My father learned to shoot on a Savage .22/410ga over-under; It was 'lost' to a cousin during an unfortunate location of the gun during the disbursement of an estate. I searched for years to surprise him with a Savage .22/410ga and could never come up with one. After 3 years, I settled on a Savage .22mag/20ga and got one in decent shape... It was a birthday gift that nearly made him cry. He never got to shoot it as he passed away that winter but I now have it and I make sure to take it out grouse hunting whenever I go. Great little gun. Seeing your .22/410ga makes me miss him because he always loved it and I wish I could have found one for him.
I used to play with Red Ryder's, the infamous pumps and a c02 powered rifle as a kid/teen. Then got into "real" firearms. Now I am 37 and recently got 2 new break barrel pellet rifles. A Ruger .22 pellet rifle and a Cross F4 .177 Rifle, Crossman was 90 and Ruger was 150 at Walmart. Also got thousands of rounds of ammo. I have had days and days and days of fun from the same ammo I got the day I got the rifles. It used to cost what, 50 bucks to 1000 bucks for a day at the range depending on ones budget and toys? I can shoot all day now for 6 dollars. And have fun too. So go for it man! Go get a bad ass break barrel and have fun, but remember, these aren't the "toy" air rifles we had as kids lol
To get comparable muzzle energy and especially similar damage to the target, you need to use not the lightest bullet, but a heavier one. With increasing bullet weight, the muzzle energy gradually grows to a certain point. Moreover, a heavy bullet better retains its energy over long distances. A light bullet almost immediately begins to lose its speed and, accordingly, muzzle energy. Plus, you can use an expansive bullet (destroyer) then the wound channel will be much wider, especially at the exit. In a word, thanks for the experiment, but it was set incorrectly.
A 10.5gr. or 13.34gr. 177 pellet would have penetrated the plywood, a Stoeger or H&N copper coated 10.5 will pass through a fir 2x4, lightweight pellets are useless, mostly inaccurate and shed velocity very quickly.
@@kevink552 I've had all kinds of break barrels and none have the power to penetrate a 2x4. Not even that close. Not even my Beeman Kodiak with 32 ft/lbs of K.E. I get excellent accuracy with H&N lead free pellets. I prefer them for my indoor range. I have a homemade backstop that consists of a box with old jeans in the front, and a steal plate in the back. I tried lead pellets and after going through the jeans they hit the plate and splatter sending pieces out the side of the box. But the lead free are much, much tougher and they only the deform on the plate.
even PCP airgun does not have chanse vs 22lr,even vs 22 short.Velocity does not matter,just velocity.ft ibs energy is matter and mass. ft-ibs =v/m2 .Other thing is B.C of the bullet that is 5 times bigger in 22 lr than pallet.Pressure in 22lr barrel is around 1600 bar,even 22 short have around 1000 bar pressure so 22 lr have 1 mile range and better trajectory than any big bore PCP airgun.Powder is powder and compress air does not have chanse vs powder.
@@ciro79 Well, be careful with that statement. While the more popular PCPs generally make less power than a .22 lr, there are big bore PCPs that make over 500 ft/lbs of K.E. Granted, those are very loud and not super popular, but they are readily available.
Not if it's your head its flying over, many times out in the wilds of NZ shooting rabbits I've had .22 ricochet zipping over, a few times directly from a shooter shooting at pest on lakes his angle from my home, he found it impossible to believe what I'd told him, it all boils down to experience and common since.
I think you should also have tried some of the heaviest .22 pellets in the air gun. You would have lost velocity but the extra pellet weight may have helped penetration.
@@ciro79 I use 21.5 grain pellets in a Korean Pcp at roughly 1200fps and that's giving me close to 70ft/lbs . I can use heavier pellets/slugs and get a higher velocity , I think the best I got was 105 ft/lbs with a 32 grain korean pellet/slug . Not here to argue, but it's possible to get close to sub 22 ammo with air in 22 cal in pcp . The problem with that kind of power is I only get six shots and then I need a top up .
Newer tech in air guns are getting very powerful AEA just released a 9mm /.357 pistol that shoots an 82 grain slug or pellet @ 900 fps and puts out 150 ft lbs And their most powerful gun is the AEA ZEUS .72 cal @ 1800 ft lbs of energy
@@bertbccfu9564 air is limited by max preassure forewer.22 lr have 1600 bar in the barrel so firearms can have big energy from small caliber and that is impossible for airgun .
One benefit of an airrifle over a 22lr: The Ammo is basically the cheapest you can get (starting at around 1 cent per shot) and you just need to break the barrel to be ready to fire. You can literaly carry hundreds of rounds in one small pocket. For a survival situation where you need to hunt down small game, this really comes in handy.
FPS means diddly squat any shooter knows that without even bothering to watch the video. It's ENERGY that's the key. The higher the ft/lbs the better. Even the it takes a decent sized calibre at high ft/lbs to create decent stopping power. That said we hunt small game very successfully even with .177 sub 12 ft/lb air rifles in the UK. Rabbits at 40/50 yards are feasable with a head shot.
Love the .22 Pellet Gamo Swarm Magnum rifle. The “Swarm” is due to the magazines that hold and automatically load 10 pellets in the rifle. Take a 9”x12” bake pan and lined with blocks of 1” thick Plumber’s Putty (Home Depot). Slap a sheet of 4-6 targets on the Putty, set up a safe backstop, step back 20’-50’ (even in your basement or garage), put on your eye protection and have fun. When the target pellet holes start to stack pellets, grab needle nose pliers, remove spent pellets, smooth the Putty and do it all over again. No lead dust, no ear protection needed, no disturbing neighbors. Accessories such as a better scope and additional magazines are suggested. Oil the moving parts every so often and enjoy. Hope this helps anyone interested.
Yes, it is based on the Kinetic energy being equal to 1/2 mass * velocity^2. So, if for example, you take my RTI PCP airgun that can shoot a 33.96 grain JSB diablo between 810 and 1205 fps at the barrel, you get about 109 foot pounds of energy for the PCP air gun at the high end, and 123 foot-pounds for the 22 caliber firearm. The highest power 22 cal slug barreled airgun I have shot does about 285 foot-pounds at the barrel, but the accuracy was only about 4 MOA.
I seriously doubt your RTI PCP can shoot a 33.96 grain JSB pellet at 1205 fps. I have a FX Impact in . 22 cal. I have done just about everything to increase its power. I'm running the 800mm long tensioned barrel, the 720 power plenum , the FX power block , Tungsten hammer , slug power kit , Pin probe, Huma air larger dual air transfer port. At 200 bar regulator pressure the highest speed I've achieved with the 33.96 grain JSB pellets is just over 1120 fps or 95 foot pounds.
and even 28 grain easily , that ,on a Pcp could kill a boar at 60 meters , just saying , I have a not too powerful one that makes the job , and I use 18 grain pellets , so , you can not compare a F1 to climb a mountain against a hummer , and so on
@ASEK33 c9p I think you missed the point , if the break barrel rifle he’s using is not powerful enough to launch same weight pellets at the same speed , you can not compare , period . I have a break barrel one that shoots at 309 meter per second with heavy pellets , that , passes plywood through and my fucking head at 20 meter distance , and of course a good pcp , that is still an air rifle , could develop same or more power than a fire gun , you can find pcps with more than 90 jul of power , even nitro piston on break barrels , just google it
I have a high powered break barrel (Ruger Blackhawk) and a .22 (Ruger 10/22 take down). No comparison in expended energy at the target; the .22 hits way harder. Both are great guns, both are really fun. Thanks for a great vid.
You are one of the first persons that I've ever seen do this kind of comparison on UA-cam excellent video and now I know for sure that a 22 bullet is more powerful than any breakdown 22 pellet rifle
Yeah, and not just a little more powerful than a pellet gun, but a LOT more powerful, not even in the same league at all. Muzzle energy for a .22 rim fire is what, about 125 ft. lbs? Just trying to remember what it said on the box of ammo. Something like that anyway. And a break barrel .22 pellet rifle, maybe 25 ft. lbs with a heavy pellet, or so? That's not even slightly close!
I’ve been shooting small cal since around 1969. My Sheridan Silver Streak .20 was our go to varmint rifle. Still in my collection and still reliable. Two opinions. Break barrel air rifles are usually cheaply made (usually) and the tank hold can be difficult to master. PCP air rifles are now affordable for almost anyone and can be very accurate. My BSA R10 is a tack driver out to 75 yds. Pick you .22 based on FPE if you’re hunting.
I very much enjoyed it!!! The only thing I would have added is to do a quick explanation of foot pounds energy. Basically 25 fpe Break to 125 fpe powder. Awesome difference.
