I just took the plunge (or bath?) into 200 Series ownership. Your content has been my go-to start point for learning about this big beast. This series on fans has been amazing, especially as I have detected a leaking oil patch on the factory one.
Nathan I think your methodical testing is very well done. You've presented your findings in a clear way that will benefit anyone researching whether they should fit the intercooler fans. Thankyou for spending so much time testing and reporting.
Very well done Nathan, as always. No bs and honest. There is a common theme I am seeing with you tubers (who know their stuff). That is ; do not modify your 4x4 from stock unless you UNDERSTAND what you are doing. You have given us understanding here. On another channel (also trusted) they have said that the fans are needed, however their info was gained from a dyno test. This seems fair enough until real world tests like yours are done. It does not indicate that the other channel is not good, but rather just how careful you need to be if you are going to change what Toyota Engineers have researched, tested, and constructed on a vehicle. That said - No manufacturer is infallible.
Thanks mate, I appreciate the feedback. I agree completely. Toyota designed their vehicle to perform in a very particular manner when it left ht factory. Modifying and altering these parameters and going to effect so much more than just one aspect. This being said, some modifications can be useful, but again the modifier needs to understand what parameters they are playing with. I think there is always going to be debate, particular on this topic as to whether they provide a benefit or not, but I think each vehicle should be taken as a case by case basis. The result would be affected by modifications, driving styles, loads, terrain, environment, towing etc. All factors to be considered. Thanks for watching and appreciate the feedback and input. Cheers.
Really like the thoroughness of your assessments Nathan. One area where the fans will make a noticeable difference is with tail winds. High enough tail winds can significantly reduce airflow through top mount intercoolers (and cooling systems) especially when driving slowly under consistent load, like beach driving. If there is a personal belief that you do actually need intercooler fans, then it may also be worth considering a bonnet scoop as well. This will reduce the amount of heat that will be absorbed by the air ducts under the bonnet over the engine. A friends Prado, that also has under bonnet air intakes to a top mount intercooler, saw some gains with an electric fan. Adding a bonnet scoop is what really made the most noticeable difference.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the video. For sure, there are many variables that would effect the results. After all the testing I've done, I'm going to keep it standard for now and maybe looking at an aftermarket cooler sometime in the future. Cheers, Nathan.
Great analysis there. Thanks and nice work. Also of interest is the fact the fans draw A LOT of current, hence alternator loaded up with a resulting power taken from the engine, albeit small. I'm thinking, probably a waste of time generally and not worth the trouble.
This sure is another important point to remember, however saying that my alternator is probably already loaded up quite a bit with all my electrical gear anyway. I don't think this is worth the effort for the result.
Lot of time and effort in there over 3 videos and everyone will agree, thanks for 3 well presented and informative videos. I haven't seen under the intercooler and how much room was on the underside but I would try some basic sheet metal work / plastic welded temporary ducting and use 2 small 100 mm fans back to back and try for a low pressure on the underside while leaving the distribution grid in place on the top. What where those 2 fans pulling amperage wise and just curious, what's the highest you have had the Exhaust gas temp up to ? Cheers Mike.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the series. Yeah, there isn't much room in there and the effort and time to fabricate and fit ducting behind the intercooler probably just isn't worth the effort for the minor results. I think a replacement unit would be the way to go if you were serious about lowering these temps, but to be honest after all this testing I think the standard unit is just fine. The fans pull about 10/11A per fan, so they are a little power hungry. Highest I've got the EGT's is 576 degrees. This was a flat out acceleration from 0 to 'XX' speed. As you could imagine these temps dropped dramatically as soon as I backed off. This wasn't a realistic day to day use of the vehicle, but good to see it didn't get too high... The cruiser averages about 330 on the highway and recently towed a 1.1t trailer averaging around 370 degrees. I think this is good considering the modifications and weight of the vehicle.
@@XploringOz I agree for what you gain against effort and cost not worth it, but its been a great conversation and learning experiment along the way. Our Komatsu dump trucks fully loaded would pull 630 degrees coming up out of the pit, my 5 ton truck sits on 300 cruising flat ground but jumps up to 400 - 450 coming up a hill. When you look at 90% of vehicles the fans are set back from the radiator with shrouding, having the fan hard up against a cooler or radiator can never be as efficient in a static application cos your pulling air through only 50% of the cooler. Centre of the fan does nothing plus the area missed on the fan outer. The Japanese have designed the intake to the cooler very well I think, the problem I see is Accesories impeding / redirecting the air flow through under the bonnet. Having a negative pressure under the cooler would help but for how much and cost / effort. Easier to take that big light bar off and change to a different lighting set up. Like I said, great effort and thanks again.
@@mikethomas9544 It sure has been good to really explore the results and maybe put some of the baseless comments on the forums to rest, although some may still find a way to achieve a benefit. Yeah, there are soo many different options to be considered, I guess it just depends how much time and effort you want to spend into a project. In this case, I reckon Toyota have done a great job with their cooler, despite the modifications added. Thanks for the input and sharing your results. Cheers.
It’s been a few years since I’ve been on that hill, used to drive those trucks up it too. Looking forward to visiting WA later this year if all goes well. Great video as always. Cheers.
Would be cool to see a video on this but the effect of 2 large spot lights on the ball bar. (So no fans) would be great to see if they effect heat cooling of radiator and intercooler.
Could you space the fans up a bit off the core? Would be interesting to see the results if the fans could force air through the entire core and avoid the warm air blowing back up through from underneath. Basically your mounting bracket without the cutouts and spaced up by 1cm say, and sealed round the edge? Like a standard radiator shroud. But completely understand if your done with testing this, excellent videos with a lot of work gone into them.
Yeah, I hear what you are saying and agree that this may potentially work, however there just isn't enough room. The fans are already just barely touching the upper ducting on the bonnet. It's a very tight fit on both top and bottom of the intercooler...
