Elizabeth Boss Fight (Persona 3 Reload, 5 turns no DLC, Merciless)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 бер 2024
- This is going to be the first of a series of theorycrafted ideas I had with this fight. It's been a painful 50 hours grinding the personas I want, and I just had ideas along the way.
I think King and I's underrated with these, all strategies I've seen with this fight really encourages the usage of Scarlet Havoc only with the used Theurgia. And I get the idea why, criticals being very lucrative for high damage. However, I think looking into magic wasn't done because a good majority were unaware of the Vulnerability mechanic that this fight has.
I'm really glad that it returned to this version of the fight. And it seemed to be buffed too, now dealing 2x damage bonus instead of the previous version's 1.5x. And, well, you can clearly see the result. Expect to see more King and I for the next video. - Ігри
![Persona 3 Reload - Optional Boss Fight - The Reaper [HARD MODE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bxq_49ccKe4/mqdefault.jpg)
It always bugged me how the OG would just one shot you if you didn’t follow rules they don’t tell you about. Nice that while that’s still in place, they don’t punish you until they KNOW it’s a null or repel.
A very smart and creative strat, definitely more creative than most ppl just relying on scarlet havoc!
After adjusting some things, I managed to beat her! Thanks for the strats, my King and I dealt around 5.7k, so I fished for 1 crit to get her low enough so that the reflect would put her in armageddon range, and finally got it
Thanks again!! This game is awesome.
Nice to see, the opposite element do more damage mechanic is retained here.
It also seems Elizabeth won't immediately go into 9999 Megidolaon spamming mode until she hits into the Player's Null or Better at least once for this version of the fight. Looks like High Counter is now a liability with this new change.
Yes, High Counter is an instant loss if it procs without setup. The change with how she deals with repels makes this strategy all the more reliable though.
May require more turns, what with not using a fire weak persona with enduring soul as my debuffer, but I kinda forgot about king and I, and I was getting REAL tired of trying to reset for almighty amp. So… I think I’ll make a messiah with ice spells and make my telos an ice user. What I’m gonna do though is since I have multi target and ice amp cards in my bag, I’ll omit those as to allow the registered telos to have freeze boost + ailment boost instead, and have victory cry where endure was against her ^^
you got my sub! You deserve it, nice strats!
does ice driver stack with king and I theurgy? im getting a bad rng in my skill mutation, if so i might just use magic ability with ice driver
Yes, it does. That should work.
amazing, gotta ask though how did you manage to get all of your persona's stats to 99?
There's 3 things to keep in mind when boosting stats in this game.
One, days using the arcade for it is a waste. Incenses are way better.
Two, incense stats can be passed down on personas via fusion, but the amount of stats that are passed down can decay (will explain later)
Three, getting incenses is an expensive endeavor. So you want to do the best methods to grind them while also reducing the amount you need. This means grinding the reaper for money while also boosting the personas you have fused to be level 99 for the free stats per level up.
Stat inheritance is a mechanic that's present in Vanilla/FES/P3P but is lost in P4 and P5. More or less, the way it works is that the amount of incenses you poured into a persona will be retained while fusing. But after multiple steps, the amount that is inherited decays. The rule is this, the first fusion will get all stats from incenses. However, after that it will decay by half after one fusion step. To exploit this, it is best to boost a persona that are present in many fusions that you want to do. A classic example would be Thanatos being used for Messiah and Telos and some rank 10 personas. The amount a persona can give stat wise is retained when you register them in the compendium so you can make personas a "stat battery" of sorts due to this.
You want to stock up on Growth 3 cards so while you grind the reaper to hell and back, the personas you have fused already in your stock gains levels while you spam Armageddon or Scarlet Havoc. This increases efficiency the more you have personas in your stock that needs to hit 99. Another thing to increase efficiency is always having a devil card on hand before getting the reaper.