Great video!For those interested, I did have a look to see if anyone has already said this, but the formula is Velocity X velocity X weight of pellet ÷ 450240. So for example:- 1188 X 1188 x 40gr = 56453760 ÷ 450240 = 125.38ft lbs Respectively:- 1120 x 1120 x 9 = 11289600 ÷ 450240 = 25.07 ft lbs Leaps and bounds between a .22 springer and LR. Now a proper PCP air rifle could trump a .22LR but cost ten times that of a good .22LR
@@Weihrauch88 No, it really is true. Calculations suddenly make sense without any nonsense factors! Mindblowing, isn't it? ^^ What is the force that 1 psi exerts on a 1 square yard area? 1 atm does 100kN on 1 square meter. With that imperial nonsense you are still searching for the calculator... ^^ That is not about opinion... just facts.
@jackmclane1826 again in your humble opinion. The formula for FT LBS NOT JOULES. I've quoted has been used for decades by airgunners around the world. Move on mon 👍
@@Weihrauch88 With "around the world" you mean the US only? Because nobody else uses that imperial nonsense... For good reasons. ^^ Maybe you should move on? To metric! It takes just a short while getting used to it. But a reasonable being VERY QUICKLY sees the advantage.
"Oh, yeah? Well, my PCP with a slug can..." Who cares about your stupid PCP! For the total investment in that Huben K1, tanks, compressor, etc. You could buy a Ruger semi-automatic target rifle in .22 LR, a Vortex Viper sight and mounts and a shed load of ammunition. The point of this video is that a .22 break-barrel is not even close to as powerful as a 22 LR.
@@5yearsago5yearsago29 Nope. .22 shorts fire at 1,050 fps (+/_) with a 29 grain bullet. That puts the muzzle energy at 70 (ish) ft./lb. No break action air rifle can come close to that. Besides, the set up I mentioned is .22 LR (Long Rifle) - capable of muzzle velocities of 1600 fps with 40 grain projectiles. That calculates out to 227 ft./lb. True, modern heavy weight .22 air rifles can push a 35 or even a 40 grain slug up to 1000 fps, but at what cost? The rifle alone will cost in the $1,500 range, you will need a compressor that can push 4,500 psi - another $800 (minimum). Excluding optics, you are already at $2,300 for a functional platform. Now, consider that a Ruger target rifle with a vented thumb-hole stock costs $579, and you can see why high powered air rifles have never caught on here in the States... FYI - For your $2,300, you can set up a .300 Remington Ultra Mag complete with decent optics and a bi-pod. That will give you 3,000 FPS with a 210 Grain Berger VLD for a whopping muzzle energy of 4,200 Ft./Lb.
With that lightweight pellet, there's certainly no comparison with impact. It would be interesting to see a slower, heavier pellet, like something in the 14.5 to 18 grain pellet, and comparable LR round. It just seems like these are extremes on both ends. I'd guess the .22LR "wins" regardless, because something like the CCI copper at 21 grains is rated at 1850 FPS compared to a break barrel pushing a heavy pellet somewhere around 900FPS max (depending on rifle and pellet). I don't think even a mid priced PCP .22 air rifle is going to compete just on ballistics. The trade off is the sound. I have both a Marlin 60 and old Winchester 190. Both sound like a 22LR. I recently got a Gamo Swarm Bone Collector ( I prefer the wood stock over the Maxxim's plastic) because it's much quieter. All are fun plinkers, and all dispatch varmints. I used the LR to dispatch small livestock (goats) for butchering, but I wouldn't try it with the air rifle. I'd guess (I haven't tested) .22 short would be closer to a Swarm Magnum shooting a heavier pellet. ...just my 2 cents.
@@harleyme3163. My reply was in general terms, and for .22 air vs LR. Comparing 30 cal air (I haven't, but...)? C'mon. Anything in that size, 30-30, 308, 7.62x whatever is going to pack a lethal punch on medium/large hunting quarry to 500 yards or more. Those rounds are "slugs" 150-180 grains (again, generally). Air rifles are great, but aren't equals to firearms, for most purposes.
Nice video, info. My 22 year old son is trying to tell me that a .22 caliber pellet gun will do the same damage as a .22 caliber bullet, because the have similar velocities. This video proves my point.
How do you define "Same damage"? Destroying bricks or cardboard boxes? A .22 pellet can kill you just the same. The only difference is that the pellet wont leave powder traces on your hands, it cannot be linked back to any weapon, it can tear through a skull, rib cage bones, lungs, heart, throat, just as easily as a .22LR. And the pellet is quieter than any super-awesome suppressor you could affix on your .22LR handgun or rifle.
The formula is Energy = Weight times Velocity Squared divided by 450395 (fixed constant) 9gr pellet at 1120fps. = 25.1 ftlbs 40gr bullet at 1180fps= 123.7ftlbs
Another good, informative video. You keep it basic for someone who knows nothing about air rifles. Kudos to you. I see most of your followers seem to be very informative as well. Maybe the viewers could make videos themselves to inform us in stages, as you do. Great job.
Will Macluvinn, I doubt that there’s much venom involved in the responses. We’re all shooters, after all. (Great minds think alike.) Thanks for the great video, Ben!
Yeah but newer PCP models are getting a lot more close. The new Air Venturi Avenger in .25 cal can push a 33.95 grain pellet to about 960fps. I’m about to pick one up because they are quiet and a lot of fun, not to mention fully adjustable.
@@Fazman81 PCP guns arent worth the price compared to a .22 semi auto rifle. The follow up shots are way faster too. & Btw if you want something quiet just get a can to put on your Rifle shooting standard velocity. You've never heard quiet like this guaranteed
@@GrumpyTinashe If you want it extra quiet a longer barrel will help that dramatically when shooting subsonic ammunition with a can on. I'd say your biggest factor would be your barrel because you could use a suppressor with only two baffles and it would still function to suppress the muzzle blast noise pretty good.
This will get a lot of views it would of been a great video if you would of did the comparison to a high power fx gun with slugs that matches the same Gran as the bullet being used🤔 😎✌️👌👍
.30 cal 44 grain hollow point Griffin through a Hatsan 130 Vortex QE. Same weight pellet as the .22 bullet, but bigger. The rifle mentioned is the most powerful break-barrel made.
My Hatsan Torpedo is one of the most powerful production .22 breakbarrel air rifles and it doesn't come close to a .22LR. It makes about 45 joules. Lots of fun though. My Evanix Ibex and Benjamin Bulldog big bore PCP's are more powerful than a .22LR rifle but shoot slugs at a lower speed. I actually prefer my breakbarrel for the convenience and higher velocities / flatter trajectories. It's that we can't have firearms in my country without a permit or I would without hesitation swap my airguns for a .22LR. Lightweight and powerful enough. You lucky Americans!
Just getting into pellet guns at 66yr's old haven't messed with them sense I was 15 boy they have sure changed a lot. I bought a Viper and very quickly found out that break barrel was not for me PCP is the only way to fly. Didn't get a real bad-ass one yet but so far I find a great difference.
absolutely. The Break Barrels can be very challenging to get repeatable accuracy with. Not to mention the arm strength required for extended shooting sessions lol. I prefer PCP myself. If you haven't checked out my other videos you should give them a look. Iv shot a lot of different PCPs and you might just find you next airgun in one of my videos.. keep shooting. pewpew
Being a truck driver I carry that exact gamo on the truck in part for my bug out gear. But I also went to Amazon & bought 4 extra magazines and have 4 different pellet varietys in my gun case .
Love that Savage over/under 22/410. Great little gun. Ballistic energy formula. -- Weight of the projectile in grains times the square of the velocity in feet per second then divide that by 450450 to get energy in pounds per square inch. -- grains x fps^2 / 450450 = psi.
No Springer can touch a .22 short much less a .22lr when it comes to energy. A good pcp can get into .22 short territory especially with a heavier slug.
I have a Hatsan .25 PCP. I bought it 3 years ago on sale for $300. I bought a $100 scope for it and then bought about 9,000 pellets. My favorite is the H&N Grizzly 31 grain pellet. I have bagged at least 200 tree rats with it. Furthest one was a 100 yards away. Bagged two this morning in the yard. 1 was about 20 yards away and the second was about 40 yards away. First one made it about 15 ft before it bled out. 2nd one dropped in it's tracks and barely even twitched. My 6 year old granddaughter loves my squirrel stew. She has her own little BB gun .177 combo air rifle and is very good with it. I can hardly wait for when she is ready to bag a tree rat with it.
Hi, can you please do this in the metric system? Yes I can, here it is: 22 pellet 9gr = 0.0005831902kg (0.583grams) 1120fps = 341m/s -> (mv^2)/2 = 33.9 J 22 LR 40gr = 0.002591956kg (2.29grams) 1170fps = 357m/s -> (mv^2)/2 = 165 J
A cool comparison to do would be get a .45 or .50 pcp airgun. Then see what cartridge out of a firearm it takes to get the same penetration, sonic shock, etc...
