Ultramobility - I like it, interesting design! But your concern about the weight is warranted. I’m not as concerned about the safety as much as I am about maintenance issues. The weight being at vehicle capacity is going to cause additional heat, wear and tear, and stress on every vehicle component. Been there, done that, very expensive. Having worked in the cellular phone industry the wiring cabinet you showed sent a chill up my spine, whomever allowed THAT mess to go out the door should be reassigned or terminated immediately, that mess was inexcusable. The price was a plus! But the price also explains every negative issue you mentioned. I’ve come to believe if you save money up front, you’re going to pay dearly throughout the life of the RV in repair, and maintenance costs as well as ruined trips or vacations. This coach reminds me of one of my worst purchases ever, a Winnebago that ruined EVERY trip due to an assortment of failures. Your concern about the sturdiness of the shower was also spot on. However having used a flexible plastic roll up shower door in an Airstream... that’s a non issue. Those seemingly flimsy shower doors actually work! LOL!
Minute 7:00 You should have stopped the review. God forbid I wanted to carry myself at 215 plus a significant other at 150 lbs I need to start dumping water...😂😁😁 If it weren’t sad it would really be funny. Thanks for pointing out how careless this manufacturer is! No one else in the industry is pointing this out.
With duallys in the rear, there is no way the OCCC is less than 700lb unless they built that body shell out of 3 inch steel. The naked chassis must easily be able to carry >6,000lb per Mercedes with a GVWR of almost 12,000lb. How could the fiberglass coach itself weigh over 5,000lb? I think your information or their information is just wrong-- off by a decimal.
@@Ultramobility Agreed...most buyers are unaware of this. And dealers won't tell you about it. All those nice yet heavy materials add up. But MB and Ford do really need a more robust yet fuel efficient platform for RV outfitters with at least 12,000 lbs GVWR. I guess we are all waiting on the E-350, 450 to finally die...lol
A very thorough and complete review - well worth the time spent watching. A person learns alot about RV build quality watching the reviews by Ultramobility which is an asset for anyone considering buying. Thanks for a job well done!
I was researching the 2018 Thor Axis / Vegas 24.1... for its size... and their brochure only talks about GVWR (14,500) and GCWR (22,000). I like that it can also tow 8,000lbs. I'm learning all the terms and what the specs mean. So what would be the Axis / Vegas' OCCC? Going to an RV Show in a few weeks so trying to learn what stuff to look for other than visual aesthetics. You have the BEST walk-through videos... detailed info, very steady, wide-angle, plus you putting yourself in the space. Thumbs up!!!
Love the external storage and the protected tanks and water lines. The deal breaker though is that there is no capacity to carry weight of cargo! What good is a camper if you have space for cargo but no carrying capacity!
Really good review -- and glad you're branching out beyond Class Bs. I've learned more about Class C particulars to look for. Too bad about the other issues, but I think your reviews will make a difference in the long run. BTW, I continue to be really happy with my PW. No quality issues. No issues period.
It’s a lovely coach and very nicely designed but the negative cargo weight knocked it right off my list. Thanks for another great and informative video!
I watched the review in it's entirety. Your concluding comments were quite puzzling however. If the OCCC is negative, that means I paying $100,000 + for a Class C RV, but when I pack the vehicle to leave on a trip, I can't bring anything but the clothes on my back? What good is all the storage if I can't carry anything with the vehicle being overweight. Im confused.
The Tiffin Wayfarer is famous for providing tons of available storage to go along with ounces of cargo carrying capacity. But the Sprinter is a stout platform, and I am sure that there are after market suspension components that will enable you to increase those numbers, ie Sumo springs, air bladders, beefier anti sway bars, and such. The rub is that Tiffin should be incorporating these components themselves.
third cat is right: it's about everything mark brings up plus the things that third cat brings up. it's a totality of the vehicle's capability to carry cargo weight.
I think that with the ability to tow, and therefore stop with close to 5,000 additional pounds, the engine, trans, and brakes are more than capable of handling the weight, we're you to upgrade the suspension, provided you subtracted any additional on board weight from your towing figures.
Thanks for thorough review of this coach which per their brochure touts as being top quality. Putting aside the fact that your available free weight capacity is in the negative range, the quality of their workmanship is very poor (some might say that it’s at the level of the Chinese). The rat’s nest of wires is embarrassing. If one of my kids did something like this, they would have received a lecture from me about doing it right and then they would have been made to do it til it was right. To me, this suggests that management simply doesn’t care about quality workmanship as long as it works. I believe you can tell about a company and their product when you turn your attention to the small and maybe not so visible details. If they are short-changing their customer there, imagine what they may be doing in areas not so easily accessible. Your frank and honest reviews hopefully are putting companies on notice that their shoddy workmanship is no longer acceptable. And, I agree with you re: warranty. Perhaps customers should view the one year warranty as a warning as to quality. If you have a quality product, then it seems only reasonable that you would stand behind it for years to come. Remember the old saying “Solid as Sears”? Apparently Tiffin hasn’t for their Class C/B+ rigs. Keep up your reviews. Excellent work, Neal.
really appreciate this comment. thank you catherine. I'm trying to shed light on some of these issues even if the manufacturers and some dealers aren't happy with me doing it. for the record, Happy Daze RV has been great to work with as they allow me to use their lot and never interfere with my reviews.
If your going to be doing more class c videos would you consider taking a poke at the jayco melbourne/melbourne prestige. They have a similar floor plan to this in the 24k or 24kp. They are also the only manufacturer I know of that gives you the option of a c or a b+ front cap on the same unit. They look good on paper but I've not seen OCCC info anywhere about them and I wonder how much substance their is behind the good surface appearance.
