Massive Wavetable Polysynth - 3rd Wave - Sonic LAB Review
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- #soniclab
#groovesynthesis #3rdwave
Thanks to Perfect Circuit for supporting this video - you can buy the 3rd Wave from them:
bit.ly/pc3rdwave
The folks at California based Groove Synthesis have created an homage to the PPG. It's big, blue and bold and is packed with features.
The 3rd Wave is a 24 voice DSP based Wavetable Synthesizer with three oscillators per voice featuring classic PPG era Wavetables, plus modern interpolated ones, user waves and virtual analog waves. These are then processed by 2 filters - one pure DSP State Variable, and one pure analog 4-pole designed by legend Dave Rossum.
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00:00 Intro
00:50 PerfectCircuit.com Ad
01:30 basic overview
03:53 Sounds 1
07:49 Oscillators
13:59 Filters
19:19 All the Envelopes
23:19 Mod Matrix
25:53 Wave Surfer
27:16 Sounds 2
28:05 Multi-timbral Mode
30:50 FX
34:53 Watch out for the compressor
35:53 Making your own Wavetables
38:50 Closing thoughts
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Thank you, Nick for this, Your perspective on our first creation -- the 3rd Wave --- is comprehensive and authoritative - as usual. We're very grateful for the wonderful job you've done here to showcase what the synth can do. And yes, indeed, the tech foundation we've started here with the 3rd Wave will both "trickle down" and "trickle up" into more instruments. We're just getting started and you've given us a real boost here. We can't thank you enough.
From what I have read, you guys are OG Sequential, which means good things for this synth.
I wish you all the success with this and hope you grow the company for future endeavors.
It's a beast of a synth, Tangerine Dream would be all over this.
Nick did great coverage which is a given when he does what he does!!
@@dankeplace Hi Danke. Yes, fully half of our team --- Bob, Tracy, and I (Mark) --- are ex-Sequential guys. We all had a decade or more working with Dave Smith, which was a blessing. In fact, an anecdote I'll share here is that in one of the last interviews I did with Dave for an in-house Prophet-5 Rev4 promo thing, I asked Dave if he would ever do one of those "Master Class" things you see online now. Dave's answer was "I already did." When I looked confused, he said: "With you guys!" He meant of course that he had "trained" Bob, Tracy, and I (Dave knew that we were developing the 3rd Wave and was fine with it) - but he also meant the whole Sequential gang. We all learned from him. That meant the world to us. We were very lucky to have worked for him and with him and now that he's gone, we like to think that we're carrying on his legacy and his spirit in our own humble way. (We left after he passed.) Our biggest regret is that he never got to actually play the 3rd Wave. He died right before we debuted it at NAMM. Very bittersweet. But again, we were very very lucky to have learned from him.
@@starchedshirt13 thank you for an amazing and insightful story.
I am sure Dave would have given all your efforts his blessings, as others do to.
I have a bunch of Sequential gear and was a little sad to hear when FR took over, I am sure Dave knew abt his own health so possibly wanted to look after his family/friends with the passing of the torch so to speak.
It's great to see that with the seeds Dave sowed, that this beautiful synth came from it.
I am sure you're all proud of your efforts too, as Dave would be.
Thanks once again for sharing this with us.
@@tombird2483 The 3rd Wave isn't a limited-edition synth. We'll keep building them as long as musicians keep buying them.
@@GrooveSynthesisMark I feel like this is becoming the ultimate Synthesizer for me and I hope one day I will be able to grab one. I think it will remain for a long time on the top of Synths. The versatility and sound are absolutely amazing.
Currently I'm using the Korg Prologue 16 for my music, it does a lot of things and it also has a massive sound, but it's limited in many ways. The 3rd Wave definitively will be an important upgrade.
I love the desktop unit I daydream about making patches. It is a synth that 'clicks' with the user quickly but has limitless potential
That machine is just absolutely beautiful. Thank you for the review, I was really waiting for it!
Lovely synth! I always learn what I want from Nick's reviews. He knows what musicians are looking for.
Thanks for this great review! You are the best synth reviewer on youtube! Great to see you back on the track... doing important synth releases.
I’m really starting to think seriously about selling off a few things and getting one of these. What a great sound! The aesthetic is… interesting. I’m not sure whether I love it or hate it. There’s something about it that reminds me of mid-00s gaming computers and I’m not into that, and that shade of blue is very…. Blue.