That’s pretty easy to figure out, just using available info online. Long story short, the most powerful airgun I can find online is that Seneca Dragon Claw, which puts out 230ft/lb of force. For comparison, that is a good bit more powerful than a .22 LR, and is about equal to a .380 ACP. That’s still a “pocket gun” cartridge. For context, that is significantly less powerful than an average 9mm handgun. My edc gun (beretta 92A1 with a 5” barrel) with my edc ammo (speer gold dot 9mm +p 124gr jhps) has around 420 ft/lb of force. Nearly double, and that’s just a carry gun.
Very interesting video. I have several 22lr rifles and one break barrel 22 air rifle as well as several .177 air rifles. I like to use the air rifles for budget friendly target practice, but know that they don't have the power of the firearms. I've noticed a lot of people seem to really underestimate 22LR.
Excellent demonstration of the premise. In kinetic energy calculations, velocity has far more effect on the final value than does mass, but that's not to say that mass is inconsequential, as your experiment showed. Of two projectiles starting out at about the same velocity and covering the same distance, the heavier of the two will deliver more kinetic energy on target than the lighter one will. Additionally, the heavier slug will generally conserve momentum better over a given distance. A 9 grain pellet at 1100 fps will still handily dispatch a rodent or small game animal at a reasonable distance, but a 40 grain bullet can reach out a good deal farther and arrive on target with more "mustard" behind it than the lighter-weight pellet had when it left the muzzle.
Dudee not only is my airgun heavier than my 22 with multiple attachments I feel like it freaking kicks harder and hit harder even it's crazy without loud bang
An air powered projectile possesses less kinetic energy but dumps it all in the target if it doesn't pass through, whereas the powder propelled projectile will likely pass through small quarry and not realize it's total power within the game (overkill). I think both are deadly, though... just differently. Depends on application to the target. That's why 22lr ratshot was made.
@@ciro79 i think the point is to see how it measures up also i dont think you know what a pcp is .. because their are 50 cal pcp that will drop big game some 22 will bounce off of .. but your ignorant confidence is kinda cute
even PCP airgun does not have chanse vs 22lr,even vs 22 short.Velocity does not matter,just velocity.ft ibs energy is matter and mass. ft-ibs =v/m2 .Other thing is B.C of the bullet that is 5 times bigger in 22 lr than pallet.Pressure in 22lr barrel is around 1600 bar,even 22 short have around 1000 bar pressure so 22 lr have 1 mile range and better trajectory than any big bore PCP airgun.Powder is powder and compress air does not have chanse vs powder.
AFRO SNIPER.X I think the springer was a good choice, it has its own power rather than a PCP which requires you have a tank to fill the PCP , I can tell you a high power springer is tough on even a springer friendly scope ! A CZ rimfire as an example is much cheaper and more accurate than a comparably priced PCP ! Weight of 40 grain rimfire gives stability in flight as well as penetration ! Get into an FX Impact at 2 K plus a scope , compressor and the new FX slug that cost about the same as a 22LR cartridge , you have to love a PCP and have the money to go that route !
I've always loved the idea of those Savage over-under combos. Came here thinking about getting a .22 air rifle to supplement my 10/22 for hunting, left reconsidering a Savage combo gun. Thanks for posting this comparison!
you are shooting with a under 30j air gun, you should try with a 40gr slug on a good pcp, if you have a hollow point on the slug the results will speak for them self!!
You could spend all day comparing air rifles and fire arms , I enjoy both and they each offer a lot of entertainment, I also enjoy my primitive bows to compound bows , at the end of the day I prefer throwing my spear from a tree ! 😂 enjoyed your video !
i traded my Remington .22 for Gamo whisper air rifle ,22 no regrets what so ever! I can even shoot rabbits in my back yard with out been recognized ! 500 hollow point pallets for $6 cant beat the price and still does the job!
When you double the mass of a projectile going the same speed you double the energy. When you double the velocity of a projectile of the same mass you square the energy. Hope this helps someone
Perspective is everything. I'm looking at my powder guns and .22LR is the weakest one. But a .22LR is like shooting a cannon at a squirrel since a lowly .22 pellet will do the job nicely.
Even a .177 moving at only 650fps is enough for squirrels. I've been using Daisy 880's for squirrel hunting for 40 years. Cheap shooting and keeps the freezer full of meat year round.
Great video Ben. I agree with some of the other comments about using a hot PCP rifle. My thoughts is the closet comparison you can get would be a HOT .22 cal. PCP rifle using heavy slug ammo in the PCP rifle. The slugs have a much better ballistic coefficient which allows them to carry energy much further down range than the purposely designed diablo pellets. Maybe a video for the future.
@@ciro79 125j is only 92 ft lbs , that's easily suppased by the latest high power pcp rifles , AEA even just released a pcp pistol that puts out 150 ft lbs
@@joeschmoe8320 I don't see any connection between the stupid answer, and the fact that the 22 lr is a stronger rifle than the pellet gun. Case solved. Next please😊
I have a gamo 22cal and 177. The 177 I just picked up at a pawnshop for 40 bucks it's a gamo maxxum x10 . It's a deal at 40 dollars, hell the 3 to 9 power scope was worth 40 bucks.. watch them pawn shops, apparently not aware they are 200 new.. Keep plinking
Use Red Flight Zinc rounds with a little vaseline on back of round out of Break Barrel Rifle and it'll be very close to the 22long!!!!! Plus the Red Flight slugs are heavier than pellets.
Thanks for the comparative info. Very enlightening. I always thought that a .22LR is more powerful than a .22 air gun, this video confirmed my belief. Thanks for sharing.
Wasn't even a fair comparison. 9gr vs 40 gr. Why did he not use 40 gr pellets? Even I shoot 17 grain. Almost double what he used. He had to look hard for that light of a pellet. Let's compare the weakest possible against the .22lr
I am glad to come across this video. It is just the right length for the subject. Airguns are useful and fun, but the ads on the box might deceive someone who hasn't used one much.
The velocity would hav dropped to under 300 feet per second and probably bounced off the board. The marketing departments have pushed higher velocity for so long that is all uninformed people look at.
good points here. i totally agree with everything you said, but there are break barrel guns in .22 caliber that shoot over 1000fps. i am shooting a modest 14.5 grain out of my .22 shockwave but im guessing it's under 900fps.
@@GWRProductions-kg9pt you can have heavy pellets on airrifle like 1.7 gram or up to 40 grain and .22 lr have 2-2.3 gram or 40grain not big different. Is not fear to compare.
I just got in co2 replicas, and wow. I have so much fun with the kids and wife. Teaching safety and target practicing with pistols that I actually have. Cheaper to shoot pellets and bb's.
Nice demo. I'm certain that it all has everything to do with the mass/weight of the moving object. If two objects of different weight are traveling at the same speed, the lighter object will always be easier to stop than the heavier one. Example: Would it be easier to stop a VW Beetle traveling at 65 mph or a tractor trailer traveling at the same speed?
On the vw versus mass, not speed. Having driven a lot of different fire apparatus, if a water tender with average 1200 gallons, versus a standard class A pumper collided head on neither one would actually win, because mass would be nearly same but the additional motion of the water on the tender, which keeps moving forward adds some additional impact energy, so though never usable again neither vehicle wind. Water truck versus the semi scenario, the semi loses. Always unless semi is pulling some massive load like a house Then the house wins
Nice video but I think you should have used some H&N Sports Baracuda Hunter Extreme .22 cal. 18.52 gr pellets. I can take my break-over .22 cal. with these pellets and blow through 3/4" plywood at 25 yards. I love the heavier pellets. If you take just a drop of sewing machine oil and drop on the backside of the pellet you can double the power of your break-over pellet rifle.
I'm getting over 30 fpe. out of my Hatsan 125 chambered in .22, but even standard velocity .22 LR. averages around 120 fpe. That's about 4 times as powerful.
You compare .45 texan to a .45 long colt. Or .45 auto. .22 vs .45 dosent make sense. Just proves his point. Have to go way up in airgun caliber to equal performance of smaller gunpowder round. Caliber vs equal caliber air gun lose everytime.
For all the people hating on the air-con air rifle it is better for pest control such as pigeons as it does not make as much noise how much them away there is Were your advantage is,
@@stevensessoms4059 I've noticed a bit of a difference in my Marlin 881 rifle. It feeds 22 shorts as well as LR. I have to re-zero my scope when I change from shooting the shorts to the LR's. The shorts drop faster, or sooner, than the LR's on longer shots.
If you're looking for something comparable to an airgun, look into the Flobert round. A .22 Flobert would be about the same power as a strong airrifle.