You are the only person on UA-cam that mentions the OCC. Often when I ask the dealer or manufacturer UA-cam channels about OCC, they ignore my question!
i don't get it. it's a really important rating that everyone needs to be aware of. it affects not only your safety but the safety of others who are sharing the road with you.
@TheAmpfixer - it's a great question. i'll have to call my insurance company and see. I suspect if they find out that you were overweight whether or not you knew they could have an out.
This is a pretty big rig. Have you considered to review the two smaller BT Cruiser floor plans, the 5210 and 5230? They are smaller and way cheaper. It would be interesting to have your opinion about the build quality and specs.
What a shame that the quality is just not there. Weight capacity is a big big issue. Thank you for the fantastically honest review! Looks most certainly can be deceiving.
This coach works for me because I always travel with a dozen fully inflated weather balloons. Just fill that propane tank with helium and I'm good to go.
thank you. i had to wing this one because the dealer we had previously cleared to review a set of 3 rvs with pulled out at the last minute while we were filming on their lot! happy daze to the rescue! thank you happy daze!
Hi Neil! I have a quick question for you. Is it possible to add seat belts to seating areas inside an RV so that more passengers can travel securely? Hope you can answer my question. Thanks
you could do it after market but you'd want to get it certified with the department of transportation so that your insurance company will likely recognize it.
I see a lot of the same issues with the Winnebago, and Leisure products on this platform, although I consider both of them to be a cut above the Tiffin.
hey there - it's happy daze ;-) I'm not sure. I find this particular dealership in Sacramento to be fairly honest with me when I go it. i think it depends on the salesperson. they are trying to sell their products which is why it's important that we as buyers go in informed and make up our own minds. in fact some viewers now go in to dealer lots and don't even deal with the sales people until and if they make a decision to purchase. they are well enough informed that they often times know more than the sales people.
I didn't know you could use "dealership" and "fairly honest" in the same sentence? Don't you think there's a huge liability for Tiffin as well as the selling dealer with respect to failing to disclose the OCCC restriction? Imagine that coach with two adult passengers, and every storage area full. If there was an out of control accident, I would think the lawyers would have a field day.
I don’t know how they can sell that RV with that cargo capacity because in an accident the insurance will not payout do to the cargo capacity and your estimated is off because you did not count the added solar panel and if you add an inverter.
If OCCC is a government regulated safety issue and Tiffin is in the RV camping and touring business....what is Tiffins response to this??????????? seems like Tiffin is in the airline business with planes that fly with out any passengers or luggage....
WOW! Some false and some manipulated information. This a a biased review. I love Tiffin Wayfarers (they are beautiful and they have great customer service). I'm on my 2nd one and I never experienced any issues with loose LED lights, the struts for the outside TV work fine, and all my positive locking cabinets work perfectly. BTW, @ 17:55 we can see you pushing upwards on that cabinet (LOL-I guess you were trying to make your point). The OCCC for our Wayfarer 2018 QW is 1,150 lbs because we don't have the Big Foot system (heavy), solar, or that bathroom configuration. Our current QW comes with the lighter/basic stabilizers. Also, 1,150 lbs is adequate for the wife and I and we don't drive around with a full tank of fresh water (it doesn't make sense). 1-False Information... @6:21 you pointed that the fresh water tank capacity is 38 Gallons and you multiplied by 8.3 lbs (that incorrect) and at 26:17 it shows 32 gallons, but its actually 31 gallons for that year model (see the brochure). Come on!
@@luism2971 I sold my 2016 Tiffin32SA Class A and I’m probably going to get a QW wayfarer. I’ve meet Mr Bob Tiffin several times and I was at the Tiffin 50th Anniversary Rally in Wyoming Bob was there again great man. He personally got me chrome handles for my cargo compartments on my 32SA
A very very popular model is the 2020 Winnebago View 24D...with lithium. Have you done a similar review of that one. This one's quality and OCCC really makes it show poorly. Great review.
Ultramobility can’t wait for your Navion/view review. If you did Melbourne prestige you would round out what I think are the best options for sprinter class c.
With an OCC this low the coach should be illegal there's no way it will ever be used within its legal limits, you gave Tiffin too easy of a pass on that in my opinion
More people in California will be living full time in these, due to the high cost of living going up each month. Also the unknown power problems there as well.
What was Tiffin thinking? I don’t understand why the OCCC appears to be ignored by manufacturers and dealers. It’s on the sticker, which is on the vehicle.
Neil, I think the review should have ended at the OCCC. It is unconscionable for an RV manufacturer to build a product that could essentially void the chassis manufacturer's warranty out of the dealer's door. When you add unscrupulous dealers telling customers "Most people ignore OCCC weight limits." like I was told by more than one salesperson, it is a recipe for disaster.
Hi Neil, Any chance you could do in-depth reviews of similar length RVs that aren't class B - specifically Thor Vegas 24.1 and/or Gulf Stream B.T. Cruiser?
WOW, This a Tiffin.. terrible! But great review Neil and cameramen.. when u open the panel where wires had me flabbergasted. It look a jungle gym in there..
