk and hardcore kid, and to me, that was just mind boggling. From my perspective, I've never felt afraid of unwelcome. The rock community (in general) needs to take a good hard look inside and realize that it has not been inclusive.
Which is ironic, since rock music came from rebellious social outcasts to begin with.
I've always felt unwelcome in hardcore. Well, maybe not unwelcome, because I still went to shows. But I never made any friends at shows. Maybe unaccepted is the better word? Either way, its why I'm happy to crowd kill. There's no such thing as unity in hardcore.
Surra is amazing, Check them out! De Santos pro mundo huashuas
Nice to here there's another girl like me who likes prog metal! I always feel like the only one. But it does mean there's no line in the women's restroom at prog shows...
@@danieltelesost geeenti só conheci agora por causa desses comentários aqui mds kkk mto bomm
I know you were worried about the backlash on this video, but let’s be honest here.
The world is getting more and more progressive every day and I hardly consider this an edgy stance on the topic. It just makes you a decent human being with compassion for how others are treated. I’d say if anything you might lose some misogynistic subscribers. I think that’s a good thing 👍🏻
It's only progressed far enough that more people are speaking on it. Unfortunately, it hasn't progressed so far that there's a big enough acceptance of it. Like, way WAY too many people will *still* fly into an incel rage when misogyny is brought up. More than you think. So yeah, I don't blame him for being concerned about large amounts of backlash; sadly we're not away from that, yet. Of course, that in no way means we should ever stop talking about it, regardless.
Yeah, anyone with a different opinion is an "incel". Anyone that doesn't have a one sided view on gender is an "incel". Maybe, some people don't agree with being generalized.
It's one thing to be respectful to people but it's another to pander to a certain sex for the sake of progression. I think it comes off misogynistic to act as their "cultural hero". I'm sure most can stand up for themselves in any situation where they feel disrespected and in my experience the biggest creeps out there are the ones simping the hardest.
You say “progressive” likes it actually progression, you must not see how shitty and horrible society has gotten fella…🤦🏼♂️
Progressive for most issues, but 50% of the population benefits from the other 50% being oppressed.
Men who claim to be feminists still objectify women and pressure them to adhere to unrealistic beauty standards.
Men still use women for emotional and domestic labour.
Equality either means men are held to unrealistic beauty standards, wages are regulated for industry, and promotions are based on performance and not “fit.”
Or women will not be held to ridiculous beauty standards and the average woman becomes less attractive (according to current standards). With fewer rigid standards we would all have better mental health, but women are currently only valued for appearance and/or what they do for men.
Are men okay with women not being objectified? And not being pressured to be thin and perfect?
Are men okay with women not doing the majority of domestic and emotional labour in a household or relationship?
How many men are okay with giving up their privilege ?
Any man who actively supports equality needs to stop objectifying women and letting/forcing women to do unpaid labour.
It doesn’t mean you can’t appreciate someone being attractive. But appreciate them respectfully, and don’t make comments about how women look, especially strangers. Don’t follow or like influencers or women for their looks.
It pressures other women, and especially young girls, to meet unrealistic standards, and to feel valued only for how they look.
Normalize women being people, not body parts or sex objects.
If you can’t or won’t, then you benefit from women being unequal and don’t want equality.
As someone who really enjoys a good death metal record from time to time, it genuinely makes my stomach turn that there as many death metal songs as their are about rape.
Cannibal Corpse - The Bleeding
Bunny girl slaps
@@leviathan3630 Sure does.
I agree. I have some issues with my past & sometimes I love the instrumentals of songs based on stuff like that, but the lyrics bother me a ton when I’m feeling down so those songs are kind of rendered useless as a form of escapism/emotional catharsis because it just makes me feel far worse.
Yes let's just make all death metal about unicorns and rainbows then... its DEATH METAL stop trying to Church it up with this bullshit, if I want to enjoy songs about mass murder, xenophobia, rape and destruction I will
Imagine going to Ozzfest, surrounded by the best metal acts in the world, then walking over to that stage with the girl band and harassing them.
Another thing with the Playboy “Top 10 women fronted bands” or whatever is that I feel like it helps creates this weird illusion that the woman and the band are two separate things. Like you can’t just have a band that happens to have a member that’s a woman? No, it’s a woman artist that’s working with a band.
It's kind of like people "she" was brought on to an already working band and just sing the songs that they wrote and is there only to look pretty. Often neglecting the fact that she is the one who primarily wrote the music people are enjoying. Big problem in music that needs to get fixed.
Plus Playboy was really terrible to women
Courtney Love is probably the most attacked women in rock. She indeed did GREAT albums and composed great songs. Before Kurt, she already composed Live Through This songs about pregnancy, feminism, abuse, etc, but everyone insists that it was Kurt that composed the songs. Same thing on Celebrity Skin, everyone wants to give credit only to Billy Corgan. People always try to put a man behind something amazing that a women can do. Not to mention the fact that people blame HER on a suicide of a depressive junkie, because, of course, the blame is always on women. Say what you want about Courtney but she's an incredible artist and influenced SO MANY women in rock.
Thank you! I’ve been a Courtney fan for over 20 years and she’s just awesome and I hate how unfairly she’s been treated.
I highly recommend the documentary "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey," it brings a great perspective from women in metal like Girlschool, Kittie, Arch Enemy etc. as well as Lemmy from Motorhead.
I love how that one guy complained that teenage girls 'don't look alt enough' while they probably also looked super basic themselves.
Also about looks, you also have to be pretty as a woman to have succes, while I feel that's a lot less needed when you're a guy. Like you need to wear make up, but not too much because that makes you girly and fake but also not too less because that makes you look ugly and manly. Sigh.
Or its some neckbeard with unbrushed hair in a crusty old thrash metal tee lol
Right. Meanwhile they get pissed when male artists are "too pretty" and don't take them seriously like Andy Biersack
@@erinmahoney1407 well you cant take that guy seriously cause he tries to be cringey a7x which is already cringey metallica and even metallica is cringe
A band has to have some gimmick to not blend in.