How about making it a fair fight? Diablos come in 40 grain. I shoot 17 grain from my .22 air rifle. Almost double the grain you used. Couldn't you find a lighter pellet? You are doing a major disservice with the comparisons you do
Now do an unbiased test. You only show both angles for .22lr. You shoot heavy lead projectiles in .22lr, why not use a lead pellet to get the carry-thru power and sacrifice the initial MV?
I wish I could buy an air rifle in UK (without FAC) that does that muzzle velocity in .22 , if I was going to go to the trouble of getting a FAC I would just go for the .22 LR
even PCP airgun does not have chanse vs 22lr,even vs 22 short.Velocity does not matter,just velocity.ft ibs energy is matter and mass. ft-ibs =v/m2 .Other thing is B.C of the bullet that is 5 times bigger in 22 lr than pellet,that is aerodinamic of the bullet.Pressure in 22lr barrel is around 1600 bar,even 22 short have around 1000 bar pressure so 22 lr have 1 mile range and better trajectory than any big bore PCP airgun.Powder is powder and compress air does not have chanse vs powder.Also pellet gun does not have chance with pellets,maybe some strong airguns with bullets.
"There's a whole lot more that goes in to power on target than just velocity". Lol, the things that matter here are speed and mass. Don't make it sound so complicated.
Raptor pellets are gimmick, originally intended solely for the purpose of going supersonic out of the origional nitro pistol or whatever game calls it technology... they lose all accuracy as soon as they slow down enough for the sonic shockwave to catch up... there are plenty of excellent and much higher grain pellets in 22... Raptor is literally the worst test analog possible
A question comes to my mind. What difference would longer barrel make to the air gun. The longer the better. Would it be faster ? Kinetic energy comes mostly from the speed. Velocity squared ...mass has less to say.
The velocity will fall, the energy foot pounds will go up slightly... I know from experience that a 1000 fps rated air rifle that will take lighter projectiles up to that advertised velocity, will depreciate to more like ~800 fps with 18 gr hunting pellets. obviously still very effective against small game which is the intended use of 1000 fps guns pushing 18 gr hunting pellets, but the result on the plywood will be the same or less. I say potentially less because of sectional density and the expanding nature of the hunting pellets that are designed to mushroom. It will be slightly more energy foot-pounds but the pellets are designed to expand which will cause an energy dump. If the object is to penetrate a wooden board, you will need the correct velocity and energy foot-pounds coupled with the correct sectional density of the projectile itself, namely something that is pointed and designed to retain its shape. Rven if the 18 gr hunting pellet does penetrate the wooden board, at this point the test medium will be obscuring the real difference -- an 18 gr @ 800 fps is about 25 ft-lbs, a 40 gr (.22 LR) at 1100 fps is 107 ft-lbs. Metric/SI: 1 ft-lbs = 1.35 joules. 1000 fps = 304 m/s
When talking about the grain of a .22 cal bullet or pellet, that's where he needs to test with something like a 16 grain jumbo / beast pellet. I forget who makes them, but that's the heaviest pellet I've been able to find. An that was actually a .177 pellet for pcp airguns, so they may actually make a 20+ grain .22 cal pellet.
Suggestion: next video figure out the FPE for both, so that you can offer a more fleshed out and informative video. I could have told you the firearm has more power without the video.
Actually you can buy powder assisted pellets and they tore up .22 lr. They are roughly .13 a piece so not cheap to fire but far more powerful out of an air rifle compared to a .22 lr
My father learned to shoot on a Savage .22/410ga over-under; It was 'lost' to a cousin during an unfortunate location of the gun during the disbursement of an estate. I searched for years to surprise him with a Savage .22/410ga and could never come up with one. After 3 years, I settled on a Savage .22mag/20ga and got one in decent shape... It was a birthday gift that nearly made him cry. He never got to shoot it as he passed away that winter but I now have it and I make sure to take it out grouse hunting whenever I go. Great little gun. Seeing your .22/410ga makes me miss him because he always loved it and I wish I could have found one for him.
I stopped playing with airguns when I was like 15, I'm gonna go buy one again.
You mean those daisy red Ryders???cause yah nah that's not an airgun or crosman lol but there ok lol
@@michaelvasquez3995 I had a red rider when I was like 5. I had my first .22 rifle and .410 shotgun when I was 7 though.
Airguns are good for training porpuses, and ther are some wich you can even kill a Recone with. even big game.
I used to play with Red Ryder's, the infamous pumps and a c02 powered rifle as a kid/teen. Then got into "real" firearms. Now I am 37 and recently got 2 new break barrel pellet rifles. A Ruger .22 pellet rifle and a Cross F4 .177 Rifle, Crossman was 90 and Ruger was 150 at Walmart. Also got thousands of rounds of ammo. I have had days and days and days of fun from the same ammo I got the day I got the rifles.
It used to cost what, 50 bucks to 1000 bucks for a day at the range depending on ones budget and toys?
I can shoot all day now for 6 dollars. And have fun too.
So go for it man! Go get a bad ass break barrel and have fun, but remember, these aren't the "toy" air rifles we had as kids lol
P.S. First shot gun was my 12th Christmas. My dad got me a single shot 12 gauge shot gun.
To get comparable muzzle energy and especially similar damage to the target, you need to use not the lightest bullet, but a heavier one. With increasing bullet weight, the muzzle energy gradually grows to a certain point. Moreover, a heavy bullet better retains its energy over long distances. A light bullet almost immediately begins to lose its speed and, accordingly, muzzle energy.
Plus, you can use an expansive bullet (destroyer) then the wound channel will be much wider, especially at the exit.
In a word, thanks for the experiment, but it was set incorrectly.
A 10.5gr. or 13.34gr. 177 pellet would have penetrated the plywood, a Stoeger or H&N copper coated 10.5 will pass through a fir 2x4, lightweight pellets are useless, mostly inaccurate and shed velocity very quickly.
@@kevink552 I've had all kinds of break barrels and none have the power to penetrate a 2x4. Not even that close. Not even my Beeman Kodiak with 32 ft/lbs of K.E. I get excellent accuracy with H&N lead free pellets. I prefer them for my indoor range. I have a homemade backstop that consists of a box with old jeans in the front, and a steal plate in the back. I tried lead pellets and after going through the jeans they hit the plate and splatter sending pieces out the side of the box. But the lead free are much, much tougher and they only the deform on the plate.
even PCP airgun does not have chanse vs 22lr,even vs 22 short.Velocity does not matter,just velocity.ft ibs energy is matter and mass. ft-ibs =v/m2 .Other thing is B.C of the bullet that is 5 times bigger in 22 lr than pallet.Pressure in 22lr barrel is around 1600 bar,even 22 short have around 1000 bar pressure so 22 lr have 1 mile range and better trajectory than any big bore PCP airgun.Powder is powder and compress air does not have chanse vs powder.
@@ciro79 Well, be careful with that statement. While the more popular PCPs generally make less power than a .22 lr, there are big bore PCPs that make over 500 ft/lbs of K.E. Granted, those are very loud and not super popular, but they are readily available.
@@stanpotter7764 they now have big bore .50 and up that can make way more than 500 ft lbs , AEA ZEUS .72 cal can put out 1800ftpbs
The most satisfying sound ever is the sound of a .22 ricochet
Also a scary sound lol
Sounds like an old western movie, music for the ears! 😌
@@jaysully37 true, reminds me of those old 70’s action movies
Not if it's your head its flying over, many times out in the wilds of NZ shooting rabbits I've had .22 ricochet zipping over, a few times directly from a shooter shooting at pest on lakes his angle from my home, he found it impossible to believe what I'd told him, it all boils down to experience and common since.
I think you should also have tried some of the heaviest .22 pellets in the air gun. You would have lost velocity but the extra pellet weight may have helped penetration.
still,no chance vs 22lr.Even subsonic 22 lr.Even with stronger PCP
@@ciro79 I use 21.5 grain pellets in a Korean Pcp at roughly 1200fps and that's giving me close to 70ft/lbs . I can use heavier pellets/slugs and get a higher velocity , I think the best I got was 105 ft/lbs with a 32 grain korean pellet/slug . Not here to argue, but it's possible to get close to sub 22 ammo with air in 22 cal in pcp . The problem with that kind of power is I only get six shots and then I need a top up .
Newer tech in air guns are getting very powerful AEA just released a 9mm /.357 pistol that shoots an 82 grain slug or pellet @ 900 fps and puts out 150 ft lbs
And their most powerful gun is the AEA ZEUS .72 cal @ 1800 ft lbs of energy
@@bertbccfu9564 air is limited by max preassure forewer.22 lr have 1600 bar in the barrel so firearms can have big energy from small caliber and that is impossible for airgun .
