Are Aftermarket Triple Clamps Worth It? - JWalk's Tech-Talk!
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- Опубліковано 6 бер 2023
- Aftermarket triple clamps provide some pretty incredible advantages over their stock counterparts, but are they worth the high price tag? Let's talk about it!
Check out Luxon's Triple Clamps! www.luxonmx.com/
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@JeffWalker84
#ProMotocross #Motocross #KTM - Спорт
More like this. Really simplified the understanding of this critical part for a newer rider. Thanks
I wanna learn about motor mounts! Also, what are you doing for your 2023 Chassis? I have the same bike but I think they only make a clamp up to the 2022 model. Great content, let me know, thanks!
As a former b class rider who hasn’t rode in over 3 years due to health issues still love these videos! Hope to be back it someday when health allows. Once i got on big bikes and started picking up the speed and being a more lightweight rider, aftermarket triple clamps were not always a must but could definitely tell a difference.
This definitely needs to be a regular series. Lots of good insight to aftermarket products that provide more options for weight reduction and performance increase!
Absolutely would like to see more tech videos of this caliber. I cannot understate how well everything flowed together from start to finish. Good mix of basic info with vital "higher" technical points and suspension theory. Saying what you did about bringing a product on board means a lot, it's hard to trust what most channels are saying about products who's company they are indebted to. Fact is, it's on us as a community to know who is who, who's bs and who's not and hearing what you said is definitely a big deal. Really enjoy the honesty, transparency, knowledge, and self made Michigan badassery. 👊✊✊🤘🤘
I agree 100%. I'm glad you posted this. I have been preaching it since I upgraded my bike this year. I added the factory Husky clamps to my TC 250, some titanium, and a torque wrench. I'll tell you what. My front end has never felt so calm. It's crazy. Love the tech talk. Keep it up!!
Day 89 of Cheering on Jeff: GO JEFF!
Day 4 go Jeff
Day 5 go Jeffrey bezos
Awesome video Jeff, I'm 25 and never raced motocross or had a dirtbike as a kid growing up and I wish like hell I would have...I grew up in a family of professional Ice hockey players, so growing up I was a hockey player and golfer in the offseason....but I've always loved MX/SX and just never got into the sport growing up looking in from the outside. Your story of never giving up and making it up into the pro nationals are a big reason why I'm hooked and getting into motocross this summer when I get out of the military...I'm looking at getting a 250 4 stroke and just really excited for the journey of learning proper techniques, getting better and faster overall...I can't wait! I think these videos where you dive into the technical stuff on the bikes will be really badass and will only help me out in the future as I'm looking to get better....along with others out there who are trying to make a living in the sport one day. Congrats on all your success thus far, and good luck this season my man! I'm really excited for when the Pro National outdoor series comes out to SoCal! I'll definitely be there.
Would like to see handlebars. Twin wall vs fat bar pros and cons from your experiences
Planning it soon! That will probably be the next tech talk video
@@JeffWalker84 Is that why you have Fatbars on the practice bike and Twinwalls on the race bike in this video?
This series is going to blow up
I just started watching you yesterday but you're already my favorite motocross youtuber also more of the tech talk its great to hear from somebody with a pretty good idea of what is actually helping explain these terms so I can decide whether or not these are worthwhile upgrades, keep up the great work.
Would love to see a video on frame mounts, especially in regards to the new chassis. Enjoyed this video and your presentation 👍🏻
Great video Jeff. I love my Luxon clamps and as an engineer myself I really respect Billy’s approach to developing his products. Luxon is doing it the right way !
As someone who races mx and super moto, I can confirm the absolute difference triples make in the handle of a bike. Specifically the turn in and chop of the front end
Well ya when you change the offset or degree of rake... you trade turn in for stability and vise versa. Raising and lowering your fork clamps can greatly change this as well... only a few mm at a time it can be durastic. and make the bike unstable. Need to re check sag after as well
One of the best mods I have done was change the Triple Clamps and offset on some bikes. They went from pushing in the corner entry to tracking where I aimed them. I just purchased the Bar Mounts from Luxon, well made for sure.