Overall, the idea is to make the amount of incenses you need small by abusing stats inheritance and leveling up the personas that are being made. So the amount of reapers you need to kill decreases. As you do this more and more, the amount of personas that can give stats increases so the process becomes faster the more you do this.
Do you know how the Theurgy damage is calculated? When trying to use King and I with a persona with 99 St/Ma but not quite maxed other stats, I cant do over about 8.6k, which doesnt put her in KO range
That's actually common. That's around the average damage dealt by King and I. I just had the high roll out of the +/-5% variance range that the game usually does for damage skills. Likely you didn't see a high roll on your end.
This is probably obvious but freeze boost isnt needed for King and I damage right?
Not at all. Honestly it basically kills anything so it's essentially a dead skill.
I would likely put Enduring Soul instead. Or Diamond Dust.
How did you endure megidolan the first time with full health and the second time?
Arahabaki has endure while my armor has enduring soul.
Does magic ability and magic mastery stack? Good job for getting magic mastery btw
Yes it all does. There is a boosting cap of 5x but that is only achievable when you mix Driver passives in.
yes, but hitting elizabeth for over 10k makes it pointless
I'm not an expert on this fight, so I'm just curious: what triggered that first Megidolaon from Liz? I didnt see you break any rules
That's scripted to occur in the second turn of the 2nd phase. So that's guaranteed.
@@bothdoorscares3878I see, thanks
any advice on getting magic mastery for everyone? lol
Pray to whoever you pray to.
Just keep trying.
okay but like what skills do you find more successful to turn into magic mastery? i imagine it's something like magic ability debilitate concentrate and skills like that@@bothdoorscares3878
@@tuviaso Yes, rank 8 skills and Magic Ability is the usual suspect.
Magic Ability being the most usual.
how is your theurgy loading faster?
I used the fortune teller's effect from Escapade.
@@bothdoorscares3878I BEEN ON THIS BOSS FOR A ENTIRE DAY I CANT BELIEVE I DIDNT THINK ABOUT THAT
how do you get magic mastery so consistently? and how are u getting so much max HP lmao
Pain.
Also for the second question, I explained it in the second part of this series. I will simply copy paste it here:
"If anyone's curious as to how I have this big of an HP/SP pool, I grinded every day of January for Chariot, Hermit, Fortune and Strength cards. With 28 days being available due to two Link Episodes happening at night. Each will net 18 HP and 12 SP every day. Although I got a bit lazy when I hit 999 HP and only did 26 days or so of grinding SP. So yes, this is all possible in the confines of NG. The 50 hours of grinding came from somewhere. And I'm going to need the SP pool specifically for the last one."
@@bothdoorscares3878 oh, sorry for making you repeat yourself, and ty this'll be good to know for NG+
@@aracuno8626Oh I didn't mean it like that. I meant that getting it is a pain, and quite a lot of suffering.
I want to get magic mastery for my dlc's persona
Congrats, you really got the perfect personas for every skill, but seems you don't need them for this fight right?
Would be happy if you can explain some details, I know the FES fight well, and also like using multiple elemental personas, but this seems quite different. First, she seems to skip turns. I think she skips one persona if you attack her on her elemental weakness. So if I want to attack her with ice against Surt, I would need wind as next because she goes to Thor directly?So I can ignore skilling fire and elec? But I even think I saw her using 2 personas on one turn, which messes it up even more. I don't want to mess up my skillsets, specially when magic mastery is involved. For example, I screwed up because of her skipping to a persona that made me break the rules for negating damage. Also, she seems to select light or magic depending on your persona, so I once casted thunder reign on wind turn with Lucifer but instead of switching to light like usually she goes to dark, which he negates.
Other things: your equipment surprises me a bit. Why enduring soul on armor? Why a resist phys necklage? Does it stack with the skill? Is ali dance as reliable as it seems in your run, or was it luck? In FES, divine pillar+sharp student were strongly advised, because she could easily crit you to death.