I can say with almost complete certainty that I will never be able to afford a synth of this price (or anything close to it) but it is a joy to watch Nick review them. God save the Batt.
Most of us will never own houses.
Just stop being poor. Problem solved.
@@CommunityGuidelines low quality bait
@@d3tuned378 It's true, though. If you want money, you can acquire money. If you want a PPG synth, you can work to acquire one. Every single synth comments section has someone saying, "I can't afford it", and they're all incorrect. They CAN afford it; they just don't WANT it badly enough.
@@CommunityGuidelines I've got a Blofeld, and a few other smaller items, but I also have 2 kids (the Blofeld et al were purchased before having kids), a mortgage, a car, insurance, etc. so it's a matter of priorities. I can't afford it because I can't justify paying for it. Thanks for your input though. Nice thought.
My new fave synth!! Great review Nick!
I made the Propaganda Split patch reference the chorus of “The Murder of Love” if you hit play on the sequencer 😉
Sounds lovely. Presets take me back to Depeche Mode's Some Great Reward era. 🎹
Exactly 🙏
The choir on See You was made on a PPG, so they definitely also used it earlier.
@@dddayesq5061 It was probably their best tour. Before they grew too big. I only saw them around Black Celebration and Music for the Masses. Their synths were hidden behind podiums.
@@BananskudenWhich tour you're referring to exactly? Because it seems like the other reply has been deleted since.
Nice segment NIck. This is one of my favorite synths in a long time. Sounds great, looks great, feels great.
"A lot of Doof" is a great selling point 😁
It’s like having a wavetable-based Moog One…but with fewer bugs.
Wow, I really love this synth! Wish I had those kind of doubloons to shell out for it!
Every time I hear a demo of this synth it just sounds amazing. To me, it sounds better than any other wavetable synth I've heard. Definitely a dream machine.
I was missing the word 'magic' from the first second, but Nick said it finally in the outro.
Pure magic this is.
Thanks for the review, Nick. Just a Beautiful Synth. Sounds Amazing
This synth is a blast to play, and the multi outputs presents some amazing possibilities for large scale live stereo sound. Thanks for sharing this!
This resurgence of PPG Wave style synths is quite cool. I got Waldorf M, which is another variant of PPG Wave and I love it. And yeah it has the same Dave Rossum's SSI2144 filters.
Close, but not quite- the M uses the SSI2144, the 3rd Wave SSI2140
@Aaron Foltz yes, SSI2144 is an update of SSM2044
Hope they do the Sequential thing and do a cut down 1 or 4 voice version of this as a module.
I love that this is multitimbral and everything, but I've already got so many synths I really cannot see myself going through the trouble of using all 4 of those outs, or even 2!
The interpolation switch is interesting.
Wish more wavetable synths opened up the interpolation the way that the Waldorf NW1 does with it's noisy and brilliance.
Really that thing is the wavetable OSC to beat.
As usual very good review:)! The notes you played at 20:21 minutes were wonderful and typically what you do so well as a Master Synthesizer Reviewer! Mr Nick Batts, “Respect”!!!
Sounds great. May buy one soon.
Great demo.
The Propaganda riff is Murder Of Love from the album Secret Wish
Great review from Nick as usual...
Very good, good synthesizer with a lot of sound power and all the control in your hands without going too deep. It costs what it costs, a bit expensive in price... Well, cheer up with all things and let's all go with joy...
Some damn nice chords to start of there Nick!
seems to be very cool
We missed your review boss!
Great video - 3rd Wave does sound brilliant. I’ve tried some of the synths at this price, Trigon, Oberheim, Prophet and 3rd Wave has the most to offer I think. Hopefully will get a chance to try one at my local shop. But…. I can’t afford it 😢 most can’t however some can & 😊hopefully it will be a success and we will see wavetable type of synthesis coming to a more affordable synth. Maybe a Boutique??? just kidding 😊
It was when Bruce saw the kettle cord plugged into the back that he knew: He *had* to buy this synth...
Just like the PPG Waveterm, this synth requires time and a learning curve in order to master. An amazing synth, if one can invest the time to learn it!
It sounds super, hope they ll make a rack mountable version and I ll buy it
Definitely getting 1 💥
Duufe! I may start using that.
This is a super synth no doubt.
I've found Perfect Circuit to be pretty perfect. Even when an error is made their customer support is ACES 😊
Nice outro tune Nick.
Another fantastic synth... But I'm curious if you got the B-SOC MAKINA MK II yet? No one seems to have it so far. (Sorry, off topic.)