You can trade turn in for stability by raising and lowering your fork clamps as well. Only a few mm at a time. It can be durastic.. re check sag after as well.
Sir, the frame is slightly crooked but I'm here for the tech tip action.
84.1% of viewers wouldn't have noticed, but now they will :(
@@JeffWalker84 Sorry sir
Love to see a tech talk with jwalk about wheels for sure
could you do a vid on engine components and stuff like head porting and ecu's? im in the process of rebuilding my bike top to bottom and i did some mods that im not to sure of but keep hearing good things about them from people, great vid!!!! definitely need more of this level of content !!
Such an insightful video, considering new triple clamps after this!
I'm a decent 40 year old rider.
Love my xrtrigs. They don't make me faster but they make things smoother. You CAN tell. Fatigue is real.
Love your videos Jeff keeps me busy through the days
Thanks man I'm glad to hear it!! Hope you enjoy this one
Thank you! I learned a lot from this video 👊🏽
Thanks Jeff more tech talk with jwalk
Loved this video man!! Please to more!!
Nice perspective Jeff!
Love it. Keep ‘em coming.
Yeah good stuff thank you jay. This will help me out big time with the new bikes
More of these please!! What about suspension for a newcomer coming into motocross racing locally thanks
Loved the vid, maybe next Tech Talk with J Walk you could bring a guest or like someone from the company to help explain?
love these tech talks
thanks for the video! Good stuff
Good job big man... I am interested in your Engine Mount tech tip.
If you are an average rider there isn't a shortcut to be miraculously faster. Good technique and lots of seat time is your best option....and it's free!!! Don't waste money on parts thinking it's going to give you massive gains. If you have money to burn, then sure, you can make your bike LOOK cool....look pro go slow😂😂😂😂
Great Video great job Jeff 👏👌👍
Great job good series!
Very informative!
Great video--very informative.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Dude I remember you replied to my comment like 2 years ago about this exact video😂🤦🏻 nah I’m glad it’s here tho I’m on my rod to Loretta this year
would like to see a tech talk with j-walk on handlebars or tires
Muito bom ouvir alguem que ja testou e tem experiência. Abraço do Brasil.
I’m just getting off a broken wrist on my new 23 ktm. I think I’m going to try the mako 360 before a set of clamps though if im having issues
I would love a video like this on handlebars
Man i must be in the dark bc i never heard of these maybe i should try these. I currently dont have a bike and im wanting a ktm hopefully if things work out ill have a couple ktms this spring.
You should make a tech-talk video about tires and the tires You use.
Think im gonna maybe try these luxon
I like the split clamps. Let’s rigid feel
this is sick, can we get one on drive train weight, or engine mounts.
Love.these videos
20mm offset made the bike fall in ruts and turns. 22mm had a wider turn radius but turned more predicably
You have your trail mixed up. Increasing the distance of offset, for example, 22 to 24 mm, reduces trail and creates less stability. Go look at your schematic again. Your head tube line stays put. When you extend your offset you are moving the wheel axle away reducing the distance from the point on the ground to your head tube line reducing trail. Or think about it this way, pretend your offset is a lever, more offset the more the ground has leverage over your steering.
I fully understand that more offset = less trail, but physically what you feel on the track is more stability regardless of what is theoretically true. Plenty of articles to support this claim in the moto world!
From what I understand a little, most of the effect is mainly manifested in motocross, or fast riding. What about technical enduro riding, which is usually slow? Do you think there is a need for adonized triple clamps vs the regular one's (ktm xcw vs six days) ?
The “factory” ones are engineered differently to a higher price point so will always be an upgrade. The EXC/XCW triples are stiffer for smashing through rocks and roots at speed and perfectly fine for that. The factory ones are engineered differently and look blingy. Probably better if you’re at the point you’ll be able to tell. Depends.