@@insanetaco98 breathing is cringe
If this offends you well you might just be the people he’s talking about.
everyone i dont like is an incel.....bravo
“If you don’t agree you are bad” this is litterally the woke shit EVERYONE hates. People can disagree and not be pieces of shit.
@@lukejezza3088 bOyCoTt ChInA
Seriously, the fact that basic common sense and courtesy is couched in "contentious topic" language proves the need for video call-outs like this. Absolutely zero of what Finn said should be controversial in the slightest.
@@stefthepef it’s not “controversial” it’s just bs man. Woman in metal are praised. There are a tone of female fronted bands that people simply simp for even if the band is trash.
I used to be so into metal and punk when I was younger to the point I kinda made it my personality, but growing up and realizing how unwanted and mistreated I was in those spaces made me drift away from the scene. There was always a guy (usually way, way older than me) trying to test my knowledge or give me lessons or patronizing me about the type of music I was listening and what I should get into instead. It was exhausting. I have totally stopped wearing band merch. I don't give a fuck about these type of things anymore and they won't ruin my day now, but I won't lie in saying that was the reason I drifted away from rock and got into other generes that felt "safer". Luckily the introduction of girl bands in the scene (specially in pop punk after the whole everyone-here-is-a-sexual-predator era) is making me interested in the genere again.
Im sorry that happened, I don’t like people like that cause I think every single human being is welcome to the rock/punk/metal communities.
I got even more mad respect for you after this video. I love when people don't just want us treated better just because we are female, but because we are humans. I have to deal with stuff from being a big metal fan as well in my choice of career. I am a mechanic. An aircraft mechanic to be more specific. As a women we get a lot of crap from some men for choosing this career. "Oh you are going to dirty" "You'll break a nail." and other stupid shit. I love getting covered in grease and oil and smelling like jet fuel. I hope more people do like you have and stand up not to put us on a pedestool like many feminist so thinking that it help, but to have us actually treat with equal respect that would give a male in the industry.
I’ve been a musician in the metal and rock world for 20+ years-all of this is true. I’ve been viewed and judged through a different lens than my male peers.
I’ve was told by a record label to be less aggressive on stage so I don’t upstage and emasculate my male bandmates. This is basically verbatim: “you need to be more of a ornament like the bassist from smashing pumpkins, you’re better than your bandmates and it’s not sellable, men don’t want to see women doing something better than them.”
I’ve been judged countless times on my looks, both positive and negative. No ones judging the fat bearded metal dude who hasn’t showered in 2 weeks.
When my bandmates mention they have a female in the band the first reply is always “is she hot”, not is she amazing at her instrument. How weird would it be to reverse that situation? This dude just joined my band, oh he is hot?
Told by a Grammy award winning producer to act more like Avril L. (Yes, I just dated myself but just shows this has been an issue since forever.)
I can’t count the amount of times I’ve been told to leave the club after loading gear because doors haven’t opened yet and girlfriends aren’t allowed inside until doors. In some instances, my male bandmates have literally had to tell the bouncers because they didn’t believe me.
Even getting into my first serious band with men was a challenge, some members wanted me to join and others didn’t since it would disrupt the band image.
Thanks for the vid and acknowledgment. Hopefully the more people speak up, the less this bullshit will happen.
OMFG the thing about loading gear and getting told to leave is SO real!! Or when you're carrying your shit to the van and someone outside says "wow you're a really nice girlfriend carrying your boyfriend's gear for him." Seriously FML lol
I’m a woman and I’ve been listening to rock music since I was very young because of my mother. And I remember that around 12 years old I’ve discovered metal music and I wanted to listen to more metal bands so I joined a forum and asked for suggestions. The amount of hate that I received was unbelievable. I still can’t comprehend how some grown ass adults could bully a child that hard just for asking “what bands should I listen to?” I was not the only one asking for suggestions and I wasn’t the only 12 yo asking for suggestions, but I was the only 12 yo girl that asked for suggestions. That incident made me hate myself for being a female for a while and I restricted myself from enjoying “girly things” so I could feel accepted by the metal community. But I am 22 now and I’ve learned to like myself for who I am. Luckily enough it was the good side of the metal/rock community that helped me with that.
This. They hate us when we're into girly stuff and when we're into "boy" stuff we're faking it and there is just no way to win. We just gotta do whatever the hell we want and enjoy the things we like because no matter what it is, they'll be judging.
To be honest I'm happy not be a big fan of rock music or metal, you know the typical male supremacy genres 😂 My friend who supposedly is a feminist and even did a master's degree in Gender Studies showed me what she listened to (typical rock) and it was a penis show 😂 I didn't even want to point out that she didn't listen to women bc I know she would be embarrassed. It has been years since I prioritise women, I listen mostly to electronic stuff but anyway I like them better, I'm not going to find out disgusting stuff news from them. With male musicians every week is a game of who is an abuser now. Recently Marilyn Manson was another disappointment. Well, I was not surprised and that's the thing. I'm not collaborating with the Patriarchy, I'm putting girls (so also me) first as much as I can 🥰🥰🥰
@@laclochard yes let's believe Evan about Marilyn Manson when she's clearly best friends with johnny depp's ex wife who just accused johnny of the same shit and was proven to be false.
if its any consolation it's not like guys are immune to the issues either. i'm not trying to pretend its *as bad* by a long shot. just saying, we also get some shit, anybody should be able to empathise or relate. often those that cause most of the issues are the ones that are more repressed, the internet is a really bad place for kids, even more so than in person places.