Use the nickel copper 28.1 grain 22 pellet. At 700 fps its still nasty af.
That ricochet sound is superb. Just that alone warrants having a .22.
lol. ... I was like ... damn ... sweet. Did that just happen.
Lol yup made me think of old spaghetti westerns. Pewwww zinggg
@@patriotrob7066 Right!
Me too I was like sweet lol
Good luck finding ammo though!
One benefit of an airrifle over a 22lr: The Ammo is basically the cheapest you can get (starting at around 1 cent per shot) and you just need to break the barrel to be ready to fire. You can literaly carry hundreds of rounds in one small pocket. For a survival situation where you need to hunt down small game, this really comes in handy.
FPS means diddly squat any shooter knows that without even bothering to watch the video. It's ENERGY that's the key. The higher the ft/lbs the better. Even the it takes a decent sized calibre at high ft/lbs to create decent stopping power. That said we hunt small game very successfully even with .177 sub 12 ft/lb air rifles in the UK. Rabbits at 40/50 yards are feasable with a head shot.
i've hunted squirrels with a .177 with no problem all headshots from 30 yards or more and all dropped like i had shot them with a .22 LR.
The biggest I have seen in person taken down with a .177 break barrel was a badger here in Idaho. It was with my Gamo Whisper
@@gangstalkingchronicles6949at what distance please?
9 grains VS 40 grains, LOL. That’s some serious difference.
This, next time use a slug
@@Tuur75 FX Impact mk2 with power plenum and 36gr slugs
Make nooo absolute sense...
There is H&N piledrivers at 35ft lbs
Replica Tactical Canada I said the same thing lol friggin common sense right
Love the .22 Pellet Gamo Swarm Magnum rifle. The “Swarm” is due to the magazines that hold and automatically load 10 pellets in the rifle.
Take a 9”x12” bake pan and lined with blocks of 1” thick Plumber’s Putty (Home Depot). Slap a sheet of 4-6 targets on the Putty, set up a safe backstop, step back 20’-50’ (even in your basement or garage), put on your eye protection and have fun.
When the target pellet holes start to stack pellets, grab needle nose pliers, remove spent pellets, smooth the Putty and do it all over again.
No lead dust, no ear protection needed, no disturbing neighbors.
Accessories such as a better scope and additional magazines are suggested. Oil the moving parts every so often and enjoy.
Hope this helps anyone interested.
Yes, it is based on the Kinetic energy being equal to 1/2 mass * velocity^2. So, if for example, you take my RTI PCP airgun that can shoot a 33.96 grain JSB diablo between 810 and 1205 fps at the barrel, you get about 109 foot pounds of energy for the PCP air gun at the high end, and 123 foot-pounds for the 22 caliber firearm. The highest power 22 cal slug barreled airgun I have shot does about 285 foot-pounds at the barrel, but the accuracy was only about 4 MOA.
Two plus two is four minus one dats quick maffs
I seriously doubt your RTI PCP can shoot a 33.96 grain JSB pellet at 1205 fps. I have a FX Impact in . 22 cal. I have done just about everything to increase its power. I'm running the 800mm long tensioned barrel, the 720 power plenum , the FX power block , Tungsten hammer , slug power kit , Pin probe, Huma air larger dual air transfer port. At 200 bar regulator pressure the highest speed I've achieved with the 33.96 grain JSB pellets is just over 1120 fps or 95 foot pounds.
1:50 this bullet sound... ohh lovely
.22 pellet goes up to 18-20 grains. That will pass through plywood.
Actually you can get .22 pellets in 40 grain
I agree with you, this guy decided to use the lightest pellets ever made lol
and even 28 grain easily , that ,on a Pcp could kill a boar at 60 meters , just saying , I have a not too powerful one that makes the job , and I use 18 grain pellets , so , you can not compare a F1 to climb a mountain against a hummer , and so on
Facts.
@ASEK33 c9p I think you missed the point , if the break barrel rifle he’s using is not powerful enough to launch same weight pellets at the same speed , you can not compare , period . I have a break barrel one that shoots at 309 meter per second with heavy pellets , that , passes plywood through and my fucking head at 20 meter distance , and of course a good pcp , that is still an air rifle , could develop same or more power than a fire gun , you can find pcps with more than 90 jul of power , even nitro piston on break barrels , just google it
I have a high powered break barrel (Ruger Blackhawk) and a .22 (Ruger 10/22 take down). No comparison in expended energy at the target; the .22 hits way harder. Both are great guns, both are really fun. Thanks for a great vid.
You are one of the first persons that I've ever seen do this kind of comparison on UA-cam excellent video and now I know for sure that a 22 bullet is more powerful than any breakdown 22 pellet rifle
Yep
Yeah, and not just a little more powerful than a pellet gun, but a LOT more powerful, not even in the same league at all. Muzzle energy for a .22 rim fire is what, about 125 ft. lbs? Just trying to remember what it said on the box of ammo. Something like that anyway. And a break barrel .22 pellet rifle, maybe 25 ft. lbs with a heavy pellet, or so? That's not even slightly close!
@@trevorjameson3213 But MUCH dirtier and MUCH louder than an air rifle..
Savage model 25! I have several in different calibers, coolest gun! I bought my son's model 24's in .222 and 20 ga shotgun. So cool!
Kinetic Energy=1/2(mass)x(velocity)squared.
Yes I was looking for this comment
@@benoorehek8475 v = Δs/Δt
26-125 ft-lbf
ft_lb_energy = mass_in_grains * (speed_in_fps / 671)^2. So,
22 pellet : 9*(1120/671)^2=25 fpe
22 LR : 40*(1170/671)^2=122 fpe
@@mychevysparkevdidntcatchfi1489 did I ask you to get involved
I’ve been shooting small cal since around 1969. My Sheridan Silver Streak .20 was our go to varmint rifle. Still in my collection and still reliable. Two opinions. Break barrel air rifles are usually cheaply made (usually) and the tank hold can be difficult to master. PCP air rifles are now affordable for almost anyone and can be very accurate. My BSA R10 is a tack driver out to 75 yds. Pick you .22 based on FPE if you’re hunting.
I very much enjoyed it!!! The only thing I would have added is to do a quick explanation of foot pounds energy. Basically 25 fpe Break to 125 fpe powder. Awesome difference.
Great video!For those interested, I did have a look to see if anyone has already said this, but the formula is Velocity X velocity X weight of pellet ÷ 450240.
So for example:- 1188 X 1188 x 40gr = 56453760 ÷ 450240 = 125.38ft lbs
Respectively:- 1120 x 1120 x 9 = 11289600 ÷ 450240 = 25.07 ft lbs
Leaps and bounds between a .22 springer and LR. Now a proper PCP air rifle could trump a .22LR but cost ten times that of a good .22LR
Or just velocity²/2 * mass = Energy in Joules.
When using m/s and kg as inputs.
No 45xxx-nonsensefactor necessary when using a proper unit system.
@@jackmclane1826 in your humble opinion.
@@Weihrauch88 No, it really is true. Calculations suddenly make sense without any nonsense factors!
Mindblowing, isn't it? ^^
What is the force that 1 psi exerts on a 1 square yard area?
1 atm does 100kN on 1 square meter.
With that imperial nonsense you are still searching for the calculator... ^^
That is not about opinion... just facts.
@jackmclane1826 again in your humble opinion. The formula for FT LBS NOT JOULES. I've quoted has been used for decades by airgunners around the world.
Move on mon 👍
@@Weihrauch88 With "around the world" you mean the US only? Because nobody else uses that imperial nonsense... For good reasons. ^^
Maybe you should move on? To metric! It takes just a short while getting used to it. But a reasonable being VERY QUICKLY sees the advantage.
Redo this vid with a Huben K1 .22 shooting 35 grain slugs at a 1000ft/s.....
You'll be amazed how far airguns have come....
"Oh, yeah? Well, my PCP with a slug can..." Who cares about your stupid PCP! For the total investment in that Huben K1, tanks, compressor, etc. You could buy a Ruger semi-automatic target rifle in .22 LR, a Vortex Viper sight and mounts and a shed load of ammunition. The point of this video is that a .22 break-barrel is not even close to as powerful as a 22 LR.
@@Coyotekins HA HA HA, nice!
@@coolhand5855 just salty that airguns are stronger than your epic 22 short
@@5yearsago5yearsago29 Nope. .22 shorts fire at 1,050 fps (+/_) with a 29 grain bullet. That puts the muzzle energy at 70 (ish) ft./lb. No break action air rifle can come close to that.
Besides, the set up I mentioned is .22 LR (Long Rifle) - capable of muzzle velocities of 1600 fps with 40 grain projectiles. That calculates out to 227 ft./lb.