"It's got a lot of... doof down there." 10:50
What a machine. Pretty much ticks all my boxes, and would be my desert island machine (... if I could afford it. Not to say it's not fairly priced for the quality.)
NAMMthrax. That’s hilarious.
I liked the mention of the aftertouch sensitivity. The effect should be gradual and it's fairly disconcerting when it isn't.
The Waldorf PPG 3.0 vsti will have to do for me in this category 😎. But a really great synth indeed!
🐐
@SYNTHPUNKAwesome ✊ Love everything I’ve heard out this thing especially when the Batt gets hold of it!
🦆🦆🦆🍓!!!!!
@@jackduxbury1632 You know he made a video that Groove Sythesis had removed saying that Inhalt had faked the video?
He tried to ruin both Inhalt's and Groove Synthesis' reputation by making false claims.
He does this all the time and it is disruptive to companie's/individual's livelihoods.
**•°•☆Oooh! This Looks Awesome! I'm Gettin' me Popcorn ready as I watch me favourite "Gear Breakdown" guy! Thanks for the upload Mate!! Happy Monday To all and To All, A Happy Monday!!☆•°•**
Love it
Gorgeous looking thing. Not totally out of my price range, I’ve spent maybe 3 times that on modular gear, but too limited for the outlay for me compared to something like my Hydrasynth Deluxe at a third the price. If they ever brought out a plugin version or a less well appointed desktop hardware unit I could be tempted. Hoping this is a foot in the door product for an exciting new manufacturer.
There are dozens if not hundreds of wavetable plugins already, including PPG emulations, no point in a hardware company coming out with software.
@@mvsr990 just saying I’d take a look at if they did bring out a plugin version. Arturia, Korg and others have.
The Waldorf PPG emulation doesn’t have the kind of smooth sounds Nick seemed to be getting from the 3rd Wave, presumably due to that Wave Flow processing.
The sound is amazing, but those wobbly knobs at 3:40 are a deal breaker for me. For $5000 USD, I would expect rock solid pots/encoders. The introductory price of $3795 USD seemed to be more appropriate.
$3795 + tax + credit card fee + shipping were all added on top during the introductory price putting it close to how much you can get it from retailers (when you ask for a discount). Your point still stands. Don’t like that plastic potentiometers were used instead of metal.
@@googlingthevoid Do retailers still offer discounts off MSRP? It’s been a while since I’ve bought anything at a physical store. The last couple times I tried to get a discount at Guitar Center I was shot down.
Why not adding full sample playback and mapping à la Emulator? And combine wavetables to full samples.
A bold move for a first synth 🤠
Muy bien buen sintetizador con mucha potencia sonora y todo el control en las manos sin profundizar mucho..Cuesta lo que cuesta un poco caro de precio...Bien animo con todas las cosas y vayamos todos con alegrias...
My only real complaint with this synth is no user patch storage space. You have to overwrite existing programs currently.
Its very nice otherwise (I have one of the second batch they released).
You can’t multiply a modulator e.g. lfo x aftertouch in the mod matrix?
you dont menshion anymore the lack of definition on filter knob (like on the ob-x8 and all sequential synths) for that smooth with no steping while doing the sing song harmonics
Great to tuck into a Nick B vid in an old-skool presentation.
The 3rd Wave is kinda' the synth that Waldorf should'a made..
Are they any polystyrene peanuts inside the midi out bucket?
I don't mind your sponsorships an adeverts at all, but if you're accepting sponsorships for these vids Nick, you really don't have to give us the disclaimer that the sponsor 'has no say' in the content. your journalistic integrity is possibly the highest of any self described Synth-tuber out there and, as far as I know, no one is calling it into question so there's no need to capitulate to this fad of signaling to the audience that your thoughts and opinions are your own. but please carry on as you please, with or without said disclaimers. just my friendly two bob...😉
hope they use metal pots as cheap plastic pots suck. Would pay more for solid metal pots
It's funny @0:50 how you say "it's obviously very different from what they're doing at Sequential", because when you look at the architecture and layout of the controls, down to the number of LFO's and ENV's as well as the four encoders above the screen, the Third Wave is very close the the Prophet 12. They also sound similar.
Different in the sense that Sequential's thing is primarily analog synths with VCOs, etc. We're using our DSP skills to develop more forward-looking designs. We love Sequential (being ex-Sequential guys ourselves). That said, there are things Sequential will never take on ---- and that's why we started Groove Synthesis. But to your point, our lead DSP engineer, Bob Coover, did the digital oscillators and other digital features of the Prophet 12.