Great testing and info thanks for sharing it! I actually heard a guy say that intercooler fans can be pretty beneficial if they’re big enough and especially if you have large induction hood scoops... otherwise he says you should take the hood (bonnet) off the vehicle. Dunno if he’s right but if you feel like doing more tests🤷🏻♂️
I would be super interested to see if there is a difference on the 79 with the bonnet scope! Although I can’t warrant the price to performance. Love the information! Keep it up!
I've got a 2013 VDJ79R & I think the outer shroud of the thermo fans housings would block 3/4 of the mouth of the scoop intake, later models have the 'power hump" bonnet scoop which is taller & looks bigger.
Yeah mate, check out Jafffa Adventure UA-cam channel. He has done a series on cutting a scoop into the bonnet and commenting on it's effectiveness. Thanks mate.
I can tell you why your results turned out the way they did. Fans mounted directly on any heat exchanger will only benefit you when there is no other air movement & in most cases will actually cause a flow restriction when there is (when you are driving and the static air pressure and flow is increased by vehicle moving). You can apply the same principle to vehicle air conditioning. Your most efficient fan speed on your cabin aircon is never flat out, it's always 1/2 to 2/3 because in order to exchange heat efficiently the air passing through the heat exchanger cannot move too quickly or it loses efficiency because it's not there long enough to absorb the heat energy. We call this "hang time". You can move half the air and get a better result because the air "hangs around" long enough to absorb the heat energy and then remove it. Believe it or not this is the case. If it wasn't engines would have no need for a thermostat in the cooling system. It limits flow for the same reasons - as well as keeping a constant engine coolant temp inside the motor. All good radiators have a shroud - this keeps the static flow from road speed directed into and through the heat exchanger and the fans are usually pulling from the rear side, which applies less static pressure but constant flow and they are mostly mounted back from the radiator by 30-50mm. This is because when they are idle and the air static pressure & flow is from vehicle movement they don't restrict that flow an awful lot. Any time you want to mount a fan, put it in a pull not a push configuration. Unfortunately in this use case there really isn't a lot of room to mount the fans as a pull not push and incorporate a shroud. Front mount and a 30% bigger cooler would do wonders. Just make sure you buy an intercooler that flows air through it well and isn't that big that you are trading lower EGT's for higher coolant temps because you blocked the radiator and AC condensor. It's not a good trade.
I agree and can see the logic and dynamics involved in this system. I guess the options when mounting fans to the stock intercooler, as you have mentioned are very limited. This series was just to independently test the results from this style of fan as these are the kits and methods that are 'supposed' to work according to the forums. I do believe that those who are serious about lowering their temps would benefit greatly from changing the system and replacing the cooler with something bigger. For now, I'm happy with the stock setup and think it has been designed very well. Appreciate the thermodynamic explanation provided and thanks for commenting. Cheers, Nathan.
I have had twin EGT gauges fitted to my 200 for a few years now. My left bank always seems to run a few degrees hotter than the right bank. I even went so far as to swap the thermo couples left and right as I suspected they may not have been equally calibrated. Left side still read a few degrees hotter than the right. I noted the variance in your EGT’s left to right are very similar to mine. Just an FYI and an interesting observation (to me anyway!).
Yeah, I've seen yours in a couple of videos. Neat install there. My gauges are relatively new to the vehicle, but have seen this temperature difference, albeit fairly minor. I've noticed that sometimes the variance swaps from side to side, depending on the type of driving and the speed. I think the biggest difference I've noticed at present is only 15 degrees (for a short period) which shouldn't have any cause for concern. I feel more comfortable now being able to monitor these temperatures on the road now...
The one dislike is probably the guy who sold you those fans 😀. You did your research very well as always and very well explained. Cheers Nathan🤙.. ps nice shirt!
Great video, thank you. If you do the ratios in Kelvin, then you can "see" how much more oxygen you are getting in to the engine and how much more power the engine may make. Assuming the pressures are the same. (Or you could read the MAF)
Hi Nathan I don't think I will bother with those fans on my 200 . If you remember I asked your opinion on fitting a catch can to my vehicle and you said yes . The car is going in on Monday to have the work done plus a air intake clean ,I will tell you what I think later in the year . I've just come home from a couple of days away towing my 2500 kg off road caravan ,in that journey I did go up some steep hills . Travelling at about 95 klh I returned 14.83 litre per hundred klm . I'm happy with that , the big test will be in June July when we head to Birdsville and the channel country . I will I'll give you the results when we return . Take care safe driving Mal
Glad to hear it's going well for you Mal! I still believe the catch can and intake clean will benefit the engine, even if it is just economy and efficiency. That's a great economy considering you are towing a fairly significant load. I would also be happy with that. Definitely let us know how you go, travelling through that area sounds great. I can't wait until I get the opportunity to travel that way. Hopefully we'll see you out there on the road some day!
You will see a lot more benefit by running a shroud to push air accross whole core. Down side is pushing not as good as lifting the cooler and pulling air down with fans in traction.
Thanks mate. Yeah, look no doubt it would help somewhat, but not sure if the application would be suited to a 4WD/tourer like this. The limited source of water would become an issue in remote areas. Further, the design to the VDJ200 engine has a valley in the centre of the engine. Excess water would sit here and could potentially increase the risk of rust.
Hi Nathan. Top quality Video as usual. Great you got some EGT guages to play with. They really are the only way the average joe can see any real benefits to aftermarket modifications. I have a 10 year old VDJ79 and drag around some heavy loads up some steepish hills in Victoria. It has a 3" pipe which sounds nice and Kinda feels like its giving more torque. But that was before I fitted my EGT guage. Also fitted a DP Chip years ago and have been chasing Lower EGT's ever since. Not unusual with my 2.6 Tonne van on to see 550c in 4th on some of the steeper hills around home. So, back to my point. Given the additional HP and Torque available from the 200 and also noting the "other channel" fan testing was on a 79 I was wondering if that may have some bearing. Gotta say, hard 4wd work not towing, but heavy 4wd in our high country does not see high EGT, Only when towing. PS Intercooler cleaned and intake had chemical cleanout and inspection. Catch can in use too.