True, modern heavy weight .22 air rifles can push a 35 or even a 40 grain slug up to 1000 fps, but at what cost? The rifle alone will cost in the $1,500 range, you will need a compressor that can push 4,500 psi - another $800 (minimum). Excluding optics, you are already at $2,300 for a functional platform. Now, consider that a Ruger target rifle with a vented thumb-hole stock costs $579, and you can see why high powered air rifles have never caught on here in the States...
FYI - For your $2,300, you can set up a .300 Remington Ultra Mag complete with decent optics and a bi-pod. That will give you 3,000 FPS with a 210 Grain Berger VLD for a whopping muzzle energy of 4,200 Ft./Lb.
@@coolhand5855 ok
With that lightweight pellet, there's certainly no comparison with impact. It would be interesting to see a slower, heavier pellet, like something in the 14.5 to 18 grain pellet, and comparable LR round. It just seems like these are extremes on both ends. I'd guess the .22LR "wins" regardless, because something like the CCI copper at 21 grains is rated at 1850 FPS compared to a break barrel pushing a heavy pellet somewhere around 900FPS max (depending on rifle and pellet). I don't think even a mid priced PCP .22 air rifle is going to compete just on ballistics. The trade off is the sound. I have both a Marlin 60 and old Winchester 190. Both sound like a 22LR. I recently got a Gamo Swarm Bone Collector ( I prefer the wood stock over the Maxxim's plastic) because it's much quieter. All are fun plinkers, and all dispatch varmints. I used the LR to dispatch small livestock (goats) for butchering, but I wouldn't try it with the air rifle. I'd guess (I haven't tested) .22 short would be closer to a Swarm Magnum shooting a heavier pellet. ...just my 2 cents.
that .30 cal benjamin rifle fires a 58 grain slug almost 3000 fps LOL air guns are undoubted to be more lethal that most forearms today lol
@@harleyme3163. My reply was in general terms, and for .22 air vs LR. Comparing 30 cal air (I haven't, but...)? C'mon. Anything in that size, 30-30, 308, 7.62x whatever is going to pack a lethal punch on medium/large hunting quarry to 500 yards or more. Those rounds are "slugs" 150-180 grains (again, generally). Air rifles are great, but aren't equals to firearms, for most purposes.
Nice video, info. My 22 year old son is trying to tell me that a .22 caliber pellet gun will do the same damage as a .22 caliber bullet, because the have similar velocities. This video proves my point.
Or just get a ping pong ball, and a golf ball. Ask him which he wants you to throw at his head, at the same velocity :)
How do you define "Same damage"? Destroying bricks or cardboard boxes?
A .22 pellet can kill you just the same. The only difference is that the pellet wont leave powder traces on your hands, it cannot be linked back to any weapon, it can tear through a skull, rib cage bones, lungs, heart, throat, just as easily as a .22LR. And the pellet is quieter than any super-awesome suppressor you could affix on your .22LR handgun or rifle.
The formula is Energy = Weight times Velocity Squared divided by 450395 (fixed constant)
9gr pellet at 1120fps. = 25.1 ftlbs
40gr bullet at 1180fps= 123.7ftlbs
Not bad for a little pellet
Another good, informative video. You keep it basic for someone who knows nothing about air rifles. Kudos to you. I see most of your followers seem to be very informative as well. Maybe the viewers could make videos themselves to inform us in stages, as you do.
Great job.
Will Macluvinn, I doubt that there’s much venom involved in the responses. We’re all shooters, after all. (Great minds think alike.)
Thanks for the great video, Ben!
My dad always said his air gun was just as powerful and this is exactly what I figured would be the case. Thanks for doing the research.
Yeah but newer PCP models are getting a lot more close. The new Air Venturi Avenger in .25 cal can push a 33.95 grain pellet to about 960fps. I’m about to pick one up because they are quiet and a lot of fun, not to mention fully adjustable.
@@Fazman81 PCP guns arent worth the price compared to a .22 semi auto rifle. The follow up shots are way faster too. & Btw if you want something quiet just get a can to put on your Rifle shooting standard velocity. You've never heard quiet like this guaranteed
@@mrwayne5158Hi
Could you please explain about the can how to do it so it's quieter?
Thanks
@@GrumpyTinashe If you want it extra quiet a longer barrel will help that dramatically when shooting subsonic ammunition with a can on. I'd say your biggest factor would be your barrel because you could use a suppressor with only two baffles and it would still function to suppress the muzzle blast noise pretty good.
This will get a lot of views it would of been a great video if you would of did the comparison to a high power fx gun with slugs that matches the same Gran as the bullet being used🤔 😎✌️👌👍
I was thinking that same thing but I understand what his point was
I got a seizure reading this
But then you have an $800 price difference.
@@brandonconway4822 shoot a couple thousand round it equal out about the same 😉
.30 cal 44 grain hollow point Griffin through a Hatsan 130 Vortex QE. Same weight pellet as the .22 bullet, but bigger.
The rifle mentioned is the most powerful break-barrel made.
My Hatsan Torpedo is one of the most powerful production .22 breakbarrel air rifles and it doesn't come close to a .22LR. It makes about 45 joules. Lots of fun though. My Evanix Ibex and Benjamin Bulldog big bore PCP's are more powerful than a .22LR rifle but shoot slugs at a lower speed. I actually prefer my breakbarrel for the convenience and higher velocities / flatter trajectories. It's that we can't have firearms in my country without a permit or I would without hesitation swap my airguns for a .22LR. Lightweight and powerful enough. You lucky Americans!
This was very helpful, I think the .22 air rifle is exactly what I need for the backyard pest control.
Just getting into pellet guns at 66yr's old haven't messed with them sense I was 15 boy they have sure changed a lot. I bought a Viper and very quickly found out that break barrel was not for me PCP is the only way to fly. Didn't get a real bad-ass one yet but so far I find a great difference.
absolutely. The Break Barrels can be very challenging to get repeatable accuracy with. Not to mention the arm strength required for extended shooting sessions lol.
I prefer PCP myself. If you haven't checked out my other videos you should give them a look. Iv shot a lot of different PCPs and you might just find you next airgun in one of my videos.. keep shooting. pewpew
Nice, I’ve got the gen 1 gamo magnum .22, it’s a lot of fun to shoot. The crazy thing is that I spent more on it than my .22 LR rifle.
Yeah they can run much more than actual firearms, but the quality is there. Especially on the Gen 2 should’ve went with that one hehe(: Stewp
I hear ya. In 1976 I bought a Ruger 1022 ranch for,,,,…. Wait for it…….$54.00. Yup!
Being a truck driver I carry that exact gamo on the truck in part for my bug out gear. But I also went to Amazon & bought 4 extra magazines and have 4 different pellet varietys in my gun case .
Should have used a heavy pellet. The light pellets have weak penetration.
wont increase the power though, as it will be moving slower
@@doomfathertm8771 Depends I think. The lighter pellets might not be that efficient, or not using the gun's full potential.
@Gen Vuelham not legal in UK
@@doomfathertm8771 and your point is...
Love that Savage over/under 22/410. Great little gun. Ballistic energy formula. -- Weight of the projectile in grains times the square of the velocity in feet per second then divide that by 450450 to get energy in pounds per square inch. -- grains x fps^2 / 450450 = psi.
Make it a .22 fx impact throwing a 36 grain Nelson slug! Bet ya see a difference
yep lol
Naw fx are too weak need the korean rifles
I love that rifle .22 and shotgun combo
No Springer can touch a .22 short much less a .22lr when it comes to energy. A good pcp can get into .22 short territory especially with a heavier slug.
no they cant
I have a Springer 25 cal hatsan it shoots 34.grains 650 fps through my crony tgats 31fpe thats the most powerful springer
if I put cci velocitors in my rifle there 40grain and fly 1600fps around 240fpe
Very true itll it'll surpass 22 short my 25 cal hatsan pcp is at43 fpe that pushes a34 grain at 750fps i can turn it up to 60 fpe
@@Thekmalone82 They are 32 grain and closer to 200 ft/lbs
I have a Hatsan .25 PCP. I bought it 3 years ago on sale for $300. I bought a $100 scope for it and then bought about 9,000 pellets. My favorite is the H&N Grizzly 31 grain pellet. I have bagged at least 200 tree rats with it. Furthest one was a 100 yards away. Bagged two this morning in the yard. 1 was about 20 yards away and the second was about 40 yards away. First one made it about 15 ft before it bled out. 2nd one dropped in it's tracks and barely even twitched. My 6 year old granddaughter loves my squirrel stew. She has her own little BB gun .177 combo air rifle and is very good with it. I can hardly wait for when she is ready to bag a tree rat with it.
ft_lb_energy = mass_in_grains * (speed_in_fps / 671)^2. So,
22 pellet : 9*(1120/671)^2=25 fpe
22 LR : 40*(1170/671)^2=122 fpe
Hi, can you please do this in the metric system? Yes I can, here it is:
22 pellet 9gr = 0.0005831902kg (0.583grams) 1120fps = 341m/s -> (mv^2)/2 = 33.9 J
22 LR 40gr = 0.002591956kg (2.29grams) 1170fps = 357m/s -> (mv^2)/2 = 165 J
wait.. those sound effects hitting the ground in old movies are actually spot on
A cool comparison to do would be get a .45 or .50 pcp airgun. Then see what cartridge out of a firearm it takes to get the same penetration, sonic shock, etc...