I sure wish you'd give your view on warranties a little more thought. Tiffin's one year, or Pleasure-Way's five year - it really doesn't make that much difference. They're all pretty crappy. PW's five-year sounds great, until you read their page-long list of exclusions, which covers just about everything. Some PW warranty items are measured in months, not years. And for a lot of the covered items, you pay for the Diagnostics because that's not covered. And one of my favorite warranties is the one covering the Airstream Atlas. Spend $250,000, and here's what you get in the warranty: if an Airstream dealer can't, or won't, fix a warranty issue, it is your obligation to get the coach to the point of manufacture to get it repaired, all at your cost. I would sure like to see you do an in-depth review of the warranties and exclusions on some of the major manufacturers. The devil is in the details.
Here's Part 2 for your warranty review. I have a 5 year warranty on my Pleasure-Way. I've owned it for less than nine months. I took it to the dealer today where I purchased it for some minor issues. He said he couldn't even look at it until February of next year, because of his shop backlog.
I love that you have expanded your range to B+ and small C's. However, your reviews might be more useful to your traditional followers if you focused on the floorpans that do not require slides out for sleeping. Many boondocking opportunities do not allow for slides. I, and many others, for example, think it is in poor taste to open slides at a highway rest area or business parking lot. Also, some cities allow RV parking, but not RV living. If you park in a friend/relative's driveway and open slides, the neighbors may complain. If you simply look parked, should not be a problem to sleep in your own bed. There are many under 26 foot rigs with twin beds or island beds that fit the bill (not only Pleasureway and LTV!). Slides are best reserved for campgrounds.
@@Ultramobility How often do insurance companies check weights if there is an accident? Could an insurance company not pay a claim because they found you were over weight and not traveling safely. I’m betting they might.
yep that's a major reason that needed to be emphasized and I forgot to. I guess I felt at the time that my earlier comment and highlighting of the occc rating was enough but i think you're right upon reviewing it.
I don’t recommend any rv that can’t stand up to a rv show , I’ve seen airstream fall apart when at rv show , I owned a 2018 classic and a 2019 and I was very disappointed,l bought the 2020 pleasureway platue ts based on your reviews.
I'm lost... How can an RV be legally sold without cargo capacity? Tiffin HAS to realize that most folks won't pay attention to that and will load it up. Having that much storage space is an invitation to store stuff. Just doesn't make sense..
it's the reason why i point it out. i don't like when rv manufacturers tout in their marketing all the storage but then say nothing about their occc rating.
so basically, once you fill up your eater tanks and have people riding it the carrying capacity gets maxed out!?, so there is NO carrying capacity left for food, clothes , small appliances...wow! that really sucks! who would buy this knowing that?
maybe if you don't fill you water tank and just use hookups you could carry a few things but certainly could never safely fill all that exterior storage.
@@Ultramobility Seems silly. Plus its designed to hold more than 2 people....seems to me all their coaches are like this. Makes no sense to me. Great review btw. Thanks.
Your last video discussed how conservative U. S. Are. I vehemently as the U. S. Industry dictates what we like. The top of the line Tiffin proofs the point. At this price, this coach is trash.
Sorry Neil, this thing is a beast, I'm appalled at the OCCC-deplorable and no mention of ANY towing capacity . Fit and finish were lacking to in a lot of little ways too, like the cabinets, outside TV cover, etc. I'll pass on Tiffen Class C.
Do not Like the Tiffin Wayfarer 25QW, love the review......but, and you know what my comment is going to be.....PW makes a far superior product, Quality wise, Weight wise and Guarantee wise....do not like to bash any product, but will roll with the PW XLMB hands down!
Wow, so many issues. I find that Tiffin's lack of quality control scary. This coach is falling apart on the lot, what will happen when getting out on to some bumpy roads?
well to be fair, every brand that i've seen on dealer lots including pleasureway has had something wrong with it. the problem is that tiffin has a lot more problems than other brands.
Yes the coach is billed as a 2019 But as is generally the case the chassis year is usually one year behind and this is because the manufacturers have to buy the chassis that far ahead in order to secure a shipment and then leave enough production time to get the completed unit out to the dealer lots.
The problem is the Mercedes sprinter. If they made it gas on a Ford E350 or E450 chassis, it would be much better with lower cost, easier maintenance, and all the OCCC anybody could want.
Tiffin is living off their high end Class A rep. The market is exploding and they're cashing in on it with coaches like this. If multiplex wiring is so great, why does it look like a plate of spaghetti wires under the sink?
Bob Smith even when Winnebago uses a Sprinter chassis, they get a lot more capacity. If I were designing rv’s, I’d look for innovative ways to make cabinets, especially the overhead ones, as light as possible, both for load and for weight distribution. Do they really need so much wood? Many areas of the coach could cut weight too. This coach is bloated. The Sprinter is a limited platform and the manufacturer needs to account for that, or go Ford gas.
I can't believe this rig has a negative OCCC after figuring in passengers and water tank capacity. That is shocking. I will never buy a Tiffin Class C product until they get a better warranty, quality control and a much better OCCC. You are in a dangerous driving situation driving off the lot. NOT GOOD TIFFIN! I like the space and amenities you get. That rats nest of wiring is ridiculous and the cheap shower in the bathroom...horrible quality. Marked Tiffin off my list to even consider. Great video Neil!
This coach needs to be a heavier chassis. This one is nearly maxed out when empty. I'm surprised that the Tiffin engineers would even design a coach like this. Driving a at near max GVRW is not good for safety or durability.
carrying capacity....really the review might have ended at that point. if something isn't safe to carry your family, who cares how great the other accoutrements may be.
I would like to thank you for another great review and honest review. But this is the worst coach you have ever reviewed in terms of quality. That I have seen of course. For this price I can build one myself from scratch and not spend as much and have three times equality this coach has.
