Tech Tip: How To Install Pistols Sights the Old School Way
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- If you frequently change pistol sights, a sight installation tool is a great investment that quickly pays for itself. What if you're just an average "Joe/Jane Gun Owner" or a kitchen-table gunsmith who changes sights once in a while? Or do you have a set of suppressor-height sights that don't fit in your sight tool? Brownells Gun Tech™ Caleb Savant shows us how to install sights the Old School Way, with a hammer, punch, and bench vise. The process is basically the same for front and rear sights.
STARTERS: Put on your safety glasses, and make sure the gun is unloaded. Remove the slide and take out the barrel and recoil assembly. With a pair of padded vise jaws in your bench vise, clamp the slide securely in the vise. Make sure the sight is centered (left to right) in the vise jaws, and it protrudes just above the top of them.
Protect the sight from damage by using a brass or aluminum sight punch. A sight punch's cross-section is cut to fit in the sight dovetail. If you don't have an exact-size punch for your pistol's dovetail, use a smaller punch.
TAKE A WHACK: Let's remove those old sights. If you're working on a rear sight anchored by a setscrew, loosen that screw. Rest the tip of the punch as low on the sight body as you can and apply controlled taps with the hammer. Keep the impact on the dovetail, not on the sight blade. If the sight is stubborn and won't budge, the padded vise jaws may be absorbing too much of the hammer force. Remove the pads and clamp the slide directly in the vise, but put some card stock (like business cards) between the metal vise jaws and the slide.
Steady tapping will work the sight free. Check out Caleb's blacksmith-style hammer technique! Some pistols, like the Smith & Wesson M&P, use the rear sight to retain the striker's safety plunger. Be careful not to lose the plunger.
HONE IN ON IT: A new sight usually needs a little bit of fitting. It should slide into the dovetail at least a quarter of the way. If it doesn't go that far, remove some material from the bottom. Rather than use a file, hone the bottom of the sight with an Arkansas or India stone and a bit of oil. The sight dovetail is a triangle, so as you remove metal from the bottom, you're reducing the width of the dovetail. Test-fit periodically until the sight slides into the dovetail one-quarter of the way.
TAP IT BACK: Remount the slide in the vise, slip the sight into the dovetail as far as it'll go, and start tapping it with the hammer and punch. If the sight stops moving, back off and see if there's a burr or some other obstruction. Keep tapping until you have equal amounts of open dovetail on each side of the sight. If it's a rear sight with a setscrew like the M&P's, tighten the screw.
CLEAN IT UP: The brass punch will leave marks on the sight. A bit of Birchwood-Casey Brass Black or Brownells Dicropan T 4™ Touchup cold blue will make short work of the marks. Apply a little oil to the spots where you put the cold blue.
PUNCHING OUT: Brass punches will get dinged up over time. That's good! It means the punch is taking the abuse, not your guns' sights or slides. You can use a file to remove burrs and nicks to clean up the punch.
0:00 Intro/Tools/Removal
12:00 Fitting New Sights
14:30 Installation
19:20 Cleanup
22:30 Close - Спорт
Smash that like and sub button if you have ever damaged are marred something because you did not have or want to use the specific sight installation tool.
I'm actually ashamed 🤣
Define "Damaged or Mared".
Like safe queen "omg you nicked the finish" or like range "would've been a great shot if I wasn't aiming three targets over" ?
Either way I'll contribute to their proliferation with the like and subscribe features. Just saying
I destroyed so many inexpensive brass punches removing and installing sights. The sanding wheel makes quick work of the marred punch and can easily brings it back up to spec for the next job though.
Caleb, I wish I had this video last year. I watched other people remove M&P sights, but yours was the best. I gotta say those factory sights got destroyed bcuz they were so tight. I ended up using steel punches just to move them. I put penatrating lube first, but no go. It didn't matter bcuz Tru Glo sights were going on my Shield anyways.
What would be a good host to try tons of iron sights when changed a lot? I there like an insert available that makes it easier to change to narrow things down?