Yeah, I'm glad I got them fitted. They definitely provide some peace of mind when out on the highway to be able to easily monitor the temps. I should have fitted them earlier. With your temps reaching 550 degrees, have you fitted a transmission lock up kit? Also, what sort of speeds are you driving at for these temps? As you probably saw from this video, I was only doing 80km/h, but I was in 3rd gear. Being in a lower gear definitely assists as is reduces the load on the engine and also increases air flow, allowing the hot air to escape quickly. There could potentially be some bearing between the 79 and the 200 series, but the intercoolers are essentially the same fin design and I think from this testing we could ascertain that the intercooler is very efficient in stock form. How was the intake, was there much residue on there? I'm sure your engine will be thanking you for all that work!
@@XploringOz Hi Nathan. The 79 is a 5 speed manual in the older 79 series. So no lock up. Very little residue in the intakes and approaching 195,000km. My test hill is a motorway hill, so very long and straight. My last test with 1.85t camper recorded 515c in 4th at the top and holding 100kph. There was no run up from the base. Boost was 9.2 . Normally, unloaded, 5th gear, 100kph, chip off, egt at 420c. Hope that makes sense. I was suggesting initially that the massive hp/torque difference b/w the 79 vs 200 would have the 200 not working as hard, therefore the 79 is already under the pump.
@@haitch1980 Sorry, of course. I'm so used to talking about 200 series... I would be happy with 515c, that seems to be a good value. Not too hot, but what you would expect when the vehicle is under continuous load for some time. It would be interesting to compare the two models, although your thinking the 200 might not work as hard, being a twin turbo the boost pressure is general a little higher. For example in the same circumstances, 4th gear, 100km/h my boost would probably be sitting around 15 degrees. From what I understand of heating the air, its the compression itself that creates quite a bit of heat... therefore maybe the 200 series might be a little hotter? This is not fact, just merely another view point... maybe someone out there could enlighten us... Cheers.
@@XploringOz Nathan. Thanks for the reply. AFAIK. Most egts are measured after the turbo, and are not indicative of actual combustion temps. which may be 200c higher at least. The cool air charge coming in is what prevents pistons melting. So I'm told. Therefore, it figures if we want more power, by any means, the egt's will go up, unless we can better cool the incoming air. Of course if you already own a 200 series or have enough loot for bigger intercooler etc you end up chasing in circles. Thanks for listening. It bugs me if I don't know why stuff works. Cheers.
@@haitch1980 For sure, EGT's are only an indication of how the engine is reacting to input. The combustion temperature and turbo temperature is much much higher. The general rule of 600 degrees max (short term) EGT is allowing for that safe, but much higher level within the engine. Every vehicle will differ somewhat and once the driver has figured out the normal, it will be easy to be able to understand when to back off and reduce the temps. Appreciate the time, it's refreshing to talk with someone who offers reason and provoking conversation rather than criticism. Cheers, Nathan.
Hi Nathan I know this is only your opinion, but I do agree with you. Do you think the cross country intercooler with a top mounted bonnet scoop and puller fans would be a better option to keep everything further down. I’m leaning that way since there fans are located under a 75mm core and intercooler raised to just below the bonnet, giving a little clearance Thanks for all your videos. You’ve taught me heaps and actually installed the same EGT’s in my 200
Hey mate, personally I think something like the CC intercooler would very likely have a advantage on a setup like this. The larger core and puller fans with better access to cooler air is highly likely to decrease those temperatures, but as you mentioned this in only opinion at this time and something I have personally had experience with or tested as yet. Thanks mate, I appreciated the encouragement and glad to have been able to help a little 👍 Cheers
@@XploringOz hey mate Thanks for getting back to me. I’ve been thinking of the Cross Country setup for a while. I end up speaking to one of their dyno guys and says he stands by them as they do work or he wouldn’t recommend the intercooler. So the fans on that setup are puller fans and 68 mm core He believes that the standard intercooler will generally heat soak after 2-3 times , but the cross country can handle more boost and big injectors and still take 6-7 goes on the dyno to start to hear soak . Sounds like a good option to me. Might have to do a review on mine when I get it. There is nothing available on you tube or internet about this cooler. I have been messaging some people in regards to this on the 200 series and people that have them . Believe there great
@@trevorhoareau7203 Hey mate, this isn't something I figured out just yet. No sure if it's possible, hence why I've been using the TechStream software 👍
I got excited there when I seen something hanging off the back of your 200 Nath! Lol! So......if you are touring Australia (with a van) then fitting fans would be advisable (personal preference). For me, not worth the $$$ so thanks for swaying me against them mate. Cheers
Haha, I'm not enjoying this wait either... Possibly, hopefully these series of videos have given people a good idea about the pro's and con's of these fans in varying scenarios. Glad you were able to get some info from it and it's help you make a decision. Cheers.
Hi Nathan, excellent presented for sure and will give many a head scratch ! That subject is far from over my bet. And there are so many other parameters to take care for. You have a PDF version, so what EGT must that have to be most efficient. I am to long out of that business and definitely there are engine gurus around with a wealth of information and experience. For my understanding running with 330 degree you are on the cold site and if this is contra productive I don’t know. Where is the EGT sweat spot? Meaning average.... then you look at the theoretical engine load displayed. What does it shows?. Normally the 200series runs for 3-5 sec on 100% then it will downshifts the gear to lower the load. How the lock up kit overwrites that I had no chance to check since no such hill was available where I run the first test. Anyhow, thanks for your nicely done vid on the fan subject.. makes my putting the 600 bucks out for an aftermarket new and better Airbox first. Cheers and keep the sunny side up..