"This coach can sleep up to four people." Unfortunately, because of the ridiculously low OCC, transporting four people and a full fresh water tank could easily be a safety hazard.. And the quality of that shower - yikes.
Dang! Not a flattering review at all. Things falling apart on camera and that OCCC- or lack there of? Why would anyone choose this? Makes my 2016 REV look even better😁
So let me if I've got this right. In order to actually use this, I have to have it towed to the site and bring my food, clothes, computer, etc to the site separately so I'm not driving an unsafe, poorly constructed, overpriced POS. And it's made by Tiffin. Got it. Thanks for the warning.
This 21:00 is unacceptable in your house let alone a mobile home or boat. Hard pass on Tiffin. Imagine the quality of the stuff you can't see, like the slide mechanism. :-/
Well that's a miss unless passengers and gear are gonna travel in a second vehicle. They can sleep in it just not travel in it. Neil, it is the end of the world. Get out now unless you are back to doing comedy. I was one that appreciated your comedic takes.
@@Ultramobility yes previous videos. I liked it but some didn't. Although I saw glimmers of it here. Me thinks you had to constrain yourself a bit. I felt any moment your inner comic could have won out.
Engineering and design seem negligent considering cargo capacity. Seems almost fraudulent..... Tiffin is supposed to be high quality? Maybe not so much.....
That retractable plastic shower door is pretty pathetic for this price range. We all know what happens to plastic with the temperature changes from winter to summer.
It looks cheap, but it actually holds up quite well. Our twelve year old Winnebago class C has one that still looks new despite being in Oklahoma. They are easy to wipe dry and are completely out of the way allowing for good airflow. Winnebago provided a removable closet bar in the shower that allows us to hang up wet kayak gear (wetsuits, life jackets, etc.).
😳😳😳! Wow, great video. Thank you, the craftsmanship, or lack in pride of craftsmanship, is abysmal. Surprised Mercedes, “TIFFIN would put some thing like that together. Whoever did that wiring should be fired and laughed at as they leave the premises. All those cheap/pathetic little pieces, will break someone’s wallet eventually.
Do you like the Tiffin Wayfarer 25QW?
Ultramobility - I like it, interesting design! But your concern about the weight is warranted. I’m not as concerned about the safety as much as I am about maintenance issues. The weight being at vehicle capacity is going to cause additional heat, wear and tear, and stress on every vehicle component. Been there, done that, very expensive. Having worked in the cellular phone industry the wiring cabinet you showed sent a chill up my spine, whomever allowed THAT mess to go out the door should be reassigned or terminated immediately, that mess was inexcusable. The price was a plus! But the price also explains every negative issue you mentioned. I’ve come to believe if you save money up front, you’re going to pay dearly throughout the life of the RV in repair, and maintenance costs as well as ruined trips or vacations. This coach reminds me of one of my worst purchases ever, a Winnebago that ruined EVERY trip due to an assortment of failures. Your concern about the sturdiness of the shower was also spot on. However having used a flexible plastic roll up shower door in an Airstream... that’s a non issue. Those seemingly flimsy shower doors actually work! LOL!
Minute 7:00
You should have stopped the review.
God forbid I wanted to carry myself at 215 plus a significant other at 150 lbs I need to start dumping water...😂😁😁
If it weren’t sad it would really be funny.
Thanks for pointing out how careless this manufacturer is!
No one else in the industry is pointing this out.
With duallys in the rear, there is no way the OCCC is less than 700lb unless they built that body shell out of 3 inch steel. The naked chassis must easily be able to carry >6,000lb per Mercedes with a GVWR of almost 12,000lb. How could the fiberglass coach itself weigh over 5,000lb? I think your information or their information is just wrong-- off by a decimal.
the occc raiting came directly off the door Allie. I'm afraid this is a fact unfortunately.
Not a safe option unless for a super skinny couple. Even then no room for extra stuff. For quality Winnebago View/Navion has more cargo space.
Afraid I lost interest the second you said the cargo capacity.
nooooo keep watching!
One of the safest yet most overloaded thus more dangerous coaches out there ....
The weight is a result of the leveling system the largest in this class
That is shocking about carrying capacity! How is that possible? I'm stunned.
it's possible because we consumers don't demand better.
Should be illegal to sell.
@@Ultramobility it's possible because Merc Vans are not F450 Ford Econoline. It's also questionable why you'd want slides on such a light vehicle.
@@Ultramobility Agreed...most buyers are unaware of this. And dealers won't tell you about it. All those nice yet heavy materials add up. But MB and Ford do really need a more robust yet fuel efficient platform for RV outfitters with at least 12,000 lbs GVWR. I guess we are all waiting on the E-350, 450 to finally die...lol
Thanks for doing a Class C review. Just used to seeing better quality and can't imagine being over capacity before loading it.
thank you so much for watching Julie.
A very thorough and complete review - well worth the time spent watching. A person learns alot about RV build quality watching the reviews by Ultramobility which is an asset for anyone considering buying. Thanks for a job well done!
nice that you are moving on to other Rv's,,types,,,,,,,keep going,,thx
but no,,,garbage,,,
Neil, has Tiffin gotten in touch with regarding the OCCC? It's their due diligence to set the record straight. Advise please. Thank you.
No comments, no interests. Thanks for your review and see you next time.
