Noisy Banging Flat Roof Problems
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Noisy Banging Flat Roof Problems
If you have problems with a noisy, banging and clicking flat roof, this is something that happens when there are extreme changes in external temperatures. At the beginning and end of the year, I get lots of calls from customers regarding their noisy roofs. The external temperature can drop to around 0ºC at night and rise to 10º - 14ºC during the day, but the surface of the roof may be colder or warmer depending on the solar gain; this is all down to shadows on the roof, the orientation of the roof to the sun and so on. However, what we do know is that the temperature gain is at its greatest in good sunlight. This leads to expansion and contraction of the roof and noisy banging and clicking of the roof, mainly in the morning when it's heating up and in the evening when it's cooling down. We know that the problem exists more with new GRP (Glass Fibre roofs) than with any other type of roof. The problem with GRP roofs is their conductivity, i.e. the way they transfer the heat to and from the materials below. Other roofing systems such as felt and EPDM rubber are less conductive, therefore the swings in temperature are less. We also know that GRP roofs are hard and solid, and therefore very prone to expansion. The GRP trims are long and, when fitted into a wall and sealed together, expansion joints should be used, but we rarely see them.
Another problem could be the fixing used on the roof; if long metal screws have been punched through the roof, could these have an effect? To date we have never had noise problems with a flat roof that has been fixed down with glue or with thermally broken fixings. Having said that, I have never seen a GRP roof fixed down using thermal broken fixing or glue.
Unfortunately after trying many different ways of stopping the noise, and not being entirely successful, the only true way of solving the problem seems to be to have the roof replaced, and to use the correct fixings and less conductive waterproofing membrane, such as mineral felt or a single ply EPDM.
Steven Dickinson
London flat roofing
07802300099
info@londonflatroofing.co.uk
#londonflatroofing
#londonroofsurveyor
#steveroofer
Storm damaged roofs in London.
Roof surveys
Roof surveyor
Roof surveyor
London Roof surveys and inspections
Roof consultancy
Roof consultancy and roof condition reports.
Domestic roof survey
Flat roof condition report
Independent roof surveyor
Leak detection roofing
I want to thank Steve again for the help and advice he gave us last year regarding the noise problems with our brand new GRP roof (I think it’s ours you can hear from 0:53)... it really helped us to decide the best way to resolve the issue and move on from it. As there were no guarantees that remedial solutions such as adding expansion joints would solve it, but would still be very expensive to carry out with scaffolding involved etc, in the end we decided to contract a local roofing firm to strip the GRP and replace with 3 layer felt. Since this was done the roof has been blissfully noise free!
On stripping the roof they noted that the fixing of the top OSB deck was in their opinion inadequate (and not thermally broken) and that many of the fixings hadn’t been correctly screwed in to the joists. They strongly suspected this was the cause for the banging and cracking we experienced during changes of external temperature.
Really hope this video can help others with the same issue, and from our stressful and expensive experience I would strongly urge anyone to think twice about using GRP on a warm flat roof! Our original builder completely refused to acknowledge that the GRP was the source of the noise and in the end ran away, leaving us with little choice but to replace it.
Thanks and glad I could help. Your comments above will help all of us understand this problem hopefully others will post their experiences re this problem
Video and comment is super helpful. Having the same problem on my loft conversion. Original builder being elusive and frankly I wouldn't trust him to fix it right anyways. Coming to the same conclusion that I need to replace the GRP with felt. Will look to do this when solar panels go up. My wife and I thought we were going mad so your comment saved us! Thank you.
Addition of two expansion joints has vastly improved mine. New extension, left it 18 months and no improvement. Cut the roof deck and added expansion joints which I think has removed 80-90% of the noise.
Yes, that seames to be as much as you can do, and your locky to bet such a big reduction
Could you give me information about which grey tape you used to make the new expansion Joint , please? I can see grey tape from 2:07.
Thank you Steve!
I’m getting banging noises from a warm roof with flexitec fibreglass… the banging noise varies but usually are quite loud and can be heard every 5-10 min… I’m in such dilemma as I don’t know how to solve this and none of the roofers seem to be aware of a banging noise with the FlexiTec since it’s not meant to make any noise unlike other grp brands
From my understanding glass fibre is glass fibre it's sold in so many different varieties but generally it's all the same and from my experience. It's not necessarily just the glass fibre that is the problem with the banging. I have people telling me now that they have Felt roofs and rubber EPDM roofs that also bang we are coming to the conclusion that the banging is that they have not fixed down the roof structure correctly. Unfortunately to date we have never been able to solve the problem without completely replacing the roof. However, more fixings tends to make it a little bit less noisy.