Have you noticed any difference in running the motul oil? Any difference on how clean it comes out or how hours you get out of it over motorex?
I’ve run both and now running Motul as we can buy it cheaper in bulk. Used Motul for years on my CBR600 track bike, comes out as lurid looking as it goes in. Without oil analysis it’s hard to say back to back. Either high spec oil changed frequently would be fine. You could squeeze an hour either way but dirt bikes only hold a litre or so of oil. There’s nowhere for the contamination to go Vs a larger bike like a 600-1000cc bike that hold 3-4L of oil. More often with half decent oil is better than less with better oil.
Be interesting hear if any idea why bikes changed to 22/23mm offsets now vs 15-20 years ago some bikes like ktm ran 18/20mm.
confused on the offset info.. if as he said, a honda was twitchy with 22mm offset, how would 24mm offset make it LESS twitchy, less offset say to 20mm would make a bike more stable but not turn as quickly in tight stuff? am i way off base or not understanding this?
good stuff
are you going to be at round 1 of outdoors?
i want to get my dad to an mx race and my mom and her boyfriend to sx because i went to A1 with my dad and Fox Raceway 2 with my mom and her Bf
loving the videos man
That’s the plan right now! Hope to see you guys out there
Gen 3 in red for my 06 CRF450 please :)
Wait.. I think you got it backwards. Decreasing the offset increases caster trail which will be more stable. What you might be experiencing with the longer offset is the benefits of increased wheelbase. But you are actually making the front end twitchier which is why you feel the need for the stabilizer. There is also a “camber” effect happening which will increase the force needed to get the bike to stand up after you’ve initiated a turn. Hit me up if you want to talk about this in more detail I think we could come up with some good stuff for you test! I don’t think many people have gotten too in depth with this stuff in the dirt bike world.
I researched the topic before making this video and fully understand how it theoretically is supposed to work! More offset = less trail = less “auto-centering” effect. It was just way too much to explain in a video that isn’t solely dedicated to fork offset. While more offset theoretically should make the bike less stable, in practice it’s the opposite. Probably because reducing the offset is essentially the same thing as moving your engine forward which puts a lot more weight on the front end. There are a lot of theories, but I don’t think anyone has fully nailed it down yet
@@JeffWalker84 I wouldn’t say it’s the opposite. Physics is physics. I’d be really interested to know what you’re experiencing when running the shorter offsets that make you say it’s less stable. We can probably figure out what’s causing that effect and help you improve your setup.
My riding isn’t good enough to run these tests but I’m good with understanding the math part of it. I’m actually a suspension engineer so I love this stuff, wish more research was there on the dirt bikes but the money just isn’t there unfortunately compared to other forms of racing!
@AYanez27
Think of a shopping kart wheel & the fork/clamp offset at the stem. More offset has a more "self centering" factor like a shopping kart wheel.
So although the lesser offset clamp makes for more trail, it reduces the "self centering" ability.
@@keithpeterson6108 sorry you got the right idea but your geometry is off. Take a picture of your bike and draw a line from the steering tube to the ground. It hits the ground in front of the contact patch(like the shopping cart wheel). When you increase offset you decrease this distance and with it the self aligning force.
If the line landed behind the contact patch the bike would be unridable. The reason the steering tube can be behind the forks on a dirt bike unlike the pivot point on a shopping cart is because the steering tube angle is so large and the tire is so tall.
@@motofreak2772
Your missing how the head tube angle (head tube angle on the frame) & the forks being ahead of that want to self align & stay there (when the forks are straight).
When turned off center, the trail at the bottom wants to make the steering "flop" to the side.
When the bike is leaned over, the trail make the bike want to flop/roll over into the turn. The fork offset (when straight & the bike ISN'T leaned over) makes the bike want to stay on center & is more stable than with less omfork offset.
More offset is more stable & makes the rider have to put more effort into leaning the bike over to turn.
Less offset is less stable & takes less rider effort to make the bike lay over for turns.