I was researching the 2018 Thor Axis / Vegas 24.1... for its size... and their brochure only talks about GVWR (14,500) and GCWR (22,000). I like that it can also tow 8,000lbs. I'm learning all the terms and what the specs mean. So what would be the Axis / Vegas' OCCC? Going to an RV Show in a few weeks so trying to learn what stuff to look for other than visual aesthetics. You have the BEST walk-through videos... detailed info, very steady, wide-angle, plus you putting yourself in the space. Thumbs up!!!
Love the external storage and the protected tanks and water lines. The deal breaker though is that there is no capacity to carry weight of cargo!
What good is a camper if you have space for cargo but no carrying capacity!
exactly... what's the point of all that storage?
Great review...I appreciate how thorough you are!
Love your new active review of the RV!
Keep it!!
Thank you for all you do!
Really good review -- and glad you're branching out beyond Class Bs. I've learned more about Class C particulars to look for. Too bad about the other issues, but I think your reviews will make a difference in the long run. BTW, I continue to be really happy with my PW. No quality issues. No issues period.
thank you!
It’s a lovely coach and very nicely designed but the negative cargo weight knocked it right off my list. Thanks for another great and informative video!
I'm really looking forward to a manufacture that cares about safety and quality to copy this floor-plan.
hopefully they're listening paul.
Googled campsites. Now this showed up on YT suggestions.....good content, already can't stop watching. ...wife.hates.me
hahah thank you
I watched the review in it's entirety. Your concluding comments were quite puzzling however. If the OCCC is negative, that means I paying $100,000 + for a Class C RV, but when I pack the vehicle to leave on a trip, I can't bring anything but the clothes on my back? What good is all the storage if I can't carry anything with the vehicle being overweight. Im confused.
The Tiffin Wayfarer is famous for providing tons of available storage to go along with ounces of cargo carrying capacity. But the Sprinter is a stout platform, and I am sure that there are after market suspension components that will enable you to increase those numbers, ie Sumo springs, air bladders, beefier anti sway bars, and such. The rub is that Tiffin should be incorporating these components themselves.
third cat is right: it's about everything mark brings up plus the things that third cat brings up. it's a totality of the vehicle's capability to carry cargo weight.
I think that with the ability to tow, and therefore stop with close to 5,000 additional pounds, the engine, trans, and brakes are more than capable of handling the weight, we're you to upgrade the suspension, provided you subtracted any additional on board weight from your towing figures.
Thanks for thorough review of this coach which per their brochure touts as being top quality.
Putting aside the fact that your available free weight capacity is in the negative range, the quality of their workmanship is very poor (some might say that it’s at the level of the Chinese). The rat’s nest of wires is embarrassing. If one of my kids did something like this, they would have received a lecture from me about doing it right and then they would have been made to do it til it was right. To me, this suggests that management simply doesn’t care about quality workmanship as long as it works.
I believe you can tell about a company and their product when you turn your attention to the small and maybe not so visible details. If they are short-changing their customer there, imagine what they may be doing in areas not so easily accessible.
Your frank and honest reviews hopefully are putting companies on notice that their shoddy workmanship is no longer acceptable. And, I agree with you re: warranty. Perhaps customers should view the one year warranty as a warning as to quality. If you have a quality product, then it seems only reasonable that you would stand behind it for years to come. Remember the old saying “Solid as Sears”? Apparently Tiffin hasn’t for their Class C/B+ rigs.
Keep up your reviews. Excellent work, Neal.
really appreciate this comment. thank you catherine. I'm trying to shed light on some of these issues even if the manufacturers and some dealers aren't happy with me doing it. for the record, Happy Daze RV has been great to work with as they allow me to use their lot and never interfere with my reviews.
If your going to be doing more class c videos would you consider taking a poke at the jayco melbourne/melbourne prestige. They have a similar floor plan to this in the 24k or 24kp. They are also the only manufacturer I know of that gives you the option of a c or a b+ front cap on the same unit. They look good on paper but I've not seen OCCC info anywhere about them and I wonder how much substance their is behind the good surface appearance.
You are the only person on UA-cam that mentions the OCC. Often when I ask the dealer or manufacturer UA-cam channels about OCC, they ignore my question!
i don't get it. it's a really important rating that everyone needs to be aware of. it affects not only your safety but the safety of others who are sharing the road with you.
I had a sales person boldly tell “it’s no big deal, people overload these things all the time”. Glad this channel exists for good honest information.
@@Ultramobility I'm thinking that "maybe" if an owner knows they are overweight then the RV insurance is probably invalid?
@TheAmpfixer - it's a great question. i'll have to call my insurance company and see. I suspect if they find out that you were overweight whether or not you knew they could have an out.
This is a pretty big rig. Have you considered to review the two smaller BT Cruiser floor plans, the 5210 and 5230? They are smaller and way cheaper. It would be interesting to have your opinion about the build quality and specs.
What a shame that the quality is just not there.
Weight capacity is a big big issue.
Thank you for the fantastically honest review!
Looks most certainly can be deceiving.
yes indeed. we all need to open up panels and peek behind to see what we can see and make our own determination.
This coach works for me because I always travel with a dozen fully inflated weather balloons. Just fill that propane tank with helium and I'm good to go.
Very good review Ultramobility! Two thumbs up! Thank you. Can you do the same for the other short class c competition? Thanks!
Well thought out review
thank you. i had to wing this one because the dealer we had previously cleared to review a set of 3 rvs with pulled out at the last minute while we were filming on their lot! happy daze to the rescue! thank you happy daze!
Where did you get your Sprinter specs? Everybody else has a 5 speed not a 7 speed and the 2019 is changed from the 2018.
yep my mistake. those specs are for the 2018 chassis
Is there a lockout that prevents you from extending the rear slide if it is blocked?