@@A.i.Riverz I don't care about her and don't pretend you care about anything more than derailing the conversation ☺️ I care about the several women who spoke out about Manson and no one is even surprised. And he is not an exception, he is another man on the list of horrors we have to experience every day. But you already know that. I'm in Spain and I can smell your incel stink from here. Thanks for commenting and illustrating why we as women should prioritise women in every field and in every sense, men are not going to do it for us, we have to take care of each other 🌸
Thank you so, so much for this. I love how it was covered in a non-woke way. The different standards have haunted me for quite some time as a female vocalist and musician attempting to be successful in metal and rock. I so appreciate you not making this political and instead basing it on your observations within the community and experiences with other people's behavior. That makes it so much more palatable for people who would otherwise deny the experiences that I and other women have lived.
I was kicked out of a band that I STARTED because we had gotten a new drummer that convinced the other guys that they would never be taken seriously with a female vocalist. 🙄 but this was years ago when I was a teen.
Also Olivia Rodrigo isn't an "industry plant" if she's open about her Disney origins - an industry plant is something like the Tramp Stamps that is manufactured to seem grassroots/authentic when it isn't. Olivia has never claimed to be grassroots/self-made so she isn't an industry plant, people have forgotten what that term means.
She 100% is an industry plant. As is eilish.
@@Danielfucks69 Did you even read my comment?
@@Danielfucks69 did you watch the video?
I don't really care about "industry plants"
It's a silly thing
@@Happycoreftw Yeah I agree dude, at the end of the day all that matters is if the music is good or not
I think it’s good that you’re willing to address this problem. One of the most frustrating moments that made me really realize that this was a problem was when I saw this small band called “Close to Closure” who was opening on the All Stars tour in 2014. They had a female drummer and as soon as people saw her up there, a bunch of dudes started shouting at her to take her shirt off throughout their whole set. I felt so bad for her because she was a good drummer and performer but was heckled sexually multiple times simply because she was a female. Like, come on guys
That's awful. Terrible fan behavior. It reminds me of the time (Not a fan by the way) when Courtney Love played at least one song of her set with Hole with her boobs out. I recall she said she was asked to by people in the audience. I hesitate to call them fans... She then asked if they were satisfied.
That happened when I went to a local wrestling show. So I yelled at the guy to show me his cock. He stopped after that.
How many virtue points do you get for that comment?
Yet I can list a lot of metal and rock bands with a female singer some of which a really big names.
Epica
Nightwish
Within Temptation
Amberian Dawn
Ad Infinitum
Eluveitie
Beyond the Black
Edenbridge
Visions of Atlantis
Seven Spires
Seven Kingdoms
Skarlett Roit
The Agonist
Mindmaze
Kobra and the Lotus
Delain
Stitched Up Heart
Suite Clarity
Kalidia
Aftertime
Amaranthe
Eva Under Fire
Tristania
Sirenia
Battle Beast
Diabulus in Musica
Walk in Darkness
Leaves Eyes
Unleash the Archers
Lacuna Coil
Butcher Babies
Starkill
I can keep going with this list.
Thank you for sharing the story. I am not sure if you are aware of that, but using female as a noun and referring to a woman as "a female" is pretty much incel speak as it used to dehumanise women.
No Doubt literally did a video about how the industry focused on her and the band fighting about it.
It’s honestly pretty crazy how deep rooted the sexism is, I showed my homegirl a few Spiritbox videos and she was like “are you sure she’s actually screaming and it’s not just for the video?” Like damn she couldn’t even believe that a woman could do it
Even women criticize other women for listening to Rock and Metal. It's not all men that make women not listen. There are many factors but we don't talk about them.
How is that sexism?
@@allenellsworth5799 The term for that is internalized misogyny. There are women who hold sexist ideals.
@@giselletorres4156 Women honestly just aren't really into it much like they aren't certain jobs and that is okay. For my dating life not so much I guess lol
@@allenellsworth5799 lmao you literally said “not all men”. You’re a walking stereotype.
Lately, people have been talking about the hate teenage girls get for doing anything. Girls have influenced the rise of many things in pop culture, but never got taken seriously until non-teenage girls participated in them.
Because most things teenage girls like are genuinely bad. Kpop for instance. musically awful, literally the only thing good about it is the marketing.
@@captainhands3558 Same can be said about things teenage boys like. Transformers for example, awful films, but very popular
@@captainhands3558 And, the misogyny.
@@hannescoetzee1040 I don't think transformers is all that popular, it's not like something people get excited about. Children maybe, but I think most teenage boys are a little past transformers
@@captainhands3558 millions of people get excited for transformers. Teenage boy's and girls love including women in their 50's get excited for it.
top 3 most annoying things that happened to me as a female fan:
1. "do you listen to xyz?" - no, i don't really like them. - "they're too heavy for you, right."
2. a guy offering to escort me to the back of the venue so i don't "hurt myself" in the pit (+ extra points for inappropiate touching)
3. the t-shirt-"name 3 songs"-thing - of course. honestly, i know what i'm wearing - try me.
Or being in the pit and guys thinking they can push up on you and grope you. Like we are only there for the pleasure!
the first one is more of a general douche bag in metal scenes. i'm a fat dude and got asked this sometimes. "do you like spirit box?" "nah, not mine" "too heavy for you, huh?" "i listen to other stuff, i just not a fan of screams that sound like me, 19, puking my guts out cuz drunk"
@Arthur Frayn - I'd suggest it the opposite. More of a "she chose to be there, so keep your opinion to yourself"
@Arthur Frayn IMO the video is mostly him sharing his observations of the rock scene. Some (including myself) may say that’s the appeal of his channel 🤷🏼♀️
4. Going to a concert and people assuming you're just their because your boyfriend likes the band
Thank you so much for creating and sharing this video! I haven't been wearing a lot of band merch because I always feel like I'm not enough of a fan to 'deserve' to wear the merch. Because I've heard many experiences from other women about having to 'pass the test' on how well they know the artist, everytime I DO wear band merch I look up some band facts before I go outside. Also, when I'm at concerts I really feel people/men staring at me for not looking edgy/alternative enough.