At last, strats for faster magic mastery obtaining? It took me 6h velvet room for my first roll, circling between Telos, Thanatos and Messiah.
Last thing, I saw people skilling repel strike on a single persona run. How does this not break her rules from the start? In FES it would, because she randomly attacks with all 3 types.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
From experience of doing the fight normally, I found that wind is the least likely skill to use for the fight, assuming you skip first phase using King and I, as shown in my other videos. I simply like having all skills at their best, so I made a stock like this. And honestly, I was lucky that my picks per element were perfect because I did not map out her patterns in all of her phases at the time of recording.
I did now, however. I can list it here. For that example you gave for first phase, you are correct. She does indeed skip the usual next persona in the pattern. Then again, you can nuke the first phase with King and I so I don't really think that should matter. But if you must know, it will go something like this
Starting from Surt first phase when hitting her "Vulnerability" all the time (This is what I call the elements that will deal double damage but will not knock down)
>Thor
>Metatron
>Nebiros
>Masakado (no Vulnerability)
>Surt
And loop
Starting from Jack Frost:
>Cu Chulainn
>Alice
>Masakado (no Vulnerability)
>Surt
Then continue on the Surt pattern
Third phase is a tad more complex, but is still pattern-based. So it is imperative to know both the pattern with Vulnerability being exploited and not. Because all she does is switch up the second persona used in the pattern. I'll list it with numbers to make it easier to track what is going to be used next. Because you will switch from the no Vulnerability one if you buff up or use phys. And switch to the one with it when you use it. Do keep in mind that she uses Slash on Surt and Metatron, Strike on Thor, and Pierce for Cu Chulainn
No Vulnerability Third phase:
1. Surt/Jack Frost
2. Thor/Cu Chulainn
3. Metatron/Alice
4. Nebiros/Thor
5. Jack Frost/Thor
6. Alice/Surt
7. Cu Chulainn/Metatron
8. Alice/Masakado (The 8th pair only appears on even number of rotations of the pattern. If it is odd, like the first time you went into 3rd phase, this is skipped. And you go back to 1 immediately).
All Vulnerability Third phase (Meaning, you hit all Vulnerability coming from the no vulnerability list.)
1.Surt/Nebiros (Assuming you hit the Vulnerability in 7 from the previous list)
2. Thor/Surt
3. Metatron/Jack Frost
4. Nebiros/Masakado
5. Jack Frost/Metatron (Assuming you hit the Vulnerability in 4 from the previous list)
6. Alice/Nebiros
7. Cu Chulainn/Masakado
8. Alice/Masakado (Again, same idea as the no vulnerability pattern. Only appears on the even numbers of the rotation of the pattern).
That should be all, everyone else mapped out 2nd phase accurately already. Easy to nuke through and skip, anyways.
As for my equipment, that's because this is a 5 turn no DLC strategy. I could put Enduring Soul in my Arahabaki and it will do the job. However, I didn't find it necessary. The accessory I have did not have any bearings for this strategy. I run that resist phys equip normally in my playthroughs.
I will say though, Ali Dance has always been the best accessory against Elizabeth. Even in the original. People simply perpetuated the notion that Firm Stance is better when it really is not. For two simple reasons. One, shock and freeze. In the original, these are deadly exactly because of the reason you stated. Criticals. With Ali Dance, you have hit the evasion cap of 50% already. While with Firm Stance, you simply have to pray that you don't get shocked. And if you do, hope to god she uses magic instead of another phys that will kill you 100%. Secondly, not being aware of how to stack resists from personas and armor. In the Original, FES, and P3P, the resist magic effect of Armor of Light stacks with the innate resists or resist passives of the personas equipped. Just this alone gives enough defense to 3 hits from her. Pair it with the fact that I dodge basically 50% of the time, Ali Dance allows for less risky play overall. Especially in the Original and FES where I can't really guarantee a Null Shock or Freeze passive on the personas that needed it due to limited slots. Even in P3P, this is pretty tough to do. As these passives are not skill cards. Well you can make Firm Stance work pretty well with Regenerate passives on the personas used. But that is clearly not that feasible unless it's P3P. But I would prefer Ali Dance anyways because Regenerates are also busted with this passive as well.