Hi Neil! I have a quick question for you. Is it possible to add seat belts to seating areas inside an RV so that more passengers can travel securely? Hope you can answer my question. Thanks
you could do it after market but you'd want to get it certified with the department of transportation so that your insurance company will likely recognize it.
Do you have any experience with the insulation in this model?
To many quality control issues with this one and others like it.
noted - i hope tiffin is listening!
I see a lot of the same issues with the Winnebago, and Leisure products on this platform, although I consider both of them to be a cut above the Tiffin.
Good review Badd coach. Tiffan Is a quality coach company so I was surprised by the low cargo weight & the cheap finishes on the interior.
Well said!
Do you think the Lazy Dayz typical salesman will warn every potential customer about the OCCC?
hey there - it's happy daze ;-) I'm not sure. I find this particular dealership in Sacramento to be fairly honest with me when I go it. i think it depends on the salesperson. they are trying to sell their products which is why it's important that we as buyers go in informed and make up our own minds. in fact some viewers now go in to dealer lots and don't even deal with the sales people until and if they make a decision to purchase. they are well enough informed that they often times know more than the sales people.
I didn't know you could use "dealership" and "fairly honest" in the same sentence?
Don't you think there's a huge liability for Tiffin as well as the selling dealer with respect to failing to disclose the OCCC restriction? Imagine that coach with two adult passengers, and every storage area full. If there was an out of control accident, I would think the lawyers would have a field day.
I don’t know how they can sell that RV with that cargo capacity because in an accident the insurance will not payout do to the cargo capacity and your estimated is off because you did not count the added solar panel and if you add an inverter.
If OCCC is a government regulated safety issue and Tiffin is in the RV camping and touring business....what is Tiffins response to this??????????? seems like Tiffin is in the airline business with planes that fly with out any passengers or luggage....
Does OCC include full fuel tank (diesel and propane)?
yes it does.
WOW! Some false and some manipulated information. This a a biased review. I love Tiffin Wayfarers (they are beautiful and they have great customer service). I'm on my 2nd one and I never experienced any issues with loose LED lights, the struts for the outside TV work fine, and all my positive locking cabinets work perfectly. BTW, @ 17:55 we can see you pushing upwards on that cabinet (LOL-I guess you were trying to make your point). The OCCC for our Wayfarer 2018 QW is 1,150 lbs because we don't have the Big Foot system (heavy), solar, or that bathroom configuration. Our current QW comes with the lighter/basic stabilizers. Also, 1,150 lbs is adequate for the wife and I and we don't drive around with a full tank of fresh water (it doesn't make sense). 1-False Information... @6:21 you pointed that the fresh water tank capacity is 38 Gallons and you multiplied by 8.3 lbs (that incorrect) and at 26:17 it shows 32 gallons, but its actually 31 gallons for that year model (see the brochure). Come on!
@@luism2971 I sold my 2016 Tiffin32SA Class A and I’m probably going to get a QW wayfarer. I’ve meet Mr Bob Tiffin several times and I was at the Tiffin 50th Anniversary Rally in Wyoming Bob was there again great man. He personally got me chrome handles for my cargo compartments on my 32SA
A very very popular model is the 2020 Winnebago View 24D...with lithium. Have you done a similar review of that one. This one's quality and OCCC really makes it show poorly. Great review.
will be doing a review of the view/navion shortly... thank you!
Ultramobility Tnx. I ordered one last Monday.
Ultramobility can’t wait for your Navion/view review. If you did Melbourne prestige you would round out what I think are the best options for sprinter class c.
With an OCC this low the coach should be illegal there's no way it will ever be used within its legal limits, you gave Tiffin too easy of a pass on that in my opinion
Makes the RVIA seal a total joke, doesn't it?
More people in California will be living full time in these, due to the high cost of living going up each month. Also the unknown power problems there as well.
😯 The outdoor TV door’s gas struts must have had beans before hand! 💨
What was Tiffin thinking?
I don’t understand why the OCCC appears to be ignored by manufacturers and dealers. It’s on the sticker, which is on the vehicle.
i guess they think we consumers are too dumb to look.
Ultramobility Well I learned about it from you and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you.
Neil,
I think the review should have ended at the OCCC. It is unconscionable for an RV manufacturer to build a product that could essentially void the chassis manufacturer's warranty out of the dealer's door. When you add unscrupulous dealers telling customers "Most people ignore OCCC weight limits." like I was told by more than one salesperson, it is a recipe for disaster.
agree. dealers should not be telling customers this. OCCC is important and it is legally required to be listed for a reason.
Hi Neil,
Any chance you could do in-depth reviews of similar length RVs that aren't class B - specifically Thor Vegas 24.1 and/or Gulf Stream B.T. Cruiser?
WOW, This a Tiffin.. terrible! But great review Neil and cameramen.. when u open the panel where wires had me flabbergasted. It look a jungle gym in there..
thank you craig. i try to give a fair and balanced review. appreciate your kind comment.
Ultramobility I was shock at this product.. to be a tiffin
I sure wish you'd give your view on warranties a little more thought. Tiffin's one year, or Pleasure-Way's five year - it really doesn't make that much difference.
They're all pretty crappy.
PW's five-year sounds great, until you read their page-long list of exclusions, which covers just about everything. Some PW warranty items are measured in months, not years.
And for a lot of the covered items, you pay for the Diagnostics because that's not covered.