Watching you struggle with that sight made me so happy. I have changes the sights on 4 different M&Ps. Not one we’re able to be removed with a brass punch. I have two destroyed brass punches that just mushroomed from me hammering in it against the sight. I have always needed a steel punch to get it started. Luckily I have yet to damage the sight with the steel punch.
be sure the dove tail is not tappered.. sounds odd, but I've ran into it. it will make ya scream.. then comes the flying hammer technic.
Same with my Shield 1.0! I bent the brass punches then went to steel punches finally. I did use penatrating oil first but since I was installing Tru Glo sights it didn't matter if I destroyed the factory sights. Sight pusher tools got messed up too. Those sights are a bear to get out!
I destroyed the front sight on my security 9 and now cat get it off 😂😂😂
I had a S&W handgun that I was changing the sights out on many years ago. I was not aware of the striker safety being under the rear sight. The parts went flying away from me and I had a rough time finding everything. I ended up finding most parts except the spring. I did not have anything on hand that was small enough to fit as a replacement. I contacted S&W about my dilemma, they said no problem and sent me a new spring free of charge. I know these springs are not expensive and at the time neither was mailing one to me, but I still appreciate their customer service and helping me out of a jam.
I found that I have actually been doing this right all along ! ......"You SHOULD care!" gets him an A+ , Great instruction , a little humor ~ Perfect training video!
Well done. 👍
I'm a long retired gunsmith and was trained by old school instructors at the school in Trinidad Colorado. After graduating, I apprenticed under an old master gunsmith for four years for zero pay. (I was a peace officer, and worked in the shop off duty). The man was a longtime gunsmith for the Colt Custom Shop, and was unbelievably skilled. This was in the mid 70's. Everything I learned was old school. And that's not a bad thing at all. 😉
I don't know why but Caleb always reminds me of Ed Warren from the Conjuring movies. Hahaha he gives off super those cool vibes.
Good info. thanks to you and Brownells for the demo.
Caleb you're the best.
Dam... At 8:25 Caleb announces " That one was pretty stubborn." What a gentleman! I would have been much more derogatory. However , I'm about to replace the aftermarket sights on my old Zastava M57 ,back to the original ones. This video is exactly what I needed to see.
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These are the best training video
Great video
This video was a big help and thank you for taking the time to help others.
awesome content great tips and tricks: this content is just in time. I have to admit I have not done pistol sights before. it just so happens, that I am getting ready to do a set in the very near future.
Very nice. Clear, concise, and great attention to the details. I never miss these whether I need the info at the time or not
Caleb Best rocket surgeon ever! Good video
Very good video caleb, nice detail appreciate you
Excellent presentation, thank you.
I know I’m a little late to the show but thank you for all the in depth info. Now I feel confident I can install the trijicon hd xr sights on my Glock 23
The bigger/heavier and more secure your bench vise is, the better. Also, smooth copper or aluminum vise jaws are ideal to get the maximum energy transfer into drifting the sights out vs uselessly oscillating the entire slide with every hammer blow. The more immovable the slide, the better. If you have a rock-solid fixture, you will require nothing but light taps from an 8oz ball peen hammer to drift out even the most stubborn sights.
I understand some slides have removal and insertion orientation.. With my Springfield, as you hold slide in your hand, with muzzle end of slide away from you, removal is left to right, and installation is right to left.
You can usually remove those brass tracks with Windex or an ammonia based window cleaner. The blue stuff.
Timing for this video was impeccable lol just got my rear sight in the mail for my s&w m&p 2.0 9
Great! Thanks much, Caleb.
Great tips. Thanks
Another great video 👍
Very useful video.
Very well done! Before watching I thought I couldn’t do it. Now, I’m sure!
It's funny I just got new sight for my gun and was looking to replace them without a sight pusher. I do love old school methods.
Great tip on using a blueing agent to clean up the brass imprint. It’s a good thing that you mentioned not to drink it -LOL!
Great video 😎👍🏻
Good job Mr Dapper .
More videos like this please.
great vid,, full of usefull info!
I've also used wood to secure my slide for the same kind of install work. Seemed to work ok as a suitable replacement if you don't have pads.
I like the how to videos 👍🏻
great video...
Good Video. Lots of frustration involved sometimes. I have gone as far as freezing the slide.
Thank you for all the videos and the shared knowledge.
Just a suggestion...
It would be really good and easier for us, if the links for the tools used in this video could be made available at the description as well.