@@GrooveSynthesisMark I agree that this is not the focus for Sequential, or where they find their success. Nevertheless Dave Smith did like his hybrid synths, and the P12 is fantastic - just like the 3rd Wave.
Totally different design. The 3rd Wave was inspired in both looks and sound, by the PPG.
@@SPAZZOID100 Yes and no. The layout and number of the modulations sources as well as how the screen is used (four buttons below, four pots above) is very much like the P12.
@@GrooveSynthesisMark beautiful sounds. But it looks a bit cheap. I know it’s not, but please let Axel Hartmann design the next one? He’s really good at making synths look classy.
It would be cool to recreate the Tom Dolby "Windpower" patch.
I just wish the sequential dudes that made this synth had put as much effort into the Prophet 12 wavetable synthesis.
This is not sequential.
they did but it was another time...
It's an awesome synth Nick, it does what my other gear cannot. 4 multi outs is a dream for me, plenty of knobs, what's not to like?
Great upload, cheers.
I'm just hoping after they are done the "firmware tweak period" they open up a little more patch storage for user patches. I really hate that we have to overwrite the factory programs currently. Otherwise no complaints with mine.
@@raelic3 I am pretty sure if you have spoken to them abt this, they could be possibly working on it.
They're pretty good with customer feedback.
Ahhh… a good enough wavetable synth to supplant my beloved but compromised Blofeld! (interestinque…)
Everything sounds nice but maybe a bit too synthy for myvtaste. Im leaning towards the Quantum Mark2 instead.
I can clearly hear sounds from song Oberkorn from Depeche Mode.
Comparing the Third Wave and M. Third Wave has 3 oscillators, M has two. Both have grungy oscillators (M's specifically model the Microwave I) or higher-fidelity ones. The M offers transients, while the Third Wave has some single-cycle oscillator options and FM. Both have a digital filter (Third Wave is multimode, M's is various filter options) and an analog low-pass filter. Both have an Amp envelope and a Filter envelope. Third Wave has two more auxiliary envelopes, and M has one but it has five stages. Both have a wave envelope: third wave has six stages, M has eight stages. Third wave has four LFOs, M has two LFOs plus a global LFO. Both are 4-part multitimbral. Third Wave has effects, M intentionally has no effects. Both have arpeggiators. Third Wave has a mod matrix, M has per-parameter modulation options (the M is meant expressly to emulate the Microwave I). Third Wave has a built-in wavetable sampler; M relies on external tools. Third Wave has 24 voices, M has 16. Third Wave has lots of nice buttons, better screen, and keyboard. Third Wave is about $5K, M is about $2K.
Its about the grit, the 3rd wave has it, the M not so much. Both are great but they sound quite different.
Yeah, I have to agree with the other guy. As nice as the M sounds, and it does sound nice, the 3rd wave just totally outclasses it sonically.
@@donato77 I have a 30 voice XTK and a third wave, I see no need for the M, lol. It is amazing how good the 3rd wave sounds, not sure how they accomplished that. I do like the XTk a lot but its not even close, which isn't to suprising given the age difference, honestly, I wouldn't sell either one.
@@dodgingrain3695 The XTK sounds more characterful than The Blofeld or more recent waldorfs.
Does the 3rd Wave have a glide parameter? Maybe I missed it.
Yes it does. Not on the front panel though. It's in the Misc menu along with more fun stuff.
very interesting - I wonder how well this compares to something like the quantum or iridium. obviously it's got a few more voices, but feature wise seems pretty similar, with the quantum/iridium edging it out on oscillator features and modulation options - and the iridium undercuts it by nearly £2500 (for the desktop version). I'm not impressed by that supersaw though, sounded quite thin and like a sampled waveform rather than a true supersaw.
I'd also wonder how it compares to cheaper wavetable stuff, notably the blofeld, which has a similar feature set, albeit a significantly cut down front panel (i would say this sounds a lot better than the blofeld, but is it 10x better to reflect the price?).
Interesting but at the cost... phew. I'll continue to dreamof an Iridium :)
Thanks for the Perfect Circuit link: to quickly check the prize and stop watching the video 😅
A Genesis 2.0 machine!👍
Sonicstate something tells me,
Propaganda Split:
Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence
? Correct me if I’m wrong,
Buen aparato
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
If I had the cash I would but as I don't Vital is my friend and just as good if not better with multiple instances.