And one of my favorite warranties is the one covering the Airstream Atlas. Spend $250,000, and here's what you get in the warranty: if an Airstream dealer can't, or won't, fix a warranty issue, it is your obligation to get the coach to the point of manufacture to get it repaired, all at your cost.
I would sure like to see you do an in-depth review of the warranties and exclusions on some of the major manufacturers.
The devil is in the details.
good idea.
Here's Part 2 for your warranty review. I have a 5 year warranty on my Pleasure-Way. I've owned it for less than nine months. I took it to the dealer today where I purchased it for some minor issues. He said he couldn't even look at it until February of next year, because of his shop backlog.
I love that you have expanded your range to B+ and small C's. However, your reviews might be more useful to your traditional followers if you focused on the floorpans that do not require slides out for sleeping. Many boondocking opportunities do not allow for slides. I, and many others, for example, think it is in poor taste to open slides at a highway rest area or business parking lot. Also, some cities allow RV parking, but not RV living. If you park in a friend/relative's driveway and open slides, the neighbors may complain. If you simply look parked, should not be a problem to sleep in your own bed. There are many under 26 foot rigs with twin beds or island beds that fit the bill (not only Pleasureway and LTV!). Slides are best reserved for campgrounds.
The negative OCC should be a major deal breaker if safety is a concern.
agree.
@@Ultramobility How often do insurance companies check weights if there is an accident? Could an insurance company not pay a claim because they found you were over weight and not traveling safely. I’m betting they might.
How will Tiffin change this capacity?
You didn’t mention OCCC in your wrap up
yep that's a major reason that needed to be emphasized and I forgot to. I guess I felt at the time that my earlier comment and highlighting of the occc rating was enough but i think you're right upon reviewing it.
I don’t recommend any rv that can’t stand up to a rv show , I’ve seen airstream fall apart when at rv show , I owned a 2018 classic and a 2019 and I was very disappointed,l bought the 2020 pleasureway platue ts based on your reviews.
i hope it's working out for you! congratulations!
Tiffan is a family owned business, disappointed with quality and not addressing the cargo carrying capacity.
yes they are. my parents also own a tiffin class A so i have some first hand experience with the brand.
With that low OCC my family (3 of us) would be over the line by 200 lbs so this would be a no from me.
glad that knowing the occc rating has helped you in your purchase decision.
I think you would also be over the line on safety. I believe there are only two seat belts.
I'm lost... How can an RV be legally sold without cargo capacity? Tiffin HAS to realize that most folks won't pay attention to that and will load it up. Having that much storage space is an invitation to store stuff. Just doesn't make sense..
it's the reason why i point it out. i don't like when rv manufacturers tout in their marketing all the storage but then say nothing about their occc rating.
So how can they legally sell this thing?
so basically, once you fill up your eater tanks and have people riding it the carrying capacity gets maxed out!?, so there is NO carrying capacity left for food, clothes , small appliances...wow! that really sucks! who would buy this knowing that?
Great review!! I like your longer hair ☺️
lol - really? ack, i couldn't stand it and it is now cut back short again... sigh...
You ask if i like..quality is not that great on SMALL stuff..sooo the slides worry me also...cheap shower? Cabinets? Worrisome!
Tiffin has left the chat.
I don't think you are supposed to travel with full water tanks.
I kept watching after you mentioned the cargo capacity, but my heart wasn't in it anymore.
Once UA-cam cut an ad in at 9:42, your video froze.
sorry about that. thanks for letting me know.
great review , when can you review Solis :-)
No way does it have a 7 speed transmission on a 2018 Sprinter chassis.
i think you're right and I am wrong - it has a 5 speed transmission. thanks for pointing that out.
So then this coach is actually useless. Unbelievable
maybe if you don't fill you water tank and just use hookups you could carry a few things but certainly could never safely fill all that exterior storage.
@@Ultramobility Seems silly. Plus its designed to hold more than 2 people....seems to me all their coaches are like this. Makes no sense to me. Great review btw. Thanks.
Your last video discussed how conservative U. S. Are. I vehemently as the U. S. Industry dictates what we like. The top of the line Tiffin proofs the point. At this price, this coach is trash.
Sorry Neil, this thing is a beast, I'm appalled at the OCCC-deplorable and no mention of ANY towing capacity . Fit and finish were lacking to in a lot of little ways too, like the cabinets, outside TV cover, etc. I'll pass on Tiffen Class C.
This is crazy. My ex is 6'4, 350 pounds. My son is also 300 pounds... guess only 1 person can go at a time.
For $110K, I can get a _nice_ pickup truck and a _nice_ , quality Airstream.
true that. i need to do more truck campers don't you think?
Ultramobility I meant an Airstream travel trailer. I’m not a truck camper fan. But certainly review everything. You’re the best!!!
Ultramobility we are currently considering a truck camper. Would love to see your opinions on some.
how much?
This is a very good floor plan,👍✌️ but only a floor plan 😀
ouch but true.
can you check out ISATA 5 WITH DODGE DIESEL
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Just me but I'll never buy a coach with slide outs. Canadian weather eh?
smart man
Do not Like the Tiffin Wayfarer 25QW, love the review......but, and you know what my comment is going to be.....PW makes a far superior product, Quality wise, Weight wise and Guarantee wise....do not like to bash any product, but will roll with the PW XLMB hands down!
true but at a much higher price unfortunately...
@@Ultramobility and sad but you get what you pay for!
Love your videos! Would love to see a review of the 2020 Winnebago View 24D! :)
Sorry. Not interested in class C at all. Looking forward to more class B reviews. Maybe the new Solis???
yep as soon as i can get my hands on one. likely in 2020 when they hit dealer lots.