I agree, I'm sure many people still have questions about different parameters and options with these fans, but to be honest I do believe that they are more work and to expensive to muck around with. Much better off just upgrading the whole unit if you are really series about lowering intake temps. This is something I'm currently looking into. I know there is a misconception regarding RPM and fuel/efficiency levels and this is something I want to explore. I am trying to find the ideal and most efficient RPM range and vehicle load for varying conditions. All in time... Thanks again, Nathan.
Great content! Have you noticed any performance or temperature impacts relating to the installation of spotlights in front of grill? I.e. any impact to airflow etc
Thanks mate. Glad you enjoyed it. So no, I haven't noticed any real world changes as a result of the bullbar and spotlights etc. No doubt there is some turbulence in the air from these accessories, however it wouldn't enough for me to change anything. Cheers, Nathan.
The wait is a killer, but it's going to be worth it once we get it. Should be perfect for our needs out on the road. Looking forward to releasing the details hopefully at the end on the year.
Hey Mate, Have been watching your channel for a little while now but this is the first comment. Have you considered a tuning chip and if so what are the benefits in your view over a remap?
Hey mate, thanks for watching. I hope you are enjoying the content. So yes, I have considered these options and I have actually completed a remap on my vehicle. This is something I will do a video on in the future. There are similar pro's and con's to both options and it will heavily depend on what tuning you are expecting from the vehicle and who/brand of tune you decide to go with. Cheers, Nathan.
Can you put something like door vents underneath the intercooler to direct the post intercooler air somewhere else to prevent it going back to intercooler fin.
Potentially, however I don't think it would be worth the effort mucking around with fabrication and ducting as I don't think the improvement would be that great....
Yeah look, it might be more efficient, however water is a finite and sometimes scarce resource that would require ongoing attention to fill etc. I have previous set a water sprayer up on a proviso 4WD, however it didn't give enormous results. I didn't find it was worth the effort, but this is just my opinion. Cheers, Nathan.
Fans work way better when they are under the Intercooler and draw air through. They also should only come on when temps get to a certain temp. Pointless having fans on all the time when you've driving at highway speeds, as you have plenty of air. Fans only need to come on when air volume decreases and temps rise.
I agree, puller fans are much more efficient, however they just simply don't fit on the stock setup of the cruiser. Theres no way this is possible without changing out the whole cooler and this is significantly more expensive. I wired them on all the time, given that they were mounted on top as they would significantly impede on high speed air if they were off in this position. Saying this, after all this testing I would recommend fans unless the vehicle is being used for a very specific purpose where they may benefit. Cheers, Nathan.
Why am I not surprised that they are as useful as an electric supercharger lol. The only real upgrades that can be done for temps is the intercooler (but I tend to find Toyota, like their throttle bodies, oversizes the intercoolers) or the turbo or turbos (can't remember if its a twin-turbo on the 200 series, I don't have one lol). But even then Toyota doesn't put on rubbish turbos.
For sure, definitely haven't provided me with any benefits... Yes, there are some great aftermarket intercoolers available that may assist with temps, but I don't think there is a great return on investment...
Haha, not yet mate. Building the suspense until I get delivery. Don't worry there will be plenty of detail and video reviews on it when it arrives... I'm just as frustrated with the wait time as you are
Perth is home and looking for a 4x4 shop that can do GVM upgrade, all electrics for towing, ++ for my LC 200. Can you recommend sum shops please...Thanks Derik
Hey mate, I've been around to a few shops to get the work done on my vehicle, but can't recommend Ultimate 4WD Equipment enough for their electrical work. They really have great systems that have proven to be reliable over my last three vehicles builds. This being said, I'm not sure what their stance or options are for GVM kits, however I've been relatively happy with the ARB GVM upgrade so far, albeit some issues. I hope that can give you somewhere to start. Cheers, Nathan.
I reckon so. When starting this series I thought that these fans would definitely work, especially after reading the forums. I was surprised and glad I tested them in detail as now I know they are definitely a gimmick and have very few benefits, if not detriments to the vehicle...
The quality of you videos are insane. The attention to detail and the delivery is unreal. Thank you so much.
Thanks mate, I appreciate these comments. I'm glad to hear that viewers are enjoying the content.
Cheers, Nathan.
You just save me wasting a lot of money time and Hassall fantastic video as always extremely educational and factual
Good to hear! They don't seem to provide the benefits many companies claim...
I just took the plunge (or bath?) into 200 Series ownership. Your content has been my go-to start point for learning about this big beast.
This series on fans has been amazing, especially as I have detected a leaking oil patch on the factory one.
Nathan I think your methodical testing is very well done. You've presented your findings in a clear way that will benefit anyone researching whether they should fit the intercooler fans. Thankyou for spending so much time testing and reporting.
Thanks mate, glad you have enjoyed the series and helpfully others will be able to get value from it in the future.
Cheers.
Above and beyond yet again Nathan. Most interesting as always.
Thanks Ian, appreciate it.
Very well done Nathan, as always. No bs and honest. There is a common theme I am seeing with you tubers (who know their stuff). That is ; do not modify your 4x4 from stock unless you UNDERSTAND what you are doing. You have given us understanding here. On another channel (also trusted) they have said that the fans are needed, however their info was gained from a dyno test. This seems fair enough until real world tests like yours are done. It does not indicate that the other channel is not good, but rather just how careful you need to be if you are going to change what Toyota Engineers have researched, tested, and constructed on a vehicle. That said - No manufacturer is infallible.
Thanks mate, I appreciate the feedback.
I agree completely. Toyota designed their vehicle to perform in a very particular manner when it left ht factory. Modifying and altering these parameters and going to effect so much more than just one aspect. This being said, some modifications can be useful, but again the modifier needs to understand what parameters they are playing with.
I think there is always going to be debate, particular on this topic as to whether they provide a benefit or not, but I think each vehicle should be taken as a case by case basis. The result would be affected by modifications, driving styles, loads, terrain, environment, towing etc. All factors to be considered.