Loved this video so much. thank you!!! I remember when I was younger I used to avoid pictures of bands so I could be sure that I liked their music and not their looks, because people made me believe that was why I liked bands. Which is fucking stupid. This video really spoke to me and I am very happy you made it. 50% percent of my shirt are band shirt, that I never wear outside because people suck
I play bass in a “female fronted band” … god I hate that label… anyway, her vocal style is rather melodic and she has a somewhat Goth look. One thing that happens a lot to us is promoters assume our music style and place a bunch of bands with female vocals together and we, a djenty band, end up playing with 4 symphonic metal bands just because of the way she looks.
as annoying as that can be, varied genre shows are way more fun than seeing the same band 6 times in a row.
I mean, I like mixed bill shows if that’s the intention. However I’ve been to local shows in Dallas that’ll have emo, pop punk, indie and metal bands on one show and it’s clearly because they’re all female fronted bands and that just comes off as overly pandering.
I do think it's an important label, though. There's very little sonic variety in rock and metal and having a vocalist be make it female is basically like having a different instrument be a centerpiece of your music. Some people just like one more than the other.
@@riffsnoleads I don’t have anything against mixed shows if that is the intention, the problem is when we are the only band outside the intended genre for the sole reason we have a female vocalist with that look
@@bennymountain1 you do have a point and I’ll go even further to say that male and female growlers do not sound the same. But on the other hand, a female growler sounds much similar to a male one than to a clean female vocalist and yet I see promoters batching together all females regardless of vocal style.
At the same time, you don’t have labels like that for other characteristics of the band like the amount of guitar players, if they use backing tracks or key players…
You’ve always given me conservative or libertarian vibes but you aren’t afraid to call out BS like racism or misogyny when you see it. You live by your own rules and don’t subscribe to what it feels like the left or right demand of the people on their side of the aisle. And that’s real AF. I rock with that style of living and I think a lot of people could benefit from being that way. Too many people on the right and the left hold themselves back so they don’t get cancelled for having their own values.
Conservative doesn’t mean you endorse racism or sexism
@Arthur Frayn I’ve seen leftists cancel other leftists and I’ve seen people on the right do the same but for different reasons. There’s a lot of expectation from both sides for people to subscribe to certain specific beliefs.
Why does everybody think conservative or libertarian endorse racism or sexism
@@retronerds6884 I think it usually coinsides with the number of active brain cells. lol
@@devinphares2369 so people think conservative and libertarians are low iq that might be the biggest load of crap I've heard 🤣🤦♂️
You didn't offend me. There's not enough women in punk and metal. I welcome it!!!
2nd law
@@MegaDustygirl You a big Muse fan?
@@derekperry261 absolutely! You?
I wear a lot of metal shirts to gigs, the gym and just out and about and I'm never ever approached by strange men about it. Luckily for me most of the bands are reasonably obscure or the logos are illegible, I'd imagine I would be harrassed if I wore more recognisable bands on a regular basis.
However, I downloaded tinder a few weeks ago and I have a photo up of myself in a Power Trip shirt and I'm put on a pedestal all the damn time for that. I've also noticed that some guys lose interest very quickly if I seem to know more about their preferred style of music than them.
Agree..only thing I ever got was a "nice shirt" comment and a smile..but then again..I dont have the personality where I think just because an individual with a penis talks to me it means he is hitting on me.
Wait what? When you're friends with someone that knows more than you about something you like, it just makes it easier to find cool shit. Why's that a turn off?
@@lisaburroughs7847 What part of my comment suggests that I think men talking to me in public means they're hitting on me? Do you realise you don't have to prove how much better you are than other women all the time either?
I meant getting shit from gatekeepers for potentially not knowing enough about the band whose shirt I'm wearing, not sexual harrassment by men, lol. There is a youtuber, forgot her name, who described this happening to her quite frequently, the 'name 1 song' bs from grown men, but she tends to wear shirts of bigger bands like Slipknot that a lot of people would recognise.
@@theroboxer3282 Big egos, some dudes don't want a woman that is more knowledgable or more skilled than them at something
In b4 the 'NOT ALL MEN' comments
@@becbec4820 I'll hit you with a "yeah actually a lot of women are exactly the same". Gatekeeping isn't gender specific, I've known a shit load of female gatekeepers.
When I recommended this topic to you on Twitter over a year ago, I figured you decided it was a bad idea. I have only experienced sexism when I was in metal bands back in 2008-2011. I was told dudes don't want women in their bands because they start drama & ruin everything. (Thats sometimes true but in my case, very incorrect lol). I was kicked out of venues before our shows started because security said I was lying about being in the band & that I was just a groupie. Super fun times..... 😒. Anyway, thanks for talking about this subject finally Finn.
The trope of women causing drama and ruining everything is just a product of insecure men being uncomfortable with women being something other than a sex object or caretaker😒
I hate when it’s all dudes in emo, metalcore, pop punk. I love when it’s a mix of guys and gals.
The fuck? Security's stupid sometimes.
@@HoChiMints2007 I should've had the dude fired lol
He's addressed it before, no need for the "finally". Also that sucks, getting mistaken for a groupie would be pretty disheartening I'm sure
As a female rock fan, I’m glad I didn’t deal with any of this. At least not to my face. I’ve been going to concerts and wearing band shirts since I was 10 and I’m 36 now and still wear band shirts and go to concerts and shows, nobody has ever asked me how many songs I can name. Or has given me crap about my music taste. I guess I’m just one of the lucky ones.