My normal equipment list for bosses is as follows
>Lucifer's Blade (Magic Ability)
>Armor of Light (Resist Magic)
>Shoes of Light (Ali Dance)
>Amritite Necklace (Null Ailments)
I really cannot give any tips for that. It's RNG. Just pray or curse to whoever you pray to I suppose. But know this, keep on going. Don't give up. Load the personas that you're aiming for with rank 8 or 9 skills such as Debilitate, Heat Riser, 4th tier elemental magic spells, Null Phys, Morning Star, Magic Ability and whatnot. Magic Ability has the highest chance to mutate into Mastery so probably always have that on deck. Complaining is part of the process, I can say that much. But don't give up.
For that last one, it is simple. The way she is programmed now is she will only do the 9999 Megidolaon if she specifically hit the Null/Drain/Repel first. This might have been intended to teach the players what they did wrong at first but this also opened the exploit of this 5 turns strategy. Since she will only have 3 moves in the turn at best when she hits a null/drain/repel. Anyways, the type of phys attack she does is tied to the persona she has equipped. As mentioned before, this is Surt/Metatron for Slash, Thor for Strike and Cu Chulainn for Pierce. Thor is the problematic one for the Diarahan skip so we want to skip the turns when he is used. And as we know, hitting a Vulnerability skips the next persona in the usual cycle in first phase. So the idea is to hit Jack Frost with Fire every time to skip Thor. And when we do hit 2nd phase, allow the repel to happen. And tank the Megidolaon with Endure/Enduring soul. The Thor God's Hand repel in Second phase is guaranteed. It's a pattern on Second phase.
Anyways, you can't do Tetrakarn to not worry about Thor at first in this fight because she does spam 9999 Megidolaon at the moment you have a -karn up. So keeping Repel Strike on a one persona run with Diarahan skip is key to victory. That is basically it.
@@bothdoorscares3878
Man that was so much more than I expected, thanks for the science!
I must still figure out why you say wind is neglibible, in your first example you go from Surt to Thor, who would be weak to wind, and exploiting King and I is precisely what you seem to do, but as you say, this order doesn't apply in later phases.
Do non elemental personas of the boss have actually weaknesses? If so, would it make sense to attack light with dark? Guess the damage will be lower, so better buff on these turns, right? What about physical attacks?
That rank 9 skills mutate is news to me, never witnessed it, including magic ability, after many hours, so I've been sticking to level 8, but I believe you and will use MA again.
About Ali Dance/firm stance, sounds plausible, but guess it's also a matter of preference. Talking about FES, my standpoint is, if she manages to hit you without divine pillar and sharp student, the consequences will be more grave, and 50% chance is not that much great. Unlike reload, for FES you only need null shock (and proc is more seldom). I shared a video with you elsewhere doing precisely the regenerate strategy you mention (overkill). :-) Btw I made a Helel with m. mastery and maxed Inferno+Panta, and even think of skilling sharp student and firm stance on all other personas and run just bare ali dance shoes on him, lol, so strong is my safety need and distrust of ali dance, but I think at least for Reload it's unnecessary, she doesn't seem to hit that hard.
@@andygg7788You can attack light to dark or vice versa. They do have Vulnerabilities here. However, it's really not that much damage since these do not have 4th tier variants. So I would personally recommend buffing on these turns.
Physical attacks hit pretty decently hard as well with criticals. But there's no turns where she has vulnerabilities to these. So it'll follow the regular pattern usually with no vulnerabilities.