I've played with different offset clamps & what I described that happens, does indeed happen. Even with zero adjustment up front, rear sag has an affect as well.
THANKS
The change in torque spec has to do with the ti bolts only. The amount of clamping force on the fork tube is actually the same even though the torque is different. The stiffer bolts just achieve clamping force more easily, hence the reduced torque. How much clamp force you need is purely based on preventing the forks from slipping which is equivalent between a stock and aftermarket triple clamp.
The friction coefficient of the titanium bolts accounts for some of the reduction in torque spec, but swapping to a split-clamp setup vs the stock solid clamp also does require less clamping force to keep the forks in place. For example, the stock upper clamp calls for 17nm whereas the split-style XTrig upper clamp calls for 15nm even with standard steel bolts
@@JeffWalker84 Just trying to give some more insight! Yes in the case of x-trig what you’re seeing is the difference in preload force just to get the clamp to close. Because it’s split and likely thinner you need less force to bend it.
But the actual force that is squeezing the fork tube is the same so how much you’re deforming the fork is the same.
@@JeffWalker84 You know a lot about this stuff though Jeff. I thought you studied biology or pre-med lol? Sounds like engineering would have been right up your alley!
I started off in Biomedical Engineering, but then discovered that the curriculum didn’t cover a few extra classes that I needed in order to apply to medical school. So I either would have had to take a couple extra classes, or switch over to Biology with a minor in Chemistry. I ended up going with the latter. I still had to take physics 1 & 2, then chose to take advanced physics as an elective!
@@JeffWalker84 Nice! I went the traditional mechanical engineering route but I did take a biomechanics elective. Thought about going into the biomedical field but fell in love with vehicle dynamics and suspension design my senior year! Been at it for 8 years now... How about you are you still planning to go back for med school or are you riding out the UA-cam wave as long as you can?
Hey Jeff great breakdown on the Triple Clamps, Luxon does not make clamps for my 2007 CR-250 can you please recommend another good quality brand that would help my bike handle better, I mostly ride off-road , trails and desert ..Thank much appreciated
That’s an awesome handling bike, I had a few of them. You don’t need different clamps. Get the suspension balanced and find the right shock spring and set sag. Shock revalve helps at that stock shock is a pogo stick. Bike handled great in the 102-105 sag range
@@AlexStauber-wr6qq Thanks Alex, I will try it out
Are you going to be racing outdoors this year
Need luxonmx make a set clamps for 2022/2023 TMs
How about:
Rear axle forward vs. to the rear
Large CS sprocket vs small
Footpeg position
Rekluse vs OEM
Aftermarket ignition vs. OEM
Engine mounts
Ti vs. steel axles
High compression vs. OEM
Race gas vs. pump
I don't understand how reducing the steering trail with an increased fork tube offset would increase stability. Sounds backward to me.
It’s definitely confusing, as logic would tell you that reducing trail should decrease stability, but the real-world effect is the opposite. Once again, there are some great videos out there that explain it better than I ever would be able to!
@@JeffWalker84 There's a lot of youtube videos about mountain bike fork offset and they've all said that reduced offset increases stability, none that say the opposite. I've not found one for motocross bikes besides yours. Link if you have one.
I wanted to hear what u felt directly and what offset ur at ik u don’t wanna give away secrets but u should be confident that u can beat someone w the same bike as u
I've seen so many of these clamps break that it really has me steering away from them. However, I get it
We've only ever had two sets of clamps break, one was from a big crash and the other was incorrect installation/maintenance and a very hard hit. We've also since updated the clamps to be a little tougher since then. A couple of bar mount bolts have broken too, but those were all from big crashes and are a quick and cheap fix to get up and running again. We've never had anything break under normal use (hard riding and minor crashes) that was installed and maintained correctly.