Exactly, same to me. I started wearing band tshirts when I was 11 and actually was the only girl at my high school that started wearing them. Eventually other girls that were into rock music started wearing them and that was cool! And the thing is that no guys never made fun of us and no guys never wore any band t. Idk how the people at schools are behaving rn but back then everything was cool
you didn’t deal with all this……because it’s not real.
this dude is just a libtard in disguise of a music fan
@@user-hw9cj2nu5f dam it’s not real? Could’ve sworn multiple men through stones at me because rock is no place for women. Guess the bruises must’ve been an hallucination.🤷🏻👆🏻
@@user-hw9cj2nu5f wow....you are just a nice guy..such a great waste of air
@@user-hw9cj2nu5f do you go around calling people libtards on the regular? That's so cool bro...that's the most original comment ever..sooooo why do u act like this? No friends? Tiny package?(most likely) low self worth? Got to cheated on cause you are a creepy pathetic person. Not sure but I'm done taking the trash
As a female artist I agree we have to work extra hard for our respect in the music industry.
12:35 This is so fucking true. People should have given more respect to Suicide Silence and Bring Me The Horizon back when they were heavier, since they were the hottest, newest shit to come out at the time, and it was pure angst and aggression, same as the first Asking Alexandria album. Heavy as fuck, and even though I love listening to the more OG type of Metal now than back then, I strongly agree that if it wasn't for the women haters, Metalcore and Deathcore in general would be widely respected by the metalheads. You don't hear the same shit about Pantera or Lamb of God, because of their sexist audience.
Because lamb of God and Pantera aren’t total dogshit like Suicide Silence or fucking Asking Alexandria.
@@Divine_Serpent_Geh Not even. Those bands had heaviness. Different kind of heaviness compared to Pantera and Lamb of God
@@Divine_Serpent_Geh what makes them dogshit?
I don't get it; why wouldn't guys want woman to like the same kind of music as them?
As a fan of technical/progressive metal, I'd love to know that my future wife enjoys the same kind of music so we can play that kinda music together, but I'm just now starting to realize that the fan base for that genre is mostly dude's who play guitar. I mean, that's fine, but when I love something, I want to share it so other people can enjoy it too; it's really frustrating when genres have "gate keepers".
Maybe they are the people that hang out at those sausagefests.
I don't see an issue with media products having target demographics. Is K pop misandrist for catering to women lol?
Sometimes you get lucky and meet your future spouse folding underwear together while working at Victoria's Secret and find out you have the same taste in music and listen to Avenged Sevenfold at your super Catholic church wedding 😂.
I didn’t even know Jada Pickett Smith was in a metal band😮 I learned something new today
yeah it slaps!
As a female rock fan I didn't deal with this much, until I was at a 5FDP show.. the men seated behind us (we had a table and they were in the stands behind us), who talked shit the whole time.. I was only there for In This Moment, my family dragged me to the show (every concert I go to my brother and I go with our parents), and good lord whenever I took a couple videos, I was doing it for "likes" "attention".. I'm not a followed person 🤣 pretty sure most of my family hates me.. It actually bothered me, and usually things like that don't.. I had been to a ton of shows before and maybe it didn't happen, or maybe I didn't notice it.. I was raised on 80s hair metal, grunge, hard rock and metal.. We were actually punished if we were caught listening to country lmao.. things have changed now, but I don't listen to the music for any reason other than I fkn love the bands!
This is a great video, this kind of attitude has been holding rock music back forever. It's a great point you made about Tim as well. I remember a time in high school when someone actually said "no woman likes metal and if they say they are they are lying" and I know that teenagers say stupid things but this attitude is real.
"hardcore will never die because it isn't mainstream, kinda like jazz" -signed, a guy who's never listened to jazz.
The 20s-50s never happened according to him
I agree with you 100%. This holds true to any Fandom sadly. It's really toxic and can be downright infuriating.
@Arthur Frayn my dude just replied by saying that calling toxicity toxic is bad, and to stop thinking in "bumper sticker slogans". Where did they make a bumper sticker slogan at all?
@Arthur Frayn Arthur stop being toxic. Clearly you can read peoples' mind if you're able to know that he's thinking "toxicity" in a bumper slogan way. Unless...YOU are thinking of it in a bumper slogan and therefore think everyone is using it a such? But that can't be true, it must be your mind reading abilities, it must be.
@Arthur Frayn damn I used to use toxic when talking shit in video games so hate the word became what it is now lol but sometimes you gotta use the easiest way to explain something
@Arthur Frayn Toxic :
1. Poisonous
(Toxic waste)
2. Very harmful OR unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way
(toxic relationship)
**Pervasive:
(Of an unwelcome influence throughout a group of people)
I don't think "toxic" was misused in that case.
I get your point that lots of people overuse trend words and throw them every sentence to be "relevant" but that wasn't one of these instance.
@Arthur Frayn agreed
The thing that annoys me at the moment is the trend of 'vocal coach reacts' videos. They are usually bands like Spiritbox or Jinjer, and it always seems implied that women can't do extreme vocals.
I really appreciate this video and the willingness and boldness to talk about it knowing you'd likely lose followers or stir up some people in the comments. But if they do so even, it shows how closed-minded they are because all of what you said are VALID points, they just don't want to hear it. Thank you for sticking up for us women.
As a women who has fallen in love with rock, metal, and just heavy music in general, it's always been a topic of conversation with people if they somehow found out. Similar to the tshirt scenario, people would almost want me to prove that I was into heavy music because they couldn't possibly believe that a young girl could be into it. Or the assumption that "it's just a phase, you'll get over it soon and go back to pop". That comment was especially said A LOT when I was in high school. But you're absolutely right, and I think people discrediting the age range of "teenage girls" is the stupidest thing ever because at the end of the day, they're just people too listening to music that they like, who cares about the added reasons behind it.
On the note of the actual music, I am someone who LOVES the message and meaning behind lyrics, whether that being how well I connect to it or if it's obvious how passionate the artist is about the lyrics they are writing. So I am picky with what I listen to more deeply. Some songs I can enjoy and whatever but if the lyrics have meaning, that's what I'm drawn to. So your example of Cannibal Corpse and those songs/lyrics, those would not be a fun listen at all. This is totally generalizing for a moment here but I don't see how any female could casually listen to "fuck me with a knife" for fun, and enjoy it too LOL.