Again thank you, for your time, wisdom and for the good prices Brownells!
Cheers, hope everyone have a great week ahead.
👍👍thanks Caleb
High velocity low impact helps tremendously to get it started. Less energy loss on initial impact
M&P's are some of the hardest sights to bang out. I use a screwdriver that fits the space along the bottom. I use a small hammer.
Just to add, some sight manufactures say to file one of the angles instead of the bottom. Removing from the bottom makes it shorter and less room between the top of the slide and the underside of the sight leaf/blade.
I am taking it off the bottom next time
I hope this stays up, its a great video. UA-cam has gotten very strict on what it considered gun modification of any kind.
It'll always be on our website.
I have the M&P and had to drift the rear sight maybe about .2 mm to move the poi. Even that much too 5 really good taps to move it. Looks like once it gets off center it goes alot easier.
You will have to do a front sight that has a tenon post for securing the sight to the slide
Noted!
@@CalebSavant I bought sights from Brownell for my series 70 1911. I was going to get the front sight staking tool, but just too afraid of doing it wrong on my classic Colt. Better to have a experienced 1911 gunsmith tackle this job?
Love to see you try this technique on a Springfield xd lol them suckers are the hardest to move!!!!
thanks
I went to M&P Armorers school, the handguns we used in class were very well used and the rear sights basically slid off, the instructor assured the class that the handguns we will be working on outside of the classroom will definitely put up a good fight. Great video, thank you for sharing!
He was right! My Shield 1.0 was a PITA to remove, even after penatrating oil was put on the dovetails. Destroyed the factory sights, but I didn't care. Tru Glo was being installed.
I would like to suggest that you can also use some tape to hold the cardboard to the vice jaws so it will be easier to keep in place and not have them move around while putting slide into them.
I just got a hellcat pro yesterday took it to have my Night sights installed, and the so-called gunsmith beat the hell out of my front and rear sights. There’s brass all over my brand new gun.
Caleb's disjointed fingers are what brought me to this video
Point taken, that you were trying to show the old school way. But if one happens to have the vice (which is the tool I didn't have for the longest), just press it in with the vice....
TIP: Older S&Ws have 2 plunger/springs under the rear sight, so if your punch stays flat on tenon you're okay, but you can also drift with a large ziplock over e-thing, to catch any boingers.
More How-To videos please
Nice work,I'm always worried I'm going to slip off and scratch the finish when changing out sights. Should you always tap right to left taking them out and left to right when installing?
I wish I knew all of this before I did my sights like 2 years ago. Lol! Bought an expensive pusher and didn't know about sanding them down. 🤦♂️
I need some Brownells Alumihyde, I tried using aluminum black on the inside of an 80% receiver and it wouldn't work. I knew around the anodizing it may not, but the inside is raw aluminum..., The Alumihyde would be better and protect the lower better anyways, plus I can redo my handgun slide as well
Bought all the fancy sight pushers and I still just use a punch and masking tape. M&P’s are definitely super tight though.
That's exactly how I removed my rear sight for my red dot plate. What can I say, I'm cheap!
In removing the factory rear sight on my S&W Shield pistol, I discovered that the set screw on that sight had been set with red loctite. It wouldn't budge. Using a tip from the web, I used a soldering iron to heat the set screw for about 30 seconds, and the set screw came out without a lot of trouble. I used blue loctite on the set screw of the replacement sight.
In fitting the rear sight you took a bit of material off the dovetail bottom of the sight. Has this always worked for you, or have you found times when the base of the sight that rests on the slide prevents the sight from dropping enough to make the cut on the dovetail bottom effective? In such a case, you'd have to remove material from the angled sides of the dovetail.
Not a scientist… just play one on TV lol 😅😂 Keep it up, learning a ton!
A welcome video Caleb, the M&P sights can be a pain sometimes but you made quick work of this. I wish they were all this easy. I'm about to go off, talking bout cases where it isn't easy, maybe my fellow enthusiasts/gonsmiffs/legit smiths can share thoughts.
Have you ever attempted to remove sights that are nearly Fn impossible to remove, even with a pusher or properly sized punches? I'm an armorer for a local shop and have come across a few. We get our tools from Brownells and I use an MGM pusher on the daily, great tool that I've installed hundreds of sights with. But they're not all so easy...