Thanks for watching and appreciate the feedback and input.
Cheers.
Really like the thoroughness of your assessments Nathan.
One area where the fans will make a noticeable difference is with tail winds. High enough tail winds can significantly reduce airflow through top mount intercoolers (and cooling systems) especially when driving slowly under consistent load, like beach driving. If there is a personal belief that you do actually need intercooler fans, then it may also be worth considering a bonnet scoop as well. This will reduce the amount of heat that will be absorbed by the air ducts under the bonnet over the engine. A friends Prado, that also has under bonnet air intakes to a top mount intercooler, saw some gains with an electric fan. Adding a bonnet scoop is what really made the most noticeable difference.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the video.
For sure, there are many variables that would effect the results. After all the testing I've done, I'm going to keep it standard for now and maybe looking at an aftermarket cooler sometime in the future.
Cheers, Nathan.
Great analysis there. Thanks and nice work. Also of interest is the fact the fans draw A LOT of current, hence alternator loaded up with a resulting power taken from the engine, albeit small.
I'm thinking, probably a waste of time generally and not worth the trouble.
Davies Craig shows a 14 inch slimline pulling 11 amps X 2 is a fair wack in my book.
This sure is another important point to remember, however saying that my alternator is probably already loaded up quite a bit with all my electrical gear anyway.
I don't think this is worth the effort for the result.
Lot of time and effort in there over 3 videos and everyone will agree, thanks for 3 well presented and informative videos. I haven't seen under the intercooler and how much room was on the underside but I would try some basic sheet metal work / plastic welded temporary ducting and use 2 small 100 mm fans back to back and try for a low pressure on the underside while leaving the distribution grid in place on the top. What where those 2 fans pulling amperage wise and just curious, what's the highest you have had the Exhaust gas temp up to ? Cheers Mike.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the series.
Yeah, there isn't much room in there and the effort and time to fabricate and fit ducting behind the intercooler probably just isn't worth the effort for the minor results. I think a replacement unit would be the way to go if you were serious about lowering these temps, but to be honest after all this testing I think the standard unit is just fine.
The fans pull about 10/11A per fan, so they are a little power hungry.
Highest I've got the EGT's is 576 degrees. This was a flat out acceleration from 0 to 'XX' speed. As you could imagine these temps dropped dramatically as soon as I backed off. This wasn't a realistic day to day use of the vehicle, but good to see it didn't get too high...
The cruiser averages about 330 on the highway and recently towed a 1.1t trailer averaging around 370 degrees. I think this is good considering the modifications and weight of the vehicle.
@@XploringOz I agree for what you gain against effort and cost not worth it, but its been a great conversation and learning experiment along the way. Our Komatsu dump trucks fully loaded would pull 630 degrees coming up out of the pit, my 5 ton truck sits on 300 cruising flat ground but jumps up to 400 - 450 coming up a hill. When you look at 90% of vehicles the fans are set back from the radiator with shrouding, having the fan hard up against a cooler or radiator can never be as efficient in a static application cos your pulling air through only 50% of the cooler. Centre of the fan does nothing plus the area missed on the fan outer. The Japanese have designed the intake to the cooler very well I think, the problem I see is Accesories impeding / redirecting the air flow through under the bonnet. Having a negative pressure under the cooler would help but for how much and cost / effort. Easier to take that big light bar off and change to a different lighting set up. Like I said, great effort and thanks again.
@@mikethomas9544 It sure has been good to really explore the results and maybe put some of the baseless comments on the forums to rest, although some may still find a way to achieve a benefit.
Yeah, there are soo many different options to be considered, I guess it just depends how much time and effort you want to spend into a project. In this case, I reckon Toyota have done a great job with their cooler, despite the modifications added.
Thanks for the input and sharing your results.
Cheers.
It’s been a few years since I’ve been on that hill, used to drive those trucks up it too.
Looking forward to visiting WA later this year if all goes well.
Great video as always. Cheers.
I hope your able to visit as planned, its a great place!
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the video.
Cheers, Nathan.
Would be cool to see a video on this but the effect of 2 large spot lights on the ball bar. (So no fans) would be great to see if they effect heat cooling of radiator and intercooler.
Yes mate, I might try and get another test done down the track. Cheers 👍
Could you space the fans up a bit off the core? Would be interesting to see the results if the fans could force air through the entire core and avoid the warm air blowing back up through from underneath. Basically your mounting bracket without the cutouts and spaced up by 1cm say, and sealed round the edge? Like a standard radiator shroud.
But completely understand if your done with testing this, excellent videos with a lot of work gone into them.
Yeah, I hear what you are saying and agree that this may potentially work, however there just isn't enough room. The fans are already just barely touching the upper ducting on the bonnet. It's a very tight fit on both top and bottom of the intercooler...
Great testing and info thanks for sharing it! I actually heard a guy say that intercooler fans can be pretty beneficial if they’re big enough and especially if you have large induction hood scoops... otherwise he says you should take the hood (bonnet) off the vehicle. Dunno if he’s right but if you feel like doing more tests🤷🏻♂️
Thanks mate, glad you appreciated the video. Haha, maybe I need to do some more testing... bonnetless...
I would be super interested to see if there is a difference on the 79 with the bonnet scope!
Although I can’t warrant the price to performance.
Love the information! Keep it up!
I've got a 2013 VDJ79R & I think the outer shroud of the thermo fans housings would block 3/4 of the mouth of the scoop intake, later models have the 'power hump" bonnet scoop which is taller & looks bigger.
Yeah mate, check out Jafffa Adventure UA-cam channel. He has done a series on cutting a scoop into the bonnet and commenting on it's effectiveness.
Thanks mate.
@@XploringOz at 2500 to 3000 in cost a actual intercooler upgrade would be better
@@ausguy4385 Yeah, I also agree with that. Your definitely paying for the looks of the scoop (which does look awesome!)