Anyways that was a rant, and I don't even know if it made that much sense but I am thankful for you covering it!
Finn: "Teenage girls determine what's cool."
And that's why I've been showing my cousins who are in high school a lot of pop punk and metalcore from when I was growing up. So far Falling in Reverse is acting like a solid gateway
Nah they suck.
@@adeptdamage3669 that's your opinion
@@adeptdamage3669 maybe, but if they introduce someone to the rock/metal scene and better bands who cares?
THANK YOU!!!! 🙌🙌
thank you for your scream tutorials!
Nice to see you here love your channel!
I know it’s kind of Cliche but real recognize real. Also love your channel
What's your OnlyFans?
@@JM-fo1te lol this is literally what he's talking about dude
Hell yeah!! Thank you so much for this video! I've been a die hard metalhead my whole life and its great to see a man giving an authentic, intelligent critique of women in rock 🎸
Thank you so much for giving a voice to the issue of essentialism. I've been trying to find ways to explain that idea to people but couldn't find the right way to say it but you've really helped me find a way to describe it and the problems that arise from it. Thank you great vid!
Im gonna wear a Sims t-shirt so girls ask me "Oh, you like The Sims? Can you name 3 expansions?"
Or... "Oh, you like animal crossing? Can you name 5 villagers?"
Well… can you?
i read that Jo Bench of Bolt Thrower was a huge dealbreaker for women to get into metal. She was a role model in a world of metal dominated by men and showed other women that they can listen to metal and get in a band. But also i think one of the reason that she did what she did is that dudes in BT were open-minded, never diminished her role and they considered normal to play with a woman in line-up. Gotta fuckin love Bolt Thrower!
They are the GOAT for a reason
Jo Bench was probably the First Lady of extreme metal, but correct me if I’m wrong.
Thanks a lot for making this video!! As a young girl who grew up literally surrounded by musicians, I've felt that I need to keep away from the Metal scene to be safe. Music has been a HUGE part of my family. My mom is an amazing bassist who used to have a band. Everyone knows how to play at least one instrument + don't even get me started on karaoke nights.
I've always found myself on the Punk and indie side of rock; just completely avoiding the Metal scene despite how many times my Mom, Uncle, Aunts and most of their friends tried to get me to listen to Metallica or teach me how to play Sweet child 'o mine on the guitar once I started learning. I always did that out of fear and bitterness at the possibility that there will be guys who'll go at me and start spewing out how much of a fake fan I am for just BEING A FEMALE ENJOYER of the music.
Now that I'm a lot older, self-assured, and most importantly *ready to throw hands*, I've let myself be a fan of the metal scene :>> (despite how long it took *ehem* 4-5 years *cough* ) I haven't had anyone one interrogate me for wearing a band shirt out in public yet so that's a good thing ig??
thank you for talking abt this omg. i go to a bunch of metal shows n these mindsets are so rampant. theres been sooo many shows where i have been groped. this is a huge problem that not many people talk about.
As someone in your primary demographic, I appreciate this talk. You don't learn much in an echo chamber.
as a woman who's had a lifelong interest in nerd culture (video games, sci-fi & fantasy, etc) AND dark music (mostly goth and industrial) I've gotten the cred check bullhonky so many times that now my tactic is to just look them right in the eye and say "oh I don't know what this is I just like the t-shirt" with a straight face. with the nerd stuff I'll say "oh you caught me I'm a fake nerd I just do this to get your attention, clearly it worked" and it is SO DAMN FUNNY to see their faces twist while they sputter and try to think of something to say
one time I went to a Watain show with my husband and took a break to go find a place to sit down, some guy immediately sat next to me and started asking me if I was into the bands, I said "no I'm not into metal I'm just here with my boyfriend" and god I've been riding the high of watching his face fall ever since
I hope it reads as sarcasm, they should know they're being ridiculous. Why would someone just assume a person would rep merch they didn't understand?
@@ShodansServer I would've paid good money for a video of that moment.
Does everyone stand up and clap after you say this?
You are the sarcasm Queen and we need to be best friends!
I really appreciate you not only bringing up the topic, but laying everything out so articulately and fair. Very well said
Right before i got a scholarship to the number 1 commercial music university i applied to teach guitar at a local shop. The owner refused to even let me try out because "no one wants to learn guitar from a girl". I ended up being 1st in my class, tutoring the other students, and later teaching on my own. That guitar shop is torn down.
FYI GUYS: Willow covered her moms song "Bleed over me" and it shreds.
It really does 🤘🏽
I’ve always thought Willow was super talented and the whole “Whip Your Hair” thing was just her trying to find a place within the music scene as a kid but once she found her voice, she really killed it. And this new pop punk thing she’s got going on is actually really good. Transparent Soul is super catchy and interesting and I’m down with the whole aesthetic and vibe.
@@HelloMyNamesMichael I didn’t even know Willow did that song lol
Gotta say, I'm happy that there's actually a lot more positivity in this comment section, and the like to dislike ration is so one sided. It shows that even tho sexism is still a problem in metal, there are alot of people that see that it is, and want it to stop
Just found your channel recently and I really appreciate the work you put into your videos.
I love that you bring up topics like this and are not afraid to talk about it and point out what kind of problems there are.
I have to confess, I was pretty embarrassed as I watched the video and realized, I never thought about the situation of female musicians.
For me it never made a difference if there is a male or female musician in a band.
I am really shocked, that it is the way you showed.
I 100% appreciate the video. Thank you so much for putting it out there and educating. On thing that I’d like to add is that there also isn’t as many women in rock also because most women are raised to believe that the “shouldn’t” or “can’t” be in a band. Or listen to heavy music.
I used to have that "gate keeper" attitude but watching your videos changed my perspective on music in general. Thanks dude! You rule! You truly rock!!!