Let me say some M&P front sights are incredibly hard to get moving, esp. their suppressor height sight models. I try and give good solid whacks with your triangular brass punches, but the sights steel actually gets dented/peened due to it just tanking the force without moving. So much for softer metals not being able to damage harder metals 👀 They absolutely can, with relative ease, even, ask me how I know...
We also had a Springfield RO 1911 with an off-center rear sight that I couldn't get adjusted, so we sent it to Springfield, and we get it back with a huge freakin' indent where it looks like even THEY had a bear of a time getting it centered right.
So in these cases, what's a guy to do? Heat the area up? Oil it up? And how the hell do these companies get these sights so tightly driven in in the first place, I'm guessing with some type of specialized press?
Thanks for the kind words and yes. The old Springfield XD sights were like this, in these cases I used a Wilton Machinist vise with custom aluminum soft jaws and a large steel taper punch, the customer just had to be informed that the old sights were no longer going to be useable and they were pretty much always okay with that.
@@CalebSavant Thanks much Caleb. Steel on steel, in a perfectly, 100% supported vise eh... makes sense. If you can recall, what size is suitable for the taper punch?
And in your experience, can heat, or temperature in general aid in the removal of sights? I figure thermal expansion could be a thing with sights and their dovetails, like how BCM handguards require heat to be slipped over the barrel nut? Or, is this exclusive to aluminum? On the other hand, I've heard freezing a sight/slide can make it easier to work with... haven't tried it and am skeptical, but yeah, ever heard of this?
@@lon242 Heat can indeed help but the amount of heat you need is likely to discolor the slide if you're not careful. I haven't tried freezing but the big steel taper punch worked every time. I'm not sure what size, I just grab the largest one that I can fit in the dovetail without damaging the actual slide.
@@CalebSavant Got it, will keep this in mind the next bear of a sight I run into. Have a great end of the week man 👌
use a brass punch and then a air hammer or rivet gun. PS be very very carful i would cover everything other than the sight with wood to prevent possible marring. used this on a friends m&p. it should be your last resort and use two people one on the gun one on the punch for max control. Also from the aircraft world try mouse milk it is a little expensive compared to wd40 but works better at penetration and will go up into a cracks instead of just down so works at all angles.
good luck
Nice padded vice jaws..
Bro, Caleb is out-flanneling my father
I get all my information from Brownells mostly because of their absence of phony "robot speak" or sounding like English isn't their first language. Well done Caleb!
A couple pieces of 4 to 5 oz leather would make a better pad for your vise than the card borad, if your jaws have beep grips it could go through your card stock, my opinion.
Maybe it's just me, but I've never just "Eyeballed" a sight when installing. I measure both sides until I'm within .001 of DNC, (Dead Nuts Center). I picked that up working in the Military as a Weapons Instructor/maintainer and found that a few gun shops I've worked for since held the same standard. True it takes longer, but I've never had one come back and on my own guns, never had one that was off.
You can use a pencil eraser to remove brass marks from the punch too.
Hey fellas, I want to put together a pistol similar to the sig 320 specter comp but I personally prefer glock. Could I put a glock 19 gen five slide onto a 17 gen five frame and put a compensator on it to end up with that same style of the comp not overhanging the dust cover too far? I already have a 17 and and would just buy a 19 so I could swap the slide back and forth between the two, I don't really want to get a 47 since I already have the 17.
Have you ever replaced a pinned front sight? If so, could you demonstrate how?
I had a shop install a set of night sights on a brand new gun . They used a installation tool , marred up the rear sight , And charged me .
A couple of pieces of tape on top of the jaws would hold those paper shims in place and reduce frustration. On the rear you pushed it out left to right, on the front you pushed it out right to left. Does the direction matter?
Man I wish I would of seen a video like this earlier. Recently I sent a local gunsmith my range handgun to install a new set of sights and extract a stripped grip screw. He did a fine job on the screw but once I got the gun home I noticed significant scratches near the sight. He must have been using a steel punch. I have a set of brass punches. If I would of just done a little more research then I would of saved money and my handgun from getting scratched.