Yeah getting Magic Ability to mutate is very rare but it's more surefire. At the very least, it being rare makes the rank 8 skills appear more often as well. Overall it speeds up the process depending on the skills of the target.
Are you aware on how High Counter is 20% repel in all versions of P3? Firm Stance makes you not dodge and only 20% repel. While Ali Dance has the advantage of being able to dodge *and* have that 20% repel rate (I tested this, dodging does not change repel rates).
If you're not convinced, try looking up my Vanilla P3 Elizabeth fight. I dodged for days in there.
That sounds pretty good for a build. Although honestly, I just went for Amritite Necklace for the same reasons. But is much more universal. I noticed the critical rates are not boosted for Elizabeth. So Brave Blade is only the thing you're going to worry about. Although 20% critical rate isn't that good by itself.
@bothdoorscares3878
No I didn't know, so summing up, 70% chance of avoiding damage is impressive, though, this still benefits more from fast runs statistically, in a long run the fact remains that in FES hard, crit with no firm stance is easily death sentence (except you heal often, which is not the point of a strong build).
But yes, you confirm Elizabeth Reload is softer than her predecessor, so I think I'll play her with no teurgies, to even it out and benefit from your great pattern calculus.
Just help me see if I got It right with an example. Let's say my magic mastery Helel, who has currently Fire and Wind skilled. If I understand correctly, using Wind will lead to game over in any cycle, turn 4-non will lead to turn 5-yes, turn 5-non will lead to turn 6 yes, both contain light/dark in their pairs which Helel absorbs, so I would have to throw Wind out and rely on fire, which doesn't lead to a rule break. Now, my recently fused Messiah with ice seems only 50/50, if I attack on 6-non and go to 7-yes it's ok, but if I go from 2-yes to 3-yes there's Metatron and I fuck up. In this case Thanatos would be better for ice, since he is weak to light and only needs resist. Is this the math?
Lots of thanks again, you should publish this as a guide.
@@andygg7788In practice, you only really heal at the Light/Dark turns. So it really isn't that big of a difference in either case. Getting a critical from her is rare normally due to how it has 5% by itself if you're dodging. Being susceptible to shock and freeze more is a much more common occurrence, that's why I am not fond of Firm Stance.
Anyways, yes. You're right in that analysis. I really got lucky with my picks on that. I was also thinking of making an ice Messiah at some point. But decided against it.
I do plan to make a guide at some point. I just need the time to make necessary research and writing for it. I am debating if I want to make a video for it as well, or if I simply do it in a written format like I did before for P3P. I also want to do a fusion guide first as well.
Wanna ask, how do you get maim necklace?
Regular chest in Harabah second area.
@@bothdoorscares3878 thanks i'll try to farm it
@@bothdoorscares3878 just got it from (2x twilight) chest in harabah
, thanks for the information
I am seeing that you are using 3 (maybe 4?) persona for this right? I am asking because I got the request & I am about to go on reaper grind for level up. So might as well level up these personas along with others.
The generally important personas would be:
Auto buffs
King and I bot
Repel Strike persona with Endure
Optional to have a decently strong Almighty persona with Enduring Soul in case King and I doesn't do a high roll for damage (rule of thumb is King and I needs to do 8.8K damage so you don't need this persona).
So yes, you need mostly 3 or 4 personas to replicate this perfectly.
@@bothdoorscares3878 thanks for the quick reply. I'm on Repaer grind to get everyone to lvl 99. Then another Repaer grind to get all personas to lvl99.
I am going to try Cendrellion strats with Scarlett Havok because I am gonna drive myself crazy trying to get that elusive Magic Mastery skill. Lol
@@SSmitar you could use Ice Driver Goemon to replicate this effect.
Just need Boost + Amp + Magic Ability (Likely from Lucifer's Sword) + Driver.
That's an alternative.
@@bothdoorscares3878 oh dope. Yeah, I'll try that too. This farming takes so much time and fusing some of the end game persons are expensive asf.