That’s pretty easy to figure out, just using available info online. Long story short, the most powerful airgun I can find online is that Seneca Dragon Claw, which puts out 230ft/lb of force.
For comparison, that is a good bit more powerful than a .22 LR, and is about equal to a .380 ACP. That’s still a “pocket gun” cartridge.
For context, that is significantly less powerful than an average 9mm handgun. My edc gun (beretta 92A1 with a 5” barrel) with my edc ammo (speer gold dot 9mm +p 124gr jhps) has around 420 ft/lb of force. Nearly double, and that’s just a carry gun.
Very interesting video. I have several 22lr rifles and one break barrel 22 air rifle as well as several .177 air rifles. I like to use the air rifles for budget friendly target practice, but know that they don't have the power of the firearms. I've noticed a lot of people seem to really underestimate 22LR.
Excellent demonstration of the premise. In kinetic energy calculations, velocity has far more effect on the final value than does mass, but that's not to say that mass is inconsequential, as your experiment showed. Of two projectiles starting out at about the same velocity and covering the same distance, the heavier of the two will deliver more kinetic energy on target than the lighter one will. Additionally, the heavier slug will generally conserve momentum better over a given distance. A 9 grain pellet at 1100 fps will still handily dispatch a rodent or small game animal at a reasonable distance, but a 40 grain bullet can reach out a good deal farther and arrive on target with more "mustard" behind it than the lighter-weight pellet had when it left the muzzle.
Dudee not only is my airgun heavier than my 22 with multiple attachments I feel like it freaking kicks harder and hit harder even it's crazy without loud bang
Try .22 slugs of 30grain in a pcp of more than 45 joules
Seriously that can drop someone
@@itzthekingjayroyalty11
There are 12.7mm, 300 joule ones on the market, it's pretty cool.
An air powered projectile possesses less kinetic energy but dumps it all in the target if it doesn't pass through, whereas the powder propelled projectile will likely pass through small quarry and not realize it's total power within the game (overkill). I think both are deadly, though... just differently. Depends on application to the target. That's why 22lr ratshot was made.
Good video idea. Maybe a hot pcp vs powder burner next time.
Just what im thinking
No chance,22 lr outperform any PCP.
Thats what i was hoping to see
@@ciro79 i think the point is to see how it measures up also i dont think you know what a pcp is .. because their are 50 cal pcp that will drop big game some 22 will bounce off of .. but your ignorant confidence is kinda cute
ciro wrong
I have always compared the 22 short with the 22 break barrel air gun. The impact power is similar, and the FPS is similar.
I feel like you should have used a 22 caliber PCP that would have been a better matchup
even PCP airgun does not have chanse vs 22lr,even vs 22 short.Velocity does not matter,just velocity.ft ibs energy is matter and mass. ft-ibs =v/m2 .Other thing is B.C of the bullet that is 5 times bigger in 22 lr than pallet.Pressure in 22lr barrel is around 1600 bar,even 22 short have around 1000 bar pressure so 22 lr have 1 mile range and better trajectory than any big bore PCP airgun.Powder is powder and compress air does not have chanse vs powder.
@@ciro79 I think they should redo the test to a 25 PCP vs 22 a better match
@@TYLERafrosniperxKELLUM i think that 25 pellet gun does not chance also,maybe some with bulets,not pellets.
@@ciro79 not even close to true, many pcp air rifles are 200-1000 FPE, 22 short is 50 fpe and lr is around 90
AFRO SNIPER.X I think the springer was a good choice, it has its own power rather than a PCP which requires you have a tank to fill the PCP , I can tell you a high power springer is tough on even a springer friendly scope ! A CZ rimfire as an example is much cheaper and more accurate than a comparably priced PCP ! Weight of 40 grain rimfire gives stability in flight as well as penetration ! Get into an FX Impact at 2 K plus a scope , compressor and the new FX slug that cost about the same as a 22LR cartridge , you have to love a PCP and have the money to go that route !
Never thought i would say this, but im getting my .22 out. And shooting dirt. Those richochet sounds are amazing. Wish me and my eyes good luck
I've always loved the idea of those Savage over-under combos. Came here thinking about getting a .22 air rifle to supplement my 10/22 for hunting, left reconsidering a Savage combo gun. Thanks for posting this comparison!
👍👍👍
you are shooting with a under 30j air gun, you should try with a 40gr slug on a good pcp, if you have a hollow point on the slug the results will speak for them self!!
You should try a 22 PCP like Fx Impact with slugs vs 22 LR . That would be a cool comparison. Good comparison on the break barrel vs 22 LR.
Still ,no chance vs 22lr.Preassure in 22lr bore is 1600bar and 125J of energy for even subsonic ammo,up to 280J for CCI Stinger ammo.
You could spend all day comparing air rifles and fire arms , I enjoy both and they each offer a lot of entertainment, I also enjoy my primitive bows to compound bows , at the end of the day I prefer throwing my spear from a tree ! 😂 enjoyed your video !
love the sound of the ricochet!
I can get cool ricochet sound whacking small rocks with a tennis racket... gunfighter with no gun.
i traded my Remington .22 for Gamo whisper air rifle ,22 no regrets what so ever! I can even shoot rabbits in my back yard with out been recognized ! 500 hollow point pallets for $6 cant beat the price and still does the job!
I appreciate the upload, but, I don't see the need for it since it's hard to find anyone who thinks that a 22A can be more effective than a 22LR .
I apsolutley agree.Even the stronger PCP pellet gun up to 25cal does not have chance against good old 22lr.
Love those savage 22/410 combos my first gun
When you double the mass of a projectile going the same speed you double the energy. When you double the velocity of a projectile of the same mass you square the energy. Hope this helps someone
Which is kind of a mind-bending thought, if you think about it. Like why can't it just be linear just like the mass?!
@@nickmotsarsky4382 lol agreed but I guess if physics were simple we would already be on mars lol
It helps. Awesome comment
evet oldu teşekkür ederim..bu bilgi hiçbir yerde yok..
Perspective is everything. I'm looking at my powder guns and .22LR is the weakest one. But a .22LR is like shooting a cannon at a squirrel since a lowly .22 pellet will do the job nicely.
Even a .177 moving at only 650fps is enough for squirrels. I've been using Daisy 880's for squirrel hunting for 40 years. Cheap shooting and keeps the freezer full of meat year round.
Great video Ben. I agree with some of the other comments about using a hot PCP rifle. My thoughts is the closet comparison you can get would be a HOT .22 cal. PCP rifle using heavy slug ammo in the PCP rifle. The slugs have a much better ballistic coefficient which allows them to carry energy much further down range than the purposely designed diablo pellets. Maybe a video for the future.
Maybe a sumatra 2500 22 cal?
Still ,no chance vs 22lr.Preassure in 22lr bore is 1600bar and 125J of energy for even subsonic ammo,up to 280J for CCI Stinger ammo.
@@ciro79 125j is only 92 ft lbs , that's easily suppased by the latest high power pcp rifles , AEA even just released a pcp pistol that puts out 150 ft lbs
@@bertbccfu9564 caliber????
@@joeschmoe8320 I don't see any connection between the stupid answer, and the fact that the 22 lr is a stronger rifle than the pellet gun. Case solved. Next please😊
I also bought one and that thing is freaking awesome 👍🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻
"Camo mangum?" Is that like Chiclets or Double Bubble for guys in treestands?
Gamo not camo
@@doomfathertm8771 : Whoosh
Mangum??????
@@daphicus Yeah he obviously had a typo in the video there. Lol.. "Camo Mangum'..
I have a gamo 22cal and 177. The 177 I just picked up at a pawnshop for 40 bucks it's a gamo maxxum x10 . It's a deal at 40 dollars, hell the 3 to 9 power scope was worth 40 bucks.. watch them pawn shops, apparently not aware they are 200 new..
Keep plinking
Use Red Flight Zinc rounds with a little vaseline on back of round out of Break Barrel Rifle and it'll be very close to the 22long!!!!! Plus the Red Flight slugs are heavier than pellets.
I have the Crossman 1322 and the 1377 multi pump pistols. Your right. I do the same thing. Ten pumps and a little dab.