What grit stone did you use to remove material from the sights?
What sight do you adjust if your rounds aren't going where the sights say they should be going? Or is it one of those of the sights are dead center left to right then you're good? Obviously I'd run a box or two at the range before I put my life on the line from untested sights.
Would adding Rocksett to the dove tail be a acceptable method of correcting a loos sight/slide interference?
This is how Sig “repaired” my Legion P938 front sight.
they also probably "peened" the grove useing a center punch in the dovetail. your good
Newby question here. Doesn't nice and shinny equal prone to rusting?
No set screw on my new Novak rear mount for S&W SA - Novak’s recommends Loctite 290 green to keep sight in place. Any comments on this?
My brother walked in the garage while drifting out a Glock sight: "Tappy tap taps..." :D
Some sights just are too tight and need the manual method! If you take your time there's no issue. Might sometimes need some solvent if the sight is glued too much also.
Heat may help loosen up
Is there a taper to factory dovetails? Direction to drift out, and in? Some say yes, some no. Help!
I have a Kimber , does it make a difference which direction you push it?
Thanks in advance.
Aluminum plates could be used in the vice as well.
Man really tried to sneak an at4 into that safe like we wouldn't notice
Bob Ross of guns
I use a heat gun before smacking away at the sights. Is that a bad practice?
ASMR moment there removing the brass stains
Me again. So I have a new M&P. After zeroing the optic it is obvious that the irons are off(no it isnt my shooting, the front sight is about 0.020" off center). I have now damaged another punch, and then when using a pusher tool I slightly mushroomed the edge of the sight base(the dovetail). Does any body have any tips before I just hulk on it and potentially break something?
Can you answer a question? What if you have a 1911 with fixed sights, it's shooting low. Can you adjust for that? Or do I have to buy a new rear sight?
I take my pistols to a gunsmith , someone that knows what their doing
I take it pistol sights aren't made to go into and out of the dovetail from right to left like rifle sights? Or is that a smyth?
Why not heat the slide assembly then hit the sight with keyboard cleaner (upsidedown) to freeze the sight for easy disassembly? For install put the new sights in the freezer and heat the slide
What if your front sight is a bit loose ? I heard dimpling the bottom with a center punch
Something to add: If you run into a dovetail that was cut a few .001"s deep or an undersized sight (manufacturing tolerance stack or overzealous stoning) it can easily be remedied by a piece of shim stock made from the appropriate feeler gauge cut to the same size as the sight and "glued" to the bottom of the offending sight. Or peening the bottom of the sight to rase a burr to take up those .001"s. A little grease on the dovetail will also keep the dovetail from galling during installation.
I personally prefer to shim it rather than the peening method.
Can you give me a model number for the stone please.
I use plywood to do that. Work great.
I noticed he didn't have to clean the slot like I did when I put the 2nd set of night Sights on my 35 yr old Glock 22.
I bought a Pedersoli Mississippi rolling block rifle from Cabela's. It shot low. I took it back to Cabala's. Cabala's sent it to a gunsmith. I got the rifle back all well and good. I shot the rifle; the new front sight was lower. I was able to sight in the rifle.. I took the rifle out of the box 3 months later. The front sight and dovetail were encrusted in rust. I removed the front sight and removed the rust. I only had one small pitted spot on the front sight. What did the gunsmith do to cause the rusting? I had oiled the rifle well. I was grateful I checked the rifle when I did.
I feel like this dude was born 50 years late.
Aren’t M&P sight dovetails directional? I’ve had issues with them and sig being that way. Any thoughts on that?
No I checked with them. M&P sights go in or out either way. No so with other manufacturers. But the rear sight is best installed like Caleb did to hold down the plunger and not damage it.
@@mikewithers299 good to know. When I called and asked they told me they were left to right directional. 🤦🏼♂️
@spencerdavis8737 I tried that but mine were frozen in place. Not rusted but firm. I kept looking for the correct way thinking I'm doing something wrong. I tried a sight pusher tool. It got mangled too. Brass punches bent. Finally went with steel punches and it popped out. The whole time I oiled the crap out of it. At that point I didn't care about the factory sights as I was installing Tru Glo. The slide never got damaged. Glad that one is done!