Would you recommend on a thick insulated roof then that you stagger the joints when having to put two layers on, or 1 sheet directly over another?
Definitely definitely stagger the joints makes for a really good job
Hi Steve, thank you for taking the time to do all the great vids. I have question regarding grp roof. Q. Is it possible to torch on felt directly over a grp roof that hasn't had the topcoat put on. Due to weather wasn't able to apply topcoat. Matting resin has fully cured (been a few years), now leaking in some places (due to breakdown from UV sunlight I'm sure).
Yes as long as its stable
Thank you for response Steve. Stable? Can you elaborate please. By stable do you mean cured. Also can I torch the underlay directly onto the grp without using the vapour barrier (2 layers and not the standards 3 layer felt method).
@@Saf.y.p Not peeling or flaking. You can torch directly onto it with anything. The GRP is a good AVCL the felt is a good AVCL
@@HampsteadBuildersLt Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query and advice provided. Wishing you continued success for the future and look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Had this my old house, 100mm selotex sandwich between 18mm ply sat on engineer joists, I figured it was the top layer of ply and GRP expanding and contracting and suddenly slipping over the selotex that didn't expand, it was only 5mx5m.
Annoying pops in the morning and Evening.
I don't remember if I left expansion gaps between the ply sheets on the top??
Thanks very much for your comments if enough people with this problem get back to us shortly we can work out exactly what's going on
@@SteveRoofer when you cut the roof did you cut through the ply or just the GRP.
We were gonna top coat ours White to reflect the heat, but moved before I got the Chance.
@@dancingfrogsxb1276 we cut the ply and the GRP. Painting the roof white is not always a good idea as that stops the solar gain and can make the roof colder and therefore more chance of interstitial condensation
Hi Steve, regarding flat roofs....can you double skin EDPM (one over the other) If so how would you bond them together? Thanks
I've never overlaid EPDM rubber however if I did I would've just glue it down
Hi Steve,
I’ve also had similar problems described in your video and in the comments, on a year old extension with GRP flat roof.
In addition to the this, the extension gets unbearably hot and humid in the summer months. It’s south facing - but I’m sure it shouldn’t get this hot…
Looking back at photos of the build, it looks as though my builder constructed a warm deck roof, but then also added insulation between the joists pushed up to the deck. I also can’t see any visible ventilation on the roof (but perhaps I just haven’t spotted it?). Do you think this construction would would be causing issues around the room temperature?
Thanks, P
Unfortunately I don't know but I would guess that no it won't make a defence
I had a fibreglass rep tell me its from PIR boards with foil on both sides. He said all warm roofs should have the PIR with a tissue paper side to avoid cracking. Sounds like a big swerve
Nobody is quite sure however if you read through some of these comments and I've pinned the top comment to the top of this we are starting to definitely see that it's down to the fixings more than anything
Thank you for this video Steve - very helpful.
We have exactly this problem with a GRP roof we had done by builders on an extension 5/6 years ago. The roof also has a skylight in it with two steels supporting this. We had some water leaks in it and have overlayed a single layer of felt. We get the sun first thing in the morning and then lose it on the roof from about 2/3pm.
We get these very loud popping noises. In the winter the noise may happen once a day or not often. In the summer it gets much worse. It can be ever few hours or it can sometimes be every 15/20 minutes.
Apart from scrapping the GRP off and checking all the boards are secured etc and replacing with 3 layer felt is there anything else you suggest please to fix this?
We are actually not based far from you. We are Elstree way.
Thanks,
Simon
Well if you look at the comments you'll see there's lots of people with this kind of problem with noisy GRP roof is unfortunately today nobody has been able to solve it correctly however we do think it is the top layer that is causing the problem and we do think it's that it has not been fixed properly we also think that GRP does not help unfortunately I can't give you more information than that however reading through the comments below Will probably give you a good idea of what you're up against
Steve, what flat roofing material would you recommend in place of grp? I am interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks
EPDM rubber
@@HampsteadBuildersLt brilliant epdm it is then, thanks, and keep up the great videos!
I have the same issue and I have some sought how to resolve it.
I noticed the bigger the roof more obvious cracking noise is. Logically it happens because of shrinkage/contracting due to temperature change. As GRP attached to osb rigidly it does not have flexibility. Is nothing to do with osb as it is laid loosely (only nailed/screwed). It is the fact the grp is rigidly attached to deck in vast area. You need to add expansion joints to grp and not to the deck itself.