I can’t speak on anyone else’s experience, but what I do know is I have almost 100hrs of pro motocross on these with zero issues! I’d have to assume there was improper installation with the clamps that broke. I fully loosen and re-torque mine every few rides🤙🏼
@@LuxonMX is one of those referring to ripper822 at Arlington a couple weeks ago?
@@codymarquez4552 Yes, Ripper was running an older set of clamps that had previously been through some really big crashes. He had another big crash at Arlington that caused the pinch bolt to break. When that bolt goes, the whole front of the bike comes off, which is an unfortunate feature of the KTM pinch bolt style design.
Have you tried the GEN-3 clamps yet?
jwalk! what are you currently using for knee protection right now?
CTi off-the-shelf mediums. (Not custom fit)
Do they make a tripple clamp for 52mm cone valve?
No, sorry. Just not enough demand for them
Awesome video thank u! Are the KTM factory triple clamps worth it or should go with something else? WP race suspension worth the cost?
Could this be holding back Ken Roczen's bike?
Idk how I feel about thr Luxons I watched a head tube snap on em
whats your take on ripper822 having a set of luxon triples breaking on him at arlington this year? i was initially impressed with luxon and the info they came out with, but seeing a set break on a local riders bike has me hesitant. even more so when luxon showed face on the posts about it but didnt have anything to say in the comments as far as helping or having an answer for the breakage.
Ripper's bike broke because he had a huge crash after having multiple crashes previous that stressed the stem clamp bolt. That bolt broke in the latest crash, which caused the whole thing to let go. He was also running an older revision of the clamps; newer ones are a little more resilient to crashes and improper torque. We called Ripper just after it happened and sent him a new set of clamps at no cost. We're writing a blog post about the whole thing now that will be live soon!
@@LuxonMX awesome to see both the logical explanation and the great support / response to the situation.
What about motor mounts
How does luxon compare to xtrig ?
definitely is, Neken SFS triple clamps is the best
Handle bars next
Tripple clamp master class
"if you wanna drop a couple hundred bucks on a cool looking set of triple clamps".....
try 800 bucks without bar clamps or 990 with bar clamps
🥳🥳🥳
Day 1 of cheering on jeff
Simulations are real as a Bug Bunny cartoon. It's all in your head.
$990????????????????
23
Hi
I was first
burger man with the dub
You said a couple hundred really!
first
I prefer the Yamaha feel
Fantastic product but over 900 usd not sure the majority of people will want to spent that much on that product even if its worth it ..
X-trig will be an Oppertunity. But i d'ont know the Price in USA. In Germany they cost ca. 350€
@@joerglukas6663 I will be looking in Eu for xtrig if I can find a clean used set it would be better for me
The flex feel is nothing but a gimmick. That aluminum is going to be stiff AF even of you bottom out, plus you have top and bottom bolted together through the frame and the fork tubes. It will be rock solid. The only way you feel a difference is through the frame, if you get a different offset than stock since each end of the bike acts like a lever on the frame, there is some flex there but we are talking almost nothing since the clamps are only adding 2mm extra leverage at most. The reason to buy these is if you want to change the offset from stock to improve cornering and stability.
How noticeable is triple clamps for someone whose a D class rider lol
Who is he...never heard of him
Sorry. I thought covid was the height of propaganda. Luxon has quite a marketing dept
The different feel is in your head
Changing offset is definitely noticeable. Your flex argument, not so much😊
Lost me at 5m
No
can i have one of your dirt bikes
Obviously they are worth it, they pay you to say that duhh
Luxon makes a good product but the owner has issues. Ive seen on multiple occasions him private messaging competitors to put them down and talk poorly of their products. Like, why so insecure bro?
Perhaps you're confusing me (Billy Wight of Luxon) with one of our competitors? I've only ever direct messaged a competitor once, and it was in response to a message they sent me. Shoot me an email and I'll send you the screenshot. It's quite the other way around from what you have it actually!
A couple hundred 😂😂😂
Ok guy….. we all know how much triple clamps cost. Nice try though 😂😁
Literally one of the worst clamps ever to be manufactured.