I can tell you why your results turned out the way they did. Fans mounted directly on any heat exchanger will only benefit you when there is no other air movement & in most cases will actually cause a flow restriction when there is (when you are driving and the static air pressure and flow is increased by vehicle moving). You can apply the same principle to vehicle air conditioning. Your most efficient fan speed on your cabin aircon is never flat out, it's always 1/2 to 2/3 because in order to exchange heat efficiently the air passing through the heat exchanger cannot move too quickly or it loses efficiency because it's not there long enough to absorb the heat energy. We call this "hang time". You can move half the air and get a better result because the air "hangs around" long enough to absorb the heat energy and then remove it. Believe it or not this is the case. If it wasn't engines would have no need for a thermostat in the cooling system. It limits flow for the same reasons - as well as keeping a constant engine coolant temp inside the motor.
All good radiators have a shroud - this keeps the static flow from road speed directed into and through the heat exchanger and the fans are usually pulling from the rear side, which applies less static pressure but constant flow and they are mostly mounted back from the radiator by 30-50mm. This is because when they are idle and the air static pressure & flow is from vehicle movement they don't restrict that flow an awful lot. Any time you want to mount a fan, put it in a pull not a push configuration.
Unfortunately in this use case there really isn't a lot of room to mount the fans as a pull not push and incorporate a shroud. Front mount and a 30% bigger cooler would do wonders. Just make sure you buy an intercooler that flows air through it well and isn't that big that you are trading lower EGT's for higher coolant temps because you blocked the radiator and AC condensor. It's not a good trade.
I agree and can see the logic and dynamics involved in this system. I guess the options when mounting fans to the stock intercooler, as you have mentioned are very limited. This series was just to independently test the results from this style of fan as these are the kits and methods that are 'supposed' to work according to the forums.
I do believe that those who are serious about lowering their temps would benefit greatly from changing the system and replacing the cooler with something bigger.
For now, I'm happy with the stock setup and think it has been designed very well.
Appreciate the thermodynamic explanation provided and thanks for commenting.
Cheers, Nathan.
I have had twin EGT gauges fitted to my 200 for a few years now. My left bank always seems to run a few degrees hotter than the right bank. I even went so far as to swap the thermo couples left and right as I suspected they may not have been equally calibrated. Left side still read a few degrees hotter than the right. I noted the variance in your EGT’s left to right are very similar to mine. Just an FYI and an interesting observation (to me anyway!).
Yeah, I've seen yours in a couple of videos. Neat install there.
My gauges are relatively new to the vehicle, but have seen this temperature difference, albeit fairly minor. I've noticed that sometimes the variance swaps from side to side, depending on the type of driving and the speed. I think the biggest difference I've noticed at present is only 15 degrees (for a short period) which shouldn't have any cause for concern.
I feel more comfortable now being able to monitor these temperatures on the road now...
@@XploringOz 100% mate, I use mine ALL the time, especially under heavy load. Keep up the good work😎👍
@@JafffaAdventures They sure are super useful. Up there with the most important gauges.
Thanks mate.
The one dislike is probably the guy who sold you those fans 😀. You did your research very well as always and very well explained. Cheers Nathan🤙.. ps nice shirt!
Haha, there's always a few....
Thanks mate, I'll be sure to get some sent your way. Cheers.
Thanks again Nathan for the excellent review.👍
Thanks mate, appreciate that and glad you enjoyed it.
Great video, thank you.
If you do the ratios in Kelvin, then you can "see" how much more oxygen you are getting in to the engine and how much more power the engine may make. Assuming the pressures are the same.
(Or you could read the MAF)
Cheers mate, thanks for the suggestion, I’ll keep it in mind for future testing 👍
Hi Nathan I don't think I will bother with those fans on my 200 . If you remember I asked your opinion on fitting a catch can to my vehicle and you said yes . The car is going in on Monday to have the work done plus a air intake clean ,I will tell you what I think later in the year . I've just come home from a couple of days away towing my 2500 kg off road caravan ,in that journey I did go up some steep hills . Travelling at about 95 klh I returned 14.83 litre per hundred klm . I'm happy with that , the big test will be in June July when we head to Birdsville and the channel country . I will I'll give you the results when we return . Take care safe driving Mal
Glad to hear it's going well for you Mal! I still believe the catch can and intake clean will benefit the engine, even if it is just economy and efficiency.
That's a great economy considering you are towing a fairly significant load. I would also be happy with that.
Definitely let us know how you go, travelling through that area sounds great. I can't wait until I get the opportunity to travel that way.
Hopefully we'll see you out there on the road some day!
You will see a lot more benefit by running a shroud to push air accross whole core. Down side is pushing not as good as lifting the cooler and pulling air down with fans in traction.
For sure, puller fans would be much more effective, however unfortunately just not an option with the standard intercooler.
Cheers, Nathan.
brilliant video
Very good test, you should contact PWR and see if they will loan you one of there kits to test they claim it helps a lot in that peak load zone
Thanks mate. Yeah, I could however I don't think they'll want to send me one if they watch their series...
Great video mate.
I’d like to see what spraying water on the intercooler does. Could be jerry rigged pretty easy of the window washer.
Thanks mate. Yeah, look no doubt it would help somewhat, but not sure if the application would be suited to a 4WD/tourer like this. The limited source of water would become an issue in remote areas. Further, the design to the VDJ200 engine has a valley in the centre of the engine. Excess water would sit here and could potentially increase the risk of rust.
Great detail as always. Awesome
in his part 1 he said there is no room underneath
@@jacksondudes Air has to come out somewhere under there
Thanks mate.