Thanks for the comparative info. Very enlightening. I always thought that a .22LR is more powerful than a .22 air gun, this video confirmed my belief. Thanks for sharing.
I have been wanting to see one of these comparison for a long time.
Wasn't even a fair comparison. 9gr vs 40 gr. Why did he not use 40 gr pellets? Even I shoot 17 grain. Almost double what he used. He had to look hard for that light of a pellet.
Let's compare the weakest possible against the .22lr
There’s a video with a dude shooting hogs with a 50 and 30 cal air rifle. Badass
9 grains @ 1100 FPS = 24.19 FPE
40 grains @ 1100 FPS = 107.5 FPE
That's a 83.31 FPE difference. No wonder.
I am glad to come across this video. It is just the right length for the subject.
Airguns are useful and fun, but the ads on the box might deceive someone who hasn't
used one much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
why didnt you use a lead pellet that about the same weight as the .22 lr. ?
The velocity would hav dropped to under 300 feet per second and probably bounced off the board. The marketing departments have pushed higher velocity for so long that is all uninformed people look at.
Because there aren't any.
that is not matter because in that case airgun would have poor speed.
good points here. i totally agree with everything you said, but there are break barrel guns in .22 caliber that shoot over 1000fps. i am shooting a modest 14.5 grain out of my .22 shockwave but im guessing it's under 900fps.
If you look in the real specs of those 1000+ FPS break barrels you’ll see that’s with light alloy pellets not real lead pellets
The scenery is awesome 😎
I would have used a 22 PCP with a 40-grain pellet to have a more accurate comparison.
thank you was just looking at these tonight
Just look at the energy (4_5 times more)!
5 times to be exact
@@GWRProductions-kg9pt you can have heavy pellets on airrifle like 1.7 gram or up to 40 grain and .22 lr have 2-2.3 gram or 40grain not big different. Is not fear to compare.
@@thetruthmaster1734 too heavy for a 25 ft-lb air rifle
I just got in co2 replicas, and wow. I have so much fun with the kids and wife. Teaching safety and target practicing with pistols that I actually have. Cheaper to shoot pellets and bb's.
Nice demo. I'm certain that it all has everything to do with the mass/weight of the moving object. If two objects of different weight are traveling at the same speed, the lighter object will always be easier to stop than the heavier one. Example: Would it be easier to stop a VW Beetle traveling at 65 mph or a tractor trailer traveling at the same speed?
On the vw versus mass, not speed. Having driven a lot of different fire apparatus, if a water tender with average 1200 gallons, versus a standard class A pumper collided head on neither one would actually win, because mass would be nearly same but the additional motion of the water on the tender, which keeps moving forward adds some additional impact energy, so though never usable again neither vehicle wind. Water truck versus the semi scenario, the semi loses. Always unless semi is pulling some massive load like a house
Then the house wins
Nice video but I think you should have used some H&N Sports Baracuda Hunter Extreme .22 cal. 18.52 gr pellets. I can take my break-over .22 cal. with these pellets and blow through 3/4" plywood at 25 yards. I love the heavier pellets. If you take just a drop of sewing machine oil and drop on the backside of the pellet you can double the power of your break-over pellet rifle.
Did anybody else think of those old cowboy action movies when he shot straight into the ground?
I'm getting over 30 fpe. out of my Hatsan 125 chambered in .22, but even standard velocity .22 LR. averages around 120 fpe. That's about 4 times as powerful.
At the muzzle,at 100 yards probably about 10x as powerful because pellet BC is poor compared with 22 bullet.
@@ciro79 Yes in deed. Those skirts and the lighter weight really bring down the velocity quickly with skirted pellets.
You compare the .45 texan vs a .22 LR
You compare .45 texan to a .45 long colt. Or .45 auto. .22 vs .45 dosent make sense. Just proves his point. Have to go way up in airgun caliber to equal performance of smaller gunpowder round. Caliber vs equal caliber air gun lose everytime.
Yes texan is a beast and more powerful than .22lr
For all the people hating on the air-con air rifle it is better for pest control such as pigeons as it does not make as much noise how much them away there is Were your advantage is,
Good video! A comparison between the Gamo Magnum .22 vs a .22 short would be interesting.
shorts have similar speeds and weights as regular 22
@@stevensessoms4059 I've noticed a bit of a difference in my Marlin 881 rifle. It feeds 22 shorts as well as LR. I have to re-zero my scope when I change from shooting the shorts to the LR's. The shorts drop faster, or sooner, than the LR's on longer shots.
If you're looking for something comparable to an airgun, look into the Flobert round. A .22 Flobert would be about the same power as a strong airrifle.
I thought those bullet sounds were old movie sound effects I didn’t know they actually sound like that!
How about making it a fair fight? Diablos come in 40 grain. I shoot 17 grain from my .22 air rifle. Almost double the grain you used. Couldn't you find a lighter pellet?
You are doing a major disservice with the comparisons you do
I very much agree 👍
Ive got a Beeman R-10 I paid $350 in 85'
Been professionally refurbished and still my fave next to my adult red rider.
A pellet gun is no match for a 22 rim fire, even a short rim fire ! Tried this test my self. Airgun much quieter though !
Now do an unbiased test. You only show both angles for .22lr. You shoot heavy lead projectiles in .22lr, why not use a lead pellet to get the carry-thru power and sacrifice the initial MV?
Lost me as soon as you used alloy pellets. So much for that piston seal............
I wish I could buy an air rifle in UK (without FAC) that does that muzzle velocity in .22 , if I was going to go to the trouble of getting a FAC I would just go for the .22 LR
3:00 "Gamo ManGum."
even PCP airgun does not have chanse vs 22lr,even vs 22 short.Velocity does not matter,just velocity.ft ibs energy is matter and mass. ft-ibs =v/m2 .Other thing is B.C of the bullet that is 5 times bigger in 22 lr than pellet,that is aerodinamic of the bullet.Pressure in 22lr barrel is around 1600 bar,even 22 short have around 1000 bar pressure so 22 lr have 1 mile range and better trajectory than any big bore PCP airgun.Powder is powder and compress air does not have chanse vs powder.Also pellet gun does not have chance with pellets,maybe some strong airguns with bullets.
"There's a whole lot more that goes in to power on target than just velocity".
Lol, the things that matter here are speed and mass.
Don't make it sound so complicated.
E = mc2
@@dark30welderwelding11 1 +2=3
This test would be fair if u used heavy slugs in Huben K1 .22 cal
Raptor pellets are gimmick, originally intended solely for the purpose of going supersonic out of the origional nitro pistol or whatever game calls it technology... they lose all accuracy as soon as they slow down enough for the sonic shockwave to catch up... there are plenty of excellent and much higher grain pellets in 22... Raptor is literally the worst test analog possible
Yeah, but accuracy doesn't matter in this test.
A question comes to my mind. What difference would longer barrel make to the air gun. The longer the better. Would it be faster ? Kinetic energy comes mostly from the speed. Velocity squared ...mass has less to say.
Do this review again with a 18 gr pellot.
The velocity will fall, the energy foot pounds will go up slightly... I know from experience that a 1000 fps rated air rifle that will take lighter projectiles up to that advertised velocity, will depreciate to more like ~800 fps with 18 gr hunting pellets. obviously still very effective against small game which is the intended use of 1000 fps guns pushing 18 gr hunting pellets, but the result on the plywood will be the same or less. I say potentially less because of sectional density and the expanding nature of the hunting pellets that are designed to mushroom. It will be slightly more energy foot-pounds but the pellets are designed to expand which will cause an energy dump. If the object is to penetrate a wooden board, you will need the correct velocity and energy foot-pounds coupled with the correct sectional density of the projectile itself, namely something that is pointed and designed to retain its shape. Rven if the 18 gr hunting pellet does penetrate the wooden board, at this point the test medium will be obscuring the real difference -- an 18 gr @ 800 fps is about 25 ft-lbs, a 40 gr (.22 LR) at 1100 fps is 107 ft-lbs. Metric/SI: 1 ft-lbs = 1.35 joules. 1000 fps = 304 m/s
When talking about the grain of a .22 cal bullet or pellet, that's where he needs to test with something like a 16 grain jumbo / beast pellet.
I forget who makes them, but that's the heaviest pellet I've been able to find. An that was actually a .177 pellet for pcp airguns, so they may actually make a 20+ grain .22 cal pellet.
I have some Jun .177 pellets that are around 16 grains. They're pretty slow.
Suggestion: next video figure out the FPE for both, so that you can offer a more fleshed out and informative video. I could have told you the firearm has more power without the video.
Actually you can buy powder assisted pellets and they tore up .22 lr. They are roughly .13 a piece so not cheap to fire but far more powerful out of an air rifle compared to a .22 lr