Wow, so many issues. I find that Tiffin's lack of quality control scary. This coach is falling apart on the lot, what will happen when getting out on to some bumpy roads?
well to be fair, every brand that i've seen on dealer lots including pleasureway has had something wrong with it. the problem is that tiffin has a lot more problems than other brands.
review "Alaskan Campers",,great hand built quality,,,,
noted.
A 2019 review on a 2018 model? Now that's truth in advertising...
Yes the coach is billed as a 2019 But as is generally the case the chassis year is usually one year behind and this is because the manufacturers have to buy the chassis that far ahead in order to secure a shipment and then leave enough production time to get the completed unit out to the dealer lots.
I don’t think you are going to get a Like from Tiffin on this.
probably not... i don't think bob tiffin will be calling me to congratulate me on a fine video.
@@Ultramobility I certainly hope it at least lights a fire under him to actually pay attention to what his company is building.
The problem is the Mercedes sprinter. If they made it gas on a Ford E350 or E450 chassis, it would be much better with lower cost, easier maintenance, and all the OCCC anybody could want.
Tiffin is living off their high end Class A rep. The market is exploding and they're cashing in on it with coaches like this. If multiplex wiring is so great, why does it look like a plate of spaghetti wires under the sink?
Bob Smith even when Winnebago uses a Sprinter chassis, they get a lot more capacity.
If I were designing rv’s, I’d look for innovative ways to make cabinets, especially the overhead ones, as light as possible, both for load and for weight distribution. Do they really need so much wood? Many areas of the coach could cut weight too. This coach is bloated. The Sprinter is a limited platform and the manufacturer needs to account for that, or go Ford gas.
I can't believe this rig has a negative OCCC after figuring in passengers and water tank capacity. That is shocking. I will never buy a Tiffin Class C product until they get a better warranty, quality control and a much better OCCC. You are in a dangerous driving situation driving off the lot. NOT GOOD TIFFIN! I like the space and amenities you get. That rats nest of wiring is ridiculous and the cheap shower in the bathroom...horrible quality. Marked Tiffin off my list to even consider. Great video Neil!
thank you so much Magic Journey as always!
Hmmmmm
1970’s and early 80’s Toyota rv’s
Overloaded as well
What could go wrong..
Not worth the money IMHO. Review the Embassy RV in Elkhart.
Neal..correct this has quality problems..not sure in this one..it is pretty..but worrisome!
This coach needs to be a heavier chassis. This one is nearly maxed out when empty. I'm surprised that the Tiffin engineers would even design a coach like this. Driving a at near max GVRW is not good for safety or durability.
carrying capacity....really the review might have ended at that point. if something isn't safe to carry your family, who cares how great the other accoutrements may be.
agree but please do continue to watch the video for my sake!
I would like to thank you for another great review and honest review. But this is the worst coach you have ever reviewed in terms of quality. That I have seen of course. For this price I can build one myself from scratch and not spend as much and have three times equality this coach has.
"This coach can sleep up to four people."
Unfortunately, because of the ridiculously low OCC, transporting four people and a full fresh water tank could easily be a safety hazard..
And the quality of that shower - yikes.
Dang! Not a flattering review at all. Things falling apart on camera and that OCCC- or lack there of? Why would anyone choose this? Makes my 2016 REV look even better😁
yeah unfortunately not a good review for this wayfarer...
So let me if I've got this right. In order to actually use this, I have to have it towed to the site and bring my food, clothes, computer, etc to the site separately so I'm not driving an unsafe, poorly constructed, overpriced POS. And it's made by Tiffin. Got it. Thanks for the warning.
This 21:00 is unacceptable in your house let alone a mobile home or boat. Hard pass on Tiffin. Imagine the quality of the stuff you can't see, like the slide mechanism. :-/
it's a mess of wires for sure...
Well that's a miss unless passengers and gear are gonna travel in a second vehicle. They can sleep in it just not travel in it. Neil, it is the end of the world. Get out now unless you are back to doing comedy. I was one that appreciated your comedic takes.
which comedic take spell madam? the ones in this video or my outtakes from previous videos?
@@Ultramobility yes previous videos. I liked it but some didn't. Although I saw glimmers of it here. Me thinks you had to constrain yourself a bit. I felt any moment your inner comic could have won out.
Engineering and design seem negligent considering cargo capacity.
Seems almost fraudulent.....
Tiffin is supposed to be high quality? Maybe not so much.....
That retractable plastic shower door is pretty pathetic for this price range. We all know what happens to plastic with the temperature changes from winter to summer.
yep, i agree.
It looks cheap, but it actually holds up quite well. Our twelve year old Winnebago class C has one that still looks new despite being in Oklahoma. They are easy to wipe dry and are completely out of the way allowing for good airflow. Winnebago provided a removable closet bar in the shower that allows us to hang up wet kayak gear (wetsuits, life jackets, etc.).
Yup, wouldn't buy it with cargo capacity!
672 OCCC? Why even bother making this rig? I guess, don’t bring, food, outdoor equipment, clothes, pets, or firewood. Just bring yourself.
Wow, no way to drive that rig safely...
yep they need to address this important issue.
😳😳😳! Wow, great video. Thank you, the craftsmanship, or lack in pride of craftsmanship, is abysmal. Surprised Mercedes, “TIFFIN would put some thing like that together. Whoever did that wiring should be fired and laughed at as they leave the premises. All those cheap/pathetic little pieces, will break someone’s wallet eventually.
Thanks for watching!