Hi Nathan. Top quality Video as usual. Great you got some EGT guages to play with. They really are the only way the average joe can see any real benefits to aftermarket modifications. I have a 10 year old VDJ79 and drag around some heavy loads up some steepish hills in Victoria. It has a 3" pipe which sounds nice and Kinda feels like its giving more torque. But that was before I fitted my EGT guage. Also fitted a DP Chip years ago and have been chasing Lower EGT's ever since. Not unusual with my 2.6 Tonne van on to see 550c in 4th on some of the steeper hills around home. So, back to my point. Given the additional HP and Torque available from the 200 and also noting the "other channel" fan testing was on a 79 I was wondering if that may have some bearing. Gotta say, hard 4wd work not towing, but heavy 4wd in our high country does not see high EGT, Only when towing. PS Intercooler cleaned and intake had chemical cleanout and inspection. Catch can in use too.
Yeah, I'm glad I got them fitted. They definitely provide some peace of mind when out on the highway to be able to easily monitor the temps. I should have fitted them earlier.
With your temps reaching 550 degrees, have you fitted a transmission lock up kit? Also, what sort of speeds are you driving at for these temps?
As you probably saw from this video, I was only doing 80km/h, but I was in 3rd gear. Being in a lower gear definitely assists as is reduces the load on the engine and also increases air flow, allowing the hot air to escape quickly.
There could potentially be some bearing between the 79 and the 200 series, but the intercoolers are essentially the same fin design and I think from this testing we could ascertain that the intercooler is very efficient in stock form.
How was the intake, was there much residue on there? I'm sure your engine will be thanking you for all that work!
@@XploringOz Hi Nathan. The 79 is a 5 speed manual in the older 79 series. So no lock up. Very little residue in the intakes and approaching 195,000km. My test hill is a motorway hill, so very long and straight. My last test with 1.85t camper recorded 515c in 4th at the top and holding 100kph. There was no run up from the base. Boost was 9.2 . Normally, unloaded, 5th gear, 100kph, chip off, egt at 420c. Hope that makes sense. I was suggesting initially that the massive hp/torque difference b/w the 79 vs 200 would have the 200 not working as hard, therefore the 79 is already under the pump.
@@haitch1980 Sorry, of course. I'm so used to talking about 200 series...
I would be happy with 515c, that seems to be a good value. Not too hot, but what you would expect when the vehicle is under continuous load for some time.
It would be interesting to compare the two models, although your thinking the 200 might not work as hard, being a twin turbo the boost pressure is general a little higher. For example in the same circumstances, 4th gear, 100km/h my boost would probably be sitting around 15 degrees. From what I understand of heating the air, its the compression itself that creates quite a bit of heat... therefore maybe the 200 series might be a little hotter? This is not fact, just merely another view point... maybe someone out there could enlighten us...
Cheers.
@@XploringOz Nathan. Thanks for the reply. AFAIK. Most egts are measured after the turbo, and are not indicative of actual combustion temps. which may be 200c higher at least. The cool air charge coming in is what prevents pistons melting. So I'm told. Therefore, it figures if we want more power, by any means, the egt's will go up, unless we can better cool the incoming air. Of course if you already own a 200 series or have enough loot for bigger intercooler etc you end up chasing in circles. Thanks for listening. It bugs me if I don't know why stuff works. Cheers.
@@haitch1980 For sure, EGT's are only an indication of how the engine is reacting to input. The combustion temperature and turbo temperature is much much higher. The general rule of 600 degrees max (short term) EGT is allowing for that safe, but much higher level within the engine.
Every vehicle will differ somewhat and once the driver has figured out the normal, it will be easy to be able to understand when to back off and reduce the temps.
Appreciate the time, it's refreshing to talk with someone who offers reason and provoking conversation rather than criticism.
Cheers, Nathan.
Hi Nathan
I know this is only your opinion, but I do agree with you. Do you think the cross country intercooler with a top mounted bonnet scoop and puller fans would be a better option to keep everything further down. I’m leaning that way since there fans are located under a 75mm core and intercooler raised to just below the bonnet, giving a little clearance
Thanks for all your videos. You’ve taught me heaps and actually installed the same EGT’s in my 200
Hey mate, personally I think something like the CC intercooler would very likely have a advantage on a setup like this. The larger core and puller fans with better access to cooler air is highly likely to decrease those temperatures, but as you mentioned this in only opinion at this time and something I have personally had experience with or tested as yet.
Thanks mate, I appreciated the encouragement and glad to have been able to help a little 👍
Cheers
@@XploringOz hey mate
Thanks for getting back to me.
I’ve been thinking of the Cross Country setup for a while. I end up speaking to one of their dyno guys and says he stands by them as they do work or he wouldn’t recommend the intercooler. So the fans on that setup are puller fans and 68 mm core
He believes that the standard intercooler will generally heat soak after 2-3 times , but the cross country can handle more boost and big injectors and still take 6-7 goes on the dyno to start to hear soak .
Sounds like a good option to me.
Might have to do a review on mine when I get it. There is nothing available on you tube or internet about this cooler. I have been messaging some people in regards to this on the 200 series and people that have them . Believe there great
@@XploringOz also just a little quick one. Do you know how to see charged air temperature on the ultraguage. Be awesome to know
@@trevorhoareau7203 Hey mate, this isn't something I figured out just yet. No sure if it's possible, hence why I've been using the TechStream software 👍
I got excited there when I seen something hanging off the back of your 200 Nath! Lol! So......if you are touring Australia (with a van) then fitting fans would be advisable (personal preference). For me, not worth the $$$ so thanks for swaying me against them mate. Cheers
Haha, I'm not enjoying this wait either...
Possibly, hopefully these series of videos have given people a good idea about the pro's and con's of these fans in varying scenarios.
Glad you were able to get some info from it and it's help you make a decision.
Cheers.
I fitted an HPD intercooler. Massive boost to towing power and well matched to my Richards TC lockup and engine remap.
For sure, another great option. Theres no doubt this will have the biggest effect.
Hi Nathan, excellent presented for sure and will give many a head scratch !
That subject is far from over my bet.