🥳
Yeah I was bit of a gate keeper in my teens. But now with the ability to stream music and pay for a subscription to an app I now listen to whatever I feel like. It's good to change it up. Instead of listening to the same 5 bands 24/7
@@brianjankowski4419 Same sentiments here. Why limit yourself. There's a universe of bands and other music genre what you will surely enjoy.
I think a big part of this could also be "teenage" mentality. I feel like this way of thinking is subconsciously absorbed as your typical metalhead guy ages. Most of these "metal head" elitist guys started listening to metal during teenage years and they just never grew out of it. How many 40 year olds do you know that recently got into heavy music and talk shit about teenage fan girls? None because they don't give a fuck and probably have a teenage daughter.
I highly recommend you look at the comments section anytime metalsucks or lambgoat post about Spiritbox, it's straight up disgusting and it's fucking sad they're are so good.
@@Marcustrh I'm not sure I follow, I'm assuming it's full of the same childish shit I'm talking about?
There is also a lot of the teenage mentality a metal shows because for old dudes like me going to shows is a nostalgia trip.
@@MrHSwager 100% lol I'm 28 so I'm kind of in between but I can definitely see that mentality more among the younger crowd.
@@Marcustrh Spiritbox is fucking amazing dude, great band
One thing I’d like to point out is in the music industry anytime a dude is vulgar, no bats an eye. When a woman is vulgar, Karens come outta the woodwork and shame her.
I appreciate you tackling this topic. I stopped wearing band tees because I got tired of having to prove my taste in music. I stopped going to shows because I got tired of alternatively being challenged about why I’m there and then being groped under the guise of “moshing”.
I died when you showed the picture of the kind of person who will be upset at this video. 😂
My 15 year old self might have been upset by this video. Now I'm in my 30s I look back at myself in horror. Suffice to say you're not wrong.
Oml yes...this!!
better late than never
May I add something to the discussion? Because someone could say like "well, male teenagers don't act like female teenagers tough". The thing is, when it comes to essentialism, a certain category of people may construct it's own identity by purposely acting in the exact opposed way to the "other" category. I've seen this a lot, since stereotypical "female" behavior is negatively connotated, "male" people actively try to be the exact opposite. This is to say that the dicotomy "male" / "female" is socially constructed and not intrinsic.
Thank you for the video. Very well done I'm really grateful. Long live metal🤘
As a female rock fan who grew up in the pop punk scene and idolized Gwen and then Haley, thank you so much for this. I love your videos and I’m subscribed now!
Thank you for making this video Finn. As a woman in the metal/alternative scene, I've seen all of these situations happen, specially the gatekeeperism against young girls in the scenes. Also, I've seen so many guys swoon for well known women metal musicians, (not understanding that just as any other genre, these musicians are in the famous rockstar sphere and look that way because of that) and bitch to everyone that a metalhead girl would be the perfect girlfriend for them because they don't like normi girls, but the moment they see girls in the scene they start to question everything about them starting from their appearance to their music taste.
Of course not every metalhead guy is like this, but the amount of mysoginistic dudes in these scenes is unreal. The bright side is that I start to see that now there is a lot more acceptance and less prejudice than when I was a teen. But it's definitely a long way to go still.
I am sorry you have had to experience all that! Many in my gender are idiots, especially when young (some still are when they're older). They want a metal GF, until a real metal girl comes around. They don't have a clue what they want.
Often these same guys who find the female metal singers "hot" are the same ones who complain when female fans find the male singers hot. Obvious double standard (plus we live in a society that sexualizes women to the point of parody)!
@@crazydud3380 totally! Thank you for addressing this! I know (and hope) it won't be like this forever. But sometimes it disappoints me to see that just like when I was a kid, often times now a girl has to still act harsh, even aggressive and put on very thick skin to get a pass in these circles, to get a guy off of her and be taken "seriously".
So yeah I am happy to see that this is being talked about, because rock and metal need to be more welcoming to everyone.
@@crazydud3380 Guys who complain when girls find male singers attractive are such losers.
Unleash the Archers, In this Moment, Lacuna Coil, and Oceans of Slumber come to mind when people talk about women in rock. Female vocals in metal take it to a whole new level for me. There's an intensity that women bring to metal that too many purists dismiss without even giving a quick listen to.
Epica, Archenemy, the list goes on. Being "female-fronted" seems to be far more normalized in Europe. (Most the women in metal come from overseas.)
Not to mention The Gathering and one of the biggest bands of the last twenty years, *Nightwish*
I'll never get tired to say how good Jinjer is, Tatiana's harsh vocals has this kind of jet engine sound that she mixes with her clean pop-ish voice witch is so good, and on top of that, other Jinjer members are also some really good musicians (their bassist is straight up insane, just listen to what he does in who's gona be the one)
Lacuna Coil is actually a great example of the looks double standard thing he talked about, just look at any social media post Cristina makes that includes a photo of her...about 80% of the comments will be guys simping for her and stuff like calling her their Queen. And sure, she's a beautiful woman and and nothing wrong with acknowledging that, but imagine the reaction if any male frontman had that type of reaction from tons of women whenever he posted anything.
@@zacknelson7839 yeah, because women NEVER say a guy in a band is hot or anything...
First of all I really want to share again that to you Finn Mckenty, how much I both enjoy your content and my respect has only grown from seeing the content you put out there! I 100% agree that sexism in metal and rock is just a really ugly and weird thing that I've never understood. Ever since I was a teenager I was always excited by bands that drew in a female fan base, and as 15 year old listening to bands like Nightwish and Arch enemy, what kid wouldn't start to develop a crush on these singers! Whilst I don't remember personally putting these artists on pedestal, I agree that it's not a healthy way to think about musicians, fans or people general and to say "Female Vocalist" even in a positive way does still promote that idea of separateness. That being said I think more importantly as you already, it's the misogyny and negative attitudes in the metal scene that are socially tolerated and accepted is really not ok and people need to be called out on it and know that it's not ok.