Have got a warm deck roof, with felt, and it's making the same noise as described in the video. They put ample fixings in, chalk lined where the joists were.. I believe it could be that they didn't put a vapour barrier on top of the sub deck underneath the insulation as one comment below has suggested. The only solution i can think of is to paint the roof with reflective paint, that or start again (i dont want to do that, its over 100sqm and only did it last year)
Got this exact same issue. Planning to retrofit 2 expansion joints and possibly add additional fixings. Hoping we get some improvement. If not, then long term will strip and have it felted long term.
Keep me updated on how you get on with the expansion joints
Why not EPDM instead of felt?
Id say the top deck wasn't fixed down correctly. I like to fix all the way through and into the joists.
Yes definitely the fixings have to go right though
I’d agree with you Ross. Fixing ply on top of insulation is always problematic, there’s just no need.
I'm looking at doing a warm roof in the next year on my own house what's the best way to avoid this happening? Plenty of fixings and would you use an expansion foam tape where the roof meets the wall before the resin is applied?
I'm assuming a tongue and groove interlocking board may also be better as well
We always use tongue and groove boards we also make sure that we leve a10 mm gap around the edges and making sure we use plenty of fixings fixings we use are thermally broken
Is the noise a sign of deeper problems? Or if we don't mind the noise, it doesn't matter? It's not as bad as those in the video
Thanks Steve. I have the exact same problem with my roof. Its about 5months old and is a warm flat roof (GRP). Happens as soon as the sun hits it.
Have you been able to find a definitive cause?
Was hoping you could do one of you detailed workshop vids and try and replicate the issue 🤞
Yes noisy GRP roof is a more common than one may think some people put up with it and don't actually recognise it as being a problem other people it really gets on their nerves and they get hyper sensitive and have to do something about it personally I just couldn't live with it even the clicking of central heating pipes sends me crazy squeaking floorboards send me crazy my house is silent my house it's got insulation everywhere I certainly couldn't put up with a noisy flat roof
@@SteveRooferI was about to go for a GRP but this has put me right off. Even if I put expansion gaps and use OSB 3 tongue and groove, I think EPDM is less risky. Those noises would drive me crazy.
@@plummetplum EPDM is the better product all round and is cheaper
Hi steve we have the very same problem could you tell me what the tape was you chap was using , it looked to be self adhesives then just top coat over it ?
I used to be woken up each morning by a banging noise on my flat roof above my bedroom in my loft conversion. I quietly opened one of the skylights one day and peeked up there. Turns out it was a crow that kept landing there and flapping about! 😂 I've had others tell me the same thing in the past.
I think that's a very good point. I actually have crows dancing on my roof making a lot of noise but I have been able to work out. That's what it is not the banging the next time I'm talking to a customer I will bring that point up
All flat roof make noises and that's all... Some people notice some don't.... I tried everything and still making some noise.... I think we have to live with it... Last thing I'm going to do it's to add acustic wool between the rafters hoping that this would reduce the noise even tho I have alot of insulation as it's warm flat roof 🙂
Also I think the insulation makes noise the aluminium touching the membrane
No vapour barrier on top of the sub deck underneath insulation that’s why you getting the noises 100% 👍🏾
can you explain further please, am having the same issue...
Done dozens of GRP rooves, most issues are caused by chippies incorrectly fitting osb , not the roofers .
Yes that's what we belive
In this case it should be the same issue with other types of roofs like felt, epdm you name it.
😂
I like your videos. Great information and your passion and dedication shows through, which makes it engaging. Thaf said I find it difficult to keep up with written words. They often come and go too quickly, especially if you're also speaking over them and they don't actually reinforce what you're saying. Keep the knowledge coming in any case!
Thanks for coment and for your interest yes interesting video to do as it is all to do with sound and I had to put a lot of written words on there but I'm with you it wasn't the best way of doing it speak soon
I get a far less extreme version of that...I was in a hurry (my own job, was urgent build, office) and didn't leave a 3mm gap between OSB or PIR 😒150x50 joists @ 400 ctrs, membrane, 18mm OSB 8x4, 100mm PIR, 18mm 8x2 T&G, 3 layer hot felt. Creaks for around 1 second when sun up, then 1 second later when cooling. Doesn't always do it, but I might setup a mic and see how often it really happens.
You do a great service Steve 👍
I would love to listen to the noise if you would like to send me a recording. As regards a 3 mm gap we're not sure that would solve the problem.
I think it’s quite simple, the fixing of the ply to the joist was probably nailed only. It should be screwed and glued.
Screwed definitely
We used 250 timberlocks thought the warm deck directly to the fearings/joist with 300 distance. Im sure the cracking noise coming from the grp itself!
How did GRP ever get put on roofs. Worst system ever
Yes this has been a very good marketing and advertising campaign by suppliers of materials that were properly surplus in the first place