👍I LOVE ! 💙⚪❤
Sort of synth that lasts a lifetime...
Nick, the patch 'Propaganda Split' is probably named after the German synth pop band Propaganda which were produced in the mid Eighties by Trevor Horn.
For me (especially in a studio setting) a 12 voice 2 part possibly even just 4 octave version without the mediocre onboard effects for around Summit or PolyBrute pricing would have been MUCH more interesting because it does sound lovely.
Sure this thing is cool and I wouldn't mind having one but $$$$ and for that much why small screen
The screen is perfect.
This is 3rd Dimension synth.
18:57 - 19:18
Two words... "Crikey....", "Monstrous...".
That's the visceral response an expensive synth should bring.... 👍
It sounds really good. Way out of my price range, but that's about the only downside to this fantastic synth.
There should be a law against playing Jump on UA-cam.
You are right of course, but I didnt :-)
@@sonicstate - But you were thinking about it. I got my eye on you now 😁😁
Blue synhs can go really wrong, like here in Norway, in the 90s a guy had homestudio in the basement and no problem with wife and changes in setup over time since almost all elpianos and synths looked the same in black. So far so good, but when a blue Yamaha Cs1X showed up even the wife noted something new...ended with phone to Yamaha Norway and the owner told the boss what he meant about this... WHY DID YOU GUYS MAKE IT BLUE... Cool video and synth!
Cool, Men fortfarande inget unikt..bara en i mängden, Levi
Huh? It looks great in blue. I could buy it just for the color alone. No more boring black synths! 😅
@@Am6-9 His wife saw something new=spending more money
Real question: is a synth’s ability to sound like “Jump” a deciding factor for folks? Wrong answers only plz ;)
I don't know. Though I'd be concerned if my synth started jumping
When a wavetable synth costs $5000 in 2023 you know the synth madness has gone wrong. Sure, it sounds nice but so are many other hardware and virtual synths nowadays.
Small company = High Price
we like hardware. Vst’s don’t count.
Amazing how electrically analog all those digital 1's and 0's sound. You could literally buy £5000 of VSTi plugins and possibly have a better sounding digital cough cough analog synthesizer studio's worth of sounds so much greater than the whole of this expensive part.
Looks a bit confusing
I need this to trickle down. Modern digital lost the flair and magic digital once had. As a big appreciator of that late 80s early 90s era of digital synths, the best way I can describe it is that now it's like every company is using stock DSP from the same open source repositories. It all has that same crystalline hifi quality that manages to sound perfectly even and flat really.
Seams it dont have any VCA's
It has an amplifier envelope. So therefore it has a VCA.
@@seanluke3052 No correlation between VCA and amplifier envelope who in this machine are digital and so are the amplification , ie a simple mul + shift. VCA is an "analogue component" requiring a CV who btw not mentioned in the manual nor in interviews with Bob.
@@deadmanwalking6342 I see. So you really meant analog amplifiers. Why? Analog filters can make a difference. Analog amplifiers make very little difference.
@@seanluke3052 VCA's depending on design causes various none linear artifacts due to loading and driving expressing it self as alteration of overtones, so they play a big role in final sound.
@@deadmanwalking6342 I disagree. VCAs, and overdriving them, are one of the easier things to model in a synth. There's a reason VCAs aren't nearly as common in a hybrid synth as VCFs, despite them being *very cheap* to implement in analog.
That Propaganda Split makes me think of Sorry For Laughing.
Sounds wonderful. Its not pleasant to look at unfortunately
I had zero interest in this until this video
Buuuuuttt... I just got my Argon 8! It is british and looks much better 😅
Nice synth, good sounds. But comeon, $5k for a wavetable synth ? No way.
These companies need to stop pandering to the wealthy, and start releasing affordable synths.
They do, but those suck (i.e. Korg Minilogue, etc.).
I may not be rich and this synth would be considered a crazy purchase on my end to justify to my friends that would say I was mad, but I've done crazier things and this synth is special
@ItsThatJahncke2 Tell It brother Beavis.
What kind of car do you drive?
I would never use those waves. They’re only useful in maybe a film score they are not musical they cannot be used in songs.
At this price … ouch. No thnaks
The final sound is mediocre
Nice, but you talk too much!
Shut up!
It's a review, not a performance demonstration. Be a dull review is he just tapped keys and pressed Up button.
That's what she said...