In addition I also feel like I see a lot of positive reinforcement of abuse in lyrics from certain bands, such as Asking Alexandria. How they have such a large female audience with such misogynistic lyrics really baffles me. It reminds me of the glamorization of a highly abusive relationship such as the Joker and Harley Quinn being depicted as highly romantic and...ideal. When really it should be acknowledged that it's actually really f@#$ed up.
Apologies for the large rant, just wanted to say I both support and agree with everything you mentioned and you made some points I also hadn't really considered before.
Thank you so much for this!!! You absolutely hit it out of the park
I have to admit that my concern with the "female-fronted" description is that it implies that the only thing women can bring to rock music is vocals- I want to see more women on guitars, drums, whatever other instrument, and I want to see them out there enjoying the music they create and sharing it with the rest of the world.
Tetrarch as a female guitarist and she shreds!
I believe Skillet has two women in the band, and only one of them sings.
@Arthur Frayn Did you not watch the video? Many women having different tastes is not what this is about at all. I mean, metal is known for being aggressive, which often feeds into testosterone, so of course it will have more male fans in general. However, many women in these comments attest to what this video talks about, and it makes them quieter in their fandom, so many of these guys are simply shrinking that female audience even further.
@Arthur Frayn "I think women just don't like metal."
Watch the video, actually PAY ATTENTION. Your stance is absolutely one of privilege and you seriously need to re-evaluate your limited, privileged, narrow minded way of thinking.
Paz Lechantin is a good bassist in my opinion
I’m so glad someone is finally bringing this up. I stopped wearing band shirts out for like 3 years because men kept quizzing me on them. I’ve also been harassed multiple times for it as well. Another thing I would like to bring up is how women are treated at shows. I’ve been sexually harassed and assaulted at multiple concerts and I no longer crowd surf because of it. People don’t respect women at concerts and they constantly either treat us like babies or like shit. Even while being at a concert for an artist or band, I’ve been asked to name songs of theirs. IN WHAT WORLD WOULD SOMEONE PAY AND GO TO A SHOW FOR MUSIC THEY DON’T ENJOY?
I hope that people keep this conversation going because at this rate, all I see is rock music and fans dying out because of the sexism and hatred.
As a petite dude who frequently dresses in very convincing drag to attend shows, this is something that was profoundly shocking the first few times I experienced it. Rest assured, for those who still question it, the crowdsurfing issue is very real! I still crowdsurf but mostly because I think it'd be hilarious if some creep actually succeeded in taking my top off one day, only to catch a face full of silicon and duct tape lol... also with how insecure those types of guys are about their sexuality, I love to imagine them doing a full 180 in their own head as they realize they were trying to undress another dude! I still listen to metal frequently but I definitely talk about it minimally with strangers these days, just to avoid having to put up with the toxic portion of the fanbase. I hope you find the courage to continue crowdsurfing, and that the community can find the strength to grow past these issues and keep the scene alive!
they want to think of all woman as sex objects and they are bitter you're not there just for them. so they diminish your interest to be there to be just as shallow as they are.
If someone asks me to name 3 songs from the band whose tshirt I'm wearing I will answer, "let's see.... fuck you, fuck yourself, and fuck off. How'd I do?" :)
I been over 125 concerts and that’s never happened stop lying
@@stromboliman8132 you’re lucky then. I’ve been harassed and sexually assaulted at concerts and I’ve only been to like 20 of them.
I am grateful to you for this video, I grew up listening to punk and metal and all my friends who shared my same passion judged me as a girl, I wasn't even particularly pretty and that made it worse because everyone thought I was doing it for the cute singer or asking me for the discography of every single musician that I appreciate. I really hated all this, also because I have always listened to pop music too and this made everything worse!
I remember this girl in college hated cardi b so much over the drugging thing and acted like she was the biggest piece of shit for it. Yet at the same time she was huge fan of $uicideboy$ and I pointed out that they've openly talked about their history of scamming and robbing prior to their rap fame. She refused to admit her obvious bias and just kept trying to say Cardi was way worse because she drugged men, as if that's way worse then just pointing a gun at their face 😒
Exactly
I know the dudes with long, unbrushed hair, denim cargo shorts, a disturbed shirt, white hanes tube socks with the chunky DC shoes are gonna be hot in your mentions for this one!
That's pretty much me and i agree with what he says in this video. Kinda of funny you're doing the exact thing hes talking about. Judging on looks and stereotyping people.
Two things that I see happened constantly:
Dudebros hates whatever young female likes (mall emo, Twilight, K-Pop, early Beatles, whatever)
Young female are almost always loyal to the fandom and actually *spends* on merch, concerts, everything.
This leads to dudebros being bitter about the things they hate become bigger because there are money being spent there and the cycle keeps on continuing.
Exactly
For real though. Also I feel like people don't start appreciating these things until male start to appreciating them. E. G. The Beatles, and I definitely feel like people are starting to recognize MCR and Taylor Swift.
Wait, people hate on the Beatles? Now I've heard everything
@@loganstrickler2976 hated. Check on their early history
@@brainderp808 lol nah man Kpop is amazing
Recently discovered the channel and I’m glad I did. I haven’t listened to any kind of new metal since 2001-ish. Not because I’m a gatekeeper or purist, I think life just happened. Anyway, thanks to devouring the channels video library over the last month, I have discovered a ton of new kick ass metal bands, punk bands, rappers, Etc. And I enjoy the music history that is provided in the vids. Reliving old shit and discovering new shit. Love what you are doing, keep making the videos.
PS - I respect when you say you don’t like something, but that you also show them respect and discuss their place in music history. If one considers music art, and art is in the eye of the beholder, then just because someone doesn’t like them, it doesn’t make them any less talented or relevant. I wish more music lovers understood music that way.
Thank you for watching!
@@ThePunkRockMBA Will Do!