And there are so many other parameters to take care for. You have a PDF version, so what EGT must that have to be most efficient. I am to long out of that business and definitely there are engine gurus around with a wealth of information and experience. For my understanding running with 330 degree you are on the cold site and if this is contra productive I don’t know. Where is the EGT sweat spot? Meaning average.... then you look at the theoretical engine load displayed. What does it shows?. Normally the 200series runs for 3-5 sec on 100% then it will downshifts the gear to lower the load.
How the lock up kit overwrites that I had no chance to check since no such hill was available where I run the first test.
Anyhow, thanks for your nicely done vid on the fan subject.. makes my putting the 600 bucks out for an aftermarket new and better Airbox first. Cheers and keep the sunny side up..
Before you spend big bucks on a new airbox try the Terrain Tamer stainless steel airbox seal upgrade kit for $100, they actually work.
I agree, I'm sure many people still have questions about different parameters and options with these fans, but to be honest I do believe that they are more work and to expensive to muck around with. Much better off just upgrading the whole unit if you are really series about lowering intake temps.
This is something I'm currently looking into. I know there is a misconception regarding RPM and fuel/efficiency levels and this is something I want to explore. I am trying to find the ideal and most efficient RPM range and vehicle load for varying conditions. All in time...
Thanks again, Nathan.
Great content! Have you noticed any performance or temperature impacts relating to the installation of spotlights in front of grill? I.e. any impact to airflow etc
Thanks mate. Glad you enjoyed it. So no, I haven't noticed any real world changes as a result of the bullbar and spotlights etc. No doubt there is some turbulence in the air from these accessories, however it wouldn't enough for me to change anything.
Cheers, Nathan.
You ordered another van? Can't wait to see what your getting!
The wait is a killer, but it's going to be worth it once we get it. Should be perfect for our needs out on the road. Looking forward to releasing the details hopefully at the end on the year.
Awesome mate 👍
Cheers mate.
Hey Mate, Have been watching your channel for a little while now but this is the first comment. Have you considered a tuning chip and if so what are the benefits in your view over a remap?
Hey mate, thanks for watching. I hope you are enjoying the content.
So yes, I have considered these options and I have actually completed a remap on my vehicle. This is something I will do a video on in the future.
There are similar pro's and con's to both options and it will heavily depend on what tuning you are expecting from the vehicle and who/brand of tune you decide to go with.
Cheers, Nathan.
May I ask what the weather temperature was?
Hey mate, unfortunately this was quite some time ago and I would be guessing if providing you an answer. My apologies.
Can you put something like door vents underneath the intercooler to direct the post intercooler air somewhere else to prevent it going back to intercooler fin.
Potentially, however I don't think it would be worth the effort mucking around with fabrication and ducting as I don't think the improvement would be that great....
Maybe a simply intercooler spray kit might be better? Switched maybe?
Yeah look, it might be more efficient, however water is a finite and sometimes scarce resource that would require ongoing attention to fill etc.
I have previous set a water sprayer up on a proviso 4WD, however it didn't give enormous results. I didn't find it was worth the effort, but this is just my opinion.
Cheers, Nathan.
Fans work way better when they are under the Intercooler and draw air through.
They also should only come on when temps get to a certain temp.
Pointless having fans on all the time when you've driving at highway speeds, as you have plenty of air.
Fans only need to come on when air volume decreases and temps rise.
I agree, puller fans are much more efficient, however they just simply don't fit on the stock setup of the cruiser. Theres no way this is possible without changing out the whole cooler and this is significantly more expensive.
I wired them on all the time, given that they were mounted on top as they would significantly impede on high speed air if they were off in this position.
Saying this, after all this testing I would recommend fans unless the vehicle is being used for a very specific purpose where they may benefit.
Cheers, Nathan.
After your reference to WRX I was totally expecting to see a micro spray irrigation test, totally disappointed 😞
Why am I not surprised that they are as useful as an electric supercharger lol.
The only real upgrades that can be done for temps is the intercooler (but I tend to find Toyota, like their throttle bodies, oversizes the intercoolers) or the turbo or turbos (can't remember if its a twin-turbo on the 200 series, I don't have one lol). But even then Toyota doesn't put on rubbish turbos.
For sure, definitely haven't provided me with any benefits...
Yes, there are some great aftermarket intercoolers available that may assist with temps, but I don't think there is a great return on investment...
Hi Nathan, you going to tell us what van you have ordered??????
Haha, not yet mate. Building the suspense until I get delivery.
Don't worry there will be plenty of detail and video reviews on it when it arrives...
I'm just as frustrated with the wait time as you are
Perth is home and looking for a 4x4 shop that can do GVM upgrade, all electrics for towing, ++ for my LC 200. Can you recommend sum shops please...Thanks Derik
Hey mate, I've been around to a few shops to get the work done on my vehicle, but can't recommend Ultimate 4WD Equipment enough for their electrical work. They really have great systems that have proven to be reliable over my last three vehicles builds.
This being said, I'm not sure what their stance or options are for GVM kits, however I've been relatively happy with the ARB GVM upgrade so far, albeit some issues.
I hope that can give you somewhere to start.
Cheers, Nathan.
@@XploringOz Thanks Nathan - much appreciated
Thermo fan mounted under the intercooler and pull air through will be alot better, doesnt block the air entry to the fin at high speed ?
No spare room underneath the intercooler to mount fans.
Thats why you need to duct it and have the fan in the circular ducting 18 inches away from the cooler.
@@mikethomas9544 Why bother? It works fine as it is.
I'd have to agree with Dusty Farmer here, I think the work and effort to fabricate ducting wouldn't be worth the minor benefit.
Sounds like a bigger intercooler rather than fans
For sure, I agree with this. These fans just aren't worth the hassle...
Better off saving the money to get exhaust or actual intercooler upgrade.
I reckon so. When starting this series I thought that these fans would definitely work, especially after reading the forums. I was surprised and glad I tested them in detail as now I know they are definitely a gimmick and have very few benefits, if not detriments to the vehicle...